Talk:Turkey

Official Change of Country Name not reflected in the article

The Republic of Turkey officially changed its name by Presidential Comminique on the 4th of December. The country is now known as the "Republic of Turkiye". All international organizations were informed of the change including the United Nations. See https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/why-turkey-is-now-turkiye-and-why-that-matters-52602

Not true, it only says Turkey made products will use "Made in Türkiye". Beshogur (talk) 11:58, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

The article says this: In a nod to that, the recently published communique was clear that "within the scope of strengthening the 'Turkiye' brand, in all kinds of activities and correspondence, especially in official relations with other states and international institutions and organisations, necessary sensitivity will be shown on the use of the phrase 'Türkiye' instead of phrases such as 'Turkey,' 'Turkei,' 'Turquie' etc." So they’re changing the name on official documents and all that. Xaea12lol (talk) 22:59, 26 December 2021 (UTC) Hmm, I see that's correct. Beshogur (talk) 23:14, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

TRTWorld (which is an official government broadcaster) is basically the only source reporting this. If the United Nations, the Associated Press, etc. start using this spelling, the article will adjust. As it is, I don't think this needs to be mentioned at all. (and would it be Turkiye or Türkiye?) User:力 (powera, π, ν) 23:18, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

"Turkiye" is the Turkish name as already stated in the article, and does not belong bolded in the lead. Literally only one source covers this, as stated above. Bill Williams 01:28, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Turkiye is an endonym for the country. So, per WP:USEENGLISH, we should using a common, not official English name. 36.77.102.62 (talk) 04:10, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Would "Turkey (formally Turkiye)" work? Nar 2608 (talk) 14:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The OP did not wanted to change the article's name - which should be based on the common English name - but the official name. Turkish government is trying to to pull a "Cote D'Ivore", where they try to name the country officially by it's native name. Official names are determined by a country's government and not the common use. I was also skeptical of the name change, but a minority of governmental institutions and ministries changed their official names on their websites (1, 2, 3; check the logos). This had been attempted by the previous governments and most likely fail, but nevertheless it is used by some official organizations. I personally think that it should not replace the "Republic of Turkey" in the article since it has such a limited use, but might be mentioned in a footnote. --Gogolplex (talk) 10:27, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

There is only one official name, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti, since Turkey only has one official language which is Turkish. Everything else are just government-endorsed translations, but these have little weight against the common name that is used by international organizations and of course by the global English-speaking public. If Turkey had English as second official language with a constitution officially written in English, things would be different (cf. Eswatini). And the edit warring should stop as long as this is discussed here. –Austronesier (talk) 11:25, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

"There is only one official name, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti," then can you explain me why the lede says "officially Republic of Turkey" and not "officially, Türkiye Cumhuriyeti" or "also known as Republic of Turkey", since it's not an official name according to your argument? Countries having official non-native names is ordinary. Just look at Ivory Coast, a completely non-English speaking country with their own unpopular, government sponsored official name. There is absolutely no policy on Wikipedia that official name should be the common English name, nor the "English-privilege", which only officially English speaking countries can choose theirs. I'm also not the one that is edit warring. I'm behind my argument, it should not be added directly until UN or other big organizations embrace it, but it still have to be mentioned since it is used by ministries. --Gogolplex (talk) 13:18, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

@Gogolplex: They seem to use the name, but I would wait for official submission to the UN. Beshogur (talk) 13:21, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

I would say let's mention Republic of Türkiye in the body, not lead, and later, if they decide to change it in the UN completely. Beshogur (talk) 12:39, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

I support Beshogur's approach. –Austronesier (talk) 13:43, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, it's too early to know what will happen, at least for now. Hextor26 (talk) 17:44, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

