User talk:Zyxoas

Sotho

Hi Tebello,

I've noticed that there is a disagreement about which name to use in the Sesotho/Sotho article. Maybe you could weigh in at Talk:Sesotho_language. — mark ✎ 10:25, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to be determined to keep it at Sesotho language, but to my mind, the reasons you are giving in that discussion and the earlier one aren't convincing. Thing is, WP:MOS simply prescribes that we should use the most common term in English on this English edition of Wikipedia. Let's turn it around: I don't suppose you are saying that the Sesotho articles st:Senyesemane and st:Se-jeremane should be in fact called Se-English and Se-Deutsch... or are you?

Also, I don't buy the culture-pessimistic argument that 'English speaking people generally have absolutely no interest in eg isiZulu'. Apart from being a straw man (one wonders who bothered to create the article in the first place), it's simply not true. I've written quite some articles here on African languages, and people have repeatedly contacted me to let me know they appreciate Wikipedia's growing coverage of this field. — mark ✎ 14:03, 11 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be a misunderstanding amongst some 2nd language English speakers regarding language names. In English we use the word "German" for "Deutch", and the word "French" rather than "Francais". In the same way, 'Xhosa' is used - not isiXhosa or isiZulu. Does this make sense? If not, I can provide further examples. 196.207.40.213 14:34, 21 April 2007 (UTC) DawnTreader[reply]

I don't exactly qualify to be a typical "second language" speaker -- there's no need for any examples and I will revert any changes that contradict the exact wording of the highest law of my country.

The name is Tebello Thejane, by the way.

Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 19:00, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your signature says "Talk to me - I'll listen", yet you don't listen at all well. Do you claim that the constitution is perfect in it's written form? Quoting from an erroneous document does not make a quote from that document correct! {If you are having trouble with logic, please let me know and I will provide more examples} 11:50, 22 April 2007 (UTC)DawnTreader

Ngoni people

Hi,

I sorta watch some of the African articles (tho I know nothing about Africa). I'll remember your name for future reference if I need someone to look at something that's fishy. :-)

Later --Ling.Nut 00:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ngoni people

Lather, rinse, repeat. :-) More stuff that is... well maybe POV and certainly not WP:V. I know you said that you don't like WP:V (or at least, that's how I understood your comments — please forgive if I am mistaken), but IMO it is protection against propaganda. [Not saying the edits to Ngoni people are propaganda; I have no idea about their veracity.]

thanks! --Ling.Nut 18:13, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nguni

You might wanna check this series of edits too... — mark ✎ 08:47, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks.

Firstly, here's my personal opinion. I never thought that Nguni societies were very big on stone buildings, though I guess that, like Basotho and the people of Zimbabwe and Mapungupwe etc they might build common housing with daga (in Southern African English) and plant fibres (the stereotypical "Zulu hut") and build royal houses and forts with stones. However, this region is in Limpopo, and this is problematic for two reasons:

It's right next door to the sites of Mapungupwe and Great Zimbabwe. The people there could've either learnt how to build using stone or, if they were Vashona, Vatsonga, or Vhavenda, this knowledge could simply have been passed down from their ancestors who first built these sites (no it wasn't Arabs or Jews ;)).
I believe that the Limpopo region was largely ignored by Nguni groups and they didn't really settle there (just passed through).

Less personally, however, the source doesn't seem to say anything about the Nguni people (apparently, however, the Bantu were "a tribe" from Nigeria).

It doesn't seem to be downright wrong, but providing that reference was misleading and it might indeed by OR. What's your opinion? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 11:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is my opinion. In short, the stuff was unsourced except for one sentence, which I left intact. Do you agree? — mark ✎ 12:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I skimmed through the source (thrice, in both directions) and couldn't see anything about stone architecture. Perhaps I missed it?

Besides, the rise of the Nguni people is quite recent (200 years) and stone walls are, well, made of stone; why would archeologist need to dig to find evidence of this architecture? Did I perhaps misunderstand something? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 13:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're probably right, in which case nothing useful is left of the edit. Feel free to pull it out entirely. — mark ✎ 13:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seems plausible, but the misleading citation makes me extremely suspicious. I think I'll revert. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 13:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sotho people

Move it back to Basotho if it eases your mind. I won't bother to revert. We're making a Tafelberg out of a molehill. — mark ✎ 20:55, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I was under the impression that you needed to erase the redirect first? Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 21:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Zyxoas ... in future, listen to other people and see what has changed and for what reason instead of blindly changing things back please.196.207.40.213 14:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC) DawnTreader[reply]

Masixoxe

Hehe, isiXhosa is coming along slooooowly. I'm trying to focus on final year though (but it's hopeless. I've officially lost interest in politics and I'm biding my time until I graduate). I'll be moving back in June so I can work on my languages among the people :) Sorry the jobs not working out - got anything else on the cards? Joziboy 10:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you don't mind me replying hither.

