Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Logudorese Sardinian

submitted	verification	final decision

	Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. *Votes will be ignored* when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them** (see the Language proposal policy). The language committee needs to verify the language is eligible to be approved. Check that the project does not already exist (see list). Obtain an ISO 639 code Ensure the requested language is sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki. Ensure that there are a sufficient number of native editors of that language to merit an edition in that language.

The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:

What	Value	Example / Explanation

Proposal
Language code	src (SIL, Glottolog)	A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name	Logudorese Sardinian	Language name in English
Language name	sardu logudoresu	Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item	Q777974 - item has currently the following values: English label: Logudorese native label (P1705): instance of (P31)/subclass of (P279): standard language / Sardinian Wikimedia language code (P424): writing system (P282): number of speakers, writers, or signers (P1098):	Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality	LTR	Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links		Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL	src.wikipedia.org	langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name	Wikipèdia	"Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace		usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace		"Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads	no	Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons. If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin"). Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo		This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone	Europe/Sardinia	"Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces		For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings		Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

Proposal

Logudorese Sardinian (Sardinian: sardu logudoresu, Italian: sardo logudorese) is one of the two written standards of the Sardinian language, which is often considered one of the most, if not the most conservative of all Romance languages. The orthography is based on the spoken dialects of central northern Sardinia.

The area of Logudoro in which it is spoken, is a northern subregion of the island of Sardinia with close ties to Ozieri and Nuoro for culture and language, as well as history, with important particularities in the western area, where the most important town is Ittiri. It is an area of roughly 150 × 100 km with some 500,000–700,000 inhabitants. --Sirmio Cabinigre 20:10, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

@Fausta Samaritani: Then, what will happen for Sardinian Wikipedia (scwiki) which uses a macrolanguage code? I saw two Sardinian dialects Sassarese and Campidanese on Incubator, if Logudorese is to be created separately, then scwiki will probably only serve the remain one Gallurese (sdn), right? Or scwiki should nominate for closure so that Gallurese test should also be separately created? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:26, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We must consider the history of Sardinia, where different peoples lived: Phoenicians, Romans, Ligurians, Catalans, Italians etc. In Sardinia there are different languages and often Sardinians living in different places do not understand each other. We must respect these language differences and create individual wikis for each language that has a code.--Sirmio Cabinigre 09:41, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(rientro) Uno studio interessante di Fiorenzo Toso (che insegna Linguistica ll'Università di Sassari) è I sardi che non parlano il sardo. La Sardegna è ricca di lingue, ognuna con proprio Vocabolario, con testi di letteratura, di canzoni, di teatro. Ma qui ho visto confusioni. A esempio:

The Wikipedia project in Sardu campidanesu - Lìngua sarda campidanesa - Lingua Campidanese (Wp/sro) [1] has already many pages and many categories, but it has a problem: the portal of translatewiki [2] contains an error, because there is the writing sro: Logudorese Sardinian, sardu logudoresu. Logudorese (src) is another language of Sardinia and has its own portal on translatewiki [3], where there is the error that refers to Campidanese; but Logudorese does not yet have a wikipedia project (Wp/src).

Campidanese is not an enabled language [4] and a request is now made to enable it.

