Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies

WikiProject LGBT studies

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Florida_Transgender_Female_Athletes_Bill

Hello,

Would someone like to contribute to this page? Help is much appreciated. Thank you SAMsohot (talk) 11:51, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

I don't see any benefit in this having its own article. It's very short anyway and already covered at Transgender people in sports, where the topic is covered as a whole rather than piecemeal for various U.S. states. There really isn't anything more to say except what's at that main article or opinion pieces anyway (which we generally keep out of Wikipedia). Crossroads ^-talk- 05:16, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Crossroads, As a Floridian who's friend has a trans daughter who plays sports, I strongly disagree.

But as a Wikipedian, I have to agree with this. I've had this page open, trying to decide what I could say to argue with this, but after 20 minutes or so and a couple edits elsewhere, I've got nothing. The length of the draft really says it all. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 17:40, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

@Crossroads and MjolnirPants: Would either of you or anyone mind taking a look at this again? Perhaps there's some way to flesh this out given the additional sources added? As I posted at User talk:Bsoyka#https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Florida_Transgender_Female_Athletes_Bill, there might be something here, but whatever it is should be more (at least in my opinion) than a single-sentence stub with lots of sources tacked on at the end. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:19, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Just going to update that the draft has been moved to Draft:Fairness in Women’s Sports Act, but it has also been declined again by an AfC reviewer. The comment left this last time suggested that it might be better to merge the draft's content into Ron DeSantis. Whether the DeSantis article is the best place for the content is something I'm not sure about, but it probably could fit in Ron DeSantis#LGBT rights or in Ron DeSantis#Tenure. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:27, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Help with draft article about YouTube Pride 2021

I have prepared a draft article about YouTube Pride 2021 celebrations User:Peony1432/sandbox. While on first look this appears to be a WP: Crystal Ball event, there are exceptions for well-publicized events that are newsworthy. I am hoping for input and advice from members of this project about how to improve this draft. I should disclose that I have a conflict of interest because I work for Google. Thanks Peony1432 (talk) 20:57, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for disclosing your conflict of interest. I don't believe this topic is notable at the moment, but it likely will be after the event occurs, though I would guess you've been assigned this task to promote this event in advance. But there's no substantial coverage, just announcements of some famous names and that it will exist. Onlookers should note that some of the sources only cover the topic in passing (which is not to say they're not worth including). This isn't a world-famous event like the Olympics and it's not yet been analysed in-depth by commentators. (For instance, if we had a couple of articles finding it ironic that YouTube is doing a Pride video despite being largely responsible for recent far-right anti-LGBTQ mass radicalisation, or saying their priorities should be fixing the systematic censorship of non-sexual queer content from YouTube Kids... well that would change things.) As for improvements, I would mention the date (June 25) in the first sentence and remove "The virtual event will take place around the world" if that just means "It will be on the internet", and clarify it if it's supposed to mean something more substantial. — Bilorv (talk) 22:42, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

As Bilorv said, it doesn't just need to exist and have (your) publicity; per WP:FUTURE #1, the preparation of the future event must be well-documented in reliable sources, enough that were it to be completely cancelled on the day of the event, the preparation itself would be notable enough to justify an article. Asserting that it will be notable in the future does not mean it gets an article today. I also direct you to FUTURE #5 about advertising. Kingsif (talk) 02:04, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestions. Since the event is now over, I updated the draft for YouTube Pride 2021 using past tense and put in more details and sources. Would you mind taking another look? You can find the draft here: User:Peony1432/sandbox. Thank you Peony1432 (talk) 21:32, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

I've moved it to "draftspace" where other editors can more easily find and edit it. It's now at Draft:YouTube Pride 2021. Thanks, Peony1432 for your input on this. Star Mississippi 21:52, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

FYI, an editor has moved the draft to mainspace. It is now live at YouTube Pride 2021. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:51, 30 June 2021 (UTC)

And it's now back in draftspace. I'm not sure what the correct place is for this article as it stands, but I do think it can eventually be ready for mainspace with some work based on coverage I'm seeing. Courtesy @Kingsif: to this discussion. Star Mississippi 19:14, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:List of LGBT slang terms § Merge discussion

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:List of LGBT slang terms § Merge discussion. Elizium23 (talk) 21:57, 13 June 2021 (UTC)Template:Z48

Discussion at Talk:Gender

There is a discussion on the Gender talk page that could use more input. Funcrunch (talk) 15:10, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Discussion of interest

A discussion which may be of interest to members of this WikiProject can be found at Talk:Nazism#Paragraph dealing with NSDAP-DNVP relations. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:04, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

Michael Aldred source for death

Hi all. I am currently working on expanding Deaths in 1995 by adding and sourcing all articles in Category:1995 deaths. I can't find a source that verifies his date of death on 15 April 1995. Moreover, the claims about the nature of his death are sensitive, and we really should have a source for that. If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. My ProQuest search and google books search mostly came up with sources on an ice skater of the same name. Please ping me if you find anything useful; this page is not on my watchlist. Best.4meter4 (talk) 14:47, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

LGBT in Ghana

Hi fellow LGBT Project members and Happy Pride Month, to begin with :-).

