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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jellypuzzle (talk | contribs) at 13:15, 3 June 2006 (substituting talk template as requested). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Site down / moving servers

If the raid is true... when are the idiots trying to shut down piracy websites learn? I guess never...

Anyone else having trouble getting onto the site? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.104.48 (talkcontribs) 16:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

They moving to Stockholm and its down for awhile

Someone earlier said that swedish and norwegian media connected TPB to directconnect.no. This is not true for norwegian medias as far as the 5-6 articles I've read. Anyone got the source for this?

oh thats a relief. twas the best torrent site on the web. Hope they don't end up sued or Napsterated --   NERD42    EMAIL  TALK  H2G2  UNCYC  NEWS  21:13, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Since the traffic is quite heavy the site can be hard to reach sometimes but it is upgraded and moved to Stockholm now. --Blenda Lovelace 23:08, 20 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

k00l. It does actually have some perfectly legal uses, and perfectly legal material, in addition to the vast majority of pirated material. Perhaps the article should mention that. --Nerd42 20:37, 28 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

US control

I don't get it. The USA OWNZ the 13 root servers and net controls. It would be as easy as saying entire Sweden is going to disappear from the net if you norse pirates continue to mess with our Hollywood money vault. Swedish economy is heavily dependent on the net and if the USA kicked them out of the root DNS within days they would be on their knees handing the headof those pirates on silver plates to Uncle Sam.

Can route around it. It isn't technically feasible to cut them off indefinitely.
If they were attempt to kick them off the DNS servers, people could simply change the hosts file for the IPs, or use a non-standard DNS server. Plus, ICANN runs the servers, not the US gov. 209.33.36.146 04:07, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Or simply the TBP site could be bombed by spies like the Rainbow Warrior ship was. America needs the damn money to buy arms for Iraq and Afghanistan and now Iraq, they should not tolerate big tax money losses to pirates. 195.70.32.136 11:15, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What's your point? --Closedmouth 12:49, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That the US isn't above committing terrorist acts to suit its own needs.
I am only guesing, but I think that Ms 195.70.32.136 is suggesting that the USA should continue to attempt to force its will, customs and local laws on the world outside its borders using any means available. The US is of course not the only minority group that tries this. DanielDemaret 10:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
funny they say they want to protect privacy and remove copyright at the same time. A person's private information is simply digital data, and can be copied like every other form of digital information. BTW, US cares because they are pirating products produced by US companies. If they only pirate Swedish stuff, no one would give a flying fuck.
plus, things like this will only accelerate the creation of an international internet police. Lots of big countries like USA and China would love to have more control over the internet.
Frokster 23:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Frokster, you seem to under the strange misapprehension that I am supporting one side or the other. I do not. I am merely attempting to interpret MS 195's message for Closemoths question. When it comes to the details of what the pirate party wants to do, one would have to look into the details of the reasons for what they want to do to understand why they people in Sweden are listening to them. Unfortunately, they have only listed these in any detail in swedish. They are, after all, mainly concern with local swedish politics here. From a swedish legal point of view, they clearly have a legal right under swedish law to do what they are doing. This international internet police that you are talking about makes me very curious. Do you have any special creation process or discussion in mind? I would love to read some reference about it. DanielDemaret 15:05, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There's a Donald Duck Party in Sweden too, doesn't mean people really want a donald duck to rule over Sweden. Frokster 03:11, 19 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The Donald Duck Party doesnt have 3600 members... The PP is currently the second largest political party outside the parliament213.66.220.225 19:43, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As Frokster pointed out, parties of these kinds are made to cause discussion and to promote a point that will affect future voting and policy more directly (the donald duck party was presumably made to show direct discontent with the workings of politics themselves).

Their URL

Nowhere on the page is a the web address http://thepiratebay.org (with the www is redirects here). So why was the last version reverted? Surely this information should be in the entry!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.163.100 (talkcontribs) 2006-03-31 01:04:42 (UTC)

What is the motivation/source for the statement that the Pirate bay homepage is legal in Sweden? Is this only wishfull thinking? There should be some reference to some legal case in Swedish courts somewhere!?

