Talk:Heckler & Koch MP5

Variants

MP5SD-N - Is this a real variant, because I cannot find it in the printed references I have. Veritas Panther 11:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I did not know about this variant until it was added here, so I did a Google search and apparently it does exist, although I could not find any official reference. Perhaps the MP5SD-N is an aftermarket variant, with modifications carried by the Navy — after all it consists in an MP5SD3 with minor modifications: the KAC stainless steel suppressor (found a picture here: A. KAC MP5-N 9 mm/10 mm; B. KAC MP5SD-N stainless steel; C. HK/Wolf MP5SD aluminum), and the Navy trigger group. This is only speculation, however, since I could not find any official reference. —Squalla 14:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The MP5SD-N is referenced in the book "Project 64: The MP5 Submachine Gun Story." It was a factory project. There were two versions. One used a stainless steel suppressor by Mickey Finn, the same fellow who designed the suppressors for the other MP5N variants and the P9S in SEAL inventories. However, Finn's suppressor was larger in diameter than the factory MP5SD suppressor and required modifications to the design of the SMG. The second version used a KAC stainless steel suppressor. This was the same diameter as the factory aluminum suppressor, and thus could be swapped out without any modifications. HK made the switch around September 1993. --D.E. Watters 19:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

US Machinegun Ownership

The article cites the HK 94 and SP89 variants as having been "legally converted to submachinegun form" (assumably meaning enabled to fire automatically) via alteration. I was under the impression that civilian possession of automatic-firing weaponry, including alteration to allow that capability, has been illegal in the US for decades, well before the Brady Bill. Was I mistaken about this? 70.33.167.121 06:56, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

This is a common misconception. Ownership is strictly controlled, requiring the payment of a $200 tax stamp per transfer and a detailed federal background check. D.E. Watters 13:25, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

In addition to those restrictions, in order to manufacture such a device, you need to pay an even steeper annual fee to the ATF for a special manufacturer's license (something like $1000/year, but I don't remember). Also, unless it's for personal use, you need a dealer's license to sell it, and you can only sell to other dealers, as per FOPA. --UNHchabo 03:59, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Image needs caption

The image really needs a caption. I've no idea which kind of MP5, but I figure it should say something along the lines of "Heckler und Koch MP5-SD with tactical lunchbox attachment" or something. -- Finlay McWalter 02:26, 28 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Done. It was a "MP5A3 9mm shown with optional 0-1-2 trigger group and tactical forearm light." -- Andrew Morritt 00:03, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

Safety?

During my Bundeswehr time I recieved some superficial training on the MP5 ([dis]assembled it a couple of times, never fired). The instructors told us that the safety tends to wear out within a few years, resulting in several guns having discharged despite the safety switch being set to "S". As a result there was a standing order that the MP5 must not be carried with a round in the chamber unless immediately before firing. - Is this a general problem of the MP5 or is it limited to the Bundeswehr models? --Qualle (talk) 08:32, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

That's a problem with special operations forces as well, or so I've been told. The stuff just wears out. The US Army doesn't field submachine guns for standard use (there are exceptions, but not the norm). Considering the extent the Bundeswehr use them, I imagine there have been a number of accidental discharges. Gibson Cowboy 03:07, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

College Police

The campus police at California State University, Los Angeles have begun carrying these in patrol cars as a secondary weapon (instead of a shotgun). 21:54, 15 December 2005

thats comforting, considering its a higher quality weapon :> less collateral, too :) -- Cannibalicious!

Grenade Launcher?

I play a lot of video games and most of them show the MP5 with a underbarrel M203 Grenade Launcher, but isn't the M203 bigger then the MP5 in Real life?

Could someone clear this up for me, thanks.

MP5 does not have a grenade launcher, I would be interested to know which game has this configuration. You may be thinking of an M4--—  KaiserB 22:49, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

• The M203 according to the manufacturer: The M203 grenade launcher is a single-shot weapon designed for use with the M16 series rifle and fires a 40mm grenade. The M203A1 grenade launcher is a single-shot weapon designed for use with the M4 series carbine and also fires a 40mm grenade. Both have a leaf sight and quadrant site. The M203 is also being used as the delivery system for a growing array of less-than-lethal munitions.

