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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Carnildo (talk | contribs) at 19:26, 15 August 2023 (→‎Mahach Kala gas station explosion). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Click here to nominate an item for In the news. In the news toolbox
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This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Tadej Pogačar in June 2022
Tadej Pogačar

view — page history — related changes — edit

Glossary

  • Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
    • Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
    • A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
  • Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
  • The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.

All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.

Nomination steps

  • Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
  • Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
  • Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
  • You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.

The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.

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Headers

  • When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
  • Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
    • If satisfied, change the header to (Posted).
    • Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted).
    • Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).

Voicing an opinion on an item

Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.

Please do...

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  1. Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten.
  2. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page.
  3. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible.

Please do not...

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  1. Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself.
  2. Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
  3. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest.
  4. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
  5. Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here.
  6. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive.

Suggesting updates

There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items:

  • Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors.
  • Discuss major changes in the blurb's intent or very complex updates as part of the current ITNC nomination.
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Archives


August 15

August 15, 2023 (2023-08-15) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Sports

RD: Bobby Baun

Article: Bobby Baun (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sportsnet, CBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Toronto Maple Leafs legend. Article is orange-tagged and needs extensive ref work. The Kip (talk) 18:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mohammed Habib (footballer)

Article: Mohammed Habib (footballer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Hindu
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian football player and captain Fahads1982 (talk) 14:48, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Bindeshwar Pathak

Article: Bindeshwar Pathak (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Business Today
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 11:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 14

August 14, 2023 (2023-08-14) (Monday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

Mahach Kala gas station explosion

Article: 2023 Mahachkala gas station explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A gas station explosion in Mahach Kala, Dagestan kills 35. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ A gas station explosion in Mahachkala, Dagestan, Russia, kills 35.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Russia, an explosion at a gas station in Mahachkala kills 35.
News source(s): https://apnews.com/article/russia-explosion-dagestan-0565233354e942ad1481eb5ade1aa53c
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: fairly high death toll (35) for Europe imo, if this was like Congo or India I'd get not posting it, but I was shoked that a day after there wasn't even an article about it on the english wiki, let alone a discussion on this forum about posting it onto the wikipedia's main page --Daikido (talk) 13:49, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - "if this was like Congo or India", really? We're not here to reinforce the Euro-American bias, a tragedy doesn't become more or less tragic just because of where it happened. Chaotic Enby (talk) 15:43, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Same user that opposed a prior nom because, and I quote, “global warming’s fake imo,” bluntly WP:FRINGE. This user also has prior warnings for inappropriate behavior at ITNC, edit wars, and so on (including apparently using a slur in a prior nom).
I would strongly recommend they read and review ITNC do’s and dont’s before they continue to contribute in this manner, and I’m honestly somewhat convinced at the moment they’re WP:NOTHERE. If someone else proposes sanctions or the like, I'd be inclined to support as well. The Kip (talk) 16:02, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keeping things from getting too derailed. The Kip (talk) 18:36, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
At the risk of severely derailing this whole nom, I am strongly opposed to any proposed sanctions; Daikido's recent contributions to ITN have been fairly mundane; all of the issues Kip referred to on his talk page are at least a year old and these incidents are often separated from each other by like half a year. The exception was the WP:FRINGE climate change denial, which while indefensible on an argumentative basis, is not grounds to levy sanctions against someone. Not to cast any WP:ASPERSIONS, but these accusations of WP:NOTHERE behavior and the like seems to stem from a disagreement on one editor's (admittedly wrong) belief regarding climate change, or in other words reeks of WP:DEADHORSE. Once you remove the global warming comment, nothing in Daikido's presence on ITN substantiates any sanctions. — Knightoftheswords 17:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
all of the issues Kip referred to on his talk page are at least a year old
The use of a slur in a prior nom occurred last month. The section of the talk page is quite directly named "July 2023." Their oppose vote to blurbing a stabbing attack in Canada because such incidents are common in the US was also less than a year ago.
Anyhow, I'm striking my NOTHERE/sanctions comment and hatting these two so as not to derail things too badly. The Kip (talk) 18:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support 115 casualties in an unusual explosion; though I'm not sure why the argument is being made that we wouldn't post if it was from Congo or India (the opposite is probably true). — Knightoftheswords 17:09, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Knightoftheswords281 Where did you get 115 casualties from? When I was editing this articles all the RSes were saying 35. If it’s increased that much the article and blurb should definitely be updated. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:13, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
35 died and 80 were injured. Do the math. — Knightoftheswords 17:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I thought casualties only referred to deaths. Sorry. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:17, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Common mistake, no problem. — Knightoftheswords 19:05, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
We'd probably post this in India, but in sub-Saharan Africa, there's a disturbingly common pattern of "fuel tanker crashes -> people congregate to gather spilled fuel -> fuel ignites, killing a hundred people". --Carnildo (talk) 19:25, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Trump indictment

