Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Welcome to the miscellaneous section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

March 23

Edits by Edward321 Help

disputed edits belong at the article's or editor's talk pages, or WP:ANI, but NOT here. μηδείς (talk) 22:46, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Please would you check the edits made on 22 and 23 March 2017 by Edward321 to the Wikipedia entry "Nader El-Bizri" and to some of its associated Wikipedia reference entries. The edits of Edward321 are extreme and radical and this might need some editorial intervention from your senior editors to look into them 2A02:C7D:36C6:8300:ED41:35E8:6F5B:3CE5 (talk) 14:29, 23 March 2017 (UTC) Hello, IP editor. I see that, before you posted this request, you reverted two of Edward321's edits to Nader El-Bizri. You are entitled to revert edits that you think are not good, but rather than then launching an appeal to "senior editors" (who don't exist: some are more experienced than others, but there is not a hierarchy of seniority like that), you should discuss the matter with Edward321, normally on the article's talk page: see WP:BRD. If you think this is not just a disagreement about content but a behavioural issue (eg vandalism), you may post a request on the WP:administrators' noticeboard/incidents or WP:Administrator intervention against vandalism noticeboards; but if you do so you must have attempted to engage with the editor in question first. For what it's worth, I can't see any problem with Edward321's edits to that article, but I know next to nothing about the subject. --ColinFine (talk) 22:21, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

March 24

Cold War

When did the Cold War begin? Some say that it began with Churchill's Iron Curtain speech in 1946, others that it began with the Berlin blockade in 1948. So which is it -- or was there yet another event which started it? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 07:03, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

The article says "Historians do not fully agree on the dates." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:35, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

12 April 1945 - because while Roosevelt felt that it was possible to do a deal with Stalin, Truman didn't trust him. So Truman becoming president was the moment at which the course of East-West relations changed. Wymspen (talk) 18:51, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

This is yet another Platonic Ideal question that assumes words have meanings in the way that bodies have mass. A term has a meaning in a context, and it is up to the user to define his term (on some reasonable basis) and use it consistently. We cannot give such REAL DEFINITIONS here, just refer to how people use such terms. μηδείς (talk) 21:13, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Wymspen, that date you quoted would be, like, your personal opinion, no? Unless it overrides the statement from our article quoted by Baseball Bugs. In which case, of course, you would have a reference to that effect, wouldn't you? So, don't be shy, let's have it. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:30, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

How do they prove when people are faking mental illness for welfare payments

How does the disability benefits agency prove when people are faking mental illness? It's easy when people claim to have a bad back or a lost leg and then they are caught working cash in hand on a building site. But how can faked mental illness be proved? For example anxiety, depression and schizophrenia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.10.85.15 (talk) 09:08, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

PS: I do not know why this keeps being deleted. Welfare fraud / Disability fraud is a very real thing and a big issue for the economies of many countries. This is a valid question and very reasonable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.10.85.15 (talk) 09:50, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

There are criteria for diagnosing mental disorders just as much as for other illnesses, e.g. the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. It's not easier to fake, say, a depression than to fake an unspecified back pain. In legal situations, illnesses are diagnosed using standard criteria by suitable experts - normally a qualified physician. If there is reason to doubt one diagnosis, a second or third expert can be consulted. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 11:40, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

• OP, you are providing us with the answers (you've linked to the relevant articles) and you are asking us to conduct a broad discussion of the topic, not any specific case,law, disease, or jurisdiction. Per the guidelines at the top of the page, that is why someone has previously deleted your question, and we can't answer it. Specific requests for articles or links on specific topics are much better. μηδείς (talk) 01:19, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Continuing disputes over Nader El-Bizri