The country has officially changed its name to the "Republic of Turkiye". Even the Turkish Presidency's Official Twitter account refers to it as the "Republic of Turkiye". Like "Macedonia" became "North Macedonia" on Wikipaedia, Turkiye should be refer to by its official name. See https://twitter.com/trpresidency?s=20 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.63.231 (talk) 03:05, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Independent Turkish newspaper does not use Türkiye https://ahvalnews.com/news Shadow4dark (talk) 15:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I think an official first hand source like the Turkish Presidency is more accurate than an "independent newspaper" about the country's name...don't you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.63.231 (talk) 13:06, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

For now the new name is not COMMONNAME but it absolutely should be mentioned in the lead as an english name, such as in Czech Republic, due to being an official english name (NOTE: previous discussion mentioned waiting for a submission to the UN, that has now happened) , perhaps in the future (maybe even near future) the new name will become the common name, but for now it is not. Xoltered (talk) 00:56, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkiye to formally register its change of name with the United Nations in coming weeks: https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220118-turkey-to-register-at-the-un-with-new-name-turkiye/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.107.23.53 (talk) 10:16, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2021

154.127.6.93 (talk) 06:57, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Sake Haas

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  melecie  t - 09:39, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 December 2021

Change "Turkey" to "Türkiye" Source: https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/turkey-to-use-t%C3%BCrkiye-in-all-activities-to-strengthen-its-brand-52307 DrJuiceBoy (talk) 18:46, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: en.wiki generally uses the WP:Common name for its articles. CMD (talk) 18:53, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 December 2021 (2)

Change "officially the Republic of Turkey" to "officially the Republic of Türkiye" in accordance with the recent name change: https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/why-turkey-is-now-turkiye-and-why-that-matters-52602 184.147.109.215 (talk) 23:55, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

See talk page above. Shadow4dark (talk) 02:25, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 December 2021

Turkey has formally changed its English name to Turkiye 109.152.227.247 (talk) 02:02, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

See talk page above. Shadow4dark (talk) 02:24, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Name Change

Turkey has now changed its international name to Turkiye. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.118.111 (talk) 23:34, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

No, they didn't. See above. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 23:37, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Oh yes they did. The Turkish Presidency Twitter account confirms this. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220118-turkey-to-register-at-the-un-with-new-name-turkiye/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.63.231 (talk) 13:08, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

The name "Turkey" was used in many treaties during the Ottoman period

The definition in the Etymology section: "With the Treaty of Alexandropol signed by the Government of the Grand National Assembly with Armenia, the name of Turkey entered international documents for the first time" is entirely wrong. The Ottoman Empire was mentioned with the name Turkey in many international treaties during the Ottoman period. For example, see the full text of the Treaty of Berlin (1878). Similarly, Article XVI of the Treaty of Paris (1856), for example, also uses the name "Turkey" for defining the Ottoman Empire. Mercresis (talk) 09:53, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Treaty of Paris (page 348) in Ottoman Turkish makes no mention of "Turkey", calling the "Saltanat-i Seniye" (exalted sultanate). Not sure where the English translation came from, or the original document making such mention. Beshogur (talk) 12:52, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

This is the English Wikipedia (not Turkish Wikipedia) and we are talking about the name "Turkey" (not "Türkiye") being mentioned in the English language text of an international treaty. See the full official text (in English) of the Treaty of Berlin (1878). Mercresis (talk) 14:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

It is irrelevant what Etymology says. Once a countries name changes and this is officially communicated to the United Nations- that country's English name is what is recorded at the UN. This was also the case with the Republic of Macedonia which was officially changed to the Republic of Northern Macedonia after Greece caused a stink. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.63.231 (talk) 13:10, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Türkiye

Türkiye — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.201.57.34 (talk) 23:46, 7 January 2022 (UTC)

Wrong date

In this article you have the following sentence:

In January 2022, the country officially changed its English name to its Turkish name, Türkiye, to better reflect its heritage and avoid confusion with the turkey bird.[40]

The name change happened in December 2021 and TRT World posted two articles about this topic. First using "Türkiye", but later changing it to "Turkiye" without a diaeresis on the letter u. Not sure why they stopped using the ü. But since the second article, they have been consistently using "Turkiye" on their website and social media. So, they have been using this word in all of their articles since December 2021 and still continue to use it.

