Requests for comment/Do something about azwiki

This is a subpage; for more information, see the Requests for comments page.

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There are currently four active Meta RFCs about the Azerbaijani Wikipedia: Requests for comment/Copyright violations and no reason block by sysop on Azwiki, Requests for comment/Sysop abuse in Azerbaijani Wikipedia, Requests for comment/Racism at Azerbaijani Wikipedia, and Requests for comment/Long term block for Whatsapp message on azwiki.

These reveal flaws with the current azwiki administration:

• They allow copyvios to run amok.
• They block people for no reason, vague reasons, or due to activity on non-Wikimedia websites.
• They engage in POV-pushing, most prominently Armenian Genocide denial.

I think the best solution would be to office-actions prune (wikipedia:en:template:Pp-reset) azwiki and DB-lock it for at least 6 months.

Lojbanist (talk) 01:12, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

You can propose the closure of a language edition of a wiki on Proposals for closing projects and, once the 6-month grace period is expired, propose its reopening on Requests for new languages. --Agusbou2015 (talk) 01:58, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

•  Support. I strongly believe that no matter what flaws a wiki has, if there are enough speakers of the language and the potential for it to be a useful resource is there, it shouldn't be shut down. That said, I've just looked at the following RfCs:
  1. Requests for comment/Copyright violations and no reason block by sysop on Azwiki
  2. Requests for comment/Racism at Azerbaijani Wikipedia
  3. Requests for comment/Long term block for Whatsapp message on azwiki
  4. Requests for comment/Sysop abuse in Azerbaijani Wikipedia

and surveyed a few pages at azwiki. Of twenty random pages that I tested using Special:Random, five were unambiguous copyright violations according to Earwig's tool. I would tag them for deletion but I don't know the copyvio-specific delete template for azwiki. The accusations of POV-pushing on the Armenian Genocide certainly require investigation. Albeit using a translation tool, there are clearly flagrant violations of the maintenance of a neutral point of view which seem to go unchecked. I'm not going to comment on the blocks placed by admins because I have no desire to get in the middle of a user squabble. But yes, something needs to be done, so office actions are my suggestion. SITH (talk) 17:01, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

• You don't need to know the copy-vio-template of a particular wiki. {{delete|Your rationale over here}} works almost always. For an example, see my tagging of an az.wiki article over this edit, created by the sysop, who is the subject of the other Copyvio-RFC. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 04:52, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

• Winged Blades of Godric thanks for the heads up, I subsequently realised that through SWMT. However, if there are so few sysops and the ones which are active are violating copyright, surely the only recourse is to invite office actions? SITH (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

• @StraussInTheHouse:--Office won't close the wiki; unless things go way way south than it's currently. We have 2 lac, 36 thousand and 497 wikis is quite a sexy thing to say whilst asking donors for even more money, 496 hampers the spirits:-) On a serious note, I won't like the Office to decide on content-issues and unless we can prove that a lot much of content over az.wiki is copyrighted (which ain't likely), Office won't bother. I am making my own note(s) and hope to get one/two user de-sysoped and/or blocked. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 12:19, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

• Without comment as to the merits of the RFC (because I have not examined the allegations): in the past stewards have removed all the sysops from a wiki, see Requests for comment/Userrights on Hindi Wikipedia and Requests for comment/Massive sysop abuse in Chechen Wikipedia, and Stewards' noticeboard/Archives/2015-05. This is within the remit of stewards as long as there is a discussion here on Meta that is properly advertised and has the right levels of support. --Rschen7754 18:17, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
• I agree with the above comment by StraussInTheHouse in entirety. De-sysop all and enable Global Sysops; also, don't grant permanent adminship to any user.

• I did a quick check of random articles in a similar fashion and almost 15-20% were blatant copy-right violations; all of which were created by Cekli829, a active sysop. I accordingly tagged three of them, for speedy deletion, citing COPYVIO as a rationale and adding the Earwig-copyvio-detection link in the edit summaries. After about 2 days, Araz Yaquboglu removed all the 3 deletion templates, without leaving any edit summary. I asked him over his t/p; as to the rationale and pointed to our TOU as well as the proofs of copy-right violation. The one-liner response was that it was created by Cekli829 and hence can't be deleted !

• As I challenged Yaquboglu over his t/p; another user chimed in and pointed to the specific template for Copy-vio-deletion and supported my taggings; pending which I re-tagged all of the articles with the new template. About 72 hours later, Cekli829 (the very creator of the article) reverted me over all the 3 articles without providing any rationale and noted over the AN thread that since he had cited the links; my claims were baseless.
• Two more articles which I have tagged in meanwhile were also reverted by Cekli829, the creator-sysop. In a subsequent discussion over my t/p; he pointed to a single case of mistaken tagging (the source was available under CC-4.0) but refused to entertain the other declines and when re-asked, threatened to block me.

• As is evident, none of the admins seem to care about abiding by our copyright policies and even if aided, actively contravene them. And, very similar to Requests for comment/Copyright violations and no reason block by sysop on Azwiki wherein another sysop (Baskervill) actively refused to delete copyvio stuff from another article by Cekli829 and then there happened a mess of involved blocks, wheel-warring and what not.

• I don't like to rule on cross-wiki content but there's some extreme levels of nationalistic POV pushing; as documented over Requests for comment/Racism at Azerbaijani Wikipedia. They have effectively titled and propounded that the entire Armenian Genocide is a hoax (shades of holocaust Denial, anyone ?) and nearly every relevant article is heavily slanted against Armenians. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 12:35, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
  • I moved the above article to it's correct title whilst providing numerous high-quality scholarly sources but Cekli829 reverted the move and blocked me.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 16:03, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Təqdim etdiyiniz mənbələrlə bağlı fikrimi bildirmişəm. --►Cekli829 16:29, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Support. Yes, Azerbaijani Wikipedia has some issues with the administrators. For example, this complaint was sent by me (or at least heavily included me). Cekli829 protected Vusal, who was the direct of this complaint. He then continued to "violate copyright laws", by directly copy&pasting articles from various websites. He called Godric's software "baseless". So, yeah, his delusional intentions are very visible. Cekli829 also protects pretty unencyclopedic articles in deletion requests page. Please, take some actions against him. He blocked me for a week, because I protested against his copyright violations. This lack of restraint must have consequences. Also, denial of Armenian Genocide has nothing to do with these issues. It is a controversial subject. Armenian Wikipedia also does the same for history of Azerbaijan, and late Ottoman-early Republican Turkey history. Holocaust cannot be compared with the Armenian Genocide claim, which was a series of internal ethnoreligious conflicts within the Ottoman Empire and Azerbaijan Democratic Republic. Edits without any edit summaries are also a common issue within the Azerbaijani Wikipedia. When asked why? General answer is "can't be bothered with". Another thing, some inactive administrators' statuses are also being kept. Some adminstators truly, as stated in 2017, terrorise the Azerbaijani Wikipedia. In reality, Azerbaijani Wikipedia has great admins who are active within the rules of Wikimedia (such as: Turkmen, Toghrul Rahimli, White Demon, Azerifactory, Nicat49, Eldarado, Eminn). Most of the complaints go unheard. Such as this. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 18:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Another thing, me and Turkmen asked Cekli to paraphase the article, while Toghrul Rahimli told me via Messenger app that he was waiting Cekli to paraphase the article. Turkmen told Cekli that if he does not paraphase article, he would delete it. As we all can understand, he didn't cared. While all of these are happening, another article that violates the copyright law was also published. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 19:08, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

•  Support de-sysopping all sysops and cleaning up the wiki. I find the response below by Cekli to be wholely unsatisfactory in justifying the poor state of the wiki (the Armenian Genocide part is particularly concerning). Hiàn (talk) 21:05, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Mənim münasibətim...

İngilis dilini mükəmməl bilmədiyim üçün bu məsələyə münasibətimi ana dilimdə - azərbaycanca bildirmək istəyirəm. Ona görə də ingilis dilini mükəmməl bilən istifadəçilərdən xahiş edirəm ki, mənim yazdıqlarımı tərcümə etsinlər. Bəri başdan deyim ki, burada AzVikinin ünvanına səslənən fikirlər qərəzlidir. Açıq-aydın görünür ki, burada AzVikinin ünvanına mənfi fikirlər səsləndirən iddiaçılar Azərbaycan qanunvericiliyindən və Ermənistan–Azərbaycan Dağlıq Qarabağ münaqişəsindən xəbərdar deyillər. Ölkə qanunvericiliyi ilə bağlı ona görə qeyd edirəm ki, müəllif hüququ ilə əlaqəli məsələlərdə AzVikidə qanunvericiliyin tələbi qorunur və ona uyğun hərəkət edilir. Belə ki, "Müəlliflik hüququ və əlaqəli hüquqlar haqqında" Azərbaycan Respublikasının Qanununa əsasən, aşağıdakılar müəlliflik hüququnun obyektləri deyildir:

a) rəsmi sənədlər (qanunlar, məhkəmə qərarları, qanunvericilik, inzibati və məhkəmə xarakterli digər mətnlər), həmçinin onların rəsmi tərcümələri;

b) dövlət rəmzləri və nişanları (bayraqlar, gerblər, himnlər, ordenlər, pul nişanları, digər dövlət rəmzləri və nişanları);

v) xalq yaradıcılığı (folklor) nümunələri;

q) günün yenilikləri, müxtəlif hadisə və faktlar barədə informasiya xarakterli məlumatlar.

Həmçinin, president.az saytının məlumatlarından istifadə üçün də müvafiq icazə vardır.