Proposed image
Articles: 2020 Georgia election investigation (talk · history · tag) and Prosecution of Donald Trump in Georgia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A grand jury in Fulton County, Georgia indicts former U.S. president Donald Trump on racketeering and other charges in connection with an investigation into his attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Former U.S. president Donald Trump and 18 others are indicted for attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election in the state of Georgia.
News source(s): AP, NYT, CNN, NBC News, CBS News, ABC News, BBC, France24, DW, Sydney Morning Herald
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: The most important of the four indictments in my view. Davey2116 (talk) 04:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose — Fortunately, this should be the last time that a Trump indictment is nominated. In fairness, the indictment is sprawling, but the legal issues of Trump have already been covered on ITN. The role of the other eighteen defendants is far too intricate for the average reader—particularly outside of the United States—to properly give the same weight to as Trump, i.e. Kenneth Cheseboro's involvement into the attempts to overturn the election is not a particularly well-known fact. On a more general scale, an indictment is an allegation, not a conviction. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 05:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know if he is being investigated in Arizona. 331dot (talk) 08:50, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, this is the fourth indictment, and the third one is for essentially the same thing but at the federal level and didn't have a consensus to post. [1] Fun Is Optional (talk page) (please ping on reply) 05:02, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's a RICO indictment of a former POTUS. The cop out false equivalency is certainly a reason to oppose, just because they both share traits. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 07:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose We need convictions now. We wouldn't post a similar legal status for a former leader of another country. HiLo48 (talk) 05:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Oppose We are not Trumpedia. The first one might have been justified based on the novelty of a former POTUS being criminally indicted. But we are way past that. These repeated nominations that would never even be made for most other world leaders serve as strong evidence of the projects systemic bias. Enough. We can post the verdicts when they are handed down, which is what should have been our approach from the start. -Ad Orientem (talk) 05:06, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I would love to consider and support other nominations for former world leaders who are indicted for alleged crimes that occurred while they were in office, or related to their seeking office. We can't consider what isn't nominated. Too many postings is not a problem right now. 331dot (talk) 08:47, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose—I supported posting the first indictment because it was an exceptional circumstance; up to that point, no American president had ever been indicted for a crime. The novelty of the first indictment has worn off now that there have been four. The next time we should post about Trump's legal issues is if/when there's a verdict in one of the trials. Kurtis (talk) 05:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support - It's a RICO indictment of a former POTUS. But who are we kidding. Wikipedia's ITN is run randomly (if X random people log on and comment, no matter the logic, the numbers of Support/Oppose will decide the outcome). It's a RICO indictment of a former POTUS and a vote tally will decide if it is posted. Laughable, shameful, and contemptible does not begin to describe this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zombie Philosopher (talk • contribs) 07:26, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • There isn't a thing random about how ITN runs. —Cryptic 09:42, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Ah-ha right. Because the 10th train derailment of this year is more noteworthy news than a RICO indictment (or any indictment) of a former POTUS. lol k Zombie Philosopher (talk) 09:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Week-old sports tournaments that were never meaningfully in the news aren't more noteworthy either. I'm not saying it's ok that this is being opposed. I'm saying it's not random. —Cryptic 10:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      It is random in the fact that the decision to post or not post is largely based on the # of people supporting and # opposing, which is extremely gameable based on the few dozen people that post their vote, and it is extremely based on the amount of random people paying attention at any given time to what is up for consideration. Furthermore, people with agendas can be watching and skewing the tally which is the main consideration. Not the logic. Not some quantifiable objective metric of "what is actually in the news" aka "newsworthy enough to be featured on the #5 biggest website in the world". It isn't based on this. It is based on the random factor of how many people happen to be paying attention and decide to cast their vote. It's useless. Zombie Philosopher (talk) 10:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      We should really have more precise guidelines for what gets or doesn't get ITN. Right now, a few anonymous votes can decide what is deemed newsworthy enough for one of the biggest websites in the world, without any clear policy behind. I suggest this should be discussed with the wider community as to whether the current system should be kept or a more explicit set of guidelines be drafted. Chaotic Enby (talk) 15:21, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      Yeah it is a little strange how ITN is run atm. It's weird how a story like this is struck down for being almost routine at this point, yet we post the National Darts Championships or high death toll disasters without question. Not to say that these events aren't notable, but for a section called 'In The News' we don't seem to post what is actually In The News often, sometimes out of some moral point about the prevalence of domestic American politics in international discussion.
      For the record, I'm inclined to oppose this story, but I think we should honestly have some kind of convention to determine how exactly this section should be run. It feels like everyone has different ideas and philosophies about what deserves to be posted, and sometimes notability criteria gets a little ridiculous (see WP:MINIMUMDEATHS). PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:19, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • What's annoying too is that it's only the US that's treated this way. When Elizabeth II died last year, the entirety of Wikipedia, ITN included, completely turned themselves inside out to cover every nuance about it. ITN had both an ongoing event related to her funeral and if I recall, also at least two blurbs related to her death (one for her death, one for her funeral), and then this year we did the same thing with the coronation of Charles. -- RockstoneSend me a message! 13:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per all above. Thanks God this is not Trumpedia or USApedia. _-_Alsor (talk) 07:31, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I'm astonished at the opposition here. Is this ITN or isn't it? These people(and in this case, not just Trump) were nominated for allegedly running a criminal enterprise to overturn a democratic election. It's particularly ironic for Rudy Giuliani who jailed people as a federal prosecutor for RICO violations. ITN is withering on the vine here and it's sad. 331dot (talk) 08:42, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reluctant support I hate him and I hate talking about him, but it's not just the #1 story in the US, it's the #1 story on BBC News and ABC (Australia) and Le Monde and El Pais and... look, this is called In The News, and the story is the news right now. If the target article is up to snuff- which I think this one is, barely- then it's what we should be posting, whether we like it or not. -- Kicking222 (talk) 09:17, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Per ITNATA, we don't consider if a story is the top headline across news sources (or not) with ITNC, as we are not a news ticker. Masem (t) 12:16, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    How is a section literally called 'In The News' not a news ticker? Genuine question, not trying to be snarky. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The argument is that ITN doesn't just post whatever news happens, even if it's top news, it has a higher significance standard that needs to be met. That's why celebrity gossip or certain other types of stories (low death toll disasters, subnational politics, arbitrary records etc.) don't get posted. See WP:NOTATICKER for more details. Some people of course disagree with this philosophy. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 12:26, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I wouldn't disagree with it, but I do think the insistence of not being a news ticker is sometimes taken to extremes. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 14:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thank god ITN isn't nearly as important as its gatekeepers think it is. Kicking222 (talk) 15:34, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support it's the top story in the English-speaking world right now. Trump might lead the story, but the 18 others like Mark Meadows are a significant development. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 09:25, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment and idea I think this would definitely be noteworthy if it were the first one, but now that there've been multiple indictments I'm not sure it's worth posting them anymore. Perhaps an alternative solution would be to add Indictments against Donald Trump to "Ongoing". That way it wouldn't look like we were ignoring the situation, but we wouldn't have to post every update. That said, I'm not sure I even fully support this idea, just throwing it out there for discussion. 98.170.164.88 (talk) 11:27, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Ongoing would not work at this point as there are no presently waiting grand juries or similar that could add additional indictments, so now is just the waiting game while there are orders and other legal mumbo-jumbo that will go on prior to any trial date (with possibly the DC one as early as Jan). Ongoing stories are expected to have near-daily major updates which won't happen here. Masem (t) 12:15, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    IF there were an active trial and new things happening just about every day in said trial and IF there was a Wikipedia article that were being equally actively updated with said information, I could support that. This is not where we are right now. --Jayron32 13:17, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose - Good arguments to support, but personally I do think that a Trump-related story is nominated every week at this point. I think we should wait until these cases are settled in a court of law and post the result. I also think that there is a case to post the Trump Indictments to ongoing, however as others have pointed out the updates probably aren't frequent or consistent enough. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:22, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose/wait The general policy has always been that we post the conclusion of legal processes, not incremental steps along the way. Once any trial or legal proceedings has been completed, I would be fully on-board with posting, whatever the results. --Jayron32 12:29, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I thought the last one was the most important one? Also, per others, call back when there's a conviction. CoatCheck (talk) 12:36, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Alex Collins