83.253.17.240 15:13, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What is the motivation/source for the TPB to be illegal? They only distributed .torrent-files to people, files not including any copyrighted material at all. Why would there be a legal case when they are not breaking any laws? – Elisson Talk 17:58, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever happened to innocent untill proven guilty?--Orange62.168.125.219 18:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A case in 1999 declared that linking to copyrighted material is legal, however hosting it is illegal. Hence, the tracker is legal, the .torrent-files is legal. The only thing that is illegal is downloading and uploading the copyrighted material.

Hence the only person doing anything illegal is the uploader. Hence the entire reason for the raid was quite illicit.

I have tried to locate the Swedish 1999 case but failed. Which court? Of course, this is mostly of interest for Swedish subjects. Anyhow, the reason it could be seen is as illegal is this: By making .torrents-files which "link" to pirate content available you are aiding distribution of copyrighted content. And in Sweden, aiding certain crimes is a crime in itself.

83.253.17.240 20:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

NJA 2000 s. 292 might be the case you're looking for. I'm not sure, but it sounds an awful lot like it. /Djonn 20:36, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Orange, there is a presumption of innocence under Swedish law, however, it probably does not have the same exact parameters as American law. Under either system a properly executed search warrant including seizure of evidence is legal. The warrant may not have been properly executed, though (Piratbyran server). --Dhartung | Talk 19:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cited in media

This page has been cited as a source in Swedish Television, (Sveriges Television) in the 23:45 31 may (local time) news report. The article was used in a video. Could someone please do as WP usually does, put in that yellow box in the top. I'm not so technical ;) 217.210.33.250 22:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's probably some template to do that. But was the article really cited? Did they really use it for information? Last I saw, it was only used as "visual filler". I didn't see the 23:45 broadcast though.
--magetoo 00:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, you're right. It was a "visual filler". Kerosene 11:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)(I'm 217.210.33.250, just forgot to log on last time)[reply]

May 31st raid; should we start trimming now?

The section on the police raid keeps on growing. Should we start taking things out and let the Wikinews article have all the details instead? It has to be done sooner or later. On the other hand, this article is where people come when they have anything to add, so maybe it should stay.
--magetoo 00:46, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Leave it - trim it in a month when people know what's happened. -zappa.jake (talk) 03:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It would seem PirateBay has already popped the joke--Brother William 10:05, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Post-raid pictures

PRQ (I believe) has some pictures of empty server racks here. Perhaps it might be a good idea asking them if they can be used to illustrate the raid?
magetoo 06:25, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

-- Of course they can be used. Pirate Bay uses the "kopimi" (copy me) logotype, signifying a general pro-copying attitude that defenitely not excludes Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julmust (talkcontribs) 2006-06-03 04:14:58 (UTC)

Are you just guessing here, or do you know for a fact that the pictures belong to TPB? Remember that the TPB people were in police custody when these were supposedly taken.
magetoo 09:37, 3 June 2006 (UTC) (Edit at 11:52, 3 June 2006 (UTC): Fixed spelling mistake.)[reply]

IRC as a reference?

The use of IRC activity to determine the time of the raid, while probably accurate, is clearly original research. Unless these logs are posted somewhere and from a reputable user, we can't include that information. — GT 08:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't say "clearly". If anything, perhaps journalism. But sure, it would be nice to have a more complete excerpt, with perhaps some explanation on what is significant, somewhere. (I've heard that there are some people who don't use IRC.)
magetoo 18:30, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think it constitutes original research any more than many other offline sources (that we can't link to) constitute original research. It is problematic in terms of verifiability. --Dhartung | Talk 19:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Offline books have been published and are reliable sources, whereas IRC chats have not and are not. If it isn't original research, it's definitely an unreliable source. --BRIAN0918 21:15, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That would mean that Wikipedia could never discuss any event on IRC, at all. I don't see what the issue is here. Are we doubting that the IRC server went down, or the time that it did? Reword it as "IRC users reported ..." and ask for the IRC log to be posted in Talk if need be (similar rules are OK'd for biographical articles). --Dhartung | Talk 05:16, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said this method of finding the time of the raid is probably accurate, but is it up to Wikipedia's standards? The IRC logs are not verifiable. We can't just assume that the events transpired as given here; there has to be a good reliable source against which we can check this information, and no, word of mouth by anonymous IRC users is not considered a reliable source of information. — GT 21:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Black Wednesday" - POV

I consider the title "Black Wednesday" as POV. Should we revert it to "May 31st raid"? Kerosene 11:11, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and it would appear that someone has changed it already. Does anyone object to that? Modulus86 12:30, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hoax, Miswording?