So, I'm not sure if Türkiye should be Turkiye in this sentence, but the source should be changed from MSN to TRT World. And the date also needs to be fixed from January 2022 to December 2021.

This source is the official announcement in Turkish. Resmî Gazete is the Official Gazette of the Republic of Turkey. Or see page 27 of the full journal. MrUnoDosTres (talk) 08:22, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

@MrUnoDosTres: UN still uses "Turkey". Beshogur (talk) 15:27, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

@Beshogur that is irrelevant to what I'm talking about. In the article under Name the date is wrong. January 2022 should be December 2021. How is what the UN calls Turkey/Türkiye relevant to that? And the source used is an opinion piece. Not an official source. I've also added the official source in Turkish. And TRT World is the closest English translation to that. MrUnoDosTres (talk) 16:47, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

@MrUnoDosTres: Honestly I can't take Republic of Türkiye serious until Turkey admits this term to the United Nations. Also if you can find an article citing Resmi Gazete, then we can mention it below. We can't use Resmi Gazete per wp:primary. Beshogur (talk) 18:15, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 January 2022

Türkiye officially changed their english name from Turkey to Türkiye and I believe the name of the wikipedia and mentions of the name of the country be changed to reflect this. Or at the very least put into brackets in the title. 68.193.44.145 (talk) 21:08, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Please see WP:COMMONNAME. Wikipedia is not subject to Turkey, and the Turkish regime can of course decide what name it wants to use in English, but cannot decide over the English language. 'I'm Türkiye becomes the common name in English, Wikipedia will reflect that. As of now, that is nowhere near being the case. Jeppiz (talk) 22:58, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

@Jeppiz: Please watch your words. There's no "Turkish regime". Perhaps you meant government. Beshogur (talk) 23:13, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

While I agree with what Beshogur said, it can also be stated as the officially name (Republic of Türkiye). --Jelican9 (talk) 09:44, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 January 2022

Hello. The original name of Turkey is changed from "Turkey" to "Turkiye" due to its official change. Changes need to be made to Wikipedia as well. Ashkanhasebi (talk) 12:03, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. CMD (talk) 12:09, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkey has officially changed its name to Turkiye

Link: https://www.trtworld.com/turkey/turkey-to-use-t%C3%BCrkiye-in-all-activities-to-strengthen-its-brand-52307

It looks like Turkey really doesn't want to share its name with a bird. I think eventually we would need to change everything about Turkey to Turkiye, just like Kyiv and Myanmar. For the time being, I think we need to mention Turkey's new official name in the lede.

Other countries/territories on the watch list for name changes:

1. Cabo Verde

2. Cote d'Ivoire

3. Czechia

4. Gqeberha

5. Macao

120.16.55.132 (talk) 22:04, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Not even Daily Sabah cares about the name change as of now (every piece here says "Turkey"), so why should we give it undue prominence in the lede? –Austronesier (talk) 22:29, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Because it is an official name change. It takes time for people to adopt the new name, but I expect everything about Turkey will be gradually changed to Turkiye. For example, the official Turkish tourism website http://goturkey.com has recently rebranded its URL as http://goturkiye.com to reflect the name change. 120.16.55.132 (talk) 22:46, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Here's the circular dated 3 December 2021 and published on 4 December [1]. From the twitter account of Turkish MFA. The name "Republic of Turkey" was last used on a press release dated 5 December.(No. 407) "Republic of Türkiye" has been used for the press releases issued since 7 December.(No. 408). Therefore the name change was occurred in December 2021, not January 2022. --Mike Rohsopht (talk) 02:56, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

The relevant policy is WP:COMMONNAME. According to the policies here, we use the name most commonly used in English sources. If Türkiye becomes the name commonly used by BBC, CNN, The Times, New York Times, etc., then Wikipedia will also start using. Wikipedia will not be first, nor among the first, to use it. We follow sources, we don't set precedents.Jeppiz (talk) 11:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

