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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lists of people on postage stamps

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Natg 19 (talk) 23:24, 14 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of people on postage stamps

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Lists of people on postage stamps (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This list does not meet the guidelines for lists, in that we do not have reliable sources that cover the topic as a dsintinct group. It has existed since May 10, 2002 so for over 20 years, yet it has no sources at all. We have deleted a lot of the previous lists linked, so having a list of the lists remaining is not very useful. There is a category, so I see no reason to have a list even if some of the lists remain. This list is unsourced, and the dates are just when the places issued stamps, if we want to list that, we can with a general lists of when places issued stamps, we do not have to link it to this topic. Also, if we dicided a general overview article on trends in who is portrayed on postage stamps, considering the subject on a global scale, actually is warranted, than we can create such an article, but this list is not really a useful vehicle to start such an article, especially since it lacks any sources at all. John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:32, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. People appearing on postage stamps seems like a notable topic, that is covered in very many sources in a significant way. Here are some of the easier to find examples:
  1. https://www.npr.org/2011/09/26/140802801/living-people-to-appear-on-stamps-for-first-time
  2. Beleck, M. (2017). Noted Jewish People of the World on Stamps: A Collection of Stamps Issued by Over 95 Countries in the World. United States: CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform.
  3. Yardley, C. B. (2014). The Representation of Science and Scientists on Postage Stamps: A science communication study. Australia: ANU Press.
  4. https://www.ceeol.com/search/article-detail?id=950014
  5. https://muse.jhu.edu/article/377286
To say there is a lot of academic and literature sources suggesting that people featuring on postage stamps is a topic of interest to many would be an under statement. CT55555 (talk) 16:40, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I now see that this is a sort of lists of lists, which seems useful. The idea that each of the lists is not notable seems speculative. CT55555 (talk) 16:55, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sources above might support an article like Trends in people appearing on postage stamps, but that is not what this article is.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:36, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    These are sources about people on postage stamps. They show that the topic of people on postage stamps is notable. If this was a list about fires in France, and I had a book about 1990s fires in France and another book about 1980s fires in France, that would be legitimate proof that the topic was notable, even though they did not cover every fire. You've proposed to delete a topic that is so massively wide, that no one book is likely to cover it all. If someone proposed to delete the USA article, nobody would find a book that covered everything about USA, they should show books that covered different parts of it. This is the same dilemma you have created by proposing to delete such a huge topic. CT55555 (talk) 20:02, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The first source "Living people to appear on postage stamps for the first time" is Myopically about the US. The first person ever on a postage stamp ever was Queen Victoria, who was then alive. There are places that only ever put living rulers on postage stamps. That source is A-not in any way giving a complete list, and B-to the extent it can support any article, it supports an article on poeple on United States postage stamps. It cannot be used to support a broad worldwide article, because it is myopically about the US and flies in the actual history of postage stamps, which is that for about half of their use if not more, most countries had as the only person they would put on their stamps either the current monarch or that monarchs consort. I might be slightly exagerating the scope, but clearly there were many living people on postage stamps before 2011.John Pack Lambert (talk) 19:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    NPR is a good source for judging notability, irrespective of the validity of your critique of their analysis. And it's not unreasonable to assume that a "national" news outlet might not be taking a global perspective on its output. CT55555 (talk) 20:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • This is an article that should be global in scope. To justify a global article we need global coverage. Plus the article is just about a change in policy in who can be placed on US stamps. That people care about what such policies are does not demonstrate we need an article listing every single such person. Even if we need articles on some countries full list of such persons, those articles can and are grouped by a category. Having some articles does not mean we need to have an article linking those articles.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:43, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      I don't agree that we need global coverage. I think we just need to demonstrate the notability of the exact thing "people on postage stamps". I think I've done that. That said there is a magnificently huge volume of books on postage stamps and clearly many of them include significant content on people who appear on them. WP:BEFORE puts the onus on your to search for that before you nominate, so please take a look at the results that come from your searches and I think you'll see that this is not just notable, but exceptionally notable. CT55555 (talk) 21:30, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • except this is not a general article on tends in who is put on postage stamps, it is a list of list articles. A general article on broad tends in who is put on postage stamps may be supported by the sources you list, but that is not what this article is.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:41, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
        Maybe another way to look at it: is the content notable?, i.e. are the lists that this list contains notable. As they exist on wikipedia, that surely suggests they are notable. Or am I missing something? CT55555 (talk) 13:50, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. This is a notable topic, with significant coverage in reliable sources. Here are just two instances of such coverage in scholarly publications.[1][2] Turgidson (talk) 21:21, 7 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Interesting argument. I don't think they would support lists, but they could be used for articles such as Postage stamps and postal history of Mexico and Scientists on postage stamps. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:12, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Undignified campaigning against a whole topic, based on quasi-arguments. --Orland (talk) 20:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep It is likely that all of the remaining lists will be deleted, but there are other lists such as Women on US stamps. When all of the lists are deleted, this list of lists will be eligible for speedy deletion per A3, and it does not require an AfD right now. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 14:20, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Jones, Robert A. (2001). "Heroes of the Nation? The Celebration of Scientists on the Postage Stamps of Great Britain, France and West Germany". Journal of Contemporary History. 36 (3): 403–422.
  2. ^ Henio Pablo Luis Hoyo Prohuber (2013). Postage Stamps as Carriers of National Imaginaries (PDF) (Thesis). Florence: European University Institute.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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