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'{{oldmfdfull|date=October 9, 2010|result=keep|votepage=User talk:Nishidani}} {{semiretired|editor emeritus |date=foals' ages}} {{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=./Index|mask=/Archive <#>|leading_zeros=0|indexhere=yes|template=User:Nishidani/archive indexing format}} {{archives|search=yes|index=/Index}} {{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}} |maxarchivesize = 250K |counter = 22 |minthreadsleft = 20 |minthreadstoarchive = 2 |algo = old(100d) |archive = User talk:Nishidani/Archive %(counter)d }} {{bots|deny=DPL bot}} {{NoBracketBot}} {{NoAutosign}} =='''The West Bank/Judea and Samaria Problem''' == {{User:Nishidani/JS}} {{/To-do list}} <center>'''{{purge|click here if recent changes to the above list don't appear}}'''</center> == Note == Yonatan Mendel, [http://www.lrb.co.uk/v37/n06/yonatan-mendel/diary ''Diary,''] [[London Review of Books]], Vol. 37 No. 6 -19 March, 6 March 2015. == Palestinian population statistics Pro memoria == [https://web.archive.org/web/20151222075914/http://www.pcbs.gov.ps/Portals/_Rainbow/Documents/hebrn.htm here], == Notice of Admin noticeboard discussion == [[File:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.<!--Template:AN-notice--> <small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/166.84.1.2|166.84.1.2]] ([[User talk:166.84.1.2|talk]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> == Children == *[https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/24995-new-report-palestinian-children-in-israeli-military-detention-experience-violence-coerced-confessions New report: Palestinian children in Israeli military detention experience violence, coerced confessions] (14 April 2016), ''[[Middle East Monitor]].'' *[http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16104 Ex-Abu Ghraib Interrogator: Israelis Trained U.S. to Use "Palestinian Chair" Torture Device] [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 16:12, 15 April 2016 (UTC) :I.e.Brad Parker et al.,[https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/dcipalestine/pages/1527/attachments/original/1460665378/DCIP_NWTTAC_Report_Final_April_2016.pdf?1460665378 'No Way To Treat a Child: Palestinian Children in the Israeli Military Detention System,'] [[Defense for Children International]] April 2016. This is evidently an anti-Semitic smear. Firstly Israel has a unique conviction rate, 99% of the indicted, which shows it only detains the guilty. (b) The guilty are a chronic plague in that area, they swarm everywhere, which is why the system has had to convict 700,000 Palestinians. That's over 10% of the population, which means you have an exceptionally high incidence of criminality among those folks. (c) Thirdly, these are not children. Of this spurious report's so-called evidence only one child in 429 cited as witnesses, was detained in an Israeli prison from 2012-2015. The rest were 12 or over, i.e., adults. 1 in 429 is statistically meaningless. It's just one slip-up in [[Anat Berko]]'s proposed law. 'Shit happens', and this was a minor skidmark.(d) This is war, not a matter, therefore, of prissy human rights fussing. But even in war, civilized nations, meaning those where a lot of English is spoken, there are rules, and these things fall strictly within the remit of Military Order 1651 (e) Brad Parker is an 'Advocacy Officer, and advocacy for a cause means he's biased, and his work probably indictable as [[Palestinian political violence|incitement]]. (f) all parents need do is have the mukhtar conduct a whip-around, preferably by getting the muezzin to hand over his prayer broadcast system (and give the landscape some peace:we've had to close down 59 calls to prayer at Hebron this last month to allow the settlers at [[Kiryat Arba]] an uninterrupted clear audio reception of [[Arutz Sheva]]) and pony up the US$2,580 fine for stone-throwing, which is what most of this juvenile criminal element that survives rubber-coated steel bullets and toxic inhalation of suffocation gases is caught for. From a more general philosophic perspective informed by a deeper knowledge of the region's history, these folks should thank their neighbours that they are (for the moment) still alive. As [[Edward Luttwak]], a distinguished historian, put it in an erudite letter to the [[Times Literary Supplement]] (19 February 2016 p.6) while expressing admiration for the restraint Israel had exercised in its so called assault on Gaza, in killing just 551 children,and permanently disabling only 1,000 of the 3,374 wounded kids,'if a Palestinian state had been established in 1947 or any other time, by now it would have machine-gunned many more Palestinians than the Israelis have every killed.' They're getting kid-glove treatment compared to what history would have dealt out to them had they ruled themselves, and should be grateful for the ''restraint''. An Amora like [[Simeon bar Yochai]] must be writhing in [[Meron, Israel|his grave]] at our restraint in these unfortunate circumstances (Talmud Sofrim 15:10). Come to think of it, in this earthquake-prone zone, something ought to be done to calm things down. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:17, 15 April 2016 (UTC) ::Great analysis Nish, very insightful. Captures the brutality, viciousness, criminality, insanity and massive hypocrisy of the colonialists. ::Does WP have an article along the lines of [[Imprisonment and torture in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict]]? If not, it may be a good idea to start such an article, using, among many other sources, the two sources I included above, and the sources in your comment above, and high-quality analysis from additional reliable sources, hopefully as high in quality as the quality of the insights/ analysis in your comment. ::[[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 13:50, 16 April 2016 (UTC) :::Thanks. The problem in the I/P area is not making more new articles, but improving the existing ones, which cover most things, more extensively (and of course my own views and analysis would have no place there). What really worries me is the amount of known facts and material generally existing, that never even gets into reliable secondary sources, or at least in those I examine to see if the topic is handled. In any case, we're into spring, and I intend to enjoy it. Apart from a few remaining duties, I'm thinking of taking a leaf out of your commonsensical book, and mucking about more in the non-wiki world. This was impressed on me the other day when I noted the kaleidoscopic imbrication at one focal point of my gaze of a colour mosaic of a thrush, a bee and an admiral butterfly all crossing the same point more or less simultaneously from different directions, only at different depths within the garden. See those things often enough, and reading ought to take a back seat. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:08, 16 April 2016 (UTC) Enjoyed reading your description of the bird, bee and butterfly. I have been enjoying the wildlife around here. And some of the cherry trees around here are already bearing delicious fruit. You have been doing great work on WP. Keep up the good work. *[http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/35759-if-not-now-when-young-jews-refuse-to-stay-silent-on-the-occupation-this-passover If Not Now, When? Young Jews Refuse to Stay Silent on the Occupation This Passover] * [https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52781209/Publications/Israel%20Water%20Brief.pdf A quick tour of water and the Arab-Israeli conflict]. From 2003, but appears to still be relevant today. Written by [[Franklin C. Spinney]] [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 04:21, 23 April 2016 (UTC) :I've followed Frank Spinney's articles for several years, since he retired (if only because he did a sensible think and played Ulysses round the Mediterrean in a small yacht, a very sane thing to do). A lot of ex-CIA folks say interesting things afterwards! Thanks also for the other. I'll offer in exchange these all too brief remarks by a fine writer [[Michael Chabon]], recorded at Hebron, where he had the same reaction more or less as did [[Mario Vargas Llosa]] (see [[Tel Rumeida]] page)- Naomi Zeveloff [http://forward.com/culture/books/339119/qa-michael-chabon-talks-occupation-injustice-and-literature-after-visit-to/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-1 Q&A 'Michael Chabon Talks Occupation, Injustice and Literature After Visit to West Bank,'] [[The Forward]] April 24, 2016. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:03, 24 April 2016 (UTC) :: I guess you've caught [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szIGZVrSAyc 'Varoufakis and Chomsky,'], but if not, it's here. I particularly liked the former's definition of modern economics as 'a religion with equations'.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:32, 23 May 2016 (UTC) :::Yes, modern economics is mostly [[pseudo-science]]. It is almost entirely a cover, a fig-leaf, a [[Kashrut]] certificate, for the global kleptocratic looting of the global public wealth to create private riches. :::You may be interested in this: Musician [[Roger Waters]] and a documentary film director [http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=16377 discuss] their documentary on Israel's [[Hasbarah]] efforts. (See the right-hand-side panel for all three parts of the conversation.) [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 19:59, 23 May 2016 (UTC) ::::{{U|IjonTichyIjonTichy}} The above is a disturbing post. Classic anti-semitic tropes populate the wording.I am sorry Nish, but I have been reflecting on the above for over 24 hours, and I must protest. Simon [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 02:19, 25 May 2016 (UTC) :::::No need to apologize, Simon. I'm logging in late from another computer as my own is being reengineered to rid it of the totalitarian intrusive claws of a self-installed Windows10 update which, despite my 95% successful attempt to get rid of it, still persists in little tricks to get me back on (their) updated ('date' means anus in Australian dialect) side. As to Tichy's post, I didn't see it in context, as antisemitic, unless the kashrut certificate is taken to signal that the kleptocracy has Jewish connections. An idiom like that would come naturally to someone like T who grew up, I assume, in Israel. We all have differently sensitized noses for these things, and even here in writing 'noses' I immediately realized that my choice of 'noses' could easily lend itself to a negative construal ('And the Lord said unto Moses...') implying an antisemitic mindset. Language is a death trap to the best of us (suffice it to follow the debate between Christopher Ricks and Julius re T S Eliot's antisemitism) However, when I wrote it, I had in mind Bloch's beautiful words on the task of an historian being that of have an acute ability to scent his prey and track it down. If 'kleptocracy', well that is almost the default word to describe post-Soviet Russia, and kleptocratic is fairly objective for describing the way the multi-trillion dollar private debt crashes in 2008 onwards were transferred to the public debit ledger, most recently in the absolutely hallucinating case of Greece, which has been utterly bankrupted for generations by 'loans' that are actually rerouted back to Germany and France etc.etc. To think, everytime a kleptocratic 'rort' of these epochal kinds is duly noted that the Protocols are in the background of the annotator's thinking, is dangerous :::::In short, saying that 'modern economics is a figleaf or whatever for 'the global kleptocratic looting of the global public wealth to create private riches, ' seems to me both empirical and well-grounded theoretically ([[Michael Hudson (economist)|Michael Hudson]], Piketty etc.). Most people don't think that way.There's nothing 'Jewish' about it: indeed, it is merely a late extension in terms of financial 'engineering' of the logic that impelled very unJewish empires like those of Great Britain and the United States to extract wealth from the rest of the world - this occurred formatively when Jews were still excluded from the said establishments. :::::Antisemitism can be very subtle, but diagnosing its pathologies is getting very difficult perhaps because it is now thrown around (I exclude yourself from this: you have proven consistently lynx-eyed in your discriminations here) so endlessly, not a little abetted by the narrative obsession in so many Israeli and diaspora newspapers of trying to highlight some ostensible 'Jewish' angle in anything from people in the news, Mickey Mouse, falafel, to Superman, comic books, beauty contests, gay society, whatever - I take this all as a sign of the negative effect of diaspora traditions- an unfamiliarity with what it is like to be a nationalist, nationalism being organically natural in a new state like Israel to create a common identity, since the diaspora experience was basically one of being on the receiving end of other nationalists-this made Jews great exponents of universal human rights) The sum effect is that anytime anything comes up for discussion a constituency is been unwittingly attuned to construe it ethnically, and read it for any potential political innuendoes or susurrations from the old whispering echo chambers that 'lie' in all historically mindful readers' minds. This worries me a lot.And I have always taken Tichy's exchanges as a reflection of similar concerns by someone 'on the inside'. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:01, 25 May 2016 (UTC) :::::::As all can see, I have removed words from the original posting which are dramatic and unnecessary. I have forgotten how to strike out comments, and I have to be out in a bit to the bank to pay off some of my creditors in a somewhat painful monthly ritual. (Oh the irony, based on some of the above) so I cannot trawl through endless guides on how to do it. The diffs are there for all to see. The post is unfortunately worded at first sight, and not in character with the editor who made them, the many positive contributions here of which I am aware of. I almost never use such a line, as you are well aware Nish, and others who "know my style". You have more than adequately summed up my concerns in your above post. Your friend and colleague, Simon. [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 14:32, 25 May 2016 (UTC) Dear Irondome, am I correct in assuming you do not read Hebrew? Or, if you do, that you don't spend much time reading Hebrew-language mass media, including e.g. Israeli online newspapers and magazines, Israeli online TV and radio, Israeli videos on YouTube, books written by Israeli authors, etc? Because, as Nishidani tried to explain above, the term 'Providing a Kashrut Certificate' is commonly used in Israel as a general expression to denote 'bestowing legitimacy upon.' The term is used often (or at least not rarely) by average people in the street as well as by writers, journalists etc in a wide variety of contexts that have nothing to do with any religion. (Of course, there is nothing wrong with not reading Hebrew, and Hebrew language skills are not a requirement, nor do I believe that they should ever be a formal requirement, for editing WP in the I-P area.) In other words: * The vast majority of Christian economists, in the history of economics as well as today, worked or work to provide a cover, a fig-leaf, a [[Kashrut]] certificate, a [[Halal]] certificate, to bestow legitimacy on the global kleptocratic looting of the global public wealth to create private riches. A relatively small (but perhaps non-trivial) minority of brave, courageous Christian economists worked or work today to strongly oppose this looting. * The vast majority of Muslim economists, in the history of economics as well as today, worked or work to provide a cover, a fig-leaf, a [[Kashrut]] certificate, a [[Halal]] certificate, to bestow legitimacy on the global kleptocratic looting of the global public wealth to create private riches. A relatively small (but perhaps non-trivial) minority of courageous, brave Muslim economists worked or work today to strongly oppose this looting. * The vast majority of Jewish economists, in the history of economics as well as today, worked or work to provide a cover, a fig-leaf, a [[Kashrut]] certificate, a [[Halal]] certificate, to bestow legitimacy on the global kleptocratic looting of the global public wealth to create private riches. A relatively small (but perhaps non-trivial) minority of brave, courageous Jewish economists worked or work today to strongly oppose this looting. * The same applies to all other major religions in the history of humanity. In other words, providing a fig-leaf/ cover is independent of religion. * Of course the picture is even more complicated. I am not blaming the vast majority of economists for the severe historical and current problems with the global socio-economic system. Economists are just people like you and me, just trying to survive and thrive and feed and house and clothe themselves and their families. And it is not only the economists who are providing cover for the [[Property is theft!|global theft]] of the public wealth, it is practically every person who has ever lived or who lives now: the prevailing global socio-economic system is embedded deeply inside all of us, and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4nSjPdT788 we are all both victims as well as perpetrators], of the global system. You may also be interested in watching [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI5hrcwU7Dk this] scene from [[Network (film)]]. In my view, it's the most important scene in an excellent film that has many important scenes. In fact I strongly recommend renting and watching the entire film. Best regards, and continued enjoyment and happiness in life (hope you are enjoying watching the exciting UEFA football, although I wish Iceland would have won it all ...), [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 23:49, 3 July 2016 (UTC) Your words are appreciated {{U|IjonTichyIjonTichy}}. I freely admit to overreacting to your well-meant comment. I was feeling thin skinned that day. It happens. I find your comments very interesting. I am only beginning to study Hebrew, so I fear I could barely struggle through the simplest paragraph at the moment. Shame on me, but give it a year, and I may be able to understand the nuances of simpler newspaper articles and the like. My ambition is to read an Amoz Oz novel in the original. Then I will understand. I hope all is well with you and yours. Hopefully we can discuss your points further very soon. Nish is a patient host so hopefully we can expound further. With all good wishes, Simon. [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 01:02, 4 July 2016 (UTC) :Simon, no offense taken. I fully realize your intentions are pure and honorable. And I admire your aim to learn Hebrew - it is not an easy language to learn at any age, especially not at a later stage in life. When we immigrated to Israel many decades ago, I was only 5 years old and I learned to read and write Hebrew relatively quickly, my older siblings had a somewhat harder time learning to read and write the language although they eventually mastered it, and my parents had a very difficult time learning the language, although they eventually learned it well enough to understand most of what they were reading. My parents attended an [[Ulpan]], which helped. Best wishes to you and yours, [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 00:25, 26 July 2016 (UTC) ::There are some languages which, if we don't learn them, leave part of our potential selfs unread, to our loss. I've always felt that way with Hebrew. I could hitchhike round Israel, and even the Gaza Strip with a grasp of the idiomatic basics a half a century ago, but since then, when I have time, reserve it for parsing the Tanakh. I really should pull my finger out and do that extraordinary idiom's claim on me more justice. I helped a sister-in-law several years older than myself, with it a decade ago, and now her daily practice leaves me ashamed (joyfully). Pity that her being only Jewish on her father's side makes her, despite these valiant efforts in poverty, not formally (as opposed to informally) accepted as one of the tribe. So, S, do apply yourself. These moments of our day, stressed or otherwise, take on a different tincture of light when we recite to ourselves verses and words that take us out of mean time into a different universe. Best to both of you.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:04, 4 July 2016 (UTC) :::Ijon. This is stuff we've known for 13 years (parallel universes of modern information - the engineered moodosphere via the press vs. the ground, and underlying political calculations), but I've never seen it so meticulously documented as it is here. If you haven't see it, [[Jeffrey St. Clair]] [http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/08/how-the-iraq-war-was-sold/ How the Iraq War Was Sold] [[CounterPunch]] July 8, 2016.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:25, 8 July 2016 (UTC) :::I would also recommend [[Eliot Weinberger]], [http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n15/eliot-weinberger/they-could-have-picked 'They could have picked...,'] The [[London Review of Books]], Vol. 38 No. 15 28 July 2016. It's a useful wake-up corrective for those of us who focus so intensely on Israel's problems, to be reminded that the Glicks and Qarims are small beer compared to the 'mainstream' lunacy in the Empire's 'Christian' heartland whose greatest pathologists are, perhaps coincidentally but nonetheless, Jewish, like the doyen of them all, Noam Chomsky. The diff is that that tradition has the language of Mein Kampf too close at home not to escape its resonance in the rhetoric of these little, for the moment, avatars of Hitlerism. Why is it in this harsh climate, my small orchard and vegetable plots promise abundance, apart from the perfume? Regards[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:51, 13 July 2016 (UTC) :::: Thanks for the links to the articles. Indeed, these articles are informative, and frightening, and humorous all at the same time in that they expose the insanity of human so-called "society". :::: You may be interested in the following: ::::*[http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_new_european_fascists_20160724 The New European Fascists], by [[Chris Hedges]]. "Poland offers a frightening example of the right-wing populism sweeping through many nations. Neoliberalism is wrecking economies, creating rage among the working class, devastating cultural institutions and eroding liberal democracy across Europe and in the United States." (And, may I add, in Israel, in the occupied West Bank, in Egypt, in many Arab countries, and in fact in many countries around the globe ...) ::::* [http://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/trump-us-politics-poor-whites/ Why many poor white people have voted for Trump]. Interview with J. D. Vance, a book author. Vance is a Yale Law School graduate who grew up in the poverty of Appalachia. Offers good insights. ::::*[http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/ Ur Fascism], by [[Umberto Eco]] in the ''NY Review of Books.'' From 1995 but still very relevant today. ::::[[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 00:14, 26 July 2016 (UTC) :::::Bit late getting back to this. I actually missed it, with intervening edits being made by others. Thanks for the links, esp. Umberto Eco. I discovered I have a trace of the Ur-Fascist - 1/14th of me corresponds to no.11, since I often imagine that it would be useful, when dying, to use the inevitability for some useful end. Talking of fascists, I see [[Philippe Sands]], has just reviewed the evidence for Bliar in [http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n15/philippe-sands/a-grand-and-disastrous-deceit ''A Grand and Disastrous Deceit,''] LRB Vol. 38 No. 15,28 July 2016 pp.9-11. buried inside there's a good joke of the Iron Lady having dinner with her aides. They enter a restaurant, and the waiter asks her: :::::Waitress: ‘Would you like to order, Sir?’ :::::Thatcher: ‘Yes, I will have a steak.’ :::::Waitress: ‘How’d you like it?’ :::::Thatcher: ‘Raw please.’ :::::Waitress: ‘And what about the vegetables?’ :::::Thatcher: ‘Oh, they’ll have the same as me.’ :::::That pretty much sums up modern politicians. A megalomaniac surrounded by brownnosers. There's one exception. [[Elizabeth Wilmshurst]].[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:21, 2 August 2016 (UTC) :::::::This joke comes from an episode, some thirty years ago, of the much-missed [[Spitting Image]]. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPzzgE34YQY] <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 19:10, 18 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::Thanks Roland. The fact that The Simpsons anticipated Trump's victory, and the Putin connection, 16 years ago, together with this vignette, is proof of the old rule of thumb. If you want to understand the world, read comics or watch the best comedians, or parodists of genius. They are almost invariably way ahead of the commentariat by several years. The reason for that is that, like reality itself, they are not bound by rules of 'common sense'. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:10, 18 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::Roland, thanks. I was not aware of Spitting Image. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I enjoyed very much watching the ''Spitting Image Election Special 1987.'' Absolutely brilliant satire/ parody, adhering to the highest production values in writing, directing, craftsmanship, etc. And still [[Bread and circuses|highly]] [[Circus Maximus|relevant]] today, for example the most-recent bread-and-circuses [[United States presidential election, 2016| affair]] in my neck of the woods. Best, [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 19:17, 19 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::I highly recommend ''[[The Onion]].'' I've enjoyed reading their [https://twitter.com/TheOnion twitter feed] every day over the last 6 years, they do a great job satirizing and parodying many key aspects of human society. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 18:15, 26 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::Loved the joke involving the Iron Lady. ::::::The following is interesting: [http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=16964 Green Party of Canada Challenges Israeli Apartheid]. "Green Party shadow cabinet member Dimitri Lascaris says the passage of the resolution in support of BDS could embolden other Canadian parties to take on the occupation." Also discusses a second, separate resolution by the Green Party, regarding the Jewish National Fund (JNF). --[[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 03:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC) An interesting article: [https://www.firstthings.com/article/2016/10/the-cold-war-is-over The Cold War Is Over]. Best, [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 19:10, 16 September 2016 (UTC) :Yes indeed. I can't think of many other populations, save modern Palestinians, who have been comprehensively fucked over by history as have the Russians. I'm sure they must have a word as evocative as ''[[sumud]]'', but can't think of one. Mind you I'm losing touch and have been boozing and shoving the snout into the feeding trough for several hours in a farmlet built on top of a Roman villa. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:16, 16 September 2016 (UTC) ::Glad you are enjoying life. Keep up the merriment. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 00:42, 17 September 2016 (UTC) ::: [http://www.marketwatch.com/story/russia-is-now-top-wheat-exporter-proving-sanctions-wont-work-2016-09-23 Opinion: Russia is now top wheat exporter, proving sanctions won’t work], by Amotz Asa-El. By the way, the author has a Hebrew name, are you familiar with his work? [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 18:11, 24 September 2016 (UTC) ::::I"ve seen his works several times. He literally write in every single news paper/website he can. I never really understood what is his political agenda (didn't read too much of his articles) but it seems he is in the Israeli center-left side. He was the main editor of the Jerusalem Post, which is a mostly right-wing newspaper, but he was there ten years ago and at that time I could barely read so I don't know how was JP then. Anyway his articles usually full of historical references and examples instead of straight forward comments on spesific current events. He seems like one of the "good guys".--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 18:31, 24 September 2016 (UTC) :::::(ec.) Thanks Stav. On the button, and informative as often. No, not familiar with him, IJ. I never take note of names like that, Hebrew or Arabic, except when the argument is specifically focused on the I/P area, the only place where often it can often assume a potential background relevance. It sounds like the forecasts given the Russian economy back in 1914: in fact perhaps the key factor deciding Germany for war were calculations that unless the rapidly industrializing neighbor to its East were destroyed, it would, given the developmental indexes, outproduce Germany in 2 decades. One point. We get a lot of eastern grain that is contaminated, even radioactive, through southern Italian ports. I once read in the 1990s that 16% of the Russian landscape was toxically affected. Indeed, I joined a programme to take in for several months a year children from the areas affected by the Chernobyl fallout. We had to feed them a special diet for 3 months,to rid them of the poison they absorbed from eating produce from local farms. Our child got on well with me, except for one dispute over which he was passionate - the superiority of a Lada to a Ferrari, but had nightmares suggesting he believed my wife was part of a plot to steal him from his mother. Jeezus. Didn't work out, but he went back with enough currency sewn into his trousers to tide them over for a year or so.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:43, 24 September 2016 (UTC) [http://monthlyreview.org/2016/09/01/imperialism-and-class-in-the-arab-world/ Imperialism and Class in the Arab World]. Published in ''[[Monthly Review]]'' by Max Ajl, a friend of [[Vittorio Arrigoni]]. -- [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 15:41, 27 September 2016 (UTC) :Very good review, because it invites at least two rereadings (not that it's hard to read - I grew up with that style of analysis, just covers so many complex issues). I'll keep my eye out for Max Ajl's work, so thanks for the tip. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:10, 27 September 2016 (UTC) ::Sorry to hear about the passing of your cat. I'm the proud daddy of two small dogs which I love dearly, and you have my sympathies. How do you feel about your cat? ::Here are some articles that I think you may find interesting: ::* [http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/30/israel-and-academic-freedom-a-closed-book/ Israel and Academic Freedom: a Closed Book], published in ''[[CounterPunch]]'' Sept. 30, 2016 ::* [[Elon Musk]] unveils [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFA6DLT1jBA&t=3512s plan to colonise Mars], Sept 27, 2016 ::* Excellent, in-depth [http://monthlyreview.org/2010/11/01/the-humanization-of-the-cosmos-to-what-end/ analysis and criticism] of humanity's plans to colonize the cosmos, published in ''[[Monthly Review]]'' in 2010, still highly relevant today. And an [http://monthlyreview.org/2008/02/01/who-really-won-the-space-race/ additional article] by the same authors from 2008, again still as relevant today as it was 8 years ago. ::Best, [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 17:24, 2 October 2016 (UTC) :::Not quite ''my cat''. I have only one, 17 years old, with Alzheimer's and a massive Garfieldian appetite but a local woman, somewhat aspergeristic, used to buy creatures to cater to her daughter's whims, keep them in the house, then throw them out after a week. Evicted baby turtles and kittens ended up in our gardens, so I looked after them, reluctantly. 'Pirate' was a famished strayling who insisted on pouncing in to put on the nosebag when food was placed outside for the other two. Aggressive of necessity, ferocious, it eventually was tamed, and just as, after 1 year, I managed to stroke it, and it stopped hunting and just slept around the gardens till breakfast or dinner. I should have read the behavioural change and taken it to the vet, but it was quietly dying, I now see. We found it under a shrub while gardening, scenting the stench of death. It joins another 12 animals in a cemetery near my vegetable patch. I'm not an ailurophile. I remember, on reading the great [[Vladimir I. Georgiev|Vladimir Georgiev]] 's ''Introduction to the History of the Indo-European languages'' in 1981, stopping in my mental tracks at p.232 at seeing him gloss the Etruscan word ''krankru'' as 'cat'. Very odd, I thought. Cats didn't exist in Italy at that time. Indeed, as anyone of his stature should have known, the Latin word ''feles'' from which we derive 'feline' actually refers to species like the polecat or weasel, which Romans kept as housepets. Indeed [[A.E. Housman]] [http://laudatortemporisacti.blogspot.it/2012/03/quotations-in-dictionaries.html once wrote] a witheringly funny review lambasting a German scholar for reading the line, ''illic caelureos . .(venerantur)'' at [[Juvenal]]'s Satires 15.7:'there (in Egypt) the heavenly ones are worshipped'. That was the received manuscript reading but had long been emended to ''aeluros'' ('There cats . . are worshipped'). Since there was no native name for the foreign cat Juvenal took the term from Greek αἴλουρος, and monks, unfortunately the text never fell before the eyes of the anonymous Irish monk who wrote the [http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/pangur.html exquisite] [[Pangur Bán]], transcribing the text throughout the ages altered the strange word by conjecturing it was a corruption of the more familiar 'caeruleus' (the bluish ones, the sky creatures, gods) :::The one kitten I took into the house, when I found its gravid mother shivering in the snow at Christmas, and gave it sanctuary as it went into labour, has been raised as a dog. My first impulse was to shut the door, and leave it to its own resources, but my conscience and wife prevailed. The former because I was raised where cats were disliked, so much so that I once, aged 7,witnessed a gang of kids failing to drown a batch of kittens in a laundry tub: they struggled hard, clawing the water. So they took them outside and smashed them against the wall. A buried memory, of grief, came to remind me I was obliged to make amends, even though I hadn’t been involved. All silent bystanders to evil must work it through, make recompense in the future. :::Thanks for the links. I actually follow Elon Musk's work regularly, the cars and transit system are highly intelligent: going to Mars is stupid. As a pub-crawler told me in 1969 while watching the moon-landing: 'if they'd spent that money making life on earth decent, . . ' I replied along the lines,'Theology, and it's a theological project, has a longer hold on our imagination than humanism, and now we’re seeing its secular reincarnation’. Pat the pups for me.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:00, 2 October 2016 (UTC) ::::"We have not approached the time when we may speak to each other, but in the mornings sometimes I have heard, echoing far off, the sound of a trumpet. It is apparent that nations cannot exist for us. They are the playthings of children, such toys as children break from boredom and weariness. The branch of a tree is my country. My freedom sleeps in a mulberry bush. My country is in the shivering legs of a little lost dog." [[Sherwood Anderson]], ''A New Testament'' (1927) ::::By the way, both my pups are [[rescue dog]]s. They are sending their love to their uncle Nishidani. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 05:00, 3 October 2016 (UTC) :* [http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/09/30/israel-and-academic-freedom-a-closed-book/ Israel and Academic Freedom: a Closed Book] :*[https://theintercept.com/2016/10/06/u-s-admits-israel-is-building-permanent-apartheid-regime-weeks-after-giving-it-38-billion/ U.S. Admits Israel Is Building Permanent Apartheid Regime — Weeks After Giving It $38 Billion] :*[https://globalvoices.org/2016/10/08/new-discovery-about-persians-in-ancient-japan-generates-excitement/ New Discovery About Persians in Ancient Japan Generates Excitement] :--[[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 16:33, 10 October 2016 (UTC) ::Thanks for that one, I haven't been following the Japanese papers recently (by the way, some of the world's foremost experts on the North Eastern tribes of Australia and their languages are Japanese, god bless'em). Newspapers need sensations, I guess, but the fact that Sassanids were in Japan has been known for a century in scholarship at least, and was duly noted in the [[Nihon Shoki]] (720). Mind you, it's very important confirmation. We underestimate in our popular imagination how integrated trading was in antiquity: Egyptian lapis lazuli from the Pamir or Afghanistan region found i9ts way to pre-dynastic Egypt. China got their amber through Roman intermediaries. The [[Tarim mummies]] and Tocharians attest to viable I.E. speaking linkages. [[Christopher Beckwith]]'s ''Empires of the Silk Road,'' steps out at times on a limb, but it's as good a guide as any to the Eurasian globailization in pre-globalized times. Thanks.(Tell the rescue pups to practice retrieving granpa Nish from the morasses he gets himself into!)[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:10, 10 October 2016 (UTC) :::Thanks for your comment, including the links. It's all very interesting. :::What are your thoughts on this: [http://nautil.us/blog/we-may-never-truly-fathom-other-cultures We May Never Truly Fathom Other Cultures] (7 Oct 2016) :::The pups are saying hello to granpa Nish. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 20:21, 11 October 2016 (UTC) ::::(Wagging my '''tales''' in return:)) Generally I think that is odd. Terentius’s line in one of his plays, ''Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto'',’Being a man myself, I regard nothing human to be beyond my understanding.' Bi/trilingualism was very common at the historical crossroads, and among tribal societies all over the world, even markedly different in moeurs, so that many 'primitives' could grasp societies that were otherwise profoundly different from the one they lived in. One could write a book that wariness of strangers, while natural, only took on its plenitude of incomprehension when accelerated wealth accrual led to elite isolates which, once their power and the reach of their centripetal imagination consolidated over centuries to become an aristocratic sense of cosmic privilege, lost all purchase on the countervailing instinct of sympathy. ::::Montaigne on reading all of those Spanish reports, extracted a fundamental conclusion which one can find in Book 1, No 31 of the Essays, generally takes the line that our own customs are, seen in reverse perspective, just as weird, bizarre and aleatory as those which the Christians deplored among 'savages'. We deplored their rites of cannibalism, while going to church every day to dine on the body of God, in the communion service, etc. What makes civilized violence (from the Aztecs to us) so much more incomprehensible is that it doesn’t consist in just killing your enemies pellmell, as in a tribal fight. No. It is justified by a whole series of rationales, racial, strategic, theological (the Book of Joshua is foundational). We develop a metaphysics of murder, and give it legal cover by erudite distinctions about just wars, extrajudicial killings, turning a blind eye to genocides caused to people by the collateral damage of our own vibrant economic system's developmental impetus or 'civilising mission' (the French colonial army killed a third of Algeria's population from 1830 to 1880). We maxim-gunned 10,000-15,000 tribesman in an hour or two at [[Omdurman]], for the loss of two score men; a few years later von Trotha wiped out up to 100,000 [[Herero]] tribesman and, as if that wasn't enough, [[Roger Casement]], whether reporting on South America or the Congo, exposed the industrial and imperial genocides underway, as [[Leopold II of Belgium|King 11 Leopold]] (just take a look at that fatuous photo and compare the man inside the party costume to the photo portrait of [[Sitting Bull]]. ) to entertained European royalty while his men killed at a minimum 1,000,000 Congolese, etc,etc,. I guess WW1 was a relief to the third world - for a brief interim, the mass murders stopped abroad as the whites decimated each other. I can understand murder at the elementary level: it’s massacres for a sophisticated reason which are odd. Not the massacres themselves, but the self-delusional mechanisms people who engage in great civilization's mass killings to provide a warrant or charter for what they are doing (I disagree with [[Jared Diamond]]'s recent middle class book on this). If you read [[Steven Runciman]]’s Crusades, and then read [[William H. Prescott|Prescott]]’s account of the Conquests in Mexico and Peru, the ‘incomprehension that anthropologist feels for Aztecs is not a mater of a psychocultural divide, it’s just that he hasn’t familiarized himself with history, and Western history, or the obvious fact that there’s a little Nazi infant hidden even in the most civilized person, ready to morph given the ‘right’ circumstances. ::::I was much taken by [[Marvin Harris]]’s books, esp. [[Cannibals and Kings]] when it first came out, and his [[Cultural materialism (anthropology)|cultural Marxist theory]] applied to cannibalism. Have a look at what he says of the Aztecs pp.99ff.He makes the point that ‘The Jews, Christians, the Moslems, the Hindus, the Greeks, the Egyptians, the Chinese, the Roman all went to war to please their gods’(p.107) and provides ecological constraint rationales for things like Central American cannibalism. ::::You guessed it. No decent film on the television tonight! Cheers pal, and give the pups an extra pat (not a cow pat! what a dreadful thought). (As kids, our first ammunition was cow pats, fresh crap crusted slightly under the sun, which you could scoop up and smash into the other gangkids' faces. We'd come home, happy, covered in shit, greeted by my pharmacist mother's smile- She thought roughing it up, exposing one's self to bacterial filth, was part of a good education, and wasn't far wrong, despite the pong). [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:23, 11 October 2016 (UTC) :::::Calmécac had it survived the Spaniards or been taken over by the Jesuits, might have vied with Morocco’s [[University of Al Quaraouiyine| Al Quaraouiyine]] as the oldest university of the world (forgot to copy and paste this last bit). [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:47, 11 October 2016 (UTC) ::::::I agree. Deeply understanding other cultures is sometimes hard, but not impossibly hard. One can understand cultures, that may appear at first as extremely foreign to one's own culture, if one is willing and able to spend considerable amount of time on carefully studying high-quality sources, learning the language(s) of the foreign culture, and, if possible, traveling extensively within the foreign countries and spending considerable time living and striking roots (at least for a year or more) in the foreign lands. :::::: [https://aeon.co/ideas/arabic-translators-did-far-more-than-just-preserve-greek-philosophy?utm_source=Aeon+Newsletter&utm_campaign=8878e7c78d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2016_11_04&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_411a82e59d-8878e7c78d-68746429 Arabic translators did far more than just preserve Greek philosophy] (4 Nov 2016), by Peter Adamson in ''Aeon Magazine''. -- [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 18:03, 4 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::I like to think of it this way: every one of the 10,000 historical cultures was or is a form of human possibility and constraint. It follows that absorption in any other culture than one's own can open doors that are locked if one remains monocultural. Great civilizations run on a paradox; they are promiscuous by the eclecticism intrinsic to imperial overreach - since they must absorb a manifold of distinct regional cultural realities, yet tend to orthodoxy when the politics of power at the centre feels threatened by the centrifugal vectors of the accommodated diversities. It's not however that one finds something out there not available to one's own sociocultural backdrop: Lévi-Strauss in his ''[[Mythologiques]]'' essentially concluded that the devices of 'savage thought' were still with us, not overcome by progress, but simply reformulated. The imbrication of social and cultural categories with natural taxonomies is constant - we just think we have gotten beyond the apparent oneiric randomness of primitive thought because we have a technology that beguiles us into believing we are cognitive creatures that have made some quantum leap out of the historical past. Reading ethnography, one is constantly struck by the wild blindness of explorers: they die where natives thrive, they cannot read the landscape for the telltale signs of how to survive in it, signs that are meticulously archived in the ecology of native lore. [[Burke and Wills]] hauled 20 tons of equipment across central Australia, with food stocks calculated to last 2 years, and died of starvation, in an area where the [[Yandruwandha language|Yandruwandha]] were living intelligently off the desert's recondite riches. The stupid bastards just didn't do the obvious things, like earning good will, learning the languages, changing their diet, etc. The !Kung-San of the Kalahari classify over a hundred insect species, and found close to 20 edible, while others have medicinal functions, and where early travelers saw a desert void of food, their native taxonomy closely classified several hundred plants, each with its ethnobotanical uses, all of course encoded in a different discursive form than what we are accustomed to think in terms of. I was going to write about the failed follow-through of Hellenism's philosophical impact on the Palestinian Talmud, as opposed to the Bavli, then Maimonides's failure, reflecting a broader Islamic missed opportunity, to take Aristotle's syllogistic system on board (monocultures etc) and got distracted, probably because I've had a long day's reading and need to rest up with some film. Thanks for the link and have a good weekend. Cheers. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:47, 4 November 2016 (UTC) Thanks for the insights. When you get a chance, I'll be interested to read your thoughts about the failed follow-through of Hellenism's impact on the Palestinian Talmud. Additionally, your thoughts on the following? [http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=17681 Leonard Cohen Sang About Our Love Affair With Death and Destruction] (14 November 2016). A short video tribute to Cohen's work over the last 5 decades. "The brooding singer-songwriter tried to humanize society's darkest wishes, and lamented its inability to ever be at peace." ''[[The Real News]]'' (4:29 minutes) [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 17:24, 15 November 2016 (UTC) ::50 years ago I read a comment by [[Moses Hadas]] raising the hypothesis of a decisive influence of certain Platonic texts like the (otherwise) draconian [[Laws (dialogue)|Laws]]. He had in mind the minute regimentation of every element in one's life according to an established tradition set down by philosophers/sages. Given that rabbinical literature took on board some 3,000 loanwords from classical languages, it still strikes me as odd that so little is done to try and reconstruct the lost historical hinterland, esp. in the ascendency of Hellenism over the world where at least the Palestinian Talmud developed. Some have argued that there are traces there of a syllogistic modus operandi, not evidenced in the Bavli,for this very reason, but that had failed to gain much traction. Abrahamic religions of course are systems of advanced irrationality whose function is to detribalize the Neolithic world by making its spiritual heritage more amenable to communities living within the powerful jurisdiction and statist universalism of empires. So it's particularly interesting to see how they cope with propositional logic, which, since Pythagoras, has raised the problem of the truth status of axioms. All three had creative skirmishes with the Greek tradition: Christianity tried to meld the two, and we have theology under pontifical and synodic authority; the Islamic world had a major moment of creative contact, evinced by the [[Muʿtazila]] only to suffer, devastatingly at least in terms of science, from a failure of nerve. Judaism, having, aside from the probable Khazar experiment,a role of minoritarian subordination to secular authority, just withdrew into an cognitive enclave where the chain of tradition trumped logical curiosity, though it retained an indirect contact with it through familiarity with Arabic translations of Greek works (e.g. [[Saadia Gaon]], [[Maimonides]], etc). The results more or less, from a classical angle, in the case of doctrinal Judaism, are more or less as [[Israel Shahak]] set forth. Despite the tragical nature of the necessity to dispossess and destroy another people in order to reenter history in the most imbecilic form of normalcy, it is fascinating to observe the utterly dysfunctional δυσκρασὶα (the inexorable discrepancy between ingredients forced to assume a form of amalgamation) between a modernist project pinioned on secular rationality, and an identitarian value base drawing on an ethics that is devoid of any purchase on logical principles. But, it's late here, and the ghosts of the antipodes are murmuring discontent over this whiteman's distraction. . . ::As for Leonard Cohen, he's never been on my radar: I read several poems in the 60s that seemed pretty much in line with a lot of bad work of that period. Several songs remain in memory, but, again, so do a thousand others from that golden age. I guess I'll have to review my prejudices by getting some time to relisten to part of his corpus on youtube.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:44, 15 November 2016 (UTC) :::Thanks for the comment. Very insightful, as always. I am still in the process of reading and re-reading your comment and trying to understand all the very interesting nuances, issues, complexities and insights. I will comment further in the future. :::Your comment motivated me to read the WP article on [[Israel Shahak]]. (I was not previously aware of the work of this wonderful, amazing human being, thanks for bringing his work to my attention.) I don't know when is the last time you may have read the WP article, but I've read it for the first time, and to me, it reads mostly (although not entirely) as an [[WP:Attack page]] on Shahak and his work. I looked briefly at the history page, and it appears that several editors whom the community has recently determined to be highly disruptive or otherwise very problematic (e.g. the blocked sockpuppet Epson Salts and several other [[Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing|civil POV pushers]]) have basically turned the article into (largely, although not entirely) a piece of crap. I don't have the time to work on the article to bring it into compliance with WP policies, I am wondering if you, or anybody who reads this comment, may hopefully have the time, motivation and inclination to improve the article to make it adhere to NPOV (and other policies), because in its current form, this article is a disgrace to WP. ::: Thanks for sharing some of your perspectives on Leonard Cohen. Your ideas are thought-provoking. ::: On a somewhat different topic, I highly recommend these two recent, insightful interviews with economist/ historian [[Michael Hudson (economist)|Michael Hudson]]: Part [http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=17705 1] and part [http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=17742 2]. :::Last but not least, the puppies send their love to their grandpa Nishidani. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 14:21, 18 November 2016 (UTC) ::::Off to Germany again, and rushing to get a few notes into a backlog of stubs I have material for but haven' had much time to work on. I tried to edit the Shahak article into some semblance of neutrality some years ago but was hindered by an admin at that time distinguished for his brilliant wikilawyering on behalf of the cause. Shahak was an exceptionally insightful and erudite man. Our [[User:RolandR]] knew him personally and can attest to his humanity. You can download both his books from the net, even though unfortunately some copies are on anti-Semitic sites, but that will tell you nothing in itself. I recommend a close reading of them: to me they read like a version of [[Karl Popper]]'s [[The Open Society and Its Enemies]], a formative book for me as a youth, with Plato being replaced by rabbinical tradition. There was nothing new here: what Shahak did regarding the ghetto mentality of the arbitrators of the rabbinical chain of tradition has been done hundreds of times by scholars working on the irrationality of Christianity. One should be careful here: it is one thing to make a metacritique of a specific cultural code or intellectual tradition, another to dismiss its varied members as all implicated in a delusional system of collective [[scotoma]]. Marx, it is only slowing emerging, had a prescient intuition into the core end logic of capitalism, and found many eminent, deeply humane acolytes. Attempts to legislate his worldview into a political programme where, were, predictably (as he himself foresaw in 1854,) a disaster. That is true of all the Abrahamic (and other) religions: it's a paradox of humanistic, as opposed to scientific thought, that genuine wisdom and profound readings of human nature came bubble up from thinkers whose overall [[weltanschauung]] is irrational. One sees that studying the anthropology of 'primitive' tribes - it's a good exercise to absorb the ethnography of a 'backward' people sufficiently to assimilate their basic rules, and then walk round any city streets and gaze into the faces, minds ands manners of our fellow citizens, and suddenly twig how bizarre we are, how random and contingent our ostensible metropolitan 'rationality' is. One can learn from that rabbi or this imam, or Pope Francesco, or the present Dalai Lama, things that a hyper-rationalist or scientist knows nothing of, though from a higher perspectival angle, science, and the rules of logical method, must rule our better wits, with religion, and much philosophy deriving from it, merely a camouflaged echo of an ancient ghost-dance (there's a great book on this by [[Weston La Barre]]). ::::Nuzzle the pups. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:31, 18 November 2016 (UTC) ::::ps. that ostensible disproof by [[Immanuel Jakobovits]] is of course a spectacular lie: the situation generally was as Shahak said it was, regardless of the incident. One can ascertain this very simply, by googling the relevant topic. Unfortunately, at least at that time I edited, there seemed to be no RS connecting the ban with the Shahak incident, and a lot of malicious recycling of the pseudo-rebuttal.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:42, 18 November 2016 (UTC) :::::I've lived in Jerusalem for a number of years, and yes, you are right, the situation was, generally, as Shahak described it. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 18:15, 26 November 2016 (UTC) [https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/09/02/did-chinese-civilization-come-from-ancient-egypt-archeological-debate-at-heart-of-china-national-identity/ Does Chinese Civilization Come From Ancient Egypt?], [[Foreign Policy (magazine)]]. "A new study has energized a century-long debate at the heart of China's national identity." [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 18:15, 26 November 2016 (UTC) ::The only interesting datum there is Sun Weidong's note that the chemical composition of ancient Chinese bronzes resembles that of Egyptian bronzes. The rest is pretty weird. In ancient cultures metal-working was a closely guarded secret, and figures with mastery of it were regarded as shamanic, men of power and dangerous, so diffusion wasn't rapid unless the craftsmen migrated, or were captured, and sent elsewhere. There was an Indo-European element in western China, and one theory,very minoritarian, holds that the Shang were not speakers of a Sinic language, as were the later Zhou. But the idea of a Hyksos link looks wild. Strange things do happen, though. The 'isolated' aaboriginal peoples of northern Australia were bartering trepan they fished for goods with sailors for the north and it ended up in the fish markets of imperial China. In any case, controversies that wash every idea about the past in the lyes of nationalism are not worth following. I'll try a thought experiment tonight, and mentally transmit two juicy vitaminized biscuits to your pups. If they don't end up in there, put it down to the waning powers of their senescent grandpa. Have a great festive season. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:05, 24 December 2016 (UTC) ::Oh, and, following up on Leonard Cohen, I found his line:'Everyone knows the war is over/Everyone knows the good guys lost' instantly memorable (particularly in the aftermath of the victory (if predictable, as I argued with some US friends much to their disbelief, or rather conviction I was just being geriatrically contrarian, not only in terms of [[Murphy's law]]) of that wanker with the dopey haircut.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:10, 24 December 2016 (UTC) :::Greetings Nish. I liked the brief (4:30 min) [http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=17681 analysis of Leonard Cohen's work]. Cohen was right, the losers on both sides of practically every war in the last 12,000 years of human history are well known in advance even before the war begins: it's mostly the bottom 90% [in income and wealth] of the population on all sides, while the top 1% smile all the way to the bank. I am not an expert in poetry and you may be right and Cohen may have been a mediocre poet, but he was right about the fact that the vast majority of the global human population is (and has almost always been) basically completely, thoroughly fucked and will likely remain fucked for many more years and decades. Human so-called 'society' is completely insane and has been so for the last 12,000 years. On the other hand we are also completely sane and rational at the same time. (I am slowly discovering that almost all great, complex, multi-layered truths in life are a paradox. Often, both the very complex thing/ topic/ item/ issue and its exact opposite are true and correct at the same time, at least to some degree ...) We can't even bring ourselves to talk about - and more importantly, make big decisions and commitments about - the big problems that are slowly but steadily destroying our lives - e.g. gross [[human overpopulation]], massive [[overconsumption]], enormous inequality/ inequity, [[Intensive animal farming]], global warming/ environmental destruction/ loss of biodiversity, and much more ... At the same time, life is still beautiful and offers many good and enjoyable things e.g. love, friendship, enjoyable work, pursuit of beauty, art, science, pursuit of novel physical, emotional and intellectual adventure/ exploration/ knowledge, pursuit of excellence, and many more pleasurable and enjoyable and deeply satisfying relationships and activities ... In short, life is a piece of excrement and a piece of paradise, and everything in-between, all at the same time ... ::: Wishing you and yours good health and continued happiness. And keep up the good work on Wikipedia. :::The pups received the biscuits and quickly wolfed them down and licked their lips afterwards. They asked me to relay a big thank-you to grandpa Nish. (I dressed them in their Santa Claus outfits and took them to the giant park nearby on both Saturday and Sunday, to the delight of many small children [and a few adults too] ...) :::Joyful tidings, [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 15:11, 27 December 2016 (UTC) ::::It's a pretty modern thing to think of the poor being the victims of war while the elite profit and survive. Ever since homo sapiens insipiens has ruled the roost, at least down to WW1 and even 2, war was thought excellent for character-forming and a practical way to master the more intricate details of how to muster and therefore master the masses, even if the cost was substantial. A significant part of the ruling elite's rising generation of young men were mowed down in WW1. George Bush Jr.,'s family got things 'right', you funnel Nazi funds to safe havens, and pull strings so that your sons don't serve, but that only signifies something new. ::::I guess I'm a poetry rigorist. Apart from Shakespeare and a few others, most of the best poets are lucky, as Auden said, to ratchet up a score of poems that will outlive the ages. If you look at wonderful songs for their verbal poetry, many are total duds, though Christopher Ricks has made a great case for Dylan as a poet. Music's metrical baton can tap dull words into memorably orchestrated lyric. I read Cohen's lyrics in print, before listening to them, and that put me off, ,but I realize this was unfair, a prejudice. Sung, they exude a different, moving resonance to what they look like on the printed page. I recite stuff in the shower every morning, just to wake up by refreshing my mind with lyrics, and today sang von Eichendorff's "Mondnacht" ::::''Es war, als hätt' der Himmel :::: ''Die Erde still geküßt, :::: ''Daß sie im Blütenschimmer :::: ''Von ihm nun träumen müßt'.'' </br> :::: ''Die Luft ging durch die Felder, :::: ''Die Ähren wogten sacht, :::: ''Es rauschten leis die Wälder, :::: ''So sternklar war die Nacht.'' </br> :::: ''Und meine Seele spannte :::: ''Weit ihre Flügel aus, :::: ''Flog durch die stillen Lande, :::: ''Als flöge sie nach Haus.''</br> ::::I learnt it as a boy because a German classmate who was, on casual acquaintance, a pretty normal happy-go-lucky 'petty bourgeois', stopped me one day and asked me what I got out of reading. he was puzzled by my anomalous presence in a college for drop-outs (I'd been expelled from an expensive college for subverting their culture and ruining their Catholic value system . I'd spend most time in class reading books and ignoring the teachers). Over a coffee we had a chat, I mentioned poetry, and he finally twigged. 'yeah I know what you mean. My granddad taught me this poem (then recited) and I think the last four lines the most breathlessly beautiful thing I've ever known.' In fact it was the only poem he knew, he was intent on a career in business. Nothing wrong with that, but if one does, one should recall how Wallace Stevens and T.S. Eliot handled it: diligent paperwork by day, and then, strolling home, down to lights out, the inner world where things make real, i.e. perplexing sense. ::::This utterly took me by surprise and rid me of whatever supercilious sense of being different might have lurked in me, Whatever stupidity the daily tsunami of global and provincial nonsense throws one's way, such things remind us of the reclusive adamantine potential for refinement in mankind, resonant in lyric, music, acts of empathy, courage, philosophical intuitions, scientific intelligence. It's not an elite thing: that kid's remark showed it's there, deep down, waiting to thrum if the right person can get past our mental messiness and touch the deeper chords. One story of [[Osip Mandelstam]]'s final days in the gulag has him cared for by thugs, who were enchanted as, dying, he recited fables and poems for them. Today stacking timber that had just been culled from a distant wood and offloaded at my place, I noted these ants, wandering about dazed along the logs. Obviously clueless as to what had happened to their environment, thrown out of kilter from their daily round on the forest floor. I thought, spontaneously:焚き物にだれずに迷う森の蟻 (''takimono ni/darezu ni mayou/mori no ari''), i.e. 'On the firewood/unflaggingly, their way lost, they stray (perplexed)/the forest ants') Not much chop as a haiku, but more or less, we are the ants, much as you say, in a stripped and bulldozed woodland. ::::I'm meandering, which is natural enough, given the afternoon of hard 'yakka'. Delighted by the vignette of the santa pups. My family prevailed on me the other night to dress up as Santa Claus because a 3 year old niece, hugely bright, was convinced someone really would knock on the door and bring in presents. I did so, cushions on the stomach, a flowing beard, and, sneaking out back, banged on the door, and chuffed and huffed in with a tired limp, gasping from fatigue, handed over a bag of goodies, and then collapsed, sprawling, on a couch. She really was taken in, 'Oh poor Santa. He's so tired'. So I snored for 10 seconds, and then jumped up:' Must be off, all those kiddies in Africa are waiting for me too. An easier leg to do: no bloody soot or chimneys', and off I trundled. ::::Best regards and auguries for a good new year, even after the deadshit hits the fan on 20 Jan. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:59, 27 December 2016 (UTC) :Thanks for the beautiful poem, and for your comments. Your words are inspiring and encouraging. :Wishing you a full and quick recovery. :The pups send their love to Grandpa Nishidani. One of them is sleeping in my lap right now, the other is sleeping at my feet. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 00:08, 13 January 2017 (UTC) == Earthquake == Hope you and your loved ones are not directly affected by the [[2016 Central Italy earthquake|earthquake]]. --- [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 01:06, 27 August 2016 (UTC) :Thanks. I'm used to them because I lived in Tokyo and the second story rooms I had wobbled quite regularly, not only when I came home from a night's drinking. So I woke, looked at the chandelier in the bedroom to check the strength, and then went back immediately to sleep. My wife was with friends, woke as the house shook, the washing machine's door burst open, the apartment shook, and reshook, so she had a worrying night. Folks from my area were up there in a flash to provide emergency care. Italians are good in tragedy: a 12 year old girl died, throwing herself over her 4 year old sister to save her: the latter was pulled out of the rubble 17 hours later. A local builder, Tonino, rushed to his bulldozer when it struck, and managed to save dozens by rapid work until he suffered a heart attack. Restaurants all over Italy are offering spaghetti all'amatriciana, the dish created by transhumant pastoralists from the village most affected, razed to the ground, and an euro or two of the take is then sent to the authorities to help the reconstruction. So we have to eat out more often.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:09, 27 August 2016 (UTC) ::Nick, I had no idea you were so close to the tragedy and had personally witnessed such selfless acts. Apart from the most important loss, that of human life, ancient structures which had survived human strife have been swept away, by the arbitary shudder of a tectonic plate. I am saddened by the irreplacable human loss, but glad that you and yours are ok. Si. [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 13:52, 30 August 2016 (UTC) :::Thanks, Si. A local friend who got there quickly said that, although used to emergency work, helping out as corpses came in to be hosed down, in all sorts of rigor mortis postures, and then refrigerated, so that the process of identification could proceed as quickly as possible, got to her and she had to leave after 2 sleepless days of hectic work. It may seem to be inhuman to allow one's eyes to stray from that dimension, but I admit on such occasions, - they're regular here - that my thoughts go out immediately to other, inarticulate, beings caught up in this natural Guernica type event. 7 dogs trained to dig through rubble when they scented the presence of bodies, keeled over dead from exhaustion. Roughly 11,000 cows, and double that number of sheep, more fortunate that the 30 crushed in a collapsed barn in Amatrice, are wandering about fodderless, facing a murderous winter. I used to think that opening up immigration from the third world to the Apennines, a million or so in those beautiful but tough mountain villages and farms, was a solution to the generational drift to the cities - a good part of the economy up there already relies on Bulgarian, Indian, Albanian, Kosavaran, Rumanian and Moroccan families settled there (and a notable number of the dead were 'foreign') - but that would look distinctly Machiavellian now. What nature does, in any case, is relatively leniently intermittent compared to the daily man-wrought havoc in places like Syria et al. In some sense one can live with earthquakes. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:32, 30 August 2016 (UTC) ::::Nish, I hope you are doing OK in the aftermath of the [[October 2016 Central Italy earthquakes|new earthquakes]]. -- Best, [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 16:11, 27 October 2016 (UTC) :::::Same here. When you haven´t been editing for 3-4 days, I get worried..... Best wishes, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 23:51, 27 October 2016 (UTC) ::::::Given the fact Nish stopped editing on the 24th, after making 250 edits in 17 days, and that the earthquake occured two days later on the 26th, I assume nothing happened and he has taken a Wikibreak. He has been less active already a week before the 19th, supposedly [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nishidani&diff=prev&oldid=745098347 traveling].--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:04, 28 October 2016 (UTC) :::::::After several days of being bolted to bed under a [[Panopticism|neo-Benthamite regime of Foucaultian]] surveillance, of nagging and needling, a moment of freedom, as the women go to market and pharmacy, trusting I am sunk in sleep and can do no damage in their absence. I only have this computer, and must get up and meander through corridors to access it. Nothing serious, just sick 'technically', but I have read a monograph on the Torres Strait islanders and will do some articles on them when back on my feet shortly. The earthquakes were impressive: my bedroom chandelier swayed a few inches for over a minute, twice within an hour, reminding me of great times in Tokyo. Thanks all, Simon below also, for kind thoughts.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:40, 29 October 2016 (UTC) == Nathan Thrall article in NYRB on Obama and Palestine == See [http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/09/10/obama-israel-palestine-parameters-resolution-the-last-chance/ this]. [[User:Kingsindian|Kingsindian]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Kingsindian|&#9821;]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kingsindian|&#9818;]] 10:30, 27 September 2016 (UTC) :Thanks. Actually I read that some days ago, and, I think, no, I recall dropping a note on someone's page, or perhaps I forgot to, to check it out. I'm very impressed by Thrall's work: deeply analytical, an historian's mind with the long term overview wholly detached from the hysteria of reportage, since he looks at the fundamental structures of events with a cold realist eye. I think he is right- I've always considered the problem politically impossible for the Palestinians at least,-if they want justice- and most reportage ditheringly optimistic froth, when not either ideologically blind or foxily mendacious. The only logical step to avert this would be to dismantle the pseudo-state they have, hand over the keys, and sit it out, [[sumud]], in short. But that runs against the nature of things. The important thing is to cut the waffle, in any case, and get the factual record straight, in informed context, as indeed Thrall consistently does.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:49, 27 September 2016 (UTC) :: I think I heard Norman Finkelstein once say that the period just after Oslo and before the talks in 2000 was intended to produce a collaborator class interested in the "good life" in Ramallah, so that they can sell out their country. There's now an industry of NGOs and governmental entities which is just perpetuating the situation. There's nothing really happening politically. Hamas is isolated and the PA is a nullity, whose main purpose is to keep a lid on politics through torture and suppressing dissent. [[User:Kingsindian|Kingsindian]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Kingsindian|&#9821;]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kingsindian|&#9818;]] 11:07, 27 September 2016 (UTC) :::The Oslo Accords were read with prescience for what they would work out to really be, precisely in that way widely among the Palestinian diaspora, as a sop thrown to a potential quisling caste, which would lap it up. Rather harsh, but in hindsight . . Said comes to mind. History never forecloses on the future of course,(to think so is to fall into the teleological fallacy which is so thoroughly embedded in Zionist narratives) but it didn't help that the ablest people within the PLO, and this goes for Hamas as well, were systematically picked off in numerous targeted assassinations. Had the British applied that policy to the Irgun/Lehi insurgency in Mandatory Japan, which formed the model for Palestinian extremism, one would probably have had a different outcome. Of course, the irony is that there is one part of the land that could rightfully claim to have all the requirements of a Palestinian state, untrammeled by settler blocs, territorial disputes, intricate bureaucratic negotiations with an adversary, etc., of the kind that have doomed the West Bank experiment. That is the Gaza Strip: it has access to the sea, fertile soil, an ingenious, hard-working population, offshore gas and fishing resources etc. Water will run out there in 2020, of course, and the hope is for mass emigration and internal collapse. One of the great rifts with the PA, is that the latter, having some formal authority, was willing to hand over the gas reserves to outsiders, for the usual paybacks. Technically it has everything the West Bank lacks. Finkelstein said that when anything mechanical fucks up at his University in Turkey, they call for a Palestinian refugee from Gaza who, raised amidst an endlessly bombed out infrastructure, can repair anything. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:38, 27 September 2016 (UTC) :::: See [https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/346 this]. {{tq| There are some in the Israeli coalition that want to dismantle the Palestinian Authority and take over full control. But the Prime Minister and the Defense Minster, and “certainly the military and intelligence community”, want to keep the PA. There is still intelligence sharing on radicals, but when Israel asks them to arrest the radicals they identify, they refuse, and ask the Israelis to do it, and then protest the arrests. But this is all part of a scenario of cooperation.}} [[User:Kingsindian|Kingsindian]]&nbsp;[[User Talk: Kingsindian|&#9821;]]&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Kingsindian|&#9818;]] 23:31, 10 October 2016 (UTC) == Personal request == As a personal request, could you please give me an approximate translation of [https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1357115060984193&set=a.375217322507310.97997.100000571374588&type=3&theater this text]? [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 11:00, 9 October 2016 (UTC) :<blockquote>The unity of the Palestinian people <br> and the unity of the nation is the main (not sure about this line) <br> strategy for the liberation of Palestine</blockquote> :Something like that--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 11:13, 9 October 2016 (UTC) :: Thanks. That is clear enough. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 11:47, 9 October 2016 (UTC) :::I was at Sunday lunch, a thing which in my scale of values assumes greater importance that the primordial event that created this nook of the cosmic universe. In any case, the link doesn't open, whatever the language. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:38, 9 October 2016 (UTC) ::::<blockquote>وحدة الشعب الفلسطيني<br>ووحدة الأمة من اهم النقاط<br>الاستراتيجية التحرر فلسطين</blockquote>--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 13:59, 9 October 2016 (UTC) :::::I'm refreshed to see you are comfortable with Arabic, beyond the 5 words I think are part of basic IDF training over there. My father had some very entertaining stories about speaking several phrases in Arabic in Cairo during WW2: too 'ripe' to mention here.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:12, 9 October 2016 (UTC) :::::: I would be glad to know Arabic, but I don't. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 14:36, 9 October 2016 (UTC) :::::::It was compulsary in my school, so I have a very good base. Also the words "Palestinian", "Liberation" and "Unity" are words I already recognize because they apear often (they apear in the names of political parties and terrorist organizations), while the word "strategy" is, literally "astrategia". The rest needed google translate.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 15:33, 9 October 2016 (UTC) :::::::: As Hungarians say, and they ought to know:''Ahány nyelvet beszélsz, annyi ember vagy,'' which can be translated as either 'the more languages you speak, the more of a man you are', or 'you are as many persons as the languages you speak'. My compliments.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:38, 9 October 2016 (UTC) ::::::::: Thanks for sharing that proverb with us. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 18:32, 9 October 2016 (UTC) == jesus christ == '''Oddly''' enough, that persistent obfuscation is just enticing me to spend more time on it. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 18:41, 10 October 2016 (UTC)</small> :Taking the Lord's name in vain, again, you jihadi raghead! Yep, it is unbelievable. It's like the good old days, before all those people were banned. Mind you, look on the positive side. I think if anyone us ends up in [[Abu Ghraib]] or its outremer simulacra, we'll be well prepared to pass the stress tests! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:51, 10 October 2016 (UTC) ::This dude is seriously arguing that ''oddly analogous'' means ''not analogous''. What in the actual fuck is going on here. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 18:56, 10 October 2016 (UTC)</small> :::Just ignore it. It's bad faith niggling., The evidence is overwhelming. We're obliged to thoroughly master the topic in question, muster the evidence, paraphrase it fairly, and provide rational grounds for the edit. We're not obliged to engage in pettifogging wars of attrition that have no other purpose, it I might make a reasonable conjecture, than to tie up serious editors in knots not of their making.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:12, 10 October 2016 (UTC) :Nish, I would suggest to try and avoid "Just ignore it. It's bad faith niggling" statements, you"ve recently had an AE because of it and it is a waste of time. Also, it is "Thou shalt not '''carry''' the name of Lord in vain", i.e. do not sin, while carrying the name of God. A good variant is "do not kill civilians while shouting "allahu akbar". There is no "Hebrew Bibile", there is "Best Bible". Get rekt Goyim and your crappy translations.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 01:15, 11 October 2016 (UTC) ::One of the first things in mastering English literature, secular literature even, once consisted in reading closely the King James Version of the Bible (as one must, in studying German, read Luther's version) because all writers great and small had much of it by heart, and it affected the rhythm of their prose and their choice of idiom. The form I cited is proverbial in English and comes from the KJV:'Thou shalt not '''take''' the name of the Lord thy God in vain". Pope John XX111, according to Roman popular anecdote, was once walking in the Sistine, and heard workmen blaspheming heartily when something fucked up, and gently told them:'gentlemen. The Roman dialect is full of words you can use to express wrath. There's no need to take the Lord's name, or that of his mother, in vain.' Of course, yelling ''Allahu akhbar'' while killing the innocent is obscene, indeed a contravention of specific Qur'anic injunctions, just as Colonel Ofer Winter's use of Biblical incitement ([http://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-commander-calls-on-troops-to-fight-blasphemous-gazans/ "History has chosen us to spearhead the fighting (against) the terrorist ‘Gazan’ enemy which abuses, '''blasphemes''' and curses the God of Israel’s (defense) forces,”)] when it was just a matter of putting boots on the ground and killing 1,500 civilians. We live in verbally toxic times, lad, and purity of language, meaning precise, historically understood idiom is one prophylactic against it, as is a bit of comedy. Several years ago, when Nab was under intense verbal crossfire, mocking his background, I dropped a note one his page calling him a 'jihadi raghead' or 'sandnigger', the term of abuse frequent among American soldiers for Iraqis trying to defend their homeland. Someone unfamiliar with our convention, of roughly mocking each other by using terms that, in the mouth of a hostile witness, look abusive, but between us, are intended the other way, reverted it as though it were an attack, missing the irony, and I was close to being reported for attacking him. My permaban came in part from diffs ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=next&oldid=281069824 here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=281071747&oldid=281071446 here] using the kind of hyperbolic remonstration typical of 'buddy talk' (the editor was a British serviceman who'd blown his cool and was close to being banned, by his almost 'suicidal' persistence in counterattacking other editors) that were comical and informed by affection for a person I was trying to help stay on Wikipedia. That too, was misread: everyone, except one admin, read it in the right spirit. As to 'bad faith niggling', that is as dry and objective a description of what is going on on some pages as I can manage. And my message to Nab was, 'ignore it', just as I ignore, and have replied in good faith for some months to, two people I am dead certain are sockpuppets.Still, I appreciate you dropping a note here on things like this.Thanks [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:20, 11 October 2016 (UTC) == NPOVN == No idea what happened there. Had to have been a misclick from my watchlist since AFAIK, I haven't been on NPOVN (on purpose) for at least a week. Sorry about all that. [[User:Timothyjosephwood|<span style="color:#a56d3f;font-family:Impact;">Timothy</span><span style="color:#6f3800;font-family:Impact;">Joseph</span><span style="color:#422501;font-family:Impact;">Wood</span>]] 14:55, 11 October 2016 (UTC) :No problem. Thanks for the note, cheers.