Disillusioned about politics, hey?

A tad OT, but I'm rather happy about Helen Zillion possibly becoming the DA's leader -- I might even vote for them (ghasp!)! And those crazy communists still think Zoomer should be our president (ARE YOU KIDDING!!?). And the ANC might even split up (Oh Lord! Help us all!).

So yeah, there's nothing at all interesting about politics...

Haha, Oh I'm still interested in SA politics! Just not so much the political theory side - I've come to the rather sad conclusion that no ideology is going to save mankind, and we have to save ourselves individually. Which, for an idealist like me, was a pretty rough moment to have to arrive at. Alas I still have to finish my dissertation so if you'd like to give me your opinion on why socialism has failed to take hold post-1994, let me know!

Still want to do art instead?

Yup. Or architecture! Not sure yet. I finish up here in June so I'll head home then and do some thinking. Kenton is great for that (there's nothing else to do there!). So just how long are these dreads of yours? They seem to play a major part in your life! :) I wanted to say, I don't come on here much anymore so here's my email if you're bored online too: [email protected] Any luck with the job-hunt yet? Hope 2007's shaping up well for you. Joziboy 15:55, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I had gone to an interview after I answered a Quest advert, and "passed" their evaluations. This woman calls me and says "Congratulations! You have a job! Come Friday for an interview! LOL!!1".

To "cut" a long story short, I'm not going to cut my hair for some measly bank teller job. I'll keep looking.

Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 11:38, 29 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bantu and Nawat compared

Hi Zyxoas. Since you have read my Nawat grammar sketch, have you noticed any (typological) analogies between the grammatical structures of Bantu languages and "Nahua" languages such as Nawat? I think there are a few, but I haven't had a chance to compare opinions with others about this because there are not many people around who are familiar with both language families! I could tell you what similarities I have seen, but it would be nicer to see what you think first! Regards, Alan --A R King 08:28, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Sesotho vowel chart.gif

I have moved the image to Commons (here) and the image still works in Sotho language. Thanks for spending time creating the image! --Commander Keane 01:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so very much! Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 05:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Hacking Wikimedia

You can use something like <span id="anchor"></span> to add an anchor anywhere, but in a Wikipedia article you should just create more sections (since people won't see/understand the span anchor, and sections are easier to manage).

For the audio recording, Wikipedia:Media#Audio has some info. You can upload audio in the .ogg format just like an image (through the Upload file page). To allow other language Wikipedias to use the recording, you could upload to Commons. Once you have uploaded the file (here or at Commons) you can use {{listen}} to display a link in the article. For example {{listen|filename=Pelecanus onocratalus1.ogg|title=Test|description=A test|format=[[Ogg]]}}.--Commander Keane 00:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so very much! The works, but perhaps I should just create new sections; I'll see... Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 15:03, 16 February 2007 (UTC) [reply]

Your question re anchors

Hi. I saw your question re creating link anchors, without creating a new section, at Commander Keane's page. just wondering, did you ever get a reply? Sounds like a good question. Thanks. --Sm8900 02:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the answer is in the section just above this one! You can create a new anchor named "kewl" by using <span id = "kewl" />. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 07:25, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Hover text

Wow I never even knew Template:H:title existed! So I am really unsure about different versions, or when it is appropriate to use them. Maybe try the Help desk and see what some other people know. Oh and you didn't accidentally blank my talk page, I just archived a day ago ;-)--Commander Keane 04:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay great. Thanks a lot for your time, as always. Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 09:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Noun

see my response to your discussion entry for nouns. I think you're mistaken. :) Neither 04:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Creating new categories