• Actually, RM Equipment offers their M203PI with an optional attachment system for the MP5. This is the basis for the End of Days movie prop. Check out the following PDF on the second page: RM Equipment M203PI. There is also a more recent version of the attachment that differs slightly in appearance. --D.E. Watters 01:47, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

The Half-Life series is known to usually have underbarrel Grenade Launchers on their SMG's (MP5, MP7).

On an MP7? That seems hard. Although the M203PI seems like it could fit.Sk8tuhpunk 22:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Half-Life 1 features US.Marines armed with MP5's with M203 under the barrels like with M16/4 rifles. The Mp5's look like they've had their barrels extended like with the M203 PI system (although the player view models look like MP5Sd's (despite not being suppressed), while when yu look at marines carrying them the weapon has the M203 PI barrel extension.

Half-Life 2 features the MP7 with a GL. However the game is set like 20 years in the future when the world is ruled by an oppresive race of aliens (known as "combine" who emply human like armed forces which among other weapons carry these. HL2 isn't exactly meant to be realistic in that respect. --80.229.147.110 12:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

The mp5 simply does not have a grenade launcher ! we must remember the game is indeed fiction. however a grenade launcher could be made for it but is highley unlikely. the m203 is just to big.

Did you even bother to click on the link I provided to RM Equipment? They have offered their M203PI for the MP5 for some time now. D.E. Watters 01:08, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think you must be getting confused with another gun (say...The M4? Not really sure though). I've been playing shooting games since they were worth playing (sorry Doom fans) and I never remember playing a game with a grenade launcher on any varient of an H&K MP. I haven't played every game out there, but I've played many, and most of the popular ones.

Operation

Keep the finger off of the trigger until target has been selected and you are ready to fire. Always point the weapon in a safe direction. Always treat the weapon as if it were loaded.

Loading

1. On models with "SEF" trigger group, place selector (found on the left side of weapon, above pistol grip) to "S" position. On models with "Pictogram" trigger group rotate rear of selector all the way up, so that front of selector points to depiction of bullet with X through it (will be only depiction outlined in white). Weapon is now safe.
2. Holding the weapon by the pistol grip with the strong hand, grasp charging handle located on front left side of weapon with the weak hand and pull all the way to rear, locking it into place by maneuvering handle clockwise, into slot found near top of weapon.
3. Insert loaded magazine into magazine well located directly behind rear of handguard. When seated correctly you will hear a click. Wipe hand along length of magazine to ensure it is seated.
4. Slap cocking handle down allowing the working parts to go forward using the energy in the recoil spring to strip a round from the top of the magazine and seat it firmly in the breech (Do not be tempted to hold on to the cocking handle, as this may induce misfeeds).

The weapon is now loaded.

Firing

1. While holding the weapon by the pistol grip with the right hand, and having the left hand supporting front of weapon by grasping the foregrip (reverse hand positions if left-handed), place buttstock of weapon firmly against shoulder.
2. Depending on model*, rotate selector down one position to "E" or to image of single red bullet. Weapon will now fire one bullet each time trigger is pulled. If fully-automatic fire is desired, rotate selector to "F", or depiction of 7 red bullets in a row.
3. Select target and place top of post sticking up from front site over target. Center top of post inside aperture of rear sight (see [1] for more in depth sighting procedures), gently squeeze trigger.

*Some models will have burst options (2 or 3 red bullets in a row), or will be labeled numerically (0 for safe, 1 for semi-automatic, 20 or 25 for fully-automatic)

Unloading

1. Holding weapon by the pistol grip with the right hand, use right thumb to rotate selector to safe position.
2. With left hand, grasp magazine. Place left thumb between magazine release (~4mm-thick piece of metal sticking down from bottom of gun) and front of trigger guard. While grasping the magazine with the left hand, use the left thumb to push the magazine release towards the magazine, and while holding the release in this position, pull the magazine out of the magazine well.
3. Pull back charging handle and lock to rear via slot mentioned in step two of loading procedure, if weapon is "condition 1" (meaning cocked with round chambered) prepare for round to be ejected from right side of weapon when charging handle is brought to rear. Collect round and temporarily store in a place where it will not be lost.
4. After charging handle has been locked in the rearward position, visually inspect weapon to be sure no round remains in the chamber. This is done by rotating the weapon so that the right side faces up, and looking forwards into the ejection port. Chambered round should be fairly easy to spot by its golden-brass color. If any doubt remains as to status of weapon, inspect chamber physically by inserting finger through ejection port and feeling around chamber.