Müəllif hüququ ilə bağlı qaldırılan iddiaların əksəriyyəti məhz bu məsələlər ilə bağlıdır. Və yaxud da aktiv istifadəçilərimizin əksəriyyəti yaradıcı insanlardır. Hansı ki, onların yazıları müxtəlif saytlarda dərc olunur. Qeyd edim ki, elə bu gün Winged Blades of Godric AzVikidə yaratdığım "Hallabonq" məqaləsinə "Müəllif hüququ pozuntusu" şablonunu əlavə etmişdir ki, həmin şablonda qeyd etdiyi link məhz mənim "YouTube" kanalım olan "TarPas" kanalındakı "Hallabonq / Dekopon nədir? Portağal, yoxsa mandarin? Azərbaycan onu əkən 5-ci ölkədir" adlı videonun linkidir. O videonu və mətni də mən hazırlayaraq, AzVikidə də müvafiq mövzuda məqalə yaratmışam. Ona görə də hər hansısa müəllif hüququ pozuntusundan söhbət belə gedə bilməz. Digər mübahisəli hallarda da əksər vaxtlarda vəziyyət belə olur. Onun da deyim ki, hazırda Azərbaycan dilində mövcud olan saytlar içərisində müəllif hüququnun ən yaxşı qorunduğu saytlardan biri məhz az.wikipedia.org saytıdır.

Ermənilərlə bağlı məsələyə gəldikdə isə 30 mart 2018-ci ildə Azərbaycan parlamentində qəbul olunmuş "Azərbaycanlıların soyqırımının 100 illiyi ilə əlaqədar Azərbaycan Respublikası Milli Məclisinin Bəyanatı"nda olan bu iki abzası diqqətinizə çatdırıram:

"...Erməni millətçiləri qonşu dövlətlərə, o cümlədən Azərbaycan Respublikasına qarşı ərazi iddialarına haqq qazandırmaq, bunun vasitəsi kimi seçdikləri işğalçılıq, soyqırım və dövlət terrorizmi əməllərini pərdələmək üçün hər vasitədən istifadə edərək, guya 1915-ci ildə Osmanlı dövləti ərazisində soyqırıma məruz qaldıqları, “incidilmiş, məzlum və əzabkeş xalq” olduqları barədə uydurmaların beynəlxalq miqyasda qəbul olunmasına cəhd göstərirlər. Təəssüf ki, Azərbaycan xalqına qarşı həyata keçirilmiş real soyqırım faktlarına göz yuman ayrı-ayrı dövlətlərin parlamentləri və hökumətləri, bəzən də beynəlxalq təşkilatlar bir sıra hallarda yalançı erməni təbliğatının təsiri altına düşərək, yaxud siyasi konyunkturaya əsaslanaraq “erməni soyqırımı” əfsanəsini müzakirə mövzusuna çevirmiş, hətta bu barədə əsassız və ədalətsiz aktlar qəbul etmişlər..."

"Tarixdə heç bir “erməni soyqırımının” baş vermədiyini elmi həqiqətə sadiq qalan tədqiqatçılar, o cümlədən bir sıra Qərb alimləri çoxdan sübuta yetirmişlər. “Erməni soyqırımı” haqqında uydurmalar xəstə təxəyyülün məhsulu olub real tarixi faktlara əsaslanmır. Türkiyədə Osmanlı dövrünə aid arxivlərin açılması, tədqiqatçıların, o cümlədən erməni alimlərinin XX əsrin əvvəlləri ilə bağlı tarixi sənədlərlə tanış olmağa dəvət edilməsi, lakin erməni alimlərinin sağlam elmi polemikadan imtina etməsi də “erməni soyqırımı” əfsanəsini dünyaya yayanların iç üzünü açıb göstərir."

Hamınıza hörmətlə, --►Cekli829 20:01, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

I do not agree with the racism in the Azerbaijani Wikipedia. On the contrary, nationalism in the Armenian Wikipedia shows itself more vividly. For example, just look at these pictures: [1], [2]. Moreover, in the Armenian Wikipedia they write the names of the settlements of the Azerbaijani Turks, where Armenians are not living: hy:Ակնա (քաղաք), hy:Քարվաճառ, hy:Բերձոր, hy:Քաշունիք. First, solve these problems.--Qolcomaq (talk) 10:13, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

@Cekli829: blocked me for a year on Azerbaijani Wikipedia, due to Facebook comments. Facebook isn't part of the Wikimedia Project. So anything happening there has nothing to do with this. Please, I request immediate action against Cekli, as he is clearly violating every single rule of this project. He must be de-sysoped due to abuse of rights. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 18:11, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

•  Support De-sysop all and enable Global Sysops; also, don't grant permanent adminship to any user. It will decided previous date, but sysops don't let it. --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 05:05, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support I agree with Drabdullayev17. --Samral (talk) 06:54, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support. I'm totally agree with Drabdullayev17. I don't agree racism, homophoby and despotism in the Azerbaijani Wikipedia.--Sefer azeri (talk) 07:25, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Admin links

• Analysis of azWP action
• azWP stewardry

Questions

I'm just reading through some of the material that has been presented and I have the following questions which I am interested in hearing opinions (from anyone) about.

1. There are 17 admins on az.wikipedia. Have they been invited to comment on this RFC? What about the 2 bureaucrats?
2. In particular, I would like to hear their perspectives on the three allegations that have been made:

   The copyright violations. The exceptions Cekli829 mentions may cover some but not all of the alleged violations. (@Winged Blades of Godric: is that the perception you are getting?) I wonder if "q) günün yenilikləri, müxtəlif hadisə və faktlar barədə informasiya xarakterli məlumatlar." (which Google Translate says means "q) information about the day's news, information about different events and facts") is being used as an excuse to say that entire sentences can be copied verbatim out of sources as long as they talk about facts, which pretty much means anything that one would find on Wikipedia?

   The concerns about the abuse of the block tool. One incident in particular: at Requests for comment/Sysop abuse in Azerbaijani Wikipedia an az.wiki bureaucrat User:Eldarado admits "I think that it is not right to block the user before the end of the discussion. I just want to note that Vusal1981 is unable to discuss patiently and discreetly as an administrator. This is not the first case." Was anything ever done about this?

   The concerns that content about the Armenian genocide is biased towards its denial. Specifically, what is up with w:az:Qondarma Erməni soyqırımı and why does Google Translate give me "So-called Armenian genocide" for it? This is impossible for az.wikipedia to defend. Yet administrator User:White Demon later attempts just that in the RFC, saying "Because many references, which show that it is "qondarma", are given in the article".

3. Have there been any attempts at a reconfirmation RFA for Cekli829 (or against some of the other admins) on az.wikipedia? Or are there concerns about participants being blocked or otherwise intimidated for participating in it (or even this Meta RFC)?

   Generally stewards would want to see this be resolved locally through such a discussion unless there is a very good reason not to.

4. While many of the allegations are against Cekli829, not all of them are. Is there anything to be gained by removing some of the sysops? All of the sysops/crats?

   Are the concerns that by not acting upon instances of abuse of power, they are complicit in this matter?

   Or is it best to force all admins to be reconfirmed in the spirit of fairness and resetting the slate?

   If we went this route - the three examples I gave (Chechen, Hindi, Pashto Wikipedias) probably had that many admins combined. (I apologize for not noticing how many admins they had earlier). Removing 17 admins is a bit precedent-setting (though, they do already have the global sysop group enabled). I will say that if we could have done this for Croatian Wikipedia, we would have solved their problems overnight (they only have 15 admins, though they have some CUs which was probably the sticking point).

5. In particular for Cekli829, there is also the problem described in Requests for comment/Preclude Cekli829 from running in some future steward elections. I don't know if that has any bearing on this. --Rschen7754 05:53, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

• @Rschen7754:, Aykhan Zayedzadeh (talk · contribs) blocked by Cekli829 (expiry 1 year) for Facebook comment.--NMW03 (talk) 09:52, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @NMW03:, Aykhan Zayedzadehnin bloklanmasına səbəb olan həmin Facebook kommenti Vikipediya ilə bağlı idi. O, şərhlər yazaraq, mənə böhtan atmış (məsələn, məqalələri pulla yazdığımı iddia etmiş) və məni təhqir etmişdir. --►Cekli829 10:22, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
    • Google Translate:" @ NMW03: The same Facebook statement that caused the blockage of Aykhan Zayedzadeh was related to Wikipedia. He wrote comments, slandered me (for example, I wrote articles for money) and insulted me." I interpret this as a clear admission from Cekli829 that he blocked a user on az.wikipedia because of a Facebook comment. --Rschen7754 18:18, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @Cekli829:, amma bloklama qaydalarında Facebookdakı rəyə görə bloklanılmalıdır yazılmayıb. Vikipediyada olsa bloklaya bilərdiniz.--NMW03 (talk) 10:24, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
    • @NMW03:, yəni demək istəyirsiniz ki, Vikipediyadakı fəaliyyətimə görə Aykhan Zayedzadeh məni Vikipediyadan kənarda - indiki halda "Facebook"da təhqir edə və mənə böhtan ata bilər? Sizə ötən il baş vermiş analoji halı xatırlatmaq istəyirəm: buyurun, tanış olun. --►Cekli829 10:32, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
      • • @Cekli829:, so, anyone who has ties to Wikipedia cannot using insultive words (which in fact, my words weren't insultive) outside of Wikipedia, and they are obliged to get blocked on Wikipedia? What kind of a logic is this? This is why we are thinking to de-sysop you. From the day that courtesy rules were accepted, you contantly pursued to exploit them. Sysops like you who abuse the system surely deserve punishment. When it comes to racism, I have published a complaint about usage of racist/biased POV words when describing anything related to Armenians and Armenia, as seen here. Azerbaijani Wikipedia is free to use local sources (such as Ashurbeyli, Bunyadov etc.) when giving out facts about the country it represents. Although, this must be done correspondingly with the neutral POV. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 10:48, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
• @Cekli829:, bəli çünki Facebook Vikimedia Fondunun saytı deyil. Buna görə orada yazılanlara görə bloklaması tamamilə qisasçılıq zəmnindədir. Göstərdiyiniz müzakirədə isə Mardetanha öz fikrini səsləndirib. Buna görə istifadəçinin blokunu açmağınızı xahiş edirəm.--NMW03 (talk) 18:15, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @NMW03:, bəli deyirsiniz? Buna haqqı çatırmı? Mənim üçün maraqlıdır, Siz də onun mənə atdığı böhtanla, etdiyi təhqirlərlə razısınızmı? --►Cekli829 06:16, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
• @Hiàn:, Why all sysops? Should everyone be removed from management because of one person's mistake?--NMW03 (talk) 18:24, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @NMW03: This is something I am interested in hearing from you about. If Cekli829 has made all these mistakes, then why is he still a sysop? --Rschen7754 18:26, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
• @Rschen7754:, Discussed. But nothing happened.--NMW03 (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @NMW03: And that is the problem: if azwiki administrators are not willing to vote him out (especially if the allegations of limiting the discussion to admins only is true) then they are complicit in this too. That is why the option of removing all administrators has to be considered. --Rschen7754 00:21, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
• @Rschen7754:--

  Cekli829's defense covers 2 of my tagged articles (one was a mistaken tagging and the other is gray-zone stuff). Over my az-wiki t/p; I have clearly pointed to the copy-righted status of three-pages (and how he blatantly copied from them; the timeline et al) but he has so far denied to answer those queries. He asked me to not disrupt the project, on top of his initial warning to block me.