Could anyone rank the article 2021 Ghana gay arrests and teach me how to label articles under what criteria? thank you. CoryGlee (talk) 12:25, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Lesbian or bisexual

I need some guidance concerning a dispute im trying to resolve at Greta Garbo. Garbo was know to have famous romantic relationships with men (at least John Gilbert (actor)) and women, (at least Mercedes de Acosta) and so it seems that Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Guidelines covers this: "A deceased person may be categorized and identified as lesbian, gay, or bisexual if they had documented, noteworthy relationships with persons of the same sex or other sexes". Ok check, but do we call her a lesbian, or bisexual or use some other wording? Currently we say "Recent biographers and others have speculated that Garbo was bisexual, or lesbian, and that she had intimate relationships with women as well as men" with an editor objecting to the use of 'lesbian' in this context. I dont have access to the sources cited, but another editor has provided a source that uses similar wording as to what is in the article, i.e. bisexual, or lesbian. Whats the preferred approach here? Do we call her bisexual as she presumably had sex with both men and women? Do we follow the source's wording (assuming the other sources are similar). Something else? Thanks in advance. Bonewah (talk) 13:50, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

Conversations like this remind me of the cartoon of a kid looking at a book of Bible stories, and saying that he's confused: was Jesus a baby, or was he a grown man? Sexuality can be fluid, multiple descriptors may reflect different stages. Simply saying that ""Recent biographies hold that Garbo had romantic relationships with both women and men" (note, avoiding "intimate" as a euphemism if all you mean is "sex") carries the history, and if the there's a specific term that biographies are making as a suggestion and they aren't consistent, it's probably best to cite the specific biographer, as this appears to be a matter of controversy. --Nat Gertler (talk) 14:23, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

See also: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV Elizium23 (talk) 15:43, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

A few points:

1. re Do we call her bisexual as she presumably had sex with both men and women?: having had sex with both men and women is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for being bisexual. e.g. someone might try having sex with men and decide it's not for them, and that they id as lesbian, or vice versa. See also situational sexual behavior.
2. The quoted text from the wikiproj guidelines, assuming that categorized is being used in the sense of Wikipedia categories, is in conflict with WP:CATLGBT, which says: For a dead person, there must be a verified consensus of reliable published sources that the description is appropriate. The latter is a guideline, so it takes precedence over the wikiproject guidance, which has essay status.
3. The quoted article text sounds good to me. IMO, we should not apply a label to someone's sexuality in WP:WIKIVOICE unless they self-identified with that label, or there is a wide consensus in RS that the label applies. So it's okay to describe Oscar Wilde as gay in wikivoice, but not, say, Augustus, Duke of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg. But if it's verifiable that they had same-sex relationships or encounters, we can certainly say that, and we can definitely give an overview of what scholars have believed/speculated about their sexuality. Colin M (talk) 15:22, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

• There's no reason to remove the word "lesbian" if it's attributed, as it is. Sometimes gay or lesbian people have had opposite-sex relationships at some point, and having had one does not mean that they were/are actually bisexual. Incidentally, this is why it's good that our categories are all based on LGBT as a whole rather than distinguishing - it avoids numerous controversies of this sort. Crossroads ^-talk- 04:09, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
  • I don't think that's entirely true, re categories. See for example Category:Gay men and its many descendant categories. It's true that there are also many (non-diffused) "LGBT" categories, though I think they're usually non-ideal. Categories are primarily for navigation, and it's very plausible that a user might be specifically interested in looking at lesbian women from the 19th century, or trans women writers, and it makes their lives harder if they have to sift through a larger pool of LGBT people from the 19th century or LGBT writers to find them. Colin M (talk) 19:42, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

So, what im hearing is 'go with the sources unless they self-identified' which i dont believe Garbo did. Bonewah (talk) 13:48, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

event notice: Jonathan Ned Katz presentation

Hi all, Quatrefoil Library is hosting Jonathan Ned Katz to talk about his latest book, The Daring Life and Dangerous Times of Eve Adams. It's on Zoom Friday. Register here. Tell your friends! = paul2520 💬 18:04, 16 June 2021 (UTC)

"Gay lifestyle" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Gay lifestyle. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 17#Gay lifestyle until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. --Sangdeboeuf (talk) 22:33, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Your feedback would be welcome at the James Barry Rfc

There is currently an Rfc going on at Talk:James Barry (surgeon)#Request for comment: Pronouns attempting to determine what pronouns to use for James Barry (surgeon), Your feedback at the discussion would be welcome. Mathglot (talk) 00:12, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

