Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cornwall

Parishes project

I have started a project for missing civil parishes at User:Crouch, Swale/Missing parishes. The missing parishes in Cornwall are:

• St Buryan, Lamorna and Paul
• St Ive and Pensilva
• St Keyne and Trewidland
• Tregony with Cuby

And these exists as a redirect only but should probably have separate articles:

• Budock (?), is this an alternative name for Budock Water?
• Lawhitton Rural
• St Minver Highlands
• St Minver Lowlands

A total of 8, see User:Crouch, Swale/Missing parishes (1)#Cornwall. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:26, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

• I've struct the created 1, pinging active members to get more input @Balin42632003, Cdjp1, DuncanHill, Esmost, Flappy Pigeon, Gazamp, Geertivp, Geof Sheppard, Highfields, Johnsoniensis, Jowaninpensans, LessHeard vanU, Moonraker, Peterwill, Plutonium27, Raintheone, Steinsky, Talskiddy, Tewdar, Theroadislong, Vernon39, Worm That Turned, and Zangar:. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:17, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

  • Budock Water is the name of the village, within the parish of Budock.  Tewdar (talk) 20:19, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
  • St Minver Highlands and St Minver Lowlands civil parishes definitely need their own articles...  Tewdar (talk) 20:31, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
  • Tregony with Cuby is simply a very recent combination of the parish councils of Tregony and Cuby. Probably both of them are still civil parishes, even though those pages say they aren’t. Tregony with Cuby has almost zero history and might struggle to be notable. St Keyne and Trewidland is much the same. Moonraker (talk) 21:34, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
    • @Moonraker: The CPs were merged in April last year, see this order and the OS[1][2]. The history and distinction is the distinct name and recent merge. There's a reason Wokingham/Borough of Wokingham are separate articles but Reading, Berkshire/Borough of Reading aren't. The former is a relatively recent (1974) combination while Reading's boundaries are much older, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive/WikiProject UK subdivisions#Splits where borough is smaller than urban area. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:45, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
      • Crouch, Swale, those are good sources, and the first shows that Cornwall Council did indeed use its powers to combine the civil parishes. It didn’t have to do that, as it could also have created what are called joint parish councils, with more than one civil parish in them. You have cleared that point up, but mine stands, viz. that if these pages were created there would be little to go in them! Not that I am against it, but of limited value. Moonraker (talk) 23:02, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Isles of Scilly taskforce?

Hello, just some newbie here to enquire: Would it be possible to have an Isles of Scilly Taskforce as part of the Cornwall WikiProject? No worries if not, I just want to see if there is any enthusiasm from the WikiProject members. HenryTemplo (talk) 11:30, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

I have done a bit of editing on the IoS articles in the past and willing to help, but I haven't really been that active on here recently and I can't guarantee I can spare much time. Bodrugan (talk) 10:04, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, @Bodrugan! Judging from the otherwise lack of responses, I don’t think there’s a huge demand for a IoS Task Force, although I will certainly continue my editing of Scilly-related pages. I’m hoping (at some point) to get the Isles of Scilly article promoted to good article status... when I get round to it! Have a great day! HenryTemplo (talk) 10:14, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Penwith

The Penwith article seems very confusing and out of date. It's trying to cover the now defunct district of Penwith, but also West Penwith/the Penwith peninsula and completely ignores most of East Penwith (The areas around Camborne and Redruth). The district covered the western two thirds of the old Hundred of Penwith, and doesn't really match up with the geographical area of the Penwith peninsula or West Penwith as it included areas around Hayle. I think we need a separate article on the old district council, as there is for the hundred, and the article on Penwith should encompass the whole thing (West Penwith, East Penwith and the former district) or just become a disambiguation page and create pages for West Penwith and the district. Bodrugan (talk) 10:20, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

List of foreign-language names for Cornwall

This page was merged into Geography of Cornwall in 2009, but more recently all of the information on this subject was removed from that page, meaning the redirect doesn't take you to the information any more. Can we find a more suitable home for the list and redirect? Bodrugan (talk) 14:11, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Cornish people

We have a guideline (Wikipedia:WikiProject Cornwall/Guideline) for article leads on the Cornwall - England - United Kingdom issue, but could we also have one for biographies of Cornish people on the use of Cornish as a nationality in leads? Bodrugan (talk) 10:45, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

I think that would be a good idea, do you want to draft one up in your userspace? Any interested editor can then chip in if they want to and comment on it. Have a great day! HenryTemplo (talk) 11:16, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Fully support this, this is very important. Gwikor Frank (talk) 22:38, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

• WP:NATIONALITY. "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable. For guidance on historic place name versus modern-day names, see WP:MODERNPLACENAME.

Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability". DuncanHill (talk) 22:53, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

There is an exception for nationalities within the UK. Why the UK in particular gets this I don't really understand, but that's the way it is. Note that it's not based on "countries of the United Kingdom" (this would result in Welsh people between 1746 and 1967 being labelled as English) so the policy should be read as being inclusive of the Cornish, unless Wikipedia wants to discriminate against the Cornish in particular. Bodrugan (talk) 20:33, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Editors should bear in mind that a large proportion of people in Cornwall regard themselves as either English (i.e. that Cornwall is a part of England), or both English and Cornish. Not all, of course, but (like it or not) a substantial proportion. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:10, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Ideally, we would need some data to back this up (and some reliable sources), so maybe why should wait until the result of the 2022 census comes out this summer, which should give us some idea on the preferred nationality of Cornish people (and maybe some RS will publish some articles as well). Just a idea... HenryTemplo (talk) 07:08, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

Yes, that's perfectly true. What I'm encountering is that biographies of Cornish people, who may not have seen themselves as English, are being edited and changed to describe them as English (rather than British) using the above policy to justify it. What I would suggest is that all nationalities in opening paragraphs for people born in Cornwall should read British, unless a Cornish identity was part of that person's notability, or we have evidence that that person identified themselves as Cornish, or indeed English (and any other identity). Bodrugan (talk) 14:54, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

[Just to clarify, @Bodrugan, I'm not saying we use the census to cite wether someone identifies as Cornish, just that the census will probably lead to reliable sources publishing articles about Cornish identity, given any discussion on Wikipedia about Cornish identity some basis and data (my fault for rushing to write that reply!)] Yes, I think that approach would probably be appropriate, given that Cornish identity can be a controversial issue. Might be worth checking though what's the latest consensus and precedent on the matter. :) HenryTemplo (talk) 16:19, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

People from Cornwall should not have their national identity assumed. The Cornish are a recognised national minority and a blanket "English" description could introduce inaccurate information. The only way we can be sure of someone's national identity is if there are reliable sources in which they mention it. @Ghmyrtle Regardless of how many in Cornwall identify as English, it does not change the fact that the Cornish are a recognised national minority group.

I propose the following policy for WP:Cornwall pages: "The Cornish are a recognised national minority. In articles, the nationality of people from Cornwall should be given as British only, unless reliable sources can be found in which they state a Cornish or other identity". --Lader Gwiader (talk) 12:57, 3 July 2022 (UTC)