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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Maykii (talk | contribs) at 01:00, 8 September 2021 (→‎New RFC in the light of the new government announcement: yes). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Former good articleAfghanistan was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 7, 2005Good article nomineeListed
March 6, 2009Good article reassessmentDelisted
September 24, 2019Good article nomineeNot listed
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on August 11, 2004, August 19, 2011, August 19, 2012, August 19, 2016, and August 19, 2020.
Current status: Delisted good article

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Zach4596 (article contribs). This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2018 and 22 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bwiffen1234 (article contribs).

RfC on whether to make the "Afghanistan" article about the Islamic Emirate

A new RFC has been created following the formal declaration of a new government and emirate in Afghanistan please see 'New RFC in the light of the new government announcement' later on this page to comment on it.--Llewee (talk) 15:52, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should the "Afghanistan" article be about the Islamic Emirate (Taliban) government? Chessrat (talk, contributions) 02:08, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This article should remain the parent article for the country with it being updated as needed as has been done in the past when other governments have been formed. Or are you proposing a name change? Why would the article titled Afghanistan not be the parent article? Let's get some experience country article editors here.Moxy- 02:13, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm with Moxy and Chipmunkdavis. I've noticed that the articles on Afghanistan are jumping the gun a bit. Let's slow it down, hold our horses, and wait for the sources to say things before we cause (as if we had the power to do so!) geopolitical realities to emerge. What I'm saying is exactly that of CMD: wait for the sources. They lead; we follow. Don't get ahead of them: after all, we're WP:NOTNEWS. — Javert2113 (Siarad.|¤) 03:32, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Wait until an official surrender. -47.33.186.77 (talk) 04:19, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

47.33.186.77 I would surprised if their ever is an official surrender. Llewee (talk) 04:49, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The islamic emirate/taliban is, whether we like it or not, now effectively in control over the country. Even if no foreign gouvernment is going to be willing to aknowledge their government, de facto they run things now, and our article should reflect the realities on the ground, which is, that the islamic republic is defunct. --1234567891011a (talk) 07:30, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet. This RfC question assumes that the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan will be the name of the new government when the Taliban, Afghan leaders, and the international community are in talks about what the new government will look like, its name, and structure (per TOLO news). Wait for a new government to be declared. I also agree with much of what CMD had to say above. —Danre98(talk^contribs) 21:08, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan have continued to operate as a constant organization during the 20 year civil war [1][2], are flying the same flag over the capital [3], are using the same name [4], and continued to enforce their laws within their territory during the entire war.[5] Due to the cited facts I've laid out:

  • The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan has continued to operate as a government in exile and as such were long since established as a government.
  • The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan currently controls the capital and is the dominant state in the region.
  • Because the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was previously a partially recognized state, it stands to reason that they are currently a partially recognized state unless there are reliable sources showing that nations including Saudi Arabia who are already on record as supporting the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan have ceased to recognize them.
  • Afghanistan should redirect to Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan, or this should be set up as a regional page with the primary page being Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (similar to how China and Mainland China are set up.) The Gentle Sleep (talk) 05:58, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet. And not soon. Obviously the new, current regime should be briefly covered as being now in control of the country, but making any drastic change can wait for some time. We normally highlight the current regime, because typically, in a stable country, the current regime/system of govt. goes back many years, or sometimes centuries. There is a case to be made for the focus of this article to be the instability of the last 30 years - leading obviously to the new regime. That is the broader truth of the country. Pincrete (talk) 17:14, 22 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose/Not yet. Only in the event that the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan becomes widely internationally recognized should this happen. Otherwise, the Afghanistan article should remain the way it is now, with political info split between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and Islamic Republic of Afghanistan articles. Neither should there be a flag at all in Afghanistan because of this. --Weaveravel (talk) 23:46, 23 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose/Not yet. Though it appears that Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan will likely become the government of Afghanistan, the situation is still fluid and it would be best to wait till there is finality. There could also be fractions that emerge that could result in split forms of government or leadership. For these reasons I would recommend to wait before making the change. Jurisdicta (talk) 04:00, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet per Javert2113. Danre98 is also correct when they say that we are making assumptions about what the new government will look like based on a government 20 years ago, which goes against WP:CRYSTAL. Ultimately I think CMD hit the nail on the head when they said, We need a source saying the Taliban has declared their flag the flag of the state, a source on the new government structure. — Czello 06:54, 24 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet It's too early to conclude the kind of regime of the new government. Sea Ane (talk) 21:55, 27 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Not yet - technically the government is till forming, and still negotiating with the resistance in the Panshir region. I think it best to wait. There should be a section on the current Taliban de facto control. Deathlibrarian (talk) 14:55, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Probably but wait - There are some reports coming in that Panjshir has just fallen. If so, then I say yes, otherwise, wait for the situation to play out. If Panjshir does fall in the future (it likely will), then yes, there is no reason not to merge the article on the regime that controls all of Afghanistan with this article. If not, maybe wait a bit for some international recognition. However, long-term we will eventually have to merge these even if no recognition is forthcoming and the Taliban remain in power. If the Taliban are still ruling 10 years from now and we are still pretending that there is any serious question as to who rules Afghanistan we will look ridiculous.--RM (Be my friend) 16:02, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment It now appears that the Taliban have announced a caretaker government. I would suggest this RfC be closed, with new discussions held on the basis on this now emerging information. CMD (talk) 15:29, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/world/middleeast/taliban-flag-is-gone-in-qatar-but-talks-remain-in-doubt.html
  2. ^ https://www.corteidh.or.cr/tablas/r27089.pdf
  3. ^ https://en.thekarmanews.com/removed-afghan-flag-and-hoisted-taliban-flag-at-kabul-palace/
  4. ^ https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/current-affairs-trends/taliban-changes-afghanistans-name-to-islamic-emirate-of-afghanistan-7343041.html
  5. ^ https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/18/woman-whipped-by-the-taliban-over-burqa-without-veil-afghanistan
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Percent of the people in Afghanistan

