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20:21, 15 July 2014: Bbb23 (talk | contribs) triggered filter 602, performing the action "edit" on User talk:Nishidani. Actions taken: Warn; Filter description: Arbitration contentious topics alerts (examine)

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Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring]] regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit warring]][[User:Tritomex|Tritomex]] ([[User talk:Tritomex|talk]]) 11:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring]] regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit warring]][[User:Tritomex|Tritomex]] ([[User talk:Tritomex|talk]]) 11:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

== Notice of [[WP:ARBPIA]] ==

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'{{pp-vandalism|expiry=21 July 2014|small=yes}} {{oldmfdfull|date=October 9, 2010|result=keep|votepage=User talk:Nishidani}} {{retired|emeritus editor}} {{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=./Index|mask=/Archive <#>|leading_zeros=0|indexhere=yes|template=User:Nishidani/archive indexing format}} {{archives|search=yes|index=/Index}} {{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}} |maxarchivesize = 250K |counter = 17 |minthreadsleft = 20 |minthreadstoarchive = 2 |algo = old(180d) |archive = User talk:Nishidani/Archive %(counter)d }} {{bots|deny=DPL bot}} {{NoBracketBot}} =='''The West Bank/Judea and Samaria Problem''' == {{User:Nishidani/JS}} == [[Leonardo Sciascia|A futura memoria (se la memoria ha un futuro)]] == [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Yambaram:Incivility.2C_slurs_and_accusations_of_antisemitism User:Yambaram:Incivility, slurs and accusations of antisemitism] All that was asked, was answered, fairly, simply and neatly.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:35, 18 January 2014 (UTC) :It's nice to see things work right over there for once. It didn't look like it was trending that way. I'm sorry you had to go through it. It reminded me of this by Emily: ::To fight aloud is very brave, ::But gallanter, I know, ::Who charge within the bosom, ::The cavalry of woe. ::Who win, and nations do not see, ::Who fall, and none observe, ::Whose dying eyes no country ::Regards with patriot love. &mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 15:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Alf. Wow! Just in 'Patriot love' alone, the sinister use of amphibology to promote a popular conceit only to mock it to bits by making the word it defines, patriotism's antithesis 'love', show the vacuity of the epithet, is magnificent. It effortlessly synthesizes [[Elegy in a Country Churchyard]], while going beyond its paternalistic sentimentalism. Because it made me think of a rush of things, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Habit_of_Perfection ''The Habit of Perfection'']'s second stanza, Tennyson's [[The Charge of the Light Brigade]] (to which also it must be a conscious and sharp riposte) Horace's cant of [[Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori|''dulcet decorest . .'']] which [[Wilfred Owen]] so savagely and briliantly lampooned, and both Rimbaud's [[fr:wiki|Le dormeur du val]] and Lermontov's [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=WnqzRcx0OZ4C&pg=PA205 Valerik],([[Valerik (poem)|''Val'' in Valerik]] anticipating uncannily ''val'' in Rimbaud (doesn't appear to be translated but there's a description [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=ey_OhnEBOzgC&pg=PA100 here]), wih further analogies even down to the eyes of the dying soldier) which of course reminded me I should do more edits to [[Imam Shamil]]. A very good afternoon: decent closure to a smear campaign, a long conversation with a mystic, and your clever use of a poem I don't remember to cap things with a subtle message while offering a gift of poetic genius. Even the [[Knödel|canederli]] whose scent is now wafting up into the study from the hearth will take a back seat to evening thoughts of E.D. Thanks indeed.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:38, 18 January 2014 (UTC) ==Hello== Hello, I'm Anup. I was just moving by recent changes. Thought I would leave you a msg requesting you to remove <nowiki>{{retired|emeritus editor}}</nowiki> template from your talk page. Welcome back to Wikipedia. Cheers! [[User:Anupmehra|<font color="red">Anup</font>]][[User talk:Anupmehra|<font color="saffron">Mehra</font>]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Anupmehra|✈]]</sup> 11:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC) ::The second sentence is ungrammatical. I do not know what 'msg' refers to. Emeritus means retired but still active. So your request is pointless and I'm sorry but I must disoblige you. It's my page, and you should worry about its innocuousness.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:16, 27 January 2014 (UTC) == Question == Nishidani, on the Talk-page of the [[Gospel of Matthew]] you wrote: "...the importance for some Church theologians of establishing a Hebrew precedence in an environment where both Jewish and Christians competed for converts vigorously, '''where rabbinic hostility to Yeshua''' and ecclesiastical suppression of variant traditions '''deleted much of the then available evidence'''." Can you recite any historical documents attesting to this fact? It seems more likely to me that the passages quoted by Jerome, Eusebius, Origen, Irenaeus and Epiphanius from the original Gospel of Matthew (which was written in the Aramaic language and in Hebrew characters), and which Jerome had seen in the Library of Caesarea, is proof that the original text was not tampered with. It simply did not contain the genealogical record that now appears in the canonical text of Matthew (a later interpolation). Some think that these contradictory genealogical records in Matthew and Luke were added in order to counter the claim that Jesus may have been born of illegitimate birth. '''According to Epiphanius''' (''Anacephalaiosis'' 13.1): "The beginning of the Gospel among them reads: ''It happened in the days of Herod the king of Judea (at a time when Caiaphas was high priest) that a certain John came, baptizing the baptism of conversion in the river Jordan. Of him it is said that he was from the family of Aaron the priest, the son of Zacharias and Elisabeth. And all went out to him. […] It happened that John baptized and the Pharisees went out to him and were baptized and all Jerusalem. And John was dressed in a mantle of camel's hair and a leather belt was round his waist. And his food was, it is said, wild honey, of which the taste was that of manna, like cakes in olive oil''.” It is worthy to note that the style of this original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew was similar in style to an earlier MS, ''viz''., the Aramaic '''''Scroll of Antiochus''''', whose introduction is strikingly similar to the Aramaic Gospel of Matthew, as if Matthew tried to emulate the style of the former.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 12:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ::David, the above is massively confused, if only because in English you are saying that Jerome, Eusebius, Origen, Irenaeus and Epiphanius quoted from the original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew. They didn't. ::Consulting primary texts is important. But we can only do so through secondary sources, since primary sources have all sorts of disputes surrounding them. You are careless in your use of both primary and secondary sources: the Anacephalaiosis is a recapitulation of Epiphanius's ''Panarion'', itself a very confusing source, and is not by Epiphanius. ::'the style of this original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew'. How did you get to that conclusion? If we lack the 'original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew' how can we say what style it was written in? See? ::All ancient Christian testimonies agree that Yeshua died and was resurrected. That doesn't make it a fact. Many of the foundational stories in Genesis come from Ugaritic and Akkadian fairy-tales. That doesn't mean that the authors were ''translating'' from the originals in those languages. These methodological considerations are very elementary, and I can see no sign of a sensitivity to them. Antiquity was mainly an oral-transmission world, based also on rote memorization which, in bilingual speakers meant the tales were rewoven according to the audience's primary language. I don't care one way another about this. It is all speculative and unverifiable except if a rubbish dump in Egypt throws up evidence. The only thing that is important is to get secondary RS materials properly marshalled and paraphrased. ::The ''facts'' I refer to and which you quote are common in the secondary historical literature. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:26, 13 February 2014 (UTC) :::Nishidani, you asked me: "How did you get to that conclusion [about its style]? If we lack the 'original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew' how can we say what style it was written in?" The answer is quite simple, Nishidani. I study Talmud (both, the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmud), which texts are written in Aramaic, just as Jews have always written their religious works and novellae. The Palestinian Talmud is written in the dialect spoken by Jesus and it is, therefore, quite easy to reconstruct the original text of the Hebrew/Aramaic Gospel of Matthew based on Epiphanius' record in Greek. I have made a preliminary translation back into the spoken Aramaic of the time, and, surprisingly, it is strikingly similar to the Aramaic "'''Scroll of Antiochus'''" which I also have in my private library. The "Scroll of Antiochus" begins in this way: "It happened in the days of Antiochus, the king of Grecia, a king who was great and strong and potent in his dominion, and to whom all kings gave homage, etc." The words in Judeo-Aramaic are: והוה ביומי אנטיוכס מלכא דיון, מלך רב ותקיף הוה וחסין בשלטנותיה וכל מלכיא ישתמעון ליה. You see, in the original Aramaic of the Gospel of Matthew (as quoted by Epiphanius ibid.) the wording would have been quite similar: והוה ביומי הורדוס מלכא דיהוד , etc. :::As for your reluctance to rely principally upon primary sources, I can understand that. Still, because of the vast opinions in contemporary literature regarding this subject - often divergent one from the other, it is always a good idea to bear in mind the primary sources upon whose axis our entire debate hinges. For example: Jerome wrote (''Dialogus adversus Pelagianos'', in: Migne, Patr. Lat. 23, Parisiis 1883, III, 2): "In the Gospel 'According to the Hebrews,' '''which was written in the Chaldaic and Syriac language but with Hebrew letters, and is used up to the present day by the Nazoraeans, I mean that according to the Apostles, or, as many maintain, according to Matthew''', which Gospel is also available in the Library of Caesarea, the story runs: 'See, the mother of the Lord and his brother said to him: John the Baptist baptizes for the remission of sins, let us go to be baptized by him, etc." :::Likewise did Jerome write elsewhere: "'''Matthew, also called Levi, an apostle after having been a publican, was the first to compose a gospel of Christ in Judea in Hebrew letters''' and words for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed. '''But who afterwards translated it into Greek is not sufficiently certain'''. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilius the martyr so diligently collected." - Jerome (''On Illustrious Men'').[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 19:59, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ::::'The answer is quite simple, Nishidani. I study Talmud' ::::I might answer that my first degree was in classical Greek, of which the koine is a very simple dialect. One thing one learns in mastering a classical language is that sources are often garbled. Almost all classical sources save one (Dionysius of Halicarnassus) say that the Etruscans emigrated from southwestern Asia Minor. The majority of scholars subscribe to the theory of autochthony. Go figure. Several hundred scholars with a command of Aramaic and Greek disagree with you.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC) :::::I will be willing to challenge any scholar in a debate on these ancient texts, and I am quite confident that I could win such a debate. I have already noticed countless errors with so-called "scholarship." Some try to use a Syriac-dialect to reconstruct the original Aramaic Gospel, but their dialect is NOT the same as Jewish Aramaic of the 1st century CE. Even Babylonian Aramaic differs from Palestinian Aramaic! Ask any Jewish scholar who has studied the Talmud in Israel for more than thirty years. Also, Jews have preserved written records dating back to thousands of years, similar to the Greeks in that regard. The difference, however, being that Jews are more scrupulous in what concerns the accurate rendition and copying of ancient texts. I know because I also worked in Jerusalem as a scribe.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 23:43, 13 February 2014 (UTC) The problem is not to convince oneself, most of us have that fateful flaw in our characters: the problem is to convince one's peers that 'everyone is out of step but me, Johnny', to adopt my mother's ancient admonition for eccentric ideas. Pilpul's methods, however intricate, are generally not those of [[historical criticism]] and [[textual analysis]]. Formal source analysis is what you lack: I can see it in the way you marshal evidence. *'The Palestinian Talmud is written in the dialect spoken by Jesus' (actually it is written in Late Western Aramaic (i.e. post 200 CE, which has three varieties Jewish Palestinian, Christian Palestinian and Samaritan Palestinian dialects). I am very familiar with two dialects with a written history, and each of them has changed drastically over 200 years. ::Having studied the Aramaic of the Palestinian Talmud, it is quite conclusive that the style and dialect were common in Galilee in the 1st century CE. The shortening of proper names (e.g. Yuda instead of Yehudah, Yashua instead of Yehoshua, etc.) are just a few examples of this. The Aramaic in Israel may have also been used by Samaritans and Christians, but this is irrelevant, since the surviving Aramaic texts of the Palestinian Talmud are all quintessential Jewish modes of speech in the Land of Israel at that time.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 17:06, 15 February 2014 (UTC) *Jerome write elsewhere: "'''Matthew, also called Levi, an apostle after having been a publican, was the first to compose a gospel of Christ in Judea in Hebrew letters''' :I.e.,Jerome thinks the Gospel of Matthew was written by a direct disciple who knew Jesus, a provincial tax-collector who must have been born around I-2 CE, who set down his impressions in Aramaic sometime after 33CE. It follows that Matthew is the first gospel: that Mark, whom the same Papias identifies as Peter's interpreter, and hence a Greek-speaking intimate of the first apostle, didn't influence Matthew, but Matthew Mark, though every indication tells us the contrary is '''probably''' the case (the nativity stories arose after Mark, probably in response to Jewish criticisms that Yehoshua could not be the messiah because his birth data as a Nazarene were not consonant with biblical prophecies about the Davidic line, hence the 'trip to Bethlehem', etc); that typical phrases like ἕως τῆς σήμερον at Matt:27:8 and elsewhere, suggest strongly several decades had passed from the time of Yehoshua to Matthew's writing; That therefore characteristic stock phrases typical of Matthew's style, though identical to those favoured by [[Johanan ben Zakai|Joachanan ben Zakai who would have been 3 years old at the traditional date for Yehoshua's death]], for one, who would customarily use them after 70 CE are either coincidences or signs that JbZ picked them up from Matthew, rather than a Matthew writing in the 70s and 80s picked them up from JbZ, i.e. like that from Hosea 6:6 כִּ֛יחֶ֥סֶדחָפַ֖צְתִּיוְלֹא־זָ֑בַח = Ἔλεος θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν Matt.9:13;12:7 . One could multiply like a tumbling block of domino pieces sprawling for miles the problematical consequences for the thesis you push, a thesis based on an ignorance, friend, of the standard techniques of source criticism developed over the last 200 years. Accumulation of memes, of repeated statements with their variations in ancient texts, does not constitute an argument, as you and Ret.Prof think. It is only evidence for a failure to understand the methodology of modern scholarship. :For thousands of years everything agreed [[Homer]] wrote the Iliad and Odyssey. All primary sources said so. The thesis crumbled when formal analysis showed there was no such single author behind the text. [[August Fick]] was convinced Homer as we have it went back to a core in the [[Aeolic dialect]], and recomposed it according to that dialect. No one was convinced he'd got to the 'real' Homer, any more than Matthew was necessarily a single author as opposed to the final editor of a text part of whose logia or sayings were later said to have been collected by a certain Matthew. What you are doing is ''Fisking'' wikipedia, which is forbidden. Publish your results in a reliable academic press, and you may just get past the rules. Good luck! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:28, 14 February 2014 (UTC) == Thank == you! But [[User:Shirt58/Historical and alternative views of Gospel of Matthew|some people]] don't think so. I'll be so bold as to predict the outcome of that matter will be: "We told you so". --[[User:Shirt58|Shirt58]] ([[User talk:Shirt58|talk]]) 13:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ==Hi== Greetings, does your (wide) field of expertise extend to Jewish Christianity? Supposed Hebrew Gospels and so forth? [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 15:02, 14 February 2014 (UTC) :I've read about it for half a century fairly extensively, but have no pretensions to expertise. My only feeling is that nothing can be known, most of what is said is a POV, and that, for wikipedia at least, we have no other option that to write article according to strict criteria of WP:RS, WP:Due, making them reflect the scholarly consensus, where ascertainable, while allowing leeway for nuancing dissent positions when they are not notably eccentric or fringe. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:21, 14 February 2014 (UTC) ::That's exactly what we need. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 17:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC) == Reference Errors on 17 February == [[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|35px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]]. I have '''automatically detected''' that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. {{#ifeq:1|1|It is|They are}} as follows: *On the [[:Khazars]] page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=595865360 your edit] caused a [[:Category:Pages with DOI errors|DOI error]] <small>([[Help:CS1_errors#Check_.7Cdoi.3D_value|help]])</small>. ([{{fullurl:Khazars|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AReferenceBot%7CReferenceBot%5D%5D}} Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F595865360%7C{{Replace|Khazars| |%20}}%5D%5D Ask for help]) Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a [[false positive]], you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, <!-- User:ReferenceBot/inform -->[[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]] ([[User talk:ReferenceBot|talk]]) 00:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC) :If you can automatically detect an error, you can automatically fix it, bothead.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:17, 18 February 2014 (UTC) == Belated MC == more than one year and one month late old chap. better late than never but not if all you are going to do is pen some tired cliches lacking accents (with a weak pun as a sorry bone to chew on). i'm afraid that my grey matter is not what it used to be after firing out a couple of life projects and holding on for dear life lest i lose track of one of these celestially bound bodies whose adventures never cease to amaze me. take care and if some cells should miraculously regenerate with time, i will see you again soon. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 20:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC) ::I began to worry about the symptomology suggested by the pleonasm of ''tired'' clichés, until I realized as per some thread above, that the clichés in question must be pneumatically endowed ('tire-d', no gross vulgarity intended) and keep running by sheer inertial momentum. Then of course I thought of [[pun|Walter Redfern]]'s doughty labours on the subject. I'm a re-tired cliché, as is most of the world, keeping faith with [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+1:9&version=NKJV the wisdom of Ecclesiasticus]. Don't worry: cells regenerate. Unfortunately, those ([[Abu Ghraib]], [[Camp 1391]]'s cells etc. ) of the degenerate hegemons, under whose imperial sway we are expected to accommodate ourselves, grow apace as well, and the grey that matters ([http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EQ05WYmuCz0C&pg=PA35 Graham Greene]) is whitewashed by the manichaistic simpletons who would reduce all the niceties of perception into a duelling chess-match of simplistic dualisms. There! I've matched your ellipticism, and my Sunday morning exercise in rhetoric is done! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:14, 23 February 2014 (UTC) == Wording == Hi. You are correct on what you wrote in your edit summary [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli%E2%80%93Arab_conflict_in_Hebron&diff=597077300&oldid=597075900 here]. But I think the wording was used for the whole part, not only that about the occupation. However, all of the points there, except for collective punishment, is undisputed. So maybe it is better to have it like it is now but change to "and what they describe as collective punishment". Any thoughts? --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 20:03, 25 February 2014 (UTC) :Hi. Well, collective punishment is a subset of 'military occupation' (which no one doubts: it is surrounded on all sides: a few days ago a major clash occurred when Palestinians tried to protest their lack of access to their businesses and residences on Shuhada Street). I always prefer the inclusive term: put the subterm in and someone will ask for a specific source on 'collective punishment' at Hebron. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::I take your notes seriously enough to reexamine my own quick reply. The result is I've done an extensive preliminary edit there, with links to several books that would be useful as background. For the moment I'm busy, but I hope the edit wasn't messy and that the passage you mention is improved. One link was broken and had to be replaced. Regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :::Just as a reminder how absurdly ticklish otherwise normal descriptive terminology can appear to some. A Palestinian posted [http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/26/israels-bubble-of-denial/ some days back] a note on his Facebook page about living 'under occupation'. The Israeli police hauled in him for an interrogation, since this was evidence for 'incitement', i.e. a crime of hatred. Using even internationally accepted legal terminology is now interpreted in some quarters as an incitement to race hatred. Phew![[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :: True but when it was separated as before, I think it gives another view. You have formulated it great now. There was some problem with the formatting but I have corrected it now. :: I read about the protests and actually thought to add it here but other things took up my time. I had not read about the other case, which is an astonishing one. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 20:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC) == Archiving == Nishidani, I've now set up automatic archiving for this enormous talk page of yours. It will '''never''' archive the "The West Bank/Judea and Samaria Problem" section at the top of this page. Some details: * I've given you a nice fat archive size of 250K. That should put off for a while the evil day when you run out of archives. * I've set it to keep at least 20 threads on this page, and to keep at least the most recent 180 days of discussion. In other words, the archiving bot will not be too aggressive. * You can tweak these parameters yourself by editing the top bit of this page (but I think they're reasonable). * It is possible to prevent, or just delay, the archiving of any specific section. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MiszaBot/Archive_HowTo#Delaying_or_preventing_archiving_of_particular_threads here], or drop a note on my talk page. The archiving bot will not bother you with any notifications that it's done its work (none of my doing, that's just how the bot is set up). So don't be surprised when you find bits of your talk page have disappeared down the archive plug hole. And with a bit of luck, neither of us should have to worry any more (at least, not for a few years) about archiving this page. Regards, --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 12:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :Well, the quiet performer (genius) comes to my aid once more. Thanks mate. I was thinking of you the other day while reading [[Richard Flanagan]]' s recent novel ''The Narrow Road to the Deep North,'' which I venture to suggest as a minute token of thanks you might profitably read (in memoriam, etc.) Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::Flanagan is a lucky man, at least his father talked to him. I never had any sense of love or affection from my father; I think in those days it was the duty and obligation of a macho male to support his wife and children, which he did do, but nothing beyond that. He was so badly affected psychologically by the war that he was an extremely difficult man to live with. I just mostly experienced criticism, with outbursts of fearsome rage from time to time, upsetting everyone in sight, especially my poor mother. It tends to inhibit conversation when you feel you're treading on eggshells all the time, never quite knowing when something might trigger an outburst. ::I think I'll leave the book for a while. I did read a few books by survivors after my father died, which left me feeling very depressed (not immediately after - I had my hands full between a demanding job and the large amount of work needed to wind up my father's estate, mostly hindered rather than helped by the Scottish solicitors, who charged the usual outrageous monopoly fee). In very belated reply to a query of yours a long time ago – although he said almost nothing about the war, I do know that he was in the RAF, not the army, and that he rose to the exalted rank of corporal before he was captured. Regards --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 15:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :Flanagan was lucky, and the exception (another was our family tailor, who went through the camps and yeet managed to retain a deep urbane serenity), and my brother's close woman friend, whose grandmother survived Auschwitz, and was subject to the kind of rage your father felt -her grandchild, raised by the woman, managed to survive her own childhood to become one of the most extraordinarily empathetic, helpful persons I've ever met. Most, paralleling Holocaust survivors, Jews and Gypsies alike, could never bear to speak of what they experienced. Without belabouring the point perhaps you might catch the film just done on [[Eric Lomax]] [[The Railway Man (film)|The Railway Man]]. I heard some months ago a very insightful interview with his widow [http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/the-railway-man/5102146 here]. Lomax, as an officer, it should be added, was luckier than yours (since as a corporal he wasn't of officer rank). In his memoirs, [[Weary Dunlop]] has pretty damning things to say about the officer class among the POW ranks.(I too had to wrest our estate from lawyers who refused to settle it because of the lucrative income they earned managing it. Just in time: the lawyer society crashed soon after and brought down hundreds of families in the ensuing bankruptcy.) Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::Lomax's was one of those depressing books. I haven't seen the film, but I did see something on the television quite recently about the film (can't remember which channel it was) and [http://thefriend.org/article/forgiveness-on-the-river-kwai/ this piece] in [[the Friend]] magazine (anything by [[John Lampen]] is well worth reading, BTW). Incidentally, my father never expressed any anger or resentment expliicitly against the Japanese; occasionally, when the subject of stammering came up, he would joke, "the Japanese cured me of my stammer". On the subject of damning remarks, my father was scathing about two groups of men he encountered in his career at ICI: the public school old boy network and arts graduates. So you'd probably have gotten it with both barrels! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 17:42, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :::One Changi POW I knew came back as a cheer-leader for Japan, and couldn't wait for the day they would triumph as a superpower! My father told me, when I started to learn the language, that the most racist anti-Japanese soldiers in his club tended to be pen-pushers who'd never actually fought in the Pacific War, and just swaggered with antipathy as they bullied their way through the country when it was occupied. My uncle, who had fought them, agreed. Your dad perhaps hated Arts Graduates because they stocked the POW uni courses, teaching men obscure subjects like Sanskrit, Malay, Greek history, Latin prose etc. to distract them from thoughts of starvation. Well my reading suggestions were rather inappropriate. It's just that from age 6, I found books enabled me to read myself out of a barrage of put-downs and humiliations - they taught you to disinvest in yourself sufficiently to see the trouble or pain behind the insult. Not much consolation if one missed out on a fundamental, like having a father. I've often noted, initially with surprise, that exceptionally good fathers suffered from bad parentage, and coped by reversing, rather than, as is the class norm, repeating the pattern. Cheers, mate, and thanks.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::::On arts graduates, I doubt it. He said he was shocked, when he got to university after the war, how little work the arts students had to do compared to the scientists (so he might have let you off if you were putting in 12 hours a day in the uni library). Then you have to remember that ICI was a science- and engineering-based company, and he was infuriated by arts graduates being promoted to positions where they didn't have a clue about what they were managing. Similarly he thought the ex-public school types tended to get promoted beyond their ability. On the other hand, he did have a high regard for [[Paul Chambers (industrialist)|Paul Chambers]], an ex-public school boy and the first non-scientist to be head of ICI. It's partly why I went for the science courses at school (my choice, not his), plus I could see that my father, as a scientist, was earning a lot more money than most of the other kids' dads. In any case I just enjoyed doing maths and science! The point you make about seeing the pain (or whatever) behind the insult (or indeed, any offence) is true indeed. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 19:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC) == Almost a first == [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent&diff=597415887&oldid=597407579 This] is a first indeed. We did come to some good compromises, but I don't think we ever agreed on anything before. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 00:57, 28 February 2014 (UTC) :Well, I'm not surprised. You do understand the force of rational arguments - that's been clear to me for years. I don't care whether editors' private opinions clash with my own, as long as there is room for reasonable compromises, based on honest attention to what one's interlocutor is saying, and a decent respect for the rules in this madhouse. Cheers. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC) == Khazar theory of Ashkenazi ancestry == Hi - with this edit[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khazar_theory_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry&diff=next&oldid=590505612] I'm guessing that you moved material from another article but didn't put a link to that article in your edit summary (that needs to be fixed with a dummy edit to avoid copyvio). My problem is that you didn't bring over the references, so we have Brook 2009 and Brook 2010 without a clue as to what these are. I've just reverted someone who replaced one of those with a website (which at least was selling his book among others, so some relevance). Can you please fix this? Thanks. And, um, Sheba? [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 15:44, 1 March 2014 (UTC) ::Mea culpa on all counts. I've done part of your request. What's the 'copyvio' in copying one's own wiki work from one page to another. Five months late on Sheba, sheba! (/I don't know if any of your dialects uses sheeba in the sense of 'cripes, jeepers, creepers') Work load. I'm doing a long analysis of an obscure oriental book. Will get to it when time allows, unless infarction intervenes. Thanks for the heads-up, Doug, as youngsters here write.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) :::If it's all yours, I guess that's ok, I don't recall our guidelines mentioning what we do in that case. I tend to say something in the edit summary but sometimes forget when I'm copying my own text. I hope your mention of infarction isn't a medical concern. Nope, never heard sheeba used that way. But the US is a huge place, loads of phrases that are only used on one locality, ditto on a smaller basis the UK, the only 2 English speaking countries I know well. Don't worry about Sheba. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 19:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) == Reticent to... == Ah, Nishidani, this time I must disagree. "Reticent to" is attested in English since 1875 according to the OED: <blockquote> 2. Reluctant to perform a particular action; hesitant, disinclined. Chiefly with about, or to do something.<br> <small> 1875 Rep. Sel. Comm. Condition of South (43rd U.S. Congr. 2 Sess.) 15 The State registrar was just as reticent to give us information.<br> 1932 Daily Capital News & Post Tribune (Jefferson City, Missouri) 14 Feb. 11 a/6 They were reticent about leaving it [sc. home].<br> 1948 Jrnl. Amer. Folklore 61 29 Dreams, promptings of the spirit, and peep-stones have all combined to make the reticent girl give in to the proposals of a polygamous suitor.<br> 1959 Times 8 Oct. 13 Having..informed my employer of my impending call-up, he is naturally reticent to improve my position.<br> 2008 F. Kellerman Mercedes Coffin xxxviii. 311 She knows he'd be reticent to hire a lawyer to defend her?<br> </small> </blockquote> It seems to have begun in America, though, but did make it into The Times by 1959. In all other aspects of the discussion we concur, of course.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 17:31, 1 March 2014 (UTC) ::Well, screwmecadaverous, Alf, yu've cort me by the short and curlies, ...no!fuckit! ::'''Reticent''' :::*'reserved, disinclined to speak freely; given to silence or concealment.'J.A.Simpson, E.S.C. Weiner (eds), [[Oxford English Dictionary]],2nd ed. 1989, Clarendon Press, Oxford vol.XIII,p.777 col.2 will admit of no example of 'reticent' in the sense of 'reluctant'. So, stuff that up ya septic tank pipe and smoke it:) Doug's just given me some grief on the Khazar page, and I need a feed and a bottle of Barolo before I come to my senses! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) == Passive voice == You may find this of interest. In the mid-1980s, when I worked at Al-Fajr Newspaper, a friend of mine was teaching English in a village in the West Bank. She wanted to do a lesson on active and passive voice, and for this purpose she photocopied reports of the same clashes between Palestinians and Israeli forces, as published in both the Jerusalem Post and Al-Fajr English Weekly. Where the JP routinely reported that "x Palestinians were injured", "y houses were demolished", AF reported that "Israeli forces injured x Palestinians, destroyed y homes". It's a lesson her pupils never forgot! Happy weekend. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 21:35, 7 March 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Roland. 'Old' newspaper hands know these tricks, and it's a pity much of it appears to be lost on contemporary readers. Actually, I don't mind the passive voice in historical narrative. It's not uncommon, but there's no reason why one can't accompany it with the instrumental ''by''. 'z Palestinians were injured by Israeli forces'. [[Karl Kraus (writer)|Karl Kraus]] attributed the disasters of Shanghai, and much of WW1, to slipshod journalism with its endemic solecisms, wrote most of the nearly 1000 issues of Die Fackel to hammer away on this point: that the sanity of reality is dependent on extremely precise respect for grammar and usage (pity the poor bugger thought it necessary to convert to Catholicism: it gave his critique, in crucial moments, like his attack on Herzl, an antisemitic edge. He never had the good fortune to listen to Eric Hobsbawm's mother's advice to her son on identity, which I'm sure you're familiar with). Have a good one yourself, Roland. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:41, 7 March 2014 (UTC) ::And I wonder what Hobsbawm's mother would have said to the eminent and learned saxophone player... <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 23:45, 7 March 2014 (UTC) :::Ha!) In any case, Eric Hobsbawm, [http://books.google.it/books?id=y2gyK5PxNB8C&pg=PA24 ''Interesting Times,''] p.24 (read on through to 25). [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:56, 8 March 2014 (UTC) == Your sermon a performative demonstration of your point == ...because it could have been preached equally well on Saturday morning as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=598901811 on Sunday]. Nicely done.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 23:06, 9 March 2014 (UTC) == Thank you == {| style="border: 1px solid #999999; background-color: #FFFFFF}; width:100%;" |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Socratic Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Socratic Barnstar.png|100px]]}} |rowspan="2" | |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#9D741A; font-family:Comic Sans MS, Arial, Helvetica;" | '''The Socratic Barnstar''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your wisdom in the analysis of the mess that was the Gilabrand AE case, and the wisdom that your comments continue to show. The Israel-Palestine area needs more editors like you. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 17:56, 10 March 2014 (UTC) |} :That's deeply appreciated. But your last edit has a summary 'sleep deprived' (the spelling 'derpived' proves the truth of it) and I worry that this might be misread against you, however. Malice or reading between the lines for non-existent fine print to prove an unempirical apriori suspicion, is commonplace in the I/P area, and bad blood is easy to stir at the slightest appearance of administrative appreciation. Admins must, of necessity, keep all us us at an arm's distance (I wanted to write 'yard' to increment the distance between us peons and the neutral board of directors and admins, but didn't because it was the standard term in Shakespeare's day, in the KJB, and current till Dickens' time, for penis!). My work there was not so much about Gilabrand: I have a long term scepticism about the 'readability' of diffs on a subject as evidence for the court. Unless one knows the context, they can prove very very tricky. Though it risks [[WP:TLDR]], we peons in such cases should assist arbs by doing the legwork and contextualizing each diff in an evidence report, because not to do so, is to assume they capture what is at stake. It's particularly important in sensitive areas. To expect admins, who can't be familiar with every topic area, to rake through subtle sequences and figure what is going on, is to expect inhumane energies, and demand that they give up their off-wiki lives. Thanks, in any case, and happy somnia! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:17, 10 March 2014 (UTC) == Amalek edit you made == "Armenians as Amalekites: Fixing an horrendous confusion of displaced sourcing, WP:OR. If you edit in anything, please follow standard principles.". This was not my work. I restored material a new editor deleted without cause or comment. The critique is meant for the prior editor that added that material. [[User:Alatari|Alatari]] ([[User talk:Alatari|talk]]) 15:41, 11 March 2014 (UTC) :Sorry for any confusion there. You were quite right to restore that material, which should never have been removed. My edit summary referred to whoever did the original compilation. Thanks, and cheers.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC) ::You are amazingly fast at reorganizing that to a better form. Your page says you retired. You are addicted... Thanks for all the work you've put in. [[User:Alatari|Alatari]] ([[User talk:Alatari|talk]]) 16:35, 11 March 2014 (UTC) == 1517 pogroms == Hi, You participated to a discussion on that article. A brief opinion would be welcome [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:1517_Safed_pogrom here]. [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 17:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC) :Thank you. I forgot about the word opinion... I will try to take care of this !!! [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 19:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC) == Talkback == {{Talkback|Al Ameer son|mayor/governor}} {{Talkback|Al Ameer son|mayor/governor}} <div style="background-color: #BBDDFF; border:1px solid #4169E1; padding:6px 4px"><!-- --> [[File:Nuvola apps edu languages.svg|left|18px]] Hello, Nishidani. You have '''new messages''' at [[User talk:Ojh2|Ojh2's talk page]]. <small>--09:41, 18 May 2014 (UTC)</small></div>{{z1}}<!-- Template:Talkbacktiny --> == Mongoloid Khazars == Although you were right to remove that silly passage about Khazars being more mongoloid in a certain region, I'd like to bring your attention to [http://books.google.ca/books?id=hEuIveNl9kcC&q=mongoloid#v=onepage&q=mongoloid&f=false this]. Notice the beginning of page 4. [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 23:19, 25 April 2014 (UTC) :Thanks for that note. I've added a note re skulls, as you will see.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:23, 26 April 2014 (UTC) ==Things to be done/Notes to self (or what pieces are left of that hypothetical entity== *Huldra trans [[Talk:Bardala‎]] *[[Sabah]] as per promise to Doug Weller *[http://books.google.com/books?id=GkbzYoZtaJMC&pg=PA276 Abu Iyad] as per promise to Al Ameer *[[The Ashkenazi Jews/Khazarian origins theory]] *[[Werner Muensterberger]] * 中里介山 and also his 大菩薩峠, which have no wiki article. ('to call him Dickensian would be utterly inadequate, to call Dickens "Kaizanian" would be to flatter him greatly' [[William E. Naff]], ''The Kiso Road: The Life and Times of Shimazaki Tōson,'' University of Hawai'i Press, 2011 p.4.) [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC) (2)'To call Dickens "Kaizanian" would be an over-statement of his considerable gift for for creating memorable characters, while to call Kaizan "Dickensian" would be a seriously misleading understatement. This richness became all the more impressive when set against the national drive towards human standardization.' ibid. p.430 To be kept close to the bottom of this page because I forget the agenda as time scurries on [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC) **e.g.<ref="Horowitz" />{{rp|122-3}} [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:20, 11 March 2014 (UTC) == Systemic bias or systemic angst == We use only mainstream newspaper sources for the I/P area updates. A half a day ago, Kerry touched on the risks Israel ran of becoming an apartheid state unless progress was made in serious peace talks. Well, in fifteen hours, [[Al Jazeera]] noted it almost immediately, as did the [[Jerusalem Post]], [[The Times of Israel]] and [[Front Page Magazine]]; it took a mere 5 for [[Haaretz]] to note the fact; [[Ynet]] registered the news after 7 hours. The NYTs is still twiddling its thumbs, trying to work out how to spin this, on its not-yet-breaking news breaking news page. On the other hand it has the latest updates on sanctions against Russia, and was first off the block to shout that 'Egypt Sentences More Than 680 to Death'. On important I/P information, every dot and comma must be cross-checked, every stylistic nuance, every detail in the ostensible troublesome balance sheet must be calculated. In short, why bother?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :Perhaps they are waiting for the inevitable push back and State Department "clarification" before they go to print. To be fair to the NYT, the only mainstream US publication I can see running the story is [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html The Daily Beast] (while all the main European and Israeli media are running it). The other point to note is that it has taken the US government 4 years to acknowledge something that was [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/03/barak-apartheid-palestine-peace stated by the Israeli defence Minister in 2010]. I guess it speaks to the evolving limits of acceptable discourse on the I/P conflict in the US. From what I recall, Chomsky's [[propaganda model]] posits that liberal media like the NYT set the limits of what is acceptable discourse in a society so it is not surprising that they are [http://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/service-agenda-editors.html on the front line of that debate with regards the IP conflict]. [[User:Dlv999|Dlv999]] ([[User talk:Dlv999|talk]]) 15:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks for that, Dlv. I noted it here because these things affect I/P wikiwork, which one hopes is the one global medium that, by its intrinsic logic, rebuffs the idea that reportage need suffer from a tactical incompleteness in coverage. Actually, what is odd is that as opposed to the NYTs articles, which are as dreadful as the negotiating imbalance, (protests couldn't get them to change Jodi Rudoren's statement that the Golan heights was in Israel) the [[New York Review of Books]] consistently carries very strong statements, in the books it reviews and the reviewing editors' comments, on Israel, books, mostly written by the Jewish or Israeli intelligentsia, that cover far more meticulously the hidden or silenced (what the Japanese call 黙殺, [[Mokusatsu|killing by silence]]) dimension, the facts on the ground, historical and contemporary. Clearly, therefore, the daily print version pitches its reportage to Middle American perceptions and desires an 'even-handedly' pro-Israeli spin, whereas the NYRB knows full well that its highly literate subscribers, Jewish or otherwise, are far more informed about the area than what is acceptable in 'public' discourse, and won't take the usual dose of suburban pabula. I can't quite figure out how this dissonance works for any self-respecting journalist at his newsdesk: commercial elements evidently dictate the distinction, but it sits very oddly. All the news that is fit to print is carefully snippeted out in one outlet, and studiously crammed into the other, depending on the constituency. The right hand knows what the left is doing, and vice-versa. Fascinating.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:38, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :::Coverage-wise, perhaps things are changing somewhat as a result of people like [http://www.law.cuny.edu/faculty/directory/shamas.html Diala Shamas] and things like the [http://www.btselem.org/video/cdp_background B'Tselem’s Camera Project]. Citizen journalism with the added bonus of occasionally getting shot, just like real journalists. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 16:45, 28 April 2014 (UTC) ::::True, everything's now covered, but little is still widely reported. While watching the clock to see how long it would take the NYTs to get over the angst and convey the gist of Kerry's remarks, I noted that its most emailed article this week is on Tony Blare's remark that [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/world/europe/britain-blair-speaks-out-on-islamic-extremism.html?src=rechp 'the spread of Islamic extremism “represents the biggest threat to global security of the 21st century.'] Maybe, but in the meantime, dealing with the real world, I emailed him years ago in Jerusalem to see if he could ensure that one more IDF uprooting of a solar-powered electrical grid for a khirbeh where a few hardscrabble farmers south of Hebron live could be reversed. He had been reported as having visited the area. and, after all, he is paid a reported $million bucks as special envoy of the [[Quartet on the Middle East]] to improve communication between the parties. Nothing happened. It's not the sort of practical thing than politicians think sufficiently attention-getting, I guess. Give me the [[Ezra Nawi]]s of this world any day, who merit the Nobel Prize that chap in the White House refuses to bother returning. History is what elites mess with, or mess up: the redemption of modernity is that those who suffer from its consequences can now write what really happens (which of course the elites will never read). Sorry for this blog. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:50, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :::::Well, unless I've missed something, the NYTs wasn't waiting for a State Dep. "clarification" but rather for [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/world/middleeast/kerry-apologizes-for-remark-that-israel-risks-apartheid.html Kerry's inevitable apology] fo saying what every analyst in Israel or elsewhere knows as the logical consequence of indecision.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::* ''The New York Times'' in an instance of being the newspaper of [http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/24/nytu-a24.html false record.] ::::::* [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html Kerry:] "''A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second-class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state.''" Now, as theoretically each state of the two-state solution could practise apartheid, it would be interesting to know how that is going to be prevented; non-Jewish citizens of Israel become citizens of the Palestinian state and vice-versa? Also, it would be interesting to hear Kerry explain what would be so bad about a non-apartheid unitary state which is the state of all its citizens rather than being "the state of the Jewish people." ::::::* [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html Kerry:] ''Kerry also said that at some point, he might unveil his own peace deal and tell both sides to “take it or leave it.”'' Oh right! No marks for guessing whether his plan would be taken or left by either side. ::::::<span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 15:03, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::: I hope that my editing is acceptable here, otherwise, please do not hesitate and delete it. In my opinion, a unitary state cannot succeed. Both sides have bad records concerning minorities. The "[[Price tag policy]]" criminals are repeatedly evading the law enforcement, which is a shame for Israel. Unfortunately the situation is not improving. The poor Israeli election system give the small parties a lot of political force and the voters majority does not have a say. On the other hand, Israelis are looking at the current Syrian war, and would not accept a solution of a unitary state, which will possibly mimick such quarrels. [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 18:06, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Please don't apologize for editing here or on other talk pages. We are all equal before wikilaw, and your rights are those of everyone else. This is not a coterie enclave.The PTP incidents are quite acceptable hazing. Having your land systematically and literally stolen as '(foreign)state land' in contravention of the Geneva Conventions is what is intolerable. But this is not the place to discuss these matters.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::Don't all countries have bad records concerning minorities, with the possible exception of...no, can't think of one. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 18:10, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Now, come on, Sean. Some countries are run by minorities that have bad records concerning majorities but the minorities are treated quite well, being in charge of everything.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 18:15, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Good point! <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::So this isn't about the widespread geographical distribution of records by comedians that make racist jokes about minorities. Nevermind then. It would be a bit hypocritical of me to criticize countries being run by minorities that have bad records concerning majorities because it was that kind of shameful behavior that helped to make the country I was born in rich enough so that eventually, many years later, they could pay for my entire education without it costing me a penny, giving me the freedom to live anywhere I want, while a decolonised African peer had to do what they were told for several years to pay back their government grants. No fair. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 19:55, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::But, unless transfer of nationality or location is being considered, then the two states resulting from the two-state plan would themselves have minority populations. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Should say that I suspect that what is in the pipeline by way of solving Israel's "demographic problem", attempts at turning Jordan into The Palestine State so far having failed, is the creation of a bantustan or two on the minimum territory possible with transfer of citizenship for Israel's non-Jewish population. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 11:12, 30 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::That will never happen. You cannot by an act of parliament strip 20% of the citizenry of their native rights, constitutionally, or before the world, which is ready to ignore most violations of international law, but not a flagrant imposition of apartheid. There has always been a very neat distinction here between what you calculate you can get away with and what you can't. When Obama threw in the towel the other day, remarking:'we haven't seen the political will to actually make tough decisions', he thought he was commenting on the other two parties. He was actually revealing the defect in his, Kerry and American foreign policy: the lack of a political will to make a '''tough''' decision. A juridically fair peace requries more of Israel than it does of the disiecta membra we call Palestine, and that is why there will never be a negotiated settlement, except via an act of treason by the reps of the latter, which would carry the death penalty. So, 5 decades on, one will have one state.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::In this case, depending on how the selling is done and how many countries supporting the Palestinians go through regime changes before an agreement is reached, the answer to what can be got away with will probably be, quite a lot. Israel is facing a "demographic timebomb" and politicians such as Tzipi Livni are urging the necessity of implementing a two-state solution in order to avoid it. How will implementing a two-state solution circumevent the impending demographic timebomb? For it to work, you would have to increase the number of Jewish Israelis eligible to vote in Knesset elections, decrease or slow the rate of growth in the number of non-Jewish Israelis eligible to vote, or both. Implementing a transfer of voting eligibility of non-Jewish Israelis from Israel to the new Palestinian state would help to achieve the latter options. When it comes to international protests, I should think that those who take the homeland view, that Israel is the homeland of the Jews and the new Palestinian state will be the homeland of the Palestinians, are already well down the road to accepting that ethnic Jews will be privileged in Israel (that is, if they're not already there). That would, of course be to implement apartheid in Israel proper, or, if you prefer to give it another name, "separateness". <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:37, 1 May 2014 (UTC) (Hope you'll indulge this comment, which was added after you requested people to stop adding to this thread) ::::::::::Which would be the best solution. The presence of minorities is like a quiet conscience that sits vigilantly in the noisy parliament of that national 'amour-propre' which, otherwise on its own, sounds the death-knell of civility. When Jesus wanted to warn his fellow Jews of the dangers of failing in charity the legend has it he cited the palmary behavior of a Samaritan, the arch-enemy of Judaism. Most of what is great about modern Europe came from its minorities, the most creative being the Jews. And Sean, point taken. But my generation grew up in relatively struggling postwar countries, which could nonetheless afford universal health care and free education to tertiary level, of which you too are a beneficiary. Alf's point was that, nowadays, with the great seismic shift, elites governing western democracies that are tens of times wealthier than they, or our societies were, in earlier decades, now demand that the majority pay through the nose for every service, and cark it if they can't pony up health insurance, while insisting that their failed speculative bets in derivatives be covered by the Federal Bank. In that sense, the elitarian minorities that now are the post-Keynsian default models, insist that governments, almost completely in their pockets, downsize to zero their redistributive functions. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:02, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::: "''attempts at turning Jordan into The Palestine State so far having failed"''. I can understand that the Palestinians want to establish their state between the sea and the Jordan river, and no one has a right to tell them that their country is somewhere else. But how should we call the state of Jordan if [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan#Immigrants_and_refugees "''population of Palestinian origin constitutes about 67 percent of the Kingdom's population."''] ? . It make sense, that after a while, the 2 independent states, Palestine and Jordan , will merge, like the independent state of Texas who merged with the U.S.. <P>- "''You cannot by an act of parliament strip 20% of the citizenry of their native rights,"''. Yes, of course. These people should keep the Israeli citizenship, but what about their newborn babies? there is a precedent of British citizens, that their newborn babies are not inheriting the British citizenship, if the baby is born overseas.(I am not familiar with the details.) <P>- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baqa_al-Gharbiyye#State_of_Israel "''Baqa al-Gharbiyye is separated from its West Bank sister city, Baqa ash-Sharqiyya (or Baqa East) by the Israeli West Bank barrier which in this section coincides with the Green Line.[16] As a result, a concrete wall topped with barbed wire runs through one neighbourhood."'']. Does not it make sense that the border will move such as both Baqa villages will be united within a Palestinian state? [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 20:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::When I wrote about attempts to turn Jordan into the Palestine state, I really had in in mind Jordan-is-Palestine proponents such as Ariel Sharon. For instance, [http://www.fmep.org/reports/special-reports/the-middle-east-in-the-shadow-of-war/sharon-and-jordan this] says: "Prime Minister Sharon's historical views of Jordan are, to say the least, troubling to those who rule in Amman today. How can it be forgotten that for many years Sharon was the most prominent voice in Israel favoring the proposition that "Jordan is Palestine." During Black September he sought unsuccessfully to win the government of Golda Meir to this view, advocating that Israel withdraw its support for King Hussein in his life and death battle against the PLO. In 1982, as minister of defense in the government of Menachem Begin, Sharon's star-crossed strategy in Lebanon included the relocation of Lebanon's Palestinian population, en masse, to Jordan." <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:00, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::: I respect Nishidani wish to end this discussion here. If you wish to, we may continue in your talkpage or in mine. [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 18:32, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Thanks, but it's probably better to get back to building an encyclopedia. And I've realised that a major part of what I wrote above was based on a serious misunderstanding on my part, so I should shut my mouth before I make more of a fool of myself. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 21:30, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::97 years ago, an Imperial power decided to give a European population persecuted by antisemitism territorial rights in Palestine. 90% of the native population disagreed: the majority of religious Jews were horrified. In 2017, some end to this must take place, if decency is to prevail. Israel must accept that its 78% of a land which it only possessed only 6% of in 1948, is a bounteous historical settlement, and a stupendous achievement, where its population thrives in a booming economy with cutting edge science and technology and a fair life for most. None of this has taken place in the travailled history of the original majority population which has been systematically robbed of its possessions and rights. All the rest is bullshit and details that, in discussion, become an undignified travesty of fundamental notions of decency (because miracles of justice are rare in human history: I know of only one: the British abolition of the slave trade). But this is not what the thread was about, and I think it should end here. Regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:44, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::But the incident of the use of "apartheid" by Kerry just points to the fact that the situation is approaching critical mass insofar as the USA can no longer unilaterally support certain intransigent positions of the Israeli government. :::There are also internal pressures building in Israel, apparently, but, like Japan, the people put right-wingers in office. :::Once the USA has to start abstaining in UN votes regarding Israel, the behavior of the Israeli government will have to change rapidly, or turmoil will ensue. :::That, as I see it, is the crux of the matter at this juncture.--[[User:Ubikwit|<span style="text-shadow:black 0.09em 0.09em;class=texhtml"><font face="Papyrus">Ubikwit</font></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ubikwit| 連絡 ]]</sup><sub>[[Special:contributions/Ubikwit|<font color="#801818" face="Papyrus">見学/迷惑</font>]]</sub> 16:48, 1 May 2014 (UTC) The Guardian - Chris McGreal - [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/14/john-kerry-israel-apartheid-analysis ''Kerry wasn't wrong: Israel's future is beginning to look a lot like apartheid''], 14 May 2014: :* ''In an interview late last year, Danon told me that there is not going to be a Palestinian state, and that Netanyahu shouldn't worry what the Americans think'' :* ''Danon says bluntly that he wants to take the bulk of West Bank land – Judea and Samaria, as it's known in Israel – while ridding the Jewish state of responsibility for governing the mass of Palestinians. "Long-term, I am not talking about annexing the Palestinians. My goal is to annex – or 'apply sovereignty', as I prefer to call it – to the land in Judea and Samaria with the minimum amount of Palestinians," he told me. "So, if I am doing the map, yes, I want the majority of the land with the minimum amount of Palestinians."'' <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 23:28, 14 May 2014 (UTC) ===Pt 2, strictly on the NYTs coverage=== Could any of the young whiz kids out there tell me where the New York Times reported the news that Martin Indyk might resign from his role as Special Envoy, which caused a flurry of articles all over Israel and in many foreign papers? Thanks [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:45, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :According to [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.588834 this] Haaretz article, the source for the story was some Israeli officials in Jerusalem. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 00:06, 15 May 2014 (UTC) (you may be interested in [http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/uploads/Documents/other/IndykKeynote20140508.pdf this transcipt] of a speech and question and answer session given by Indyk on 8 May at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy’s 2014 Weinberg Founders Conference) :Thanks for both Scarpy. I did get the Indyk leak bit into the relevant article when it came out. In any case, I'm now taking some time to see what the NYTs fails to, or is late in, cover(ing) here, and the pattern is quite fascinating.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:03, 15 May 2014 (UTC) ::On the NYT, but on a different topic, where [http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/february2014/white_paper.pdf the NYT is obviously not using its fact checkers, in order to fulfill a propaganda function]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 21:26, 15 May 2014 (UTC) == Evildoer == [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]], I know you've spent a lot of time and said a lot on this AN/I case, but I hope you go to [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Proposed topic ban]] and either voice your support or opposition. From reading your statements, I think I know your position but right now, the voting could go any which way (topic ban, indefinite block, both) and since you made the original complaint, I think what you say will carry a lot of weight. As an editor who is continually and persistently reverted by Evildoer at every turn, I find myself in the peculiar position of speaking up for him, if he can work on his attitude and sourcing. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 01:20, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :If you saw me doddering down the street, and chumbling at the gums, Ma'am, you would not solicit me! I would have preferred, in any case, not to vote. I've lowered my sense of what is due, because some of those votes seem mechanical. I don't like ganging up, or even the appearance of ganging up. There are a lot worse editors in this area than E.d. On the other hand, he hasn' the faintest clue about how to read what's going on, or how to assess sources, and he consistently 'prevaricated': the point about using one's computer only at work, where he could consult the 4 sources, to gain time, and then saying he had read Dipont (re Romulus/Remus) and that his question was only 'rhetorical' only then to admit he never even looked at the 4 sources (i.e. Dipont). I've seen people permabanned for less (like myself!). Let's leave this up to a completely neutral arb, hopefully two or three, to assess the evidence and make an autonomous call as to what is due. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :: It's ironic that the two editors he most came in conflict with are asking for a lenient response in contrast to those who are unfamiliar with him. I see this happen sometimes on AN/I. I appreciate his interest in and passion for the subject, he is just so wedded to his POV, in came in conflict with the style of editing on Wikipedia. To be honest, I keep clear of topics I feel that strongly about, because I don't want to spend my time on Wikipedia fighting over these topics. It's easier to remain detached when you're editing subjects that are not tied to ones personal identity. IMHO. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 23:35, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :::Well, Liz, it's no skin off our noses to behave like gentlewomen! I too try to steer clear of topic I know a lot about, if only because it would be boring to just dollop in information. By editing areas one is ignorant of, one's unpaid work here becomes a constant learning experience. As to personal identity. Fortunate are those who have a clue as to who they are, other than what's on the ID card, if one has one. At least that's the psychoanalytic premise, and I underwrite it (though my signature is meaningless). Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:16, 7 May 2014 (UTC) == A piece of sanity on the Ukraine issues for wiki == You get endless bad reportage in mainstream newspapers. [[Counterpunch]] is not ''stricto sensu'' RS, but [http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/06/the-crisis-in-ukraine-2/ this article should be accepted].[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:32, 6 May 2014 (UTC) == Un peu de réconfort serait le bienvenu == * XX Amitiés, [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 17:40, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :Désolé. Wikipedia souvent me fait penser au proverbe: 'fais du bien à Bertrand, il te le rend en caguant.' I'ìve suggested we draw up a petition here. I'm not confident we can get enough I/P editors from all sides on board, but it's worth trying. This is not an ideological issue: we're supposed to be a community that, even in our disagreements, can see the merits of each other's work. Amitiés.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:42, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :Thank you Nish. :After all that I lived in 8 years I prefer stopping here. :Life is too short. [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 19:36, 6 May 2014 (UTC) ::It's not a lifetime obligation. One can always return. Whatever you decide, enough people here recognize the quality of your work to ensure that your edits here are taken seriously and stick. But it is good to also learn how to live outside of wikipedia, which is all duty, and hardly pleasurable. I saw ''La Môme,'' two nights ago, and can't get rid of those songs, all profoundly melancholic, but releasing springs of some indefinable joy in those who recall them. Summer is upon is, ([[Sumer Is Icumen In]]) and that is all that matters, so fuck/forget wikipedia and enjoy its air, fruits, landscape and lazy afternoons. Un abbraccio.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :::My comment above strikes me now as frivolous, given your distress. A suggestion. The cost of getting even the obvious onto wikipedia here is extremely high. You have a sufficiently wide and deep mastery of the events of 47-8, and control of the secondary literature either to do a doctorate on the subject, or a book. At least there, one is free of the absurd wastage of time and intelligence which working here exacts on many of us, and, this is the sweetener, one can actually thrive in the pleasure of giving one's own views, meticulously reasoned, without murmurs of [[WP:OR]] ruining one's liberty. I would suggest, if this 'defeat' of years of effort rankles, that you exercise that option. If successful, you then become a source for future wiki articles. If not, at least giving systematic shape to your own understanding of events will allow you the pleasures of a private sense of achieved synthesis. A good point of departure would be to map events minutely, after the declaration of the Partition Plan, against the borders outlined in late November 47 until May 14/15 1948, and systematically place each incident, '''within and without those borders''', chronologically, to determine who did what to whom (this is by no means clear from Morris 2004, for example, and in my view his thesis starts to wobble if one does this kind of analysis), listing attacks and casualties. In other words, writing a history of war that excludes all considerations of geopolitics, and outside historical agents, to concentrate exclusively on the struggle between the Yishuv and indigenous Palestinian Arab forces. Of course, please ignore this if, as I hope, you discover that there are better interests to pursue.