disputes over articles do not belong at the ref desks; see admin warning below
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Dear Administrators, please help with professional edits in checking whether tags added and/or restored in connection with the entry "Nader El-Bizri" are justified, and kindly assist in directing this query to administrators or professional editors who can help improve it. Apologies if this query is not directed to the right administrators but perhaps you can kindly help with this matter. Thanks2A02:C7D:36C6:8300:3DE7:5B4A:4EE8:E3CB (talk) 10:55, 24 March 2017 (UTC) When referencing an article here please wikilink it, so that we can easily go to it ourselves: Nader El-Bizri. I only looked at the first few references, but: Ref 1 doesn't work Ref 2 is not independent of the subject Ref 3 isn't a reference at all, but a footnote, as are several others. Refs 4 and 5 are both by the subject. We need multiple substantial independent references from reliable sources to show that Dr El-Bizri is notable and qualifies for an article. There are no "professional editors" who can help you with this, nor is this within the remit of those volunteers who have been granted administrator powers. The tags currently on the article seem to me to be completely justified. Rojomoke (talk) 11:33, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, 2A02:C7D:36C6:8300:3DE7:5B4A:4EE8:E3CB. Since you're editing from many fluctuating IPs in the 2A02:C7D:36C6:8300::/64 range, I'll speak to you here rather than on one of your many user talkpages, which you're less likely to see. If you continue to remove the tags, I will block the entire range you have access to. Bishonen | talk 15:44, 24 March 2017 (UTC).

Bills in the UK parliament

When a bill is voted on in the House of Commons (or Lords), is there a minimum number of votes that have to be cast in order for the bill to pass? 2A02:C7D:5DC6:3F00:E59B:1141:7F95:B5DE (talk) 21:44, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Having found the answer in the relevant public business Standing Orders (Commons #41 and Lords #57, if anyone cares), there is indeed a minimum number of votes. Forty in the Commons (counting the Speaker or his deputy) and thirty in the Lords. As far as I can see, however, this only applies if the question is pressed to a division (vote). If the person in the chair just says "I think the ayes have it" and no one says to the contrary, then since there is no procedure for counting there can't be a minimum number. 128.232.236.110 (talk) 22:17, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you very much! 2A02:C7D:5DC6:3F00:E59B:1141:7F95:B5DE (talk) 22:31, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

That's interesting, because these things are generally the same in Canada, but this one isn't. See Canada Day#History, the paragraph about how it was renamed by private member's bill. --76.71.6.254 (talk) 23:07, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

The relevant article is Quorum. Alansplodge (talk) 10:37, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Ah no, I think that is the minimum number of members present in the chamber for a division to be held. But that said, as long as the minimum number of members is present, they can conduct business and debate legislation. A majority of those present is what's required to pass any motion, including a bill. If all 650 members are present (a rare event), then 326 votes would be required. If only the bare quorum of 40 members are present, a bill can pass with only 21 votes. That's if there's a division. But if it's just on the ayes, as 128.232.236.110 says above, it could be as few as 1 aye vs. zero nos. So there is an actual minimum number, 1. But that's unlikely. The most likely minimum is a majority of 40, or 21. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:39, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd note that if I'm understanding Standing Order 37, a debate can't be closed (or a question decided) without at least 100 members voting in support if there is a division, so actually getting to passing legislation could potentially be problematic if there is opposition even with 40.

Also does the House of Commons in the UK actually require a majority of those present to vote in favour? I was under the impression it was like most parliaments and only required a majority to vote in favour, and a person could abstain/not vote despite being present. (I'm sure it's somewhere in the Standing Orders but I couldn't work out where.) This generally means unless there is a minimum number required (as there is but only when it comes to divisions), you can actually pass legislation with only 1 vote if all other members even if present simply don't vote. This sort of situation may be unlikely, but abstaining/not voting isn't completely irrelevant since in very close votes it can be the difference between something passing.

I'd also note that the article linked above and its source suggests the Canadian House of Commons also has a quorom but for general business and it requires someone to call attention to the lack of it except during the beginning of the sitting where the speaker may take the initiative. This includes if it becomes clear during a division. Also since the Canadian one is only for conduction business, it's still possible for a bill to pass with only one vote even if someone objects to the lack of quorom etc if only one person votes. If 20 are present and vote you'd need 11 but by comparison in the UK case 40 need to take part in the division which means 21 in support however many are present (but again there needs to be a division).