The raid might be a hoax? http://www.slyck.com/news.php?story=811

That's old news, check the date. 1 June 2005. :) – Elisson Talk 17:00, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is something wrong with this paragraph:

"On June 1, 2005 The Pirate Bay posted a hoax on their webpage stating that they are permanently down since they have been raided by the Swedish Anti-Piracy Bureau and IFPI. This initially caused some minor confusion through-out the BitTorrent community as to whether this closure might be a hoax. It was soon proved that it was not and news quickly spread across many high profile Internet news sites."

I want to solve things by simply changing the first "hoax" to "posted a notice" and change the "are permanently down" to just "have been shut down". But I don't know if that is what the original notice said. It wasn't a hoax that they were shut down, but it is not true that this was a permanent move. Any thoughts? Notbot 04:14, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I reworded the whole thing, since it was very confusing as it was, and the word "hoax" really didn't seem appropriate, so I subsituted "prank". A hoax, after all, is essentially a type of fraud. Weren't they just covering for some data center more or something? --Dhartung | Talk 05:17, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the white house

The white house behind it all. http://svt.se/svt/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=22620&a=602079

Is this a reliable source? Ashibaka tock 21:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
SVT in itself is a very reliable source in general. But if THEIR source is reliable is impossible to say. But as they seem to trust it then so do i.Slipzen 23:03, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No. --BRIAN0918 21:13, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Why not? – Elisson Talk 23:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
SVT - Sveriges Television is Sweden's counterpart of BBC. SVT arguably has the highest media-credibility in Sweden. Though, as aforementioned, the credibility of Their source is impossible to say.Martin Ulfvik 23:41, 1 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As such, it's arguably the most reliable source this article has (as it's arguably the most reliable source in the country where the event occured). The video also states that the police initially said that the raid was of questionable legality, but were eventually made to do it regardless. It's unquestionably a political move. The Jade Knight 05:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
How does that make the "white house" behind it all. First of all it was clearly not American police officers raiding the server farm. Second of all that's a very disambiguious statement. Perhaps someone connected to the U.S. gov made a request (since 90% of the stuff being pirated is American entertainment) to the Swedish gov to take the servers down but it was then up to the Swedish gov if they wanted to move on that request. Redeem
"Swedish gov if they wanted to move on that request." Swedish gov can't deside such a thing. It's illegal and now the Minister of Justice is in "great trouble".

Sources

Please start citing sources.. don't let this article get out of hand.


DOS-Attack

I have the adress to the webpage that people use for the attack against the police - shall i include it in the text or would that be against some Wikipedia principles? Hallogallo 09:38, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about Wikipedia's principles, but I think it would be in bad taste to post a direct link. If there's an organization behind it, I guess it'd be ok to say something like "the organization <foo> encouraged people to launch a DDoS attack on the Swedish police's main web server", or some such. It might be worth mentioning that while Piratbyrån and Piratpartiet organized/are organizing a demonstration, others protest in the way they know. IMHO.
--magetoo 11:26, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What is the DOS page dude?
http://www.freewebs.com/polisrazzia/

Associated sites

This section seems to be 100% link spam. Does anyone else see a reason to keep it? Bo Lindbergh 11:18, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stock exchange

I hope file exchangers will not shut down Nasdaq or NYSE.

More in the Intro for novices, please!