You mean only British and American media matter while sources from other countries, including the official documents of the country concerned can be ingored? That is neocolonialism. 120.16.89.35 (talk) 23:56, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

No, it is not. This is English Wikipedia, one of its policies is use English, another is to use the name most often used in sources in English. I haven't come up with these policies, I'm just informing about them. If you want them changed, take it up with the Wikipedia community. Jeppiz (talk) 00:04, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

I know what you mean, but English is the official language of 67 sovereign states and 27 dependent territories. Why only mainstream British and American media are considered reliable sources while sources from other English-speaking countries are ignored? Furthermore, if the mainstream media of a non-English speaking country, especially the country concerned, publishes an article in English, why wouldn't it be treated as a reliable source? Enforcing opinions generated by mainstream British and American media in Wikipedia is a type of neocolonialism.

Sorry, I've decided to quit the Wikipedia project. 120.16.89.35 (talk) 00:32, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkish Constiution does not use Türkiye [[2]] Shadow4dark (talk) 00:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

That's because the translation was published before this name change. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 05:29, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

In the meantime, we could follow what we did for other countries and do an "also known as Turkiye" and such. While I don't think we will be calling it Turkiye instead of Turkey for a while, I also don't see why not to acknowledge the name change entirely. NekomancerJaidyn (talk) [she/her] 19:19, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

I agree. While it is not commonly used enough yet to justify using it for the entire page, it should be mentioned in the lede as the official English name for Turkey. The same is done the Czech Republic page even though Czechia is by no means a common name for the country in Englsih.--Kappasi (talk) 20:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Are there any sources to back up the claim it is "also" known as Türkiye? Jeppiz (talk) 00:04, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

A simple Google search shows many sources. Even the Turkish Presidency's Official English Twitter account made the change. See https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/turkey-turkiye-new-name-register-un-weeks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.240.63.231 (talk) 13:12, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2022

In the Geography section, please change the reference tag with the name "Unesco" to

<ref name="Unesco">{{cite web |url=https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/485 |title=Hierapolis-Pamukkale World Heritage Site |publisher=[[UNESCO World Heritage Centre]] |access-date=2022-01-17 }}</ref>

This is because the "Unesco" reference is never defined in the article, thus creating an error. The broken reference was added here with text from the article Pamukkale (this article has a reference with the name "Unesco"). ObserveOwl (talk) 16:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

 Done CMD (talk) 18:24, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2022 (2)

206.255.65.196 (talk) 17:05, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkey changed its name to Turkiye

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. CMD (talk) 18:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2022 (3) change name of article to Turkiye

Hebj (talk) 18:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. CMD (talk) 18:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2022 (3)

Turkey's English name was changed to Turkiye. Probably just change all mentions of 'Turkey' to 'Turkiye' and maybe even add a paragraph about the change. Acorn5squash (talk) 18:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. CMD (talk) 18:18, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2022 (4)

Change name to Turkiye 89.125.110.71 (talk) 18:51, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. Zoozaz1 (talk) 19:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 January 2022 (5)

Change Turkey to Turkiye Tyrone Johnson Deqarius (talk) 19:29, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. CMD (talk) 19:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkey is not Türkiye

Per Turkish Constiution Turkey is still Turkey and not "Türkiye" [[3]] Shadow4dark (talk) 00:16, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 January 2022

Xoltered (talk) 06:23, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Change the beginning of the lead from "Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye [ˈtyɾcije]), officially the Republic of Turkey" to "Turkey (Turkish: Türkiye [ˈtyɾcije]), also known as Türkiye, officially the Republic of Türkiye"

Previous consensus was to wait for an official submission to the UN, that has now occurred so the lead should be changed (similar to Ivory Coast)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. CMD (talk) 07:44, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkiye

I believe that the name of the page should be changed to "Turkiye" as the country changed it's international name. The name will be registered with the UN in the coming weeks, so I see no reason as to not make the change.