  There was a RFC about Cekli's sysop permissions about 2 months back. A lot of sysops opined that there were no cause to remove Cekli and one even threatened to remove the OP out of some Whatsapp group, if he continued. There were some comments that only sysops can participate and all that along with a lot of (seemingly secondary) commentary about activities over some WP-group, who was admin over there and who was not.

  This's one of the reasons behind my asking for a clean slate. There's too much group-think as a result of excessive interlinking of Whatsapp, Facebook et al with the regular operations of the site. (Cekli even admits to blocking one user for comments over Facebook.)

  By not acting upon the matter, they are complicit in the entire affair. As told above by some WP-group member, (post my tagging) there have been explicit discussions about what to do with the copyright-violations, before one sysop reverted all of them. Pending my re-taggings, Cekli829 reverted those himself.

  I guess almost all the sysops know each other very well and accordingly......... I also note that despite my posting about the copyright violations over their administrator-noticeboard, not a single admin participated. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

  Re-reading his post over here, I see that he claims to have uploaded the video to the Youtube site himself and hence, copyright rules don't apply. Weird; might be true. But, the video is not in the public domain (and can't be either due to usage of copyrighted songs under fair-use).

  As a defense against painting the genocide as a lie, I see that Cekli points to the resolution achieved over Azerbaijani Parliament that professed it to be conspiracy. Brazen nationalistic editing at it's worst. As pointed out over another RFC, almost all pages toe the national line with Cekli's intensive copying of stuff from the parliament website.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 18:54, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

  I have moved the article and cited a bunch of sources over the t/p. Let's see. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 19:20, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

  @NMW03: WBG sums it up better than I can myself - I share many of the same opinions with regards to this. Hiàn (talk) 19:30, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Bloklama ilə bağlı münasibətim...

• Hörmətli @Rschen7754: və @Winged Blades of Godric:, Aykhan Zayedzadehni bloklanmağım AzVikidə olan "Bloklama qaydaları"na tam uyğundur. Belə ki, həmin qaydaların "Bloklanma səbəbləri" bölməsinin 4-cü bəndində belə göstərilib:

"İstifadəçi digər istifadəçilərə qarşı kobud davranıb onları təhqir və təhdid edərsə;" - Əgər burada "İstifadəçi Azərbaycanca Vikipediyada digər istifadəçilərə qarşı kobud davranıb onları təhqir və təhdid edərsə;" yazılsaydı, o zaman mənə qarşı ittiham səsləndirilən haqlı olardı. İndiki halda isə həmin qaydada təhqirin harada olması konkret qeyd edilməyib. Ona görə də hörmətli həmkarımız Mardetanha demişkən, "heckes tehqir etmeye haqi yox, wiki da olup ya whatsappda farqi yox".

Həmçinin həmin bölmənin sonunda yazılıb ki, "Bloklama müddəti idarəçi tərəfindən sərbəst olaraq təyin edilir." Mən də bunu və daha əvvəllər də Aykhan Zayedzadehnin dəfələrlə digər həmkarlarım Vusal1981, Baskervill və Eldarado tərəfindən bloklandığını nəzərə alaraq, mövcud blok müddətini tətbiq etdim.

Qeyd edim ki, Aykhan Zayedzadeh AzViki istifadəçilərinin hər kəsə açıq "Facebook" qrupu olan "Azərbaycanca Vikipediya - Azerbaijani Wikipedia" qrupunda məni dəfələrlə təhqir etmiş, mənə böhtan atmışdır (məsələn, məqalələri pulla yazdığımı iddia etmiş). Təəssüf ki, o, məndən üzr istəmək əvəzinə eyni fəaliyyətini bloklandıqdan sonra da davam etdirməkdədir. --►Cekli829 05:49, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Any Wikimedia site can make any policy about anything, but that policy must fall within Wikimedia norms and policies.

• It is not acceptable to block a user just because they give legitimate criticism on or off wiki. If it was, we would have blocked so many users onwiki by now for what they said in public and private rooms on IRC and Wikipedia criticism sites. The only exceptions are violations of the Privacy policy (for example, maliciously posting a user's IP, address, email, passport) and threats of harm. User:Cekli829: Did he post your private information? Did he threaten to hurt you or any other person? Why did you not block him from the Facebook group and leave it at that?
• User:Cekli829: Why did you block the user, when the comment was about you? Why did you not leave this to another administrator if it was so bad? Because you did the block, it looks like you are taking revenge against this user - not that they violated policy and so they must be blocked.
• Just a thought: secret channels used for communication can be dangerous. Transparency is a major Wikimedia principle. If you are using Facebook or WhatsApp to make decisions, this is not okay, because outsiders cannot see why you came to make a decision, and they question the fairness and integrity of the project. Anecdotally, from my time as a steward I can tell you that this is where wikis start to go bad. --Rschen7754 06:24, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

• Hörmətli @Rschen7754: mən axı "Bloklama ilə bağlı münasibətim..." hissəsində izah etdim - tətbiq etdiyim blokun AzVikinin hazırda qüvvədə olan "Bloklama qaydaları"na uyğun olduğu əsaslı şəkildə qeyd etmişəm. Əgər etirazınız varsa, Azərbaycanca Vikipediya toplumuna təklif edin ki, həmin qaydalarda konkretləşdirmə məqsədilə dəyişikliyin edilməsi üçün səsvermə keçirsinlər. Əgər qayda dəyişərsə, məsələn orada qeyd olunarsa ki, "bu qaydalar yalnız Azərbaycanca Vikipediyadakı fəaliyyət üçün nəzərdə tutulub", o zaman mən Aykhan Zayedzadehnin blokunu dərhal açaram. --►Cekli829 06:57, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Rschen7754:, blocking a user for Facebook comments is, truly, incorrect. It seems to be a great way to threatened people. Anything happening out-of-Wikipedia must stay like that. Furthermore, Cekli is overreacting, and most importantly, lying (as he always did). My comment's translation is as follows: "You might have made the article for money. There is nothing wrong with that. But protecting such as articles in such manner is ridicilous." This was my respond to Cekli calling Winged's software "baseless". You kinda can understand why I said the first sentence. The artciles are somewhat unencyclopedic, are about companies (pretty popular among paid-to-made articles), and has one or two citations, also written in a promotional manner. Cekli has always abused the system and exploited the rights given to him years ago, when AzWiki desperately needed sysops. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:07, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Rschen7754:, in another post that he made on the same group he said "filthy and ill-bred people like Aykhan Zayedzadeh has no place in Wikipedia". Isn't this hypocricy? Didn't he blocked me for the same thing he did now? --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 10:28, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Rschen7754:, also, about your first question, yes, a sysop made a post on Faceboo inviting the sysops to this RFC. Every sysop, except for the ones that are not on that group (like 2 or 3), are aware of this RFC. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 10:31, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Aykhan Zayedzadeh:, zəhmət olmazsa, sözlərimi təhrif etmə... --►Cekli829 10:34, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Rschen7754:, another thing, "Əgər qayda dəyişərsə, məsələn orada qeyd olunarsa ki, "bu qaydalar yalnız Azərbaycanca Vikipediyadakı fəaliyyət üçün nəzərdə tutulub", o zaman mən Aykhan Zayedzadehnin blokunu dərhal açaram" (If the rule is changed, for example, if they write that "these rules are only for the activity on Azerbaijani Wikipedia", then I will immediately unblock Aykhan Zayedzadeh) is enough to de-sysop someone. A rule accepted in AzWiki is automatically about AzWiki. There is no need to clarify that "this rule is for AzWiki". Btw, Cekli's latest comment is a total lie. He wrote "əxlaqsız və tərbiyəsiz" when describing me, and my translations are correct. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 11:19, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I will have to say that it is an unusual interpretation. I am sure that azwiki has rules about vandalism, but if I went to Wikia and did some vandalism, while that certainly is a bad thing, I shouldn't expect to get blocked on Azerbaijani Wikipedia, for example. --Rschen7754 05:52, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