Nil Einne (talk) 23:51, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

@Nil Einne: "a debate can't be closed (or a question decided) without at least 100 members voting in support if there is a division" -- that refers to closure, which is to say aborting the debate when there are members who still want to speak on it. If everybody who wants to speak has done so, there is no need for a cloture motion or an adjournment motion; the question can be put straight away. jnestorius^(talk) 14:08, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

But a member can Filibuster#United Kingdom right? So I stick by my point, the rules seem to make it difficult getting to pass legislation with only 40 members, if there is sufficient smart opposition, assuming the 40 members thing isn't fairly long term. You would probably need more than 1 person opposing, since the 100 only comes up when there is a division and it seems likely the speaker would decide the division was unnecessary claimed if it was only one person. But definitely with something like 21-19, there seems to me to be a fair chance the speaker would proceed to a division if one is claimed. So while 21-19 would be enough to pass a bill even with division, actually getting to pass may be problematic. Nil Einne (talk) 14:26, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I believe the convention in answering questions like the original one is that, for the purposes of getting the number as low as possible, we may make whatever additional assumptions suit us best; in this case, assuming there are no opponents. I see nothing in the original question requiring us to assume "there is sufficient smart opposition". Your answer of 100 votes may be valid for any number of opponents between 1 and 99, but it is not valid for larger numbers or for none at all. The smallest number guaranteed to suffice against any number of opponents is 325. jnestorius^(talk) 14:59, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

March 25

SSBSA degree

Does anybody know what SSBSA (and its not the Somerset Small Bore Shooting Association) stands for? It came up in a résumé the other day where the applicant stated they had, along with some others, an SSBSA degree. They received it from St. Lawrence College which given they went to Queen's University is probably St. Lawrence College, Ontario. I looked at the St. Lawrence site but didn't see anything. The degree may have some relationship to real estate. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 01:54, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

The applicant may mean Queens Australia in which case it make sense. Can't remember what SSBSA stands for but it is a degree. The applicant must have included a email address. If only for your own further edification contact him for more clarification. When writing a résumé one strives for brevity to get everything in and maybe the applicant assumed too much. If the applicant does come from the sunny, warm climes of Australia, may be worth considering why in the hell would he desire to work in Cambridge Bay? He may have a very good reason and which cold make him a good employee. It is a skill of really good employer to spot the right applicant out of all the other mediocre applicants that have all the right qualification... but not the drive. i.e. All show but no go.--Aspro (talk) 11:36, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Fearing I was falling in to the same bad habits of some other editors here, who just spout things off the top of their head … had a little google around. It is only one letter away from Senior Secondary Board of South Australia (SSBSA). Perhaps typographical error on the résumé. Don't guess -find out from the horse's mouth.--Aspro (talk) 11:59, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

What's the distinction between SSBSA (per the OP) and SSBSA (as you state above)? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:05, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

SSBSA is recognized by most as a degree, whilst SSABSA is not. It is the applicant’s responsibility, when there is doubt, to clarify things to the prospective employer's satisfaction. Which I assume is why CambridgeBayWeather is asking. Up in his neck-of-the-woods (or should that be tundra) these non- north American qualifications may make no sense at all. So, is it not natural for him to ask on WP for extra input. Think the very fact that Cambridge has asked at all, is because he knows how to read a résumé. That is not the issue. It is just that (I think) he has come across a qualification that does not ring all the right bells – so he is asking.--Aspro (talk) 13:01, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Where are you seeing SSABSA? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:04, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Don't know if you have ever heard of an online encyclopedia called Wikipedia? That has lots of articles about this, that, and everything. It even has an article South Australian Certificate of Education which mentions the Senior Secondary Assessment Board of South Australia (SSABSA) in the second paragraph!--Aspro (talk) 13:47, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the link and hence the clarification. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:57, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

(ec) Thanks. The SSABSA is the Senior Secondary Assessment Board of South Australia, the article is at South Australian Certificate of Education. The person is in Canada and it is the Queen's in Ontario they are talking about. Unfortunately, we can't/don't contact candidates prior to interviews. That is the résumé and cover letter must contain sufficient information, along with at least a Bachelor of Education degree (they had that), to make us want to interview them. We have had applicants from Australia, and several other countries, before but not this time. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 14:13, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

So, what is this "Queens Australia", Aspro? Do you mean Queensland? I'm not following this supposed Australian connection. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:25, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

