Talk:Portuguese/Contents

Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese

I am against two different textbooks. I think it will be better to use only one textbook and point the differences. User:Marlosfabris 02:06, 06 Oct 2006 (UTC)

Couldn't agree more. We are talking about a begginer's course here, diferences in spelling and use of words isn't big enough to justify such a thing, really. - anon - 30 August 2006

I'm very happy there is something like a portuguese and a Brazilian book. I have a portuguese girlfriend, and I've noticed that one is easily corrected as "noo, you don't say that, that's brazilian, not portuguese." In fact, I'm happy because this is one of the few sources on portuguese from Portugal. Mindyou 17:17, 26 Nov 2007

Heh. I have a girlfriend who tells me "noo, you don't say that, that's portuguese, not brazilian portuguese." I don't know if this is a good strong argument for having separate language learning books. It certainly seems like the two sides regard their dialects as very different when you ask them about it. The question is, is there enough of a difference? Is it worth the extra effort and dilution of collaboration, to build two different sets of lessons? I think we're seeing the answer. Different people get excited about developing different sets of lessons. They might have progressed further if they had worked together somehow, but then at least one of them probably wouldn't have got so excited about it in the first place.

In any case the horse has bolted. We have a split. It would be a lot of effort to undo that and merge back into one Brazilian & Portuguese set of lessons. But there is some merging that we do need to do because of the separate Brazilian Portuguese wikibook (following discussion)

-- Harry Wood (talk) 13:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Separate wikibook Brazilian Portuguese

There is now an entirely separate wikibook Brazilian Portuguese (The above comments pre-date this) This means that we now have three sets of lessons planned out, and some confusing duplication which, in my opinion, we should definitely resolve. Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese/Contents#Courses for Portuguese spoken in Brazil are both sets of Brazilian Portuguese lessons. They have quite different styles, but nonetheless, their missions overlap too much and this just creates confusion.

I'm not really sure what the best solution is...

Option A: remove Portuguese/Contents#Courses for Portuguese spoken in Brazil, merging into Brazilian Portuguese wikibook

Option B: remove Brazilian Portuguese wikibook, merging to Portuguese/Contents#Courses for Portuguese spoken in Brazil

To be clear... I'm not proposing a merge between Brazilian Portuguese and Portuguese Portuguese (That's a different discussion above)

Option A leaves this wikibook being entirely Portuguese Portuguese. A clean separation. We'd have to build and maintain all sections of the book separately for both dialects (Not just the lessons, but vocab lists and appendices). Option B involves removing a wikibook, which maybe would require some special procedure? (actually looking at the non-existent procedures for starting a wikibook... I guess not) This option involves bringing all content together in this wikibook, which would allow us to share some sections, but then some vocab words would be different in the different dialects I presume, so maybe that's not all that useful.

I'm kind of favouring Option A, but I think we also need some prominent labels to encourage awareness of parallel efforts between the two wikibooks.

-- Harry Wood (talk) 01:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikiversity courses

I've just come across Wikiversity Topic:Portuguese - Two more different courses on our sister site Wikiversity.

Don't know how the Wikiversity and WikiBooks communities deal with such crossovers normally but... well this follows nice from the above discussion on duplicated wiki effort and proliferation of different courses!

-- Harry Wood (discuss • contribs) 15:21, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciations

Would it be possible to include pronunciations with the words, at least for the earlier lessons? Better yet, a link to a sound file (say, in .ogg format) so you could hear the correct pronunciation of words. Mraj 08:35 EDT, 15 May 2006

Being a native speaker myself, I wouldn't mind giving you a hand in such a complex matter. I can record sound files if you need to, fix the grammar, etc. As for the differences in European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese, I believe different textbooks should be kept, in order to avoid the unnecessary hassle for those getting started with this new language. SourceCode 16:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I am willing to do so if someone teaches me how to do it. I'm Brazilian, hope it is the variety you are learning. - anon - 26 October 2006

de:Portugiesisch cooperation

I have created the German page for learning Portuguese. We can save time by cooperating. Get-back-world-respect 00:13, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Commonly used adjectives & adverbs