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:59, 11 October 2016 (UTC) == Note on missing author(s) and editor(s) == Long citations that have neither of the above cannot use the usual <code>| ref = harv</code> - obvious really, but still a [[proctalgia]]. So you need to invent a link between the long cite and the short-form refs, and to make sure it's consistent between both. In the long cite you can do this using <code><nowiki>| ref = {{harvid|blah|blah}}</nowiki></code> instead, and then make sure the short form uses the same <code>blah|blah</code>. Worth studying [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Karajarri&diff=744241444&oldid=744230881 this diff] for an example of how to do it (look for "harvid"). I also suggest checking for consistency by clicking on each of the blue-linked short cites. If it doesn't take you to the correct long cite, then you've probably misspelled one of the two (quite a few of those in the same diff). Cheers, and good luck on your journey through the intricacies of wiki markup! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 09:21, 14 October 2016 (UTC) :Thanks, that's very helpful. Thanks also for the link to proctalgia which makes perfect sense in classical Greek, but the extra details while refurbish my exhausted vocabulary on the topic will be very handy. (I 'assist' an elderly relative of high academic distinction who telephones every day and dilates in minute detail on his problems with 'air' and 'evacuation'. I take the call to stop my wife, the object of his queries for remedies, from throwing up. Quite often I neck the phone and listen and comment soberly to the ritual 'airing' of senescent discontents while editing, and that, apart from my own decaying brain cells, accounts for many a hurried orthographic or formatting slip).[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 09:40, 14 October 2016 (UTC) ==your opinion is needed== Hi brother. We have talked with each other before. I want you to contribute is discussion [[:Category talk:Palestinian terrorism|here]] please. I explained my point of view but because i cant speak english in good manner the reverted my edit [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents here] althogh it is correct. And some one delete my message from his talk page [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring|see here]]. Regards and sorry if you are bussy and i annoy you--[[User:مصعب|مصعب]] ([[User talk:مصعب|talk]]) 15:07, 16 October 2016 (UTC) :I don't know whether I should get involved. I don't like cats in these types of articles, since they are a cheap way of trying to classify highly ambiguous themes. Number has a technical objection, and though I disagree often with him, he knows more about this than I do, so I have to defer to it. I think much that is classified as 'Palestinian terrorism' is better described as political violence (quite a bit not so). I regard personally the IDF as a often as not behaving like a state-terrorist organization, but not for that reason do I try to alter cats etc, or alter articles with that POV, because sources simply don't accept that view. The only way through this fog is to dedicate one's energies to writing the full history of events with due regard to the scholarship, and neutrally, (even if that means leaving out the obvious) wherever that leads.Sorry I can't help.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:24, 17 October 2016 (UTC) == Extensive rewrite at [[History of Japan]] == Can you check Rjensen's recent edits at [[History of Japan]]? He's made quite an extensive rewrite all of a sudden, including dropping the "Geographical background" section entirely and changing a bunch of date ranges (such as for the [[Jōmon period]]), which I remember were a source of particular contention last year. [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly&nbsp;"the&nbsp;jerk"&nbsp;Turkey]]&nbsp;<span style="color:red">🍁</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']] 22:56, 16 October 2016 (UTC) * It gets worse and worse the more I look at it. Do a before-and-after of "Paleolithic and Jōmon period" ([https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Japan&oldid=742581175#Paleolithic_and_J.C5.8Dmon_period before,] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_Japan&oldid=744706107 after]) [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly&nbsp;"the&nbsp;jerk"&nbsp;Turkey]]&nbsp;<span style="color:red">🍁</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']] 23:35, 16 October 2016 (UTC) ::those were accidental deletions that I have restored. Sorry about that! I have not worked on pre 1500 sections. [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]] ([[User talk:Rjensen|talk]]) 20:14, 17 October 2016 (UTC) :::Well, go easy. This is a problematical article. it shouldn't be as long as one uses a high bar for RS, namely the latest results in each field in the vast world of Japanese studies. One good way is to point out what might strike one as inadequate on the talk page before making extensive changes. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:24, 17 October 2016 (UTC) ::::.I agree. i was NOT trying to add anything new. I accidentally discarded whole sections on the early periods. what I was trying to do was restore solid text that got deleted en masse and I think I restored an old version. ...what happened is thaton 04, 15 August 2015‎ CurtisNaito simply chopped the article in half --he discarded 59,000 bytes with no commentary or discussion!. That was the disaster i was trying to fix without adding anything new. [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]] ([[User talk:Rjensen|talk]]) 20:31, 17 October 2016 (UTC) :::::Well, I don't know how long you've followed this and related articles but basically CN and another editor made a war of attrition to exhaust everyone, replacing good sourcing by bad, and generally fucking up the articles with nationalist POV pushing. I don't like to interfere when serious editors, and you have excellent credentials, hop in to fix the damage wrought and improve the articles. I'm just a Sad Sack with the slops bucket basically, since I don't have much time to fix these things myself. If I can be of assistance just drop me, or a few other walking wounded from the long war, a note, and I'm sure you'll find a spirit of cooperation. The only thing to be careful about here is sources: one needs a winnow and yandy to thresh out the tares even in otherwise respectable RS, when it comes to details at least. Cheers 20:48, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) :::::: [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]]: CurtisNaito and TH1980 have been topic-banned from editing Japan-related articles over the kinds of things they did to the [[History of Japan]] and other articles. There are pages and pages of discussion on the article talk page (and at ANI) over these issues, which came to an end only recently, so hopefully you'll understand why some of us might get paranoid when confronted with yet another unannounced, extensive rewrite. Also, keep in mind that there are aspects of Japanese history that are subject to contentious dispute (see the talk page archives for some examples). [[User:Curly Turkey|Curly&nbsp;"the&nbsp;jerk"&nbsp;Turkey]]&nbsp;<span style="color:red">🍁</span>&nbsp;[[User talk:Curly Turkey|''¡gobble!'']] 23:20, 17 October 2016 (UTC) :::::::I can understand the anxiety. My apology: I goofed and cut large sections at the start of the article. I should have noticed but I & didn't spot it because I'm not much interested in the pre 1500 history & skipped over it. :( [[User:Rjensen|Rjensen]] ([[User talk:Rjensen|talk]]) 00:18, 18 October 2016 (UTC) == list of violent incidents == Have you noticed a rise in the anti-Israeli attacks? There are more reports on stone throwing and injuries. Only today there were four separate incident, three with human casualties. The problem is I cringe everytime I read Ma'an, so I cant practically use it as a source. If I will add the incidents it will make the list unbalanced and negelecting it will make certain weeks completely unbalanced (in the sense that there are incidents missing). So in a nutshall, please return to updating the list (there was an alleged+denied baby killing I forgot to add, maybe its a goos start, if you will see this message within the next 15 hours).--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:16, 18 October 2016 (UTC) [[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:16, 18 October 2016 (UTC) :Don't worry about Ma'an. I'll handle that side. If you could, just keep your ear to the ground for the Israeli reports and add everything you see. The only problem with Ma'an for me is that it tends to drop from view articles dated more than 8 days ago meaning when I get round to catching up, I can't cover those days. I've a backlog to fill: Iave been travelling and haven't found the time. I'll get round to it. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 06:56, 19 October 2016 (UTC) == Autopatrolled == {{ {{#ifeq:|{{void}}|void|Error:must be substituted}}|Autopatrollergiven}} [[File:Wikipedia Autopatrolled.svg|right|80px]] Hi Nishidani, I just wanted to let you know that I have [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3A{{PAGENAMEU}} added] the "{{mono|autopatrolled}}" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on [[WP:NPP|new page patrollers]]. For more information on the patroller right, see [[Wikipedia:Autopatrolled]]. Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! ~ [[User:BU Rob13|<b>Rob</b><small>₁₃</small>]]<sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;">[[User talk:BU Rob13|Talk]]</sup> 16:48, 24 October 2016 (UTC) == There are no words == :Nick, on how to express my thanks for your nomination. One of my greatest wishes is that we could spend a few days together, drinking the good stuff, me scrounging your best quality rolling tobacco, and ''talking''. A lot of time in your garden, quietly observing the simple but beautiful things. Let's do it before we peg out. Seriously. On another subject. What news from the recovering region after the quake? I hope all is well with you and yours. Your friend Simon. [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 02:32, 26 October 2016 (UTC) == FYI == You can go back to older articles in Ma'an, by going to the different pages of the governorates.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 17:04, 27 October 2016 (UTC) And for the map (relieving Huldra from the notifications), I have failed myself and couldn't get the map done before being too tired to continue, so here's a snap of the workplace [https://i.gyazo.com/9cb0dbe8997a93eecccf9570815b284c.png]. If you have any notes it"ll be nice (and I"ll add the names later).--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:45, 1 November 2016 (UTC) ::For Chrissake, it was bad enough to ask others to do work I should have done, let alone to hear you worked away at it to exhaustion. Drop it for the time being, take it easy. There's nothing urgent. The first map you did on Huldra's page was close to perfect, so just leave it at that. Thanks Stav. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 09:32, 1 November 2016 (UTC) As I said, I really have nothing better to do and it was true for the last four days. Here's the completed map: [[File:Djagaraga-Gudang territory in Cape York, Queensland, Australia.png|25px]]. I assumed I should include the island in their territory because it was written in the [[Djagaraga]] lead section.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 15:44, 1 November 2016 (UTC) :::Sorry to be late in getting back. My time has been sequestered all day. The last map is splendid. That's really fine. I must get time to pull my socks up and do some work on the articles that, as you noted, require more imput in the I/P sector. It's just that, working on something really stimulating makes me put that stuff off, since it's only actuarial duty and not informative. No one reads it either. But still, it must be done. Thanks a lot Stav. Enjoy a break, certainly from my pestering. Best regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:00, 1 November 2016 (UTC) ::::BTW, if you want people to read the new articles, you should try for [[WP:DYK]] when I had an article on DYK I got over a few hundred hits during that time period. 🔯 [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">🍸[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 20:10, 1 November 2016 (UTC) :::::Thanks, that's not a bad idea, but I just haven't got much time to get distracted with DYK procedures, since I've got it into my head to do from 300-500 of these articles, overhauling the whole area. It's pretty scandalous that wiki has virtually zilch of the rich ethnographic harvest over the last century on that erased history. You look at numerous town articles, like one I read yesterday on [[Coen, Queensland|Coen]] and find out that their history begins with a European, 1623, [[Jan Carstensz]], and then jumps two and a half centuries till gold was discovered. Not a hint that the [[Kaantyu]] and [[Wik-Munkan]] tribes lived there and left extensive ceremonial sites of totemic stone lines, or ant-bed sacred sites used for complex increase rituals, and intricate papers exist sifting the last murmurs of those tribesmen speaking distinctive complex languages , papers that endeeavour to claw back some lineaments of their obliterated cosmologies. I don't care if the articles aren't read. I do care to see that those victims of genocide are memorialized encyclopedically. I'll probably never finish it, but it must be done, eventually.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:54, 1 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::And the Zionist me looked at the map of the peninsula and asked myself "why don't the Australians prop up a port city there?".--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:48, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::See [[Sahul Shelf]]. Don't want to despoil you of an illusion, but you're not a Zionist: you're an Israeli with a neo-liberal outlook someone confused with Reagan-Thatcherism, caught up as is natural in a doctrinal system that forms part of Israeli national life, but probably an historical impediment to 'normalization'. As to the 'port city there', that is exactly what was attempted, first at Albany Island, then [[Somerset, Queensland|Somerset]], and by various entrepreneurs and multinationals, American, English, Chinese, Japanese, etc. The logic was - there's huge wealth there, let's develop it. I guess you are aware that the [[Kimberley Plan|creation of a Jewish state in north Western Australia]] was an option on the boards back in the 30s. Australians tried to barge in with a cotton-industry and, predictably, turned part of the Kimberley wetlands into a dustbowl in 10 years. By the way, there's a fascinating chap Howard Goldenberg who's been interviewed about his experiences up north, here a list of the interviews [http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/search/?query=Howard+Goldenberg here], or the quick one [http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/rn/podcast/2009/08/lnl_20090806_2218.mp3 here]. Well worth listening to.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:55, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::I don't see how being a neo-liberal (which I wouldn't completely identify as) interferes with being a Zionist, which is more of a nationalist identity rather than an economic one. The fact I support liberal ideas and do not feel racist toward Arabs, doesn't mean I want to live in a binational state or worse. I support the most democratic option of a Jewish state. If the Arabs were smart, they would follow the Druze and be our "dogs" for 50 years, until they would be strong enoguh politically to hold the Jews in the balls, but instead they choose to sit in the opposition, doing nothing and receive only 50% of the votes from the Arabs. I am confident that this scenario will never happen, becuase the Arab parties are Islamist/Communist/Nationalistic and very corrupt. ::::::::And I always say, that the best way to save the Jews, was to bring them to Israel, because the US is not an option, because many Jews were marxist, while most of the Jews would not leave everything behind and move to Unganda, Austrialia, Alaska or Madagascar. If you could gather a couple thousand Jews, infused with nationalism to Israel, they would fastly establish a community that would appeal to the rest, and that's how it grew. Now we are seeing the American Jews being less Jews and more American and they do non-Jewish things, like voting for politically-correct-establishment-allies-corrupted-warmongers like Hillary Clinton. ::::::::In other words, I prefer to give the authority to people of my own kind, and not live as guests in a different country, so if we fuck up, at least we can take responsibility for it. Having no other choices is sometimes better than having multiple choices.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 13:38, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::: ('''Plot spoiler'''. The following stinks of condescension)Well, you're very young, and like vast generalizations, that by their nature cannot be debated. All ideologies, and Zionism is just one little ethnonationalistic variation, tragicomical in its anachronism, give those who grow up within them an infinite series of pat responses that are all utterly predictable. The one certain consequence is that a nationalist, qua nationalist, has nothing to say, because he must yield authority to a form of public discourse that takes precedence over experience, or imposes its interpretations prescriptively over how anything is to be experienced. I've had variations of this conversation with Soviet-or Chinese-area Communists, Hungarian or Ukrainian patriots, Japanese and Korean nationalists, Italian fascists, neocon economists, rednecks, American grand strategists, etc. The language looks different in each case, but if you boil any stretch of it down to a propositional content, it reveals the same closed structure, absolutely impermeable to reality- They're all very eloquent on the big picture: once the conversation is steered to details, personal experience, the intricate complexities of specific historical moments, they get uncomfortable. If I told you that :::::::::<blockquote>I prefer to give the authority to '''people of my own kind''', and not live as guests in a different country</blockquote> :::::::::translates into :::::::::<blockquote>I defer to authority according to the ethnicity of the person wielding it. If the ethnicity is the same as mine, it has more traction on me than it would were it exercised in exactly the same manner by someone whose ethnicity differs from mine.</blockquote> ::::::::: (in very practical wiki terms you give the lie to this because you do not assign automatically more intrinsic merit to a 'pro-Israeli' editor's POV than that of his or her adversary in an edit dispute, but try to evaluate the merits of various proposals rationally) :::::::::This is a tribal attitude.Of course, we're all free to embrace whatever set of values we prefer. But neoliberalism is diametrically opposed to tribalism: its fundamental premise is that the individual is a rational agent best positioned to determine his own choices, and that any collectivist interference in or hindrance to that individualist ethic disrupts the natural optimal allocation of resources in a way detrimental to both the individual's pursuit of happiness and his society's overall wellbeing. The whole project of liberalism is hostile to tribalism (communitarian values, redistributive justice, governmental intervention), which is regarded as a key drag on economic rationality. Like all ideologies, Zionism reckons it can reconcile both, and pragmatically, this works out as Matthew 6:3.'doing acts of charity, do not let your left hand know what your right does'.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:11, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::As a citizen of the State of Tel Aviv, I am well aware of the tribalism and "anachronism" of my views. While I think "anachronistic" is a way of saying "I don't like your notion, but I will criticize it for being outdated", I do accept the idea of tribalism, just like I support the idea of eating - I am a human, and that's what human do. "People of my own kind" do not translated to "Jews", people of my own kind translates to "allies", i.e. most people who have lived in this country for the last 68 years. I won't oppose the notion of a Druze or even Muslim Prime Minister, as long as he is not an: Islamist, Communist or Nationalist (Arab nationalist). All of those three groups, which form the Arab parties in Israel, are hostile to all I believe and not only hostile but also foreign. "My own kind" are the "sane majority" which excludes: radical-left, radical-right, ''Halachic'', islamist, anti-Zionist and ultra-nationalist, these are the people I deem foreign and/or hostile to my ideal state. Marxists, of any shape and form, whether they are "Democratic Socialist" or "Progressive(=Regressive) Left" are not welcome. People who put nationalism as first priority, or people who reject the non-Kosher democracy are not welcome. People who think that you should not defy Israel's construction rules, unless you build on Arab property should be removed from the government. People who get angry at the police for not stopping honor killings, but on the same time refuse to cooperate with the police are not welcome. People who sympthize with the Palestinian cause and/or want a binational state and/or Pales. right of return, are welcome to move to Gaza and live under Hamas. People who shut "the Arabs are cancer and we don't make peace with cancer...everyone who said [population transfer]..is not Jewish, is not Democratic - Jewish Blood on their hands!" should be tortured by the Shin Bet. All of these groups are welcome to be a minority in my country, but I will not submit to them, and those groups, who are a minority in Israel, tend to be the majority in many other countries. ::::::::::My agenda is not the agenda found in Germany, France or the United States, and I do not want to be a minority in those countries. My agenda can only be found among most of the Israelis and some of the world's Jews. In other words, the Jewish state, which still has a majority of "my own kind" and is still democratic, has the best potential to care about my interests, becuase my interests are shared by most of the people here, with all the disagreements, wars and shitty politicians and I wish to conserve that and not submit my life to the Halacha or to a broken Cosmopolitan world, which is a ticking self-destruction bomb that refuses to look at reality in the eyes.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 16:12, 2 November 2016 (UTC) {{od}} And as I said before, I do not think I am a neo-liberal.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 16:13, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::Just to clear up a misperception. When I said anachronism, I was referring to [[Tony Judt]]'s [http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2003/10/23/israel-the-alternative/ essay]. Of course it upset the chattering classes, but it is an exemplary, if obvious, application of historical analysis and sociological reasoning, something regarded with distaste in Zionist discourse.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:36, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::"A state for Jews" and "A state where Jews have privilages" are two versions of the same thing, but the writter decided to use the latter to define the concept of a "Jewish State". :::The Arabs are not constitutionally second class citizens (I"ve read Adala's list of laws, total bullshit), they are de-facto second class citizens, because the tools of Israeli democracy stand in front of their face, but Arabs were never a democratic people. It seems hundreds of years separate us from Arab democracy, which is today synonymous with Authoritarian–Marxism or Theocratical–Islamism, which are usually the outcome of democratic projects in the Arab world. :::The writer is ultra-biased: he completely mislead the reader by very good manipulative tactics. For example, he shows three options in a dilemma: To leave and dismantle the settlements; To annex the territories; To cleanse the country of Arabs. He explains the problem of the second option, saying it will create a clash between "Jewish" and "Democratic". He explains the problem with the third option, saying it is "fascist", but he does not explain the problem with the first option. The ignorant reader clearly understands from the lack of criticism of the first option, that it is the only option, and he would never guess the reason why Israeli withdrawal can't be done so simply, is because Israel doesn't want to create the world's largest terrorist base, while startig a civil war at home. :::Speaking about fascists, the manipulative writer uses the revisionist past of the Herut movement, which he deems as fascist, to try and construct an thesis that explains the Likud party is actually fascist. As far as I know, the Herut movement was not fascist. It was nationalistic, but not fascist and its later ideological father was the first with with the balls to make peace, and with Israel's biggest enemy at the time, Egypt. The movement under Bibi also accepted democracy and continued to implement the Oslo Accords dispite them opposing it in the previous Knesset, which is more than what Marwan Bargouti or Hamas will ever offer with the death of the [[Mahmoud Abbas|Dictator]]. :::The next point the writer makes in order to convince us the Likud is fascist, is that Ehud Barak supports the assasination of "Paletsinian politicians". He asserts that assasinating Palestinians is "political assasination", but the Palestinians are not a state, and their politicians are actively involved in terrorism against Israel (or if you want, "resistance"), including Arafat, Abbas and the rest. Is assasinating [[Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi]] "political assasination"? What about assasinating fascists? Look at the politicians the Palestinians assasinated: [[Abdullah I of Jordan]], [[Wasfi al-Tal]] and [[Rehavam Ze'evi]]. The avarage Palestinian leader is worse than [[Meir Kahane]] in his terrorist, but if his assasination is a "fascist made-political assasination", then the assasination of Kahane as well as [[Binyamin Ze'ev Kahane]], Meir's son, was made by fascists. So can we please go on and ''talk'' about assasinating "fascists"?