I get the vague impression that The Pirate Bay is a place people can go to get copyrighted material, but this article does very little to enlighten me. Most people do not know what a BitTorrent or a .torrent is. Someone with more expertise, please edit the introduction to this article to make it clear what The Pirate Bay is about, and why people use it. Thanks. --Tisco 15:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Read BitTorrent tracker and BitTorrent. It's linked in the first sentence! --Blakeops 07:05, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Unnamed sources

With a reporter citing "unnamed sources" about potential US pressure, how do we know that the reporter's sources are at all knowledgable in light of the Sweedish government's denial of it? Jon 15:37, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, nothing. We have to judge between svt's credibility and honesty (arguably quite high regarding news) versus them just trying to produce anything newsworthy, and blaming someone else for the damage. Personally, I wouldn't value that source wery much, but I think it's the best we can do right now.Sverdrup❞ 17:10, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Expired copyrights

Many software contain their previous version on which they are upgraded. Earlier versions' of the said upgraded versions copyright(s) may be expired and thus shall be free for any commercial use, that is provided by applicable governing law.

Subsidies from taxpayers

Some applicable governing laws prohibit the exclusion of the use of the product or the service that is subsidied by taxpayers. Preventing such use of subsidied product is criminal and leeds to liability for damages. For example blocking the free movement on partially subsidied private-owned road; demanding passport from a citizen of Schengen-countries in a area that is provided in the Schengen agreement and in the Schengen convention.

"Indefinately"

I removed the word "indefinately" from the second paragraph, as there is nothing available at this time to suggest that TPB is gone for good. Even the Antipiratbyrån have admitted in interviews [[1]] that TPB was technically legal (and thus, their servers should be returned once the investigation is over), and that the real target was the copyright reform organization, Piratbyrån (although the Antipiratbyrån have claimed they were misquoted about this). KiTA 18:32, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Indefinitely means unclear; vague; lacking precise limits; uncertain; undecided--it does not neccesarily mean forever.—jiy (talk) 20:35, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

JO

jo (Justitieombudsmännen) is going to investigate the raid and every thing that has something to do with it. From top(Minister of Justice) to bottom. They even going to investigate the investigation. http://www.jo.se/Page.aspx?Language=sv&ObjectClass=DynamX_Document&Id=2002

What exactly does this mean? Is the Justitieombudsmännen some form of legal watchdog group in Sweden? KiTA 01:40, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, kinda, you can find more information about JO here [2] --84.217.118.162 01:48, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Arrest?

> The MPAA release goes on to say there were three arrests while in actuality they were only held for questioning.

Last I checked, being held for questioning usually involves being arrested or receieving a written summon from the courts. I think that it is misleading to include this phrase because I am pretty sure that the people involved were actually arrested to be held for questioning, but then later released not being accused of a crime within a certain time period necessary to be incarcerated.

Arrest means: An arrest is the action of the police, or person acting under the color of law, to take a person into custody so that they may be forthcoming to answer for the commission of a crime. Adam Gradzki 03:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Back up!

The Bay's back up, hurrah! Does anyone know what the deal is on their servers; are they being hosted elsewhere, or what? They're not saying anything obvious on the site, which is odd, to say the least. Wooster (talk) 06:50, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's been moved to Amsterdam, last steps of the traceroute are: 11 so-6-0-0.cr2.lga1.us.above.net (64.125.27.34) 84.130 ms 84.926 ms 85.565 ms 12 so-1-0-0.cr1.lga1.us.above.net (64.125.28.233) 94.034 ms 84.830 ms 85.545 ms 13 so-7-0-0.mpr3.ams1.nl.above.net (64.125.27.186) 171.013 ms 170.611 ms 169.876 ms 14 ge1-1.sr1.esy.nl.leaseweb.net (82.98.247.34) 204.903 ms 209.248 ms 210.615 ms I believe the mininova tracker is also currently hosted in the Netherlands. Thewalrus 07:12, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]


    • ARRRRRRRR Matey

Check it out, would this be useful in the article? hollywood image

--Blakeops 07:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Top lawyer

I haven't seen it mentioned, so it may be worth pointing out that Sweden's perhaps most famous lawyer, Leif Silbersky has agreed to defend the crew behind The Pirate Bay. Rumour also has it that Captain anakata has ordered the 300-pound cannons reloaded and taken aim on Hollywood and the MPAA. Aaaarggh! :) Filur 12:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]