I am not sure if it is a good idea to have pages for "commonly used adjectives" and "commonly used adverbs" in portuguese separately since so many words can be used as both. -- Get-back-world-respect 09:01, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It's likely best to have a separate section for the copula; especially considering that Portuguese, as Spanish, has two verbs 'to be' and these are a point of difficulty for learners of Portuguese as a foreign language. Let me see what I can cook up. --Wtrmute 15:02, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Introductory section

I am wondering, would it be wise to have an introductory section, for example, a getting started page with phrases like "Bom dia", "boa tarde", "boa noite"... that you need to start speaking? And perhaps a bit about Brazillian Portuguese?

--Jonojet 31 October 2004

Lesson structure

As it stands this is really a guide to Portuguese grammar, not the actual language? Should we restructure this to resemble the Spanish or French wikibooks where each lesson contains a little grammar, vocab, pronunctiation etc?

-- anonymous 23 February 2005

I really think that this should be more of a coursebook (like the Spanish, French, German Wikibooks). That is, I second the above. - anon 12 April 2005

OK, what about this for a lesson plan? I'll try to create Lesson One to show you what I mean

Theme eg. sport, eating out

Useful phrases

(One or at most two points of grammer

One or two verbs to learn

About 10-20 related vocabulary words.

Examples

Exercises (with answers)

-User:Serge - 16 April 2005

It looks okay, but what are we going to do about dialect issues? Should we present Brazil Portuguese and Portugal Portuguese simultaneously and mark the differences (like many English-language Portuguese courses) or should we make separate courses for the different dialects? -- anon 11 May 2005

I've added a picture and prettied up a little - User:Serge 27 May 2005

Hey guys, no-one seems to be showing much interest in expanding this book, so I've tried to make it a little better. I've planned level one, and I hope it's not too packed with grammar. One thing we have to be careful of is introducing too much grammar too quickly. Also try to use very little grammatical terms, (I know I've used too much) and introduce things slowly. I think it's better if we structure the lessons so that vocabulary can be introduced gradually rather than all in one table which is tedious. What does everyone think? (P.S) I know lesson One is a bit awful (sorry) but please feel free to try to make it more user friendly...Hope everyone likes what's been going on... --Serge 31 May 2005

Sorry to intrude, I think you should abstract the problem from the book structure, consider providing information on Portuguese in general and point the particulars, you could even leave space for other Portuguese speaking communities (PALOP) to participate, if you just keep stuff with a distinct legend so a reader and future editors can treat the content.--Panic 02:36, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Expanding Out

OK, here's the drill. I've planned fifteen lessons for our course. Here is a list of what could be covered in each lesson. But in the great spirit of the Wiki please please make adjustements because I'm far from a teacher.

• Lesson 1 - Saying Hello - Introductions and Greetings, verb 'estar'.
• Lesson 2 - I Like... - Verb 'gostar', adjectives, gender, definite articles.
• Lesson 3 - What Are You Going To Do? - Future using 'ir' and infinitives.
• Lesson 4 - Where Do You Come From? - more on adjectives and plural nouns
• Lesson 5 - Going Shopping - verb 'querar', negation, indefinite articles
• Lesson 6 - The Train - question words
• Lesson 7 - What Time Is It? - Numbers and time.
• Lesson 8 - Meeting People - more introductions, o/a/os/as senhor/a/s, verbs 'saber' and 'conhecer'.
• Lesson 9 - Let's Go Shopping - 'This' and 'that' and 'those', comparisons.
• Lesson 10 - My House - verbs 'ter' and 'haver'

Level 2

• Lesson 11 - The Weekend - verbs in present progressive (Brazilian and Portuguese usage)
• Lesson 12 - Whose Is This? - Possesive adjectives & pronouns
• Lesson 13 - At The Doctor - Body parts, idiomatic uses of 'ter'
• Lesson 14 - Eating Out - Regular 'ar' verbs
• Lesson 15. - The Telephone Call - Regular 'ir' and 'er' verbs.