Article: Alex Collins (American football) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Baltimore Ravens
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Another tragically young sports passing today, after Rodion Amirov. Article seems fine; considering the only two other Alex Collins-es with Wikipedia pages are long-dead, I don’t think the qualifier is necessary if/when he’s posted. The Kip (talk) 00:56, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There is contradictory information on DoB. The article about his death at the NFL news section says "Collins, who would have turned 29 on Aug. 28", whereas other sources like USA Today say "Collins would have turned 29 on Aug. 26." Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 07:34, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
All other reputable sports sources (PFRef, U of Arkansas, ESPN.com, etc) list his date of birth as the 26th; I'd be willing to bet the NFL.com editor simply made a typo/error. The Kip (talk) 18:44, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Tom Jones (writer)

Article: Tom Jones (writer) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The New York Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Lyricist for The Fantasticks (not that Tom Jones) Kafoxe (talk) 18:40, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Rodion Amirov

Article: Rodion Amirov (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sportsnet, TSN
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Absolutely tragic loss for the hockey community. Article's a little short and needs some refs. The Kip (talk) 18:24, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Delwar Hossain Sayeedi

Article: Delwar Hossain Sayeedi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Dhaka Tribune
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Bangladeshi Islamic scholar, lecturer, MP (1996 to 2006) and convicted war criminal. Article has a cn tag and a BSN tag. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:52, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Clarence Avant

Article: Clarence Avant (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Daily MailVariety
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 The Herald (Benison) (talk) 12:13, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No longer relevant since original user changed their mind on blurb, off-topic
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I really don't think he is. But to avoid what happened with Friedkin (ie, opinions on RD readiness lost amidst a sea of blurb-worthiness debate), could we start a ===== subsection===== below to keep the two discussions – one technical and essentially objective, the other highly subjective – separate? Here and henceforth? Moscow Mule (talk) 20:46, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Moscow Mule: There is a relevant discussion about this topic on the talk section of ITN that you might be interested in. It's better to contribute your thoughts about it there rather than here. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 21:03, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Where exactly that is proposed. Thanks for the pointing me in that direction. Moscow Mule (talk) 21:12, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Im just going to undue my blurb thought. I'd thought maybe he might be a borderline, with having signed Bill Withers, produced several films, the nickname, and revleance in the African American sphere, but... it seems it may not be close enough. TheCorriynial (talk) 22:15, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK. If User:MonarchOfTerror agrees, we could delete this entire nest. Might save some confusion. Moscow Mule (talk)
@Moscow Mule: If there’s no objections I could hat this discussion since it's off topic and irrelevant now. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 08:03, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@MonarchOfTerror: Works for me. Thanks. Moscow Mule (talk) 14:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistan new PM

Article: Anwar ul Haq Kakar (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Anwar ul Haq Kakar became the Caretaker Prime Minister of Pakistan successing Shehbaz Sharif. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Anwar ul Haq Kakar becomes the Caretaker Prime Minister of Pakistan, succeeding Shehbaz Sharif.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Anwar ul Haq Kakar succeeds Shehbaz Sharif as the Caretaker Prime Minister of Pakistan.
News source(s): NY Times, Reuters, AL Jazeera, Gulf News, Times Now, France 24
Credits:

 Ainty Painty (talk) 05:45, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - Is there any precedent to posting interim heads of state? PrecariousWorlds (talk) 08:56, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose and close the appointment of an acting HoG is never ITNR and shouldn’t be. _-_Alsor (talk) 09:56, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    While I don't think this should be posted, arguing to close a discussion about a legitimate topic before anyone else has had a chance to weigh in is unnecessary at best and rude at worst. Letting a discussion breathe for a few hours won't hurt us. (Also, this wasn't an ITNR nomination, so why even mention it?) Kicking222 (talk) 13:12, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Why is everyone so gung-ho all of a sudden to rush through nominations at the speed of light? Let people have a conversation. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 15:04, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Simply because it is my opinion. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:40, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @PrecariousWorlds: I don't know, but I've definitely seen an uptick in the incidence of ITN regulars attempting to shut down discussions before they're even allowed to happen. What this communicates to the person on the receiving end is that their idea is so bad, it's not even worthy of the bandwidth used to type "oppose" over it. That is antithetical to how we do things here, and shouldn't be an accepted part of the discourse at ITN. Kurtis (talk) 01:42, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    To argue that a discussion should be closed because it is unlikely to succeed because the reason is too obvious is an opinion just as respectable as betting on leaving it open for a longer period of time. Let's not exaggerate or claim unethical opinions that we do not share. _-_Alsor (talk) 07:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The point is there is no harm in keeping this discussion open, and there is possible harm in closing it early. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 12:08, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    "To argue that a discussion should be closed because it is unlikely to succeed because the reason is too obvious"—Obvious to whom? You? Me? We are both on the record as being opposed to a blurb in this case, but maybe other editors have opinions that are different from ours, and they should have the opportunity to speak before someone preemptively invokes WP:SNOW. Also, which "unethical opinions" are you referring to? The only thing anyone here is saying is that it comes across as dismissive—and even a little bit contemptuous—for someone to call for a discussion to be closed before it even begins. Kurtis (talk) 12:51, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Of course it's obvious to me, that's why I called to close it. I doubt very much that calling to close a discussion early could hurt anyone, but in any case we can't be constantly offended by opinions contrary to our own. Just because I ask for it to be closed, it does not imply that it must be closed at that very moment. Therefore, the debate is not over. It’s my opinion, I have reasons to raise it and I would not change it. Btw, I was not the one who said that some arguments are antiethical. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:39, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If you say "it does not imply that it must be closed at that very moment", what does "Oppose and close" add rather than a simple "Oppose"? The debate is on whether the story should be posted, we are not here to have a parallel debate on whether to close the debate early - the votes should speak for themselves, and, if they stay unanimously "Oppose" (as they are now), there isn't anything lost in not closing it as the story wouldn't be posted either way. But we couldn't have known that that would be the case if it had been closed early.
    In any case, you're the one who is suggesting to cut off the conversation early, you don't have a standing for calling others "constantly offended by opinions contrary to our own". Chaotic Enby (talk) 15:30, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Caretaker PM until next elections, unlikely to have much significance. The Kip (talk) 14:59, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose because it's an interim position. But the Prime Minister (HoG) is the head of the political executive in most parliamentary democracies including Pakistan, not the President (HoS) who's a figurehead. So that's the right position for ITN. A modicum of research would've cleared that up, but some editors would rather dogpile. 5.151.106.3 (talk) 16:29, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose—Barring exceptional circumstances, we generally don't post the appointment of interim heads of state and government, as it is intended to be a brief transition period. I don't think there is anything different about this case that would warrant a full blurb. Kurtis (talk) 01:54, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 13

August 13, 2023 (2023-08-13) (Sunday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Politics and elections

(Posted) RD: Norman Drew

Article: Norman Drew (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 22:21, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 12

August 12, 2023 (2023-08-12) (Saturday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Berit Lindholm

Article: Berit Lindholm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Bayreuth Festival + Russian + Swedish (so far)
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Swedish dramatic soprano, the Brünnhilde of her time in Bayreuth and elsewhere. Article expanded and referenced. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:46, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Mary-Louise McLaws

Article: Mary-Louise McLaws (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Newly created article for an Australian epidemiologist. Anarchyte (talk) 13:23, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Looks alright for a new article. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 15:32, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 11

August 11, 2023 (2023-08-11) (Friday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Science and technology

(Posted) RD: Ron Peno

Article: Ron Peno (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Australian musician - Indefensible (talk) 07:15, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article looks good. A lot of quotes though. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 13:00, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Giora Romm

Article: Giora Romm (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Times of Israel, Ynet
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Israeli flying ace - Indefensible (talk) 06:51, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article is sufficient in terms of depth, length and sourcing. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 13:10, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Mike Ahern

Article: Mike Ahern (Australian politician) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): ABC News
Credits:

Article needs updating
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Some sections need additional references although the article is fairly comprehensive. Happily888 (talk) 02:02, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Major sourcing work needed. Article potentially has NPOV issues as well, especially with the info being unsourced, such as describing Bjelke Peterson as "wily" (unsourced), which definitely has negative implications and stuff like "Bjelke-Petersen worked actively to destabilise the government from outside of Parliament.", "Bjelke-Petersen was determined to stymie Ahern's ambitions to be in Cabinet." (Also unsourced). At the very least a RS has to be found for these and they could still be NPOV violations. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 17:24, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Julian Haviland

Article: Julian Haviland (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Times
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Thriley (talk) 22:05, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article looks alright. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 15:15, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Angela Flowers

Article: Angela Flowers (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://artlyst.com/news/angela-flowers-leading-british-art-gallerist-dies-aged-90/
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: British gallerist. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 14:57, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article is good enough for RD. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 15:14, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Bikash Sinha