{{vague}} :::The writer talks about Sharon and Olmert as "bad guys", but Sharon was the one who disengaged from Gaza, while Olmert created the [[Realignment plan]] and was the closest ever to reaching an agreement in the [[Annapolis Conference]], which was the main cuase why he is now in jail. So this article is anachronistic. It doesn't matter who sits at Israel's cabinet, the condescending writers, looking at the Jews with double standard, will always find a way to delegimize them. :::Another way of seeing this writer doesn't really represent reality is the way he says "''There are indeed Arab radicals who will not rest until every Jew is pushed into the Mediterranean, but they represent no strategic threat to Israel''" yet Hamas was elected in 2006. Everyone who observed the Palestinian community with honesty since 1920 knows the reality did not change. Recently discovered Benny Morris agrees with that notion, which was surprising. The Second Intifada is all the proof needed. :::Later the writer adopts the Benjamin Netanyahu Doctrine: ''Frighten them with Nukes''. Yeah, Israel has nukes, and? What does that prove to you? That Israel is North Korea? ''They are the strong and the Falastinyyun are the weak'', cause in the 50s Israel created nukes, long before Israel occupied the West Bank or Gaza. Give me one good reason for Israel to destroy its nuclear monopoly. :::And the writer blames Israel's ''North Korea-like'' behavior to the world's loss of faith in the US which supports it, but the reason why the world is loosing faith in the US, especially in 2003 was because of [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YtF76s-yM this]. Also, Russia and Qatar do a fairly good job at spreading anti-Western agenda worldwide. But ''NO, the Jews are to blame''. We also killed the dinosaurs apparently. :::Reaching only half of the aritcle, I really have no interest in continuing to read, it"ll probably be the same things I hear all day. Frankly, most of this article's ideas can be found in comments made by actual anti-semites all accross the internet, which shows exactly the only outcome of this article: to arm ignorants with "rational" arguments to justify their love for roasted Jews. It reminds me of the shameless arguments made by Adolf H... Sorry, by Ilan Pepe, which is amazingly worse than Gideon Levy. (And I really don't mind comparing Pepe to the Furher, he has done the same with me).--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 18:57, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::I reread this, and your update. It's all very primitive. I've read 3 books and numerous essays by Tony Judt. You haven't, but have a huge set of opinions about what he studied in profound depth for several decades on the strength of an unfinished glimpse at one article he wrote. As to the bold off-the-cuff adolescent generalizations, like 'Arabs were never a democratic people,' well, a jejune reader of [[Israel Shahak]]'s books might slip into the temptation of replacing Arabs with 'Jews' above, since Shahak's argument is that the whole emphasis of Jewish religious tradition is theocratic, ethnocentric and anti-democratic. But to do so would be to commit the same error you make, identifying a cultural essence from one thread of tradition and sticking it as a destiny on people ethnically related to it - which is typical of what dyed-in-the-bull nationalists always do. Like it or not, Islamic civilization for 1,300 years has adorned with magnificent architecture and splendid poetry, to speak of just a few things, everywhere from India to Morocco, Sicily and Spain, and any heir to that civilization can feel profoundly in debt to the way that tradition inflected the world, not to speak of the fact that it was the only place Jewish communities thrived for over a millennium free of the lethal hatred and anti-Semitism which the West inflicted on Jews (I know, [[dhimmitude]]: yawn). One of my most moving experiences was waking at dawn in Beit Sahour to a muezzin's call over Bethlehem. Israel is now suppressing this inimitable part of the historic landscape of its nook in the Middle East by banning that, too, as 'noise pollution'. I'll copy a passage I once wrote out based on a memoir by a NYT journalist:'A devoutly Christian ancestor of [[Anthony Shadid]], to cite one unforgettable example, lived in a Greek Orthodox village, [[Marjayoun]] just north of Palestine, side by side with a small but devout Sunni minority, and on occasion the fellow would ascend the minaret and do the muezzin a favour by sharing the burden and singing out over the town the prayers of his Muslim neighbours. His voice was famous for its sweet, powerful euphony, and the gesture, lending his gift to the faith of a minority, secured a conviviality we can no longer imagine.' This is called tolerance, and it is what is fast disappearing from our collective landscape-[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:12, 26 November 2016 (UTC) ::::I guess you're not interested in getting a tertiary education?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:51, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::::I still wonder what would make you assert that. Though maybe I"ll find a better path as a real-estate gambler.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 20:06, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::Because all the above reminds me of myself at 17, before I acquired one of several educations that made me think for myself, rather than being the quickest kid in the schoolyard with a Time magazine or Times of London mastery of every topic. And I seriously thought that I'd do better hitchhiking around the world while washing dishes or herding sheep or whatever was needed for a feed, than absorbing a tertiary education[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:13, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::Seems like you never lived in Israel. If you don't go get tertiary education here, unless you are one of a thousand, you would be considered a failiure. We are Jews, what do you think we do? We even have a term called "Khamor Meduplam" which means "a Diplomed [[Donkey|Ass]]". So yes, obviously I am planning to get tertiary education, after I"ll finish occupying Palestinians. I was thinking about taking a history course in a collage before the army, advised by my cousin who now learn criminology, which would not give me a degree (obviously) but would give me a diplome and points for a future degree, but they said I can't do the course until I will be assigned to a spesific role in the army, which had yet to happen and the deadline was reached (with your spesific role you also get your actual enlistment date). After the army I might learn history or law.. I don't know yet and I have some time to think about it.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 20:50, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::::I lived and worked in Israel when most Israelis around me had no tertiary degree, and the level of secondary education was lower than it was in the West Bank and Gaza. A tertiary education's neither here nor there: it's useful only for (a) securing a job, which means it really isn't educational, or (b) if you study under a first rate mind or two, in which case, you get an education. Probably (a) is better because it pays bills and makes one feel comfortable, unlike (b) which only gives a return on capital investment after a decade or two.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:16, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::^Friendly reminder I don't live in Israel but the State of Tel Aviv.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:18, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::Yes, and its capital is [[Tel Aviv University|TAU]].[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:22, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::::Young Bolter21 is very sharp. Evening lads. [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 21:25, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::::'Jagged' rather than 'sharp'. 'Sharp' implies 'honed', Simon. If you showed the above obiter d. to a history prof on day one of your sophomore course, you'd walk out of college with a leaky freckle, and it would have nothing to do with politics.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:31, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::::Jagged as a broken guinness bottle ready for battle on a saturday night. [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 21:36, 2 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I was exactly Bolter's age when I had a 6 footer, 30 year old drunken hooligan thrust a jagged beer bottle against my throat, threatening to slit it if I moved, and thus forcing me to watch two of his drunken hulking mates beat the shit out of my elder brother simply because he tried to intervene to stop a fight. He had a dislocated jaw, a face completely out of shape. How to hide that from parents? We got up at dawn, went to the beach, and came back saying he'd been hit in the face by a fast surfboard riding a tall comber. It worked.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:16, 2 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::::::It's about time to stop the drunken terrorism. It seems the President of the Phillipines is gonna prevent incidents like you had, by killing you instead.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:25, 2 November 2016 (UTC) So.. what are you doing in Italy, given the fact you were in Japan in the past? I believed you are American/British. If you care to answer.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:21, 12 November 2016 (UTC) ::I was in a lot of countries in the past. I'm of Irish descent, mainly. I retired to Italy because it (a) was the cheapest place (b) with half of the artistic patrimony of the world in its little peninsula, within walking or hitchhiking distance (c) they were the only people at the time devoid of nationalistic feelings in the political sense (d) it was a failed nation-state with all of the wisdom of 2,500 years of coping with power elites and surviving their folly (e) where your average Tom, Dick or Harry (Tizio, Caio o Sempronio) had a greater capacity to think for himself, rather than have someone on the radio, or television or in parliament do his thinking for him, as was the case in 'advanced' Anglophone countries and oriental developmental states (f) it has the best food and cuisine in the world, and you can eat as well in a neighbour's house or at home for a few dollars as a millionaire might forking out a few hundred dollars at the [[Tour d'Argent]], (g) it had no pretensions to being anything other than a decent society for anybody who was patient enough to figure out how to get by in the midst of the endless shenanigans of the system. Nothing is taken for granted, which is what the usual idiots in the 'developed world' are socialized to do. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:27, 12 November 2016 (UTC) :::An efficiant human being.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 15:35, 12 November 2016 (UTC) '''November's response''' Orientalism aside, the first democratic project that worked in the Middle East was in Tunisia, and no one knows if it will last. The Jews established one state and so far, it is still democratic and despite the talks of a Left-Right civil war, it is also stable. The only country in Israel's proximity that can claim the same is maybe Saudi Arabia, but it is the mother of the police states. I am not a big fan of Islamic civilization, and it is not discrminiation, I just didn't find my self reading a lot about the periods between the fall of Rome and the renaissance. I am also not a big fan of the music, oddly I love Baroque and Northeast Asian throat singing, with some love of several Japanese folk songs. I am also not a big fan of their architecture, or architecture in general. And I also don't like Algebra. And "Israel" didn't ban the Mosque's speakers, nor did it even reach a vote in the Knesset. And it doesn't matter if you see it as "beautifull", the speakers did not exist in the days of Muhammad and they are annoying to those who live in their proximity. The hills of Samaria are also beautiful, will we stay in the settlements because of this? As for tolerance, I was subjected to my Orthodox uncle's rules when I visited my grandmother, and I grew to despise Rabbanic Orthodox Judaism. A year ago I realised that I can't take [[Meretz]]'s approach of condamning Jewish rabbis, while calling for tolorance for Muslims. Speaking of Muslims, I wonder if Palestinians just displaced 1,600 Israelis by burning their rightfull land.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:05, 26 November 2016 (UTC) ::It doesn't take any national genius to establish a small state under multipolar international great power protection, funded by $150 billion dollars from just one source, with watertight guarantees for massive military assistance whenever you get into some difficulty, and friends in the right places virtually everywhere where the key decisions are made. The Palestinians are friendless, treated like shit, from the Ottomans onward, and even have trouble gathering in their olive harvest. We have a another shared interest. I've seen a fair bit of bad behavior, I've even been, or had, close friends threatened, by aboriginal people heirs to ancient angers against the new foreign immigrant majority in their countries. Fortunately, I had exceptionally gifted parents re ethnic sensitivities whose understanding of the hidden shame of 'white' history in Canada, America, Australia and New Zealand was quietly impressed on me from childhood - the lesson was one inimitably versified by Auden ::''I and the public know ::''What all schoolchildren learn, ::''Those to whom evil is done ::''Do evil in return. ::[http://www.poemdujour.com/Sept1.1939.html That's a great poem to familiarize yourself with], at a certain age. I recite it quite often when walking long miles through big cities. ::I was a great fan of [[Tuvan throat singing]] after listening to it in a link in a Scientific American article years ago. Every now and then I seek out new performances, but have been disappointed over the last two years. All you get is a sinocentric or nationalist imitation because it is commercially highly popular. But I can still feel the deep chill-thrill of the counterpointed rumbling imitative of mountain waters in the SA article. Like a thousand wonderful things it took 10,000 years to work out, and on, it will go down the tube or end up as a piece of junk in the world's infinite trashheap of memorabilia.ps. Samaria was not part of the Judaic world as that is imagined today. It was a very distinct culture, Samaritan, pagan, and Judaic, but no one's exclusive landscape. I must rush to see [[Jean-Claude Van Damme|van Damme do some massive damage after getting the shit beaten out of him]]. Somehow doses of the neanderthal negative make my mornings, by abreaction, more lucid. Cheers lad, and take care now[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:38, 26 November 2016 (UTC) :I didn't really compare Israel to Palestine, I compared Israel to the entire Arab world. And in your description of Israel's inception you forgot the fact we are talking about mostly 40 years of migration and refuge, that established a complex society, built from people of different cultures and traditions and a stable nation was created, which is still democratic. I don't know many simmilar cases. And the US funding can be cancelled. We receive money from the US in order to buy weapons from the US, but if we were less of a Likudnic Banana Republic, we might"ve created our own weapons, but drastic moves and Israel are two things that don't appear in the same sentence usually. And the funny part about throat singing, is that it opened me to Death Metal.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:07, 26 November 2016 (UTC) ::The error is in comparing one nation to a whole civilization. I hope your dislike of Algebra (the modern world arguably began when Descartes reformulated traditional algebra by applying it to the dimension of geometry) doesn't extend to set theory? Nations/states are members of a larger category (think of the difference between [[hypernym]] and [[hyponym]] by analogy), that of civilizations. There are innumerable books on every nation of the type (America and the world, China and the world, India and the world, and though curious to browse through, they are formulated meaninglessly, since the operative presupposition, comparing one entity in a category to all the other entities in that category, as if the latter constituted a valid object of contrast with the former, is conceptually flawed. It's confounding ''genus'' and ''species'', in short, like writing of one sub variety of [[Felidae]] like the [[Chinese mountain cat]] and arguing about its differences with the rest of the whole genus, bundling up panthers, lynxes, pumas etc. into a contrastive taxonomy. Or to use the analogy from semantics, treating as an intelligible set for contrast, a colour like yellow with all the other shades in the set of 'colour'. Israel is one nation of 200, an offshoot of the family of Western states (subset: colonial enterprise states), whereas the 'Arab world' you refer to is a supranational category, treated as though it were a subset of itself. The error is endemic, even in academia, but commonplace in popular newspaper and opinion, but makes no sense. The premise underlying it is '[[exceptionalism]]', and virtually all books that make this category/subset confusion do so with the assumption that the chosen nation, the US/China/Russia/or in this case 'Israel' is somehow ontologically different from the collective set of nations/ or indeed the general run of all nations in the world. Nation states can be compared structurally, like tribes can me, but you can't compare with heuristic profit one nation state or tribe with all other states/tribes. An anthropologist would get nowhere trying to outline the nature of say the [[Barasana]] by using as a contrast [[Mesoamerica|Mesoamerican civilization]]. I have a heavy day of birthday partying and the monstrous pressure of an Italian Sunday dinner ahead and must do some wiki work to justify this excursus in non-wiki pontification. Keep well.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 09:07, 27 November 2016 (UTC) :::My "Arab thesis" is based mostly on observing 2016s Arab society, as well as reading some articles and talking to no more than ten Arab people in the last 2 years. Surely it can't be applied to the entire Arab world (And I am one of those who refuse to connect my Algerian heritage to "Mizrah". I am "Maghrebi", not "Mizrahi", though I also have Lebanese heritage), and surely it is far from being any close to an academic level, but I still believe in it. The main problem is terminology, and in English I tend to struggle in logically explaining things. While both the speaker and the listener are confident the message is clear, a later look will reveal that the way I explained something was actually wrong. I"ll let it be my excuse for now. As for terminology, I always struggle with "ethnicity", "nationality", "culture" etc. Israeli textbooks, Wikipedia and scholars all say different things. I grew to like the term "mentality". From my observation, it seems that most of the Arab nations are incapable of accepting supreme national authority when it is not oppressing them. You sometimes have to ask, "why is there more crime in the Arab parts of Israel?" Is it soley because they are mostly low class? I think that the lack of cooperation with the police is a major contributer, but another strong factor, is the fact that Arabs don't always make "peace with the establishment". While I think following the law is "moral", they don't always. I remember doing dozens of shifts with a medic called "Muhi" (Muhammad), who is an established Arab man, with wife and chilren, who lives in central Tel Aviv after moving from the Galilee. I had many conversations with him about life, and I saw a difference between the mentality he has in compare to the Jewish medics as well as what I have at home and in school. The things that matter to the avarage Tel Avivian are being intelectual and thinking about a career, while Muhi, as well as the other Arab medics in Magen David Adom cared less about how they"ll make their money, but more about what they will do with the money. Also in their work as medics there was a difference. The Jewish medics talked a lot about doing things properly, following protocols and going by the book, while the Arab medics did everything, as long as it worked. They all did their job successfully, but not "by the book". It has its pros and cons. For example, one of the Arab medics taught me shortcuts in tasks such as preparing an oxygen mask, working the bed and operating in the hospital. Surely when we made CPRs the Arabs followed the protocols and worked by the book, I don't think I need to explain why. The cons of this mentality, is that most of the ambulances were usually messy, and the medics did things I personally can't do, like eating while driving a patient to hospital, or leaving bags of [[gauze]]s and sticks used for [[glucometer]]s. I was able to connect this mentallity to the mentallity interprated from the news coming from Syria and Iraq. I don't like the saying "they are simple people", becuase it will be wrong. They are simple in the eyes of those who live by values originated in Europe, but the Arab people simple have a different mentallity. You can say all about them, but in the reality test, you"ll see that eventually, the Arab man will first fight for his ''hamula'', and his religion, before he will fight for you. Exceptions do exist, Egypt for example, which has expirianced some degree of independence since the 19th century. You can also see Syrians infused with Syrian nationalism, who die fighting for Assad, but you also see the rebels and the rest of the loyalists, who die for the tribe they affiliate themselves with. It can also be seen among the Palestinians, especially in 1948.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 10:50, 27 November 2016 (UTC) :::A lot of interesting ancedotes there. I know what you mean: people who live in fucked up states, or in states where they are marginalized as second-raters, have a natural tendency to develop empirical life skills the elite don't think professional. Italy is full of people exactly like the Arabs you describe: nothing's done by the book, because if you do, more often than not, the system will fuck you up, so you play things by ear and learn to think contextually, according to immediate needs. We had a magnificent surgeon at a local hospital for some decades, until it was found out he was the son of a butcher, who forged his qualifications because he couldn't afford a degree. Nothing 'Arab' about that. Put any 'Arab' of talent into a functional society that accepts him, and you'll see him or her qualify and behave along with the best, as any visit to a hospital in England, or the US and you will note no difference in professionalism ethnically. Same in gaza. Those mediocos and ambulance sataff there have been described in detail by many foreign colleagues, and are regarded as miracle-workers in a chronic disaster area where no resources demands ingenuity not according to the book. It's a survival mentality born of systemic insecurity, as opposed to a technical mentality standard among people who are fully integrated into a functional social system. As to crime, the name case is made against American blacks, or Australian aborigines. One day you should read [[Ernest Gellner]]'s ''Muslim Society''. And now, social obligations require me to don the dominical nose-bag for some hours.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:14, 27 November 2016 (UTC) ::::My British-cultured Sephardi grandfather used to annoy his Italian sister-in-law by saying "the Italians are the Arabs of Europe".--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 11:31, 27 November 2016 (UTC) :::::It's a compliment: the Egyptians are the Neapolitans of the Arab world, in that sense. It's one reason why, in military missions, the Italians rarely have the problems gung-ho ideologically primitive states like the US and Israel have. Send them anywhere and they know how to fit in. Lebanon's quiet also because the UN [[United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon|sent in Italian contingents]], who know how to make themselves accepted, as they do in [[Herat Province]]. When no outsider could step into al-Qaeda held territory, Italians ran their base hospitals there under the direction of a man who deserves a Nobel prize several times over, [[Gino Strada]], head of [[Emergency (NGO)|Emergency]]. I'm glad to have adopted Italy: anywhere I travel, all I need to do to figure out a problem in any country is to ask some local Italian, and they sort everything out. They save 1,000-2,000 people, Africans, Arabs, you name it, every day in the Mediterranean, bringing them into their ports where they obtain provisional security, unlike 26 of the 28 states in the EU that get hysterical about 'foreigners', 'Arabs' etc. An illegal Senegalese immigrant with no papers dropped down in the streets of Naples, and was ferried to an emergency ward nearby. He had no identification, but the problem emerged that he needed expensive heart surgery. The administration faxed the Health Ministry for instructions and were duly informed that it was the state's obligation to provide health care to anyone requiring it, regardless of circumstances. He had the operation at Italy's expense. They are in this sense one of the few civilized countries in the world (Of course there are political movements here too that are outraged and want to be xenophobic - perhaps they will win out, but in the meantime, this tradition of 'mediterranean' values, not Nordic racist efficiency and cost-benefit analysis, prevails).[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:23, 27 November 2016 (UTC) :::::In any case with all the Sephardic, Maghrebi, French etc. mixtures in your background Stav, you are primarily everything from that multiplex of cultures, histories and backgrounds, plus, of course, your unique self. That kind of identity is more complex than any petty formal documentation about what state claims for you. Jewish heritage should not be reduced to some 'Israeli' boiler-plate or mononational melting pot: Israel's heritage should be expanded by recognizing the plethora of identities always available to the far-flung cosmopolitan fraternities and sororities of 'Jews'. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:32, 27 November 2016 (UTC) The positive traits that you have attributed to Italians can also be attributed to practically all humans everywhere on the planet, today and throughout the history of human civilization. This includes, but is not limited to, Israeli Jews, Israeli non-Jews, Palestinians, Arabs, etc., as well-as non-Mediterranean Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc... People are fundamentally good. We generally prefer to help each other and build each other and develop each other. We are built to instinctively feel we are all [[Mitochondrial Eve|brothers and sisters]], basically, and to feel deep enjoyment when we do good deeds for each other without expecting any payment (financial or otherwise) in return. [[User:IjonTichyIjonTichy|Ijon Tichy ]] ([[User talk:IjonTichyIjonTichy|talk]]) 14:22, 28 November 2016 (UTC) :The reason to why this approach will never work is exactly the reason why this approach is wrong. Humans are not fundementaly good. We are creatures who murder and genocide. You can either face it, or not think about it, but trying to change that will end in the consumption of your values by some other one's values, who are strong. I once saw a post saying that there is an uninevitable cycle, in which harsh times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men and weak men create harsh times. We are heading towards harsh times in the West, when all of our theories and values will crumble in front of our faces. One of the things I see is the emergence of the mockingly nicknamed ''Social Justice Warriors'', which is a broad term that today defines the 21st century's [[Identity politics]] such as [[Third-wave feminism|Third]] and [[Fourth-wave feminism]], [[Black Lives Matter]] as well as broken versions of [[Progressivism]] and excessive [[Political correctness]]. All of these movements are have parallels to Marxism, in the way they are a loud minority of the population that demands the entire society to submit to their values and should you not, you are a "mysoginist", "rape-apologist", "anti-woman", "racist", "fascist", "regressive", "islamophobe", "homophobe", "transphobe". In the US in particular, they might condamn you for being a "white heterosexual male" and if you don't submit to their values, they will claim you don't understand what does it means to be "poor", "discriminated" or "hated" because you are a "white heterosexual male". It is not a coincidence that many of those movements are accosiated with [[Cultural Marxism]]. :The outcome of those movements will be the end of western civilization, as the western values that held it togather will crumble and it will be consumed by madness and stupidty, which are the traits found in Radical-Left and Radical-Right. If you go by the path of Social Justice Warriorism, you will either end up with a failing society, caused by all of the non-issues raised by the SJW, or else you will cause the Far-Right Wing to rise and destroy the society in a different way. :When either of the scenarios will happen, the people who thought humans are fundementaly good, will realise the huge amount of bad humans that were created by the current reality. Just look at the protests in response to Donald Trump's election. :In Israel and Palestine we kill as part of a conflict, because we are having a harsh time. In the US they are in the "good time" period, and their humane instinct made them search for conflict, and they found it in attacking Trump or Hillary supporters. The same somewhat happened in Israel. In the 90s we had quite a good time, while the Palestinians had a bad time, causing them to start the intifada. The developments in Israel, caused by the fact we were no longer threatened by Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria have led to the explosion of the conflict with the Palestinians, as a Prime Minister was murdered and the peace attempt failed, leading to the Second Intifada and the wars in Gaza. :One period of good time was the preset to the death of thousands. It was once said that the best way to destroy Israel is to make peace with it. :We can argue all day, if I am right or wrong when I say we shoudl acknowlege it as an inevitable fact, but only time will judge.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 16:30, 28 November 2016 (UTC) ::I'm sorry to have to make this annotation, B, but nothing you wrote would be interpreted in any other way by the classical theorists of the state, liberals mostly, than as a somewhat garbled rehash of Fascist rhetoric. This is one area where I have extensive competence regarding the literature on the 20s and 30s in several states. It only shows you read a lot of internet talk in this putatively post-ideological world, stuff filtered down from Breitbart.com per [[Steve Bannon]], or [[Ayn Rand]] websites (might rules the world: the chattering classes are wimps), to give it an 'improving' name. They key is that, in a world of complex geopolitical, financial and social upheavals, you target a small number of 'leftist' cultural 'whingers' as the cause of our contemporary blindness, when, for all the attention they get in a certain vein of the media, that have zero impact, on society, on politics, on general opinion. We saw this in the 1920s,30s, with societies in distress raging about cosmopolitanism (Jews and broadscale thinkers, who had little impact, and in the so-called [[Culture war]]s of the 1980s-90s, all intensely boring) I might add that you make an error in saying 'we' in the West. Israel is not a Western society, at least yet, though it is true that Western societies might succumb to the temptation of becoming more like Israel, i.e., abolishing 200 years of political history, social engineering and thought in order to refurbish themselves in an updated version of the old authoritarian pre-enfranchised societies of the 1800s. If so, anti-Semitism will revive as anti-Islamism, and perform exactly the same function that anti-Semitism did in the reactionary strata, elitist and popular, down to the 1930s. And lastly, [[Identity politics]] is what Israel, and its claim on the diaspora has been about, with almost unparalleled, intensity for its national mindset, since the late 1960s, compared to which the movements you name are piddling. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:40, 28 November 2016 (UTC) :::I sometimes consider Israel as West and sometimes not, but one thing is sure, in Israel we share more values with the West than most countries in the world, even though the opinions, mentallity and culture are differnet. So in this context I would regard Israel as western. And while you make this annotation about this comment I made on the Left, I havent even started talking about the Right. I"ll remind you that while the source of "blindness" in Europe comes from the leftist governments, in Israel it actually comes from the Right Wing government. Sadly the Left in Israel has succumbed to the Right, and suddenly the Labour Party defines it self as "centirst" becuase they don't want to sound "Leftist". The Labour Party, which used to fight for separation of state and religion, suddenly tries to convince religious people that they are on their side. The outcome is that the only real Leftist party is Merertz, which I personally hate, as they are too Far-Left for me. A simmilar things happens in Germany. The Left controls the country, and condamns all right wing parties as being too nationalistic and.. the N word. The right wing parties succumb to the Left generaliztion and the outcome is that the only parties that remain a real alternative to the Left are the Far-Right wing parties. In Israel the situation is different than in Germany, becuase in Israel we did not have anything equivelent to the Migrant Crisis and in Israel elections are on political tribalism and not on policy since 2009, but there are parallels. It was tempting to say I am Right-Wing, becasue of my opposition to the Left (and not "centre-left"), but I can't identify with most of the things represanted by the Right, in Israel and in the world. I am one of those people who will argue with anyone, and I would think it is an addiction unless I found out that there are [[Lior Schleien|people with whom I actually agree almost on anything]]. When I argue with you Nishidiani, or with IjonTichy, I say things that are "somewhat garbled rehash of Fascist rhetoric", when I argue with Right-Wing people, I am suddenly a "blind leftist". :::I assumed while writing, but forgot to explain it, that you would understand from my comment that I support the state of war and the idea of "strong men", but I don't. I just think it is inevitable and we are not here to prevent it, but here to limit and supress it as much as we can. I don't think that an all-out-war with the Palestinians is something that can be prevented, it will happen in the future. And if not, one day, in the next century, more or less, Israel will collapse, just like every other state in the world. When we determine the policy today, we also determine the setting for the future, and a Third World War, or a massive economic criris, or overcorruption might happen, but we have the tools to delay it and go around it, to move towards the next threat. Every step in the right direction, gurantees another century of prosperity to the society. I think that the developments in the US are a step in the wrong direction, when the society deals with non-issues, like the sex of the President or his colour. I also think that legalizing [[Amona, Mateh Binyamin|Amona]] is a step in the wrong direction as well as the appointment of [[Miri Regev]] as the [[Minister of Culture and Sport]].--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 18:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC) ::::Nothing's inevitable: to think so is to assume god's prescience. Whatever the big picture, one does, every day, in the smallest of routines, affect it, by one's exercise of choice, one's manner with others,etc. I have a darker picture than you of the future, I can afford to, since I won't be there. It's hard enough for anyone raised in the 'good' period of the post-war era not to, having seen what societies can do when they go through the washer, end up comprehending evil, and work to the common good, which means allocative democracy, not market plutocracy as we have now. The fantasy of an all-out-war with the Palestinians is just that. There is zero interest in that among Palestinians, except as a coffee set-piece of exasperative mouthing off. Israel gets hysterical about Hamas, which in 2014 threw back, mostly into the desert a massive 40 tons of explosive on 4,000 'missiles' (read fizzle rockets and mortars) while Israel unleashed 20,000 tons. That is the scale of the disparity, the 'existential threat'. It's all Saderot cinema, really, this panicky apocalypse. What Israel appears to find totally relentlessly disgusting about Palestinians is that they can take that, and more, for several decades, and still not fuck off. You can't get their 'respect' and submission as a people. There society is so thoroughly penetrated by your services that dossiers exist, and informants supply information, on virtually every household. Nothing can happen there without someone hearing of it. If such a thing happened, it would do so only because Israel decided to adopt some pretext to finish the issue and clean out the West Bank, as it thought of doing by negotiating with Egypt to expel the Gazans into the Sinai recently [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:39, 28 November 2016 (UTC) :::::I think we"ve got to the point where I start not agreeing with myself, something I hate to admit, which means I talked too much without thinking with myself. Anyway, I"d like to remain on one point, of the all-out-war between Israel and the Palestinians. I stay on Israel's side obviously, and comdamn the Palestine just like every "good boy" would do, but seeing the developments with the [[Jewish Home]] party as well as the shiting of the Likud from the original Right wing policies to the Religious Zionism policies, I am sure that one of the main reasons why peace will not come is the fundementalism of the Religious Zionists movement in Israel. Seeing how they treat Amona, a crappy illegal outpost of caravans on private Palestinian land, I can't imagine what will happen when they will force the evacuation of [[Kiryat Arba]], a settlement of more than 5,000 people which has 3,800 years of Jewish connection (whether you believe in Abraham or not, and I don't). In 2008 the evacuation might have happened, but in 2016 it surely can't, after ''Cast Lead'', ''Protective Edge'', the ''Silent Intifada'' and the ''Intifada of Individuals'', the Israeli society is too loaded to support the Two-State Solution. The change is not in the number of seats in the parliament, but in the ''de facto'' power. The Left in Israel is crumbling and if a new [[Kadima]] won't apear in the next two years, it might be too late, because [[Naftalie Bennet]] is holding the furher in the balls and most certainly return to his power of more than 10 seats as he had in 2013. Israel is today ruled by the Religious Right wing, what we in the Left like to call "a minority of fanatics". I am able to blame the Palestinians for that, but most of all I blame the Left, and after seeing all of my friends and family supporting the Left in 2006, 2009 and 2013, a year ago I have withdrew my ancestral support.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 00:43, 29 November 2016 (UTC) :::I've never understood what 'leftist' means in most societies. Americans call them 'liberals', liberals are right-wingers in England and Australia. I see a lot of perceptive decent Israelis but no party that could be called 'leftist' in the old sense. Zionism was basically socialism+colonialism - go figure how that works out in terms of ''gauche/droit''! a Not that that matters. Even a murderous fascist prick like Sharon could withdraw from Gaza. :::'''3,800''' years of Jewish connection (Kiryat Arba). Just a small thing, but I keep seeing that 3,800-4,000 figure arise all over the Israeli press, or from your PM and various mouthpieces. I mean, really, everyone can do elementary math. 2000+800 means 2,800. Why tack on the extra millennium, back so far when Jews didn't exist? The Jewish presence in Hebron (I basically wrote the article) goes back to the 8th century. Then after 2 centuries, with the exile, it became an Edomite/Arab territory basically, and stayed that way. Whatever Jews remained there or settled there, were never more than a handful of families, esp. over the last 5 centuries when it was repopulated. Most of those families are disgusted with the Yanky mob who made claims fore repossession in their name, one even transferred his property title to the Hebron municipality in 1974. [[Kiryat Arba]] had zero religious significance. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC) ::::To me the damn "mount" with the germy wall, full of Haredi cells and letters containing plagues and emberassing wishes has no significance. I would be happy if we would just take a D9 and raze the entire mount, regardless of which stone is claimed by which religion. The 3,800 years of Jewish connection, is based on the biblical story, call it a tradition. While I care more about the sacrafice of the residents of people, the fact that Kiryat Arba is the wannabe Jewish Hebron is also important, and people will not accept its dismantlement. ::::Speant three days in the West Bank, I even had the oppertunity to take a picture of Ramallah from Psagot.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:39, 29 November 2016 (UTC) :::::The Palestinians did not accept the expropriation of 50,000-80,000 houses and properties they owned in Israel in 1948. All West Jerusalem was Arab property. In every peace negotiation Israel has accepted in principle (though the US and EU would pay) that compensation is due to the Palestinians for the 'dislocation' caused by Israel's foundation. Jews had 6% of the property/land in Palestine in 1947, the UN plan gave them sovereignty over 56% and a few months of war they got 78%. 'Not enough! More, more! cheap. All you need is to scream 'terrorism!' Arabs! existential threat!!,' shoot a bit, and you get another 100 sq.kilometres of property on the real estate market at a pittance, ready to be given to immigrants .The infrastructure at Kiryat Arba is an obvious recompense: but it is not important. No one objects to that, really. It's the 800 religious dingbats and racists inside Hebron proper that should be expelled from the West Bank, so that the city can resume its normal life, and 30,000 Arabs return to the central market area.Of course, this won't happen.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:31, 30 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::Ready to be given to immigrants? The apartment prices rose in 80% since 2008 becuase the Israel Land Administration does not release the +90% of Israel they own. Seriously now, the Palestinians had nothing to say in the expropriation of their houses. The residents of Kiryat Arba are going to make sure there will be pools of blood before anyone will try to first evacuate them. And yet there is no connection between the events of 1948 and the event of a peace agreement between Israel and the PLO. What you said reminded me of the argument made by the return plan of the Palestine Land Society, which gives the only existing plan (I know of) that actually describes the Palestinian return. According to them, the decendents of refugees from the Gaza Strip will be populated in the northern part of the Negev. How? By kicking all 140,000 "rural Jews" and settling the million + Palestinians in the rural areas. What is their excuse? "They had no right to be there in the first place". Norman Finkelstein once said about the BDS that they think they are very smart, when they say they want to turn Israel into a binational state, end the occupation and allow the right of return, but when they go outside and meet with Israelis who say "what about us?" they have nothing to say, and thus it is a cult. You can't say that "Kiryat Arba" has no significance and dance with historical records and create analogies with the events of 1948, trying to create a moral thesis. What matters is not the morallity of the actions, but their implication. You cannot go to Kiryat Arba with D9s, history books and moral arguments and expect thing to go well. Those people don't care about your opinion, this is their home, whether you think they deserve it or not, and I have no sympathy to the residents of Kiryat Arba, which is the [[Neve Shalom]] of the Far-Right wing (by the way wouldn't it be hillarious if the country will decide to give Neve Shalom to the Palestinians in a peace deal?). The residents of Kiryat Arba and Hebron are the fascists of Israel, but they are there, and when the time will come to evacuate them, you won't be able to tell them "it is for peace" or "yeah uh, the Palestinians also made concessions in 1948". You are going to face your (my) own people and fight them. Is an Israeli civil conflict more moral to you than the end of the occupation? Just like what is written in my userpage, I care the most about the right of people to live in dignitiy and bring children, and I should add that I also care about the children, I don't care about morallity or human rights as long as they prevent these two basic functions of human beings. So far the democratic tribalism works and if we (both nations) had different leaders, it might have been better for the Palestinians even without an end to the occupation, at least like it was back in the 70s and early 80s.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 13:40, 30 November 2016 (UTC) ::::Dunam by dunam is the only logic here. In 1878, on the eve of the first pogroms that awoke Zionism, 95% of Palestine was Muslim-Christian. By the time of the Balfour Declaration, Jews were still less than 10%. Technically, the Versailles Treaty and the League of Nations declared Mandatory powers were to oversee those countries until independence was achieved. This was, singularly, to be denied to the Palestinians. By 1947, the Jews were 30-32%, and the Partition Plan gave, uniquely, this 30% sovereignty over 56% of the land, of which they owned a scarce 6% of. It was thoroughly rational for all the Arab countries to reject this Great Power proposal as a form of violent expropriation of rights and territories, and to see it as (a) anti-Semitic (b) colonialist. It was anti-Semitic because, having exterminated 5,3 million Jews, Europe washed its hands of blame, and set up a system incentivating the transfer of its surviving Jews beyond its frontiers, to the Middle East where the notion of genocide, despite all the gung-ho rhetorical manipulations of the historical record, Jews had never suffered the kind of ontological theological odium and social massacres they were exposed to in their Western diaspora (b) demanding that the Palestinians pay the blood price for Western genocide.So in 1948, war broke out between Israel and Palestinians, with a fiction of 5/6 Arab armies invading. Well, the war was just on 2 fronts: Israel no more respected the Partition Plan than did its enemies, though Pasha Glubb fought fundamentally to defend the territory assigned to Palestinians, while Egypt fought from the south. Israel won 78& of the land, and expelled or expedited the ethnic purge of 700,000 Palestinians. 13,000 disappeared, presumed dead in the conflict. In 1967 told by the best informed services in the West that in the eventuality of war, Israel would conquer all fronts within 6-10 days, Israel chose war, and ended up with 100%+the Golan Heights, which was, as we know, more or less the basic game plan, minus Lebanon south of the Litani. The Palestinians are 6 million, the Jews are 6 million. The choice is obvious: one can trash rhetorical feelings of 'guilt' i.e., [[Ari Shavit]]'s 'dark secret at the heart of Zionism' and simply address the simple question. Is it in Israel's long-term interests retain all of the excuses, playing on ambiguities for not acting unilaterally to impose peace by allowing that the country has legally 78% of a land it had no legal title to originally, or is it worth while keeping up the façade of wanting a deal, while nabbing incrementally or strangling most of the 6-million thick 22% where Palestinians live?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:14, 30 November 2016 (UTC) :::::And what if the Jews gave up the vast Negev Desert? David Ben-Gurion was one of the only people who wanted to maintain the Negev, many other Jewish leaders didn't mind that Transjordan will take the Negev despite the fact it was part of the Jewish State, becuase they didn't want to fight Transjordan. If UNSCOP decided to give the Negev Desert to the Palestinians would you be pleased? And what reason would be to respect a partion plan that can't happen? The Arabs refused and declared a war, the Jews didn't have to sit and think "let's do it moral", they had to fight to determine the future. And for as for the Likud trapping the 4~ million Palestinians in the 22%, the credit can go to the Second Intifada.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 17:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::It's not a matter of asking 'the Jews' by which you mean Israel's political parties, to give up any part of Israel, or to rake over the past, esp. when the past is so controversial (you have a weird, to me, understanding of why the Second Intifada broke out - it broke out because the Oslo Accords set 1998 as the date whereby a permanent settlement of outstanding issues was to be resolved based on Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338. Nothing happened. Netanyahu would not budge at the time - he, like his father, never believed in the idea that eretz Israel was negotiable, not an inch. :::::::: It's simply a matter of deciding if appetite to land has a limit. The Palestinians have never had a say in anything in their land since 1917. The British, the French, the US, the Great powers, the Jewish Agency, decide. Palestinians have had to accept what is decided by outsiders. When George Bush was president, I think in 2006, one memoirs recounts that in the White House as some policy initiative for peace was being mulled over, 6 advisors, including Dennis Ross, sat agonizing at the table. All 6 were Jewish - policy was decided without even one outside or independent voice being allowed to give input. They were all, Americans, of course, but the policy reflected the profound attachment to Israel of the advisory body, uncontroverted by any input from the other side. :::::::: The failure to understand why giving immigrants a lockdown on 56% of the land when they owned 6% of it, and were 3/10ths of the population, was unacceptable to Arabs, - it would be unacceptable to any negotiating party in any similar conflict because the minority settlers were given an outsized portion of territory with respect to their numbers- that is the problem. If you had an apartment block, most of which was owned and lived in by your kin, and were told that, by a certain date, they would be renting half of it from the 30% minority, to whom majority title had been handed over by a foreign authority, neither you nor any other rational actor would accept that ''force majeure''. You'd fight, like any reasonable person looking at their interests, to retain the traditional rights of inheritance. The Palestinians weren't trapped by Likud in 22%, they were trapped there in 1967, long before Likud's grip on power. ::::::::You can't have it both ways: be raised on Jewish victim stories of the valiant if doomed struggle by zealots to redeem Judea from Roman imperialism, from 70 down to Bar-Kochba, and then adopt the Roman Imperial perspective in discussing Palestinian resistance today to the loss of their homeland by an imperial, colonial power they regard with some reason as an intruder. You can't be reared on stories of the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem, as a profound historic injury to your ancestors 2,600/2000 years ago, and then find totally beserk the same attitude among Palestinians fearing for the loss of Al-Aqsa. The essence of Zionism is to sustain itself by a myth of a past injury, which is to be redeemed, while denying Palestinians a right to exactly the same order of feelings, a sense of a past and ongoing displacement, dispossession and loss of everything they have had because a superior immigrant power, albeit one now legitimately entrenched in an unalienable part of former Palestinian land, appears to want '''everything''', from East Jerusalem to the waters of the Samarian-Judean hills. ::::::::My mind works by analogy and equality: the whole Palestinian cause against Israel is identical to that of the Jews pitted against the Romans. A Zionist education treats this analogy, precise down to minute details, as a taboo: Bar-Kochba dug tunnels to fight a guerilla war against the Dacian/Greeks/Macedonians etc., who all shared the one identity (Romans) and youth read of the war rooting for the lost cause of the local population (as I did as a boy). Then dropping the history book, they open a page of Ynet, The Times of Israel, and read of a native population of zealots and sicarii, Hamas, digging tunnels against an army constituted by descendents of an aliyah population of Maghrebi, Russians, Ethiopians, Poles, French, Yemenis, etc.etc., and are shocked at the madness and vileness of the indigenes fighting them. 