ImStevan (talk) 14:06, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Not according Turkish Constiution. Shadow4dark (talk) 14:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@Shadow4dark: the turkish constitution has clauses about the country's english name? ImStevan (talk) 16:36, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

The source in question is an English translation published in 2019 and has no legal force on its own. ImStevan is correct on that point. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 17:28, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

• ImStevan Please review WP:COMMONNAME. Wikipedia does not necessarily use official or legal names, but whatever name is most commonly used in independent reliable sources. That the government is changing the English name is certainly valid article content, but the article should not be renamed until this name is in widespread use. 331dot (talk) 16:39, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@331dot: Very much aware of that, but you can argue that Eswatini is more commonly known as Swaziland, but we still have the correct name on the Wikipedia. Turkey can and should remain as a redirect, but I think the article name and most mentions of the country in said article should be changed to Turkiye. Calling it Turkey seems to be no longer correct. ImStevan (talk) 17:50, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Perhaps that rename was done improperly, but I have not reviewed that consensus. Happy to follow any consensus that develops here. 331dot (talk) 18:04, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

@ImStevan: It's because WP:NAMECHANGE says that sources published after the name change should be given credence. What usually happens when things change names is that we wait a while to see if the name actually "takes" in those sources. Are reliable sources going to call it "Turkey" in unrelated articles, or "Turkiye"? For Eswatini we waited and the name stuck, but with a different capitalization than eSwat. But for Czech Republic we still haven't moved it as Czechia still isn't the common name. For "Turkey/Turkiye", I think we should wait and see what sources say. Though I guess we might as well start the inevitable move discussion now so people can get it out of their system. Chess (talk) (please use {{reply to|Chess}} on reply) 20:07, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Since the official new name has an umlaut/diaeresis over the "u" one must wonder just how common its usage will be and whether, if it does become in common use, whether it will be spelled correctly including that diacritical. But Chess is right, we'll just have to wait and see. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 23:16, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

If the government website is anything to go by, the i in Türkiye is intended specifically to be a dotted İ (used in Turkish) rather than a standard Latin I (used in most non-Turkish languages written in the Latin script). Kahastok talk 18:39, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

From the article: "In January 2022, the country officially changed its international brand". Hopefully there is better wording. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:53, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Actually it was in December 2021.--Mike Rohsopht (talk) 04:22, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

The best course of action (in my opinion) is to wait for the name to be registered with the UN, make Turkey a redirect, and have the main page be Türkiye, with "Turkey" being the name used in the article for pre-change, and Türkiye being used post-change, unless it is nessasary to do otherwise. The lead would say "Türkiye, often known as Turkey" or something like that.Thebrakeman2 (talk) 17:32, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

No, the Article's Name should reflect the Commonname, and this is still Turkey. Just to give one example among many, a month ago there was a discussion about changing the name of the Sultanahmet Mosque in Istanbul, which in the western (non academic) world is called the Blue Mosque. The main (and only) argument for the change was: "Common name versus official name, Common name wins". Alex2006 (talk) 17:56, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia is a place of fact, not public opinion. To use the old name is to be wrong.Thebrakeman2 (talk) 18:03, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Hmm…what is “fact”. Is WP:COMMONNAME fact? You seem to be suffering WP:OFFICIALNAMES fallacy. DeCausa (talk) 20:24, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

And your suffering from WP:COMMONNAMES Fallacy. To be an encyclopedia to to report fact, not public opinion. As it hasn’t been registered yet, it is not yet “offical”, so I suggest we wait.