Hello. Just a quick message regarding your Help Desk query. Further to what what said there, I have found that simply creating a category link in an article does not create the category, but takes you to the familiar "create this page" screen with the edit box. Even adding the same link to other relevant articles appears to make no difference, and neither does waiting for the database to update itself, as far as I can tell. You cannot save this new category page without adding something to the edit box, in which case, you just add an HTML comment and then save it with an edit summary. Then the category is activated straight away. This situation was confusing when I first encountered it! Regards, Adrian M. H. 13:18, 31 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see... Yes, that might end up being a bit confusing. Thanks for the tip! Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 18:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sotho language

Hi! OK, I understand :) To be honest, I only checked the talk page after I made the changes, and I thought that you were no longer going to make them. So, I will delete the subpages and restore the article to its original version. Looking forward to a great article, Ronline ✉ 14:11, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inuse

In the future, you may want to avoid such problems by slapping an {{inuse}} tag at the top of the article while you're working on it. — mark ✎ 18:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but {{inuse|1 month}} seems to be a bit discouraged. In the future, I don't I'll bother putting myself under so much pressure and stress. Thanks for the tip.

Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 21:03, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wooo! I see it :) There we go, 1 minute after it's been updated... wasn't that a coincidence? Great work; thanks for that. Ronline ✉ 10:10, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

POV pushing prescriptivist!

Bad boy, circumverting consensus by creating ~~four~~ six high quality articles on Sesotho (not Sotho, of course)!!!!

Don't know if that part of your Master Plan will stand. For the rest, beautiful work. — mark ✎ 11:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Only four high quality articles? :-( Are the rest all crap?? :'(

What "consensus," prefix-phobe!!!!!!!!! The 21st Century is the Century of the PREFIX!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!

Zyxoas (talk to me - I'll listen) 12:07, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The le21st lecentury is the lecentury of the maprefixes, you wesay? You weamaze me, moprescriptivist! — mark ✎ 13:32, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sesotho debacle

I agree it should be reverted, but I wanted a very quick fix to the solution so that the article would be readable again. When I visited Sotho language, I found out that the sub-page links were red, and the template wasn't in the article. The problem, of course, is that the "Sesotho" name seems to be controversial, and I don't think changing it to "Sotho" is necessarily vandalism. I think the next step now is to really get some consensus on Sotho vs Sesotho and then uphold that consensus against vandals. Why do you believe Sesotho should be used instead of Sotho? I personally prefer Sotho, because doesn't "se" just mean "language"? Isn't "Sesotho" just a pleonastic construction? I think an analogous situation is Meänkieli, where "kieli" means language. But over at that article, it's just "Meänkieli" not "Meänkieli language". I'm really not sure, but I do think that Sotho tends to be more common in English. Ronline ✉ 09:06, 2 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Census table

It looks fine? As an aside. On the Sotho Wikipedia (38 pages): If you translate one of the districts (say Lejweleputswa District Municipality) I can run a bot to generate all 52 of them. Ditto for the 257 odd local municipalities (although I may need to translate one to English first - e.g. nov:Tswelopele Komunie, Sud Afrika). --Uxejn 18:40, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, yes I meant translate the entire article - it's not really that much as the article is mainly numbers. Its up to you? I'll then learn from your translation and generate all the others. --Uxejn 20:09, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sesotho phonology

You've done a great job on the Sesotho phonology page. I thought I might make some contributions that would steer the article into a format that was more in line with general practices of other phonology pages. This has very little to do with looking up sources used but I noticed a few things that got me a little confused. Maybe you could help.

/w/ is described as a bilabial approximant. However, the audio sounds more like the labio-velar approximant we all know and love. In more cursory texts, /w/ is described as being both bilabial and velar but I generally put it with the velars since the lip rounding is generally secondary. Is there a compelling reason to describe it as bilabial?
The postalveolar click ǃ is described as being "radical." What does that mean?
What are heterorganic compounds? Supposedly they aren't consonant clusters but the tie bar is used for simultaneous articulation and I have misgivings about accepting that a stop and a fricative can be simultaneously articulated and be distinct. I guess the real question here is what the word "compound" means.
Finally, I noticed that you created this image:

It might be better if it were the same shape and format as this:

If you can't (or won't) do it, it's not that important. Anyway, I anticipate your response. Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 04:07, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you so very much for your edits and your input!! Please note that I'm not a formally taught linguist and the only reason why I understand this stuff is because I'm a native speaker of Sesotho. I basically undertook this project of expanding Sesotho into a series out of frustration with some editors (as you might see from their histories).