Hello to the Wikipedia team, It is about the percentage of 100 tribes that there is no reliable source or accurate census in Afghanistan. Therefore, please remove this ridiculous percentage from your page if your site is really neutral.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB16:55:1EDA:C520:FF4F:4FD4:A395 (talk • contribs)

Can you be clearer about which statement exactly you feel needs removing? From what I can see, the data concerning different demographics or tribes appears to be sourced. — Czello 14:47, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 August 2021

Government of Afghanistan is Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. There is no dispute between Islamic Republic of Afghanistan and Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan regarding the authority over Afghanistan. Assange123 (talk) 16:36, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:43, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Change the name of government to Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Assange123 (talk) 10:34, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 September 2021

ISIS needs to be added Worldwar1989 (talk) 07:51, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 09:10, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

technical request (second attempt)

can someone validate the brackets in this page's code? there seems to be an extra "}}" somewhere. when I hover a link to this page that nav pop up is messed up because of those extra brackets. I tried to find them but this is a more daunting task than I realized & I can't quickly find a good editing tool that can "validate" brackets or whatever. thanks. skakEL

(PS I posted this before but someone accidentally deleted it here when trying to archive) skakEL 17:44, 5 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

New RFC in the light of the new government announcement

The Taliban have now formally announced the new government they will establish and declared it an Islamic Emirate.[1] In light of this development should the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan be integrated into this page.--Llewee (talk) 15:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Yes At this point the only thing possibly standing in the way of changing the article over is diplomatic recognition, but every other element of the de facto situation says the Taliban are the sole ruling authority. BSMRD (talk) 16:02, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes to merging the Islamic Emirate article into this page, but pre-emptively saying no to any changes to the title. It does appear that the defacto government is the Emirate. — Czello 16:10, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes My personal view is that information related to the present day Taliban government should be integrated into this article whilst the other page should be changed to Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan (1996-2001) the infobox and all other non-history related political information should be changed to predominantly reflect the new government. Llewee (talk) 16:28, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan article as created focused on a previous specific period of rule. It should not be merged into this page, being a useful and valid page topic within the framework of Afghanistan articles per WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. There is no reason to delete a sub-article on a previous era, nor would it be reasonable per WP:SIZE to merge another large article into this already 78kb of prose article. CMD (talk) 17:04, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Information focused on the 1990s regime could be split into it's own article.--Llewee (talk) 17:11, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • This has already been done. As I mentioned, that topic is the stable intention of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan article. CMD (talk) 17:20, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • You justify your argument by pointing out that the article "as created focused on a previous specific period of rule" surely the article should focus on that period of rule and information on the modern regime should be moved to the article on the actual state like any other nation in the world? What we have as things currently stand is a page which is weirdly scripted out of any of the political information which would usually be included in a wikipedia article on a sovereign state which is fair enough as a interim arrangement but not a adequate long term solution. Llewee (talk) 17:37, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • There are lots of articles that should include information about the modern regime, including this one. Your RfC proposal is not to include information about the modern regime here however, it is to merge the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan article into this one, which is not a good idea for the reasons I mentioned. CMD (talk) 00:39, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes The Taliban are now the ruling government, and as such are the de facto rulers of Afghanistan despite lacking diplomatic recognition at the moment. GhostOfNoMeme (talk) 19:25, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No,...just update this pages infobox and government section as we have before. No way whole article merge is possible as per WP:SUMMARYSTYLE . I am assuming wording for the rfc is all messed up...try again