Talk:Bombing of the Gaza Strip (2023–present)
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Did you know nomination
edit- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Narutolovehinata5 talk 11:33, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- ... that Israel's bombing of Gaza has been compared to history's most destructive bombing campaigns, including the bombings of Dresden and Cologne? Source: Financial Times
- ALT1: ... that the Israeli military is using an artificial intelligence system dubbed "the Gospel" to select targets for its Bombing of Gaza? Source: The Guardian
- Reviewed: [[]]
Created by CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk). Self-nominated at 07:41, 22 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Bombing of Gaza; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
- General eligibility:
- New enough:
- Long enough: - Not met, per WP:DYKSPLIT
- Other problems: -
Splits from non-new articles are ineligible, but if the copied text does not exceed one-fifth of the total prose size, the article can be considered eligible as a fivefold expansion of the copied text.
Policy compliance:
- Adequate sourcing:
- Neutral: - There is a lot of imprecise language: "Experts stated", "Experts warned", "Public health experts", unqualified uses of "large" etc. Needs a thorough copyedit.
- Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
- Other problems: - Combined with the above imprecise language throughout, the article needs a thorough copy edit.
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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QPQ: Done. |
Overall: Unfortunately, this article is currently ineligible for DYK as the majority of its content has been sourced from other Wikipedia articles, and as far as I can tell the 5x expansion requirement for this kind of DYK has not been met. My recommendation is to nominate the article at GA as this would mean the article would meet the third newness clause: promoted to good article status;
Seddon talk 22:53, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
Article title
editDoes anyone besides me think that the title "Bombing of the Gaza Strip" implies that this is the first or only time Gaza Strip was bombed? Should it be something more specific, like "Bombing of the Gaza Strip (2023-present)"? Or should the scope of the article (under the current title) be expanded to include all bombings of the Gaza Strip? In which case the lead should say that the current bombing is the worst but not the first. Or is it fine the way it is? Levivich (talk) 04:02, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- I think this entire article is redundant- the bombing is part of the current war, for which there is already more than one article - Israel–Hamas war, Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip (2023–present) Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 11:11, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed, a time context should be added. Completely disagree on the claim that this article is redundant since it has received significant coverage in RS and fulfills the WP:Notability guideline. Makeandtoss (talk) 16:17, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- It received coverage as part of the coverage of the war. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 16:38, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: I understand you think this article shouldn't exist, but do you oppose a move to Bombing of the Gaza Strip (2023-present)? Levivich (talk) 02:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- no, though I think "-present" is problematic, as eventually, the bombing will stop. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 05:59, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Moved to Bombing of the Gaza Strip (2023–present). Levivich (talk) 16:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree with the move. We eventually dropped the time disambiguator from both Israel-Hamas war and Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, owing to their overwhelming significance. Sure Israel has bombed Gaza before, but nothing before this has approached the level of destruction.VR (Please ping on reply) 02:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Levivich @Makeandtoss what do you think? Alternatively we can rename to Bombing in the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. Hoping we can reach consensus.VR (Please ping on reply) 15:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Israeli Bombing of the Gaza Strip seems more concise. Makeandtoss (talk) 08:16, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- No objection from me if anyone wants to move it to a new title and/or open an RM. Levivich (talk) 14:17, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Israeli Bombing of the Gaza Strip seems more concise. Makeandtoss (talk) 08:16, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Levivich @Makeandtoss what do you think? Alternatively we can rename to Bombing in the Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip. Hoping we can reach consensus.VR (Please ping on reply) 15:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- I disagree with the move. We eventually dropped the time disambiguator from both Israel-Hamas war and Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip, owing to their overwhelming significance. Sure Israel has bombed Gaza before, but nothing before this has approached the level of destruction.VR (Please ping on reply) 02:41, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: I understand you think this article shouldn't exist, but do you oppose a move to Bombing of the Gaza Strip (2023-present)? Levivich (talk) 02:23, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- It received coverage as part of the coverage of the war. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 16:38, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
Israeli disinformation
edit@XDanielx: Ynet is not an independent source, it is making an exceptional claim, and explicitly says that the 16% figure was only shown to Ynet. Why did you remove the better source tag? Clearly there are numerous problems with this piece of disinformation refuted by independent RS. Makeandtoss (talk) 16:24, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- Ynet is a mainstream newspaper, and is independent. It is not making any exceptional claim just reprotign what the IDF says. The 16% figure was quoted by Ynet, Times of Israel, JNS and many others. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 16:30, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: All the sources you mentioned are not independent. WP defines independence as "An independent source is a source that has no vested interest in a given Wikipedia topic and therefore is commonly expected to cover the topic from a disinterested perspective." WP:IIS