Doke & Mofokeng describes w as a velar -- oops!! That's totally my mistake... When I pronounce it, it certainly feels like the back of my tongue is moving up, and it makes sense for it to be a back sound since it's historically derived from back vowels (according to Proto-Bantu).

When talking about clicks, one school of thought says that eg the 18 or so contrasting clicks are actually 3 clicks with 6 accompaniments. A radical click has a simple k accompaniment, though it is usually not written. Aspirated is kh, nasal is velar nasal ng, voiced is g, etc.

Heterorganic compounds truly are a weird bunch... (note that the bars are my idea so you may remove that if you're sure they're incorrect) D & M simply calls them "labio-palatal compounds" and describes their voicing and aspiration. I don't see how they can be cul8rterr since historically they're modifications of single consonants followed by approximants (see the parts about palatalization and labialization). Sesotho has only four but Northern Sotho and Setswana are much worse...

I'm not so sure about the diagram. I copied that used by D & M (though I had to change the symbols for the half-close vowels). Is the shape old fashioned or what? I've been considering using the trick used in the vowel articles (a blank chart behind symbols placed with CSS with a see-through background) then the picture won't really be necessary. What's your view?

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 13:31, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The thing about having a table/chart like this:

	Front	Central	Back
High	i		u
Near-High	ɪ		ʊ
High-mid	e		o
Low-mid	ɛ		ɔ
Low		ɑ

over an image like either the one already present (or what I've suggested) is that it gives less information. You've got to fit the vowels into specific boxes and they don't detail particularities about vowel height or backness. The image that you've made isn't outdated, it's just that it's slightly different from what the vowel chart images look like. It's not a big deal either way.

Taking a closer look at other articles, it seems as though clicks are generally represented with the velar closure symbol preceding the click symbol. However, it gets a bit tricky with the nasal click, especially with nnq. Is it a velar syllabic nasal preceding the nasal click? If so, then the most accurate way to represent this is [ŋ̩ŋǃ]. However, we can always fudge it a little bit when representing it phonemically. If that's the case then I can change the instances where I've put /ŋǃ/ and replace it with ǃn.

The article states that heterorganic compounds are not consonant clusters. Does this also come from D & M? To me, they sound like consonant clusters and although I can't argue that this perception has much authority since I lack the training to distinguish such things. If they are coarticulated then we can change any that are the coarticulation of a consonant and /j/; that is pretty much the definition of articulatory palatalization (represented with a superscript ʲ). Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 18:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you that about leaving the vowel chart as-is. I actually think the table with examples juxtaposed with the diagram looks kewl!!

It's certainly a syllabic velar nasal preceding the clicks. The way I've seen it done, is that the accompaniment is written after the click, but the k is never written (therefore ! !n !h and I guess !g). However, D & M not only uses !n but in an appendix, uses CN (where C is a weird bold l-bracket type thingy and N is a velar nasal). I think that the modern symbols are influenced by the Khoekhoegowab (Nama language) orthography. There does seem to be a bit of disagreement. I think that !k is just verry narrow?

I don't think that D & M says that the compounds are not clusters. I'm not sure where I read that -- perhaps I sucked it out of the proverbial thumb?? They certainly SOUND like clusters, but there are numerous reasons reasons not to regard them as such. 1. They come from single consonants and are simplified as such. 2. If you analyse them, they contain weird sounds, like aspirated S (pjh) or aspirated s (ps in Setswana). 3. The 2 sounds share voicing and aspiration etc.

Personally, I view them as fossilised transitions during sound changes. Thus you have: dog Proto-Bantu *N-bua -> *mbwa -> *mbJa -> (nasalization) Proto-Sotho *mpSa -> Sesotho ntSa, but it still appears in the transitionary form mpSa in Northern Sotho.

About your previous edits, I'm not so sure that (inconsistently) changing the H:title's to IPA's is such a good idea. Even though view may be a bit difficult to read, I like the floating IPA and it might really look ugly if every one of the several hundred examples in the Sesotho articles were to be followed by inline IPA text.

Btw, since it's relevant, I thought I might just alert you to the fact that I'm writing this in Opera Mini and I normally don't have access to an internet computer. So just keep my handicap in mind.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 19:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

Hi Zyxoas, Thanks for your help in fixing that article on Sesotho Wikipedia. For your information, the person who helped me was Moroesi Putsoa. Here is his email if you wish to chat with him: [email protected].