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:22, 6 May 2014 (UTC) == Reference Errors on 6 May == [[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|35px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]]. I have '''automatically detected''' that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. {{#ifeq:1|1|It is|They are}} as follows: *On the [[:2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks]] page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=607342563 your edit] caused a [[:Category:Pages_with_broken_reference_names|broken reference name]] <small>([[Help:Cite_errors/Cite_error_references_no_text|help]])</small>. ([{{fullurl:2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AReferenceBot%7CReferenceBot%5D%5D}} Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F607342563%7C{{Replace|2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks| |%20}}%5D%5D Ask for help]) Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a [[false positive]], you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, <!-- User:ReferenceBot/inform -->[[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]] ([[User talk:ReferenceBot|talk]]) 00:31, 7 May 2014 (UTC) ==Sourcing== Hi Nishidani! I would ask you to reconsider the comment with which you reverted my edit at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexandra_Aikhenvald&oldid=607347188&diff=prev]. I know about Aikhenvald as a linguist, but that is not even at issue here. [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|Bibliographies about living persons]] are not supposed to contain any unsourced information. The entire paragraph was unsourced, so it was appropriate to delete it. And so was your revert during which you added a source. Best, [[User:G Purevdorj|G Purevdorj]] ([[User talk:G Purevdorj|talk]]) 09:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC) :It is a matter of method. If you see something unsourced, you don't eliminate it (unless of course you have the area competence that tells you the statement or facts are absurd, contradictory, or false etc.) Were that the principle, almost 80% of wikipedia's content, if not more, would go down the gurgler. I wrote the passage you cancelled, because I know of her work on New Guinea languages, and even remembered an interview with her I heard in 2008. Editors have two options when they suspect something: (a) do a google search, which in this case (Aikhenvald+tok-pisin+manambu) would have immediately yield the source, or, if they are too busy, post a {{cn}} tag. I admit I was irritated that I had to go back and do that work, even if it cost me only a minute, hence my edit summary. But had I not by chance left that page, which I glanced at and edited just once, on my watchlist, your failure to check for sources and subsequent elision would have impoverished it, cancelled work by another editor, and left the general reader ignorant of a minor, but important detail. The page could be expanded significantly, also: she deserves better notice as one of the most outstanding linguists of modern times. One must always seek to enrich, rather than impoverish, articles in this fragile, randomly edited, digital encyclopedia. Regards.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:36, 7 May 2014 (UTC) == Thank you == {| style="border: 1px solid #999999; background-color: #FFFFFF}; width:100%;" |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Socratic Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Socratic Barnstar.png|100px]]}} |rowspan="2" | |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#9D741A; font-family:Comic Sans MS, Arial, Helvetica;" | '''The Socratic Barnstar''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I was meaning to thank you months ago but I forgot to. You've single handedly turned the [[Khazars]] article into one worthy of FA status. Not only is it free of edit wars now, but it's nice to be able to read one of my favorite articles without seeing it shrink or inflate with original research. :)))) [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 20:08, 12 May 2014 (UTC) |} Deeply appreciated, but I couldn't have gotten it into shape alone. I might have done a fair bit of the work, but it was an environment of several posters like yourself, Laszlo, Andrew and Jeepez (I hope I've forgotten no one, but at my age . .), ready to read closely, curb edit warriors, and check that constituted the ''sine qua non'' of anything accomplished there. Teamwork by people with a critical independence can do wonders, and no one main editor should forget that debt. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:11, 12 May 2014 (UTC) == CFD discussion == [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]], since you edit in the broad area of the Middle East, I'd welcome your opinion in the discussion on the deletion of the Semitic peoples' categories. The question about these categories seems to hinge on whether or not the editor believes Semitic is correctly applied to people or if it should be restricted to describing certain topics, like language, geography or history. Please weigh in at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 11#Category:People of Semitic descent]]. Thanks. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 14:50, 13 May 2014 (UTC) == [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard]] == I don't want to be a headache but your experience with fringe theories are needed [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#History of the Jews in Russia|here]]. [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 23:43, 14 May 2014 (UTC) == Query == Are there any maps uploadable for the disposition of Yishuv forces on the 13/14 May 1948 set against the Nov.30 Partition plan map? One exists, and can be viewed at 17.15 minutes into [[Salman Abu Sitta]]'s lecture on the Right of Return [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNW9dCDanho&sa=U&ei=nrx3U_L2I8aM7Qb9_YGwDg&ved=0CB4QtwIwAA&sig2=m57yJtS8bMhW1dM84MRujA&usg=AFQjCNEnZq6OuVkOJ_i3JasyGYjjTgfW4Q here]. His argument is that on the day of the 'Arab Invasion' , Yishuv forces were already outside the lines allocated to them. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:52, 17 May 2014 (UTC) == Notes for possible future edits == *New definition of nakba. <blockquote>a demonstration on '''Nakba Day—the anniversary of Israel’s Declaration of Independence in 1948'''. (Jonathan S. Tobin,[http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/05/21/was-nakba-shooting-another-al-dura-libel-israel-palestinians/ 'Was Nakba Shooting Another al-Dura Libel?,'] [[Commentary (magazine)|Commentary Magazine]] 21 May 2014.)</blockquote> *The problem with [[List of Israeli assassinations]] is that it is restricted so far to ordered killings, mostly admitted by the state actor. If the 15 May 2014 killings turn out to give the lie to the [[Pallywood]]<ref>Yossi Sarid, [http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.592275 'Holes in their backs,'] [[Haaretz]] 24 May, 2014.</ref> memes circulating, the following data, plus sources indicating the outcome of investigations, should be entered there. It parallels the [[Mohammad al-Dura]] incident, given the indeterminacy, save for one element: in the former, responsibility was admitted immediately, only to be denied later. In the latest incident, responsibility was denied, the disinformation on tampered footage deconstructed within days. {| class="wikitable sortable" |- ! style="width:8%;"|Date ! style="width:8%;"|Place ! style="width:18%;"|Target ! style="width:20%;"|Description !Action ! style="width:12%;"|Executor |- |May 15, 2014 |[[Beitunia]], [[West Bank]] |Nadeem Siam Nawara(17); Mohammad Mahmoud Odeh Salameh(16). A third student, Mohammed Aza, was shot through the lungs |Students |Shot dead in the back in two separate incidents (73 minutes apart) after a demonstration involving rock throwing outside Ofer Prison. |[[Israel Border Police]].<ref>Peter Beaumont,[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/22/footage-palestinian-boys-shot-genuine-btselem 'Footage of Palestinian boys being shot is genuine, says Israeli rights group,'] [[The Guardian]], 22 May 2014.</ref><ref>Gili Cohen and Jack Khoury,[http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592312 'New CNN footage of Nakba Day killings fuels debate over deaths,'] 22 May 2014.</ref ><ref>Ivan Watson, Kareem Khadder and Mike Schwartz, [http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/22/world/meast/israel-west-bank-shooting/ 'Father blames Israeli military in Palestinian teens' deaths,'] [[CNN]] 22 May 2014.</ref><ref>Jodi Rudoren, [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/world/middleeast/palestinian-teenagers-video.html 'Video Renews Questions on Death of Young Palestinians,'] [[New York Times]], 20 May 2014.</ref> |}[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:31, 23 May 2014 (UTC) {{reflist|close=1}} == Israel - Palestine Conflict == It said at the top that you can only revert once every 24 hours on that page if you Edit it. You might be blocked now, you reverted twice! XD [[User:TDFan2006|The Toon Disney Guy]] ([[User talk:TDFan2006|talk]]) 11:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC) :What you did was self-evident vandalism. I/P articles are not disneyland, toon comics or a kindergarten sandpit. If you have legitimate objections that have missed the lynx-eyed gaze of a dozen long-term editors, address the talk page. If you wish to take this to A/1 read [[WP:Boomerang]]. Whatever, the mass removal of RS-sourced (4) material without warning is vandalism.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:03, 5 June 2014 (UTC) ::I've checked your record, and can find no evidence at a quick review of interest in anything other than cartoons and television, except one edit to that page which was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict&diff=prev&oldid=596899305 a drive-by tag plastering edit]. Please correct me if I err.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC) :::[[Hips Don't Lie|No,]] [[What If (Jason Derulo song)|that]] [[Number 1 (Tinchy Stryder song)|is]] [[Buzzin' (Mann song)|wrong,]] [[Forever (Drake song)|Dude!]] Also. Why are you bothered about that? [[WP:DICK|You don't need to be a dick]] about it. [[User:TDFan2006|The Toon Disney Guy]] ([[User talk:TDFan2006|talk]]) 07:34, 6 June 2014 (UTC) ::::[[Lil Bibby|Unlike you]], [[Beth Orton|I wasn’t born]] [[Yesterday|yesterday]]. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC) == JarlaxleArtemis == For the record, it absolutely is him - even down to denying his identity (he also denied that he was Grawp until that was proven). He reacts instinctively - any time anyone challenges his edits, he starts making unicode-infused, empty, cowardly threats against them. As if this had ever worked. This has been going on for ten years, since he was 15, and he hasn't changed a bit. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 14:43, 9 June 2014 (UTC) :I'm deeply appreciative of the work you, and others like Malik, do in keeping this nonsense clear of pages. Jeez, I never really follow this stuff, but from 15-25 he's wasted a decade doing this? - ten of the best years of one's life, when one writes poems, reads impossibly dull tomes that turn out to be memorable for some gem one discovers or page-turning novels, treks through deserts, or along thin pathways in tropical forests, listens to the Beatles and Elvis, learns languages, travels the world, screws around, and up, goes to concerts to hear Richter, or watch Nureyev, works on a kibbutz, plays football and cricket, skulls and runs in long-distance events, almost gets murdered, carouses till dawn in good company every week in hundreds of pubs from London to Toronto to Los Angeles, and this kid's lost himself in fighting an ephemeral nanosecond war seated before a computer screen instead? It's profoundly sad because pointless. The state of Israel flourishes, and will continue to do so, whatever historians write, or angry POV pushers of the eternal panic-button of antisemitism or anti-antisemitism say, or do. I used to laugh when I saw the otherwise dumb message 'Get a life!' on the net. I now realize that it appears to be appropriate. Cheers and thanks.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC) ::And a big thank you from me also, to you :NawlinWiki, and Malik and Zero and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User+talk%3AHuldra all the others] who help keep the death threats etc off my page, Cheers to you! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 23:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC) :::Good grief! I never realized you had that many. Take it as a backhanded compliment, sys(ter). By a quick calculation (no of death threats etc vs number of edits on Palestinian villages) it is empirical proof at last that you remain the most important and invaluable contributor to wikipedia's database on the Palestinian world.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:27, 10 June 2014 (UTC) ::::Of course I take it as a big compliment! :D But I really haven´t gotten the larges compliment yet; having socks named after you....I´m green with envy...: {{user|NishidaniDoesBadStuffToChildren}} :) Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 20:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC) ==Beitunia== The Beitunia shootings incident probably deserves its own article at some point given the coverage, although perhaps it's too soon. Anyhow, you may not have seen a more recent NYT article[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/world/middleeast/israel-suspends-soldier-in-west-bank-shooting-investigation.html?_r=0] B'Tselem seem to be keeping track of the media reports.[http://www.btselem.org/in-the-media] <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 12:40, 10 June 2014 (UTC) :Thanks for the links. I've a whole file on that, thinking that it fits the criteria for a targeted killing but none of the earlier reports gave it as an instance of the same, until I noticed that, today, Human Right Watch reported its considered view that this consisted of a targeted killing. In that report, HRW lists quite a number of civilian killings that result from targeting practices with live fire during demonstrations, which however never figure in the usual lists of targeted assassinations, where the assumption is that there must be some Israeli testimony that the suspect was a 'militant'. This is just of course bias: one could add a large list of such killings that are not labelled that way ('targeted assassinations'), but they can't be added unless we have independent assessments classifying them that way. To note just another:- *October (24?) , 2001 *[[Tulkarm]] *[[Abdallah Jarousha]]. *Unknown. A businessman *Shot by Israeli snipers from Battalion 202 of the Paratroop Brigade, on suspicion of using a nearby telephone booth to regularly report Israeli positions. *[[IDF]](ref Chaim Levinson [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.597922 'IDF officer promoted despite role in Palestinian's death,'] [[Haaretz]] 10 June 2014 ref>) One can't add that to the list, despite the fact that we know who gave the order (now Brig. Gen.) Roni Numa, who, Ofir, relayed the decision to 'neutralize' a Palestinian businessman (driving in a car with his wife and brother-in-law and children), to the two snipers who then shot him dead. It's the best documented example of the genre, but is not classified yet in the targeted assassinations lists. Indeed no internet search will tell you the day the incident occurred, nor the name of the person. Of the several thousand killed so far, on my reading, several hundred would fit that description of being deliberately targeted, though not militants. But we can't do [[WP:OR]] syntheses or draw conclusions. :As to the incident deserving a page, I have extensive downloads of reportage that would make that an easy job. But in the past I generally opposed temptations to follow the habit of using wikipedia to showcase individual incidents ([[Murder of Shalhevet Pass]], The [[Death of Asher and Yonatan Palmer]],[[Death of Yehuda Shoham]],[[Murder of Eliyahu Asheri]], [[Murder of Helena Rapp]], [[Murder of Koby Mandell and Yosef Ishran]], [[Murder of Neta Sorek and Kristine Luken]],[[Murder of Ofir Rahum]],[[Murder of Oleg Shaichat]],[[Murder of Yaron Chen]],etc.) because all of those articles were written by editors wishing to make a case, assign historic blame or blacken the other side, and the events mostly fail [[WP:Notable]]. I wrote [[Zion Square assault]] to test these editors, but the event took on a life of its own and was so widely reported that its inclusion on wiki became obligatory. Sound practice would suggest that a potential article [[The Murder of Nadim Nawareh and Mohammed Salameh]] can only be justified if reportage continues over several months, and it eventually is included or noted in the ongoing stream of academic books on the I/P world.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:29, 10 June 2014 (UTC) ::I like articles about individual incidents but rarely have time to work on them. They require so much research to ensure accuracy and balance. Done well I think they can be interesting and informative in the sense that they often encapsulate broader aspects, ripples of the conflict in microcosm, in the events that came before and after the incidents, the causes and effects. Unfortunately it seems to be almost impossible to do anything well in ARBPIA. I worked on [[Murder of Hatuel family]] for a while to see if I could make it better, but ended up walking away. I genuinely don't understand why editors would only write articles about certain incidents and not others based on the nature of the victims. What's the difference ? I mean I get it, I understand what is going on and why to a certain extent for those editors, but it doesn't make any sense to me. It's a pity that Wikipedia's coverage of the day to day things that make up the conflict for the people involved is so piss poor. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 18:42, 10 June 2014 (UTC) :::Thanks. I hadn't thought about it from that angle, which I should have, given that I admire the microstory approach to history, as exemplified by the articles and monographs of [[Carlo Ginzburg]], for example. Perhaps I should reconsider an article like that. When I saw what was being done with the [[Death of Yehuda Shoham]], i.e., using a selective set of sources to underline the viviousness of Palestinians (I just noted because someone edited it, the article [[Deception: Betraying the Peace Process]] which should be deleted as a non-notable book whose agenda is to ignore what systematic studies show, by the way - same purpose on wiki), I stepped in, and it was a bit of a firefight, but in the end (haven't checked recently) managed to contextualize it historically in the flow of violence on ''both'' sides during that week, and the political consequences. I think that it should be obligatory to do this on all articles of this kind. It's not impossible because of ARBPIA, but because of source bias. We know much more from newspapers about Israeli victims on average than we do of Palestinian victims, who are lucky to get mentioned by name, while articles that deal with close background focus tend to be well informed on the Israeli context, and less so on the Palestinian context. [[Murder of Shalhevet Pass]] is a good example (I can't remember if anyone has edited into it the fact that Israeli politicians were so disgusted by the extreme media pressure the Hebron settlers put on them to turn up for the burial and transform it into a signature day for Israel's victimization, that several in the end boycotted the ceremony. It's in the sources, but those who edit the page appear to prefer to coast over it. :::As for the editors, if I may hazard a remark, restricting my remarks to bad editors from the ostensibly 'pro-Israeli' side, many of them are raised within an ideology dominated by the historical fact of anti-semitism, which is a eurocentric disease, and Zionism which was originally premised on the idea that indigenous Palestinians could be omitted from the picture. [[Victor Klemperer]] caught the syndrome back in his diaries in the early 30s when he, if my memory doesn't err, likened what would happen to Palestinians, they would be forced historically to play the role of wild Indians being shot out of history in an endlessly popular Hollywood storyline of the 'conquest of the West', untinctured by [[Karl May]]'s romantic defence of the noble savage. Both my parents' generation and mine watched endless Hollywood movies where the historical atrocities of the white conquest were ignored, while the indigenous victims of what was a kind of partial genocide by an invader, were depicted as a murderous bloodthirsty savages, always to blame. This scotoma has been revived in the post 9/11 storyline of terrorism (which of course does exist), while dying out in Westerns, and therefore 'it does make sense' to me, that they cannot see the obvious (IOTTMCO as John Lanchester wrote recently in the LRB). It is hard to feel pity if the 'other' shouldn't exist on principle, and her presence is just some dark anomalous blur on the periphery of one's vision, which is focused solely on one's own tremendous stride towards a dazzling historical achievement. :::Klemperer's vision was as prophetic as Kafka's was of modernity and Nazism. They are 'sincere' in the worst sense of that word, i.e., they cannot understand that 'sincerity' can obtain in people who disagree with them: it must be bad faith, or anti-semitism. It is a reflex Pavlovian system of group-think, as inexorable in its conclusions as any ideology.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:11, 10 June 2014 (UTC) The other relevant point to consider is system bias. For instance, while we don't have an article for the Beitunia killings, there is already an article for an event less than three days old - [[2014 kidnapping of Israeli teens]] (an example of the format described by Nishidani: "using a selective set of sources to underline the viviousness of Palestinians"). A prodigious output of (POV) articles covering Israeli victims of the the conflict while not covering Palestinian victims is a problem. [[User:Dlv999|Dlv999]] ([[User talk:Dlv999|talk]]) 10:49, 15 June 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks. I actually checked yesterday, wondering how long this would take to get into wikipedia, and, not finding an article, thought to myself that the area was improving. Alas, not so. I think editors should exercise caution in succumbing to the temptation to imitate this pattern (it does look, even if it isn't, retaliatory), even if there is a strong argument for 'balancing' the evident POV-bias. Whether or not an article should be written on the Beitunia murders or not should depend on [[WP:NOTABLE]] criteria (such events fail ''notability'' (ugh!) in wikipedia terms because their frequency is in inverse proportion to the follow-up attention given targeted Palestinian murders in the RS mainstream press - they occur almost monthly), esp. on the forensic outcome (partially known) and ongoing reports of the Israeli investigation, while keeping in mind that one can't be bound by the latter, since these notoriously drag on and tend to bury such cases.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:58, 15 June 2014 (UTC) :::Fuck, bad editors just mean revert wars, false edit summaries, and the burden of fixing crap placed on others' shoulders. 'I provide the POV pushing and you neutralize it, if anyone's looking.' [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:00, 15 June 2014 (UTC) == Your lovely vandal == I asked Alison if an IP was JarlaxleArtemis and she confirmed and blocked several accounts and another IP. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 14:08, 14 June 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Doug. I fail to see the point of this turpiloquent hyperactivism in my regard. I think the Spanish for 'water off a duck's back' is ''Por un oído me entra y por otro me sale,'' so I quack rather than quake. I still owe you that article, - just overwhelmed these months by extrawiki work and life. Will do it eventually.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC) ==Notice== [[Image:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. [[User:FatGuySeven|FatGuySeven]] ([[User talk:FatGuySeven|talk]]) 03:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC) == Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in. == [[File:Peacedove.svg|60px|left]] This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard]] regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> [[User:FatGuySeven|FatGuySeven]] ([[User talk:FatGuySeven|talk]]) 16:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC) == IP socks == Hi, regarding your comment at [[Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement]]: you seem to have forgotten to sign it. Any full RfC about the matter would be flooded with socks, me thinks. Perhaps we should start finding links to all those off-wiki reports of canvassing, and then show the damage (=huge waste of time) throw-away sock do in the I/P area, and then take it to Arb.com? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 20:35, 30 June 2014 (UTC) *Btw, have you seen [http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Halhul this]? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 01:16, 1 July 2014 (UTC) *I would absolutely love it if you could help me out on [[Talk:Nisf Jubeil]]. We need a French and a Latin reader. There are two Nisf Jubeils which have been mixed up, it seems, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 08:52, 1 July 2014 (UTC) ::Of course. But I will be away for a few days. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 09:48, 1 July 2014 (UTC) == SPI case filed == I've filed a sockpuppet case at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Smatprt. [[User:Tom Reedy|Tom Reedy]] ([[User talk:Tom Reedy|talk]]) 13:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC) == For the task ahead.... == {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Export hell seidel steiner.png|70px]] |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |Have a beer! Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC) |} Btw, one very easy task: on [[Umm al-Fahm]] Guerin writes that it has "dix huit cents" inhabitants. Isn´t that 1800? Petersen, citing Guerin, say it is 800? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:44, 9 July 2014 (UTC) ::Strewth. You may have seen me making occasional edits in here, but since Monday I have been once more chopping down trees, chain-sawing wood, packaging 31 large bags of leaves for disposal, loading trucks - backload of tasks I finally could do only on those days because a friend turned up with the equipment to rid the place of a year of accumulated woodstock. Same Friday. I'll do it though, just remind me if I haven'ìt by Sunday night.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:01, 10 July 2014 (UTC) == User reported me == Hi Nishidani.... Just letting you know :) user Gunrpks reported me for "reverting" his editorial wars on your article concerning the war in the middle east. I am a new user and have never reported some one before but I will try to report him as well. --[[User:علي سمسم|علي سمسم]] ([[User talk:علي سمسم|talk]]) 12:35, 10 July 2014 (UTC) :I see. I'm afraid you can't enlist people's help, technically. You are new to this place, unlike [[User:Gunrpks]] and, I think, you engaged in an edit-war with him. Your excuse would be unfamiliarity with I/P ARBPIA practices, but any editor should inform himself before hand that edit-warring, even in a 'just cause' sends a bad signal. One must not imitate bad editors. In any case, as you are unfamiliar with these things, I will examine this, if only because I informed that editor that he was violating the 1RR, and he persisted. I refrained from reporting him, but, if my perception is correct about his edits, it is certainly odd that he should report you. That would mean he risks WP:Boomerang, when all of the evidence is examined. In any case, I would advise you not to report him, it is a bad practice, esp. by newbies, to use this. It looks like playing tactical games to out an 'adversary'. Be patience, calm, succinct, in your reply, and if you check the evidence and find you have made an error, apologize. Above all, do not transform your reply into a long screed. Trust administrators to see into it. They have better eyes than most of us, most of the time.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:07, 10 July 2014 (UTC) Thank you :)--[[User:علي سمسم|علي سمسم]] ([[User talk:علي سمسم|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2014 (UTC) :It would be wise to withdraw your complaint. You made an error, since it was not [[User:Gunrpks]] who reported you but [[User:Shrike]]. I have already noted in his complaint the unsatisfactoriness of his report, and you would do well therefore to withdraw your complaint, and allow admiistrators to examine the whole set of diffs for the relevant pages and make up their own minds. Edit-warring did occur on both sides, and they must evaluate from your respective records what to do in each case.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:57, 10 July 2014 (UTC) == Nomination of [[:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel]] for deletion == <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]]. The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel ]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> [[User:AlanS|AlanS]] ([[User talk:AlanS|talk]]) 14:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC) == A cup of tea for you! == {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg|120px]] |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I find it chills me more than coffee! I think we can work well together, because of, more than despite, our differing POVs. I think most editors misuse or fail to grasp the positives of that dynamic, in many contentious areas. Cheers :) [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 00:22, 12 July 2014 (UTC) |} :Thanks, gratefully accepted. Nicely designed cup, though I prefer a mug, because the latter makes me think of myself.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:30, 12 July 2014 (UTC) ::Ditto :). With respect, [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 02:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC) == Thanks lads for riding shotgun on this page, (NSH001, Sean.hoyland, Sjö and Yunshui) == But now that I see what the removed 150 odd attacks by this Nishidumbass sockster wrote, I wonder at the puerile lack of an ability to connect one's thoughts to real history. Willing death on others in order to defend one's 'ethnic vitalism' is of course a Nazi cast of mind, and therefore, ''ipso facto'' unacceptable for anyone with the genocide of WW2 still vivid in recall. Hitler once said:’ We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew.' Manfred Henningsen, ‘The Politics of Purity and Exclusion,’ Björn H. Jernudd, Michael J. Shapiro (eds.), [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=GfdsXwTT6fcC&pg=PA48 ''The Politics of Language Purism,''] Mouton de Gruyter ‎1989 pp.31-52 p.48 Same pathology in the sock who thinks eliminating Christians, Europeans, Arabs and wikipedia will somehow secure the survival of Israel. Even if that happened I would survive, I guess, being a pagan, and only 'European' by adoption. Then again, if wikipedia was killed off, I might just, qua Nishidani, croak with it! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:34, 14 July 2014 (UTC) :Sjö! tack så mycket ::''Strömkarlen spelar, ::''Sorgerna delar ::''Vakan kring berg och dal.'' :雲水先生,谢 谢 你 的 帮 助. ::喜見行脚人 ::恥茶無兩杯 [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:19, 14 July 2014 (UTC) :::That's very elegant - a pleasure to assist someone of a poetic bent. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Yunshui|<sup style="font-size:90%">雲</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|<sub style="font-size:90%">水</sub>]] 10:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC) ::::No poetic bent, but a bent for what poets write, reading which keeps me sane when editing in here. The merits of elegance lie elsewhere, I confess. I'd been reading about [[Ladakh]] recently, while engaged in a AfD discussion on Nepal, and saw those elegant verses by a Chinese visitor to that wonderful place. Then someone offered me a cup of tea (see above), and I thought of [[tsampa]], and when I saw the 雲 in your handle I thought of the [[Tümed]], and 水, water, by an uncanny coincidence, clicked with the other admin's handle ''Sjö'', which in Swedish means 'lake' and both of you had rid my page of a [[Neck (water spirit)|Strömkarl]], who tries to drown people (here by inundating the page with racist hogwash). Thanks again.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:54, 14 July 2014 (UTC) [[Image:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=Stop icon]] Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]. '''Being involved in an edit war can result in your being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. ==Wikipedia edit warring noticeboard== Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring]] regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit warring]][[User:Tritomex|Tritomex]] ([[User talk:Tritomex|talk]]) 11:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC)'
New page wikitext, after the edit (new_wikitext)
