Wikijunior talk:Solar System/About weight and gravity

This is an alternate version of the About gravity, mass, and weight module which:

1. Tries to stay simple and succinct (although I realise there's room for improvement, e.g. shorter sentence lengths, fewer subclauses, etc);
2. Does not refer to mass (uses "bulk" or "bulky" instead);
3. Does not refer to force (uses "pull" instead);
4. Does not refer to units;
5. Does not state that weight changes, but rather that (underline emphases added):

"You may've read or heard people say that your weight would be different on the Moon...";

"[the bathroom scale] would say you weighed less than when you weighed yourself with it on the Earth. So people say your weight has changed..."

"it's as if ... you have no weight..."

If people think this approach is a starter then I think a couple of illustrations or diagrams and perhaps a table of what a bathroom scale would say you weighed on other planets would add interest to the page.

David Kernow 02:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

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IMHO (this is a talk page after all, I'm not adding content here), the whole premise that we should avoid units, nor discuss differences between mass and weight is simply a school of thought on this topic, and just one of several approaches. The whole point to this discussion is to describe the effects of a variation of gravity from one place to another. The problem with the previous Wikijunior Solar System/About gravity, mass, and weight is that it violated NPOV standards with no attempt to have a compromise or come to a true neutral point of view on the topic.

This module is a fork of content, and as such will eventually have to be reconsiled and/or merged with the other module. It is fine to try and write another module that gives an alternative point of view seeking compromise and still being technically accurate. Perhaps that is exactly what we need to do: Write several different modules and then try to "vote" on which one is best for inclusion into Wikijunior Solar System. Thanks for trying to be a solution to the problem rather than a cause.--Rob Horning 16:53, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

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good job on this

This is a pretty good start, although i warn that some of the current explanations can be a little bit technical and convoluted (remember, the target audience is children, not feuding, well-educated wikibookians). Although, maybe kids can understand this stuff, i can't remember how smart i was when i was a kid. --Whiteknight _TC^E 15:13, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your encouragement, Whiteknight. I reread the text earlier and agree it could and probably should be further simplified (e.g. shorter sentences, such as for "The Moon, for example, is less bulky than the Earth, so if you weighed yourself there..."). I'd hope, however, that given further simplification, a couple of illustrations and maybe a table, it's nearer an end rather than a start — if, that is, more people think it's worth using. Best wishes, David Kernow 22:50, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Well written -- maybe too much for this book

This is a well-written module. I think it is too much for a book that is supposed to be only 48 pages in total, and which already contains a section on gravity, mass, and weight (Wikijunior Solar System/Solar System#About gravity, mass, and weight).

The book is overloaded. It will soon be large enough to be a textbook for a year-long course in the solar system for elementery students.

Though this section is mostly well-written, I would be happy to remove it entirely. Perhaps it could find a new home in another book. A physics book for children. "Force and Motion -- how things move".

--SV Resolution 12:07, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments, SV Resolution. I agree that its all too easy for Wikijunior books to become overgrown, but this module About weight and gravity is offered as a replacement for About gravity, mass, and weight (or, at least, most of a replacement). I feel a decision needs to be reached as to whether one or other of these modules is included, or none like them at all. I think there's a case for including such a module, as I've already come across areas in the book where it might usefully be referenced, e.g. the Comets module which I have been (but have currently suspended) copyediting. Best wishes, David Kernow 12:26, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I think either About weight and gravity or About gravity, mass, and weight would be too much for this book. Before either of these two sections were begun, there was already a subsection of Wikijunior Solar System/Solar System called About gravity, mass, and weight (sorry for the earlier, confusing typo) --SV Resolution 16:11, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean. I also see the page needs a little formatting attention (e.g. dashes) so I intend to review it. Are there any Wikijunior contributors able to test the Solar System content on some young people, to see what might be missing, boring, over-pitched, etc?  I think this is very important. Unfortunately I am not readily able to do so.

Thanks again for your interest, David Kernow 21:50, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I have had trouble with some of the obtuse language in both this module Wikijunior Solar System/About weight and gravity and Wikijunior Solar System/About gravity, mass, and weight. The latter module (gravity, mass, and weight) contained wording about inertia which I removed (though you can still see in the source - "edit this page").

This module (weight and gravity) was an alternate approach without mentioning mass. But it does mention mass; it uses the word bulky instead of the word mass.

As it is, I have little familiarity with Wikijunior, and I prefer not to claim that these modules are "well-writen". I was wondering if the best solution was to move both modules out of Wikijunior. --Kernigh 04:43, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your input, Kernigh. The consensus, although small, seems to be to include neither module. I'll therefore let some time pass and then, if they're still there, remove mention of the About gravity, mass, and weight and About weight and gravity from the Main modules and Other modules lists. Apologies for not making clear that it was the word "mass" I was aiming not to use, for the sake of younger readers. Best wishes, David Kernow 14:17, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I think this module has merit. I don't think it should be moved out of Wikijunior. Just out of Wikijunior Solar System. "How Things Move" -- dyamics for children.--SV Resolution 01:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)