As you should know better than I. An Aussie uses a lazy laid back vernacular dialect that is very similar to English. Assuming, that if he is an alumni of Queens, the whole ruddy world should know he is referring to Queen's because Australia is the center of the whole universe from his point of view. At least, that is the impression that Aussies give when they travel abroad. --Aspro (talk) 22:11, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Can you provide some evidence that there are actually many Australians, even self centred ones if you desire, who refer to the University of Queensland as Queen's University? Americans are often said to be self centred as well, but it doesn't mean they're likely to refer to New York as simply 'York'. Especially since so far the only Aussie here has found this odd, and we've already had a claim SSBSA is some sort of degree in Australia only for a later correction that it was SSABSA and did not award degrees (nor was really part of university except I guess a path to admittance), something which a quick search told at least some of us was likely the case before this correction was offered. Nil Einne (talk) 22:57, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Err. It was actually 'me' that pointed it out the difference between SSBSA & SSABSA if you have bothered read all the above. So don't see what your point is.--Aspro (talk) 00:05, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Maybe my response wasn't clear enough. I knew you were the one who offered the correction. As I said, I found out for myself that there was no common SSBSA degree associated with Australia before you offered the correction because a simple search told me this. (As it told me about the guy who works for SGI with the SSBSA job title [1].) A search you didn't do initially but instead relied on a memory which doesn't seem very reliable for things Australian.

The simple fact is you offered a nonsense claim, about SSBSA being a degree associated with Australia and only later corrected yourself on both points. Yes it's good you corrected yourself and relatively fast unlike certain other contributors, but the simple solution is not to make such claims without being extremely certain of your memory or double checking before you post.

More importantly, given you track record, it's entirely reasonably that we're reluctant to trust you when you claim that they abbreviate the University of Queensland to Queen's University. Especially since no one else including the only Australian here has ever heard of such a thing.

Note that no one ever said that people don't abbreviate except you. All that was said it we find Queens University an unlikely abbreviation of the UoQ. I'd note the first thing someone is likely to abbreviate is University anyway.

To give a related example, if someone told me they went to Universiti Kebangsaan Malay, I would have to question the likelihood they went to Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia because it's simply not a common abbreviation. Similar to the way Malay is not a common abbreviation for Malaysia. M'sia on the other hand.... ("Malay" could be a typo, although more likely to be indicative the person doesn't really appreciate the difference. I'd note even a Malay nationalist isn't likely to abbreviate Malaysia to Malay.) Of course the most common abbreviation for Universiti Kebangsaan Malaysia is UKM. If greater clarity is needed I can imagine a bunch of things like "Uni Kebangsaan M'sia" or maybe even "Uni K'saan M'sia" or "Uni K'saan M'sia" (although no one else seems to have used either the later 2 on the Google search internet). But not Universiti Kebangsaan Malay or really anything with Malay in it.

Likewise I may say I went to UoA or Auckland Uni or Akld Uni or Akl U or a bunch or other things. Or yes even Auck Uni or Auck U and heck it seems a bunch of people even use Auck University. But if someone says they went to Aland University, I'm more likely to think they went to Åland University of Applied Sciences than the University of Auckland. And if someone says they went to "A'land University" or "A-land University" and they meant the UoA, I'm going to question the likelihood they actually went there because it's simply not a common abbreviation.

I mean sure no one can rule out some weird dude abbreviation it that way. It seems likely at least one reason why this question arose is because an uncommon abbreviation was used (although there's a far chance whatever it is is also a lot less common than the name of a university). But there reaches a point where you have to say that's so unlikely to be not worth considering. And even without seeing the resume or the clarification from CBW, we have to consider that this person would have to have not only abbreviated UoQ to Queen's Uni, they would have had to misspelled SSABSA to SSBSA and referred to a degree when the SSABSA doesn't award them.

Nil Einne (talk) 10:42, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I was once a student at the Uni of Queensland, and I've never heard it referred to as "Queens". Not even in common parlance, let alone on a CV. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:05, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Oh, so. When every other University post-students from all over the world abbreviate – you and your alumni alone, always give the full title of The University of Queensland, Australia. Oh come on... pull the other leg.--Aspro (talk) 00:29, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

I've never heard anybody (Australian or otherwise) abbreviate Queensland to "Queens". Alansplodge (talk) 00:52, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

UQ is the usual abbreviation, to my knowledge. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:04, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