'terrorists!' 'Islamic fanatics'. Well, that's exactly how Roman literature describes participants in the Jewish uprising - murderous, god/Torah-intoxicated religious fanatics. It's crazy. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::::The Palsestinians wanted all of the land, and while they have the right to demand, it is worthless to portray the Palestinians' decision to go to war as a decision followed by discontent by the partition plan's map. No map would keep them content The Palestinians repeated the same rhetoric until the very day of the vote in the UN: "The line of separation will be no other than a line of fire and blood", as said by Jamal Husseini to the Palestine Committee 5 days before the vote. The Arab League also opposed any kind of partition, even a confederation of small cantons. They opposed every compromise, and this approach leads to devastation. The same approach is now used by the Far-Right wing in Israel and so far it led to the assasination of Rabin, the killings of 29 Muslim worshipers and a wave of brainwashed millenials which will receive the right to vote in a few years. On the Palestinian side it led to more campagins against Israel as well as Jordan and Lebanon, all ended in disaster for the Palestinians. The first time the Palestinians faced a real success was when they were willing to compromise, in 1993. :::::::::The Palestinians did not accept the plan not becuase they wanted the colonialists out. The Palestinians didn't accept the plan becuase they wanted to rule and the colonialists were a target. Obviously they weren't expected to accept the Jewish precense, but it is hard to say that until 1947 the Jewish presence was negative. The "Palestinians" in that context are the Arab Higher Committee and the Husseini bloc. They wanted to rule. It is no secret that many Arab men were more indifferent to the partition, prefering to join Transjordan's Arab kingdom, but I am not going to believe that most of the fellaheen cared more than what their leaders could make them. The peasents (I don't know if this word is an insult or not) supported the Islamic leadership of the mufti and followed him because they were simple people, like the voters of [[Shas]], but most of all they cared about their income, which they believed will improve once they will have their own state, as preached to them since the 19th century and the days of WWI and the Great Arab Revolt. The Arab people care first about their families, then their clan/hamula and only then their national or religious affiliation. If the Nashashibis handled the situation, there might"ve been no Nakba and even better, if the Arabs accepted the partition plan, today there was no Jewish state but instead, the Husseinis took the power and started a war, which will turn out is one of the most embarrassing defeats in history, caused mostly by arrogance :::::::::But again, I don't think those analogies, as well as the Bar Kohva one (and as I"ve been told, Bar Kohva is exactly the example of a bigoted idiot who brought devastation on his people) will serve me while dismantling Kiryat Arba. To you it is justice, standing from the side, and I would also want to see justice in many other places in the world, but to me, the dismantlment of Kiryat Arba is not justice, it is to sever the foot while the entire leg is already contaminated and I don't have access to a bondage or antibiotics.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 19:29, 30 November 2016 (UTC) :::::::::::It's pointless. Your ears and eyes are thoroughly drenched in the stories told among Israelis, in Israel. There is nothing above that shows any independent thinking about these historical circumstances. Indeed, I wouldn't expect this to be the case. You said you begin to disagree with yourself, often. I can remember when, two years older than you, according to third parties, I was said to have made a 'dazzling' reply to an American woman, regarding the Middle East, who had criticized the Jews slightly. I spoke at speed for an hour. A friend complimented me. Back in my room, I thought to myself: 'Really. The lady hadn't read Newsweek and Time Magazine recently and I have, and it all sticks in my memory, and I just recited what I'd read, and have impressed bystanders because they hadn't either, didn't realize I was mouthing with accurate recall a series of second hand opinions. But fuck it: I've never been there' (I decided to go that evening) Well, in disagreeing with you, I am disagreeing with myself as I once tended to 'think', at your age. No condescension. And no implication an old man like myself knows better, or that you will change your mind in time. The only advantage I have is a half century of reading, and being able to see, in an argument like this, if my interlocutor has stepped out of the standard paradigm, or not. Stepping out of it can lead in all sorts of directions, and it would be improbable if you ambled, once out of the magic circle of memes, my way. But I do hope that you find your own distinctive voice: it's very hard in any circumstances, esp. in any intense discursive climate. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:49, 30 November 2016 (UTC) {{od}} I am not excited by what you said. I was told that same thing by people on many different subjects, including opposing settlements, religion and consevatism. You don't know what I am told in Israel, a mere 1% of all of our discussion is much more than what the avarage Israeli in my area cares about. An Israeli observing this discussion will say that I stand silence as you bash the natural right of the Jewish people to Israel and Hebron, and that I let you say lies like "the Jews kicked the Arabs and had no right to the land". I was never taught to try and read about the Palestinian narrative and the newspaper I read the most is Ha'aretz, which is also the only newspaper that actually talks about history. In school my final grade in History was 7/10 which is garbage and in the test itself there was only one question out of 16 about the War of Independence. The narrative in Israel is not really taught. Today instead of teaching a narrative, they teach nothing, they want the public to be less connected to the past and remember only what they want them to remember: the Holocuast. None of my peers know about the Second Intifada which they lived through, the Six Day War or the Palestinian Authority. Most of my knowlege was from reading in English rather than in Hebrew and this is how I got to the English Wikipedia, because the Hebrew Wikipedia is uncredible and poor. Recently I started reading books, namely Independence Versus Nakba and The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem (2004) which I am reading right now as well as two unrelated books I plan on reading this after I"ll finish with the Nakba ([[Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind]], you probably read or heard about it, and another book about prehistoric Canaan). But I am not in a position to try and outsmart you with what I read yesterday, I simply respond to your comments with what's on my mind, I am confident enough to do that.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 20:33, 30 November 2016 (UTC) ::You don't have to prove anything to me. You have a fine mind, and an intense curiosity, that was obvious from the beginning. If you want to understand Benny Morris's book the way it is never read, get a very good map, blow it up, and put all the dates of incidents in, with the reference grid the map of Israel as drawn by the Partition Plan. Cheers.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:02, 30 November 2016 (UTC) :::And, exploiting an add break in Denzel Washington's Man on Fire, thanks for ssuggesting I read [[Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind]]. His remarks re agriculture is not dissimilar to a lecture I gave last year.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:52, 30 November 2016 (UTC) == Does any stalker here have unlimited wiki Jstor access == I will need quite a few articles from Jstor if I am to get through the creation of stubs or articles covering all aboriginal groups. I recall wiki gave editors who applied for it unlimited access to Jstor to this end, and would appreciate some indication as to how I can go about getting this material. Thanks [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:12, 9 November 2016 (UTC) :There currently is a waitlist for JSTOR, you can check it out at [[Wikipedia:The_Wikipedia_Library/Databases#General_research]] and selecting JSTOR and inserting your name for approval. If you look at the top of your watchlist, you should see a list of other items that are currently being offered that might work as well. 🔯 [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">🍸[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 20:31, 9 November 2016 (UTC) ::Thanks Sir Joe. I realized this just after making this request and put my name down, as you can now see. Fingers crossed, now that I've pulled mine out to do my own work rather that batten on others' time and energy.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:48, 9 November 2016 (UTC) :::Have you looked into Open Edition? They have social sciences journals available. 🔯 [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">🍸[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 20:49, 9 November 2016 (UTC) ::::Just now, but I really need to focus on anthropology and linguistic specialist journals, and I can't see the major ones listed. I intended to be an anthropologist, but, like my other option, Icelandic, my first university didn't teach it. This is one way of retouching that old interest.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:59, 9 November 2016 (UTC) :::::Same here, if I can go back in time and switch colleges and majors... 🔯 [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">🍸[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 21:04, 9 November 2016 (UTC) :Nishidani, while you're waiting, you can always post a request for specific articles at [[WP:REX]]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 21:39, 9 November 2016 (UTC) ::::Note that one of the advantages of making requests at WP:REX is that you won't be imposing on any individual editor. Anyone who wants to can come along and answer your request there. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 22:47, 9 November 2016 (UTC) :::::That indeed is an excellent suggestion, and staves off the incipient nightmare of guilt about imposing myself on just a few editors. I have an important article by Rodney Needham which looks necessary if I am to do the article stubs on [[Kaantyu people]] and [[Wikmunkan]] I've been thinking about the last week or so. I'll drop a request there now. Thanks. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:52, 9 November 2016 (UTC) ::Happy to ?email? any articles on JSTOR you need, [[User:Maculosae tegmine lyncis|Maculosae tegmine lyncis]] ([[User talk:Maculosae tegmine lyncis|talk]]) 21:46, 9 November 2016 (UTC) ::Feel free to request articles by email. I have immediate access to most of JSTOR and almost-immediate access to the rest. [[User:Zero0000|Zero]]^{<small>[[User_talk:Zero0000|talk]]</small>} 21:51, 9 November 2016 (UTC) :::Thanks indeed, chaps. I'm rather timid about this, because the scale of the project means that I'll be vexatiously voracious or rather exigent. I'll mull this over, and probably start badgering by email tomorrow, on the condition that anyone offering to assist take their time. I'm thinking in terms of a few articles a day for a year, which would be an outrageous burden on your time, so the more people who can assist the better. The condition I will impose on myself to put a measure of restraint on these calls is, to never ask for another article or two until I have paraphrased the contents of any prior one requested thoroughly on the given tribal article. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:59, 9 November 2016 (UTC) ::::If anyone has access to the Worldmark encyclopedia of ethnic groups or similar reference works which might cover the topics, they might be useful as well. I know that a lot of the references they use are in foreign languages, and in a lot of cases there isn't much in English about them, but it might be possible to go to resource exchange and ask for them anyway, maybe putting them on a cloud where someone who can read the language can offer a translation of what it says, [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 18:06, 28 November 2016 (UTC) :::::Also, of course, you yourself could request that database, and any number of others, at [[Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library/Databases]]. I have a feeling with your history you would be approved rather easily. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 23:25, 30 November 2016 (UTC) ::::::There's a huge amount of material available just through Jstor, enough to cover the basics in the 400+articles I hope to set up, and I'd do best to restrict myself to that. Thanks John.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:56, 1 December 2016 (UTC) ::::::Agreed with {{u|John Carter}}, you should easily be able to get access. That said, you're also welcome to email me if you need any articles from JSTOR. [[User:I JethroBT|<b style="font-family:Candara;color:green">I JethroBT</b>]][[User talk:I JethroBT| ^{drop me a line}]] 04:04, 1 December 2016 (UTC) :::::::You're asking for trouble!:) Several Jstor wikipedian accessors have been extremely helpful, and though I've applied for direct access, I'm just dumb enough to screw things up if I were given it - if it involves anything technical. And, I don't trust myself - I'd probably just eviscerate Jstor downloading all day, and use that as an excuse not to get up, off my arse, and actually read up, day by day, on specific tribes. Thanks for the offer, which I'll certainly abuse as moderately as my mania allows! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:56, 1 December 2016 (UTC) ::::::::Right now, Jstor accounts are frozen apparently. I do from previous experience know that HighBeam, which I previously had a one-year free subscription to, includes more or less all the Thomson-Gale reference works, including a lot of sociological and regional ones, and god knows how many additional works, including a large number of magazine and journal articles. Some of the others will have a lot of material available as well. Even if the Jstor accounts are frozen right now, you would probably be able to get a good start on a lot of content on your own through one or more of those other subscriptions. I was surprised with the 30 or 40 works which came up searching for [[Tengri]], on just that single database, for instance. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 16:45, 5 December 2016 (UTC) == Hamas EU discussion == I opened a thread on the NPOV noticeboard to get more feedback re our discussion on the EU litigation content. [[User:Drsmoo|Drsmoo]] ([[User talk:Drsmoo|talk]]) 01:21, 11 November 2016 (UTC) == There's something that might take two hours from your life == [http://bolter21data.blogspot.co.il/ enjoy]. As I said, I really can't do it, due to systemic bias and suspection.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 17:57, 21 December 2016 (UTC) :Do what? No 'suspicion' surrounds your presence here, in any case. You have a strong ''bona fides'' all round, and if you want to do something, I'm sure you're not going to hit a wall of obtuse objections, as opposed to reasoned discussion. Best regards, lad.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:36, 21 December 2016 (UTC) ::*Pakistais attackand Uri —> Pakistanis attacked Uri ::*Pakistanis capture Badgam and serround Srinager's airport. Indians withdraw from Pattan to Shalateng. Gilgit serround Skardu and reach Gurais. —> surround ::*Indians advace to Gurais —> Indians advance to Gurais ::*etc, etc, ::*[[User:Bolter21]]; sorry to say so, but you are even a worse speller than me...[[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 21:45, 21 December 2016 (UTC) :::As a child I thought of writing a history of the world, and got up a notebook and put in all dates of events, and births etc., that came my way. I dropped the habit when a new history teacher came, a Frenchman, who explained in a half hour's lesson the significant economic, social, cultural interconnections linking up everything from the Hanseatic league to the fall of Constantiniple and the Indian spice trade. I.e. facts are meaningless, unless contextualized within the dynamic forces that shape history. (I didn't quite kick the habit. I wrote a book on each element of the Mendeleev table. I learnt several years later, that most kids in the class were better employed learning to wank, which they picked up by figuring out a hint dropped by a priest about never touching velvet in your mother's sewing case. They were illumined, and I?, I was all wrapped up in writing up the history of Alluminium. In other words, Stav, on reading your page I recalled these personal failings from my personal dark ages and the dictum that relieved me later of those obsessions, i.e. Goethe's ''Das Höchste wäre, zu begreifen, daß alles Faktische schon Theorie ist.''[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:55, 21 December 2016 (UTC) ::::::Now, are you trying to make my work here seem useless? Well, I guess you are right, in a way. It still beats knitting, though....(as I'm an old lady... and not a young man....) [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:06, 21 December 2016 (UTC) ::::@Nish: I had some fear you won't understand, though you might've had and I am just a bad reader, but it is a list of all the violent incidents mentioned in Ma'an. I hardly read any of the articles, I only read the titles. I am not being suspected, I suspect instead. I can't trust Ma'an and everytime I try to add something from there I find myself searching for the incident in another source other than Ma'an because I simply can't trust this website. (And I consciously wrote "I can't trust this website" twice"). I have tried though, but I fail to spend less than 10 minutes on every incident (let alone the English barrier). I will just misinclude incidents. ::::@Huldra: That list wasn't intended to be shown to anyone, it is just a timeline of the changes in the map of the 1947 Indo-Pakistani war I was making and never got to finish.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 21:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC) ::::And I don't make lists of history anymore, I make maps out of them. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R94HSAl15yU&t=2s Here's a recent example, try to find a typo here]. And yes, there was the oil crisis and the loss of a thrid of the Israeli airforce and the Egyptians misleading to Syrians and the Soviets by only pushing a few kilometers deep and the Syrians failing at anything and an Israeli guy with a few tanks stopping an entire division of Syrian tanks etc. but that isn't the point, so don't be like my dad, and ask why didn't I write about these.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:05, 21 December 2016 (UTC) :::::[[User:Bolter21]]; you know, in large parts of the world, (including where I live) 18 years old have their thoughts on ''anything''...but war. Yes, those videos are very cleverly done,.....and they make me extremely sad, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:13, 21 December 2016 (UTC) ::::::Looking at wars, either in pictures or in reports makes me feel like visitng the safari. When I am shown videos Syrians in Aleppo, I don't really feel anything. The more upsetting things are Russian and Syrian propagandas denying the pictures. Sure when I see [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AMMYY7kb0c videos of "war" between some soldiers and thieves, and a just rule of law] I feel a pinch due to the nationallity of the people involved but that's just because I am a racist scrub.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 22:21, 21 December 2016 (UTC) ::::::::Plenty of 18-year-olds are involved in warfare throughout the world. It just that conscription is not universal in the West and western militaries have become politicized as fixtures of the right. You cannot have a large standing army in the West or anywhere else without young poorly payed 18-year-old privates. ::::::::Bolter21 I will tell you this. When you join the IDF don’t be too idealistic.[[User:Jonney2000|Jonney2000]] ([[User talk:Jonney2000|talk]]) 00:31, 22 December 2016 (UTC) ::::::::::Could you elaborate? I had to figure out what exactly "idealistic" means (They didn't teach that in school, but at least I can name three reasons to the rise of the Nazis). So from the 4 minutes I invested in reading in my laggy phone, I can say that I am pretty materialistic ever since I learned chemistry in school and started telling people "yo you are just chemical and physical reactions moving atoms and when you eat you just resupply your body with more molecules" (it would sound more complicated if I wanted it to).--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 01:34, 22 December 2016 (UTC) ::Thanks Stav, and sorry for missing what you thought was the main point. I looked at the whole site. You've given me food for thought, and I'll get back chewing over it during my 2 hourly breakfast excursion this morning.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani|talk]]) 08:20, 22 December 2016 (UTC) ::I missed your objective intent, mainly because every day I have to read a few hundred pages of the several thousand downloaded from 19th century books on the Aborigines, of which, when it comes to editing, so far, I have only made [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bininj_Gun-Wok_peoples#cite_note-FOOTNOTESpencer1914290-291-11 one minor footnote]. So I was rather tired. In any case, rather than ferret out your intention, I looked over the whole blog, for the 'style' of thinking. ::You just meant:'I can't handle the Ma'an crap (No objection:It parallels perfectly my own sense for more than a decade that any luminary writing on behalf of Zionism in any number of a dozen news outlets or journals I read, switches off his brain, ratchets down his intelligence by a score or double that of points, and puts his mind into neutral, in order not to be neutral). It's needed for balance. Can't you continue to help out there, rather than, by your disappearance, implicitly delegate the whole work load for both sides to me?' ::Well, I don't have that time any more, or the interest, but the sense of responsibility remains. On the other hand, you are not under an obligation to handle what I neglect or read Ma'an for data. If no one will do that, stiff shit for the Palestinian side. They should learn to look after their interests. I've been thinking I should just get the data downloaded from 'The Protection of Civilians' UN website and gave the overall picture for every two weeks. ::As to the chemical bit, read Turgenev's ''[[Fathers and Sons]]'', which captures beautifully the whole question, as it was in 1861 or so. At 16, I had read it, and was engaged in an intense argument over existentialism with a Catholic lad at his home. After some hours, at lunch, as the conversation persisted between the four schoolmates, the mother, a chemist, chipped in chirpily to her engineer husband (she was a lecturer in chemistry):'It's just their hormones, dear'. it was a classic put-down: ='your effervescent passion for philosophy is just a blind for otherwise unsatisfied adolescent chemical changes in your male bodies.' The obvious riposte:'And your materialistic reductionism, if applied to yourself, is a sign of middle class complacency, and, if you believed it, then you shouldn't have raised your children as Catholics, or go to mass, because doing so is just a form of 'spiritual indoctrination' in the metaphysics of a ghost dance that had exceeded its expired use-by date by at least half a millennium. Your materialism is a token of menopausal changes and mental laziness,' etc., something respect for friends forbade me from saying. (The boy in question ended up a derelict bum, having been starved of affection by his family's technocratic efficiency) ::<blockquote>When I am shown videos (of) Syrians in Aleppo, I don't really feel anything. The more upsetting things are Russian and Syrian propagandas denying the pictures. </blockquote> ::I don't see why you should be insouciant to one, and unhinged by the other. It's a b9it like Gilad Shalit. The world goes mediatically beserk for several years after one Israeli soldier is detained by the other side, hanging 'Save our soldier Ryan' tags on municipal buildings from Rome to New York, with nary a word of 6,000 'enemies' illegally detained by the occupying power he represented. Message: If you are an Israeli, you are significant. If you are a Palestinian, get fucked. ::The world's media is invariably selective when it wants us to weep and have pictures of disaster tug at our heart strings. The repeated and systematic carpet-bombing of Gaza is just Aleppo, reduced to a few weeks or months, every few years. But the presentation emphasizes the necessity of this saturation bombing to allow the only 'civilized state' in the area to protect its citizens, very few of whom ever die, comparatively. For most of the world, the latter is just [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sderot#Sderot_cinema Sderot cinema], whereas with Aleppo, we are asked to turn on the lachrymal passions and spin a pitch for the civilians under ISIS as victims (which they are, of course). Such analogies are never precise, but drawing them does help one detach oneself from the media-induced acquired systole/diastole habit of being outraged by one tragedy, while feeling indifferent about some other. ::My compliments re your precocious mastery of web design. Careful though: images, coloured pulsating ones especially, miss more than they capture, namely the details in Elie Podeh's 'The Jarring Mission and the Sadat Initiative' in his [https://books.google.com/books?id=ecyGCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover new book, pp.102ff., espo.pp.113ff] (None of the detail there is, naturally, included in the [[Yom Kippur War]] article.