Se non si interviene, distinguendo Campidanese da Logudorese su [translatewiki.net] non si va da nessuna parte e il progetto Wikipedia del Campidanese, che è partito e ha già 120 voci di testo, prima o poi è destinato ad arenarsi. --Sirmio Cabinigre 11:53, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'd love to invite scwiki administrators @Dk1919 Franking, Elcaracol, and L2212: to answer most of concerns you asked. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:55, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Toso’s sentence and study is about the other Sardinian languages (Sassarese, Gallurese, Tabarchin and Catalan) not about Sardinian. Those are different things, even if they are often incorrectly grouped together. The Campidanese Wikipedia didn’t have a single article up until the moment @Sirmio Cabinigre, a user that doesn't know neither Sardinian nor any other Sardinian language, started creating empty or almost-empty articles by copying and pasting the same templates and phrases (for example, creating the articles about the years and the day of a year). Which of course is fine to do, if that is not the only kind of articles of a wiki. She already asked about it on our Tzilleri, and everyone there (including the users that write using the Campidanese orthography too), refused her invitation to work there instead of on sc.wiki. On sc. wiki we can already write using the LSC, Logudorese, Campidanese and Nuorese orthographies, and developed templates and rules to work with that, and there are already hundreds of articles for every one of those orthographies. I see absolutely no reason to divide Sardinian, a single language, in two or more smaller wikis (sc.wiki is unfortunately small enough), even more if no one who speaks that language is interested in working on those. L2212 (talk) 17:51, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Limba Sarda Comuna, which used in Sardinian Wikipedia, is based mainly on Logudorese dialect. Would it satisfy rule The language must be sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a more general wiki. In most cases, this excludes regional dialects and different written forms of the same language of Language proposal policy? --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 13:24, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The Limba Sarda Comuna orthography (that is actually closer to "mesania" dialects compared to ones from Logudoro) is used for templates and service pages, for the articles we can use Limba Sarda Comuna, Campidanesu, Nugoresu and Logudoresu. We have already developed templates and rules that allow us to use all of these orthographies together. L2212 (talk) 17:58, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Avete creato su Wikipedia in lingua sarda oltre un centinaio di voci doppie, che terminano con /Campidanese e sono scritte in questa lingua: sono esatti doppioni di altre voci identiche, ma scritte in sardo. Queste voci che hanno /Campidanese a fine del titolo sono state collegate su Wikidata, creando pagine Wikidata doppie e che quindi non possono avere collegamento interprogetto, né collegamento controllo di autorità che va invece alla voci wikidata regolari, di analogo argomento. Stessa cosa è stata fatta per la variante linguistica sarda Logudorese, con cui sono state create voci doppione che terminano con /Logudorese e che sono collegate a voci Wikidata doppione e di cui già esisteva una voce Wikidata regolare. Anche in questo caso nessuna possibilità di avere interprogetto e controllo di autorità che vanno alla voce regolare, in particolare il collegamento a Commons, in automatico. Mi chiedo poi a chi vanno i link interni alla wiki: alla voce in sardo oppure a quella in campidanese, o a quella in logudorese? Questo modo di procedere non è regolare ed è necessario trasferire queste voci doppione nei progetti in prova, oggi al Campidanese e domani, spero, al Logudorese. In quanto alle voci degli anni e dei giorni dell'anno si tratta dell'ossatura di una Wiki che si prevede possa crescere in modo armonico. Sono utilissime perché possono contenere link a nome/cognome di personalità di ogni campo, con date e luogo di nascita/morte, voci inserite non in automatico e quindi utili a diforfanizzare voci biografiche e di località già esistenti e a crearne di nuove. Le immagini (ne inserisco in grande quantità) hanno didascalia utile ad identico scopo, perché contengono link a monumenti, a musei ecc. Da queste nuove voci biografiche, di località ecc. si può agevolmente partire per creare nuove voci, in una gamma enorme di argomenti differenti fra loro. Sono entrata nel progetto in Sassarese a metà agosto 2021, quando aveva 151 voci e non pochi problemi (voci orfane, voci non categorizzate, voci prive di link a voci analoghe in Wiki fuori da Incubator - come è espressamente richiesto - voci estremamente scempie, ecc.) Oggi ha 1.276 voci reali e una buona dose di category. Se poi desiderate conoscere che cosa viene creato in altri progetti Wikipedia attualmente in Incubator, consultate questo elenco, fatto in base al numero di bytes: [5]. Le voci da me create sono tutte ben sopra 500 bytes. Consultate l'elenco e ditemi quante ce ne sono, in Incubator, con numero minore di 500 bytes: 15.000?... 20.000? Io al numero 5.000 mi sono fermata e ero arrivata a 55 bytes. Un saluto--Sirmio Cabinigre 20:14, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]