@Rschen7754:, about your third question, no, nothing has been done about him. Since that incident he went dark. Cekli (who I suppose is a friend of Vusal) said that he had IRL issues that needed to be solved. So nothing has been done on an inactive sysop. It has been a long time since he was active, what is the meaning of keeping him as a sysop if he isn't going to reestablish his activity anytime soo? He can repropose his nomination after his IRL issues are solved. Right? --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 11:36, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Aykhan Zayedzadeh: Paid editing is a pretty serious accusation (it is a violation of the Terms of Use if not properly disclosed). Can you provide links to the articles that you reference above? --Rschen7754 18:27, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Winged Blades of Godric:, you moved page. OK. Please delete this image--NMW03 (talk) 19:54, 1 May 2019 (UTC)
  • @NMW03: That image is actually on Commons, so you will need to ask them, but why does it need to be deleted? --Rschen7754 18:14, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
• @Winged Blades of Godric:, "Erməni-soyqırımı" violates the Azerbaijani grammar rules. It should be "Erməni Soyqırımı" or "Erməni soyqırımı". --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 14:43, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
• @Rschen7754:, basically, all articles that Winged Blades of Godric demeed COPYVIO. Especially this (especially for this). Also, some articles Cekli creates promotes his YouTube channel. Is this allowed? --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 15:02, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
• @Rschen7754:, here is where Cekli insulted me. I removed some elements to protect the identity of the person who sent me this screenshot, as I'm blocked by Cekli even in Facebook. The whole post is about me, and he even wrote my username in the post. "Əxlaqlı insanlara Vikipediyada hər zaman yer olacaq. Tərbiyəsiz insanlara isə yer olmayacaq!" (There will always be a place for virtuous in Wikipedia. But never for filthy people!) is clear insult a directed towards me, which violates the courtesy rules of AzWiki. "bu qaydalar yalnız Azərbaycanca Vikipediyadakı fəaliyyət üçün nəzərdə tutulub", o zaman mən Aykhan Zayedzadehnin blokunu dərhal açaram" (If the rule is changed, for example, if they write that "these rules are only for the activity on Azerbaijani Wikipedia", then I will immediately unblock Aykhan Zayedzadeh) is a quote from Cekli. He blocked me Facebook comments, shouldn't he get blocked for this post too? I'm saying this again, Facebook isn't part of the Wikimedia Project. Anything happening there stays there, it must not interfere to Wikipedia. And sysops shall not exploit the rights WE gave them to. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 15:45, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
• @Cekli829: Can you justify your absolutely ridiculous block of WBG at azwiki? Hiàn (talk) 14:44, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
  • @Hiàn: WBG kimdir? Əgər Winged Blades of Godrici nəzərdə tutursunuzsa, ona bloklanma səbəbini izah etmişəm. --►Cekli829 15:34, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
    • That seems fair. I would hope you realise that keeping the name at present follows fairly flawed logic. Hiàn (talk) 17:02, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
      • @Hiàn: Məqalənin mövcud adı azərbaycandilli vikicəmiyyətin maraqlarına və Azərbaycan dilində olan mənbələrə uyğundur. --►Cekli829 17:08, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
        • Thing is, Cekli, Wikipedia is supposed to be a neutral website. Following the interests and beliefs of a pro-Azerbaijani viewpoint is not neutral. Every other Wikipedia article calls the event the Armenian Genocide, the Azerbaijani does not. It is the widespread consensus of scholars that the event did occur, but the Azerbaijani article chose to flagrantly disregard that. Some Japanese scholars believe the Nanjing Massacre didn't occur, but the Japanese Wikipedia article didn't call it the "Nanjing Massacre lie", eh? Hiàn (talk) 17:27, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
          • @Hiàn: Sorry for jumping into your discussion. I am in no way trying to defend Cekli829. However, I just want to know your opinion. Do you think it is fair that Armenian Wikipedia blatantly changes the map of Azerbaijan like this?--Verman1 (talk) 22:04, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
            • If it is changed, then no it is not fair. That does not in any way whatsoever justify any of the poor behaviour and content on azwiki. That is not the subject of this RfC. Hiàn (talk) 22:11, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
              • And that's the matter in my opinion. When dealing with sensitive issues like Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict, the issues must be resolved in complex form. Otherwise it may seem an hostile act. Sorry for being so straight, but because I was very close to the conflict I know this matter very well. The UN doesn't recognize Armenian Genocide. However, Azerbaijan's borders are clearly recognized at UN. Don't you think it is a bit biased to force Azerbaijani Wikipedia to accept the Armenian Genocide, but ignoring the falsifications of Armenian Wikipedia?--Verman1 (talk) 22:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
                • Absolutely not. As I said before, it is the overwhelming consensus of scholars that the genocide did happen - whether it is recognised or not is not relevant in the least bit here. The Azerbaijani Wikipedia chooses to ignore this. Again, the Azerbaijani borders situation is a different situation that should be dealt with separately. No one's trying to downplay the Armenian-Azerbaijani bias/conflict, but while we're discussing azwiki we shouldn't be discussing hywiki. Whatever the outcome of this RfC, this is not meant to deal a blow towards the Azerbaijanis, or try and suppress them in any way - this is about something far different. Hiàn (talk) 23:34, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
                  • Sorry, but again you seem like enforcing your POV. Overwhelming scholars may believe in one thing, but state archives in Turkey and in Armenia have not been researched regarding this. How we are supposed to take it as granted then? Once again, when dealing with Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict the issues must be resolved in complex form, otherwise both sides will reject the outcome, therefore discussing hywiki is not just essential, but also vital here. Otherwise it will exactly look like a blow or suppression towards Azerbaijanis, since the decision will be one-sided.--Verman1 (talk) 00:16, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
          • Qeyd edim ki, başqa dil bölmələrindəki eyni mövzulu məqalələrlə müqayisədə AzVikidə olan bu məqalənin mətnində neytrallıq prinsipləri daha yaxşı qorunub. --►Cekli829 18:20, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
            • That's a fallacy. You cannot argue something to be more neutral than the other while still claiming it to be a lie. Hiàn (talk) 22:11, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
• Comment There appears to be a news report where a Wikipedia administrator says "But the Karabakh conflict cannot be resolved by information wars. The victory of Azerbaijanis in Wikipedia will come when the Azerbaijani army liberates our land". This seems to clearly indicate that there are certain administrators on the Azerbaijani wiki are clearly pushing a nationalistic POV. FR30799386 (talk) 16:20, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
• @FR30799386:, Tarkhan Pashazadeh is Cekli829 himself. Per commons file and social media link disclosed by Cekli himself. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  Hi all. Firstly excuse for my late commenting this topic as a bureaucrat of Azwiki. I've read all of the above. And I'll try to explain all the questions of Rschen7754. Almost all of the ideas against Cekli829 are true, and if we can remove the Cekli829's sysop rights, most of the problems will be solve in Azwiki. Why can't we do that? Because, according to the old local rules, the voting for removing the sysops rights were required to be approved by all sysops. But by voting we have made changes to these rules. According to the new rules: For start voting will need approval of only a large part of the sysops. And now, our community can start to voting for removing sysops and bureaucrat simply. We need some time to solve recent problems, and I think that this important decision that will affect a community should not be approved in such a short time. First, we must try to solve our problem locally. The following voting can be a major blow to the Azwiki community. Therefore, I think it would be the best solution to give some advices for resolving the problems in the local direction. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to ask me.--eldarado ^✉ 21:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Eldarado: Thank you for your reply. We would like to avoid removal of all administrative rights if possible. But some more questions:

  The previous discussion [3] had 4 oppose votes and 1 support vote. Is this correct? Wouldn't this also fail under the new rules, because it "will need approval of only a large part of the sysops"?

  Other administrators have been mentioned in these RFCs. What do you say about their conduct?

  Finally, it seems that other administrators are justifying their actions because of Cekli829. How then do we know that a desysop request for Cekli would succeed? --Rschen7754 21:37, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  What if we desysopped Cekli and banned him from re-obtaining sysop rights for six months from here, then stepped back and let the local community work out the problems? That and some clearly explained expectations for user treatment, blocking, and responding to copyright infractions might just resolve this without needing to use more drastic measures. – Ajraddatz (talk) 21:44, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  I think there's two courses of action here: 1) wait to see if the local community desyops Cekli - which I don't think will happen, or 2) do it here. But I would like to hear the answers to the questions I posed above. I also want to be careful that we are not just assigning more blame to Cekli, just because well, he is a lot more globally known for his steward nominations. --Rschen7754 22:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  Or I suppose, 3) if @Cekli829: chooses to voluntarily resign. --Rschen7754 01:08, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Ajraddatz: it also will be good solution way, because most of problems directly about Cekli. --eldarado ^✉ 22:20, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  Hello everyone. We will raise this issue in the near future. Discussion of blocks has already started. I ask you to be patient and give us time. Regards,Turkmen ^talk 21:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Rschen7754: I think that the after the recent problems other sysops opinions will change. And I would like to mention other sysops names for join this discussion. @Anar kerimxanov:, @Araz Yaquboglu:, @Azerifactory:, @Babək Akifoğlu:, @Baskervill:, @Eminn:, @Nicat49:, @Qolcomaq:, @Sortilegus:, @Toghrul Rahimli:, @Wertuose:, @White Demon: --eldarado ^✉ 22:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Turkmen and Eldarado: I can only speak for myself here. I don't think this RFC will close within this week. However, what concerns me is that this behavior has gone on for years, and it is only now when mass desysops have been proposed that there has been any action taken on the part of the azwiki community. I don't think anyone expects to have all the problems of azwiki solved overnight. But you need to convince us that you are going to work on these problems, and sooner rather than later (and it would help to have some of the mentioned sysops acknowledge their own errors). If the plan is to have a discussion that will last months and eventually die out with no action - that's not okay. Right now I still support my proposal of removing all rights on azwiki because I'm convinced that this is the only way that the problem will be fixed - but I'm willing to consider less drastic options if convinced otherwise. --Rschen7754 05:31, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

  And also Turkmen, to clarify, under my proposal former admins would not be blocked, stewards would just not grant admin rights again for a period of time (but editing would still be allowed). --Rschen7754 05:35, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

  @Rschen7754: I think you're right. My idea was first to solve this issue locally and if I didn't do it, I would fully support your proposal. I will arrange a discussion for this evening to remove Cekli's status. I would like to have this problem solved by the Azwiki community. --eldarado ^✉ 06:41, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

I think it is a good idea to only desysop Cekli for now. Then we can deal with other sysop locally. If anything goes wrong we can repropose this. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 10:27, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Proposal

Statement of the issues

This statement is intended to be concise and easy to understand. It is not by any means intended to reference every single instance of alleged violation of Wikimedia policies and norms. Additional information can be found in the discussions and RFCs mentioned above.

