Jump to content

Talk:Nikolai Gogol

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 150.143.107.171 (talk) at 04:02, 4 November 2023 (→‎Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 November 2023: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Former good article nomineeNikolai Gogol was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 29, 2006Good article nomineeNot listed

Template:Vital article

Gogol is Ukrainian!!

Gogol was born in Ukraine and lived there until he was 19. He wrote in Russian because this language was obligarory kn Ukraine due to Russian imperialism. He indeed lived in Russia for some time, but he as well lived in several European countries. The fact that he lived in Russia some years, doesnt make him Russian. Sasha Chu12347 (talk) 15:39, 31 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutly agree!! In my opinion, due to Russian crisis, which our world is suffering from right now, it's really important correct this mistake as soon as possible. Kur4k111n (talk) 10:45, 20 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
absolutely it makes no sense what is written here; a Russian writer from Ukraine does not exist. He is Ukrainian. 2601:281:203:2660:C39F:C18E:F7EB:6C92 (talk) 05:28, 11 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article needs to be updated to remove any biases and potential culture appropriations. For example, Britannica reads "Ukrainian-born humorist, dramatist, and novelist whose works, written in Russian, significantly influenced the direction of Russian literature." This is perfect. Whoever is in charge of editing this article, please, update it accordingly. PhD Cambridge (talk) 09:00, 5 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would advise you to take a look at discussion page for Igor Sikorsky. Igor too was of Ukrainian ethnic background, he was self referring to himself as Ukrainian, initially he was presenting himself as a Russian but in sense that he at the time saw Ukrainians as one of groups of Russians (just like Tatars, Kalmyks, Komi etc. were seen as Russians at the time). Mr Fantastic Knowledge (talk) 17:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's widely known that he was of Ukrainian ethnic origin and was even referring to himself as Ukrainian. Same situation was with Anton Chekhov - he was also an Ukrainian, self referred to himself as one, actually spoke Ukrainian and was publishing in Russian. Mr Fantastic Knowledge (talk) 17:36, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree too - the adjective that describes Gogol should be related to his nationality, not the language he wrote in. If we keep the description "Russian writer of Ukrainian origin" (if it is decided that language determines the adjective), then Edgar Allan Poe should not be described as "an American writer," but rather "an English writer of American origin." Shwabb1 (talk) 10:23, 26 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That would be Russian-language Ukrainian writer, or Ukrainian writer of Russian-language literature, if the point is to be clear. But I’ll point out that Joseph Conrad is not an “English writer,” either.  —Michael Z. 22:38, 28 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mykola Hohol not Nikolai Gogol

because Hohol is Ukrainian writer and his name writes in the rules transliteration from Ukrainian to English languages. 89.28.207.91 (talk) 18:52, 3 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Zaporozhian Cossacks

The text bolded here: His fictional story Taras Bulba, based on the history of Zaporozhian Сossacks.... links to Zaporozhian Host although the Taras Bulba article itself links directly to Zaporozhian Cossacks when first mentioned. Is this intentional? —Matuko (talk) 21:51, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done  The article is a better link target than the disambiguation page. Thanks.  —Michael Z. 00:59, 19 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 28 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 10:10, 4 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Nikolai Gogol → Nikolay Gogol – per WP:RUROM, the Russian name "Николай" should be spelled as "Nikolay". — Mike Novikoff 04:00, 28 March 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). — Mike Novikoff 09:44, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note that "Mykola" and the like are out of the question, it's about changing just one byte, see:
> fc/b 1 2
Comparing files
00000006: 69 79