WARNING: Be sure charging handle is securely positioned to the rear; the handle going forwards when a finger is inside the weapon will cause injury to the user.

After the weapon has been visually/physically inspected it can be declared as "Condition 3" (unloaded). When the weapon is unloaded, the charging handle should remain in the rearward position, with no magazine inserted in order to signify its condition to any others who may be around, or handling the weapon.

---

I've removed the above in accordance with WP:NOT, but I want to keep it around until I can write a wikibooks gun guide. Night Gyr 20:53, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Heckler & Koch MP5 in popular culture split

Okay, someone put up the sign, but never bothered to start a discussion on this. So lets start.

Weak Spilt My only caveat is that it might get out of control. However, it beats having the article balloon into an unmangeable mess. --293.xx.xxx.xx 10:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Remove content, no split. It's already out of control, and splitting it will cause the new article to become a list of indiscriminate trivia (which Wikipedia is not). This has already happened to the M16 rifle article, and the pop culture split was voted for deletion shortly afterwards. Personally I think the best thing to do is removing the whole section and adding a short sentence somewhere in the article only stating that the weapon is frequently used in popular media, preferably avoiding any instances. —Squalla 18:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Delete Content By the way, I think we need a specific comment about this sort of cruft in the style manual.--D.E. Watters 19:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I think their needs to be a rule requiring people to explain their reasoning to the tags. --293.xx.xxx.xx 01:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

There's already two articles which cover this. One is the List of firearms in video games and the other is List of firearms in films. That article can become a mess, not this one. I agree, deletin the content and then allowing those who want to add to put it in that article if they feel the need. If nobody objects, I'll go ahead and delete this section and direct them to the other article.--Asams10 03:00, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

No objections here. —Squalla 05:56, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Ditto. --293.xx.xxx.xx 06:52, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

MP5K and arms dealers

The MP5K (the "K" stands for kurz, meaning short), which is only 325 mm long, was introduced in 1976 at the request of a South American arms dealer who saw the potential for its sale to bodyguards as a concealable, but fully-automatic weapon.
Source for this? I checked HKPRO, which simply says the MP5K was designed by a "HK South American sales rep who saw a market for dignitary protection and increased firepower in a small package.". Ah, I get it. Calling a HK sales rep an arms dealer...that's a bit much. Editing it. - KingRaptor 10:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Top photo

Next chance somebody gets (since I know you all own MP5s ;)), can someone take a photo of an MP5? The current photo at the top of the article is rather washed-out, and it's kinda blurry. No offense to the photographer. --UNHchabo 04:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

MP5 as "maintenance-intensive"

I have removed the following paragraph.

The MP5 is a maintenance-intensive weapon—its roller-delayed blowback mechanism needs to be readjusted between different brands and types of 9 × 19 mm ammunition to guarantee reliability. Therefore, the MP5 is not suitable for regular army issue, but in the hands of well-trained police or military special forces, its design will lend superior accuracy and better "full auto" handling compared to other submachine guns.

It is not verified or otherwise sourced, and I highly suspect is original research or opinion. The MP5 is literally world renowned for its reliability, and I have never heard this claim before, and nor has any authority or expert I have asked. The MP5 is not suitable for standard issue in any army that I know of, but this is because of the superiority of rifle's for these rolls over a submachine gun of any model.

The paragraph has been made invisible, should sources for the claims be found, but I ask that it not be readded until then. --220.239.88.91 15:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, so why the two articles?

Heckler & Koch MP5 and Heckler & Koch MP5A4? Shouldn't these two be merged or is there a major difference that needs to be resolved? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deathbunny (talk • contribs)

It was the exact same article with a different image. I've redirected it to here. - KingRaptor 06:38, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Do it, soon--Tom of north wales 15:14, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Heckler & Koch MP5 in popular culture

The article Heckler & Koch MP5 in popular culture was on DYK on May 10, 2006, but was deleted in a mass deletion. It looks bad to have DYK articles red linked. Please consider including a Heckler & Koch MP5 in popular culture section in this article and provide a redirect from Heckler & Koch MP5 in popular culture to this article. Thanks. -- Jreferee 18:42, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

few questions

1. MP5K briefcase: external safety for the case?
2. MP5: chambered for .45 acp?
3. sd: what does it stand for?

-- Cannibalicious!