'{{pp-vandalism|expiry=21 July 2014|small=yes}} {{oldmfdfull|date=October 9, 2010|result=keep|votepage=User talk:Nishidani}} {{retired|emeritus editor}} {{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=./Index|mask=/Archive <#>|leading_zeros=0|indexhere=yes|template=User:Nishidani/archive indexing format}} {{archives|search=yes|index=/Index}} {{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}} |maxarchivesize = 250K |counter = 17 |minthreadsleft = 20 |minthreadstoarchive = 2 |algo = old(180d) |archive = User talk:Nishidani/Archive %(counter)d }} {{bots|deny=DPL bot}} {{NoBracketBot}} =='''The West Bank/Judea and Samaria Problem''' == {{User:Nishidani/JS}} == [[Leonardo Sciascia|A futura memoria (se la memoria ha un futuro)]] == [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Yambaram:Incivility.2C_slurs_and_accusations_of_antisemitism User:Yambaram:Incivility, slurs and accusations of antisemitism] All that was asked, was answered, fairly, simply and neatly.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:35, 18 January 2014 (UTC) :It's nice to see things work right over there for once. It didn't look like it was trending that way. I'm sorry you had to go through it. It reminded me of this by Emily: ::To fight aloud is very brave, ::But gallanter, I know, ::Who charge within the bosom, ::The cavalry of woe. ::Who win, and nations do not see, ::Who fall, and none observe, ::Whose dying eyes no country ::Regards with patriot love. &mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 15:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Alf. Wow! Just in 'Patriot love' alone, the sinister use of amphibology to promote a popular conceit only to mock it to bits by making the word it defines, patriotism's antithesis 'love', show the vacuity of the epithet, is magnificent. It effortlessly synthesizes [[Elegy in a Country Churchyard]], while going beyond its paternalistic sentimentalism. Because it made me think of a rush of things, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Habit_of_Perfection ''The Habit of Perfection'']'s second stanza, Tennyson's [[The Charge of the Light Brigade]] (to which also it must be a conscious and sharp riposte) Horace's cant of [[Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori|''dulcet decorest . .'']] which [[Wilfred Owen]] so savagely and briliantly lampooned, and both Rimbaud's [[fr:wiki|Le dormeur du val]] and Lermontov's [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=WnqzRcx0OZ4C&pg=PA205 Valerik],([[Valerik (poem)|''Val'' in Valerik]] anticipating uncannily ''val'' in Rimbaud (doesn't appear to be translated but there's a description [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=ey_OhnEBOzgC&pg=PA100 here]), wih further analogies even down to the eyes of the dying soldier) which of course reminded me I should do more edits to [[Imam Shamil]]. A very good afternoon: decent closure to a smear campaign, a long conversation with a mystic, and your clever use of a poem I don't remember to cap things with a subtle message while offering a gift of poetic genius. Even the [[Knödel|canederli]] whose scent is now wafting up into the study from the hearth will take a back seat to evening thoughts of E.D. Thanks indeed.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:38, 18 January 2014 (UTC) ==Hello== Hello, I'm Anup. I was just moving by recent changes. Thought I would leave you a msg requesting you to remove <nowiki>{{retired|emeritus editor}}</nowiki> template from your talk page. Welcome back to Wikipedia. Cheers! [[User:Anupmehra|<font color="red">Anup</font>]][[User talk:Anupmehra|<font color="saffron">Mehra</font>]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Anupmehra|✈]]</sup> 11:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC) ::The second sentence is ungrammatical. I do not know what 'msg' refers to. Emeritus means retired but still active. So your request is pointless and I'm sorry but I must disoblige you. It's my page, and you should worry about its innocuousness.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:16, 27 January 2014 (UTC) == Question == Nishidani, on the Talk-page of the [[Gospel of Matthew]] you wrote: "...the importance for some Church theologians of establishing a Hebrew precedence in an environment where both Jewish and Christians competed for converts vigorously, '''where rabbinic hostility to Yeshua''' and ecclesiastical suppression of variant traditions '''deleted much of the then available evidence'''." Can you recite any historical documents attesting to this fact? It seems more likely to me that the passages quoted by Jerome, Eusebius, Origen, Irenaeus and Epiphanius from the original Gospel of Matthew (which was written in the Aramaic language and in Hebrew characters), and which Jerome had seen in the Library of Caesarea, is proof that the original text was not tampered with. It simply did not contain the genealogical record that now appears in the canonical text of Matthew (a later interpolation). Some think that these contradictory genealogical records in Matthew and Luke were added in order to counter the claim that Jesus may have been born of illegitimate birth. '''According to Epiphanius''' (''Anacephalaiosis'' 13.1): "The beginning of the Gospel among them reads: ''It happened in the days of Herod the king of Judea (at a time when Caiaphas was high priest) that a certain John came, baptizing the baptism of conversion in the river Jordan. Of him it is said that he was from the family of Aaron the priest, the son of Zacharias and Elisabeth. And all went out to him. […] It happened that John baptized and the Pharisees went out to him and were baptized and all Jerusalem. And John was dressed in a mantle of camel's hair and a leather belt was round his waist. And his food was, it is said, wild honey, of which the taste was that of manna, like cakes in olive oil''.” It is worthy to note that the style of this original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew was similar in style to an earlier MS, ''viz''., the Aramaic '''''Scroll of Antiochus''''', whose introduction is strikingly similar to the Aramaic Gospel of Matthew, as if Matthew tried to emulate the style of the former.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 12:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ::David, the above is massively confused, if only because in English you are saying that Jerome, Eusebius, Origen, Irenaeus and Epiphanius quoted from the original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew. They didn't. ::Consulting primary texts is important. But we can only do so through secondary sources, since primary sources have all sorts of disputes surrounding them. You are careless in your use of both primary and secondary sources: the Anacephalaiosis is a recapitulation of Epiphanius's ''Panarion'', itself a very confusing source, and is not by Epiphanius. ::'the style of this original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew'. How did you get to that conclusion? If we lack the 'original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew' how can we say what style it was written in? See? ::All ancient Christian testimonies agree that Yeshua died and was resurrected. That doesn't make it a fact. Many of the foundational stories in Genesis come from Ugaritic and Akkadian fairy-tales. That doesn't mean that the authors were ''translating'' from the originals in those languages. These methodological considerations are very elementary, and I can see no sign of a sensitivity to them. Antiquity was mainly an oral-transmission world, based also on rote memorization which, in bilingual speakers meant the tales were rewoven according to the audience's primary language. I don't care one way another about this. It is all speculative and unverifiable except if a rubbish dump in Egypt throws up evidence. The only thing that is important is to get secondary RS materials properly marshalled and paraphrased. ::The ''facts'' I refer to and which you quote are common in the secondary historical literature. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:26, 13 February 2014 (UTC) :::Nishidani, you asked me: "How did you get to that conclusion [about its style]? If we lack the 'original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew' how can we say what style it was written in?" The answer is quite simple, Nishidani. I study Talmud (both, the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmud), which texts are written in Aramaic, just as Jews have always written their religious works and novellae. The Palestinian Talmud is written in the dialect spoken by Jesus and it is, therefore, quite easy to reconstruct the original text of the Hebrew/Aramaic Gospel of Matthew based on Epiphanius' record in Greek. I have made a preliminary translation back into the spoken Aramaic of the time, and, surprisingly, it is strikingly similar to the Aramaic "'''Scroll of Antiochus'''" which I also have in my private library. The "Scroll of Antiochus" begins in this way: "It happened in the days of Antiochus, the king of Grecia, a king who was great and strong and potent in his dominion, and to whom all kings gave homage, etc." The words in Judeo-Aramaic are: והוה ביומי אנטיוכס מלכא דיון, מלך רב ותקיף הוה וחסין בשלטנותיה וכל מלכיא ישתמעון ליה. You see, in the original Aramaic of the Gospel of Matthew (as quoted by Epiphanius ibid.) the wording would have been quite similar: והוה ביומי הורדוס מלכא דיהוד , etc. :::As for your reluctance to rely principally upon primary sources, I can understand that. Still, because of the vast opinions in contemporary literature regarding this subject - often divergent one from the other, it is always a good idea to bear in mind the primary sources upon whose axis our entire debate hinges. For example: Jerome wrote (''Dialogus adversus Pelagianos'', in: Migne, Patr. Lat. 23, Parisiis 1883, III, 2): "In the Gospel 'According to the Hebrews,' '''which was written in the Chaldaic and Syriac language but with Hebrew letters, and is used up to the present day by the Nazoraeans, I mean that according to the Apostles, or, as many maintain, according to Matthew''', which Gospel is also available in the Library of Caesarea, the story runs: 'See, the mother of the Lord and his brother said to him: John the Baptist baptizes for the remission of sins, let us go to be baptized by him, etc." :::Likewise did Jerome write elsewhere: "'''Matthew, also called Levi, an apostle after having been a publican, was the first to compose a gospel of Christ in Judea in Hebrew letters''' and words for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed. '''But who afterwards translated it into Greek is not sufficiently certain'''. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilius the martyr so diligently collected." - Jerome (''On Illustrious Men'').[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 19:59, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ::::'The answer is quite simple, Nishidani. I study Talmud' ::::I might answer that my first degree was in classical Greek, of which the koine is a very simple dialect. One thing one learns in mastering a classical language is that sources are often garbled. Almost all classical sources save one (Dionysius of Halicarnassus) say that the Etruscans emigrated from southwestern Asia Minor. The majority of scholars subscribe to the theory of autochthony. Go figure. Several hundred scholars with a command of Aramaic and Greek disagree with you.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC) :::::I will be willing to challenge any scholar in a debate on these ancient texts, and I am quite confident that I could win such a debate. I have already noticed countless errors with so-called "scholarship." Some try to use a Syriac-dialect to reconstruct the original Aramaic Gospel, but their dialect is NOT the same as Jewish Aramaic of the 1st century CE. Even Babylonian Aramaic differs from Palestinian Aramaic! Ask any Jewish scholar who has studied the Talmud in Israel for more than thirty years. Also, Jews have preserved written records dating back to thousands of years, similar to the Greeks in that regard. The difference, however, being that Jews are more scrupulous in what concerns the accurate rendition and copying of ancient texts. I know because I also worked in Jerusalem as a scribe.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 23:43, 13 February 2014 (UTC) The problem is not to convince oneself, most of us have that fateful flaw in our characters: the problem is to convince one's peers that 'everyone is out of step but me, Johnny', to adopt my mother's ancient admonition for eccentric ideas. Pilpul's methods, however intricate, are generally not those of [[historical criticism]] and [[textual analysis]]. Formal source analysis is what you lack: I can see it in the way you marshal evidence. *'The Palestinian Talmud is written in the dialect spoken by Jesus' (actually it is written in Late Western Aramaic (i.e. post 200 CE, which has three varieties Jewish Palestinian, Christian Palestinian and Samaritan Palestinian dialects). I am very familiar with two dialects with a written history, and each of them has changed drastically over 200 years. ::Having studied the Aramaic of the Palestinian Talmud, it is quite conclusive that the style and dialect were common in Galilee in the 1st century CE. The shortening of proper names (e.g. Yuda instead of Yehudah, Yashua instead of Yehoshua, etc.) are just a few examples of this. The Aramaic in Israel may have also been used by Samaritans and Christians, but this is irrelevant, since the surviving Aramaic texts of the Palestinian Talmud are all quintessential Jewish modes of speech in the Land of Israel at that time.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 17:06, 15 February 2014 (UTC) *Jerome write elsewhere: "'''Matthew, also called Levi, an apostle after having been a publican, was the first to compose a gospel of Christ in Judea in Hebrew letters''' :I.e.,Jerome thinks the Gospel of Matthew was written by a direct disciple who knew Jesus, a provincial tax-collector who must have been born around I-2 CE, who set down his impressions in Aramaic sometime after 33CE. It follows that Matthew is the first gospel: that Mark, whom the same Papias identifies as Peter's interpreter, and hence a Greek-speaking intimate of the first apostle, didn't influence Matthew, but Matthew Mark, though every indication tells us the contrary is '''probably''' the case (the nativity stories arose after Mark, probably in response to Jewish criticisms that Yehoshua could not be the messiah because his birth data as a Nazarene were not consonant with biblical prophecies about the Davidic line, hence the 'trip to Bethlehem', etc); that typical phrases like ἕως τῆς σήμερον at Matt:27:8 and elsewhere, suggest strongly several decades had passed from the time of Yehoshua to Matthew's writing; That therefore characteristic stock phrases typical of Matthew's style, though identical to those favoured by [[Johanan ben Zakai|Joachanan ben Zakai who would have been 3 years old at the traditional date for Yehoshua's death]], for one, who would customarily use them after 70 CE are either coincidences or signs that JbZ picked them up from Matthew, rather than a Matthew writing in the 70s and 80s picked them up from JbZ, i.e. like that from Hosea 6:6 כִּ֛יחֶ֥סֶדחָפַ֖צְתִּיוְלֹא־זָ֑בַח = Ἔλεος θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν Matt.9:13;12:7 . One could multiply like a tumbling block of domino pieces sprawling for miles the problematical consequences for the thesis you push, a thesis based on an ignorance, friend, of the standard techniques of source criticism developed over the last 200 years. Accumulation of memes, of repeated statements with their variations in ancient texts, does not constitute an argument, as you and Ret.Prof think. It is only evidence for a failure to understand the methodology of modern scholarship. :For thousands of years everything agreed [[Homer]] wrote the Iliad and Odyssey. All primary sources said so. The thesis crumbled when formal analysis showed there was no such single author behind the text. [[August Fick]] was convinced Homer as we have it went back to a core in the [[Aeolic dialect]], and recomposed it according to that dialect. No one was convinced he'd got to the 'real' Homer, any more than Matthew was necessarily a single author as opposed to the final editor of a text part of whose logia or sayings were later said to have been collected by a certain Matthew. What you are doing is ''Fisking'' wikipedia, which is forbidden. Publish your results in a reliable academic press, and you may just get past the rules. Good luck! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:28, 14 February 2014 (UTC) == Thank == you! But [[User:Shirt58/Historical and alternative views of Gospel of Matthew|some people]] don't think so. I'll be so bold as to predict the outcome of that matter will be: "We told you so". --[[User:Shirt58|Shirt58]] ([[User talk:Shirt58|talk]]) 13:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ==Hi== Greetings, does your (wide) field of expertise extend to Jewish Christianity? Supposed Hebrew Gospels and so forth? [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 15:02, 14 February 2014 (UTC) :I've read about it for half a century fairly extensively, but have no pretensions to expertise. My only feeling is that nothing can be known, most of what is said is a POV, and that, for wikipedia at least, we have no other option that to write article according to strict criteria of WP:RS, WP:Due, making them reflect the scholarly consensus, where ascertainable, while allowing leeway for nuancing dissent positions when they are not notably eccentric or fringe. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:21, 14 February 2014 (UTC) ::That's exactly what we need. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 17:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC) == Reference Errors on 17 February == [[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|35px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]]. 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Thanks, <!-- User:ReferenceBot/inform -->[[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]] ([[User talk:ReferenceBot|talk]]) 00:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC) :If you can automatically detect an error, you can automatically fix it, bothead.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:17, 18 February 2014 (UTC) == Belated MC == more than one year and one month late old chap. better late than never but not if all you are going to do is pen some tired cliches lacking accents (with a weak pun as a sorry bone to chew on). i'm afraid that my grey matter is not what it used to be after firing out a couple of life projects and holding on for dear life lest i lose track of one of these celestially bound bodies whose adventures never cease to amaze me. take care and if some cells should miraculously regenerate with time, i will see you again soon. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 20:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC) ::I began to worry about the symptomology suggested by the pleonasm of ''tired'' clichés, until I realized as per some thread above, that the clichés in question must be pneumatically endowed ('tire-d', no gross vulgarity intended) and keep running by sheer inertial momentum. Then of course I thought of [[pun|Walter Redfern]]'s doughty labours on the subject. I'm a re-tired cliché, as is most of the world, keeping faith with [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+1:9&version=NKJV the wisdom of Ecclesiasticus]. Don't worry: cells regenerate. Unfortunately, those ([[Abu Ghraib]], [[Camp 1391]]'s cells etc. ) of the degenerate hegemons, under whose imperial sway we are expected to accommodate ourselves, grow apace as well, and the grey that matters ([http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EQ05WYmuCz0C&pg=PA35 Graham Greene]) is whitewashed by the manichaistic simpletons who would reduce all the niceties of perception into a duelling chess-match of simplistic dualisms. There! I've matched your ellipticism, and my Sunday morning exercise in rhetoric is done! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:14, 23 February 2014 (UTC) == Wording == Hi. You are correct on what you wrote in your edit summary [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli%E2%80%93Arab_conflict_in_Hebron&diff=597077300&oldid=597075900 here]. But I think the wording was used for the whole part, not only that about the occupation. However, all of the points there, except for collective punishment, is undisputed. So maybe it is better to have it like it is now but change to "and what they describe as collective punishment". Any thoughts? --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 20:03, 25 February 2014 (UTC) :Hi. Well, collective punishment is a subset of 'military occupation' (which no one doubts: it is surrounded on all sides: a few days ago a major clash occurred when Palestinians tried to protest their lack of access to their businesses and residences on Shuhada Street). I always prefer the inclusive term: put the subterm in and someone will ask for a specific source on 'collective punishment' at Hebron. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::I take your notes seriously enough to reexamine my own quick reply. The result is I've done an extensive preliminary edit there, with links to several books that would be useful as background. For the moment I'm busy, but I hope the edit wasn't messy and that the passage you mention is improved. One link was broken and had to be replaced. Regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :::Just as a reminder how absurdly ticklish otherwise normal descriptive terminology can appear to some. A Palestinian posted [http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/26/israels-bubble-of-denial/ some days back] a note on his Facebook page about living 'under occupation'. The Israeli police hauled in him for an interrogation, since this was evidence for 'incitement', i.e. a crime of hatred. Using even internationally accepted legal terminology is now interpreted in some quarters as an incitement to race hatred. Phew![[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :: True but when it was separated as before, I think it gives another view. You have formulated it great now. There was some problem with the formatting but I have corrected it now. :: I read about the protests and actually thought to add it here but other things took up my time. I had not read about the other case, which is an astonishing one. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 20:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC) == Archiving == Nishidani, I've now set up automatic archiving for this enormous talk page of yours. It will '''never''' archive the "The West Bank/Judea and Samaria Problem" section at the top of this page. Some details: * I've given you a nice fat archive size of 250K. That should put off for a while the evil day when you run out of archives. * I've set it to keep at least 20 threads on this page, and to keep at least the most recent 180 days of discussion. In other words, the archiving bot will not be too aggressive. * You can tweak these parameters yourself by editing the top bit of this page (but I think they're reasonable). * It is possible to prevent, or just delay, the archiving of any specific section. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MiszaBot/Archive_HowTo#Delaying_or_preventing_archiving_of_particular_threads here], or drop a note on my talk page. The archiving bot will not bother you with any notifications that it's done its work (none of my doing, that's just how the bot is set up). So don't be surprised when you find bits of your talk page have disappeared down the archive plug hole. And with a bit of luck, neither of us should have to worry any more (at least, not for a few years) about archiving this page. Regards, --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 12:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :Well, the quiet performer (genius) comes to my aid once more. Thanks mate. I was thinking of you the other day while reading [[Richard Flanagan]]' s recent novel ''The Narrow Road to the Deep North,'' which I venture to suggest as a minute token of thanks you might profitably read (in memoriam, etc.) Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::Flanagan is a lucky man, at least his father talked to him. I never had any sense of love or affection from my father; I think in those days it was the duty and obligation of a macho male to support his wife and children, which he did do, but nothing beyond that. He was so badly affected psychologically by the war that he was an extremely difficult man to live with. I just mostly experienced criticism, with outbursts of fearsome rage from time to time, upsetting everyone in sight, especially my poor mother. It tends to inhibit conversation when you feel you're treading on eggshells all the time, never quite knowing when something might trigger an outburst. ::I think I'll leave the book for a while. I did read a few books by survivors after my father died, which left me feeling very depressed (not immediately after - I had my hands full between a demanding job and the large amount of work needed to wind up my father's estate, mostly hindered rather than helped by the Scottish solicitors, who charged the usual outrageous monopoly fee). In very belated reply to a query of yours a long time ago – although he said almost nothing about the war, I do know that he was in the RAF, not the army, and that he rose to the exalted rank of corporal before he was captured. Regards --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 15:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :Flanagan was lucky, and the exception (another was our family tailor, who went through the camps and yeet managed to retain a deep urbane serenity), and my brother's close woman friend, whose grandmother survived Auschwitz, and was subject to the kind of rage your father felt -her grandchild, raised by the woman, managed to survive her own childhood to become one of the most extraordinarily empathetic, helpful persons I've ever met. Most, paralleling Holocaust survivors, Jews and Gypsies alike, could never bear to speak of what they experienced. Without belabouring the point perhaps you might catch the film just done on [[Eric Lomax]] [[The Railway Man (film)|The Railway Man]]. I heard some months ago a very insightful interview with his widow [http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/the-railway-man/5102146 here]. Lomax, as an officer, it should be added, was luckier than yours (since as a corporal he wasn't of officer rank). In his memoirs, [[Weary Dunlop]] has pretty damning things to say about the officer class among the POW ranks.(I too had to wrest our estate from lawyers who refused to settle it because of the lucrative income they earned managing it. Just in time: the lawyer society crashed soon after and brought down hundreds of families in the ensuing bankruptcy.) Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::Lomax's was one of those depressing books. I haven't seen the film, but I did see something on the television quite recently about the film (can't remember which channel it was) and [http://thefriend.org/article/forgiveness-on-the-river-kwai/ this piece] in [[the Friend]] magazine (anything by [[John Lampen]] is well worth reading, BTW). Incidentally, my father never expressed any anger or resentment expliicitly against the Japanese; occasionally, when the subject of stammering came up, he would joke, "the Japanese cured me of my stammer". On the subject of damning remarks, my father was scathing about two groups of men he encountered in his career at ICI: the public school old boy network and arts graduates. So you'd probably have gotten it with both barrels! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 17:42, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :::One Changi POW I knew came back as a cheer-leader for Japan, and couldn't wait for the day they would triumph as a superpower! My father told me, when I started to learn the language, that the most racist anti-Japanese soldiers in his club tended to be pen-pushers who'd never actually fought in the Pacific War, and just swaggered with antipathy as they bullied their way through the country when it was occupied. My uncle, who had fought them, agreed. Your dad perhaps hated Arts Graduates because they stocked the POW uni courses, teaching men obscure subjects like Sanskrit, Malay, Greek history, Latin prose etc. to distract them from thoughts of starvation. Well my reading suggestions were rather inappropriate. It's just that from age 6, I found books enabled me to read myself out of a barrage of put-downs and humiliations - they taught you to disinvest in yourself sufficiently to see the trouble or pain behind the insult. Not much consolation if one missed out on a fundamental, like having a father. I've often noted, initially with surprise, that exceptionally good fathers suffered from bad parentage, and coped by reversing, rather than, as is the class norm, repeating the pattern. Cheers, mate, and thanks.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::::On arts graduates, I doubt it. He said he was shocked, when he got to university after the war, how little work the arts students had to do compared to the scientists (so he might have let you off if you were putting in 12 hours a day in the uni library). Then you have to remember that ICI was a science- and engineering-based company, and he was infuriated by arts graduates being promoted to positions where they didn't have a clue about what they were managing. Similarly he thought the ex-public school types tended to get promoted beyond their ability. On the other hand, he did have a high regard for [[Paul Chambers (industrialist)|Paul Chambers]], an ex-public school boy and the first non-scientist to be head of ICI. It's partly why I went for the science courses at school (my choice, not his), plus I could see that my father, as a scientist, was earning a lot more money than most of the other kids' dads. In any case I just enjoyed doing maths and science! The point you make about seeing the pain (or whatever) behind the insult (or indeed, any offence) is true indeed. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 19:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC) == Almost a first == [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent&diff=597415887&oldid=597407579 This] is a first indeed. We did come to some good compromises, but I don't think we ever agreed on anything before. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 00:57, 28 February 2014 (UTC) :Well, I'm not surprised. You do understand the force of rational arguments - that's been clear to me for years. I don't care whether editors' private opinions clash with my own, as long as there is room for reasonable compromises, based on honest attention to what one's interlocutor is saying, and a decent respect for the rules in this madhouse. Cheers. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC) == Khazar theory of Ashkenazi ancestry == Hi - with this edit[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khazar_theory_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry&diff=next&oldid=590505612] I'm guessing that you moved material from another article but didn't put a link to that article in your edit summary (that needs to be fixed with a dummy edit to avoid copyvio). My problem is that you didn't bring over the references, so we have Brook 2009 and Brook 2010 without a clue as to what these are. I've just reverted someone who replaced one of those with a website (which at least was selling his book among others, so some relevance). Can you please fix this? Thanks. And, um, Sheba? [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 15:44, 1 March 2014 (UTC) ::Mea culpa on all counts. I've done part of your request. What's the 'copyvio' in copying one's own wiki work from one page to another. Five months late on Sheba, sheba! (/I don't know if any of your dialects uses sheeba in the sense of 'cripes, jeepers, creepers') Work load. I'm doing a long analysis of an obscure oriental book. Will get to it when time allows, unless infarction intervenes. Thanks for the heads-up, Doug, as youngsters here write.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) :::If it's all yours, I guess that's ok, I don't recall our guidelines mentioning what we do in that case. I tend to say something in the edit summary but sometimes forget when I'm copying my own text. I hope your mention of infarction isn't a medical concern. Nope, never heard sheeba used that way. But the US is a huge place, loads of phrases that are only used on one locality, ditto on a smaller basis the UK, the only 2 English speaking countries I know well. Don't worry about Sheba. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 19:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) == Reticent to... == Ah, Nishidani, this time I must disagree. "Reticent to" is attested in English since 1875 according to the OED: <blockquote> 2. Reluctant to perform a particular action; hesitant, disinclined. Chiefly with about, or to do something.<br> <small> 1875 Rep. Sel. Comm. Condition of South (43rd U.S. Congr. 2 Sess.) 15 The State registrar was just as reticent to give us information.<br> 1932 Daily Capital News & Post Tribune (Jefferson City, Missouri) 14 Feb. 11 a/6 They were reticent about leaving it [sc. home].<br> 1948 Jrnl. Amer. Folklore 61 29 Dreams, promptings of the spirit, and peep-stones have all combined to make the reticent girl give in to the proposals of a polygamous suitor.<br> 1959 Times 8 Oct. 13 Having..informed my employer of my impending call-up, he is naturally reticent to improve my position.<br> 2008 F. Kellerman Mercedes Coffin xxxviii. 311 She knows he'd be reticent to hire a lawyer to defend her?<br> </small> </blockquote> It seems to have begun in America, though, but did make it into The Times by 1959. In all other aspects of the discussion we concur, of course.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 17:31, 1 March 2014 (UTC) ::Well, screwmecadaverous, Alf, yu've cort me by the short and curlies, ...no!fuckit! ::'''Reticent''' :::*'reserved, disinclined to speak freely; given to silence or concealment.'J.A.Simpson, E.S.C. Weiner (eds), [[Oxford English Dictionary]],2nd ed. 1989, Clarendon Press, Oxford vol.XIII,p.777 col.2 will admit of no example of 'reticent' in the sense of 'reluctant'. So, stuff that up ya septic tank pipe and smoke it:) Doug's just given me some grief on the Khazar page, and I need a feed and a bottle of Barolo before I come to my senses! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) == Passive voice == You may find this of interest. In the mid-1980s, when I worked at Al-Fajr Newspaper, a friend of mine was teaching English in a village in the West Bank. She wanted to do a lesson on active and passive voice, and for this purpose she photocopied reports of the same clashes between Palestinians and Israeli forces, as published in both the Jerusalem Post and Al-Fajr English Weekly. Where the JP routinely reported that "x Palestinians were injured", "y houses were demolished", AF reported that "Israeli forces injured x Palestinians, destroyed y homes". It's a lesson her pupils never forgot! Happy weekend. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 21:35, 7 March 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Roland. 'Old' newspaper hands know these tricks, and it's a pity much of it appears to be lost on contemporary readers. Actually, I don't mind the passive voice in historical narrative. It's not uncommon, but there's no reason why one can't accompany it with the instrumental ''by''. 'z Palestinians were injured by Israeli forces'. [[Karl Kraus (writer)|Karl Kraus]] attributed the disasters of Shanghai, and much of WW1, to slipshod journalism with its endemic solecisms, wrote most of the nearly 1000 issues of Die Fackel to hammer away on this point: that the sanity of reality is dependent on extremely precise respect for grammar and usage (pity the poor bugger thought it necessary to convert to Catholicism: it gave his critique, in crucial moments, like his attack on Herzl, an antisemitic edge. He never had the good fortune to listen to Eric Hobsbawm's mother's advice to her son on identity, which I'm sure you're familiar with). Have a good one yourself, Roland. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:41, 7 March 2014 (UTC) ::And I wonder what Hobsbawm's mother would have said to the eminent and learned saxophone player... <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 23:45, 7 March 2014 (UTC) :::Ha!) In any case, Eric Hobsbawm, [http://books.google.it/books?id=y2gyK5PxNB8C&pg=PA24 ''Interesting Times,''] p.24 (read on through to 25). [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:56, 8 March 2014 (UTC) == Your sermon a performative demonstration of your point == ...because it could have been preached equally well on Saturday morning as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=598901811 on Sunday]. Nicely done.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 23:06, 9 March 2014 (UTC) == Thank you == {| style="border: 1px solid #999999; background-color: #FFFFFF}; width:100%;" |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Socratic Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Socratic Barnstar.png|100px]]}} |rowspan="2" | |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#9D741A; font-family:Comic Sans MS, Arial, Helvetica;" | '''The Socratic Barnstar''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your wisdom in the analysis of the mess that was the Gilabrand AE case, and the wisdom that your comments continue to show. The Israel-Palestine area needs more editors like you. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 17:56, 10 March 2014 (UTC) |} :That's deeply appreciated. But your last edit has a summary 'sleep deprived' (the spelling 'derpived' proves the truth of it) and I worry that this might be misread against you, however. Malice or reading between the lines for non-existent fine print to prove an unempirical apriori suspicion, is commonplace in the I/P area, and bad blood is easy to stir at the slightest appearance of administrative appreciation. Admins must, of necessity, keep all us us at an arm's distance (I wanted to write 'yard' to increment the distance between us peons and the neutral board of directors and admins, but didn't because it was the standard term in Shakespeare's day, in the KJB, and current till Dickens' time, for penis!). My work there was not so much about Gilabrand: I have a long term scepticism about the 'readability' of diffs on a subject as evidence for the court. Unless one knows the context, they can prove very very tricky. Though it risks [[WP:TLDR]], we peons in such cases should assist arbs by doing the legwork and contextualizing each diff in an evidence report, because not to do so, is to assume they capture what is at stake. It's particularly important in sensitive areas. To expect admins, who can't be familiar with every topic area, to rake through subtle sequences and figure what is going on, is to expect inhumane energies, and demand that they give up their off-wiki lives. Thanks, in any case, and happy somnia! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:17, 10 March 2014 (UTC) == Amalek edit you made == "Armenians as Amalekites: Fixing an horrendous confusion of displaced sourcing, WP:OR. If you edit in anything, please follow standard principles.". This was not my work. I restored material a new editor deleted without cause or comment. The critique is meant for the prior editor that added that material. [[User:Alatari|Alatari]] ([[User talk:Alatari|talk]]) 15:41, 11 March 2014 (UTC) :Sorry for any confusion there. You were quite right to restore that material, which should never have been removed. My edit summary referred to whoever did the original compilation. Thanks, and cheers.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC) ::You are amazingly fast at reorganizing that to a better form. Your page says you retired. You are addicted... Thanks for all the work you've put in. [[User:Alatari|Alatari]] ([[User talk:Alatari|talk]]) 16:35, 11 March 2014 (UTC) == 1517 pogroms == Hi, You participated to a discussion on that article. A brief opinion would be welcome [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:1517_Safed_pogrom here]. [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 17:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC) :Thank you. I forgot about the word opinion... I will try to take care of this !!! [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 19:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC) == Talkback == {{Talkback|Al Ameer son|mayor/governor}} {{Talkback|Al Ameer son|mayor/governor}} <div style="background-color: #BBDDFF; border:1px solid #4169E1; padding:6px 4px"><!-- --> [[File:Nuvola apps edu languages.svg|left|18px]] Hello, Nishidani. You have '''new messages''' at [[User talk:Ojh2|Ojh2's talk page]]. <small>--09:41, 18 May 2014 (UTC)</small></div>{{z1}}<!-- Template:Talkbacktiny --> == Mongoloid Khazars == Although you were right to remove that silly passage about Khazars being more mongoloid in a certain region, I'd like to bring your attention to [http://books.google.ca/books?id=hEuIveNl9kcC&q=mongoloid#v=onepage&q=mongoloid&f=false this]. Notice the beginning of page 4. [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 23:19, 25 April 2014 (UTC) :Thanks for that note. I've added a note re skulls, as you will see.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:23, 26 April 2014 (UTC) ==Things to be done/Notes to self (or what pieces are left of that hypothetical entity== *Huldra trans [[Talk:Bardala‎]] *[[Sabah]] as per promise to Doug Weller *[http://books.google.com/books?id=GkbzYoZtaJMC&pg=PA276 Abu Iyad] as per promise to Al Ameer *[[The Ashkenazi Jews/Khazarian origins theory]] *[[Werner Muensterberger]] * 中里介山 and also his 大菩薩峠, which have no wiki article. ('to call him Dickensian would be utterly inadequate, to call Dickens "Kaizanian" would be to flatter him greatly' [[William E. Naff]], ''The Kiso Road: The Life and Times of Shimazaki Tōson,'' University of Hawai'i Press, 2011 p.4.) [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC) (2)'To call Dickens "Kaizanian" would be an over-statement of his considerable gift for for creating memorable characters, while to call Kaizan "Dickensian" would be a seriously misleading understatement. This richness became all the more impressive when set against the national drive towards human standardization.' ibid. p.430 To be kept close to the bottom of this page because I forget the agenda as time scurries on [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC) **e.g.<ref="Horowitz" />{{rp|122-3}} [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:20, 11 March 2014 (UTC) == Systemic bias or systemic angst == We use only mainstream newspaper sources for the I/P area updates. A half a day ago, Kerry touched on the risks Israel ran of becoming an apartheid state unless progress was made in serious peace talks. Well, in fifteen hours, [[Al Jazeera]] noted it almost immediately, as did the [[Jerusalem Post]], [[The Times of Israel]] and [[Front Page Magazine]]; it took a mere 5 for [[Haaretz]] to note the fact; [[Ynet]] registered the news after 7 hours. The NYTs is still twiddling its thumbs, trying to work out how to spin this, on its not-yet-breaking news breaking news page. On the other hand it has the latest updates on sanctions against Russia, and was first off the block to shout that 'Egypt Sentences More Than 680 to Death'. On important I/P information, every dot and comma must be cross-checked, every stylistic nuance, every detail in the ostensible troublesome balance sheet must be calculated. In short, why bother?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :Perhaps they are waiting for the inevitable push back and State Department "clarification" before they go to print. To be fair to the NYT, the only mainstream US publication I can see running the story is [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html The Daily Beast] (while all the main European and Israeli media are running it). The other point to note is that it has taken the US government 4 years to acknowledge something that was [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/03/barak-apartheid-palestine-peace stated by the Israeli defence Minister in 2010]. I guess it speaks to the evolving limits of acceptable discourse on the I/P conflict in the US. From what I recall, Chomsky's [[propaganda model]] posits that liberal media like the NYT set the limits of what is acceptable discourse in a society so it is not surprising that they are [http://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/service-agenda-editors.html on the front line of that debate with regards the IP conflict]. [[User:Dlv999|Dlv999]] ([[User talk:Dlv999|talk]]) 15:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks for that, Dlv. I noted it here because these things affect I/P wikiwork, which one hopes is the one global medium that, by its intrinsic logic, rebuffs the idea that reportage need suffer from a tactical incompleteness in coverage. Actually, what is odd is that as opposed to the NYTs articles, which are as dreadful as the negotiating imbalance, (protests couldn't get them to change Jodi Rudoren's statement that the Golan heights was in Israel) the [[New York Review of Books]] consistently carries very strong statements, in the books it reviews and the reviewing editors' comments, on Israel, books, mostly written by the Jewish or Israeli intelligentsia, that cover far more meticulously the hidden or silenced (what the Japanese call 黙殺, [[Mokusatsu|killing by silence]]) dimension, the facts on the ground, historical and contemporary. Clearly, therefore, the daily print version pitches its reportage to Middle American perceptions and desires an 'even-handedly' pro-Israeli spin, whereas the NYRB knows full well that its highly literate subscribers, Jewish or otherwise, are far more informed about the area than what is acceptable in 'public' discourse, and won't take the usual dose of suburban pabula. I can't quite figure out how this dissonance works for any self-respecting journalist at his newsdesk: commercial elements evidently dictate the distinction, but it sits very oddly. All the news that is fit to print is carefully snippeted out in one outlet, and studiously crammed into the other, depending on the constituency. The right hand knows what the left is doing, and vice-versa. Fascinating.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:38, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :::Coverage-wise, perhaps things are changing somewhat as a result of people like [http://www.law.cuny.edu/faculty/directory/shamas.html Diala Shamas] and things like the [http://www.btselem.org/video/cdp_background B'Tselem’s Camera Project]. Citizen journalism with the added bonus of occasionally getting shot, just like real journalists. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 16:45, 28 April 2014 (UTC) ::::True, everything's now covered, but little is still widely reported. While watching the clock to see how long it would take the NYTs to get over the angst and convey the gist of Kerry's remarks, I noted that its most emailed article this week is on Tony Blare's remark that [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/world/europe/britain-blair-speaks-out-on-islamic-extremism.html?src=rechp 'the spread of Islamic extremism “represents the biggest threat to global security of the 21st century.'] Maybe, but in the meantime, dealing with the real world, I emailed him years ago in Jerusalem to see if he could ensure that one more IDF uprooting of a solar-powered electrical grid for a khirbeh where a few hardscrabble farmers south of Hebron live could be reversed. He had been reported as having visited the area. and, after all, he is paid a reported $million bucks as special envoy of the [[Quartet on the Middle East]] to improve communication between the parties. Nothing happened. It's not the sort of practical thing than politicians think sufficiently attention-getting, I guess. Give me the [[Ezra Nawi]]s of this world any day, who merit the Nobel Prize that chap in the White House refuses to bother returning. History is what elites mess with, or mess up: the redemption of modernity is that those who suffer from its consequences can now write what really happens (which of course the elites will never read). Sorry for this blog. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:50, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :::::Well, unless I've missed something, the NYTs wasn't waiting for a State Dep. "clarification" but rather for [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/world/middleeast/kerry-apologizes-for-remark-that-israel-risks-apartheid.html Kerry's inevitable apology] fo saying what every analyst in Israel or elsewhere knows as the logical consequence of indecision.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::* ''The New York Times'' in an instance of being the newspaper of [http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/24/nytu-a24.html false record.] ::::::* [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html Kerry:] "''A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second-class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state.''" Now, as theoretically each state of the two-state solution could practise apartheid, it would be interesting to know how that is going to be prevented; non-Jewish citizens of Israel become citizens of the Palestinian state and vice-versa? Also, it would be interesting to hear Kerry explain what would be so bad about a non-apartheid unitary state which is the state of all its citizens rather than being "the state of the Jewish people." ::::::* [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html Kerry:] ''Kerry also said that at some point, he might unveil his own peace deal and tell both sides to “take it or leave it.”'' Oh right! No marks for guessing whether his plan would be taken or left by either side. ::::::<span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 15:03, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::: I hope that my editing is acceptable here, otherwise, please do not hesitate and delete it. In my opinion, a unitary state cannot succeed. Both sides have bad records concerning minorities. The "[[Price tag policy]]" criminals are repeatedly evading the law enforcement, which is a shame for Israel. Unfortunately the situation is not improving. The poor Israeli election system give the small parties a lot of political force and the voters majority does not have a say. On the other hand, Israelis are looking at the current Syrian war, and would not accept a solution of a unitary state, which will possibly mimick such quarrels. [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 18:06, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Please don't apologize for editing here or on other talk pages. We are all equal before wikilaw, and your rights are those of everyone else. This is not a coterie enclave.The PTP incidents are quite acceptable hazing. Having your land systematically and literally stolen as '(foreign)state land' in contravention of the Geneva Conventions is what is intolerable. But this is not the place to discuss these matters.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::Don't all countries have bad records concerning minorities, with the possible exception of...no, can't think of one. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 18:10, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Now, come on, Sean. Some countries are run by minorities that have bad records concerning majorities but the minorities are treated quite well, being in charge of everything.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 18:15, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Good point! <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::So this isn't about the widespread geographical distribution of records by comedians that make racist jokes about minorities. Nevermind then. It would be a bit hypocritical of me to criticize countries being run by minorities that have bad records concerning majorities because it was that kind of shameful behavior that helped to make the country I was born in rich enough so that eventually, many years later, they could pay for my entire education without it costing me a penny, giving me the freedom to live anywhere I want, while a decolonised African peer had to do what they were told for several years to pay back their government grants. No fair. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 19:55, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::But, unless transfer of nationality or location is being considered, then the two states resulting from the two-state plan would themselves have minority populations. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Should say that I suspect that what is in the pipeline by way of solving Israel's "demographic problem", attempts at turning Jordan into The Palestine State so far having failed, is the creation of a bantustan or two on the minimum territory possible with transfer of citizenship for Israel's non-Jewish population. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 11:12, 30 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::That will never happen. You cannot by an act of parliament strip 20% of the citizenry of their native rights, constitutionally, or before the world, which is ready to ignore most violations of international law, but not a flagrant imposition of apartheid. There has always been a very neat distinction here between what you calculate you can get away with and what you can't. When Obama threw in the towel the other day, remarking:'we haven't seen the political will to actually make tough decisions', he thought he was commenting on the other two parties. He was actually revealing the defect in his, Kerry and American foreign policy: the lack of a political will to make a '''tough''' decision. A juridically fair peace requries more of Israel than it does of the disiecta membra we call Palestine, and that is why there will never be a negotiated settlement, except via an act of treason by the reps of the latter, which would carry the death penalty. So, 5 decades on, one will have one state.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::In this case, depending on how the selling is done and how many countries supporting the Palestinians go through regime changes before an agreement is reached, the answer to what can be got away with will probably be, quite a lot. Israel is facing a "demographic timebomb" and politicians such as Tzipi Livni are urging the necessity of implementing a two-state solution in order to avoid it. How will implementing a two-state solution circumevent the impending demographic timebomb? For it to work, you would have to increase the number of Jewish Israelis eligible to vote in Knesset elections, decrease or slow the rate of growth in the number of non-Jewish Israelis eligible to vote, or both. Implementing a transfer of voting eligibility of non-Jewish Israelis from Israel to the new Palestinian state would help to achieve the latter options. When it comes to international protests, I should think that those who take the homeland view, that Israel is the homeland of the Jews and the new Palestinian state will be the homeland of the Palestinians, are already well down the road to accepting that ethnic Jews will be privileged in Israel (that is, if they're not already there). That would, of course be to implement apartheid in Israel proper, or, if you prefer to give it another name, "separateness". <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:37, 1 May 2014 (UTC) (Hope you'll indulge this comment, which was added after you requested people to stop adding to this thread) ::::::::::Which would be the best solution. The presence of minorities is like a quiet conscience that sits vigilantly in the noisy parliament of that national 'amour-propre' which, otherwise on its own, sounds the death-knell of civility. When Jesus wanted to warn his fellow Jews of the dangers of failing in charity the legend has it he cited the palmary behavior of a Samaritan, the arch-enemy of Judaism. Most of what is great about modern Europe came from its minorities, the most creative being the Jews. And Sean, point taken. But my generation grew up in relatively struggling postwar countries, which could nonetheless afford universal health care and free education to tertiary level, of which you too are a beneficiary. Alf's point was that, nowadays, with the great seismic shift, elites governing western democracies that are tens of times wealthier than they, or our societies were, in earlier decades, now demand that the majority pay through the nose for every service, and cark it if they can't pony up health insurance, while insisting that their failed speculative bets in derivatives be covered by the Federal Bank. In that sense, the elitarian minorities that now are the post-Keynsian default models, insist that governments, almost completely in their pockets, downsize to zero their redistributive functions. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:02, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::: "''attempts at turning Jordan into The Palestine State so far having failed"''. I can understand that the Palestinians want to establish their state between the sea and the Jordan river, and no one has a right to tell them that their country is somewhere else. But how should we call the state of Jordan if [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan#Immigrants_and_refugees "''population of Palestinian origin constitutes about 67 percent of the Kingdom's population."''] ? . It make sense, that after a while, the 2 independent states, Palestine and Jordan , will merge, like the independent state of Texas who merged with the U.S.. <P>- "''You cannot by an act of parliament strip 20% of the citizenry of their native rights,"''. Yes, of course. These people should keep the Israeli citizenship, but what about their newborn babies? there is a precedent of British citizens, that their newborn babies are not inheriting the British citizenship, if the baby is born overseas.(I am not familiar with the details.) <P>- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baqa_al-Gharbiyye#State_of_Israel "''Baqa al-Gharbiyye is separated from its West Bank sister city, Baqa ash-Sharqiyya (or Baqa East) by the Israeli West Bank barrier which in this section coincides with the Green Line.[16] As a result, a concrete wall topped with barbed wire runs through one neighbourhood."'']. Does not it make sense that the border will move such as both Baqa villages will be united within a Palestinian state? [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 20:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::When I wrote about attempts to turn Jordan into the Palestine state, I really had in in mind Jordan-is-Palestine proponents such as Ariel Sharon. For instance, [http://www.fmep.org/reports/special-reports/the-middle-east-in-the-shadow-of-war/sharon-and-jordan this] says: "Prime Minister Sharon's historical views of Jordan are, to say the least, troubling to those who rule in Amman today. How can it be forgotten that for many years Sharon was the most prominent voice in Israel favoring the proposition that "Jordan is Palestine." During Black September he sought unsuccessfully to win the government of Golda Meir to this view, advocating that Israel withdraw its support for King Hussein in his life and death battle against the PLO. In 1982, as minister of defense in the government of Menachem Begin, Sharon's star-crossed strategy in Lebanon included the relocation of Lebanon's Palestinian population, en masse, to Jordan." <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:00, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::: I respect Nishidani wish to end this discussion here. If you wish to, we may continue in your talkpage or in mine. [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 18:32, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Thanks, but it's probably better to get back to building an encyclopedia. And I've realised that a major part of what I wrote above was based on a serious misunderstanding on my part, so I should shut my mouth before I make more of a fool of myself. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 21:30, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::97 years ago, an Imperial power decided to give a European population persecuted by antisemitism territorial rights in Palestine. 90% of the native population disagreed: the majority of religious Jews were horrified. In 2017, some end to this must take place, if decency is to prevail. Israel must accept that its 78% of a land which it only possessed only 6% of in 1948, is a bounteous historical settlement, and a stupendous achievement, where its population thrives in a booming economy with cutting edge science and technology and a fair life for most. None of this has taken place in the travailled history of the original majority population which has been systematically robbed of its possessions and rights. All the rest is bullshit and details that, in discussion, become an undignified travesty of fundamental notions of decency (because miracles of justice are rare in human history: I know of only one: the British abolition of the slave trade). But this is not what the thread was about, and I think it should end here. Regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:44, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::But the incident of the use of "apartheid" by Kerry just points to the fact that the situation is approaching critical mass insofar as the USA can no longer unilaterally support certain intransigent positions of the Israeli government. :::There are also internal pressures building in Israel, apparently, but, like Japan, the people put right-wingers in office. :::Once the USA has to start abstaining in UN votes regarding Israel, the behavior of the Israeli government will have to change rapidly, or turmoil will ensue. :::That, as I see it, is the crux of the matter at this juncture.--[[User:Ubikwit|<span style="text-shadow:black 0.09em 0.09em;class=texhtml"><font face="Papyrus">Ubikwit</font></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ubikwit| 連絡 ]]</sup><sub>[[Special:contributions/Ubikwit|<font color="#801818" face="Papyrus">見学/迷惑</font>]]</sub> 16:48, 1 May 2014 (UTC) The Guardian - Chris McGreal - [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/14/john-kerry-israel-apartheid-analysis ''Kerry wasn't wrong: Israel's future is beginning to look a lot like apartheid''], 14 May 2014: :* ''In an interview late last year, Danon told me that there is not going to be a Palestinian state, and that Netanyahu shouldn't worry what the Americans think'' :* ''Danon says bluntly that he wants to take the bulk of West Bank land – Judea and Samaria, as it's known in Israel – while ridding the Jewish state of responsibility for governing the mass of Palestinians. "Long-term, I am not talking about annexing the Palestinians. My goal is to annex – or 'apply sovereignty', as I prefer to call it – to the land in Judea and Samaria with the minimum amount of Palestinians," he told me. "So, if I am doing the map, yes, I want the majority of the land with the minimum amount of Palestinians."'' <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 23:28, 14 May 2014 (UTC) ===Pt 2, strictly on the NYTs coverage=== Could any of the young whiz kids out there tell me where the New York Times reported the news that Martin Indyk might resign from his role as Special Envoy, which caused a flurry of articles all over Israel and in many foreign papers? Thanks [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:45, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :According to [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.588834 this] Haaretz article, the source for the story was some Israeli officials in Jerusalem. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 00:06, 15 May 2014 (UTC) (you may be interested in [http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/uploads/Documents/other/IndykKeynote20140508.pdf this transcipt] of a speech and question and answer session given by Indyk on 8 May at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy’s 2014 Weinberg Founders Conference) :Thanks for both Scarpy. I did get the Indyk leak bit into the relevant article when it came out. In any case, I'm now taking some time to see what the NYTs fails to, or is late in, cover(ing) here, and the pattern is quite fascinating.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:03, 15 May 2014 (UTC) ::On the NYT, but on a different topic, where [http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/february2014/white_paper.pdf the NYT is obviously not using its fact checkers, in order to fulfill a propaganda function]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 21:26, 15 May 2014 (UTC) == Evildoer == [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]], I know you've spent a lot of time and said a lot on this AN/I case, but I hope you go to [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Proposed topic ban]] and either voice your support or opposition. From reading your statements, I think I know your position but right now, the voting could go any which way (topic ban, indefinite block, both) and since you made the original complaint, I think what you say will carry a lot of weight. As an editor who is continually and persistently reverted by Evildoer at every turn, I find myself in the peculiar position of speaking up for him, if he can work on his attitude and sourcing. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 01:20, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :If you saw me doddering down the street, and chumbling at the gums, Ma'am, you would not solicit me! I would have preferred, in any case, not to vote. I've lowered my sense of what is due, because some of those votes seem mechanical. I don't like ganging up, or even the appearance of ganging up. There are a lot worse editors in this area than E.d. On the other hand, he hasn' the faintest clue about how to read what's going on, or how to assess sources, and he consistently 'prevaricated': the point about using one's computer only at work, where he could consult the 4 sources, to gain time, and then saying he had read Dipont (re Romulus/Remus) and that his question was only 'rhetorical' only then to admit he never even looked at the 4 sources (i.e. Dipont). I've seen people permabanned for less (like myself!). Let's leave this up to a completely neutral arb, hopefully two or three, to assess the evidence and make an autonomous call as to what is due. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :: It's ironic that the two editors he most came in conflict with are asking for a lenient response in contrast to those who are unfamiliar with him. I see this happen sometimes on AN/I. I appreciate his interest in and passion for the subject, he is just so wedded to his POV, in came in conflict with the style of editing on Wikipedia. To be honest, I keep clear of topics I feel that strongly about, because I don't want to spend my time on Wikipedia fighting over these topics. It's easier to remain detached when you're editing subjects that are not tied to ones personal identity. IMHO. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 23:35, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :::Well, Liz, it's no skin off our noses to behave like gentlewomen! I too try to steer clear of topic I know a lot about, if only because it would be boring to just dollop in information. By editing areas one is ignorant of, one's unpaid work here becomes a constant learning experience. As to personal identity. Fortunate are those who have a clue as to who they are, other than what's on the ID card, if one has one. At least that's the psychoanalytic premise, and I underwrite it (though my signature is meaningless). Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:16, 7 May 2014 (UTC) == A piece of sanity on the Ukraine issues for wiki == You get endless bad reportage in mainstream newspapers. [[Counterpunch]] is not ''stricto sensu'' RS, but [http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/06/the-crisis-in-ukraine-2/ this article should be accepted].[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:32, 6 May 2014 (UTC) == Un peu de réconfort serait le bienvenu == * XX Amitiés, [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 17:40, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :Désolé. Wikipedia souvent me fait penser au proverbe: 'fais du bien à Bertrand, il te le rend en caguant.' I'ìve suggested we draw up a petition here. I'm not confident we can get enough I/P editors from all sides on board, but it's worth trying. This is not an ideological issue: we're supposed to be a community that, even in our disagreements, can see the merits of each other's work. Amitiés.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:42, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :Thank you Nish. :After all that I lived in 8 years I prefer stopping here. :Life is too short. [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 19:36, 6 May 2014 (UTC) ::It's not a lifetime obligation. One can always return. Whatever you decide, enough people here recognize the quality of your work to ensure that your edits here are taken seriously and stick. But it is good to also learn how to live outside of wikipedia, which is all duty, and hardly pleasurable. I saw ''La Môme,'' two nights ago, and can't get rid of those songs, all profoundly melancholic, but releasing springs of some indefinable joy in those who recall them. Summer is upon is, ([[Sumer Is Icumen In]]) and that is all that matters, so fuck/forget wikipedia and enjoy its air, fruits, landscape and lazy afternoons. Un abbraccio.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :::My comment above strikes me now as frivolous, given your distress. A suggestion. The cost of getting even the obvious onto wikipedia here is extremely high. You have a sufficiently wide and deep mastery of the events of 47-8, and control of the secondary literature either to do a doctorate on the subject, or a book. At least there, one is free of the absurd wastage of time and intelligence which working here exacts on many of us, and, this is the sweetener, one can actually thrive in the pleasure of giving one's own views, meticulously reasoned, without murmurs of [[WP:OR]] ruining one's liberty. I would suggest, if this 'defeat' of years of effort rankles, that you exercise that option. If successful, you then become a source for future wiki articles. If not, at least giving systematic shape to your own understanding of events will allow you the pleasures of a private sense of achieved synthesis. A good point of departure would be to map events minutely, after the declaration of the Partition Plan, against the borders outlined in late November 47 until May 14/15 1948, and systematically place each incident, '''within and without those borders''', chronologically, to determine who did what to whom (this is by no means clear from Morris 2004, for example, and in my view his thesis starts to wobble if one does this kind of analysis), listing attacks and casualties. In other words, writing a history of war that excludes all considerations of geopolitics, and outside historical agents, to concentrate exclusively on the struggle between the Yishuv and indigenous Palestinian Arab forces. Of course, please ignore this if, as I hope, you discover that there are better interests to pursue.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:22, 6 May 2014 (UTC) == Reference Errors on 6 May == [[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|35px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]]. I have '''automatically detected''' that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. {{#ifeq:1|1|It is|They are}} as follows: *On the [[:2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks]] page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=607342563 your edit] caused a [[:Category:Pages_with_broken_reference_names|broken reference name]] <small>([[Help:Cite_errors/Cite_error_references_no_text|help]])</small>. ([{{fullurl:2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AReferenceBot%7CReferenceBot%5D%5D}} Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F607342563%7C{{Replace|2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks| |%20}}%5D%5D Ask for help]) Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a [[false positive]], you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, <!-- User:ReferenceBot/inform -->[[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]] ([[User talk:ReferenceBot|talk]]) 00:31, 7 May 2014 (UTC) ==Sourcing== Hi Nishidani! I would ask you to reconsider the comment with which you reverted my edit at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexandra_Aikhenvald&oldid=607347188&diff=prev]. I know about Aikhenvald as a linguist, but that is not even at issue here. [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|Bibliographies about living persons]] are not supposed to contain any unsourced information. The entire paragraph was unsourced, so it was appropriate to delete it. And so was your revert during which you added a source. Best, [[User:G Purevdorj|G Purevdorj]] ([[User talk:G Purevdorj|talk]]) 09:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC) :It is a matter of method. If you see something unsourced, you don't eliminate it (unless of course you have the area competence that tells you the statement or facts are absurd, contradictory, or false etc.) Were that the principle, almost 80% of wikipedia's content, if not more, would go down the gurgler. I wrote the passage you cancelled, because I know of her work on New Guinea languages, and even remembered an interview with her I heard in 2008. Editors have two options when they suspect something: (a) do a google search, which in this case (Aikhenvald+tok-pisin+manambu) would have immediately yield the source, or, if they are too busy, post a {{cn}} tag. I admit I was irritated that I had to go back and do that work, even if it cost me only a minute, hence my edit summary. But had I not by chance left that page, which I glanced at and edited just once, on my watchlist, your failure to check for sources and subsequent elision would have impoverished it, cancelled work by another editor, and left the general reader ignorant of a minor, but important detail. The page could be expanded significantly, also: she deserves better notice as one of the most outstanding linguists of modern times. One must always seek to enrich, rather than impoverish, articles in this fragile, randomly edited, digital encyclopedia. Regards.