The 10 most-viewed, worst-quality articles according to this Wikiproject

• 9 Victor Hugo (artist and window dresser) 733,910 23,674 Stub Unknown
• 172 RuPaul's Drag Race (season 13) 145,968 4,708 Stub Unknown
• 203 David Crane (producer) 127,530 4,113 Stub Unknown
• 223 Noah Galvin 121,038 3,904 Stub Unknown
• 24 Schitt's Creek 458,176 14,779 Start Unknown
• 28 Pansexuality 394,705 12,732 Start Unknown
• 32 RuPaul's Drag Race Down Under 382,834 12,349 Start Unknown
• 55 Billy Porter (actor) 295,065 9,518 Start Unknown
• 63 For All Mankind (TV series) 278,992 8,999 Start Unknown
• 65 Emma Portner 276,566 8,921 Start Unknown

Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Popular pages--Coin945 (talk) 06:25, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Xenogender

So yeah on the article of Non-binary gender I included xenogender in the article because one of the sources mentioned it. Honestly I’m not entirely sure if xenogender is a legit gender identity or something made by conservatives.

Do any of you guys have any opinions on this?CycoMa (talk) 06:37, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

IMO I would avoid writing about things you don't understand unless you are adding a direct quotation (don't edit quotations if you don't understand them). Copying from a source without understanding the material fundamentally means not having proper context for your sourced material and is not good sourcing practice IMO. There is no reason to attempt to expansively list anything on Wikipedia despite the temptation to include everything, having definitions and explanations for the two gender identities you added then removed can wait until a suitably motivated and knowledgeable editor wants to add it or you can learn the material yourself if you want :) Antisymmetricnoise (talk) 07:07, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Note

This discussion may be of interest to members of this project: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Jan_Zobel Montanabw^(talk) 00:02, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Please re-assess three LGBT articles on the quality scale

I have made significant changes to three LGBT related articles and they need to be reassessed on the quality scale. Is this the right place to request this? All three articles are currently rated as 'C-Class' on the quality scale. The three articles are as follows:

• Pride Quarter, Liverpool
• LGBT culture in Liverpool
• Homotopia (festival).

Many thanks. Richie wright1980 (talk) 21:12, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Living With AIDS film

Hello, I recently created a draft for the 1987 film Living With AIDS. It is an early film documenting the life and death of a young AIDS patient. Any help with the article would be appreciated. Thank you, Thriley (talk) 15:32, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

I expanded it Thriley and think it's probably a notable film especially since it earned the director an Emmy. Star Mississippi 17:28, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Thriley (talk) 21:18, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

Sylvia Rivera activism section begins by relying too heavily on a single article

The first few paragraphs of the activism section of Sylvia Rivera's article sources almost entirely to a single article, one which puts her in a negative light. Perhaps it should remain a part of her article (unless it is shown to be untrue) but there should probably also be more alternate, neutral, and positive sources for information surrounding her life and activism. True love and understanding (talk • contribs) 12:58, 9 July, 2021 (UTC)

Political activity of the Catholic Church on LGBT issues

Is it appropriate for Political activity of the Catholic Church on LGBT issues to contain lengthy excerpts from sources affiliated with and/or published by the Catholic Church, with the specific aim of promoting the Church and its views, which claim that the Church opposes anti-LGBT discrimination and supports LGBT rights? Please join us on the article's talk page. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:33, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Bugchasing peer review

For those interested, the article bugchasing - a practice of some (a very small number of) gay men actively seeking out HIV infection -- has an open peer review. Given the sensitivity of the subject, some attention from those in this project may be appropriate. The goal is to nominate it to be a featured article. Urve (talk) 09:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Madonna as a gay icon

Members may wish to comment.4meter4 (talk) 12:46, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

COVID-19's impact on the LGBT community

New category: Category:Impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the LGBT community. Feel free to help populate! ---Another Believer _(Talk) 17:19, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Ideological contributions to articles on sex and gender

A small number of editors are making radical changes to a range of articles, including articles within the scope of this project, aligned with views that presuppose that gamete size is the sole determinant of sex. Some of these changes have been made to articles on intersex, including that page. Sex determination is far more complex in cases of intersex. Changes relevant to this project have been made to intersex, disorders of sex development, 5α-Reductase deficiency‎, true hermaphroditism, hermaphrodite, gynandromorphism, sex, sex and gender distinction, sex differences in humans, and also non-binary gender and queer. The modus operandi appears to impose a narrow view of sex determination as uncontested and incontestable, remove all content on social, cultural or human rights aspects, and add material on gender and LGBT issues to make them as contestable and even ridiculous as possible (such as an attempt to add '[1]' to non-binary gender.

These changes are associated with narrow views about medicine and the diverse global settings where people with relevant traits - and Wikipedia readers - live. For example, recent changes to 5α-Reductase deficiency‎ have been justified on the talk page by an assertion that all infants go through sex chromosome testing that can identify whether or not that infant has the trait. That editor has just proposed a RfC on this little-watched [Talk:5α-Reductase deficiency‎| talk page].

I would very much appreciate a wider range of eyes on these articles. Thank you. Trankuility (talk) 01:02, 14 July 2021 (UTC)