Article: Bikash Sinha (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Indian Express
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian physicist. I've updated and fixed the article; should be good! Tails Wx (they/them) 03:46, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Article quality is sufficient for RD. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 15:05, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 10

August 10, 2023 (2023-08-10) (Thursday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Science and technology

RD: Antonella Lualdi

Article: Antonella Lualdi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.ansa.it/english/news/lifestyle/arts/2023/08/10/italian-actress-antonella-lualdi-dies-aged-92_bae6599c-ea83-4484-96c6-42abd9b9cb80.html
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: it:Antonella Lualdi Italian actress and singer. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 15:13, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Doreen Mantle

Article: Doreen Mantle (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Needs sourcing work, entire filmography is unsourced Mooonswimmer 01:31, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Brice Marden

Article: Brice Marden (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Seemingly well-sourced article, needs a bit of verification, but apart from that, it seems ready to be posted. Mooonswimmer 22:31, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 9

August 9, 2023 (2023-08-09) (Wednesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

International relations

Law and crime

Politics and elections

RD: Paul Brodeur

Article: Paul Brodeur (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Boston Globe
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Death announced 9 August. Thriley (talk) 01:42, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Hugh Segal

Article: Hugh Segal (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): CBC
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Canadian political staffer/politician. Rushtheeditor (talk) 18:20, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted blurb) RD/Blurb: Fernando Villavicencio

Proposed image
Article: Fernando Villavicencio (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Fernando Villavicencio, a leading candidate for president of Ecuador, was assassinated at a campaign rally in Quito, just two weeks before the 2023 Ecuadorian general election. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Ecuadorian presidential candidate Fernando Villavicencio is assassinated, two weeks before the general election.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Ecuador, presidential candidate Fernando Villavicencio is assassinated two weeks before the general election.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Ecuadorian presidential candidate Fernando Villavicencio is assassinated in Quito, 11 days before the general election.
News source(s): Bloomberg El Tiempo BBC
Credits:

Nominator's comments: Assassination of a major candidate for president just two weeks before the election. Curbon7 (talk) 00:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shooter is dead, according to Reuters. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 02:38, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb High-level political assassination just weeks before a national election. Easy blurb story. The Kip (talk) 01:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Just want to say I support ALT2 or 3. The Kip (talk) 04:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for now Unquestionable notability. I agree with Ad Orientem and Masem. Probably in a few hours much more will be known, so it will be easy to extend the coverage of the murder. I don't think it's unreasonable for him to have an article, but as you consider. Once the information is extended, take this vote as a full support of the altblurb if you see that I have not expressly changed it. _-_Alsor (talk) 01:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - Per above basically. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support blurb with preference for altblurb 3 as being the most carefully worded. While it's true that Ecuador is prone to periods of political instability (the President of Ecuador article indicates that there have been multiple times in which a military junta has taken power), this is a textbook example of "Death as the main story" in the WP:ITNRDBLURB criteria. Absolutely noteworthy event with wide-ranging impact and depth of coverage. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 12:50, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb 3. Good to go. This is a major political event which occurred less than two weeks before the snap general elections, and while I support altblurb 3 (as I believe it is the most well-constructed blurb among the choices), I also think it should be noted in the blurb that a state of emergency has already been declared by President Lasso because of Villavicencio's assassination. Vida0007 (talk) 13:51, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Posting. --Tone 14:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I think it's time to switch the photo. Woakes has been there for nine days. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:33, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Seconding this. Photo should be swapped. Can I suggest these one over the existing suggestion (which is angled in a strange way)? F4U (they/it) 17:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
     Done. Black Kite (talk) 18:03, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Post posting comment This is exactly the kind of situation where a blurb should be used for a death. There's more to say about it than So-and-so died at age such-and-such. Blurbs should always be used when we have something important to say, and political assassinations are the kind of stories that benefit from the elaboration of a blurb. --Jayron32 21:42, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) RD: Lil Tay

Death is not confirmed by reliable sources and nom requested withdrawal as a result. May reopen if it is. The Kip (talk) 01:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article: Lil Tay (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): People
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.
Nominator's comments: Article updated and well sourced --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 22:07, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Article has sufficient coverage of her life, in enough detail. Bremps... 23:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose - Literally all we have as a source for her death is an Instagram post. The Vancouver and Los Angeles police departments have said that her death has not been reported and they are not investigating into it, contrary to the claims of the IG post. In any case, it's also clear that this whole debacle hasn't ended yet (I really hope she's okay, this entire event is a tragedy), so we should keep an eye out for what happens and Wait. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:17, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Robbie Robertson

Proposed image
Article: Robbie Robertson (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Variety, NYT, CBC, Rolling Stone, Washington Post, Asbury Park Press
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: The Band guitarist and songwriter --Vacant0 (talk) 20:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Unsourced filmography, a few cn tags here and there as well as generally some unsourced info. Needs ref work. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 20:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support blurb. Many of the news stories today alone, support the transformative aspects of his career and compositions: Per the NYT front page headline, in a nearly 3,000 word article, Canadian Songwriter Captured American Spirit. . . (with subhead) "helped inspire the genre that came to be known as Americana." Light show (talk)
Append re: transformative aspects. Per Rolling Stone today, "they forever changed the pop-culture landscape by releasing brilliant Americana music at the peak of the psychedelic movement. Their first album sent shockwaves through the industry, inspiring Eric Clapton to break up Cream, The Beatles to attempt their own stripped-back project with Let It Be, and a pair of young British songwriters named Elton John and Bernie Taupin to begin writing and recording their own material." Light show (talk)
Post-death hagiography doesn't need to be reflected in Wikipedia, which is supposed to be more sober. Stop trying to use "transformative" option. It's a non-starter. Instead, blurbs should be used to explain something extra about the death. Robertson can have been transformative, but if the blurb has nothing more to say than "He died", that's why RD was created. RD was not created so that we could grant extra visibility to people we really think are really important by giving them blurbs themselves, RD's only purpose is to avoid blurbs that only report an unremarkable death. --Jayron32 21:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Véronique Trillet-Lenoir