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:36, 7 May 2014 (UTC) == Thank you == {| style="border: 1px solid #999999; background-color: #FFFFFF}; width:100%;" |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Socratic Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Socratic Barnstar.png|100px]]}} |rowspan="2" | |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#9D741A; font-family:Comic Sans MS, Arial, Helvetica;" | '''The Socratic Barnstar''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I was meaning to thank you months ago but I forgot to. You've single handedly turned the [[Khazars]] article into one worthy of FA status. Not only is it free of edit wars now, but it's nice to be able to read one of my favorite articles without seeing it shrink or inflate with original research. :)))) [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 20:08, 12 May 2014 (UTC) |} Deeply appreciated, but I couldn't have gotten it into shape alone. I might have done a fair bit of the work, but it was an environment of several posters like yourself, Laszlo, Andrew and Jeepez (I hope I've forgotten no one, but at my age . .), ready to read closely, curb edit warriors, and check that constituted the ''sine qua non'' of anything accomplished there. Teamwork by people with a critical independence can do wonders, and no one main editor should forget that debt. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:11, 12 May 2014 (UTC) == CFD discussion == [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]], since you edit in the broad area of the Middle East, I'd welcome your opinion in the discussion on the deletion of the Semitic peoples' categories. The question about these categories seems to hinge on whether or not the editor believes Semitic is correctly applied to people or if it should be restricted to describing certain topics, like language, geography or history. Please weigh in at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 11#Category:People of Semitic descent]]. Thanks. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 14:50, 13 May 2014 (UTC) == [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard]] == I don't want to be a headache but your experience with fringe theories are needed [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#History of the Jews in Russia|here]]. [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 23:43, 14 May 2014 (UTC) == Query == Are there any maps uploadable for the disposition of Yishuv forces on the 13/14 May 1948 set against the Nov.30 Partition plan map? One exists, and can be viewed at 17.15 minutes into [[Salman Abu Sitta]]'s lecture on the Right of Return [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNW9dCDanho&sa=U&ei=nrx3U_L2I8aM7Qb9_YGwDg&ved=0CB4QtwIwAA&sig2=m57yJtS8bMhW1dM84MRujA&usg=AFQjCNEnZq6OuVkOJ_i3JasyGYjjTgfW4Q here]. His argument is that on the day of the 'Arab Invasion' , Yishuv forces were already outside the lines allocated to them. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:52, 17 May 2014 (UTC) == Notes for possible future edits == *New definition of nakba. <blockquote>a demonstration on '''Nakba Day—the anniversary of Israel’s Declaration of Independence in 1948'''. (Jonathan S. Tobin,[http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/05/21/was-nakba-shooting-another-al-dura-libel-israel-palestinians/ 'Was Nakba Shooting Another al-Dura Libel?,'] [[Commentary (magazine)|Commentary Magazine]] 21 May 2014.)</blockquote> *The problem with [[List of Israeli assassinations]] is that it is restricted so far to ordered killings, mostly admitted by the state actor. If the 15 May 2014 killings turn out to give the lie to the [[Pallywood]]<ref>Yossi Sarid, [http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.592275 'Holes in their backs,'] [[Haaretz]] 24 May, 2014.</ref> memes circulating, the following data, plus sources indicating the outcome of investigations, should be entered there. It parallels the [[Mohammad al-Dura]] incident, given the indeterminacy, save for one element: in the former, responsibility was admitted immediately, only to be denied later. In the latest incident, responsibility was denied, the disinformation on tampered footage deconstructed within days. {| class="wikitable sortable" |- ! style="width:8%;"|Date ! style="width:8%;"|Place ! style="width:18%;"|Target ! style="width:20%;"|Description !Action ! style="width:12%;"|Executor |- |May 15, 2014 |[[Beitunia]], [[West Bank]] |Nadeem Siam Nawara(17); Mohammad Mahmoud Odeh Salameh(16). A third student, Mohammed Aza, was shot through the lungs |Students |Shot dead in the back in two separate incidents (73 minutes apart) after a demonstration involving rock throwing outside Ofer Prison. |[[Israel Border Police]].<ref>Peter Beaumont,[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/22/footage-palestinian-boys-shot-genuine-btselem 'Footage of Palestinian boys being shot is genuine, says Israeli rights group,'] [[The Guardian]], 22 May 2014.</ref><ref>Gili Cohen and Jack Khoury,[http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592312 'New CNN footage of Nakba Day killings fuels debate over deaths,'] 22 May 2014.</ref ><ref>Ivan Watson, Kareem Khadder and Mike Schwartz, [http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/22/world/meast/israel-west-bank-shooting/ 'Father blames Israeli military in Palestinian teens' deaths,'] [[CNN]] 22 May 2014.</ref><ref>Jodi Rudoren, [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/world/middleeast/palestinian-teenagers-video.html 'Video Renews Questions on Death of Young Palestinians,'] [[New York Times]], 20 May 2014.</ref> |}[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:31, 23 May 2014 (UTC) {{reflist|close=1}} == Israel - Palestine Conflict == It said at the top that you can only revert once every 24 hours on that page if you Edit it. You might be blocked now, you reverted twice! XD [[User:TDFan2006|The Toon Disney Guy]] ([[User talk:TDFan2006|talk]]) 11:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC) :What you did was self-evident vandalism. I/P articles are not disneyland, toon comics or a kindergarten sandpit. If you have legitimate objections that have missed the lynx-eyed gaze of a dozen long-term editors, address the talk page. If you wish to take this to A/1 read [[WP:Boomerang]]. Whatever, the mass removal of RS-sourced (4) material without warning is vandalism.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:03, 5 June 2014 (UTC) ::I've checked your record, and can find no evidence at a quick review of interest in anything other than cartoons and television, except one edit to that page which was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict&diff=prev&oldid=596899305 a drive-by tag plastering edit]. Please correct me if I err.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC) :::[[Hips Don't Lie|No,]] [[What If (Jason Derulo song)|that]] [[Number 1 (Tinchy Stryder song)|is]] [[Buzzin' (Mann song)|wrong,]] [[Forever (Drake song)|Dude!]] Also. Why are you bothered about that? [[WP:DICK|You don't need to be a dick]] about it. [[User:TDFan2006|The Toon Disney Guy]] ([[User talk:TDFan2006|talk]]) 07:34, 6 June 2014 (UTC) ::::[[Lil Bibby|Unlike you]], [[Beth Orton|I wasn’t born]] [[Yesterday|yesterday]]. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC) == JarlaxleArtemis == For the record, it absolutely is him - even down to denying his identity (he also denied that he was Grawp until that was proven). He reacts instinctively - any time anyone challenges his edits, he starts making unicode-infused, empty, cowardly threats against them. As if this had ever worked. This has been going on for ten years, since he was 15, and he hasn't changed a bit. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 14:43, 9 June 2014 (UTC) :I'm deeply appreciative of the work you, and others like Malik, do in keeping this nonsense clear of pages. Jeez, I never really follow this stuff, but from 15-25 he's wasted a decade doing this? - ten of the best years of one's life, when one writes poems, reads impossibly dull tomes that turn out to be memorable for some gem one discovers or page-turning novels, treks through deserts, or along thin pathways in tropical forests, listens to the Beatles and Elvis, learns languages, travels the world, screws around, and up, goes to concerts to hear Richter, or watch Nureyev, works on a kibbutz, plays football and cricket, skulls and runs in long-distance events, almost gets murdered, carouses till dawn in good company every week in hundreds of pubs from London to Toronto to Los Angeles, and this kid's lost himself in fighting an ephemeral nanosecond war seated before a computer screen instead? It's profoundly sad because pointless. The state of Israel flourishes, and will continue to do so, whatever historians write, or angry POV pushers of the eternal panic-button of antisemitism or anti-antisemitism say, or do. I used to laugh when I saw the otherwise dumb message 'Get a life!' on the net. I now realize that it appears to be appropriate. Cheers and thanks.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC) ::And a big thank you from me also, to you :NawlinWiki, and Malik and Zero and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User+talk%3AHuldra all the others] who help keep the death threats etc off my page, Cheers to you! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 23:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC) :::Good grief! I never realized you had that many. Take it as a backhanded compliment, sys(ter). By a quick calculation (no of death threats etc vs number of edits on Palestinian villages) it is empirical proof at last that you remain the most important and invaluable contributor to wikipedia's database on the Palestinian world.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:27, 10 June 2014 (UTC) ::::Of course I take it as a big compliment! :D But I really haven´t gotten the larges compliment yet; having socks named after you....I´m green with envy...: {{user|NishidaniDoesBadStuffToChildren}} :) Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 20:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC) ==Beitunia== The Beitunia shootings incident probably deserves its own article at some point given the coverage, although perhaps it's too soon. Anyhow, you may not have seen a more recent NYT article[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/world/middleeast/israel-suspends-soldier-in-west-bank-shooting-investigation.html?_r=0] B'Tselem seem to be keeping track of the media reports.[http://www.btselem.org/in-the-media] <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 12:40, 10 June 2014 (UTC) :Thanks for the links. I've a whole file on that, thinking that it fits the criteria for a targeted killing but none of the earlier reports gave it as an instance of the same, until I noticed that, today, Human Right Watch reported its considered view that this consisted of a targeted killing. In that report, HRW lists quite a number of civilian killings that result from targeting practices with live fire during demonstrations, which however never figure in the usual lists of targeted assassinations, where the assumption is that there must be some Israeli testimony that the suspect was a 'militant'. This is just of course bias: one could add a large list of such killings that are not labelled that way ('targeted assassinations'), but they can't be added unless we have independent assessments classifying them that way. To note just another:- *October (24?) , 2001 *[[Tulkarm]] *[[Abdallah Jarousha]]. *Unknown. A businessman *Shot by Israeli snipers from Battalion 202 of the Paratroop Brigade, on suspicion of using a nearby telephone booth to regularly report Israeli positions. *[[IDF]](ref Chaim Levinson [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.597922 'IDF officer promoted despite role in Palestinian's death,'] [[Haaretz]] 10 June 2014 ref>) One can't add that to the list, despite the fact that we know who gave the order (now Brig. Gen.) Roni Numa, who, Ofir, relayed the decision to 'neutralize' a Palestinian businessman (driving in a car with his wife and brother-in-law and children), to the two snipers who then shot him dead. It's the best documented example of the genre, but is not classified yet in the targeted assassinations lists. Indeed no internet search will tell you the day the incident occurred, nor the name of the person. Of the several thousand killed so far, on my reading, several hundred would fit that description of being deliberately targeted, though not militants. But we can't do [[WP:OR]] syntheses or draw conclusions. :As to the incident deserving a page, I have extensive downloads of reportage that would make that an easy job. But in the past I generally opposed temptations to follow the habit of using wikipedia to showcase individual incidents ([[Murder of Shalhevet Pass]], The [[Death of Asher and Yonatan Palmer]],[[Death of Yehuda Shoham]],[[Murder of Eliyahu Asheri]], [[Murder of Helena Rapp]], [[Murder of Koby Mandell and Yosef Ishran]], [[Murder of Neta Sorek and Kristine Luken]],[[Murder of Ofir Rahum]],[[Murder of Oleg Shaichat]],[[Murder of Yaron Chen]],etc.) because all of those articles were written by editors wishing to make a case, assign historic blame or blacken the other side, and the events mostly fail [[WP:Notable]]. I wrote [[Zion Square assault]] to test these editors, but the event took on a life of its own and was so widely reported that its inclusion on wiki became obligatory. Sound practice would suggest that a potential article [[The Murder of Nadim Nawareh and Mohammed Salameh]] can only be justified if reportage continues over several months, and it eventually is included or noted in the ongoing stream of academic books on the I/P world.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:29, 10 June 2014 (UTC) ::I like articles about individual incidents but rarely have time to work on them. They require so much research to ensure accuracy and balance. Done well I think they can be interesting and informative in the sense that they often encapsulate broader aspects, ripples of the conflict in microcosm, in the events that came before and after the incidents, the causes and effects. Unfortunately it seems to be almost impossible to do anything well in ARBPIA. I worked on [[Murder of Hatuel family]] for a while to see if I could make it better, but ended up walking away. I genuinely don't understand why editors would only write articles about certain incidents and not others based on the nature of the victims. What's the difference ? I mean I get it, I understand what is going on and why to a certain extent for those editors, but it doesn't make any sense to me. It's a pity that Wikipedia's coverage of the day to day things that make up the conflict for the people involved is so piss poor. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 18:42, 10 June 2014 (UTC) :::Thanks. I hadn't thought about it from that angle, which I should have, given that I admire the microstory approach to history, as exemplified by the articles and monographs of [[Carlo Ginzburg]], for example. Perhaps I should reconsider an article like that. When I saw what was being done with the [[Death of Yehuda Shoham]], i.e., using a selective set of sources to underline the viviousness of Palestinians (I just noted because someone edited it, the article [[Deception: Betraying the Peace Process]] which should be deleted as a non-notable book whose agenda is to ignore what systematic studies show, by the way - same purpose on wiki), I stepped in, and it was a bit of a firefight, but in the end (haven't checked recently) managed to contextualize it historically in the flow of violence on ''both'' sides during that week, and the political consequences. I think that it should be obligatory to do this on all articles of this kind. It's not impossible because of ARBPIA, but because of source bias. We know much more from newspapers about Israeli victims on average than we do of Palestinian victims, who are lucky to get mentioned by name, while articles that deal with close background focus tend to be well informed on the Israeli context, and less so on the Palestinian context. [[Murder of Shalhevet Pass]] is a good example (I can't remember if anyone has edited into it the fact that Israeli politicians were so disgusted by the extreme media pressure the Hebron settlers put on them to turn up for the burial and transform it into a signature day for Israel's victimization, that several in the end boycotted the ceremony. It's in the sources, but those who edit the page appear to prefer to coast over it. :::As for the editors, if I may hazard a remark, restricting my remarks to bad editors from the ostensibly 'pro-Israeli' side, many of them are raised within an ideology dominated by the historical fact of anti-semitism, which is a eurocentric disease, and Zionism which was originally premised on the idea that indigenous Palestinians could be omitted from the picture. [[Victor Klemperer]] caught the syndrome back in his diaries in the early 30s when he, if my memory doesn't err, likened what would happen to Palestinians, they would be forced historically to play the role of wild Indians being shot out of history in an endlessly popular Hollywood storyline of the 'conquest of the West', untinctured by [[Karl May]]'s romantic defence of the noble savage. Both my parents' generation and mine watched endless Hollywood movies where the historical atrocities of the white conquest were ignored, while the indigenous victims of what was a kind of partial genocide by an invader, were depicted as a murderous bloodthirsty savages, always to blame. This scotoma has been revived in the post 9/11 storyline of terrorism (which of course does exist), while dying out in Westerns, and therefore 'it does make sense' to me, that they cannot see the obvious (IOTTMCO as John Lanchester wrote recently in the LRB). It is hard to feel pity if the 'other' shouldn't exist on principle, and her presence is just some dark anomalous blur on the periphery of one's vision, which is focused solely on one's own tremendous stride towards a dazzling historical achievement. :::Klemperer's vision was as prophetic as Kafka's was of modernity and Nazism. They are 'sincere' in the worst sense of that word, i.e., they cannot understand that 'sincerity' can obtain in people who disagree with them: it must be bad faith, or anti-semitism. It is a reflex Pavlovian system of group-think, as inexorable in its conclusions as any ideology.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:11, 10 June 2014 (UTC) The other relevant point to consider is system bias. For instance, while we don't have an article for the Beitunia killings, there is already an article for an event less than three days old - [[2014 kidnapping of Israeli teens]] (an example of the format described by Nishidani: "using a selective set of sources to underline the viviousness of Palestinians"). A prodigious output of (POV) articles covering Israeli victims of the the conflict while not covering Palestinian victims is a problem. [[User:Dlv999|Dlv999]] ([[User talk:Dlv999|talk]]) 10:49, 15 June 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks. I actually checked yesterday, wondering how long this would take to get into wikipedia, and, not finding an article, thought to myself that the area was improving. Alas, not so. I think editors should exercise caution in succumbing to the temptation to imitate this pattern (it does look, even if it isn't, retaliatory), even if there is a strong argument for 'balancing' the evident POV-bias. Whether or not an article should be written on the Beitunia murders or not should depend on [[WP:NOTABLE]] criteria (such events fail ''notability'' (ugh!) in wikipedia terms because their frequency is in inverse proportion to the follow-up attention given targeted Palestinian murders in the RS mainstream press - they occur almost monthly), esp. on the forensic outcome (partially known) and ongoing reports of the Israeli investigation, while keeping in mind that one can't be bound by the latter, since these notoriously drag on and tend to bury such cases.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:58, 15 June 2014 (UTC) :::Fuck, bad editors just mean revert wars, false edit summaries, and the burden of fixing crap placed on others' shoulders. 'I provide the POV pushing and you neutralize it, if anyone's looking.' [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:00, 15 June 2014 (UTC) == Your lovely vandal == I asked Alison if an IP was JarlaxleArtemis and she confirmed and blocked several accounts and another IP. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 14:08, 14 June 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Doug. I fail to see the point of this turpiloquent hyperactivism in my regard. I think the Spanish for 'water off a duck's back' is ''Por un oído me entra y por otro me sale,'' so I quack rather than quake. I still owe you that article, - just overwhelmed these months by extrawiki work and life. Will do it eventually.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC) ==Notice== [[Image:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. [[User:FatGuySeven|FatGuySeven]] ([[User talk:FatGuySeven|talk]]) 03:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC) == Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in. == [[File:Peacedove.svg|60px|left]] This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard]] regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> [[User:FatGuySeven|FatGuySeven]] ([[User talk:FatGuySeven|talk]]) 16:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC) == IP socks == Hi, regarding your comment at [[Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement]]: you seem to have forgotten to sign it. Any full RfC about the matter would be flooded with socks, me thinks. Perhaps we should start finding links to all those off-wiki reports of canvassing, and then show the damage (=huge waste of time) throw-away sock do in the I/P area, and then take it to Arb.com? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 20:35, 30 June 2014 (UTC) *Btw, have you seen [http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Halhul this]? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 01:16, 1 July 2014 (UTC) *I would absolutely love it if you could help me out on [[Talk:Nisf Jubeil]]. We need a French and a Latin reader. There are two Nisf Jubeils which have been mixed up, it seems, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 08:52, 1 July 2014 (UTC) ::Of course. But I will be away for a few days. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 09:48, 1 July 2014 (UTC) == SPI case filed == I've filed a sockpuppet case at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Smatprt. [[User:Tom Reedy|Tom Reedy]] ([[User talk:Tom Reedy|talk]]) 13:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC) == For the task ahead.... == {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Export hell seidel steiner.png|70px]] |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |Have a beer! Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC) |} Btw, one very easy task: on [[Umm al-Fahm]] Guerin writes that it has "dix huit cents" inhabitants. Isn´t that 1800? Petersen, citing Guerin, say it is 800? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:44, 9 July 2014 (UTC) ::Strewth. You may have seen me making occasional edits in here, but since Monday I have been once more chopping down trees, chain-sawing wood, packaging 31 large bags of leaves for disposal, loading trucks - backload of tasks I finally could do only on those days because a friend turned up with the equipment to rid the place of a year of accumulated woodstock. Same Friday. I'll do it though, just remind me if I haven'ìt by Sunday night.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:01, 10 July 2014 (UTC) == User reported me == Hi Nishidani.... Just letting you know :) user Gunrpks reported me for "reverting" his editorial wars on your article concerning the war in the middle east. I am a new user and have never reported some one before but I will try to report him as well. --[[User:علي سمسم|علي سمسم]] ([[User talk:علي سمسم|talk]]) 12:35, 10 July 2014 (UTC) :I see. I'm afraid you can't enlist people's help, technically. You are new to this place, unlike [[User:Gunrpks]] and, I think, you engaged in an edit-war with him. Your excuse would be unfamiliarity with I/P ARBPIA practices, but any editor should inform himself before hand that edit-warring, even in a 'just cause' sends a bad signal. One must not imitate bad editors. In any case, as you are unfamiliar with these things, I will examine this, if only because I informed that editor that he was violating the 1RR, and he persisted. I refrained from reporting him, but, if my perception is correct about his edits, it is certainly odd that he should report you. That would mean he risks WP:Boomerang, when all of the evidence is examined. In any case, I would advise you not to report him, it is a bad practice, esp. by newbies, to use this. It looks like playing tactical games to out an 'adversary'. Be patience, calm, succinct, in your reply, and if you check the evidence and find you have made an error, apologize. Above all, do not transform your reply into a long screed. Trust administrators to see into it. They have better eyes than most of us, most of the time.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:07, 10 July 2014 (UTC) Thank you :)--[[User:علي سمسم|علي سمسم]] ([[User talk:علي سمسم|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2014 (UTC) :It would be wise to withdraw your complaint. You made an error, since it was not [[User:Gunrpks]] who reported you but [[User:Shrike]]. I have already noted in his complaint the unsatisfactoriness of his report, and you would do well therefore to withdraw your complaint, and allow admiistrators to examine the whole set of diffs for the relevant pages and make up their own minds. Edit-warring did occur on both sides, and they must evaluate from your respective records what to do in each case.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:57, 10 July 2014 (UTC) == Nomination of [[:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel]] for deletion == <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]]. The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel ]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> [[User:AlanS|AlanS]] ([[User talk:AlanS|talk]]) 14:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC) == A cup of tea for you! == {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg|120px]] |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I find it chills me more than coffee! I think we can work well together, because of, more than despite, our differing POVs. I think most editors misuse or fail to grasp the positives of that dynamic, in many contentious areas. Cheers :) [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 00:22, 12 July 2014 (UTC) |} :Thanks, gratefully accepted. Nicely designed cup, though I prefer a mug, because the latter makes me think of myself.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:30, 12 July 2014 (UTC) ::Ditto :). With respect, [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 02:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC) == Thanks lads for riding shotgun on this page, (NSH001, Sean.hoyland, Sjö and Yunshui) == But now that I see what the removed 150 odd attacks by this Nishidumbass sockster wrote, I wonder at the puerile lack of an ability to connect one's thoughts to real history. Willing death on others in order to defend one's 'ethnic vitalism' is of course a Nazi cast of mind, and therefore, ''ipso facto'' unacceptable for anyone with the genocide of WW2 still vivid in recall. Hitler once said:’ We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew.' Manfred Henningsen, ‘The Politics of Purity and Exclusion,’ Björn H. Jernudd, Michael J. Shapiro (eds.), [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=GfdsXwTT6fcC&pg=PA48 ''The Politics of Language Purism,''] Mouton de Gruyter ‎1989 pp.31-52 p.48 Same pathology in the sock who thinks eliminating Christians, Europeans, Arabs and wikipedia will somehow secure the survival of Israel. Even if that happened I would survive, I guess, being a pagan, and only 'European' by adoption. Then again, if wikipedia was killed off, I might just, qua Nishidani, croak with it! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:34, 14 July 2014 (UTC) :Sjö! tack så mycket ::''Strömkarlen spelar, ::''Sorgerna delar ::''Vakan kring berg och dal.'' :雲水先生,谢 谢 你 的 帮 助. ::喜見行脚人 ::恥茶無兩杯 [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:19, 14 July 2014 (UTC) :::That's very elegant - a pleasure to assist someone of a poetic bent. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Yunshui|<sup style="font-size:90%">雲</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|<sub style="font-size:90%">水</sub>]] 10:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC) ::::No poetic bent, but a bent for what poets write, reading which keeps me sane when editing in here. The merits of elegance lie elsewhere, I confess. I'd been reading about [[Ladakh]] recently, while engaged in a AfD discussion on Nepal, and saw those elegant verses by a Chinese visitor to that wonderful place. Then someone offered me a cup of tea (see above), and I thought of [[tsampa]], and when I saw the 雲 in your handle I thought of the [[Tümed]], and 水, water, by an uncanny coincidence, clicked with the other admin's handle ''Sjö'', which in Swedish means 'lake' and both of you had rid my page of a [[Neck (water spirit)|Strömkarl]], who tries to drown people (here by inundating the page with racist hogwash). Thanks again.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:54, 14 July 2014 (UTC) [[Image:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=Stop icon]] Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]. '''Being involved in an edit war can result in your being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. ==Wikipedia edit warring noticeboard== Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring]] regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit warring]][[User:Tritomex|Tritomex]] ([[User talk:Tritomex|talk]]) 11:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC) == Notice of [[WP:ARBPIA]] == {{subst:alert|a-i}}--~~~~'
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'{{pp-vandalism|expiry=21 July 2014|small=yes}} {{oldmfdfull|date=October 9, 2010|result=keep|votepage=User talk:Nishidani}} {{retired|emeritus editor}} {{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn|target=./Index|mask=/Archive <#>|leading_zeros=0|indexhere=yes|template=User:Nishidani/archive indexing format}} {{archives|search=yes|index=/Index}} {{User:MiszaBot/config |archiveheader = {{talkarchivenav}} |maxarchivesize = 250K |counter = 17 |minthreadsleft = 20 |minthreadstoarchive = 2 |algo = old(180d) |archive = User talk:Nishidani/Archive %(counter)d }} {{bots|deny=DPL bot}} {{NoBracketBot}} =='''The West Bank/Judea and Samaria Problem''' == {{User:Nishidani/JS}} == [[Leonardo Sciascia|A futura memoria (se la memoria ha un futuro)]] == [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Yambaram:Incivility.2C_slurs_and_accusations_of_antisemitism User:Yambaram:Incivility, slurs and accusations of antisemitism] All that was asked, was answered, fairly, simply and neatly.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:35, 18 January 2014 (UTC) :It's nice to see things work right over there for once. It didn't look like it was trending that way. I'm sorry you had to go through it. It reminded me of this by Emily: ::To fight aloud is very brave, ::But gallanter, I know, ::Who charge within the bosom, ::The cavalry of woe. ::Who win, and nations do not see, ::Who fall, and none observe, ::Whose dying eyes no country ::Regards with patriot love. &mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 15:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Alf. Wow! Just in 'Patriot love' alone, the sinister use of amphibology to promote a popular conceit only to mock it to bits by making the word it defines, patriotism's antithesis 'love', show the vacuity of the epithet, is magnificent. It effortlessly synthesizes [[Elegy in a Country Churchyard]], while going beyond its paternalistic sentimentalism. Because it made me think of a rush of things, [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Habit_of_Perfection ''The Habit of Perfection'']'s second stanza, Tennyson's [[The Charge of the Light Brigade]] (to which also it must be a conscious and sharp riposte) Horace's cant of [[Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori|''dulcet decorest . .'']] which [[Wilfred Owen]] so savagely and briliantly lampooned, and both Rimbaud's [[fr:wiki|Le dormeur du val]] and Lermontov's [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=WnqzRcx0OZ4C&pg=PA205 Valerik],([[Valerik (poem)|''Val'' in Valerik]] anticipating uncannily ''val'' in Rimbaud (doesn't appear to be translated but there's a description [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=ey_OhnEBOzgC&pg=PA100 here]), wih further analogies even down to the eyes of the dying soldier) which of course reminded me I should do more edits to [[Imam Shamil]]. A very good afternoon: decent closure to a smear campaign, a long conversation with a mystic, and your clever use of a poem I don't remember to cap things with a subtle message while offering a gift of poetic genius. Even the [[Knödel|canederli]] whose scent is now wafting up into the study from the hearth will take a back seat to evening thoughts of E.D. Thanks indeed.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:38, 18 January 2014 (UTC) ==Hello== Hello, I'm Anup. I was just moving by recent changes. Thought I would leave you a msg requesting you to remove <nowiki>{{retired|emeritus editor}}</nowiki> template from your talk page. Welcome back to Wikipedia. Cheers! [[User:Anupmehra|<font color="red">Anup</font>]][[User talk:Anupmehra|<font color="saffron">Mehra</font>]] <sup>[[Special:Contributions/Anupmehra|✈]]</sup> 11:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC) ::The second sentence is ungrammatical. I do not know what 'msg' refers to. Emeritus means retired but still active. So your request is pointless and I'm sorry but I must disoblige you. It's my page, and you should worry about its innocuousness.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:16, 27 January 2014 (UTC) == Question == Nishidani, on the Talk-page of the [[Gospel of Matthew]] you wrote: "...the importance for some Church theologians of establishing a Hebrew precedence in an environment where both Jewish and Christians competed for converts vigorously, '''where rabbinic hostility to Yeshua''' and ecclesiastical suppression of variant traditions '''deleted much of the then available evidence'''." Can you recite any historical documents attesting to this fact? It seems more likely to me that the passages quoted by Jerome, Eusebius, Origen, Irenaeus and Epiphanius from the original Gospel of Matthew (which was written in the Aramaic language and in Hebrew characters), and which Jerome had seen in the Library of Caesarea, is proof that the original text was not tampered with. It simply did not contain the genealogical record that now appears in the canonical text of Matthew (a later interpolation). Some think that these contradictory genealogical records in Matthew and Luke were added in order to counter the claim that Jesus may have been born of illegitimate birth. '''According to Epiphanius''' (''Anacephalaiosis'' 13.1): "The beginning of the Gospel among them reads: ''It happened in the days of Herod the king of Judea (at a time when Caiaphas was high priest) that a certain John came, baptizing the baptism of conversion in the river Jordan. Of him it is said that he was from the family of Aaron the priest, the son of Zacharias and Elisabeth. And all went out to him. […] It happened that John baptized and the Pharisees went out to him and were baptized and all Jerusalem. And John was dressed in a mantle of camel's hair and a leather belt was round his waist. And his food was, it is said, wild honey, of which the taste was that of manna, like cakes in olive oil''.” It is worthy to note that the style of this original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew was similar in style to an earlier MS, ''viz''., the Aramaic '''''Scroll of Antiochus''''', whose introduction is strikingly similar to the Aramaic Gospel of Matthew, as if Matthew tried to emulate the style of the former.