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:11, 22 December 2016 (UTC) :::I sent you the Ma'an articles because I felt they have to be in the article, but as I said, for me it will be hard to add them, to the point it will take too much time for me to have an interest in continueing. Also the English barrier plays a lot here. I might have good English, but my work speed in English is between 25-50% of the speed I have in Hebrew, and I am already a slow reader, who always relayed on the privilage of time-extention in tests. I think the article should at least be completed, till the end of the year, which is not so far away. :::Gilad Shalit is that one Israeli, Benjamin Netanyahu made me dislike. I don't hate the man, I hate the price they paid for him, to silence the people who synically used him to slam Netanyahu. I have no complaints about the fact there are two bodies of Israeli soldiers in Gaza, I don't expect Netanyahu to spend precious time to try and bring them back (and if it were my relative I might say the opposite), but Israelis do, and Netanyahu will eventually have to shut them up, if they will continue to mention it, especially before elections. :::In Germany some 13(?) people died in the terrorist attack a few days ago, but the only reason I am upset, is becuase I heard an Israeli was killed and her husband is now treated, unconscious in Germany. I think about the family and their Hannukah. If I were a parent, I would probably be upset when I hear about dead children from both sides. One of the things that sadden me the most, is to see videos of Israeli airplanes being shot down, more than anything else. Strange me? :::And your argument about Aleppo being Gaza 2.0, is my argument to people who think we should treat wounded Aleppo Syrians in Israel. "Treat the enemies?!" "Don't make that analogy, the attack on Gaza was justified!", what my co-workers told me today. Only my driving teacher said it right, we shouldn't preventing people "knocking" on our border, asking for medical treatment, but anything beyond, is cheap Israeli propaganda. :::And lastly, my dad has poisoned my head with conspiracy theories about the October War.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 23:36, 22 December 2016 (UTC) ::::There's nothing strange about feeling some greater strength of feeling for news regarding one's compatriots. It's inscribed in all social systems, that you must relate more strongly to your 'family', real or symbolic, than to those outside of the 'fold' or 'pale'. To be 'normal' is to wear one's prejudices, though not 'on the sleeve', for then the tribalism becomes pathological. You get it most intensely in (a) sports generally, esp, football (b)the military, where buddy-consciousness is indoctrinated (c) terror or tragic incidents. In regard to the latter, almost every major terror attack this year has seen an Italian, normally a brilliant post-doctoral expatriate, killed, and, being in Italy it's there names I recall, Valeria Solesin in the [[November 2015 Paris attacks]], Patricia Rizzo in the [[2016 Brussels bombings]] Fabrizia di Lorenzo in the [[2016 Berlin attack]], 6 in the [[2016 Nice attack]], not to speak of the torture and murder by an Egyptian government death squad of [[Murder of Giulio Regeni|Giulio Regeni]]. Fortunately, there has been no national hysteria, despite attempts by the lunatic right, to make ethnic/political capital out of this, and play the xenophobia card to earn a comfortable job in politics. I'm conforted by this,(as I said once - finishing my life in 'diaspora' from the countries I grew up in is a way of being independent of tribalism, i.e. behaving/thinking as one is statistically expected to behave/think) because it represents something I admire in the 'national temper' in my adopted country, though it is a dying code that probably won't survive the political madness on our horizon: I grew up among marginal refugee groups, and the only friendships I made at primary school, by choice, were Italians, Poles, and Dutch kids etc. I just didn't, for a complex set of reasons, have much empathy with my own 'kind'. All tragedies strike me in the same way, and I think I have slowly extinguished the Pavlovian reflexes that make me react to them by looking at the specific ethnic identity caught up in them. My wife just notified me that the Berlin murderer Anis Amro has been shot dead in Milan. All she said was:'pauvre fils' (povero figlio/poor kid). She was genuinely upset at his death, despite him being a mass murderer. I looked at the bulletins, and noted that, as soon as he was downed, the policeman who shot him (his mate had been wounded in the shoulder) tried a heart massage on the terrorist to keep him alive until an ambulance could get there (not the sort of thing one sees reviewing the Hebron videos, or in most other countries). This is a fucked up country, but such things make it more livable to me than being in a modern efficient state. ::::You shouldn't hate Shalid for the use his situation was put in politics. That wasn't his fault. I'l l try and catch up on the backlog on that article. You're quite right. What was begun should be finished. Best regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:14, 23 December 2016 (UTC) ==Yo Ho Ho== <div style="border-style:solid; border-color:blue; background-color:AliceBlue; border-width:1px; text-align:left; padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">[[File:Garrick's Temple to Shakespeare 20.JPG|250x100px|right]] [[File:Ananuri in Jan 2013 02.jpg||150x100px|left]] [[User:Doug Weller|<span style="color:#070">Doug Weller</span>]] [[User talk:Doug Weller|talk]] is wishing you [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|Seasons Greetings]]! Whether you celebrate your hemisphere's [[Solstice]] or [[Christmas]], [[Diwali]], [[Hogmanay]], [[Hanukkah]], [[Lenaia]], [[Festivus]] or even the [[Saturnalia]], this is a special time of year for almost everyone! <br /> <small>Spread the holiday cheer by adding {{[[WP:SUBST|subst]]:[[User:WereSpielChequers/Dec16a]]}} to your friends' talk pages</small>. {{clear}} </div> == Ukrainian Jewish PM == Just letting you know you violated ARBPIA DS by restoring without consensus that the Ukrainian PM was Jewish. Please self-revert and discuss on the talk page. 🔯 [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">🍸[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 15:31, 29 December 2016 (UTC) == ''Editor of the Week'' seeking nominations (and a new facilitator) == The ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week|Editor of the Week]]'' initiative has been recognizing editors since 2013 for their hard work and dedication. Editing Wikipedia can be disheartening and tedious at times; the weekly ''Editor of the Week'' award lets its recipients know that their positive behaviour and collaborative spirit is appreciated. The [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Recipient response|response from the honorees]] has been enthusiastic and thankful. The list of nominees is running short, and so new nominations are needed for consideration. Have you come across someone in your editing circle who deserves a pat on the back for improving article prose regularly, making it easier to understand? Or perhaps someone has stepped in to mediate a contentious dispute, and did an excellent job. Do you know someone who hasn't received many accolades and is deserving of greater renown? Is there an editor who does lots of little tasks well, such as cleaning up citations? Please help us thank editors who display sustained patterns of excellence, working tirelessly in the background out of the spotlight, by [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Editor of the Week/Nominations|submitting your nomination for ''Editor of the Week'']] today! <small>In addition, the WikiProject is seeking a new facilitator/coordinator to handle the logistics of the award. Please contact {{noping|L235}} if you are interested in helping with the logistics of running the award in any capacity. Remove your name from [[User:Buster7/WER Nomination mass mailing|here]] to unsubscribe from further EotW-related messages. </small> Thanks, '''[[User:L235|Kevin]]''' (<small>aka</small> [[User:L235|L235]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[User talk:L235#top|t]]&nbsp;'''·'''&#32; [[Special:Contribs/L235|c]]) via [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 05:19, 30 December 2016 (UTC) <!-- Message sent by User:L235@enwiki using the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Buster7/WER_Nomination_mass_mailing&oldid=721303386 --> == [[Occupied Palestine Resolution|newish article]] == Could use a hand like yours.[[User:TracyMcClark|--TMCk]] ([[User talk:TracyMcClark|talk]]) 22:07, 1 January 2017 (UTC) :Sorry. Hospitalized for kidney stones. Can't edit for some days, perhaps weeks. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:12, 5 January 2017 (UTC) ::Yuck. That's painful. Good luck and best wishes then.[[User:TracyMcClark|--TMCk]] ([[User talk:TracyMcClark|talk]]) 22:04, 5 January 2017 (UTC) ::Oh gosh, poor Nishidani. Happened to me about 20-something years ago, in Scotland. The most excruciating pain I have ever experienced, much, much worse than the worst toothache. Fortunately over with in a few days (it was only a small stone, but big enough to make its presence felt). May have been caused by letting myself get dehydrated on long (several weeks at a time) cycle tours in (very hot) Spain. I read somewhere that drinking plenty of milk can help avoid them. Seems to have worked, as the problem has not recurred. Best wishes, [[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 09:34, 6 January 2017 (UTC) :::Doctors have told me I have a high tolerance of pain. I allow dentists to do dental work on me without an anaesthetic, etc. but, damn it, you're right. This kind of pain's in a different league. The remedy is 2 litres of water a day - imbibing the most tedious liquid on earth for a week or so, and if that doesn't work, surgery. Thanks N.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:23, 6 January 2017 (UTC) ::::Appalling news, my sympathy. However, there are many interesting stories, which I'm sure you know, involving people urinating while standing on their head (upside-down). That was in the days when surgery involved butchers with infectious knives. This might be good time to recycle the adage ''may all your problems be little ones''. [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 11:02, 6 January 2017 (UTC) ::::(edit conflict) Hmm, 2litres/day doesn't sound like enough to me. And if you're drinking that much fluid, it should be [[tonicity#isotonicity|isotonic]], or you can add some electrolytes to the water. I'd recommend alcohol-free beer as a good isotonic drink (well, anything's better than water). Maybe see what the docs think. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 11:08, 6 January 2017 (UTC) ::::[https://translate.google.com/?hl=iw#auto/en/%D7%94%D7%97%D7%9C%D7%9E%D7%94%20%D7%9E%D7%94%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%94 Hchlama Mehira]--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 01:34, 7 January 2017 (UTC) :::::The big day. A visit to the specialist, . .who has fallen sick himself and cancelled all appointments! Thanks for the kind sentiments and suggestions. Why urinate standing upside down? Johnuniq? That comparatively easy, compared to drinking a glass of wine upside down (which in the long run probably explains some of these later run-ins with kidney pains!)[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:35, 9 January 2017 (UTC) ::::::Apparently the hope is that by standing upside down, gravity will move stones away from the entrance to the urethra before attempting to urinate. "{{tq|Benjamin Franklin, as usual, outdid everyone. When stones blocked his urethral opening, he dislodged them by standing on his head and urinating upside down.}}" [https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18024246-300-hens-eggs-and-snail-shells/] Good luck! [[User:Johnuniq|Johnuniq]] ([[User talk:Johnuniq|talk]]) 04:42, 10 January 2017 (UTC) :::::::That's an odd way to interpret the laws of gravity. I've drunk beer and claret upside down for half a century on request (by folks who've heard the usual rumours) and the grog goes north, as, my head on the floor, I use one hand to pour the stuff into my mouth, from where it travels in the proper direction irrespective of physics, i.e. towards my stomach a foot further up in the direction of the ceiling.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:24, 10 January 2017 (UTC) == Warning on Personal Attacks == Consider this a warning to cease your personal attacks. Calling someone "foggybrained" and telling someone that they are unable to comprehend things certainly approach a personal attack if not violate it. I have had it with your attitude that you are the arbiter of what is correct and everyone else is merely a stupid person you graciously allow to edit Wikipedia. You need to stop being condescending to everyone and strive to edit in a fair and collaborative way. In addition, I do want to point out that your user page violates [[WP:POLEMIC]] and should be removed. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 20:50, 6 January 2017 (UTC) :oyf tsu shraybn geshikhte darf men hobn a kop un nisht keyn tukhes.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:29, 9 January 2017 (UTC) ::Writing a personal attack in a foreign language is still a personal attack. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 14:34, 9 January 2017 (UTC) :::Your idiosyncratic views on what violates WP:POLEMIC have been [[Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Nableezy|tested before]]. Your attitude that you are the arbiter of what violates WP:POLEMIC and that everyone else is merely a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer you graciously allow to edit Wikipedia is thankfully not one that carries any weight here. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 16:09, 9 January 2017 (UTC)</small> ::::I understand your viewpoint, but Wikipedia does not allow pages and pages as Nishidani has on his userspace. I don't understand how you can't see that it violates polemic. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 16:34, 9 January 2017 (UTC) :::::Nope. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 17:55, 9 January 2017 (UTC)</small> ::If I noted for the record what I often observe, and complained before arbs, you wouldn't be here. You regularly turn up on obscure pages I edit and revert me, when I am merely maintaining order by reverting some IP, who removed stuff without a valid policy ground or talk page appearance. You do this regularly after 'losing' an argument on a talk page. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sippenhaft&diff=next&oldid=759114766 you did it today.] It is patently an attempt to 'get back' at an editor. It is infantile,beyond the obvious desire to be vexatious. Piss off, kindly. There is nothing offensive about my remark in yiddish. It's sound common sense, and if you can manage to understand try and take the advice proferred. If people ask me questions on this page, relevant to what Id do here, I answer them. Polemic has nothing to do with it. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:39, 9 January 2017 (UTC) :::Your userpage is polemic. Read up on what the policy is. I don't need to continue this. I warned you about attacking people and that is all. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 16:43, 9 January 2017 (UTC) :::::Nope. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 17:55, 9 January 2017 (UTC)</small> ::::::To quote [[User:Kudpung]], "....So without beating about the bush, what I do expect however is for them both to put <nowiki>{{Db-u1}} </nowiki> on their user pages at User:No More Mr Nice Guy/Quotes and Stuff and User:Nishidani very quickly - and I mean delete, not just selectively removing contetious material, otherwise I'll delete the pages myself per POLEMIC. They only exist in order to incite something and have no usefulness towards the building of this encyclopedia or the friendly collaboration of its editors." from: [[Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive887#Advice_requested]] [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 19:16, 9 January 2017 (UTC) :::::::And on 11:51, 31 May 2015 the page was deleted as per that conversation, and Nishidani promptly recreated the page with all the polemics still intact. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 19:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC) ::::::::As is often the case, you do not know what you are talking about. You have no idea what was on Nishidani's page at the time of that comment (quotes from other users saying things that could be taken badly for example, and not simply quotes from published authors). And you have yet to give a single example of polemical content on it now. You disliking something does not make it "polemical". You pulled this same stupid shit with me. Boo hoo, somebody thinks something that I dont like. Grow up. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 20:20, 9 January 2017 (UTC)</small> :::::::::Nishidani's userpage is polemical. It does nothing to help Wikipedia, and is there merely to be pointy, to use a Wiki term. I am sorry that I think a Hezbollah userbox has no place on Wikipedia, I guess that is why I think driving a truck into a crowd of people doesn't deserve praise or having sweets handed out. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 20:22, 9 January 2017 (UTC) ::::::::::Ohhh, argument by assertion I see. Another fine example Sir Joseph, well done, well done. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User talk:Nableezy|<font color="#C11B17">nableezy</font>]]''' - 20:24, 9 January 2017 (UTC)</small> ::::::::::(e-c) It is open to question whether much of the material on most any editor's user page or in user space really helps the encyclopedia. And I have seen repeated comments from admins regarding comments made by editors who are subject to various sorts of topic bans that limited discussion in violation of the ban in user space might be overlooked. Most of the time, I have seen those comments from admins after having raised questions about those comments to them myself. I regret to say that engaging in what some others might see as being perhaps a tendentious form of discussion, possibly verging on harassment, in user space may well not win any friends either. I think the matter of Nishidani's user talk page has already been raised in the MfD discussion on it, and it was allowed to stay. That being the case, I think the only places where this sort of discussion is really appropriate is either at ANI or before ArbCom, although, like I said, based on what I've seen before regarding other editor's userspace comments, I wouldn't expect much at either location. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 20:30, 9 January 2017 (UTC) {{od}} Just for the record, it is my understanding that the MFD was on his talk page, not his user page. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 20:34, 9 January 2017 (UTC) :It was, but I don't know of anywhere in policy or guidelines where user space pages are differentiated, so it seems to me to be a case of a difference which makes no difference being no difference. [[User:John Carter|John Carter]] ([[User talk:John Carter|talk]]) 20:38, 9 January 2017 (UTC) ::This is nonsensical. On the page dismissed as a violation of WP:Polemic, we have a number of quotes like the following: ::欲以存亡繼絕, (淮南子, 卷二十一 要略 7a.) ::That, Sir Joe, is from the [[Huainanzi]] where of [[Duke Huan of Qi]] it is said: ::<blockquote>He wanted to maintain alive the moribund, and conserve whatever teetered on the verge of extinction.</blockquote> ::If you like, when I edit pages on Tibetans, Aboriginal peoples, Palestinians etc., I am mindful of Duke Huán's exemplary precedent. ::Again, I can't expect you to know what: ::<blockquote>ἄγνοια γὰρ ἡ μὲν τῶν ἰσχυρῶν ἐχθρά τε καὶ αἰσχρά— βλαβερὰ γὰρ καὶ τοῖς πέλας αὐτή τε καὶ ὅσαι εἰκόνες αὐτῆς εἰσιν—(Φίληβος,49ξ)</blockquote> ::means, but I have a right to expect that readers who don't know what on earth this is saying refrain from spluttering words like 'polemic' while calling for it to be removed. For it simply states: ::<blockquote>self-ignorance accompanied by strength is not just disgraceful, it’s dangerous too:anyone who comes into contact with it, or anything like it, is threatened (tr. Robin Waterfield)</blockquote> ::That can hardly apply to the issue of Israeli settlements. [[Theodor Meron]] immediately informed the Israeli government in 1967 that settlement in the belligerently occupied territories was out of the question: the law was explicit, any such settlement would contravene the Fourth Geneva Convention. A year later [[Moshe Dayan]] went ahead, admitting that,'settling Israelis in administered territory, as is known, contravenes international conventions, but there is nothing essentially new about that.' In other words, the Philebus is speaking about self-ignorance whereas the Israeli settlement project is consciously furthered in full lucid awareness that it is a 'flagrant violation' of Israel's legal obligations under international law. ::Editing this area is very hard because the facts, the legal reality and the history are established, known, by everyone who reads beyond the tabloids or listens to more than soundbites. A huge paperwork tsunami nonetheless arose to split hairs, cavil, equivocate, throw sand in the eyes, blindside the critics, and puzzle the public. You can only get away with something of this order if you sow confusion, and most of our articles are minutely attentive to the pharisaical hasbara churned out to justify up front what is known to be carpetbagging behind doors. All over wiki I/P articles the pretense is maintained that there is some margin for disagreement, that interpretations of the one reality differ, that there are two POVs- Israel's ueberexceptionalist theory, vs the consensual opinion of every juridical body that has competence in international law - rather than a juxtaposition of the ascertained, universally endorsed legal situation as opposed to a nationalist fringe theory pushed wittingly by an occupying power intent on destroying the nation it occupies. I wouldn't therefore complain, Sir Joe. I don't raise a fuss at the structural distortions in so many of these articles: the weight of numbers determines content. I simply strive to clarify what is consistently, from ignorance or ideology or national interests, glossed over. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:27, 10 January 2017 (UTC) If anyone have anything against some user, go to the appropirate noticeboard and take action. If you are not confident enough to do that, there is no point in exchanging accusations here.--[[User:Bolter21|'''Bolter21''']] <small>''([[User talk:Bolter21|talk to me]])''</small> 15:58, 10 January 2017 (UTC) == Coatrack article with gross WEIGHT and NPOV problems? == [[Nadia Abu El Haj]] Hey. You're more familiar with the topic than I so I figured I should ask your advice. I frankly was tempted to blank the entire latter half of the article, which is completely bizarre and unlike anything I've seen in our articles on other academics. I understand that some people have controversial political views, but I actually came across the page through [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Evidence-based]], which was apparently a massive problem back in 07/08 with a sock-farm creating bogus coatrack articles on pro-Palestinian activists (along with at least one very poorly written article on a Hebrew Bible scholar who I've never heard of specifically being either pro- or anti-Palestinian, which is how I came across it). [[User:Hijiri88|Hijiri 88]] (<small>[[User talk:Hijiri88|聖]][[Special:Contributions/Hijiri88|やや]]</small>) 14:56, 14 January 2017 (UTC) ::It's [[WP:Undue]] probably, but shouldn't be removed, so much as pared down. A line or two for each critic or supporter. The only serious opinion there is Dever's. It's standard for anyone in this field to be targeted. I have a list at last check of about 42 academics of distinction who have been threatened with job loss etc for criticizing Israel's colonial policies. I've tried to balance that by opening a counter list for academic supporters of the Dershowitz brand who suffer similar career obstacles -it's still empty. If you are in the West Bank they shoot you, if you are in the West, they smear you. Any number of numbskulls are eager to pitch in. '''But''', if you can't stand the fire in the kitchen, . . . In short, just trim it, making everyone's comments as succinct as that of Dever's. Secondly, this loudmouthed shouting in newspapers is unencyclopedic, but one can't erase it until it's replaceable with quality, focused criticism and you get that, iIf you have access to Jstor, by just looking at all the reviews of her works in the major academic journals. If you can get several reviews of each book, balanced for criticism pro and con, then under those circumstances you can chuck out the pseud's corner stuff.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:15, 14 January 2017 (UTC) == I see what you mean == [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism&diff=760452167&oldid=760451956] If this is the level of IDHT one normally expects to encounter, I can see why you'd warn me away from IP. I just happened across a thread on WT:JEW immediately above one I had opened and gave the obvious response that was obvious, and as a result I have had to explain that ARBPIA3 applies to that Arab-Israeli conflict, not just "IP articles", three times and counting. What a mess. [[User:Hijiri88|Hijiri 88]] (<small>[[User talk:Hijiri88|聖]][[Special:Contributions/Hijiri88|やや]]</small>) 02:26, 17 January 2017 (UTC) :Again, you seem to be the one not hearing things. An article on Arabic Jews is not by itself part of the IP Conflict. Can some edits on that page be subject to sanctions, perhaps. But it is stupid to put entire pages under sanction. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 02:43, 17 January 2017 (UTC) ::Firstly, I must apologize to Nishidani for continuing this discussion on his talk page. I had no idea SJ was watching. ::Second, it is not "an article [that is] by itself part of the IP Conflict" that is subject to the ARBPIA3 General Prohibition. It is all pages that could be reasonably taken as being related to the Arab-Israeli conflict. An IP who adds text about Jews being expelled from Arab states as a result of the Arab-Israeli conflict is ''always'' violating this prohibition, regardless of whether you think the page itself should be placed under extended protection. ::[[User:Hijiri88|Hijiri 88]] (<small>[[User talk:Hijiri88|聖]][[Special:Contributions/Hijiri88|やや]]</small>) 02:50, 17 January 2017 (UTC) :::IP Conflict is Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the page is not about the IP conflict, whether or not some edits can be construed as being part of the conflict. We should not be in the habit of locking off articles on the off chance there will be a dispute. [[User:Sir Joseph|Sir Joseph]] ^{<font color="Green">[[User_talk:Sir Joseph|(talk)]]</font>} 02:52, 17 January 2017 (UTC) ::::For the umpteenth time, the ArbCom restriction is on articles related to the ''Arab-Israeli'' conlict, ''not'' just the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I am not a fan of "locking off articles" myself, but ArbCom already did lock off that article back in 2015, and the specific IP edit you wanted to allow was itself an explicit violation of the restriction as it was about the Arab-Israeli conflict. If you want the page to be unlocked, you need to appeal the general prohibition, or request that it be amended to more narrowly address only specifically IP conflict articles. [[User:Hijiri88|Hijiri 88]] (<small>[[User talk:Hijiri88|聖]][[Special:Contributions/Hijiri88|やや]]</small>) 04:24, 17 January 2017 (UTC) == Just a notice, not sure if you ever got this == {{Ivm|2=''This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does '''not''' imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.'' 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