Article: Véronique Trillet-Lenoir (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Lemonde
Credits:

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 19:43, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) 2023 Hawaii wildfires

Article: 2023 Hawaii wildfires (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Parts of Maui island in Hawaii, United States are evacuated as wildfires knock out power and 9-1-1 services in western Maui and other parts of Hawaii including Oahu and the Big Island. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Parts of Maui in the U.S. state of Hawaii are evacuated as wildfires knock out electricity and emergency services in western Maui and other Hawaiian islands.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Wildfires in Hawaii kill at least 36 people and destroy much of Lahaina on the island of Maui.
Alternative blurb III: ​ Wildfires in Hawaii, United States kill at least 36 people and destroy much of Lahaina on the island of Maui.
News source(s): BBC The Washington Post
Credits:

Nominator's comments: This could be a catastrophic wildfire especially since 911 got cut off. Interstellarity (talk) 19:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait - But will probably be significant. It's ongoing, and the damage and casualties are still being assessed. Early reports are suggesting that much of Lahaina has been destroyed. TarkusABtalk/contrib 20:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I’m not opposed to posting this, but I have a question. 9-1-1 is used in the US and a few other countries, but other countries use different numbers for emergency services. Would people outside these countries understand the reference? (I am from the U.S., so I don’t know) Potentially, we could link to the 9-1-1 article or reference emergency services. -TenorTwelve (talk) 21:16, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    The blurb probably needs to be rewritten, something else would be described instead. - Indefensible (talk) 21:19, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait until it develops into something significant (which, unfortunately, seems likely). I also think the blurb should be rewritten—specifically, the "Big Island" is itself known as "the island of Hawai'i". Kurtis (talk) 21:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Not sure about that wording, given the state and the island in question have the same name. I'm not sure about this perspective internationally, but I'd believe at least within the US that most would more understand it if "the Big Island" were mentioned. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:03, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose As you can easily see, these are not the only active forest fires in the world. And it is neither the most relevant nor the most worrying, as failures in the electricity supply are neither the most serious nor the most exceptional thing that can happen. And I don't know what to wait for, if it doesn't seem that things could become tragic (seeing which fires have been posted in PM because they were notorious). _-_Alsor (talk) 21:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait While I'm sad to see a place I've been to destroyed, I would like to see how many deaths these fires are causing and update the blurb accordingly. Alternately, I could be open to ongoing, but I'm not strongly convinced this nomination would be a good fit for ongoing. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 23:03, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose on Quality not sure of the significance (if it is major and the article is lagging behind, or if it really isn't) but the article still needs some expansion. Bremps... 23:18, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It's unfortunate for the people involved, but the mere existence of fire and the need to evacuate, the loss of power and the loss of "9-1-1" service is fairly common. I don't see how this is any different to other similar fires in other parts of the world. Chrisclear (talk) 23:45, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support - I think it's okay to support at this point. Over 36 have been killed, wildfires are not slowing down, major towns are destroyed, this is very much In The News. Others have pointed out the 2023 heat waves article isn't ready, but I don't think that's really neccesary at this point to post. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 09:24, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Sizable loss of life, towns being destroyed, in the news...
NoahTalk 12:21, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment The use of "9-1-1" is obnoxious in its regionalism. Only blurbs that use the more accessible