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 12:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ::David, the above is massively confused, if only because in English you are saying that Jerome, Eusebius, Origen, Irenaeus and Epiphanius quoted from the original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew. They didn't. ::Consulting primary texts is important. But we can only do so through secondary sources, since primary sources have all sorts of disputes surrounding them. You are careless in your use of both primary and secondary sources: the Anacephalaiosis is a recapitulation of Epiphanius's ''Panarion'', itself a very confusing source, and is not by Epiphanius. ::'the style of this original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew'. How did you get to that conclusion? If we lack the 'original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew' how can we say what style it was written in? See? ::All ancient Christian testimonies agree that Yeshua died and was resurrected. That doesn't make it a fact. Many of the foundational stories in Genesis come from Ugaritic and Akkadian fairy-tales. That doesn't mean that the authors were ''translating'' from the originals in those languages. These methodological considerations are very elementary, and I can see no sign of a sensitivity to them. Antiquity was mainly an oral-transmission world, based also on rote memorization which, in bilingual speakers meant the tales were rewoven according to the audience's primary language. I don't care one way another about this. It is all speculative and unverifiable except if a rubbish dump in Egypt throws up evidence. The only thing that is important is to get secondary RS materials properly marshalled and paraphrased. ::The ''facts'' I refer to and which you quote are common in the secondary historical literature. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 14:26, 13 February 2014 (UTC) :::Nishidani, you asked me: "How did you get to that conclusion [about its style]? If we lack the 'original Aramaic Gospel of Matthew' how can we say what style it was written in?" The answer is quite simple, Nishidani. I study Talmud (both, the Babylonian and Palestinian Talmud), which texts are written in Aramaic, just as Jews have always written their religious works and novellae. The Palestinian Talmud is written in the dialect spoken by Jesus and it is, therefore, quite easy to reconstruct the original text of the Hebrew/Aramaic Gospel of Matthew based on Epiphanius' record in Greek. I have made a preliminary translation back into the spoken Aramaic of the time, and, surprisingly, it is strikingly similar to the Aramaic "'''Scroll of Antiochus'''" which I also have in my private library. The "Scroll of Antiochus" begins in this way: "It happened in the days of Antiochus, the king of Grecia, a king who was great and strong and potent in his dominion, and to whom all kings gave homage, etc." The words in Judeo-Aramaic are: והוה ביומי אנטיוכס מלכא דיון, מלך רב ותקיף הוה וחסין בשלטנותיה וכל מלכיא ישתמעון ליה. You see, in the original Aramaic of the Gospel of Matthew (as quoted by Epiphanius ibid.) the wording would have been quite similar: והוה ביומי הורדוס מלכא דיהוד , etc. :::As for your reluctance to rely principally upon primary sources, I can understand that. Still, because of the vast opinions in contemporary literature regarding this subject - often divergent one from the other, it is always a good idea to bear in mind the primary sources upon whose axis our entire debate hinges. For example: Jerome wrote (''Dialogus adversus Pelagianos'', in: Migne, Patr. Lat. 23, Parisiis 1883, III, 2): "In the Gospel 'According to the Hebrews,' '''which was written in the Chaldaic and Syriac language but with Hebrew letters, and is used up to the present day by the Nazoraeans, I mean that according to the Apostles, or, as many maintain, according to Matthew''', which Gospel is also available in the Library of Caesarea, the story runs: 'See, the mother of the Lord and his brother said to him: John the Baptist baptizes for the remission of sins, let us go to be baptized by him, etc." :::Likewise did Jerome write elsewhere: "'''Matthew, also called Levi, an apostle after having been a publican, was the first to compose a gospel of Christ in Judea in Hebrew letters''' and words for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed. '''But who afterwards translated it into Greek is not sufficiently certain'''. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilius the martyr so diligently collected." - Jerome (''On Illustrious Men'').[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 19:59, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ::::'The answer is quite simple, Nishidani. I study Talmud' ::::I might answer that my first degree was in classical Greek, of which the koine is a very simple dialect. One thing one learns in mastering a classical language is that sources are often garbled. Almost all classical sources save one (Dionysius of Halicarnassus) say that the Etruscans emigrated from southwestern Asia Minor. The majority of scholars subscribe to the theory of autochthony. Go figure. Several hundred scholars with a command of Aramaic and Greek disagree with you.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC) :::::I will be willing to challenge any scholar in a debate on these ancient texts, and I am quite confident that I could win such a debate. I have already noticed countless errors with so-called "scholarship." Some try to use a Syriac-dialect to reconstruct the original Aramaic Gospel, but their dialect is NOT the same as Jewish Aramaic of the 1st century CE. Even Babylonian Aramaic differs from Palestinian Aramaic! Ask any Jewish scholar who has studied the Talmud in Israel for more than thirty years. Also, Jews have preserved written records dating back to thousands of years, similar to the Greeks in that regard. The difference, however, being that Jews are more scrupulous in what concerns the accurate rendition and copying of ancient texts. I know because I also worked in Jerusalem as a scribe.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 23:43, 13 February 2014 (UTC) The problem is not to convince oneself, most of us have that fateful flaw in our characters: the problem is to convince one's peers that 'everyone is out of step but me, Johnny', to adopt my mother's ancient admonition for eccentric ideas. Pilpul's methods, however intricate, are generally not those of [[historical criticism]] and [[textual analysis]]. Formal source analysis is what you lack: I can see it in the way you marshal evidence. *'The Palestinian Talmud is written in the dialect spoken by Jesus' (actually it is written in Late Western Aramaic (i.e. post 200 CE, which has three varieties Jewish Palestinian, Christian Palestinian and Samaritan Palestinian dialects). I am very familiar with two dialects with a written history, and each of them has changed drastically over 200 years. ::Having studied the Aramaic of the Palestinian Talmud, it is quite conclusive that the style and dialect were common in Galilee in the 1st century CE. The shortening of proper names (e.g. Yuda instead of Yehudah, Yashua instead of Yehoshua, etc.) are just a few examples of this. The Aramaic in Israel may have also been used by Samaritans and Christians, but this is irrelevant, since the surviving Aramaic texts of the Palestinian Talmud are all quintessential Jewish modes of speech in the Land of Israel at that time.[[User:Davidbena|Davidbena]] ([[User talk:Davidbena|talk]]) 17:06, 15 February 2014 (UTC) *Jerome write elsewhere: "'''Matthew, also called Levi, an apostle after having been a publican, was the first to compose a gospel of Christ in Judea in Hebrew letters''' :I.e.,Jerome thinks the Gospel of Matthew was written by a direct disciple who knew Jesus, a provincial tax-collector who must have been born around I-2 CE, who set down his impressions in Aramaic sometime after 33CE. It follows that Matthew is the first gospel: that Mark, whom the same Papias identifies as Peter's interpreter, and hence a Greek-speaking intimate of the first apostle, didn't influence Matthew, but Matthew Mark, though every indication tells us the contrary is '''probably''' the case (the nativity stories arose after Mark, probably in response to Jewish criticisms that Yehoshua could not be the messiah because his birth data as a Nazarene were not consonant with biblical prophecies about the Davidic line, hence the 'trip to Bethlehem', etc); that typical phrases like ἕως τῆς σήμερον at Matt:27:8 and elsewhere, suggest strongly several decades had passed from the time of Yehoshua to Matthew's writing; That therefore characteristic stock phrases typical of Matthew's style, though identical to those favoured by [[Johanan ben Zakai|Joachanan ben Zakai who would have been 3 years old at the traditional date for Yehoshua's death]], for one, who would customarily use them after 70 CE are either coincidences or signs that JbZ picked them up from Matthew, rather than a Matthew writing in the 70s and 80s picked them up from JbZ, i.e. like that from Hosea 6:6 כִּ֛יחֶ֥סֶדחָפַ֖צְתִּיוְלֹא־זָ֑בַח = Ἔλεος θέλω καὶ οὐ θυσίαν Matt.9:13;12:7 . One could multiply like a tumbling block of domino pieces sprawling for miles the problematical consequences for the thesis you push, a thesis based on an ignorance, friend, of the standard techniques of source criticism developed over the last 200 years. Accumulation of memes, of repeated statements with their variations in ancient texts, does not constitute an argument, as you and Ret.Prof think. It is only evidence for a failure to understand the methodology of modern scholarship. :For thousands of years everything agreed [[Homer]] wrote the Iliad and Odyssey. All primary sources said so. The thesis crumbled when formal analysis showed there was no such single author behind the text. [[August Fick]] was convinced Homer as we have it went back to a core in the [[Aeolic dialect]], and recomposed it according to that dialect. No one was convinced he'd got to the 'real' Homer, any more than Matthew was necessarily a single author as opposed to the final editor of a text part of whose logia or sayings were later said to have been collected by a certain Matthew. What you are doing is ''Fisking'' wikipedia, which is forbidden. Publish your results in a reliable academic press, and you may just get past the rules. Good luck! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:28, 14 February 2014 (UTC) == Thank == you! But [[User:Shirt58/Historical and alternative views of Gospel of Matthew|some people]] don't think so. I'll be so bold as to predict the outcome of that matter will be: "We told you so". --[[User:Shirt58|Shirt58]] ([[User talk:Shirt58|talk]]) 13:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC) ==Hi== Greetings, does your (wide) field of expertise extend to Jewish Christianity? Supposed Hebrew Gospels and so forth? [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 15:02, 14 February 2014 (UTC) :I've read about it for half a century fairly extensively, but have no pretensions to expertise. My only feeling is that nothing can be known, most of what is said is a POV, and that, for wikipedia at least, we have no other option that to write article according to strict criteria of WP:RS, WP:Due, making them reflect the scholarly consensus, where ascertainable, while allowing leeway for nuancing dissent positions when they are not notably eccentric or fringe. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:21, 14 February 2014 (UTC) ::That's exactly what we need. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 17:11, 14 February 2014 (UTC) == Reference Errors on 17 February == [[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|35px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]]. I have '''automatically detected''' that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. {{#ifeq:1|1|It is|They are}} as follows: *On the [[:Khazars]] page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=595865360 your edit] caused a [[:Category:Pages with DOI errors|DOI error]] <small>([[Help:CS1_errors#Check_.7Cdoi.3D_value|help]])</small>. ([{{fullurl:Khazars|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AReferenceBot%7CReferenceBot%5D%5D}} Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F595865360%7C{{Replace|Khazars| |%20}}%5D%5D Ask for help]) Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. 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Thanks, <!-- User:ReferenceBot/inform -->[[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]] ([[User talk:ReferenceBot|talk]]) 00:38, 18 February 2014 (UTC) :If you can automatically detect an error, you can automatically fix it, bothead.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:17, 18 February 2014 (UTC) == Belated MC == more than one year and one month late old chap. better late than never but not if all you are going to do is pen some tired cliches lacking accents (with a weak pun as a sorry bone to chew on). i'm afraid that my grey matter is not what it used to be after firing out a couple of life projects and holding on for dear life lest i lose track of one of these celestially bound bodies whose adventures never cease to amaze me. take care and if some cells should miraculously regenerate with time, i will see you again soon. [[User:Tiamut|<b><font color="#B93B8F">T</font><font color="#800000">i</font><font color="#B93B8F">a</font><font color="#800000">m</font><font color="#B93B8F">u</font><font color="#800000">t</font></b>]]<sup>[[User_talk:Tiamut|talk]]</sup> 20:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC) ::I began to worry about the symptomology suggested by the pleonasm of ''tired'' clichés, until I realized as per some thread above, that the clichés in question must be pneumatically endowed ('tire-d', no gross vulgarity intended) and keep running by sheer inertial momentum. Then of course I thought of [[pun|Walter Redfern]]'s doughty labours on the subject. I'm a re-tired cliché, as is most of the world, keeping faith with [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+1:9&version=NKJV the wisdom of Ecclesiasticus]. Don't worry: cells regenerate. Unfortunately, those ([[Abu Ghraib]], [[Camp 1391]]'s cells etc. ) of the degenerate hegemons, under whose imperial sway we are expected to accommodate ourselves, grow apace as well, and the grey that matters ([http://books.google.com.au/books?id=EQ05WYmuCz0C&pg=PA35 Graham Greene]) is whitewashed by the manichaistic simpletons who would reduce all the niceties of perception into a duelling chess-match of simplistic dualisms. There! I've matched your ellipticism, and my Sunday morning exercise in rhetoric is done! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:14, 23 February 2014 (UTC) == Wording == Hi. You are correct on what you wrote in your edit summary [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli%E2%80%93Arab_conflict_in_Hebron&diff=597077300&oldid=597075900 here]. But I think the wording was used for the whole part, not only that about the occupation. However, all of the points there, except for collective punishment, is undisputed. So maybe it is better to have it like it is now but change to "and what they describe as collective punishment". Any thoughts? --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 20:03, 25 February 2014 (UTC) :Hi. Well, collective punishment is a subset of 'military occupation' (which no one doubts: it is surrounded on all sides: a few days ago a major clash occurred when Palestinians tried to protest their lack of access to their businesses and residences on Shuhada Street). I always prefer the inclusive term: put the subterm in and someone will ask for a specific source on 'collective punishment' at Hebron. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::I take your notes seriously enough to reexamine my own quick reply. The result is I've done an extensive preliminary edit there, with links to several books that would be useful as background. For the moment I'm busy, but I hope the edit wasn't messy and that the passage you mention is improved. One link was broken and had to be replaced. Regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :::Just as a reminder how absurdly ticklish otherwise normal descriptive terminology can appear to some. A Palestinian posted [http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/26/israels-bubble-of-denial/ some days back] a note on his Facebook page about living 'under occupation'. The Israeli police hauled in him for an interrogation, since this was evidence for 'incitement', i.e. a crime of hatred. Using even internationally accepted legal terminology is now interpreted in some quarters as an incitement to race hatred. Phew![[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :: True but when it was separated as before, I think it gives another view. You have formulated it great now. There was some problem with the formatting but I have corrected it now. :: I read about the protests and actually thought to add it here but other things took up my time. I had not read about the other case, which is an astonishing one. --[[User:IRISZOOM|IRISZOOM]] ([[User talk:IRISZOOM|talk]]) 20:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC) == Archiving == Nishidani, I've now set up automatic archiving for this enormous talk page of yours. It will '''never''' archive the "The West Bank/Judea and Samaria Problem" section at the top of this page. Some details: * I've given you a nice fat archive size of 250K. That should put off for a while the evil day when you run out of archives. * I've set it to keep at least 20 threads on this page, and to keep at least the most recent 180 days of discussion. In other words, the archiving bot will not be too aggressive. * You can tweak these parameters yourself by editing the top bit of this page (but I think they're reasonable). * It is possible to prevent, or just delay, the archiving of any specific section. See [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MiszaBot/Archive_HowTo#Delaying_or_preventing_archiving_of_particular_threads here], or drop a note on my talk page. The archiving bot will not bother you with any notifications that it's done its work (none of my doing, that's just how the bot is set up). So don't be surprised when you find bits of your talk page have disappeared down the archive plug hole. And with a bit of luck, neither of us should have to worry any more (at least, not for a few years) about archiving this page. Regards, --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 12:14, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :Well, the quiet performer (genius) comes to my aid once more. Thanks mate. I was thinking of you the other day while reading [[Richard Flanagan]]' s recent novel ''The Narrow Road to the Deep North,'' which I venture to suggest as a minute token of thanks you might profitably read (in memoriam, etc.) Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::Flanagan is a lucky man, at least his father talked to him. I never had any sense of love or affection from my father; I think in those days it was the duty and obligation of a macho male to support his wife and children, which he did do, but nothing beyond that. He was so badly affected psychologically by the war that he was an extremely difficult man to live with. I just mostly experienced criticism, with outbursts of fearsome rage from time to time, upsetting everyone in sight, especially my poor mother. It tends to inhibit conversation when you feel you're treading on eggshells all the time, never quite knowing when something might trigger an outburst. ::I think I'll leave the book for a while. I did read a few books by survivors after my father died, which left me feeling very depressed (not immediately after - I had my hands full between a demanding job and the large amount of work needed to wind up my father's estate, mostly hindered rather than helped by the Scottish solicitors, who charged the usual outrageous monopoly fee). In very belated reply to a query of yours a long time ago – although he said almost nothing about the war, I do know that he was in the RAF, not the army, and that he rose to the exalted rank of corporal before he was captured. Regards --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 15:06, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :Flanagan was lucky, and the exception (another was our family tailor, who went through the camps and yeet managed to retain a deep urbane serenity), and my brother's close woman friend, whose grandmother survived Auschwitz, and was subject to the kind of rage your father felt -her grandchild, raised by the woman, managed to survive her own childhood to become one of the most extraordinarily empathetic, helpful persons I've ever met. Most, paralleling Holocaust survivors, Jews and Gypsies alike, could never bear to speak of what they experienced. Without belabouring the point perhaps you might catch the film just done on [[Eric Lomax]] [[The Railway Man (film)|The Railway Man]]. I heard some months ago a very insightful interview with his widow [http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/the-railway-man/5102146 here]. Lomax, as an officer, it should be added, was luckier than yours (since as a corporal he wasn't of officer rank). In his memoirs, [[Weary Dunlop]] has pretty damning things to say about the officer class among the POW ranks.(I too had to wrest our estate from lawyers who refused to settle it because of the lucrative income they earned managing it. Just in time: the lawyer society crashed soon after and brought down hundreds of families in the ensuing bankruptcy.) Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:49, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::Lomax's was one of those depressing books. I haven't seen the film, but I did see something on the television quite recently about the film (can't remember which channel it was) and [http://thefriend.org/article/forgiveness-on-the-river-kwai/ this piece] in [[the Friend]] magazine (anything by [[John Lampen]] is well worth reading, BTW). Incidentally, my father never expressed any anger or resentment expliicitly against the Japanese; occasionally, when the subject of stammering came up, he would joke, "the Japanese cured me of my stammer". On the subject of damning remarks, my father was scathing about two groups of men he encountered in his career at ICI: the public school old boy network and arts graduates. So you'd probably have gotten it with both barrels! --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 17:42, 26 February 2014 (UTC) :::One Changi POW I knew came back as a cheer-leader for Japan, and couldn't wait for the day they would triumph as a superpower! My father told me, when I started to learn the language, that the most racist anti-Japanese soldiers in his club tended to be pen-pushers who'd never actually fought in the Pacific War, and just swaggered with antipathy as they bullied their way through the country when it was occupied. My uncle, who had fought them, agreed. Your dad perhaps hated Arts Graduates because they stocked the POW uni courses, teaching men obscure subjects like Sanskrit, Malay, Greek history, Latin prose etc. to distract them from thoughts of starvation. Well my reading suggestions were rather inappropriate. It's just that from age 6, I found books enabled me to read myself out of a barrage of put-downs and humiliations - they taught you to disinvest in yourself sufficiently to see the trouble or pain behind the insult. Not much consolation if one missed out on a fundamental, like having a father. I've often noted, initially with surprise, that exceptionally good fathers suffered from bad parentage, and coped by reversing, rather than, as is the class norm, repeating the pattern. Cheers, mate, and thanks.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:03, 26 February 2014 (UTC) ::::On arts graduates, I doubt it. He said he was shocked, when he got to university after the war, how little work the arts students had to do compared to the scientists (so he might have let you off if you were putting in 12 hours a day in the uni library). Then you have to remember that ICI was a science- and engineering-based company, and he was infuriated by arts graduates being promoted to positions where they didn't have a clue about what they were managing. Similarly he thought the ex-public school types tended to get promoted beyond their ability. On the other hand, he did have a high regard for [[Paul Chambers (industrialist)|Paul Chambers]], an ex-public school boy and the first non-scientist to be head of ICI. It's partly why I went for the science courses at school (my choice, not his), plus I could see that my father, as a scientist, was earning a lot more money than most of the other kids' dads. In any case I just enjoyed doing maths and science! The point you make about seeing the pain (or whatever) behind the insult (or indeed, any offence) is true indeed. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 19:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC) == Almost a first == [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:People_of_Jewish_descent&diff=597415887&oldid=597407579 This] is a first indeed. We did come to some good compromises, but I don't think we ever agreed on anything before. [[User:Debresser|Debresser]] ([[User talk:Debresser|talk]]) 00:57, 28 February 2014 (UTC) :Well, I'm not surprised. You do understand the force of rational arguments - that's been clear to me for years. I don't care whether editors' private opinions clash with my own, as long as there is room for reasonable compromises, based on honest attention to what one's interlocutor is saying, and a decent respect for the rules in this madhouse. Cheers. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC) == Khazar theory of Ashkenazi ancestry == Hi - with this edit[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Khazar_theory_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry&diff=next&oldid=590505612] I'm guessing that you moved material from another article but didn't put a link to that article in your edit summary (that needs to be fixed with a dummy edit to avoid copyvio). My problem is that you didn't bring over the references, so we have Brook 2009 and Brook 2010 without a clue as to what these are. I've just reverted someone who replaced one of those with a website (which at least was selling his book among others, so some relevance). Can you please fix this? Thanks. And, um, Sheba? [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 15:44, 1 March 2014 (UTC) ::Mea culpa on all counts. I've done part of your request. What's the 'copyvio' in copying one's own wiki work from one page to another. Five months late on Sheba, sheba! (/I don't know if any of your dialects uses sheeba in the sense of 'cripes, jeepers, creepers') Work load. I'm doing a long analysis of an obscure oriental book. Will get to it when time allows, unless infarction intervenes. Thanks for the heads-up, Doug, as youngsters here write.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) :::If it's all yours, I guess that's ok, I don't recall our guidelines mentioning what we do in that case. I tend to say something in the edit summary but sometimes forget when I'm copying my own text. I hope your mention of infarction isn't a medical concern. Nope, never heard sheeba used that way. But the US is a huge place, loads of phrases that are only used on one locality, ditto on a smaller basis the UK, the only 2 English speaking countries I know well. Don't worry about Sheba. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 19:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) == Reticent to... == Ah, Nishidani, this time I must disagree. "Reticent to" is attested in English since 1875 according to the OED: <blockquote> 2. Reluctant to perform a particular action; hesitant, disinclined. Chiefly with about, or to do something.<br> <small> 1875 Rep. Sel. Comm. Condition of South (43rd U.S. Congr. 2 Sess.) 15 The State registrar was just as reticent to give us information.<br> 1932 Daily Capital News & Post Tribune (Jefferson City, Missouri) 14 Feb. 11 a/6 They were reticent about leaving it [sc. home].<br> 1948 Jrnl. Amer. Folklore 61 29 Dreams, promptings of the spirit, and peep-stones have all combined to make the reticent girl give in to the proposals of a polygamous suitor.<br> 1959 Times 8 Oct. 13 Having..informed my employer of my impending call-up, he is naturally reticent to improve my position.<br> 2008 F. Kellerman Mercedes Coffin xxxviii. 311 She knows he'd be reticent to hire a lawyer to defend her?<br> </small> </blockquote> It seems to have begun in America, though, but did make it into The Times by 1959. In all other aspects of the discussion we concur, of course.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 17:31, 1 March 2014 (UTC) ::Well, screwmecadaverous, Alf, yu've cort me by the short and curlies, ...no!fuckit! ::'''Reticent''' :::*'reserved, disinclined to speak freely; given to silence or concealment.'J.A.Simpson, E.S.C. Weiner (eds), [[Oxford English Dictionary]],2nd ed. 1989, Clarendon Press, Oxford vol.XIII,p.777 col.2 will admit of no example of 'reticent' in the sense of 'reluctant'. So, stuff that up ya septic tank pipe and smoke it:) Doug's just given me some grief on the Khazar page, and I need a feed and a bottle of Barolo before I come to my senses! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:27, 1 March 2014 (UTC) == Passive voice == You may find this of interest. In the mid-1980s, when I worked at Al-Fajr Newspaper, a friend of mine was teaching English in a village in the West Bank. She wanted to do a lesson on active and passive voice, and for this purpose she photocopied reports of the same clashes between Palestinians and Israeli forces, as published in both the Jerusalem Post and Al-Fajr English Weekly. Where the JP routinely reported that "x Palestinians were injured", "y houses were demolished", AF reported that "Israeli forces injured x Palestinians, destroyed y homes". It's a lesson her pupils never forgot! Happy weekend. <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 21:35, 7 March 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Roland. 'Old' newspaper hands know these tricks, and it's a pity much of it appears to be lost on contemporary readers. Actually, I don't mind the passive voice in historical narrative. It's not uncommon, but there's no reason why one can't accompany it with the instrumental ''by''. 'z Palestinians were injured by Israeli forces'. [[Karl Kraus (writer)|Karl Kraus]] attributed the disasters of Shanghai, and much of WW1, to slipshod journalism with its endemic solecisms, wrote most of the nearly 1000 issues of Die Fackel to hammer away on this point: that the sanity of reality is dependent on extremely precise respect for grammar and usage (pity the poor bugger thought it necessary to convert to Catholicism: it gave his critique, in crucial moments, like his attack on Herzl, an antisemitic edge. He never had the good fortune to listen to Eric Hobsbawm's mother's advice to her son on identity, which I'm sure you're familiar with). Have a good one yourself, Roland. Best [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:41, 7 March 2014 (UTC) ::And I wonder what Hobsbawm's mother would have said to the eminent and learned saxophone player... <span style="font-family: Papyrus">[[User:RolandR|RolandR]] ([[User talk:RolandR|talk]])</span> 23:45, 7 March 2014 (UTC) :::Ha!) In any case, Eric Hobsbawm, [http://books.google.it/books?id=y2gyK5PxNB8C&pg=PA24 ''Interesting Times,''] p.24 (read on through to 25). [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:56, 8 March 2014 (UTC) == Your sermon a performative demonstration of your point == ...because it could have been preached equally well on Saturday morning as [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&diff=prev&oldid=598901811 on Sunday]. Nicely done.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 23:06, 9 March 2014 (UTC) == Thank you == {| style="border: 1px solid #999999; background-color: #FFFFFF}; width:100%;" |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Socratic Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Socratic Barnstar.png|100px]]}} |rowspan="2" | |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#9D741A; font-family:Comic Sans MS, Arial, Helvetica;" | '''The Socratic Barnstar''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your wisdom in the analysis of the mess that was the Gilabrand AE case, and the wisdom that your comments continue to show. The Israel-Palestine area needs more editors like you. [[User:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Teal" face="Tahoma">'''HJ&nbsp;Mitchell'''</font>]] &#124; [[User talk:HJ Mitchell|<font color="Navy" face= "Times New Roman">Penny for your thoughts? </font>]] 17:56, 10 March 2014 (UTC) |} :That's deeply appreciated. But your last edit has a summary 'sleep deprived' (the spelling 'derpived' proves the truth of it) and I worry that this might be misread against you, however. Malice or reading between the lines for non-existent fine print to prove an unempirical apriori suspicion, is commonplace in the I/P area, and bad blood is easy to stir at the slightest appearance of administrative appreciation. Admins must, of necessity, keep all us us at an arm's distance (I wanted to write 'yard' to increment the distance between us peons and the neutral board of directors and admins, but didn't because it was the standard term in Shakespeare's day, in the KJB, and current till Dickens' time, for penis!). My work there was not so much about Gilabrand: I have a long term scepticism about the 'readability' of diffs on a subject as evidence for the court. Unless one knows the context, they can prove very very tricky. Though it risks [[WP:TLDR]], we peons in such cases should assist arbs by doing the legwork and contextualizing each diff in an evidence report, because not to do so, is to assume they capture what is at stake. It's particularly important in sensitive areas. To expect admins, who can't be familiar with every topic area, to rake through subtle sequences and figure what is going on, is to expect inhumane energies, and demand that they give up their off-wiki lives. Thanks, in any case, and happy somnia! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:17, 10 March 2014 (UTC) == Amalek edit you made == "Armenians as Amalekites: Fixing an horrendous confusion of displaced sourcing, WP:OR. If you edit in anything, please follow standard principles.". This was not my work. I restored material a new editor deleted without cause or comment. The critique is meant for the prior editor that added that material. [[User:Alatari|Alatari]] ([[User talk:Alatari|talk]]) 15:41, 11 March 2014 (UTC) :Sorry for any confusion there. You were quite right to restore that material, which should never have been removed. My edit summary referred to whoever did the original compilation. Thanks, and cheers.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:57, 11 March 2014 (UTC) ::You are amazingly fast at reorganizing that to a better form. Your page says you retired. You are addicted... Thanks for all the work you've put in. [[User:Alatari|Alatari]] ([[User talk:Alatari|talk]]) 16:35, 11 March 2014 (UTC) == 1517 pogroms == Hi, You participated to a discussion on that article. A brief opinion would be welcome [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:1517_Safed_pogrom here]. [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 17:54, 16 March 2014 (UTC) :Thank you. I forgot about the word opinion... I will try to take care of this !!! [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 19:25, 21 April 2014 (UTC) == Talkback == {{Talkback|Al Ameer son|mayor/governor}} {{Talkback|Al Ameer son|mayor/governor}} <div style="background-color: #BBDDFF; border:1px solid #4169E1; padding:6px 4px"><!