Also, to all the people who are using “the constitution” as an argument, maybe that’s because the change was relatively not that long ago, and your reading an outdated versiom? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.45.170.249 (talk) 02:40, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Shouldn't we at the very least be changing the official name in the infobox and lead similar to how the infoboxes and lead are on Ivory Coast and Cape Verde? Something like "Turkey, also known as Türkiye, officially the Republic of Türkiye" would work, no? -- Maykii (talk) 11:07, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

References

Turkiye

Turkey officially changed its name to "Turkiye" and I wish to change this Turkic-Maryland (talk) 10:12, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. CMD (talk) 10:49, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 January 2022

Turkey has official changed their English country name to Turkiye 2601:440:8580:AF70:1DFC:CC63:662:94B4 (talk) 12:59, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. See discussion above. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:05, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkey vs. Türkiye--it's not spam or disruption

@User:Austronesier, you removed someone's latest effort at finding a middle ground over the Turkey/Türkiye debate. Let me point out that, contrary to your edit summary, the discussion here about that--however repetitive and inconclusive it is--is neither spam or disruptive. Throwing uncalled-for labels at people who disagree with you would tend only to convince them that YOU are the one who is being unreasonable. Uporządnicki (talk) 20:51, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

P.S. The notes below are not mine. I'm not getting into the substance of this debate yet. Uporządnicki (talk) 20:58, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

I have moved them to the appropriate place. Kahastok talk 21:14, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

The removal was correct. The aim here should not be to reach a "middle ground" if that middle ground conflicts with policies and guidelines.

There is no evidence that Turkey is "also known as" Turkiye by any significant number of English-speakers. Therefore policy would dictate that we cannot claim that Turkey is "also known as" Turkiye. Therefore policy would dictate that this is far too much weight to give to the notion that Turkiye is an English word.

Also, there are now 21 separate discussions on this talk page on Turkey vs Türkiye, including 8 separate discussions started within 24 hours (from 17:05 on 17 January 2022). It is not entirely unreasonable to describe this as disruptive spamming. Kahastok talk 21:13, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Whether or not Turkey or Türkiye is not my point or interest. Yes, there's a lot of arguing--people holding hard to one point or the other, as well as people trying to reasonably satisfy both sides. By definition, that is not spam. Another policy is, we assume good faith. Uporządnicki (talk) 21:41, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

If your point of interest is not the content of the article but behaviour, then it is better addressed in another forum rather than on this thread-filled talkpage. CMD (talk) 22:40, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 20 January 2022

Turkey → Türkiye – The country has changed its English name to Türkiye. 2600:6C5A:657F:D1F5:48D3:2853:9745:8762 (talk) 03:20, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Won't happen as everyone will keep referring to them as Turkey! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 03:27, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, per WP:COMMONNAME. Even in the period after Erdogan's December memo, 'Turkey' predominates in English-language sources. News in the past 48 hours has described the name change as an ongoing process, with unclear timelines. It's far too soon to make a call on this, and I propose a short moratorium on requested moves until other governments, inter-governmental agencies, and news media can react to moves by the country. Firefangledfeathers 03:36, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. Obviously way too soon for such a major change. Wikipedia does not lead, it follows. But if this ever does catch on and the article gets moved, then Turkey (bird) should be moved to Turkey. Rreagan007 (talk) 04:35, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. As stated above, the most common in the English-language name for the nation is Turkey. Perhaps if media and other sources follow suit with using Türkiye, there would be a stronger argument for the change. ExRat (talk) 05:32, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. Alex2006 (talk) 06:26, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:USEENGLISH and WP:COMMONNAME. Turkiye or its equivalent only used by Turkey major English sources. 125.167.57.203 (talk) 07:45, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME, until the preponderance of reliable English language sources routinely use the spelling "Türkiye". Cullen328 (talk) 07:58, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose No sign WP:COMMONNAME has changed, as stated above. This needs more than a memo from Erdogan to change it - WP:RS English-language usage has to change before we change. DeCausa (talk) 08:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose Per Firefangledfeathers. Slightly off-topic, this website [4] use the new spelling, but this [5] doesn't yet. Apparently, the word "Turkish" is still ok per government.[6] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:14, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Turkey has a new name

Turkiye is the new name of the country (in English) 68.46.158.237 (talk) 04:41, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

No, they don't. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 05:47, 20 January 2022 (UTC)