Regards, --Jose77 02:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Jose! I fear that in future this issue of the 2 orthographies may become a big problem, and perhaps I could discussd it with him.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 08:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sesotho

To me, it all comes down to cultural imperialism through language domination! One group of people is saying that my way of speaking is better than yours. That my way of conjugation is better than yours. I really dislike this myself.

Here is the way I see it. A language and those that speak it have the full right to label and use any word for anything that they want. They are free to do so. But to not recognize a people and language and try to rename, using its own grammar rules is self-righteousness in my eyes. I understand that in other languages the precedent has been set that 'German' is the English word for 'Deutch' and this precedent has been set for hundreds of years and so it makes sense in a way to keep it. But it should also be noted that during such times when such words took foothold the English society and German society were often at odds and might very well have tried to be imperialistic or dominative towards each other.

Is this what is happening on Wikipedia as a reflection of what is happening in the greater world? Is the West trying to subordinate Basotho culture? Maybe even starting with the point of refusing to call Basotho by their name and instead calling them Sotho? I don't know. Really. But, I wonder. I also hope that this is not the case and I personally do not want to be apart of this. I have tried to open my eyes and put in my two cents. I would like there to be peace and equality in the world and such things to me, believe it or not, get reflected through language.

Back to the Sesotho example, both Sesotho and Sotho are both being used in the current world. Open minded people that see others as equals, it would seem to me would want to use the name for that person's language and people when discussing them. To ask someone, "What is your language?" and then use the word they say, whether it has been conjugated or not, seems to me to do be the right thing. Exceptions might be allowed when a word is too difficult to say or when the certain types of letters or sounds don't exist in the other language, then it might be modified. But really how hard is it to add a "Se" or "Ba" in front of the Sotho. Doing so shows so much respect and equality instead of making a point that my way of conjugation is better than yours.

It irritates me a lot, this situation. In a world where both Sotho and Sesotho are being used, I would love to see people use the words preferred by the people who originated such meanings instead of trying to change them.

Jeff.t.mcdonald 18:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, one thing that many do not seem to understand is that the "ba-" and "se-" are not actually indicative of "conjugation" as such, rather they are an essential part of the noun which incidently also marks its class (see Sesotho nouns).

The "se-" does not mean "language". It merely indicates that the noun belongs to a class including words denoting, among other things,

Languages: Seqhotsa (isiXhosa)
Tools and implements: sesiu (grain basket)
Some people: sefebe (lose woman)
Indo-European imports beginning with clusters with "s": setofo (stove)
Talented actors: sekganni (professional driver)
Certain professionals: sesole (the military)
Natural phenomena: sefate (tree)

and so forth. It's an integral part of the word's morphology, and the root -- although important theoratically -- is meaningless without the class prefix.

I do also believe that it's more respectful to use the "native" (original) name always when dealing with newly met or exotic societies or concepts. Seriously: why change it!?

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 21:05, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Being naughty

Hi, yes, I suppose I had an unencyclopedic moment. Regards, Gregorydavid 05:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But what do unbalanced crankshafts have to do with anything? Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 07:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please use English

When editing the English Wikipedia, even when conversing with other users, please use English. Discussion pages are intended to be a public record of communications, and messages such as this one are better sent via email by clicking the "E-mail this user" link in the left-hand toolbox. Thank you. Kafziel ^Talk 22:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sesotho map

OK, I've reverted the map to the original version. I'll upload the ZA-only map separately and put it in the Languages of South Africa article.

By the way, when I was reading this talk page something occurred to me about this whole "Sesotho vs Sotho language" thing. I don't have a particularly strong feeling either way, but I was wondering: you say above that "Seqhotsa" is the Sesotho word for isiXhosa. How does referring to isiXhosa as "Seqhotsa" while speaking Sesotho differ from referring to it as "Xhosa" or "the Xhosa language" while speaking English? Would you be in favour of saying "isiXhosa" rather than "Seqhotsa" when referring to isiXhosa while speaking Sesotho?

Cheers - htonl 20:54, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I KNEW I shouldn't have included that example...