• Copyright violations: See threads at [4] and w:az:Vikipediya:İdarəçilərə_müraciət#Copyright_violation. While exceptions may cover some of the questionable articles (not considering the issues of plagiarism here), not all of the articles have been accounted for. Cekli829 also threatens to block over the questioning of his own articles.
• Abuse of block tool: Cekli829 blocking a user over a Facebook comment (see discussion immediately under my original comment in the #Questions section, where Cekli829 freely admits to this)
• Use of admin tools to push POV editing: This is not intended to be an exhaustive list, but here is one example:
  • w:az:Qondarma Erməni soyqırımı translates to "So-called Armenian genocide"
  • To quote from admin White Demon: "Because many references, which show that it is "qondarma", are given in the article"
  • User:Winged Blades of Godric moves it to a different name [5]
  • Cekli829 moves it back [6]
  • Cekli829 blocks Winged Blades of Godric for 1 week [7] and states "The sources in the sources you represent are accurate and do not reflect the truth. A large part of the Azerbaijani public is dissatisfied with the views expressed in those sources" (Google Translate, "accurate" probably should be "inaccurate" given the context).
• Accusations of undisclosed paid editing have been made but I am not in the position to comment on their validity.

Why steward intervention is needed

• A discussion to review the sysop status of Cekli829 failed to remove administrative rights or provide effective accountability.
  • The comments of bureaucrat User:Eldarado at 18:41, 26 fevral 2019 (UTC) seem to discourage the participation of non-administrators (though Google Translate is not very clear).
• It is apparent throughout the discussions referenced that Facebook and WhatsApp groups play a large part of the governance of azwiki (so much so that users are blocked based on what they say there), and naturally those groups exclude the participation of editors from the decision making process. It is impossible to determine if any coordinated response is being organized to issues such as the desysop discussion and this very RFC, though we have been told that a link to this RFC was made in that group (see above).

Proposal

• All admins/bureaucrats/interface admins will have their rights removed
• No local admins/bureaucrats/interface admins for 6 months from close of RFC
  • During this time global sysops and stewards will patrol the wiki
• No permanent local admins/bureaucrats/interface admins for 12 months from close of RFC
  • For stewards to assign temporary or permanent rights, elections must be conducted in a fair manner (allow all azwiki editors to participate), have the necessary levels of support, and not be affected by canvassing.
• Stewards will conduct a review of long-term blocks of users

Discussion

•  Support as proposer. --Rschen7754 01:14, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
• Pinging those who commented on supporting something like this previously: @StraussInTheHouse, Winged Blades of Godric, Aykhan Zayedzadeh, Hiàn, Drabdullayev17, and Samral: --Rschen7754 01:18, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support The blocking of Winged Blades of Godric and the issues with a genocide are fairly major. While all wikis have some inherent biases built in politically (en.wiki has many...) playing politics with the attempted destruction of an entire group of people brings our entire movement into disrepute, and the use of admin tools by that community as a whole appears problematic for the reasons Rschen7754 has laid out. I am typically very wary of expanding the scope of GS wikis for a variety of reasons, but this is a case where I think it is needed. Very regretful support. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:44, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
• Notified Stewards via stewards-l. — regards, Revi 07:45, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  @-revi: can you also notify GS via GS mailing list? Since there are possibility of GS had to take action on this wiki now.--Aldnonymous^Bicara? 08:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  Done. Trijnstel_talk 13:03, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

  Thanks!--Aldnonymous^Bicara? 13:08, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

• Strong oppose Təklifləriniz birmənalı şəkildə erməni maraqlarına xidmət edir və tərəfli olduğunuzu göstərir. Bunun əvəzinə sizlərə tövsiyə edərdim ki, hy.wikipedia.org saytında müddətsiz blokumun açılması üçün təşəbbüs göstərəsiniz. Qeyd edim ki, Ermənistan–Azərbaycan Dağlıq Qarabağ münaqişəsi səbəbindən Vikipediyanın müxtəlif dil bölmələrində müvafiq mövzularda olan fikirlər informasiya müharibəsinin də tərkib hissəsidir və bu çox normaldır. --►Cekli829 08:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Strong support --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment For some reason two administrators (won't name them for privacy concerns) supported Cekli's move on Facebook. "Təklifləriniz birmənalı şəkildə erməni maraqlarına xidmət edir və tərəfli olduğunuzu göstərir" (your proposals synonymously supports the Armenian interests and shows that you are biased; quote by Cekli) is clear indication of nationalistic approach on Wikipedia. Transparency in Azerbaijani Wikipedia is a major issue, many admins know each other closely, so they will, and are, surely, looking the other way. So, restructuring the sysops section is necessary. Please, take this into consideration after 6 months. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
    • Comment also, according to Cekli, I'm pulling the Azerbaijani Wikipedia to a crisis. What a joke. I'm just waiting to be called "a traitor to the motherland" by one of these people. A move from meta was important, as this thing has been (probably) continuing for a long time. I've been active on AzWiki since January 2017. Also, nearly every sysop was against this going to meta. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:27, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Strong support Support Cekli's Strong Oppose just strengthens my belief that there is need for some sort of intervention into the ivory tower the Azerbaijani Wikipedia administrators have built for themselves. Insinuating that everybody in this discussion supports the Armenians and then doubling down to proclaim that information warfare regarding these topics are the norm clearly shows that he is pushing a nationalistic or a anti-Armenian sentiment. This sort of POV is exactly what is completely at odds with the goals of Wikipedia. Additionally, refusal to act on copyright violations and the use of the blocking tool to eliminate anybody who holds a viewpoint which is different from those held by the "Azerbaijani public" is concerning. FR30799386 (talk) 12:19, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment Certain statements in this interview of Cekli829 during a editathon leave a really bad taste in my mouth and was among one of the foremost reasons compelled me to support this proposalFR30799386 (talk) 12:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment @FR30799386:, hesab edirəm ki, Siz güvənilir istifadəçi deyilsiniz. Qlobal hesab məlumatlarınıza baxdıqda bunu açıq-aydın görmək mümkündür. Orada en.wikipedia.org layihəsində müddətsiz bloklandığınız qeyd olunub:

Blocked indefinitely. (yeni hesab yaratma bloklanıb) Reason: {{checkuserblock-account}}

Bunu necə izah edərdiniz? --►Cekli829 13:05, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

How is this relevant in any way? Hiàn (talk)/_{editing on mobile account} 14:20, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment Hörmətli @Hiàn:, Sizə elə gəlmir ki, bütün bunlar AzVikiyə qarşı təxribatdır; eyni zamanda mənim aktiv fəaliyyətimə qarşı təxribatdır?!... Qeyd edim ki, mən də daxil olmaqla, idarəçilərin əksəriyyəti Azərbaycanda Vikimedia hərəkatının yayılmasında, genişlənməsində aktiv şəkildə fəaliyyət göstəririk. Hətta mən Vikipediya mövzusunda iki kitabın müəllifiyəm, Vikipediya ilə bağlı çox sayda təlimlər keçmişəm, müxtəlif konfranslarda çıxış etmişəm, təqdimatlar göstərmişəm. Lakin AzVikidə bir neçə istifadəçi var ki, onlar qaydaları pozduğu üçün dəfələrlə bloklanmış, hətta ikisi daha əvvəl idarəçi olmuş, lakin etimadı doğrultmadıqları üçün vikicəmiyyət tərəfindən idarəçilik statusları geri alınmışdır (1), (2) və s. Elə bu müzakirələri başladan Lojbanist də qlobal bloklanmış istifadəçidir. Bütün bunlar Ermənistan–Azərbaycan Dağlıq Qarabağ münaqişəsi fonunda baş verir və onun tərkib hissəsidir. Mən stüard namizədi olduğum zamanlarda da (2011, 2011-2, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017) əleyhimə verilmiş səslər ilk növbədə hy.wikipedia.org saytında blokda olduğum üçün gəlirdi. (Bu müzakirələrə də baxmağınız, faydalı olardı.) Həmin vaxtlarda da bu məsələlər müxtəlif formalarda müzakirə olunmuşdur. Nə qədər ki, Ermənistan–Azərbaycan Dağlıq Qarabağ münaqişəsi həllini tapmayıb, bu problemlər beləcə davam edəcək. Çünki hər toplumun - həm Azərbaycan xalqının, həm də Ermənistan xalqının müvafiq məsələlərə baxışı fərqlidir və hərəsinin öz mövqeyi var. Onların bu mövqelərinin Vikipediyanın müvafiq dil bölmələrində də öz əksini tapması düşünürəm ki, mövcud status-kvo üçün çox normaldır. Bu məsələləri hər bir dil bölməsinin öz toplumu həll etməlidir. Çünki başqa dil bölmələrinin istifadəçiləri AzViki toplumuna tam bələd deyillər və Azərbaycan dilini də bilmirlər. --►Cekli829 09:17, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
I'm Indian, and am not a sock of the globally locked user who started this RFC, in fact I didn't even know that you had run for multiple steward elections before this RFC. Regards. — FR 00:52, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Support --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 13:46, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
• Strong support per Cekli's oppose !vote which shows a blatant lack of self-awareness. As I said above, he (and the other sysops) have effectively turned Az-Wikipedia into a tool to push their own nationalistic POV. Cekli's own brazen admission, where-in he accuses the OP of being politically motivated and asks us to migrate to Armenian Wikipedia (Azerbaizan and Armenia have been involved in a decade-long series of conflicts) whilst asserting that the present biases are quite normal courtesy information warfare (coupled with his weird comments over the piece linked by FR) exhibit that they are an utter disgrace to the broader motto of Wikimedia. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 15:03, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

• The more Cekli is writing over here as, the more am I being certain of his being an entire misfit for our broader purposes. Anybody whose motive is to push Azerbaizani POV into Azerbaini Wikipedia, to counter the Armenian folks over hy.wiki, need to migrate to some non-Wikimedian site.