And I'm guessing UQ would be understood by most Aussies, just as UoA is understood by most Kiwis and UKM is understood by most Malaysians; which further reinforces the point. A self-centred Aussie may talk about UQ expecting everyone to understand they're referring the the University of Queensland, even though it's perhaps reasonable people won't. There's no particular reason to expect them to use an abbreviation which will probably make most Aussies think they didn't actually go to university in Australia. Nil Einne (talk) 10:28, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Not sure if this is the same thing, but I found "EDUCATION / TRAINING / CERTIFICATIONS: B.A.-B.PHE. / B.ED. / SSBSA 1976 / 1997 Queen’s University & St. Lawrence College Kingston, ON (definitely nothing to do with Queensland though). Alansplodge (talk) 23:46, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Also "Independent Real Estate Professional - Education - Queen's University B.A-B.PHE.-B.ED., PHE & Psychology - I also got a SSBSA Degree from St. Lawrence College". Possibly something to do with Social Science and Behavioural Science? Alansplodge (talk) 00:02, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

That's the candidate. I had seen the second while looking for the degree. Interesting that he is the only one that turns up. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 00:45, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Finding an article that lists mature topics/categories.

I was previously referencing an article here for ideas on what disallow from a forum (which sounds weird, I know). It contained a list of "mature" topics that were extremely specific, like "use of a sharp object to insert into another person" or something along those lines. While it was very detailed it was described in the most clean-english possible. Described vulgar acts without actually being vulgar. I was using it for an art section of the forum to define specifically is and isn't allowed. A year later and I cannot for the life of me find such an article again and never bookmarked it and it would be very helpful if anyone happened to know of such an article that had such examples. I already checked the Motion picture content rating system, Motion Picture Association of America film rating system, Entertainment Software Rating Board, and a few other pages on various rating systems hoping it was a part of those to no avail so it must be a more broad article on mature topics. Causticism (talk) 15:27, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm having trouble understanding your question. You're looking for a Wikipedia article that had a list of mature topics? Like, different kinds of violence or sexual acts described using euphemistic language? Seems like an odd thing have an article on. List of euphemisms just redirects to euphemism. Do you recall if it was just a simple list, perhaps in a table, or was it an actual prose article? Maybe looking through our articles on euphemism and slang will trigger your memory. Matt Deres (talk) 00:21, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, sorry it's hard to explain. The article didn't have a table but a section that simply had comma-listed examples of what is and isn't considered mature for some sort of rating system. If I'm not mistaken it was a rating system for more "static artistic" works rather than motion pictures or video games. It did have euphemistic-like language but still very blunt and to the point. Causticism (talk) 05:17, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

For some bizarre reason, our ratings organizations are categorized into two groups: Category:Entertainment rating organizations and Category:Media content ratings systems. If what you saw was an article about a ratings system it should presumably be on one of these lists if it hasn't been deleted. If you do happen to find what you're looking for, I'd be interested in seeing which one it was. Matt Deres (talk) 12:36, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Potato question

What's the difference between a Salad Potato, a Baking Potato, White Potato, or a Baby Potato? Besides the price I mean. Are they all the same thing but just different sizes, or are they different species? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CyanDong (talk • contribs) 18:35, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

According to Potato, they are all the same species, and there are several thousand varieties within the species. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:04, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

The different varieties have different characteristics when boiled (or cooked in other ways). For example, some remain firm and waxy whilst others go "fluffy" and fall apart when overcooked. There are also differences in flavour. A cook or a potato expert could explain much more eloquently than I can. See here or here for more detail. Dbfirs 21:09, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Here is an article (with photos) describing the types and uses of some common American potato varieties (and some weird and colorful ones too) Rmhermen (talk) 23:00, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

• Having worked as a cooking the US NE, there are basically bakers and boilers. The TGIF restaurant chain used bakers to make fries, which surprised me. Russets are bakers, they don't crinkle up. Reds and whites are boilers. But this all seems very subjective, and I would read the various articles. In any case, My (Rusyn) mom makes red boilers for St. Patrick's and russets otherwise. She used to use whites to make whipped potatoes, but hasn't for about 30 years.μηδείς (talk) 04:44, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Dora, Alabama

According to the Dora, Alabama article it is in Walker County, but according to the Walker County, Alabama article it is 'partly in Jefferson County' but this is not mentioned in the Jefferson County, Alabama article. The city website doesn't mention Jefferson County, but I have found www.allplaces.us/z/35062 which states it is in Jefferson County, can this be used as a valid source for the statement that the city is partly in Jefferson County ? Thanks GrahamHardy (talk) 23:43, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Hard to know what the town's actual city limits are, but if you google Jefferson County, the town of Dora looks to be well outside of it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:03, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

The A Short History of Dora on the City of Dora Council website says that it is (or at least, was) "in East Walker County". Alansplodge (talk) 00:42, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

