Talk:Erik Sparre

Erik Sparre is currently a Royalty, nobility and heraldry good article nominee. Nominated by ThaesOfereode (talk) at 15:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

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Short description: Swedish noble and statesman

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

A fact from Erik Sparre appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 15 May 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Erik Sparre (pictured) is known as "the father of Swedish constitutional law"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/May. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Erik Sparre.

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Launchballer talk 16:55, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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A 1595 painting of Sparre, holding his treatise Pro rege, lege et grege

... that Erik Sparre was godfather to Gustavus Adolphus, but Gustavus' father had Sparre beheaded at the Linköping Bloodbath shortly thereafter? Source: For the claim that he was godfather to Gustavus Adolphus: Sparre's relations with Duke Karl, after the death of Johan III, were at first good, and he even stood as godfather to Gustav Adolf in 1594. For the claim that Charles IX of Sweden had him executed: On March 20, 1600, the executions were carried out in the Linköping marketplace. Among those beheaded was Erik Sparre. (NB: Charles is referred to by his Swedish name, Karl, in this source.)
- ALT1: ... that Erik Sparre is known as "the father of Swedish constitutional law"? Source: Sparre attempted to take into consideration the common welfare of all Sweden. He has become known as the father of Swedish constitutional law.
- ALT2: ... that Erik Sparre has been called Sweden's James Madison? Source: Sweden did not produce a Jean Bodin or a James Madison, but it had Erik Sparre (1550–1600).
- Reviewed:
- Comment: I know the first hook is a bit clunky so I'm open to better wording. If not, this page is absolutely lousy with DYK material so if none of these ALTs are good, I'll happily find a new one!

Created by ThaesOfereode (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 0. Nominator has less than 5 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

ThaesOfereode (talk) 02:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC).[reply]

QPQ not needed, ALT1 probably the best followed by ALT2. ALT0 is not great. Sourcing good, new enough no copyvios. All's good Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:55, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for the review @OlifanofmrTennant:! I've added the {{subst:DYKtick}} since it looks like you forgot it, but if you need to change it, feel free. ThaesOfereode (talk) 14:34, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Curious about specific translation

A passage under the "Pro lege, rege et grege" mentions the concepts "accidents and conveniences" which is translated from "tillhörigheter och nyttigheter". Obviously, these are historical terms and should in no way be confused with contemporary use and their translations.

That said, I'm very curious where this article finds it's claim to these severely deviating translations of the stated Swedish terminology. The link in the source note rendered nothing.

Arcsoda (talk) 09:52, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arcsoda: The source cited (Roberts 1968, p. 304) contains the passage and translation, just as cited: "Sparre argued that the dukes had only a dominium utile in their duchies: their claim to enjoy their rights 'as freely as the king does in his dominions' applied therefore only to the 'accidents and conveniences' (tilhörigheter och nyttigheter), and by no means implied a sovereign authority." Roberts was a well-regarded historian and the book was published by a reputable academic source; I'm more willing to take that translation over virtually any other without good cause. ThaesOfereode (talk) 11:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That you for responding. It wasn't the legitimacy behind the source that raised interest, it was how the translation was transfered from the source, when said source gives no explanation for the specific translation. Original material (e.g a source's own translations) is usually not welcome in Wikipedia articles.

Arcsoda (talk) 13:04, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@ThaesOfereode and Arcsoda: I have asked a question at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language#"accidents and conveniences". TSventon (talk) 13:25, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]