- They are indeed exceptional claims that have been refuted by independent RS which cite at least 50% of housing has been damaged. Makeandtoss (talk) 16:39, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- You can take this nonsense to WP:RSN and see how much support you get for the notion that a mainstream newspaper, with a known editorial board and a reputation for fact checking is not independent just because it is based in a country that is involved in a conflict, or because its editors are Jewish. Good luck. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 16:46, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: Nobody said anything about editorial independence. WP defines independence as having no vested interest, which is clearly not the case here. I am not taking anything anywhere, the onus of achieving consensus lies on the inserter, and that is yourself. As for the "nonsense" and the veiled implicit accusation of antisemitism, this is battleground behavior and assumption of bad faith, both of which are not lightly taken in this topic area, so I request you to retract these comments now before taking this further. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:19, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Vested interest is defined at WP:IIS as "when the source (the author, the publisher, etc.) develops any financial or legal relationship to the topic." None of the sources I listed (Ynet, ToI, JNS) has any such financial or legal relationship to the war in Gaza. Enough of this nonsense, please. Take this to WP:RS where others will set you straight. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 15:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- Gladly, SPI set you straight. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:14, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- Vested interest is defined at WP:IIS as "when the source (the author, the publisher, etc.) develops any financial or legal relationship to the topic." None of the sources I listed (Ynet, ToI, JNS) has any such financial or legal relationship to the war in Gaza. Enough of this nonsense, please. Take this to WP:RS where others will set you straight. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 15:48, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Kentucky Rain24: Nobody said anything about editorial independence. WP defines independence as having no vested interest, which is clearly not the case here. I am not taking anything anywhere, the onus of achieving consensus lies on the inserter, and that is yourself. As for the "nonsense" and the veiled implicit accusation of antisemitism, this is battleground behavior and assumption of bad faith, both of which are not lightly taken in this topic area, so I request you to retract these comments now before taking this further. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:19, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
- You can take this nonsense to WP:RSN and see how much support you get for the notion that a mainstream newspaper, with a known editorial board and a reputation for fact checking is not independent just because it is based in a country that is involved in a conflict, or because its editors are Jewish. Good luck. Kentucky Rain24 (talk) 16:46, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
- The claim is attributed to Israel, so I don't really understand the reasoning for this unusually heavy scrutiny of the source. But in any case, Ynet News is clearly reliable. It's a child entity of Yedioth Ahronoth, Israel's largest newspaper. A quick search of RSN shows many mentions of Ynet, and very few concerns about its reliability.
- It seems like your argument is that there's some bias which violates independence. I don't think's how WP:IIS is meant to be interpreted - it says
A source can be biased without compromising its independence
. Besides, Ynet is probably one of the least biased sources in this article, which relies heavily on Al Jazeera. — xDanielx T/C\R 16:47, 7 July 2024 (UTC)- @XDanielx: Yedioth Ahronoth is notorious for being a Netanyahu mouthpiece though: "In January 2017, secret recordings were released of conversations between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Mozes discussing a potential deal in which the newspaper would provide better coverage of Netanyahu in exchange for the government limiting the circulation of competitor Israel Hayom." from its own article. That just proves my point about the lack of independence.. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:15, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 June 2024
editThis edit request to Bombing of the Gaza Strip has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Israel's bombing campaign of the Gaza Strip began within hours of Hamas militants and their allies entering into Israel. The citation (10) does not match/support the statement.
It should read: Oct. 7, 2023: Air raid sirens begin sounding in Jerusalem around 6:30 a.m. local time, warning citizens of the attack in progress and to immediately take cover. An estimated 2,200 rockets were fired toward southern and central Israel, including Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, by the Hamas militants. Armed Hamas terrorists and citizens of Gaza, many on motorcycles, storm blockaded areas, shooting at and slaughtering people in kibbutzim and small towns. Video footage surfaces of Hamas militants taking people -- including mothers, small children, and the elderly -- hostage and carrying them across the Gaza border.[1] Over 1,200 people were murdered in Israel, citizens and non-citizens alike, and over 200 people were taken hostage [1]
Israel's air raid response began on Oct. 17. [2] Ewereallythinkthat (talk) 09:23, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
- Not done Citation does support statement. Relevant quotation from the 7 October 2023 New York Times article reads: "Hamas fired thousands of rockets toward Israeli cities, and Palestinian militants crossed into southern Israel, killing civilians and holding Israelis hostage.
Israel retaliated with major strikes across the blockaded Gaza Strip, leveling multistory buildings, including a residential building with approximately 100 units."[1] CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 21:30, 24 June 2024 (UTC)- It seems like a fair point that
within hours
doesn't appear to be backed up by the NYT article, though, no? — xDanielx T/C\R 22:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)- That's actually a really good point. The Times didn't give a timeline of the day. I'll edit that. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 23:56, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
- It seems like a fair point that
References
- ^ a b https://abcnews.go.com/International/timeline-surprise-rocket-attack-hamas-israel/story?id=103816006. Retrieved 18 June 2024.
{{cite web}}
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(help) Cite error: The named reference "CNN" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page). - ^ "CNN". Retrieved 18 June 2024.
- Bumping thread. Left guide (talk) 21:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)