However I don't have nearly enough time to write this so please - could someone just jump in and write some with me ? Because I seem to be the only one creating content at the moment.

In a lesson we might consider the following approach:

• A dialogue to start off with (or at least sometime during the lesson)
• Some new grammar, which should be covered from a layperson's point of view. Use plenty of examples. BUT (always a but) try (it's hard) not to overload the lesson with too much grammar.
• Explain differences between Portuguese and Brazilian usage
• Point out some grammar
• Give new vocabulary - that is, nouns and adjectives until verb conjugation is introduced (I've deliberately left this until later, because I think in pretty much all actual school courses this is left until more fundemental and easy points are covered). After this new verbs can be added sparingly.
• Until conjugation is introduced, try to give one or two verbs (doesn't necessarily have to be full conjugation of verb yet).
• Point out some pronunciation.
• Exercises. These should be a mix of easy to harder, but all necessary vocab should have been introduced. Make sure it's not always just translations, because these can get monotonous.

Thanks to anyone who wants to help - your support would be fantastico. And if you're not all that keen on doing lessons, please help with grammar appendices and (start a new section if you feel like) vocabulary appendices, including slang. Also, because I can hardly speak any Portuguese myself, please oh please correct mistakes, revise, and improve. Because that's what wiki is all about.

-- Serge 1 July 2005

Missing Orphan page that should belong here

I was rummaging around the Wikibooks orphan pages and I found one that may be useful to you here:

"Portuguese:Commonly used nouns" [since renamed "Portuguese/Contents/Days, Months, Seasons"]

I am not as familiar with the layout of this Wikibook, so I'm going to leave it to the "regulars" on where to put the contents of this Wikibook module. --Rob Horning 17:20, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Audio files

hi,

Unfortunately none of these files are available to listen to.

http://languagelab.bh.indiana.edu/portuguese_p100-p135-p150.html

They are password protected.

anon - 25 November 2005

Second paragraph

Should this paragraph be here ? :

"The Portuguese spoken in Brazil is quite different from the Portuguese spoken in Portugal in that the Brazilians tend to be more liberal with their use of the language. Also, the informal second person pronoun "tu" is almost never used. The word order is slightly different in certain circumstances, as is the preferred synonym for the same word. It is often easier to learn for beginners, and you will still be understood in Portugal."

It looks like it's trying to convince people to learn Brazilian Portuguese instead of European Portuguese. If we really have to keep it, shouldn't it be moved to the Brazilian Portuguese section?

- anon - 30 August 2006

I'm completely rewriting this paragraph because it's biased towards Brazilian Portuguese, it's too vague (what does it even mean to be "liberal" in using a language?) and contains an incorrect statement ("tu" is used very often in dialects in the southern and northeastern regions of Brazil). Hokstein 12:35, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Verbs

I made some tables of the forms of Portuguese irregular verbs in different tenses in the German Wikibook, for instance de:Portugiesisch: Unregelmäßige Verben: Präsens. Links to other tenses can be seen here (tenses of unregelmäßige Verben). Perhaps you might have o look on them. By the way: there is something wrong with your present tense of regular verbs, it's not shown correctly. de:Wau --62.158.50.113 11:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

opening section "Feature word"

In the opening section here. It says "Why not start with the feature word?". What does that mean? -- Harry Wood (talk) 09:24, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Pronounciation

I notice that there is no section for pronounciation, I think this would be particularly helpful, maybe added as an appendix? V85 (talk) 22:32, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

A real effort

A real effort should be made in bringing this up to date with orthographic accord, signed by most nations (I think Angola has not yet signed) but that involves a very limited set of uses. --Panic (discuss • contribs) 00:39, 11 February 2012 (UTC)