I Dont Think There is a External Safety on the Briefcase
There is no .45 ACP Variant
SD Stands for Schalldampfer (Sound Dampened)
--DanMP5 ^Talk * ^Contribs 04:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a .40 S&W variant which this article seems to ignore. This was introduced after the 10mm auto version. --Tom of north wales 17:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

new pic?

im not a fan of the pic currently used. just doesnt seem to have "it"... -- Cannibalicious!

• Agreed. The current one is flat-out inadequate. Thrawn300 04:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I found a better one and replaced the old one with it. --Semper Fi, Carry on DanMP5 | contribs 16:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Have you guys realised that the picture further down the page can be found at World Guns[2], yet the licensing says self made. Also the picture has been reversed and it is the wrong way around (note cocking handle and unseen ejection port, which can usually be seen). X360 08:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

MP5SD sound level

Almost inaudible beyond 15m? I've been well over 15m from a MP5SD being fired, and had no problems hearing it. All sources I can find give the sound level of the MP5SD in the >120dB range, which is low for a suppressed firearm but not as low as most people whose experience with suppressed weapons comes mainly from Hollywood products might expect. PubliusFL 22:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

If you were to add the MP5K to the MP5 article, you would need to add all versions of all guns to the main article. Something to think about.

I recall hearing somewhere that the MP5SD was nearly inaudiable, apart from the hammer. Or at least that the sound of the hammer (or possibly the mechanism that pushes the hammer back after firing) is louder than the noise the bullet makes on discharge. --Gunrun 01:31, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Well I recall hearing the actual MP5SD, and it was not "almost inaudible," which is how the article used to describe it. But the offending language is gone now, so no more problem. PubliusFL 17:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't know if anyone saw the final paragraph of the History section...

...but it read (rather inaproriately) as below:

'The Red Army Faction, a German left-wing millitant group, depicted a Heckler & Koch MP5 in their insignia. This is not true, any of it. Do not ever listen to Wikipedia !! I got virus once from Wikipedia. They have usefull information. But a virus is not that much worth. Isn't it?'

I have altered it to remove the portion begining at the second sentence.

Jeez, sometimes the wombats crawl straight out of the woodwork, don't they? Bwob 09:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

It was just vandalism from an IP, when you see something like that, just remove it or revert to the last version of the page. — DanMP5 Semper Fi, Carry on 13:30, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Detailing on MP5 discontinuation?

Should we add it... Ominae 02:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

I haven't heard about it being discontinuation, but yes, If Sources can be found that and when the MP5 will be discontinued, add 'em. I'll do some research. Corporal Punishment 02:01, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

This was announced on the HK Defense Inc. site 2 years ago in 2005. I found the words like this from another site:

"Effective immediately the following HK weapons are no longer in series production and available from HK. G3 Rifle (all variants), HK33 Rifle (all variants), HK53 Compact Carbine (limited availability to those in stock at present), MP5PT Submachine Gun (Plastic Training ammunition variant), HK23E and HK13E Machine Guns, HK79 and HK79A1 add-on Grenade Launchers.

While HK will continue to support already fielded weapons of the types listed here, current users should consider augmenting organizational parts inventories to support these weapons and/or begin replacing these legacy HK weapons with new, more modern HK weapons on a one-for-one basis. This notice does not affect other HK weapons not listed in this announcement." Ominae 03:14, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

It says that they are discontinuing the "Plastic Training ammunition varient" not the full family of MP5 weapons...24.15.64.119 21:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)Jake

Merger

Should we merge the MP5K article? I don't know how we could retain the info from the article to this one. should it just be deleted? J-stan ^Talk 20:39, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Dnt care if you do it fine if you dnt its cool.(ForeverDEAD 19:26, 14 August 2007 (UTC))

the MP5K article should be merged with this article. The MP5K is a variant of the MP5, so its common sense to merge them 82.47.137.100 17:38, 19 August 2007 (UTC)