The most important point is that Sesotho "se-" is cognate to isiXhosa "isi-" -- they both come from the same source "ki-" and mean the exact same thing (class 7 marker). There are thousands of cognate words between Sesotho and isiXhosa where one uses "se-" and the other uses "isi-."

isintu -- setho culture

isidliso -- sejeso a form of magical poison

isandla -- seatla (palm of the) hand

isimangaliso -- semakatso miracle

etc. It doesn't take a great leap of the imagination to replace the class marker of a class 7 noun imported into Sesotho with "se-."

Sesotho doesn't have lateral clicks, but it does have the post-alveolar ones. Since, unlike English, Sesotho orthography is phonetic, the second syllable is written as "qho", which is exactly how it is pronounced.

I don't know how the "ts" came about, but I should point out that there has been hundreds of years of very close contact between Sesotho and isiXhosa speaking communities (not simply a handful of books by anthropologists, followed by decades of misunderstanding and suspicion), and the words may have changed for historical reasons (my answer to the oft-used "German" and "French" counter-example).

What is the name of your home language?

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 21:46, 16 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

English. That explanation makes a lot of sense. I guess that's a fair argument: that when you're dealing with related languages where the respective names have developed over thousands of years and with continual contact (as in the "Seqhotsa" - "isiXhosa" or "German" - "Deutsch" situations) one should stick with what's established by precedent; whereas where the languages have only been in contact for a few centuries and the situation is still "fluid" one should call people by what they call themselves. (Essentially, that there isn't a sufficiently established precedent for saying "Sotho" instead of "Sesotho", whereas there is for saying "German" instead of "Deutsch".) Which leaves me with only one question: what word do you use to refer to English when speaking Sesotho? ;-) - htonl 11:19, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I was hoping that you spoke Afrikaans, then who could debate why no one thinks twice about saying "Afrikaners speak Afrikaans" -- without meddling the weird.

In Sesotho, language names are usually constructed from ethnic names (ones language is the most obvious and important marker of the your cultural and ethnic heritage). Also, unlike vice-versa, English society has been and still is an important influence on "Sesotho-ness." With these two points in mind, several names exist in Sesotho for the English language:

Makgowa probably derived from an ideophone indicating whiteness; also a generic term for all people of European descent --> Sekgowa

Bajatlhapi derisive name meaning "fish eaters" --> Sejatlhapi

Lenyesemane Afrikaans "Engelsman" (?) --> Senyesemane

In modern times, the rather difficult to pronunce and morphologically misformed class 9 noun (see Sesotho nouns) "Inglishi" is also used by many.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 15:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lesotho Scouts Association

Can you please help render "Lesotho Scouts Association" and "Be Prepared", the Scout Motto, into Sotho? Thanks! Chris 08:43, 14 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For being a prolific contributor, I present you with this barnstar.--Shark face 217 05:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good job, you deserve it. --Shark face 217 05:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I randomly stumbled upon Sotho language (I was doing that thing that all Wikipedians do where they click all the links on a certain page and eventually get "lost") and read your contribs for it. --Shark face 217 02:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kurów

Hi. Can you change this article on Sotho? This article is now on Pedi language because one user made it on Incubator and I copied it and pasted on ST wiki. Please. Pietras1988 ^TALK 11:34, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've tried my best, but there is some stuff that I couldn't make out. Edit the article and look at the commented text (<-- blah -->) and just tell me what the original English.

Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 13:52, 14 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very thanks. Your help is very good! First sentence with "blah" mean how on EN wiki "Kurów is capital of a separate gmina, a municipality, within the Lublin Voivodeship". Two "blah" I googled and I search that this word mean "afterwards" or "consequently". Pietras1988 ^TALK 19:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pietras1988 (talk • contribs) [reply]

TheWhere!?

Thanks for the welcome back, though here's where I'd rather be...

By the way what did you just do to Sotho language? — mark ✎ 13:57, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why, what's wrong? I moved some of the stuff to Sesotho grammar. Bye (I'm gone now -- I promise). Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 14:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey! That Akpafu place looks ultra-cool (now I'm REALLY gone). Tebello TheWHAT!!?? 14:06, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, good that you're branching off subarticles. Next time use an edit summary! — mark ✎ 08:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not Vandalism

What I did was not vandalism! When people type in "Ubuntu" on Wikipedia, most want to know of the Linux distro, not the ideology or the foundation. It says specifically on top of the Ubuntu page "This article is about the Linux distro. For more uses, see Ubuntu (disambiguation). I was trying to help the community. Peteturtle 20:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]