User talk:MosMusy

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, MosMusy, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Consider joining the Wikiproject Armenia Let me know if you need any help. VartanM (talk) 21:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your Georgia map...

...was popular with a number of editors....one just asked me what happened to it when he tried to use it...Can you reload it or fix it? (You said on 8 April that it "wasn't working" at first)...(From 8 April, your map: "A neutral map, showing the country in the centre, format that fits established standards, supported by a few senior editors who have no POV, see talk page for more.") Thanks.DLinth (talk) 14:39, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like it was deleted, I have no clue why. I will try to re-upload it as soon as possible - I'm away from the computer where I made it so could take several days. But it seems to me all the Caucasian countries have switched to the Orthogonal Zoomed Out Map. MosMusy (talk) 16:56, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good point....all three should be similar, all three have the Orthogonal Zoomed Out Map, and those maps have the country in question somewhere near the middle, and are not "maps of Europe" for countries in the South Caucasus, so, even though I'd have a slight preference for more zoomed in, they seem fine to me as is.DLinth (talk) 23:37, 15 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Controversial edits without consensus

Hey, I appreciate you trying to help out with the 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests article. But we've had several big discussions over the inclusion of Armenia and Azerbaijan, and there is no consensus for changing the page to remove one or both of them. Please don't remove them without getting that consensus first on the Talk page. Thank you. -Kudzu1 (talk) 03:49, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You're entitled to your opinion. Please don't make a potentially controversial edit to the article again without obtaining consensus. Thanks. -Kudzu1 (talk) 08:06, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid it is an opinion. Different organizations have different takes. Armenia and Azerbaijan can be considered Middle Eastern under some of those definitions, and because the situation there is pertinent to the article and quite closely related, we have elected to consider those countries Middle Eastern in adding them to the article. Please don't remove them without consensus. Thank you. -Kudzu1 (talk) 08:36, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. The EU has its own motives, like any organization. I know some Armenians consider their country to be European, and some consider it to be Asian, and some consider it to be explicitly Middle Eastern as well as Asian. That's fine. It's an arbitrary boundary anyway, when it really comes down to it. Suffice to say we have different opinions, and I'm sorry that you're not happy. -Kudzu1 (talk) 08:54, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, calm down. Second of all, there are also editors who agree with my position on this. If you want to argue about Armenia's inclusion in the article Middle East, please go there to do that. -Kudzu1 (talk) 03:25, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Armenia has been considered Middle Eastern in some quarters since long before George W. Bush became president. Please refer to the UN definition of Western Asia, as well as to dictionary definitions of the Middle East and the Associated Press's rule stating that "Near East" (which always includes Armenia) and "Middle East" (which does not always include Armenia) are synonymous and the latter term is preferred, as well as to the history outlined in the article Middle East. I hope this helps. Thanks. -Kudzu1 (talk) 03:31, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: you're going to have to take up your complaint with the editors of Western Asia, Eastern Europe, Middle East, and Greater Middle East and the WP:RS they cite. We did debate changing the name of the article to be more expansive, but this was rejected in favor of using a liberal, inclusive definition of the Middle East instead of a less commonly used name like Western Asia or Greater Middle East (which was, I should note, popularized but not coined by the Bush administration; the term, as it includes the former SSRs in the Caucasus, does predate Bush's presidency). -Kudzu1 (talk) 03:48, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Quoth the Wikipedia article for Europe: "Armenia is physiographically entirely in Western Asia, but it has strong historical and sociopolitical connections with Europe. The population and area figures include the entire state respectively." Those connections are noted in the article. It is also included as part of the Middle East under the "Greater Middle East" definition, which you may not be happy about, but reflects the crossroads status of Armenia. I'm not anti-Armenia in any way, I just don't want to leave out and neglect this country where protests are happening as part of this regional wave even though it has at least as much claim to being Middle Eastern (being geographically in Western Asia and included in expansive definitions of the Middle East both at present and historically) as it does to being Eastern European. And if there were a wave of protests happening in Eastern Europe, I would probably argue for Armenia's inclusion in that article as well. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:03, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As I previously said, Greater Middle East was not "coined" by the Bush administration: this academic source notes it was already coming into common usage circa 2000, when President Clinton was still in office. I have no great fondness for the term especially, but we need to be consistent, and Middle East gives Armenia and Azerbaijan as examples of countries that are sometimes considered Middle Eastern by credible, verifiable sources. On a side note, unfortunately the "Impact" article is not well developed and has a very, very low level of editing activity compared to the main article. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:15, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't include Georgia because there are no protests in Georgia. It would be interesting if there were, as Georgia is geographically and culturally part of Europe although considered part of the Middle East under some definitions, but there aren't. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:26, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Um, no. Novikova and others include Georgia, part of which is geographically European as per the standard transcontinental boundary, in the Middle East. But that's an entirely off-topic discussion, as there are no relevant protests in Georgia that I know of. Similarly, a sliver of Azerbaijan is inside the geographic definition of Europe, but the vast majority of both Georgia and Azerbaijan are in Western Asia (sometimes the Middle East). If there were protests in Georgia, I would probably want to include them. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:41, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

about inclusion of Armenia in the article 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests

I've posted a reply, I wish you all the best to your struggle! :-) Schwarz Ente (talk) 17:26, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I hope this error can be fixed soon, so Armenia is no longer shown in a false light. MosMusy (talk) 17:29, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring

That's three times you've deleted a part of the 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa protests despite a clear and present lack of consensus to do so and an apparent understanding of that rule on your part. That constitutes edit warring, which is a violation of Wikipedia editing policy. -Kudzu1 (talk) 13:54, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of how much you think you're right, it's edit warring. What's more, you've removed a plethora of WP:RS on the basis of WP:IDONTLIKEIT, which is not an acceptable rationale. -Kudzu1 (talk) 14:14, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't me who put those countries in the Middle East. It was multiple reliable, verifiable sources, which were accepted by editorial consensus before I added those protests to the article in question. Look - we seem to be talking in circles, so hopefully an admin will see fit to help out here, because I don't think you're listening to me and I've listened to you say "I don't like it" literally about 70 times now. -Kudzu1 (talk) 14:23, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have closed the above report without action, as you bring sources and a willingness to compromise to the discussion and have not technically violated WP:3RR. Continually reverting the same material without sufficient discussion does, however, constitute edit warring, and I urge you to be more careful to reach consensus at the talkpage before continuing. The tone of some of your talkpage posts also indicates that you should be made aware that the topic area relating to Armenia has historically been contentious enough that the area is subject to special discretionary sanctions, and that you may be blocked or banned without further notice. - 2/0 (cont.) 09:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Arbitration Committee has permitted administrators to impose discretionary sanctions (information on which is at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions) on any editor who is active on pages broadly related to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related conflicts. Discretionary sanctions can be used against an editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process. If you engage in further inappropriate behavior in this area, you may be placed under sanctions, which can include blocks, a revert limitation, or an article ban. The Committee's full decision can be read in the Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Final decision section of the decision page.

Please familiarise yourself with the information page at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions, with the appropriate sections of Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures, and with the case decision page.

Formal mediation has been requested

Formal mediation of the dispute relating to 2010-2011 Middle East and North Africa Protests has been requested. As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. The process of mediation is voluntary and focuses exclusively on the content issues over which there is disagreement. For an explanation of what formal mediation is, see Wikipedia:Mediation Committee/Policy. Please now review the request page and the guide to formal mediation, and then, in the "party agreement" section, indicate whether you agree to participate. Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page.

Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 11:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mediation rejected

The request for mediation concerning 2010–2011 Middle East and North Africa Protests, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. An explanation of why it has not been possible for this dispute to proceed to formal mediation is provided at the mediation request page (which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time). Questions relating to the rejection of this dispute can be directed to the Committee chairperson or e-mailed to the mediation mailing list. For more information on other available steps in the dispute resolution process, see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, AGK [•] 14:25, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

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Notice of editing restrictions

File:Yellow warning.png

Notice: Under the terms of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2, any editor who edits articles which relate to the region of Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Iran and the ethnic and historical issues related to that area in an aggressive point of view manner marked by incivility may be placed under several editing restrictions, by notice on that editor's talk page. This notice is to inform you that based on your edits, you are hereby placed under the following restrictions:

Revert limitation (formerly known as revert parole). You are limited to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism, and are required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page.
Supervised editing (formerly known as probation). You may be banned by any administrator from editing any or all articles which relate to the region of Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan and Iran and the ethnic and historical issues related to that area should you fail to maintain a reasonable degree of civility in your interactions with one another concerning disputes which may arise.
Civility supervision (formerly known as civility parole). If you make any edits which are judged by an administrator to be uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith, then you may be blocked for a short time of up to one week for repeat offenses.

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I've placed you on restriction based on the fact that a) you've been warned twice about this (you haven't edit warred since the second warning, but frankly you didn't need a second warning), and 2) you've committed serious violations of the issue since your first warning, including edit warring, sockpuppetry, and a battleground mentality. If you would like to appeal this decision, you may do so at WP:ANI, and I will not be adverse to it being overturned based on community consensus. Thank you. Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:19, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]