• That being said, I am keeping a tab on their internal discussion to remove his sysop bits, which will be a major factor as to whether (or not) we proceed with RsChen's nuclear option. AFAIS, it's roughly the same circumstances as was the last time and Cekli is (as-usual) pointing to hy.wiki stuff as some sort of justification whilst accusing us of blocking their common interests. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 10:35, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Support--Samral (talk) 15:18, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Oppose a blanket desysop at this time. I think that we could apply a finer instrument in this case and re-evaluate after. Specifically, I would support a desysop of Cekli and any other specific admins/crats that have enabled the copyright violations and inappropriate block(s). I know that in the past we've had an all or nothing approach, but as we are internet volunteers and not a court of common law we are not bound to our previous decisions. – Ajraddatz (talk) 17:44, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
  • I am open to considering this, but there are some practicalities that would have to be worked out. Since azwiki has bureaucrats, there is no technical means to prevent a bureaucrat from regranting Cekli the rights (such as happened on Commons a few years ago). --Rschen7754 17:49, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
    • That is a problem. We could desysop Cekli, give him a clear explanation of how his behaviour warrants desysopping, and ban him from holding administrative permissions for six months. Local bureaucrats could be warned to not overturn the ban and desysopped if they do. A bit more messy, but it retains the local community as much as possible. – Ajraddatz (talk) 18:40, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
  • @Ajraddatz: I can't detail the misdeeds of every sysop (if you are looking for such evidence) but they are wholly complicit in this affair. From mass-opposing the de-sysop proposal of Cekli (which was raised on roughly similar issues, months back) to another sysop's de-tagging my Copyvio-detections noting that it was written by Cekli and (hence??) can't be deleted. Over this RFC, WhiteDemon (yet another sysop) similarly pushes the nationalistic line and when queried about the genocide stuff (coupled with other extreme nationalistic POV pushing) points toward hy.wiki stuff as a quasi-justification of their actions along with other lame rebuts. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 18:53, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support for the reasons put forward by Tony Ballioni and in light of Cekli's behaviour, one must considered whether Cekli should further be sanctioned individually for their conduct. Nick (talk) 17:45, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
• comment I am hesitant to get involved in this but Cekli's response here really concerns me but I'm not sure that I'm ready to support an desysop of everyone. I am also profoundly concerned that so much is done off-wiki in such a murky, almost deceptive way, but most of this RFC seems to be predicated on Cekli's behavior, so I'd like to get clarification on why that's not being dealt with first? But even asking this, I keep circling back to this issue of WhatsApp/FB decision making for an entire community and it does not inspire confidence in me with the current "leadership" there, as well as some other issues which involve BLPs but that's another matter. Praxidicae (talk) 17:56, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment @Praxidicae and Ajraddatz: do you think de-sysop of Cekli is enough in this case? What about other sysops? I think they are gulity because didn't do anythink about Cekli and protect other users right. --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 18:23, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

I honestly don't think that just desysopping Cekli is enough given the rampant behind the scenes colluding but I also haven't evaluated all the administrator's behavior there. I do however think that Cekli should be desysopped regardless of the outcome of this RFC in terms of AZwiki over all. Praxidicae (talk) 18:30, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment @Praxidicae: I think other sysops will re-elect if they deserve. So de-sysop all of them is not big deal. --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 18:40, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't agree that dismantling an entire, active community is no big deal. Praxidicae (talk) 18:41, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Support Winged Blades of Godric's last comment combined with my uneasiness about the off-wiki collaboration among other things makes me think that a serious change is needed and this appears to be the only way to quell the apparent abuse happening on AZwiki. Praxidicae (talk) 18:59, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment Please note the above mentioned correspondence.--Turkmen ^talk 21:53, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Turkmen Can you please explain what exactly you are pointing out about this correspondence? Praxidicae (talk) 13:52, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment I'd also like to add to my original statement, as I forgot to do so yesterday, that I don't think turning AZ into a GS wiki is a good idea and I don't have a perfect solution but I think that a better way to go about this should it pass is to evaluate each administrator individually (and crats) and make it clear that all admin actions (specifically blocks and similar) must be discussed on-wiki and must point to on-wiki conduct, rather than such actions being decided in the proverbial "backroom". As far as dealing with the heavy-handed, retributive blocks based in pov-violating nationalism from those with tools, I don't have a solution for that other than I do think it is Wikimedia's (and the community as a whole) responsibility not to allow such things to proliferate and flourish on an open encyclopedia and to continue to allow such things damages the integrity of all projects. Praxidicae (talk) 13:52, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Support. While I am not particularly keen on having a blanket desysop occur, I think this is the right course of action given the evidence of abuse presented. Similarly to Nick, I'd support further sanctions on Cekli. Hiàn (talk) 23:28, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
• Comment Hi! First and foremost i'm sorry for being a bit late for the discussion. As the most recently-elected sysop i can tell that there're a lot of things to deal with on Azwiki. A lot of pages still need to be fixed, templates are very unstable, Mediawiki pages have to be updated, Laboratory has to be handled carefully. We read the articles and choose whether it can be a good or featured article. Global sysops don't know Azerbaijani so it will make the whole situation more complex. We have to take these into account before making these kind of decisions. Sincerely--Toghrul Rahimli (talk) 05:43, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support I'm not agree armenaphobic views of Cekli and other admins--Sefer azeri (talk) 05:53, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• Strong oppose I only support to remove admin rights of Cekli829.--NMW03 (talk) 10:40, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• Strong oppose I've read the whole discussion and as a sysop in Az.wikipedia, I can say that before any decisions, neutral admins / bureacrauts should check Cekli's track record before any decisions. Let's be honest, some of the users that accuse Cekli, violated the rules multiples times, and that includes Wikipedia:The duck test. As a result, it is very easy to finger point and blame sysops. Furthermore, I strongly believe there is a hidden discussion going on social media to overthrow admins, which also breaches Wikipedia's rules. Regards.-- Azerifactory (talk) 10:33, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

  I've wrote my opinion above as I believe it will cause huge disruptions in Az.Wiki's work and I'm writing this an admin in Az.Wiki.--Azerifactory (talk) 10:43, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

  I'm sorry, what? I live in California and have never been to Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, or Turkey. I have written entire articles about roads in California. There is no conspiracy here, I just believe that Wikimedia wikis shouldn't be run by admins who abuse their tools to push POV and copyvios. --Rschen7754 06:05, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

  I live in India and have never set foot outside my country except en:Chiang Mai and Raleigh. Neither do I know any Armenian (or Azerbaijani) nor am I any active over other social-media-sites. To the best of my knowledge, I am yet to go into the business of socks. But, you are obviously free to sketch conspiracy theories to dismiss legitimate concerns, (that have been since co-voiced by multiple users in good standing).Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 11:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Strongly oppose Hi all. I am a sysop of az-wiki and Azerbaijani Wikimedians User Group leader. Because of my work I had no time to read discussions and share my views here before. That's why I am really surprised by the tension of discussions, and especially by the statements of some az-wiki users who are periodically conflicting with other users and sysops on different issues, and of two former sysops who were a nightmare of users, but now all of them are accusing az-wiki sysops in actions that allegedly violate the rules or threaten the future of the project. Of course knowing all our active users and sysops well, I agree with some of their claims, I know that feeling of frustration when someone blackmails you or edit warring with you or blocks you from editing. But as a user who has many edits in Russian and English wikis, and as a participant of many conferences organised by Wikimedia Foundation I know that the same situation is common for almost all wikiprojects. In the past 4 years with efforts of our user group we achieved global ban of 2 users, one of them was a sysop. So our users are familiar with such issues and we know what is wrong and what is good for az-wiki. We don't block anyone for more than one year and most of those who were blocked for one year or less can be unblocked after few months if they are willing to edit and ask sysops to unblock them. I just want to say that relations between users and sysops are not that catastrophic as some users want to show here, and it seems that they use Meta for revenge. I think that desysoping of all sysops is not a solution, because of some unintended results and problems which will arise after 6 months. Rschen7754, I will send my views on this issue by e-mail to you. If stewards have specific proposals, we can take them into account. I will organize a wikimeeting this week and discuss with all involved users and sysops the situation, and also will start discussion on az-wiki to learn opinions of users who cannot participate in offline meeting. I hope it will help to solve the problems.--Wertuose (talk) 11:02, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Wertuose: What do you feel about az:Qondarma_Erməni_soyqırımı and my block by Cekli? Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 11:24, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Winged Blades of Godric: the immediate block is not needed in such cases, because firstly sysop has to explain the reasons of his edits or reverts. The name of article is incorrect, because the word "so-called" cannot be used in the name of article. Azerbaijani historiography backs Turkish claims about Armenian Genocide and we cannot ask anyone in az-wiki to write this article in line with Armenian claims. Such actions by az-wiki users can cause situation like in Turkey, where Wikipedia is banned by authorities, and threats for users. But the name change is possible I think.--Wertuose (talk) 12:08, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• Such actions by az-wiki users can cause situation like in Turkey, where Wikipedia is banned by authorities -- So, you effectively parrot Azerbaijani government claims across multiple articles (as put out over this RFC, in more details) and choose to rapidly shut down any user, who rebuts your nationalistic agenda-pushing. FWIW, I am clueless as to why you deem me to be an Armenian and/or make hazy claims about mine coming from az-wiki. Also, do you believe that the bunches of sources mentioned over here are written by Armenians? Have you read about Armenian Genocide denial or believe that roughly every wiki (apart from your's) are victims of Armenian users? Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 12:19, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Winged Blades of Godric: If you want to discuss Armenian Genocide I can find Azerbaijani academicians who will discuss this with you. I am not a historian and not an expert in genocides, so I can't help you on this. I just said that Azerbaijani historiography backs Turkish claims about Armenian Genocide and we cannot ask anyone in az-wiki to write this article in line with Armenian claims. You have to ask not az-wiki users, but Azerbaijani historians, Ministry of Education, other governmental organisations and politicians to change their views about this issue and publish it, as we can cite them.--Wertuose (talk) 13:00, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Wertuose and Azerifactory: What is your future plan about Cekli? --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 13:32, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