However, there is a County Line Rd, Dora which suggests that the boundary runs along the edge of the built-up area. Alansplodge (talk) 00:46, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Searches in Google Maps for cities or counties generally display their boundaries. Search for "walker county AL" and you will see Dora near the southwest side, about halfway between Interstate 22 and state highway 5. Now change the search to "Dora AL" and fix your eye on the city as the result displays. You will see the city shown entirely within Walker County. I presume Google Maps gets the boundaries from a reliable source, but it is always possible that the source is out of date. --76.71.6.254 (talk) 03:09, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

I sounds as if we should ignore www.allplaces.us then, or is it using the concept of a postal address (as sometimes in the UK)? GrahamHardy (talk) 13:44, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Ooh, you may be onto something there. If you do a Google Maps search on just plain 35062, which is the ZIP code for Dora, you get a larger area that does extend into Jefferson County. But normally when we speak of where a city is located, we mean its official city limits and not to postal addressing. --76.71.6.254 (talk) 06:37, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

• We run into this a LOT where people don't know the difference between postal address and city limits. I live near Garner, North Carolina, and constantly have to correct that article when someone adds Johnston County, North Carolina to it. The incorporated city lies entirely within Wake County, but some of the unincorporated areas of nearby Johnston County have Garner addresses. Those places are not in Garner however, they just have their mail delivered by a Garner post office. --Jayron32 14:49, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
  • Presumably because the Garner post office is closer? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:45, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
    • Not all towns have their own zip code. The unincorporated town I grew up in was in Gloucester County, NJ, but the zip was that of the next incorporated town over in Camden County. Our mail often came with the other town's name on it. (One benefit of this was we got free county library passes to the Camden County Library which was University-quality.) The sovereign municipality of which my unincorporated town was a part has at least three zip codes, all associated with other municipalities. The Post Office would not grant our municipality its own zip code because there are already five other town(ship)s with the same name in the state. Mail delivered to me at the Camden zip was inaccurate, but unambiguous, and mechanically sortable. Mail delivered to me with my township's name, but without a zip, might be routed to any of six counties in the state, and would require manual sorting. μηδείς (talk) 16:35, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
      • Of course, this sort of confusion doesn't happen in New England as much, where the New England town system has essentially the entire population covered by incorporated municipalities. --Jayron32 16:46, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)An extreme example is the county of Middlesex which no longer exists administratively but survives in postal addresses and sports club affiliations. Towns tend to be built on rivers and rivers tend to delineate county boundaries. Thus Caversham, a suburb of Reading in Berkshire, was in Oxfordshire until 1911. The promise of a new bridge over the Thames induced the residents to change allegiance. The Oxford suburb of Botley was in Berkshire until comparatively recently. Eton was in Buckinghamshire when its bridge over the Thames was shut. The bridge wasn't rebuilt until it had been moved into Berkshire. Postcodes can cater for areas in different countries - the Welsh Marches have an "SY" postcode which relates to Shrewsbury, which is in Shropshire, England. New Jersey/New York is another example. 86.169.56.176 (talk) 16:59, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

March 26

What does the t-shirt say?

Starting at 1:55 and 4:30 in this video, David Gilmour and Nick Mason, respectively, are wearing a t-shirt that says something like "____ Washington University". I'm having trouble making out the name of the school. Can I get a hand finding out? Thanks, †dismas†|^(talk) 12:53, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Could be George Washington. Some googling give shirts that look quite similar [2] and it seems that they recorded a live album there in 1971. 128.141.114.93 (talk) 13:34, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, I think you're right. Although the font and style of the shirt is a pretty standard thing amongst US universities, the rest matches up well to the specific circumstances. They played at Lisner Auditorium on 16 November 1971 for the Meddle tour (unless it's included in the recently release box sets, not a live album recording) and Obscured by Clouds (the images were taken from the recording sessions for that album) was recorded in February - April of '72.