"emergency services" are acceptable. Chrisclear (talk) 23:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • The problem is that "9-1-1" is not the emergency services phone number in all countries on Earth, and it follows that not all readers would be familiar with it. It would be better to use a more generic term such as "emergency services". Presumably if a similar event took place in Australia, and the proposed blurb mentioned triple zero, many readers would (understandably and correctly) ask for an alternative term to be used. Chrisclear (talk) 22:38, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Aye. I had a jokebook as a kid, and one asked something like what happens when you dial 666? Turns out, a policeman walks in on his hands! There was a picture, but I still didn't really get it for about 15 years, figured it was some sort of Christian allusion. But nope, just otherworldly; the Internet can help people faster now, thankfully, but it would have still been easier to use the more universally recognized term in this case (where the whole idea doesn't hinge on the detail). InedibleHulk (talk) 23:57, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support in principle There appears to be significant cultural damage; in addition to the destruction of the historic center of Lahaina (video), a museum/cultural-center with countless artifacts was also destroyed ([5]). At the moment, the death toll is six, but the significance of a disaster goes beyond just a body count. That said, neither of the proposed blurbs do it for me, and the article still needs considerable work. Curbon7 (talk) 00:12, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    horrendous video. But excuse me for frivolizing. This is what fire behaves, it destroys. The destroyed historical center is a little less than 300 years old, of a little known town and, for now, it does not seem that there have been significant patriotic and historical elements destroyed. What is the real value in the history of mankind, of Hawaii or of the United States left in ashes? Having in mind the fires of the National Museum of Brazil or the University of Cape Town (where the loss was irreparable for the history of the respective countries. Or also taking into account the fires of Sicily, which destroyed the body of St. Benedict "the Moor" when his sanctuary burned or threatened the Greek temple of Segesta) I see very far from having a comparable notoriety to also be included. _-_Alsor (talk) 00:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    In tandem with Masem's point below, that is a valid point. Curbon7 (talk) 01:24, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Still waiting for the worldwide 2023 heat waves article to get to spec that would include all these wildfires that are going on. Posting any one wildfire this year over another, short of a massive life loss, would be inappropriate. --Masem (t) 00:42, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • I Concur If the 2023 heat waves article wasn't a mess, I'd support posting it as ongoing. ❤HistoryTheorist❤ 01:28, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      I'm frankly against it. Heat waves are common in the affected areas. We would add them in ongoing every year, just as we would add tornado seasons in the USA or cyclone seasons in the Pacific. And I don't think that's the goal. _-_Alsor (talk) 08:37, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      There has been significant coverage that this year's heat waves are unusual, important, and tied to climate change at the global scale. Unfortunately, the article last I checked failed to make that case, simply documenting in far too newspaper-ish style rather speaking to the big picture. We should have been trying to include that but no one worked to.improve the article. Masem (t) 14:10, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong support. The death toll has risen to 36, and a whole town has been destroyed. 50.101.173.184 (talk) 10:46, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support with 36 deaths, this is now notable enough for the front page. Article quality is good enough in its current state. NorthernFalcon (talk) 11:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Undecided - We've had dozens and dozens of wildfires nominated that fail to get traction because, as Alsor and Masem have both pointed out, it's wildfire season and climate change is significantly increasing the incidence of this. The loss of life and the destruction of communities is regrettable, but that is often the case with wildfires. We ought to come to a decision whether wildfires are inherently notable regardless of where they occur, or whether we need to continue to be discretionary and only post those that smash records or result in unprecedented catastrophic destruction. My tendency is towards the former, but the current mood on ITN/C seems to be the latter. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 12:56, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Good point. I share your indecision.... _-_Alsor (talk) 13:22, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - While wildfires have become somewhat a common occurrence nowadays, I think the location of this one makes it much more notable, not to mention that the fatality count has risen dramatically to 36 now. Article looks ready to be posted too, as I have seen no {cn} tags upon checking; even if there are two sections currently orange-tagged for expansion (Impacts and Response), I think those sections could be further expanded in the coming days, if not hours. Vida0007 (talk) 13:48, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I thought that as well, but then the Background section of the Wikipedia article said: The typical area burned by wildfires in Hawaii has increased in recent decades, almost quadrupling. Experts blame the increase on the spread of non-native vegetation and hotter, drier weather.[6] which, although that citation came from a news article specifically about this wildfire, seemed to hint that this may just be a climatic fait accompli, particularly as it also mentions later how the decrease in rainfall is consistent with the effects of anthropogenic climate change. So despite the isolated location, it seems that this has become a more frequent occurrence in the past couple of decades and is not just a freak event. Now, is climate change worth highlighting on ITN? Yes. Have we done a poor job up to this point publishing climate change-related stories? Absolutely. Is this the story to do it? ... I don't know. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:54, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support alt2 - one of Hawaii's historic districts is almost completely burned to the ground, and now dozens of deaths. It isnt just a "forest fire". nableezy - 14:05, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support altblurb 2 - Lahaina was Hawaii's capital for a time, so it's not just some insignificant town with a historic district. The number of dead also makes this more notable than other wildfires that have sadly afflicted the world this year. Khuft (talk) 14:15, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - death toll is now at least 36. --RockstoneSend me a message! 14:35, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - A tragic loss of life and historic property, making headline news, and I suggest we post this now, seeing as concensus has developed. Jusdafax (talk) 14:54, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Planning to post since support is clear. There are two orange-level expand tags, which I am not sure are necessary. Can they be addressed/removed first? --Tone 15:07, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Tone,  Done nableezy - 15:47, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Certain votes demeaning this as just “a little known town” subject to some routine natural disaster are frivolous at best and outright biased at worst. Considerable Hawaiian cultural heritage was lost here and the death toll’s not insignificant either. The Kip (talk) 16:29, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support due to loss of life in particular. No real blurb preference. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:50, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support I was a support before the death toll shot up but that seals it. The earlier comments trivializing this fire are pretty unbelievable, honestly. --TorsodogTalk 17:52, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The earlier comments, User:Torsodog, was from when there were few, if any, deaths. Please AGF. Nfitz (talk) 01:12, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very much turned off by the fixation on minimum deaths here, actually. The town was completely destroyed at the point of those earlier comments and it was still trivialized. --TorsodogTalk 01:21, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The main comment questioning if any significant cultural heritage was lost compared to other fires (the primary two mentioned being in non-western countries) was in direct response to a comment acknowledging at least six dead.
ITNC concerns itself so much with not appearing to have an American bias that it occasionally circles around to an outright anti-American bias. It’s trivializing behavior, especially when the scale of the destruction is now better-known. The Kip (talk) 02:30, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Isn't this ITN (which I support) an example of American bias? It was posted very quickly. I don't believe that an article about a similar event in Mali would have been edited to ITN-ready so quickly. Nfitz (talk) 02:01, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This was posted in a little under 24 hours, which I think is pretty good. I don't know about Mali, but in Mati, a similar wildfire was posted in 16 hours. The fact that an article can be readily posted after a significance threshold is reached has more to do with availability of reliable sources than any sort of deliberate "fuck you, foreigners; the USA is #1" mentality being suggested by some editors around here. Cheerio, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 16:41, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

August 8

August 8, 2023 (2023-08-08) (Tuesday)