@Drabdullayev17: We have to decide together inside community. As I proposed we will discuss it in wikimeeting and online. Me or any other sysop cannot force users to make decision, I can just share my views and users are free to make decision. If as a result of the discussions we will decide to desysop any of our sysops, this decision will be put into action. But the topics for discussion will be set by stewards. I want to see specific proposals on what they want from us. IMHO this is the only way for our users and sysops to feel accountable.--Wertuose (talk) 14:35, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

So what you are saying is that the az.wiki sysops are willing to use the tools to enforce the governments view of a genocide against users arguing for the objective fact that such a genocide occurred? Your response here proves why a blanket desysop is needed. TonyBallioni (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Check this category -- name and it's contents. Also this article -- I've seen negation-ism and denial-ism in cases of genocide but this's ...... Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 14:47, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

I didn't say anything about enforcing the governments views, I said that this is Azerbaijani historiography's views. And you think that by desysoping you will solve the problem and after 6 months we will elect new sysops who don't live in Azerbaijan and don't read Azerbaijani sources? You are talking about facts, but don't think about reality. I see that you and some other users want to change the direction of discussion from desysoping because of misuse of administrative rights to Armenian genocide denial. Or am I wrong?--Wertuose (talk) 14:35, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

The issue that this part of the RFC is trying to address is that sysops are using the block tool to enforce a particular POV (Armenian genocide denial) on the article. --Rschen7754 18:33, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Winged Blades of Godric:, why are you falsely accusing me or some of my colleagues for anti-Armenian sentiment, without any evidence. Perhaps you are suffering from anti-Azerbaijani sentiment, since you've very active in slandering innocent users that have nothing to do with this whole case.--Azerifactory (talk) 16:33, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Azerifactory:, why are you falsely accusing me or some of my colleagues for anti-Armenian sentiment, without any evidence. Not falsely, Cekli has proven that he is pursuing a nationalist approach. Perhaps you are suffering from anti-Azerbaijani sentiment, since you've very active in slandering innocent users that have nothing to do with this whole case. When and how? --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:53, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Aykhan Zayedzadeh, stop slandering me. I was referenting to Winged Blades of Godric. Or perhaps is it ur sockpuppet, since u are keen to defend him?--Azerifactory (talk) 16:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

@Winged Blades of Godric:, you are my sockpuppet ==D @Azerifactory:, yes, I, a person who doesn't know Indian, a person who is busy on AzWiki, will open a sockpuppet user and do all of this. Azerifactory, why are you so delusional? With your logic Cekli is your sockpuppet lmao. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 16:59, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Wertuose: you are mistaking us for Cekli. He is the one using Wikipedia as a revenge tool. As he blocked me for a Facebook comment. This is clearly used for revenge purposes. Also, I'm against dealing with Cekli locally. I'm sure that he will find a way out in AzWiki, as it is dominated by users who know him personally (including you). --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:39, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Support. The issues were there for a long, long time, and no admins tried to get the wiki in order and push against the biased views of ‘Azerbaijani community’ as Cekli829 calls it (as long as there’s no evidence to the contrary). Genocide denial should be strongly pushed back against by our movement, and a blanket desysop is the only way we can show we are serious against such things and will not allow any community to get away with it.
  Any similar issues with Armenian Wikipedia can be raised and dealt with in a separate RfC (although NPOV regarding Nagorno-Karabakh question is less egregious than genocide denial), it’s not an excuse for Azerbaijani admins, as it stands, it’s just a distraction. As to why Azerbaijani community might be ruled via Facebook/Whatsapp groups, it seems like having offwiki communications is a long-standing tradition (link in Russian) of the present community. stjn^[ru] 14:17, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Strongly oppose. Bəzi anlaşılmamazlıqlara görə bütün idarəçilərdən statuslarının alınması çıxış yolu deyil. Yaxın zamanda keçiriləcək görüşdən sonra bütün anlaşılmamazlıqların aradan qalxacağına inanıram. Hörmətlə.--Nicat49 (talk) 16:11, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support. In addition to the genocide denial and apparent misuse of admin tools, azwiki is about 470 times smaller than the English Wikipedia; it would be much easier for an in-group to form on a smaller wiki, and it would be much easier for an in-group to significantly influence the overall operation of said wiki. I think this is a warranted course of action, although I don't know if there's anything better that could plausibly be done. Jc86035 (talk) 16:15, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Strongly oppose Mübahisələrin qlobal müstəviyə keçməsinə əsas görmürəm və bu müzakirə qərarını AzViki üçün olduqca sərt hesab edirəm.--Babək Akifoğlu (talk) 17:51, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment Remember my statement? I'm just waiting to be called "a traitor to the motherland" by one of these people. This is actually happening now in this and this page lol. The discussion in this page (last two discussions) is the proof of the need for general desysoping. For example, Bloklanan kimi metada öz "dərdlərinə" əlac axtarmağa başlayırlar. Orada da onlara özləri kimi o vikidən, bu vikidən bloklanıb "qovulmuş" istifadəçilər həmdərd tapılır, ya da əsasən daha çox erməni-fars kökənli istifadəçilər hay verirlər. Onlar üçün də "nə olursa olsun, azvikiyə zərər olsun" prinsipi əsasdır. Cekli də o 3-4 istifadəçinin "ipini yığan" idarəçilərdən biridir, ona görə də hay-küyün əsas mərkəzində o olur həmişə is a quote by @Sortilegus:. Apparently we are working with users that are of Armenian and Persian decent. Also, "ipini yığan" is an offensive term used by Sortilegus. It seems that sysops are allowed to insult ordinary users whenever they want. Btw, @Çim Çen In: has a interesting case with @Azerifactory: (exposing him) that needs to be checked. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:50, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Comment So, basically, nearly everyone opposing this is a sysop in AzWiki. And they responded only after the proposal was shown. They truly didn't cared for COPYVIO, users breaking the NPVO and Cekli abusing the sysop tools. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 09:55, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Strongly support! Bir ay ərzində ən çox redaktə məndə olub. Buna görə medal da verdilər. Amma medal veriləndə mən bloklanmışdım. O vaxtdan blokdayam Aykhan Zayedzadehin əsassız bloklanmağına etiraz etdiyimə görə. Yazdım ki, "İdarəçilər bizə yuxarıdan aşağı baxırlarsa burada fəaliyyət göstərə bilməyəcəyik. Erməni dilini öyrənib, keçərik ermənicə Vikipediyaya, ermənilər bizə qiymət verərlər." Buna gə Azerifactory mənə xəbərdarlıq etdi, guya bu şantajdır. Dedim xəbərdarlığı qəbul etmirəm, istədiyim vikipediyanı seçmək mənim şəxsi işimdir. Bunu yazan kimi blokladı. Garabekir (talk) 12:02, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support Heç bir qaydanı pozmamışam. Yalnız bir məqalədə dəyişiklik etmişəm, istəyirdim səhvləri düzəldim. Amma imkan vermədilər. Cekli829-in səhv etdiyini yazan kimi əvvəlcə məni təhqir etdi, dedi adım arvad adıdır, sonra müddətsiz blokladı. Bloklama üçün heç bir səbəb göstərmir, suallarıma da cavab vermədi. Demişdi rusca vikipediyaya yaz :) mən də yazmışdım. O vaxtdan gözləyirəm. İngiliscəm zəif olduğu üçün Azərbaycanca yazıram, yoldaşlardan xahiş edirəm bunu ingiliscəyə çevirsinlər. Əvvəlcədən təşəkkürlər. Ayan Bəkirov (talk) 15:35, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

I would like to all admins check all users' trackrecord before making any decisions as some of the users here violated the laws many times and I'm pretty sure there are sockpuppets among them.--Azerifactory (talk) 16:45, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

• Ayan Bəkirov, ingiliscəniz zəifdirsə burdakı müzakirələri başa düşmədən niyə lehinə səs verirsiniz? İstifadəçi adınız Ayandır. Hər halda Ayan adlı birinə oğlan/bəy deməyəcəyik.--NMW03 (talk) 20:58, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

@NMW03: guya ağıllı bir sual verdiniz? Bu sualı Cekli829ə niyə vermirsiniz? Axı o da Azərbaycanca yazır, ingiliscə yaza bilmir? Mən igiliscə başa düşürəm, yaza bilmirəm, aydındırmı? Məsələn, dostunuz birlikdə vandallıq etdiyiniz, Vikipediyanın işini birlikdə pozduğunuz, Azerifactory deyir ki burada istifadəçilərin bəzisi klondur, yoxlamaq lazımdır. Söz düşmüşkən, dostunuz, birlikdə vandallıq etdiyiniz Azerifactory Azərbaycanca yaza bilmir, başa da düşmür, ondan bir soruşun Azərbaycanca vikipediyada nə işi var? Dostundursa deməli onun dilini sən bilirsən. Cope paste üsulu ilə məqalələr düzəldir, ağlına nə gəldi yazır, onu nə məcbur edir buna? Soruşun, mən soruşsam cavab verməyəcək, sizə bəlkə cavab verdi. Ayan Bəkirov (talk) 21:48, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

• Ayan Bəkirov, for your speech style, you can be sure that your block will not opened.--NMW03 (talk) 22:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

@NMW03: please translate your question also in English. And first give this question to Cekli829, let's look at some of the toughest interview questions, and some sample responses. What do you think you can get by continuing with insults? Ayan Bəkirov (talk) 23:06, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

• Strong oppose I am especially surprised why Armenian Genocide matters here. Even UN doesn't acknowledge it as a genocide. Why to force this upon Azerbaijani Wikipedia? Can someone explain it to me? Seems not rational for me. Regarding Cekli829, because I don't have much information about his activitiy and background in this issue, I would remain neutral.--Verman1 (talk) 22:17, 8 May 2019 (UTC)

Verman1, UN does recognise the genocide. Additionally, thousands of independent academic sources have established that the event occured. Regards. — FR 00:39, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