So, thanks very much!! I appreciate it! †dismas†|^(talk) 13:53, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

March 27

New York subway

How long is the longest transfer passageway in the New York subway? Would that be the passageway between the Times Square station complex and the Port Authority Bus Terminal station, or between the Bryant Park station and the 5th Avenue station on the Flushing line, or would that be some other passageway (if so, which one)? Also, about how long on average is a typical passageway between stations? And last but not least, a related question: What's the largest vertical separation (in flights of stairs) between stations in a multilevel station complex in the New York subway, and which complex would that be? 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:54FD:1B3C:D13B:29E6 (talk) 07:45, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

I don't know what's longest but Penn Station must be longer. The other two start west of 7th/5th Avenue but the Penn Station transfer is the full distance between the avenues. The megacomplex between Fulton Street and the World Trade Center area's even longer and still growing. Maybe not what you wanted but you can get in the Grand Central–42nd Street (New York City Subway) station at 3rd Avenue walk on the 7 train platform, go up to the 456 train area between Lexington and Park Avenue, and go through the transfer tunnel to the S train and get out at I think Madison Avenue. That's longer than Penn Station. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 12:46, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

There is no swipeless transfer between different railways at Penn Station; you have to leave system at the A line to get to the 1 line on the next avenue over, and even if there were a tunnel it would be a damn lot directer than some of the transfers at Union Square or 42nd Street. It should be easy enough to google this to get an answer, but my travels have been along a limited number of lines. μηδείς (talk) 16:22, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

You're right, now I remember you can only use the Penn Station transfer for free if you have an unlimited Metrocard. 14th Street between 7th and 6th is a real example of a Penn Station-style long block transfer but Fulton Center's probably longer. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 17:01, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)In London there is a long passageway between Bank and Embankment Stations. To transfer between Island Gardens and Cutty Sark you walk under the river Thames. Above ground there is a long covered walkway between Hackney Central and Hackney Downs. 86.169.56.176 (talk) 16:42, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

lol 86.169.56.176, you're seventeen years out of date. The Island Gardens line was extended to Lewisham in 1999. — O Fortuna! ^{Imperatrix mundi.} 04:05, 28 March 2017 (UTC

Monument, not Embankment. And, well, the question was about New York. --76.71.6.254 (talk) 20:22, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Right -- I'm tentatively planning for the Subway Challenge (not the Tube Challenge), and I want to know how much time would it realistically take to transfer between different lines. 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 00:31, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Ride in the conductor's car or a not nearly empty car in bad neighborhoods. The first stop after a river tunnel is often very deep (like 100 foot escalators), the deepest train in the Times Square and Grand Central complexes is the 7, do NOT transfer during 9 to 5s' commutes if you want quick, maybe don't get on a Manhattan bound train scheduled to stop in Manhattan before 9 or the Financial District before markets open at 9:30 (the infrequent service of weekends and holidays probably makes them slower than weekdays. I don't know if Black Friday has a weekday schedule and fewer people to make boarding take forever, maybe try that), plan late night transfers wisely because it's 20 minutes between trains, if your rules allow express note that some expresses only exist in rush hour or at least not late night. You might not want to take the Manhattan Bridge or the N/Q to Brooklyn more than once - it's slow like hell (to prevent wear and tear on the bridge), the fastest train in the system is the 60th Street Tunnel probably westbound from Queensboro Plaza because it's a mostly straight, steep (by train standards) 50 meter drop. But not when trains are too close together and drivers bleed off some speed every time they see a mildly advisory light even though they have plenty of time to stop before running a red light automatically brakes the train and it's designed to be impossible for a rear end to happen no matter how fast it's going, how defective the throttle dead man's switch is and how close to the near end of the signal block the next train is when a red light is run. If you want to know which transfers are short and which are long I can tell you (not every last one, I haven't been everywhere but I did use my 3rd free ride/day on the student free Metrocard to see lots of parts of the subway I never would've otherwise). Tell me what time you got if you try it. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:28, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