Armed conflicts and attacks

Arts and culture

Business and economy

Disasters and accidents

Health and environment

Law and crime

Politics and elections

Sports

(Posted) RD: Dorothy Casterline

Article: Dorothy Casterline (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://gallaudet.edu/university-communications/dorothy-chiyoko-sueoka-casterline-an-appreciation/ https://library.rit.edu/ntid-blog/deafsigning-community-support-recognition-dorothy-dot-sueoka-casterline
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American deaf linguist. 65.94.213.53 (talk) 15:00, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Muon g-2

Proposed image
Article: Muon g-2 (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Physicists at Fermilab announce results from the Muon g-2 experiment, indicating that their measurement of the anomalous magnetic dipole moment of a muon differs significantly from the theoretical value predicted by the Standard Model. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Physicists at Fermilab announce results from the Muon g-2 experiment, indicating that their measurement of the behavior of muons in a magnetic field differs from predictions by the Standard Model.
News source(s): Reuters, Scientific American, NYT
Credits:

Article updated

Nominator's comments: This was previously nominated in April 2021 (in fact, this experiment goes all the way back to 1997–2001 at Brookhaven), but the news here is that they have analyzed enough data to reduce uncertainty such that the Standard Model theoretical value is no longer within 5 sigma of their experimental value; this is conventional threshold for claiming a discovery in particle physics. Davey2116 (talk) 02:48, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Still ambivalent on the one hand, it's not at the point where we can say there's new physics (because the theoretical calculations are tough enough that they could be wrong); on the other hand, it's a tantalizing incremental step, and we've not had any science news on ITN for a while. So, no real preference either way. Banedon (talk) 03:12, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I'm not a physicist, but per Banedon, the wider implications of this for the Standard Model look unclear. Measurement and adjustment of previous values is common. But if it undermines the current understanding of magnetism or the Standard Model, then the blurb should be clearer. Muon g-2 states that "the final results, based on full six years of data-taking, are planned to be published in 2025", perhaps we can wait until then. Brandmeistertalk 10:47, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The Standard Model calculation for this is complex and difficult. When a new lattice method is used then "...there was no discrepancy at all." So the result indicates that the Standard Model is still valid but that the previous methods of calculation were off by a bit. So, this is not a big breakthrough -- just a refinement of technique. Andrew🐉(talk) 22:45, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wait till 2025 per Brandmeister (it will give those in the know a chance to work out the nitty-gritty and the eight billion or so rest of us time to grasp the basics first). InedibleHulk (talk) 00:42, 12 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Johnny Hardwick

Article: Johnny Hardwick (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Deadline
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Voice actor of Dale Gribble. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:06, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Jamie Reid

Article: Jamie Reid (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Guardian, WaPo
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English visual artist. Designed album covers for the Sex Pistols. Thriley (talk) 22:49, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: Sixto Rodriguez

Article: Sixto Rodriguez (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC, Euronews, Fox 2 Detroit
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Singer-songwriter from Detroit, subject of the Searching for Sugar Man documentary --Vacant0 (talk) 15:15, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RD: DJ Casper

Article: DJ Casper (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Musician who had No.1 hit with Cha Cha Slide. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:57, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) RD: Federico Bahamontes

Article: Federico Bahamontes (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Euro Weekly News
Credits:

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

 Fahads1982 (talk) 09:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Conditional Support- I addressed two of the CN tags. If someone can correct the third of them, I believe this will be ready to post. Edit: Looks good to me! SunsetShotguns (talk) 11:49, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Posted) Ongoing: 2023 Nigerien coup d'état / 2023 Nigerien crisis

Articles: 2023 Nigerien coup d'état (talk · history · tag) and 2023 Nigerien crisis (talk · history · tag)
Ongoing item nomination (Post)
News source(s): [7]
Credits:

 Tejas Subramaniam (talk) 10:47, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Closed) New National Monument around Grand Canyon

Consensus to post is unlikely to develop. Consider nominating this for DYK.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed image
Article: Baaj Nwaavjo I'tah Kukveni – Ancestral Footprints of the Grand Canyon National Monument (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ President Biden designates 900,000 acres of land around the Grand Canyon as the Baaj Nwaavjo I'tah Kukveni – Ancestral Footprints of the Grand Canyon National Monument (pictured) (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Baaj Nwaavjo I'tah Kukveni – Ancestral Footprints of the Grand Canyon National Monument (pictured) is designated as a national monument to protect tribal lands and as a moratorium on uranium mining.
News source(s): [8] [9]
Credits:
 NeverBeGameOver (talk) 17:23, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For blurb, it's about 900,000 acres; for alt, national monument should be lowercase. Reywas92Talk 18:19, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done. NeverBeGameOver (talk) 18:23, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Alsoriano97. Looks like political theater with very limited impact beyond prevention of mining in a small area. Monuments and wildlife preserves are created with great regularity all over the world. I can't remember posting them at ITN. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:35, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose It doesn't look like it will have a lasting impact or receive sustained in-depth coverage. Stuff like this happens often and it's just internal politics, it doesn't seem notable. Scientia potentia est, MonarchOfTerror 21:04, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak concur 900,000 acres is a lot of protected land and an exceptionally large monument; I'm glad to hear of its status update. But the cultural, economic and environmental significance seems mired in the no-go topic. As pitched and currently written, anyway, alt's not bad and articles can change. InedibleHulk (talk) 23:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as its a type of "under the fold" story - it has some importance, but its not as significance in the news, but strongly urge this to be presented at DYK. Perfect candidate for it. --Masem (t) 01:26, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - Per @Ad Orientem. PrecariousWorlds (talk) 06:39, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

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