perhaps. Moxy- 20:50, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Yes There is overwhelming evidence that the Taliban/IEA are in complete control of Afghanistan. If we relied on Diplomatic Recognition for countries, Taiwan would not mention the Republic of China at all. Per the reasons cited by GhostOfNoMeme, we shouldn't shy away from making WP:BOLD changes when there is overwhelming reliable sources that the Taliban/IEA are the de-facto rulers of Afghanistan. IntUnderflow (talk) 21:01, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, with the caveat that the IEA (1996-2001) partially recognized state AND the IEA (2001-2021) insurgency be split off into a separate article and retain most of the content of the current IEA page, with relevant (government) sections being split off onto this page. WittyWidi (talk) 21:20, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Strong No, Taliban is designated as a terrorist organization by many nations and has a very low popularity amongst the people of Afghanistan. In order for an entity to be considered as a governing body, atleast one UN recognized country has to accept them as legitimate, or else, it is considered as a rebellious, even if it occupies 100% of Afghanistan, by international law. Thanks Kamran Tetra (talk) 21:46, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • No (Summoned by bot) IEA should stand alone as a detailed article--as it is--on the government, culture, politics, military, foreign relations, etc. primarily during 1996-2001 period. Far too big to "merge". Appropriate editing changes can be made in selected locations of the main Afghanistan article to bring it up to date without a merge attempt with IEA that would require an effort amounting to nuclear fusion. I support renaming IEA with the parenthetical "(1996-2001)", as currently suggested by the tag in its front matter. DonFB (talk) 22:13, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, the people of Afghanistan have the right to select their government, the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan has been selected multiple times in elections and referendums, but the Islamic Emirate has not held and is not willing to ask the people whether they consider them legitimate by referendum, election, etc. We live in modern times where controling land is not the only factor of a group to be considered a government, unlike the medieval era. Kamran Tetra (talk) 22:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

    • I hate the Taliban too but by WP:NEUTRAL (we should not care how the Taliban is or how they came to power or what Afghans think of them) and several examples like Taiwan, Kosovo, Somaliland that serve as precedents in this case that Wikipedia does not just show states other states recognize. Especially in Somaliland's case, Somalia's article shows area it claims but does not control - same as Serbia, Pakistan, etc. with other claimed uncontrolled territory. As such the IEA, the de facto government of Afghanistan, should be listed in the infobox and relevant sections of the page WittyWidi (talk) 22:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • To further clarify, Wikipedia lists leaders most WEIRD (Western, Educated, yadda yadda) people would consider illegitimate, like the Kims, Gaddafi until his deposition, and various other coup/military dictators, and crucially, does *not* continue to list the deposed "legitimate" leaders
  • Yes It would be hypocritical to not recognize this form of government, even if it is established by conquest. Most nations that exist in the world exist due to some ancestral (and sometimes current) conquest, violence, or other application of militant force. We recognize governments that are monarchies, despite monarchs being not voted for typically. We recognize lots of non-democractic forms of government and do not deny their authority. Recognition of governments by conquest in the west but not MENA is hypocritical at best. ~Gwennie🐈｟💬 📋｠ 23:44, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There seems to be some uncertainty on whether or not a full page merge is proposed. When answering the RfC I answered as if a partial merge of content regarding the 2021 iteration of the Emirate was requested, but others seem to think it is asking for a full page merge. Llewee if you could clarify the RfC slightly (and maybe also ping the users who have voted based on this unclear version) that may be a good idea. BSMRD (talk) 23:49, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Status of government

Dear Wikipedia editors, the Islamic Emirate is a self-proclaimed de facto unrecognized entity with low support from the people of Afghanistan. Many of their authorities are war criminals. Please do not consider it as a government, as it lacks many of the basic fundamentals of a governing administrative body. Even though the Islamic republic of Afghanistan has been overthrown, it is still the de jure government with high support from the people. Thanks Kamran Tetra (talk) 16:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cool. Do you have sources backing this, or is it your opinion? BSMRD (talk) 17:15, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I've made your comment part of the RFC as it relates to the discussion. --Llewee (talk) 17:09, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have undone this, as it is not about an article merge. CMD (talk) 17:19, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-58479750
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