The "conductor's car" is ambiguous. It may mean the first or the middle car, since in many trains the driver's and conductor's job has been consolidated. The middle car is considered the safe car, usually has the conductor, and is also the most crowded. (The middle car is usually by the turnstiles when the train stops, but not at all locations) It's a horrible idea to ride there in a race unless you are a vulnerable person. Ride in the last car, which will have the least number of riders. Unless you look like you expect to be mugged. On the 6 line I used to see Macho Camacho shadow boxing all the time, and was never molested. I can give a little help regarding trips from the South and West Bronx, and Manhattan. Is there a print of the route? μηδείς (talk) 03:54, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Right, if a car's the slightest bit crowded then don't stay there. Unless the shortest transfer's from that car (prewalking) then see how crowded adjacent cars are and guess what's quicker. Be the first to stand up so you're not behind several people at the door, know which side the doors will open, I know exactly which side of which door of which car is quickest at stations I use enough (i.e. second-to-last car, right rear door, front half, go diagonally forward 2 yards), knowing these might help. Despite not being allowed, walking between cars is almost 100% guaranteed to not result in a ticket (I've done it about 10000 times and been warned twice and never ticketed, once cause I sat on the end seat quick upon realizing this is likely the first and last seat I'll ever see and the cop didn't know I was too nearsighted to see him, not evading a warrant) except some police are still stupidly legalistic or racist so I probably had it easy. The L train and any others with communication based train control has no driver so the front will have no employee I think. CBTC is being phased in very slowly. I've heard CBTC will not allow trains to go through the 60th Street Tunnel as fast but allow trains to come more than once every 2 minutes in rush hour at the same speed where it's not a long fast downhill section. Sometimes there's a car or part of a car with an unusual shortage of people. This is of course because of something extremely stinky like a homeless person or piece of fish on the floor (I saw it). I do not know how bad the smell is if you hold your nose and breathe through your mouth. On that note, heat and long periods thereof makes trains smell like body odor. High heat also makes the air density lower. If that reduces air resistance enough to make a difference or if they are bound to slow down a bit if they're ahead of schedule I don't know. If the first go on the first heat wave of the year for that extra edge. The schedules probably don't take air density into account. Shuttles like the S, Rockaway trains (sometimes) and the M during track work are so short there's probably only a driver. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:04, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

I am not personally worried about safety (despite being a white guy and a proud Deplorable as well) -- I have a black belt in karate, and besides, my route will take me through the really dangerous parts of town in the morning and mid-afternoon, whereas the late-night hours will be spent in the relative safety of midtown Manhattan and Queensboro. As for the scheduling issues, I'll be spending most of the morning rush hour on the northbound A train (I expect to reach the end of the line in Inwood about 8:30 AM and transfer there to the southbound A train, and then to the southbound D train at 145th Street, after which I plan to stay on board until 36th Street in Brooklyn), whereas most of the evening rush hour will be spent riding the various IRT lines in the Bronx. As for Times Square, this is where I plan to transfer from the E train to the 7 train -- which I plan to do late at night (20-minute intervals!), and which I will only have about 3 minutes to do, which is why I'm asking about how long the passageway is and how many flights of stairs there are at the eastern end. (This, however, is contingent on me catching the eastbound R train from either 57th Street or Lexington Avenue to Roosevelt Avenue before that route shuts down for the night -- if not, then I'll have to take the alternate route, which I don't remember off the top of my head and which probably will not allow me to beat the current record of 24 hours and 2 minutes.) The other two complexes I'm concerned about are Bryant Park (long passageway) and Court Square (lots of stairs). Oh, and I plan to do all this on a weekday (to take maximum advantage of the expresses). 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 05:36, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

3 minutes? RUN! What if your train leaves sightly early? How long depends on uptown E or downtown E? About 1 flight of stairs up at Times Square ACE and 1 flight down at Times Square 7. How many minutes for Bryant Park? Which Court Square to which Court Square? One is much longer. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 05:43, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Southbound E to westbound 7 -- and it's a big relief that there's only 1 flight of stairs at each end :-) If the 7 train leaves early (or the E train arrives late), though, I'm f**ked -- then I'll have to wait for 20 minutes or so for the next train. For Bryant Park, I don't have a precise time, but it will also be about 2-3 minutes to get from the eastbound 7 to the northbound F; as for Court Square, I'll have to get from the westbound 7 to the southbound G (and I don't remember exactly, but that, too, might be a 2-minute connection). 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 08:15, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Is there no disability legislation in America? Do stations not provide step-free access? As for transit under the river Thames you may sometimes have to use the Greenwich foot tunnel, for example if you have your cycle with you during the rush hour. I'm not sure exactly how the restriction on the Docklands Light Railway works - if you board off - peak but reach Island Gardens (southbound) or Cutty Sark (northbound) at the start of the rush hour do you have to detrain and go through the tunnel? 81.151.128.189 (talk) 11:13, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

The river Thames? The Dockland Light Railway? You must have meant the East River and the Roosevelt Island Tramway, respectively! 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 12:17, 28 March 2017 (UTC)