> cmp -bl 1 2
 7 151 i    171 y
— Mike Novikoff 10:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. The rule is WP:COMMONNAME, which is the current title.[1] A romanization convention is a fallback in case there is no single commonly used name in reliable sources, but we do not actually have a romanization convention for Russian.
RUROM/WP:RUS is not a guideline or convention, but a personal essay. It contradicts the naming guidelines which advise us to use a standardized romanization system. That essay should be retired.  —Michael Z. 19:53, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Clear WP:COMMONNAME in English-language sources. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:09, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. If it's good enough for Britannica, it's good enough for me. The whole business of looking at issues of the choice of transliteration method through the lens of WP:COMMONNAME is pretty silly and unproductive; always has been. Cases where COMMONNAME truly applies (like Tchaikovsky) are far and few between; mostly it's just nitpicking about one letter, as is the case here.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 29, 2023; 23:43 (UTC)
    Britannica consistently uses one of the British romanization methods with y. But Nikolai is good enough for the Columbia Encyclopedia,[2] University of Toronto Press,[3] Harvard University Press,[4] and Oxford University Press.[5] So? Isn’t voting to change this the definition of nitpicking over one letter? Maybe we should follow the guidelines. —Michael Z. 00:38, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ironically, all this confirms is that we are not dealing with the "common name" issue, but merely with a decision which romanization system to settle on. Britannica uses one, Colombia another, neither choice makes it a "common name". WP:RUS is more than capable of dealing with things like this; it should be promoted back to a guideline, not "retired", since it's what's mostly being followed in practice anyway. Otherwise we'll keep wasting time and manpower on discussing every Nikola(y|i) Wikipedia covers, as well as a bunch of other things (like spelling of names of lesser known people and obscure locations), where applicability of WP:COMMONNAME is not even remotely debatable.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); March 30, 2023; 01:17 (UTC)
    That’s the opposite of sound logic. This is a casebook demonstration of the non-standard anti-guideline WP:RUS’s failure because it often indicates spellings that are not the clear and unique COMMONNAME. The vast majority of academic and popular-academic sources use i-based ALA-LC romanization, and so Nikolai is the most common spelling for the given name[6] and for this writer’s name[7] (by an order of magnitude!).[8] There will always be articles created that have to be renamed to conform to actual guidelines, but as long as anyone attempts to use the personal essay WP:RUS there will be more of them. (Another secret: no one actually uses WP:RUS because no one has internalized its non-standard and poorly presented rules.) P.S.: something about your sig prevents direct replies. —Michael Z. 15:24, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 April 2023

CHANGE: the Alexandrinsky Theatre in St. Petersbrug, TO: the Alexandrinsky Theatre in St. Petersburg, DLDL1964 (talk) 18:55, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Good catch! Lizthegrey (talk) 19:51, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 April 2023

Should we shorten this short description to {{short description|Russian writer (1809–1852)}} that exceed more than 40 characters. 112.204.223.162 (talk) 23:10, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: It seems, based on the content of the article, that his Ukrainian origin is important to his writings. The article and its sources reference multiple times the fact that many of his works both drew from and had an impact on Ukrainian culture - I think the six extra characters here is fine. Tollens (talk) 23:38, 28 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A few questions

Didn't the Ukrainian nationality appear in the mid-nineteenth century in the historical territories of Red Ruthenia controlled by the Austrian Empire in environments associated with the Uniate Church? Didn't the Austrian Germans support the Ukrainian Uniate Church against the Orthodox Ruthenians who sought protection in the Russian Empire? Wasn't it Lviv that was the center of the Ukrainian movement supported by the Austrian Empire. Didn't this movement appear in the Russian Empire only after Gogol's death, in the 1870s, in narrow student circles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.111.119.54 (talk) 14:58, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 August 2023

The language Gogol wrote in was Ukrainian and Russian. In the same text his Ukrainian upbringing is mentioned, but also usage of Ukrainian language as well as Russian. Moreover in the main head in brackets a Ukrainian spelling of his name should be mentioned - Mykola Gogol, he was stemming from the Ukrainian culture, spoke the language and was Ukrainian. Using Russian lang name spelling only and not mentioning that he also wrote in Ukrainian, removes that part of Gogol's life completely. Lettashtohr (talk) 08:07, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 20:57, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 November 2023

Change from:

Nikolai Vasilyevich Gogol[a] (1 April [O.S. 20 March] 1809[1] – 4 March [O.S. 21 February] 1852) was a Russian novelist, short story writer, and playwright of Ukrainian origin.

To:

Nikolay Gogol, in full Nikolay Vasilyevich Gogol, (born March 19 [March 31, New Style], 1809, Sorochintsy, near Poltava, Ukraine, Russian Empire [now in Ukraine]—died February 21 [March 4], 1852, Moscow, Russia), Ukrainian-born humorist, dramatist, and novelist whose works, written in Russian, significantly influenced the direction of Russian literature. (Source: Britannica) 150.143.107.171 (talk) 04:02, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Nikolai_Gogol&oldid=1183411850"