FR30799386 Wrong information. UN never recognized Armenian Genocide. Moreover, 90% of UN members don't recognize this genocide. This discussion seems to me more like enforcing Azerbaijani Wikipedia to accept Armenian Genocide (which goes beyond Wikipedia's neutrality principle), than to desysop Cekli829. If it was only about him, I would remain neutral. --Verman1 (talk) 06:53, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

@Verman1: International consensus is the event happened. There is no POV pushing because this is not an opinion. How long will azwiki choose to fly right in the face of the evidence and ignore it? Hiàn (talk) 20:07, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

@Hiàn: Before anyone tries to interpret my opinion (as well as the opinion of majority Azerbaijani Wikipedia users and editors), I want to put this straight out. Yes, the event happened. The only disagreement is over the naming. What happened during 1915-1923 in Ottoman Empire was ethnic cleansing perpetuated by both sides. Will you deny it? This doesn't qualify as "genocide", which is one of the reasons why 90% of countries and UN doesn't recognize it. You guys are falsely accusing Azerbaijani Wikipedia in nationalism. --Verman1 (talk) 20:49, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Verman1, if you don't have much information about Cekli's activity, why you oppose? Because main cause of this Rfc is his activity. Please think again. --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 04:02, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

• Comment -- We are not discussing one of the core issues pertaining to the existing copyright-violations (and a refusal by sysops to delete them). I will be interested to note the views of other sysops, as to the issue. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 06:06, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
•  Support per Winged Blades of Godric's above comment. Yes, there are underlying issues which will require addressing in future, such as the active editors' attitudes towards certain controversial topics and resultant neutrality of the articles on the wiki. However, when active sysops refuse to delete a copyright violation and actually block a member of the Small Wiki Monitoring Team for bringing it to their attention, grave legal implications arise. If the copyright owner decides to take legal action against the Wikimedia Foundation, what are they to do? Blame it on a group of mostly-anonymous volunteer sysops who refuse to enact the basic principles they're supposed to uphold? Or will the numerous violations just be dealt with via the DMCA process? The Wikimedia Foundation ought to rely on its volunteers to enforce these policies, that's one of the core reasons sysops have the ability to delete pages and revisions thereof. If the cohort of administrators is not fit for purpose, then office actions, de-sysopping, enabling global sysop actions and even incubation of the wiki should be on the table. SITH (talk) 10:34, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

• Comment -- It seems to me that each of these accounts (Cekli829, Azerifactory ) is used by several users. I wrote about it ( [8], [9] ). They did not answer. Other managers did not comment on that, perhaps, they consider it normal. But according to the rules these user accounts should be immediately canceled. Çim Çen In (talk) 12:07, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
  • • • Comment -- Dear Admins, this is baseless slander accusation by puppetsock of user Çim Çen In named "Aydin Mammadov", which violated billions of times rules in Azerbaijani wiki but feel free to do IP check on me and on this user. --Azerifactory (talk) 16:48, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment @Rschen7754, Winged Blades of Godric, and StraussInTheHouse: what do you think about these ([10] and [11])? I think @Azerifactory: should also be checked as he accused several users of being or using sockpuppet accounts. --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 17:22, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment @Azerifactory: unclear and ungrounded slander may not be accepted. We look forward to seeing you. Try to prove what you are saying. What prevents you? Çim Çen In (talk) 17:40, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

A general comment about sockpuppetry: please read the CU policy, and if you think that a check is warranted, go to SRCU. SRCU is not a vending machine and you cannot just request checks on random people and have them done. You must prove your case. --Rschen7754 18:24, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

Rschen7754, thank you. Also could you tell me, are Aykhan Zayedzadeh and Çim Çen In will be punished for false accusations and abusive behaviour towards me? Just read his last comments, absolutely slander after slander.--Azerifactory (talk) 23:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)

• Note that @Azerifactory: is the one making "false accusations" and showing "abusive behaviour". --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 08:21, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

I don't know, I am not an admin on Meta, so you will have to ask at RFH. --Rschen7754 00:26, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

@Azerifactory: What is wrong with your partner – and why? Why don't you answer these questions? Is someone's behaviour towards you bullying or just challenging? Çim Çen In (talk) 01:42, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

@Azerifactory: I have another question. Why did you block Çim Çen In at 16:50, 9 May 2019? --Rschen7754 04:05, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Weird. Has been blocked as a sock of this user. Might be except that the claimed master had edited only twice, before being blocked for socking and the log-entry does not link to any other user/discussion. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 06:09, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

@Winged Blades of Godric: That user, and some others on this discussion page are sockpuppets of Aydinsalis, globally banned in az-wiki by WMF for threats to users' life. We all in az-wiki know his style of discussion. That guy has psychological problems and even duplication of personality. You can find his discussion threads even in Jimbo's talk page with accusations that Jimbo sold Wikipedia to the governments of some countries :) His other sockpuppets with a high probability are Ayan Bəkirov and Garabekir. And "Aydın Məmmədov" is his real name.--Wertuose (talk) 10:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

@Wertuose: Facts have been submitted. It is impossible to refute the facts by slandering. Please talk about the main issue. Are you ready for that? Çim Çen In (talk) 13:58, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

@Wertuose: This is a rather dumb way of handling globally banned users. If that is really a globally banned user, you should not be blocking the user but asking WMF (ca at wikimedia dot org) to globally lock the account so they are blocked from all wikis. They also have access to CheckUser and private information and can make a much better determination than you can of sockpuppetry. --Rschen7754 18:23, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

•  Strong support -- Bir neçə yerdə, ən sonda burada yazdım ki, Cekli829 hesabından azı iki nəfər istifadə edir. Yazdım ki, bu redaktə, qəzet kolleksiyaçısı olan şəxsin redaktəsinə bənzəmir. Tərxan Paşazadə qəzet işində mütəxəssisdir, o, belə səhv edə bilməzdi. Burada qərəzli bir şey də yoxdur, təhqir də yoxdur ki deyim qisas məqsədi ilə edilib. Bəs onda bu redaktəni kim edib? Cekli829 hesabından Tərxan Paşazadədədən başqa kim istifadə edir? Amma heç bir reaksiya olmadı. Cekli829 bundan sonra üzə çıxmadı, bir kəlmə belə yazmayıb. Eyni, belə bir iddianı Azerifactorya qarşı da irəli sürdüm, o da cavab vermədi. İdarəçilər isə buna normal yanaşırlar. Aydın Məmmədov haqqında bir neçə kəlmə, xəstədir, həkimlər dedi 1 aydan çox yaşamayacaq. O öləndən sonra istifadəçiləri bloklamaq üçün yeni ideyalar axtarıb tapmaq lazımdır. Dünən görməyə getmişdim, mənə bir nağıl danışdı. Mən bunu ciddi hesab etmirəm, amma ola bilsin, Cekli829, Wertuose və bəziləri bunu ciddi hesab etsinlər. Biri vardı, biri yoxdu. Azərbaycan dilində Vikipediyada bir bürokrat vardı. İstifadəçi adı Sortilegus idi. Bu zahirdə peyğmbər kimi idi. Bir adamı belə bloklamazdı. Amma kim onunla kiçik bir mübahisə edərdisə, anasından əmdiyi südü burnundan tökdürərdi. Başqa hesablar vasitəsi ilə. Aydın Məmmədova qarşı Səfər Azerini və Keretini göndərmişdi, onu bloklatmaq üçün. Səfər azerinin hesabı ilə başqalarının da anadan əmdiyi südü burnundan töküb. Amma Aydın Məmmədov deyəndə ki sən onları müdafiə etmisən, dedi yox, sübut istədi, sübut ortaya qoyulmasın deyə başqa idarəçi hesabı ilə onu bloklatdırdı. Aləm dəyib bir-birinə. İş respublika prokurorluğuna qədər gedib çıxıb, Aydın Məmmədovu bloklayan idarəçi etiraf edib ki, bunu Sortilegus edib, bloku açıb, razılaşıblar ki müzakirə başlasın. Aydın Məmmədovun hansı qaydanı pozduğu aydınlaşdırılsın. O bloku açıb, Cekli829 bloklayıb, açıb Cekli829 yenidən bloklayıb, niyə? Çünki müzakirə etmək üçün heç nə yox idi. Aydın Məmmədov nə demişdisə düz demişdi. İş yenə böyüyüb, hətta örtada ölüm hadisəsinin olması da mümkün idi. Cekli829 ən yaxın adamını, bir ağsaqqalı Aydın Məmmədovun yanına göndərib ki, mənlik deyil, Sortilegusdur, o deyir, mən də bloklayıram. Get başqa bir hesab aç, fəaliyyət göstər, mənim səninlə işim olayacaq, söz verirəm.

Cənablar, nə qədər ki, Sortilegus buradadır anamızdan əmdiyimiz süd burnumuzdan töküləcək. Dünən Səfərin etdiyini bu gün Cekli829 edir, Azerifactory edir, bunları qovacaqsınız, başqaları edəcək, çünki bir xəstə oturub Vikipediyanın başında belə işlər planlaşdırır. Hamının da ondan zəhləsi gedir. Göydən üç alma düşdü... Çim Çen In (talk) 12:27, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

Comment -- Hesab edirəm ki, Cekli829 Sortilegus, Wertuose, Azerifactory NMW03 hesablarının IP ləri yoxlanılarsa bəzi şeylər üzə çıxa bilər. Bəlkə Kozi adı ilə yazan Sortilegus özü olub? Cekli829un nəyinə gərəkdir Sortilegusu dəstəyləyir? Hamı kimi Cekli829un da ondan zəhləsi gedir. Ən yaxşısı bütün idarəçilərin getməsi, yeni heyətdə Sortilegus, Wertuose olmamasıdır. Çim Çen In (talk) 12:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

• @Çim Çen In:, if you suspect, you can check it--NMW03 (talk) 13:05, 10 May 2019 (UTC)

@Rschen7754: can a steward review my block? I'am not acquanted with any of them so can you ping one, please? --► Sincerely: A¥×aᚢ Zaÿïþzaþ€ ⚔ (hail sithis!) 13:52, 10 May 2019 (UTC)