-- --> [[File:Nuvola apps edu languages.svg|left|18px]] Hello, Nishidani. You have '''new messages''' at [[User talk:Ojh2|Ojh2's talk page]]. <small>--09:41, 18 May 2014 (UTC)</small></div>{{z1}}<!-- Template:Talkbacktiny --> == Mongoloid Khazars == Although you were right to remove that silly passage about Khazars being more mongoloid in a certain region, I'd like to bring your attention to [http://books.google.ca/books?id=hEuIveNl9kcC&q=mongoloid#v=onepage&q=mongoloid&f=false this]. Notice the beginning of page 4. [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 23:19, 25 April 2014 (UTC) :Thanks for that note. I've added a note re skulls, as you will see.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:23, 26 April 2014 (UTC) ==Things to be done/Notes to self (or what pieces are left of that hypothetical entity== *Huldra trans [[Talk:Bardala‎]] *[[Sabah]] as per promise to Doug Weller *[http://books.google.com/books?id=GkbzYoZtaJMC&pg=PA276 Abu Iyad] as per promise to Al Ameer *[[The Ashkenazi Jews/Khazarian origins theory]] *[[Werner Muensterberger]] * 中里介山 and also his 大菩薩峠, which have no wiki article. ('to call him Dickensian would be utterly inadequate, to call Dickens "Kaizanian" would be to flatter him greatly' [[William E. Naff]], ''The Kiso Road: The Life and Times of Shimazaki Tōson,'' University of Hawai'i Press, 2011 p.4.) [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC) (2)'To call Dickens "Kaizanian" would be an over-statement of his considerable gift for for creating memorable characters, while to call Kaizan "Dickensian" would be a seriously misleading understatement. This richness became all the more impressive when set against the national drive towards human standardization.' ibid. p.430 To be kept close to the bottom of this page because I forget the agenda as time scurries on [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC) **e.g.<ref="Horowitz" />{{rp|122-3}} [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:20, 11 March 2014 (UTC) == Systemic bias or systemic angst == We use only mainstream newspaper sources for the I/P area updates. A half a day ago, Kerry touched on the risks Israel ran of becoming an apartheid state unless progress was made in serious peace talks. Well, in fifteen hours, [[Al Jazeera]] noted it almost immediately, as did the [[Jerusalem Post]], [[The Times of Israel]] and [[Front Page Magazine]]; it took a mere 5 for [[Haaretz]] to note the fact; [[Ynet]] registered the news after 7 hours. The NYTs is still twiddling its thumbs, trying to work out how to spin this, on its not-yet-breaking news breaking news page. On the other hand it has the latest updates on sanctions against Russia, and was first off the block to shout that 'Egypt Sentences More Than 680 to Death'. On important I/P information, every dot and comma must be cross-checked, every stylistic nuance, every detail in the ostensible troublesome balance sheet must be calculated. In short, why bother?[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :Perhaps they are waiting for the inevitable push back and State Department "clarification" before they go to print. To be fair to the NYT, the only mainstream US publication I can see running the story is [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html The Daily Beast] (while all the main European and Israeli media are running it). The other point to note is that it has taken the US government 4 years to acknowledge something that was [http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/feb/03/barak-apartheid-palestine-peace stated by the Israeli defence Minister in 2010]. I guess it speaks to the evolving limits of acceptable discourse on the I/P conflict in the US. From what I recall, Chomsky's [[propaganda model]] posits that liberal media like the NYT set the limits of what is acceptable discourse in a society so it is not surprising that they are [http://mondoweiss.net/2014/04/service-agenda-editors.html on the front line of that debate with regards the IP conflict]. [[User:Dlv999|Dlv999]] ([[User talk:Dlv999|talk]]) 15:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks for that, Dlv. I noted it here because these things affect I/P wikiwork, which one hopes is the one global medium that, by its intrinsic logic, rebuffs the idea that reportage need suffer from a tactical incompleteness in coverage. Actually, what is odd is that as opposed to the NYTs articles, which are as dreadful as the negotiating imbalance, (protests couldn't get them to change Jodi Rudoren's statement that the Golan heights was in Israel) the [[New York Review of Books]] consistently carries very strong statements, in the books it reviews and the reviewing editors' comments, on Israel, books, mostly written by the Jewish or Israeli intelligentsia, that cover far more meticulously the hidden or silenced (what the Japanese call 黙殺, [[Mokusatsu|killing by silence]]) dimension, the facts on the ground, historical and contemporary. Clearly, therefore, the daily print version pitches its reportage to Middle American perceptions and desires an 'even-handedly' pro-Israeli spin, whereas the NYRB knows full well that its highly literate subscribers, Jewish or otherwise, are far more informed about the area than what is acceptable in 'public' discourse, and won't take the usual dose of suburban pabula. I can't quite figure out how this dissonance works for any self-respecting journalist at his newsdesk: commercial elements evidently dictate the distinction, but it sits very oddly. All the news that is fit to print is carefully snippeted out in one outlet, and studiously crammed into the other, depending on the constituency. The right hand knows what the left is doing, and vice-versa. Fascinating.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:38, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :::Coverage-wise, perhaps things are changing somewhat as a result of people like [http://www.law.cuny.edu/faculty/directory/shamas.html Diala Shamas] and things like the [http://www.btselem.org/video/cdp_background B'Tselem’s Camera Project]. Citizen journalism with the added bonus of occasionally getting shot, just like real journalists. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 16:45, 28 April 2014 (UTC) ::::True, everything's now covered, but little is still widely reported. While watching the clock to see how long it would take the NYTs to get over the angst and convey the gist of Kerry's remarks, I noted that its most emailed article this week is on Tony Blare's remark that [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/world/europe/britain-blair-speaks-out-on-islamic-extremism.html?src=rechp 'the spread of Islamic extremism “represents the biggest threat to global security of the 21st century.'] Maybe, but in the meantime, dealing with the real world, I emailed him years ago in Jerusalem to see if he could ensure that one more IDF uprooting of a solar-powered electrical grid for a khirbeh where a few hardscrabble farmers south of Hebron live could be reversed. He had been reported as having visited the area. and, after all, he is paid a reported $million bucks as special envoy of the [[Quartet on the Middle East]] to improve communication between the parties. Nothing happened. It's not the sort of practical thing than politicians think sufficiently attention-getting, I guess. Give me the [[Ezra Nawi]]s of this world any day, who merit the Nobel Prize that chap in the White House refuses to bother returning. History is what elites mess with, or mess up: the redemption of modernity is that those who suffer from its consequences can now write what really happens (which of course the elites will never read). Sorry for this blog. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 18:50, 28 April 2014 (UTC) :::::Well, unless I've missed something, the NYTs wasn't waiting for a State Dep. "clarification" but rather for [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/29/world/middleeast/kerry-apologizes-for-remark-that-israel-risks-apartheid.html Kerry's inevitable apology] fo saying what every analyst in Israel or elsewhere knows as the logical consequence of indecision.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:30, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::* ''The New York Times'' in an instance of being the newspaper of [http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/04/24/nytu-a24.html false record.] ::::::* [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html Kerry:] "''A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second-class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state.''" Now, as theoretically each state of the two-state solution could practise apartheid, it would be interesting to know how that is going to be prevented; non-Jewish citizens of Israel become citizens of the Palestinian state and vice-versa? Also, it would be interesting to hear Kerry explain what would be so bad about a non-apartheid unitary state which is the state of all its citizens rather than being "the state of the Jewish people." ::::::* [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/27/exclusive-kerry-warns-israel-could-become-an-apartheid-state.html Kerry:] ''Kerry also said that at some point, he might unveil his own peace deal and tell both sides to “take it or leave it.”'' Oh right! No marks for guessing whether his plan would be taken or left by either side. ::::::<span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 15:03, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::: I hope that my editing is acceptable here, otherwise, please do not hesitate and delete it. In my opinion, a unitary state cannot succeed. Both sides have bad records concerning minorities. The "[[Price tag policy]]" criminals are repeatedly evading the law enforcement, which is a shame for Israel. Unfortunately the situation is not improving. The poor Israeli election system give the small parties a lot of political force and the voters majority does not have a say. On the other hand, Israelis are looking at the current Syrian war, and would not accept a solution of a unitary state, which will possibly mimick such quarrels. [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 18:06, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Please don't apologize for editing here or on other talk pages. We are all equal before wikilaw, and your rights are those of everyone else. This is not a coterie enclave.The PTP incidents are quite acceptable hazing. Having your land systematically and literally stolen as '(foreign)state land' in contravention of the Geneva Conventions is what is intolerable. But this is not the place to discuss these matters.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::Don't all countries have bad records concerning minorities, with the possible exception of...no, can't think of one. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 18:10, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Now, come on, Sean. Some countries are run by minorities that have bad records concerning majorities but the minorities are treated quite well, being in charge of everything.&mdash; [[User:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|alf laylah wa laylah]] ([[User_talk:Alf.laylah.wa.laylah|talk]]) 18:15, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Good point! <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::So this isn't about the widespread geographical distribution of records by comedians that make racist jokes about minorities. Nevermind then. It would be a bit hypocritical of me to criticize countries being run by minorities that have bad records concerning majorities because it was that kind of shameful behavior that helped to make the country I was born in rich enough so that eventually, many years later, they could pay for my entire education without it costing me a penny, giving me the freedom to live anywhere I want, while a decolonised African peer had to do what they were told for several years to pay back their government grants. No fair. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 19:55, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::But, unless transfer of nationality or location is being considered, then the two states resulting from the two-state plan would themselves have minority populations. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 19:22, 29 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::Should say that I suspect that what is in the pipeline by way of solving Israel's "demographic problem", attempts at turning Jordan into The Palestine State so far having failed, is the creation of a bantustan or two on the minimum territory possible with transfer of citizenship for Israel's non-Jewish population. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 11:12, 30 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::That will never happen. You cannot by an act of parliament strip 20% of the citizenry of their native rights, constitutionally, or before the world, which is ready to ignore most violations of international law, but not a flagrant imposition of apartheid. There has always been a very neat distinction here between what you calculate you can get away with and what you can't. When Obama threw in the towel the other day, remarking:'we haven't seen the political will to actually make tough decisions', he thought he was commenting on the other two parties. He was actually revealing the defect in his, Kerry and American foreign policy: the lack of a political will to make a '''tough''' decision. A juridically fair peace requries more of Israel than it does of the disiecta membra we call Palestine, and that is why there will never be a negotiated settlement, except via an act of treason by the reps of the latter, which would carry the death penalty. So, 5 decades on, one will have one state.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::::In this case, depending on how the selling is done and how many countries supporting the Palestinians go through regime changes before an agreement is reached, the answer to what can be got away with will probably be, quite a lot. Israel is facing a "demographic timebomb" and politicians such as Tzipi Livni are urging the necessity of implementing a two-state solution in order to avoid it. How will implementing a two-state solution circumevent the impending demographic timebomb? For it to work, you would have to increase the number of Jewish Israelis eligible to vote in Knesset elections, decrease or slow the rate of growth in the number of non-Jewish Israelis eligible to vote, or both. Implementing a transfer of voting eligibility of non-Jewish Israelis from Israel to the new Palestinian state would help to achieve the latter options. When it comes to international protests, I should think that those who take the homeland view, that Israel is the homeland of the Jews and the new Palestinian state will be the homeland of the Palestinians, are already well down the road to accepting that ethnic Jews will be privileged in Israel (that is, if they're not already there). That would, of course be to implement apartheid in Israel proper, or, if you prefer to give it another name, "separateness". <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:37, 1 May 2014 (UTC) (Hope you'll indulge this comment, which was added after you requested people to stop adding to this thread) ::::::::::Which would be the best solution. The presence of minorities is like a quiet conscience that sits vigilantly in the noisy parliament of that national 'amour-propre' which, otherwise on its own, sounds the death-knell of civility. When Jesus wanted to warn his fellow Jews of the dangers of failing in charity the legend has it he cited the palmary behavior of a Samaritan, the arch-enemy of Judaism. Most of what is great about modern Europe came from its minorities, the most creative being the Jews. And Sean, point taken. But my generation grew up in relatively struggling postwar countries, which could nonetheless afford universal health care and free education to tertiary level, of which you too are a beneficiary. Alf's point was that, nowadays, with the great seismic shift, elites governing western democracies that are tens of times wealthier than they, or our societies were, in earlier decades, now demand that the majority pay through the nose for every service, and cark it if they can't pony up health insurance, while insisting that their failed speculative bets in derivatives be covered by the Federal Bank. In that sense, the elitarian minorities that now are the post-Keynsian default models, insist that governments, almost completely in their pockets, downsize to zero their redistributive functions. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 22:02, 29 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::: "''attempts at turning Jordan into The Palestine State so far having failed"''. I can understand that the Palestinians want to establish their state between the sea and the Jordan river, and no one has a right to tell them that their country is somewhere else. But how should we call the state of Jordan if [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan#Immigrants_and_refugees "''population of Palestinian origin constitutes about 67 percent of the Kingdom's population."''] ? . It make sense, that after a while, the 2 independent states, Palestine and Jordan , will merge, like the independent state of Texas who merged with the U.S.. <P>- "''You cannot by an act of parliament strip 20% of the citizenry of their native rights,"''. Yes, of course. These people should keep the Israeli citizenship, but what about their newborn babies? there is a precedent of British citizens, that their newborn babies are not inheriting the British citizenship, if the baby is born overseas.(I am not familiar with the details.) <P>- [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baqa_al-Gharbiyye#State_of_Israel "''Baqa al-Gharbiyye is separated from its West Bank sister city, Baqa ash-Sharqiyya (or Baqa East) by the Israeli West Bank barrier which in this section coincides with the Green Line.[16] As a result, a concrete wall topped with barbed wire runs through one neighbourhood."'']. Does not it make sense that the border will move such as both Baqa villages will be united within a Palestinian state? [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 20:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::When I wrote about attempts to turn Jordan into the Palestine state, I really had in in mind Jordan-is-Palestine proponents such as Ariel Sharon. For instance, [http://www.fmep.org/reports/special-reports/the-middle-east-in-the-shadow-of-war/sharon-and-jordan this] says: "Prime Minister Sharon's historical views of Jordan are, to say the least, troubling to those who rule in Amman today. How can it be forgotten that for many years Sharon was the most prominent voice in Israel favoring the proposition that "Jordan is Palestine." During Black September he sought unsuccessfully to win the government of Golda Meir to this view, advocating that Israel withdraw its support for King Hussein in his life and death battle against the PLO. In 1982, as minister of defense in the government of Menachem Begin, Sharon's star-crossed strategy in Lebanon included the relocation of Lebanon's Palestinian population, en masse, to Jordan." <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 16:00, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::: I respect Nishidani wish to end this discussion here. If you wish to, we may continue in your talkpage or in mine. [[User:Ykantor|Ykantor]] ([[User talk:Ykantor|talk]]) 18:32, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Thanks, but it's probably better to get back to building an encyclopedia. And I've realised that a major part of what I wrote above was based on a serious misunderstanding on my part, so I should shut my mouth before I make more of a fool of myself. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 21:30, 1 May 2014 (UTC) ::97 years ago, an Imperial power decided to give a European population persecuted by antisemitism territorial rights in Palestine. 90% of the native population disagreed: the majority of religious Jews were horrified. In 2017, some end to this must take place, if decency is to prevail. Israel must accept that its 78% of a land which it only possessed only 6% of in 1948, is a bounteous historical settlement, and a stupendous achievement, where its population thrives in a booming economy with cutting edge science and technology and a fair life for most. None of this has taken place in the travailled history of the original majority population which has been systematically robbed of its possessions and rights. All the rest is bullshit and details that, in discussion, become an undignified travesty of fundamental notions of decency (because miracles of justice are rare in human history: I know of only one: the British abolition of the slave trade). But this is not what the thread was about, and I think it should end here. Regards [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:44, 30 April 2014 (UTC) :::But the incident of the use of "apartheid" by Kerry just points to the fact that the situation is approaching critical mass insofar as the USA can no longer unilaterally support certain intransigent positions of the Israeli government. :::There are also internal pressures building in Israel, apparently, but, like Japan, the people put right-wingers in office. :::Once the USA has to start abstaining in UN votes regarding Israel, the behavior of the Israeli government will have to change rapidly, or turmoil will ensue. :::That, as I see it, is the crux of the matter at this juncture.--[[User:Ubikwit|<span style="text-shadow:black 0.09em 0.09em;class=texhtml"><font face="Papyrus">Ubikwit</font></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ubikwit| 連絡 ]]</sup><sub>[[Special:contributions/Ubikwit|<font color="#801818" face="Papyrus">見学/迷惑</font>]]</sub> 16:48, 1 May 2014 (UTC) The Guardian - Chris McGreal - [http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/14/john-kerry-israel-apartheid-analysis ''Kerry wasn't wrong: Israel's future is beginning to look a lot like apartheid''], 14 May 2014: :* ''In an interview late last year, Danon told me that there is not going to be a Palestinian state, and that Netanyahu shouldn't worry what the Americans think'' :* ''Danon says bluntly that he wants to take the bulk of West Bank land – Judea and Samaria, as it's known in Israel – while ridding the Jewish state of responsibility for governing the mass of Palestinians. "Long-term, I am not talking about annexing the Palestinians. My goal is to annex – or 'apply sovereignty', as I prefer to call it – to the land in Judea and Samaria with the minimum amount of Palestinians," he told me. "So, if I am doing the map, yes, I want the majority of the land with the minimum amount of Palestinians."'' <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 23:28, 14 May 2014 (UTC) ===Pt 2, strictly on the NYTs coverage=== Could any of the young whiz kids out there tell me where the New York Times reported the news that Martin Indyk might resign from his role as Special Envoy, which caused a flurry of articles all over Israel and in many foreign papers? Thanks [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:45, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :According to [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.588834 this] Haaretz article, the source for the story was some Israeli officials in Jerusalem. <span style="font-family: Perpetua, serif; font-size:120%">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;←&nbsp;&nbsp;[[User talk:ZScarpia | ZScarpia]]&nbsp;&nbsp;</span> 00:06, 15 May 2014 (UTC) (you may be interested in [http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/uploads/Documents/other/IndykKeynote20140508.pdf this transcipt] of a speech and question and answer session given by Indyk on 8 May at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy’s 2014 Weinberg Founders Conference) :Thanks for both Scarpy. I did get the Indyk leak bit into the relevant article when it came out. In any case, I'm now taking some time to see what the NYTs fails to, or is late in, cover(ing) here, and the pattern is quite fascinating.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:03, 15 May 2014 (UTC) ::On the NYT, but on a different topic, where [http://static.prisonplanet.com/p/images/february2014/white_paper.pdf the NYT is obviously not using its fact checkers, in order to fulfill a propaganda function]. --[[User:NSH001|NSH001]] ([[User talk:NSH001|talk]]) 21:26, 15 May 2014 (UTC) == Evildoer == [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]], I know you've spent a lot of time and said a lot on this AN/I case, but I hope you go to [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Proposed topic ban]] and either voice your support or opposition. From reading your statements, I think I know your position but right now, the voting could go any which way (topic ban, indefinite block, both) and since you made the original complaint, I think what you say will carry a lot of weight. As an editor who is continually and persistently reverted by Evildoer at every turn, I find myself in the peculiar position of speaking up for him, if he can work on his attitude and sourcing. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 01:20, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :If you saw me doddering down the street, and chumbling at the gums, Ma'am, you would not solicit me! I would have preferred, in any case, not to vote. I've lowered my sense of what is due, because some of those votes seem mechanical. I don't like ganging up, or even the appearance of ganging up. There are a lot worse editors in this area than E.d. On the other hand, he hasn' the faintest clue about how to read what's going on, or how to assess sources, and he consistently 'prevaricated': the point about using one's computer only at work, where he could consult the 4 sources, to gain time, and then saying he had read Dipont (re Romulus/Remus) and that his question was only 'rhetorical' only then to admit he never even looked at the 4 sources (i.e. Dipont). I've seen people permabanned for less (like myself!). Let's leave this up to a completely neutral arb, hopefully two or three, to assess the evidence and make an autonomous call as to what is due. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :: It's ironic that the two editors he most came in conflict with are asking for a lenient response in contrast to those who are unfamiliar with him. I see this happen sometimes on AN/I. I appreciate his interest in and passion for the subject, he is just so wedded to his POV, in came in conflict with the style of editing on Wikipedia. To be honest, I keep clear of topics I feel that strongly about, because I don't want to spend my time on Wikipedia fighting over these topics. It's easier to remain detached when you're editing subjects that are not tied to ones personal identity. IMHO. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 23:35, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :::Well, Liz, it's no skin off our noses to behave like gentlewomen! I too try to steer clear of topic I know a lot about, if only because it would be boring to just dollop in information. By editing areas one is ignorant of, one's unpaid work here becomes a constant learning experience. As to personal identity. Fortunate are those who have a clue as to who they are, other than what's on the ID card, if one has one. At least that's the psychoanalytic premise, and I underwrite it (though my signature is meaningless). Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 11:16, 7 May 2014 (UTC) == A piece of sanity on the Ukraine issues for wiki == You get endless bad reportage in mainstream newspapers. [[Counterpunch]] is not ''stricto sensu'' RS, but [http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/05/06/the-crisis-in-ukraine-2/ this article should be accepted].[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 17:32, 6 May 2014 (UTC) == Un peu de réconfort serait le bienvenu == * XX Amitiés, [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 17:40, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :Désolé. Wikipedia souvent me fait penser au proverbe: 'fais du bien à Bertrand, il te le rend en caguant.' I'ìve suggested we draw up a petition here. I'm not confident we can get enough I/P editors from all sides on board, but it's worth trying. This is not an ideological issue: we're supposed to be a community that, even in our disagreements, can see the merits of each other's work. Amitiés.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:42, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :Thank you Nish. :After all that I lived in 8 years I prefer stopping here. :Life is too short. [[User:Pluto2012|Pluto2012]] ([[User talk:Pluto2012|talk]]) 19:36, 6 May 2014 (UTC) ::It's not a lifetime obligation. One can always return. Whatever you decide, enough people here recognize the quality of your work to ensure that your edits here are taken seriously and stick. But it is good to also learn how to live outside of wikipedia, which is all duty, and hardly pleasurable. I saw ''La Môme,'' two nights ago, and can't get rid of those songs, all profoundly melancholic, but releasing springs of some indefinable joy in those who recall them. Summer is upon is, ([[Sumer Is Icumen In]]) and that is all that matters, so fuck/forget wikipedia and enjoy its air, fruits, landscape and lazy afternoons. Un abbraccio.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:47, 6 May 2014 (UTC) :::My comment above strikes me now as frivolous, given your distress. A suggestion. The cost of getting even the obvious onto wikipedia here is extremely high. You have a sufficiently wide and deep mastery of the events of 47-8, and control of the secondary literature either to do a doctorate on the subject, or a book. At least there, one is free of the absurd wastage of time and intelligence which working here exacts on many of us, and, this is the sweetener, one can actually thrive in the pleasure of giving one's own views, meticulously reasoned, without murmurs of [[WP:OR]] ruining one's liberty. I would suggest, if this 'defeat' of years of effort rankles, that you exercise that option. If successful, you then become a source for future wiki articles. If not, at least giving systematic shape to your own understanding of events will allow you the pleasures of a private sense of achieved synthesis. A good point of departure would be to map events minutely, after the declaration of the Partition Plan, against the borders outlined in late November 47 until May 14/15 1948, and systematically place each incident, '''within and without those borders''', chronologically, to determine who did what to whom (this is by no means clear from Morris 2004, for example, and in my view his thesis starts to wobble if one does this kind of analysis), listing attacks and casualties. In other words, writing a history of war that excludes all considerations of geopolitics, and outside historical agents, to concentrate exclusively on the struggle between the Yishuv and indigenous Palestinian Arab forces. Of course, please ignore this if, as I hope, you discover that there are better interests to pursue.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:22, 6 May 2014 (UTC) == Reference Errors on 6 May == [[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|35px|alt=|link=]] Hello, I'm [[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]]. I have '''automatically detected''' that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. {{#ifeq:1|1|It is|They are}} as follows: *On the [[:2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks]] page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=607342563 your edit] caused a [[:Category:Pages_with_broken_reference_names|broken reference name]] <small>([[Help:Cite_errors/Cite_error_references_no_text|help]])</small>. ([{{fullurl:2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks|action=edit&minor=minor&summary=Fixing+reference+error+raised+by+%5B%5BUser%3AReferenceBot%7CReferenceBot%5D%5D}} Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20%5B%5BSpecial%3ADiff%2F607342563%7C{{Replace|2013–14 Israeli–Palestinian peace talks| |%20}}%5D%5D Ask for help]) Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a [[false positive]], you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20{{subst</noinclude>:REVISIONUSER}}&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, <!-- User:ReferenceBot/inform -->[[User:ReferenceBot|ReferenceBot]] ([[User talk:ReferenceBot|talk]]) 00:31, 7 May 2014 (UTC) ==Sourcing== Hi Nishidani! I would ask you to reconsider the comment with which you reverted my edit at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alexandra_Aikhenvald&oldid=607347188&diff=prev]. I know about Aikhenvald as a linguist, but that is not even at issue here. [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|Bibliographies about living persons]] are not supposed to contain any unsourced information. The entire paragraph was unsourced, so it was appropriate to delete it. And so was your revert during which you added a source. Best, [[User:G Purevdorj|G Purevdorj]] ([[User talk:G Purevdorj|talk]]) 09:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC) :It is a matter of method. If you see something unsourced, you don't eliminate it (unless of course you have the area competence that tells you the statement or facts are absurd, contradictory, or false etc.) Were that the principle, almost 80% of wikipedia's content, if not more, would go down the gurgler. I wrote the passage you cancelled, because I know of her work on New Guinea languages, and even remembered an interview with her I heard in 2008. Editors have two options when they suspect something: (a) do a google search, which in this case (Aikhenvald+tok-pisin+manambu) would have immediately yield the source, or, if they are too busy, post a {{cn}} tag. I admit I was irritated that I had to go back and do that work, even if it cost me only a minute, hence my edit summary. But had I not by chance left that page, which I glanced at and edited just once, on my watchlist, your failure to check for sources and subsequent elision would have impoverished it, cancelled work by another editor, and left the general reader ignorant of a minor, but important detail. The page could be expanded significantly, also: she deserves better notice as one of the most outstanding linguists of modern times. One must always seek to enrich, rather than impoverish, articles in this fragile, randomly edited, digital encyclopedia. Regards.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:36, 7 May 2014 (UTC) == Thank you == {| style="border: 1px solid #999999; background-color: #FFFFFF}; width:100%;" |rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Socratic Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Socratic Barnstar.png|100px]]}} |rowspan="2" | |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color:#9D741A; font-family:Comic Sans MS, Arial, Helvetica;" | '''The Socratic Barnstar''' |- |style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I was meaning to thank you months ago but I forgot to. You've single handedly turned the [[Khazars]] article into one worthy of FA status. Not only is it free of edit wars now, but it's nice to be able to read one of my favorite articles without seeing it shrink or inflate with original research. :)))) [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 20:08, 12 May 2014 (UTC) |} Deeply appreciated, but I couldn't have gotten it into shape alone. I might have done a fair bit of the work, but it was an environment of several posters like yourself, Laszlo, Andrew and Jeepez (I hope I've forgotten no one, but at my age . .), ready to read closely, curb edit warriors, and check that constituted the ''sine qua non'' of anything accomplished there. Teamwork by people with a critical independence can do wonders, and no one main editor should forget that debt. Cheers [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:11, 12 May 2014 (UTC) == CFD discussion == [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]], since you edit in the broad area of the Middle East, I'd welcome your opinion in the discussion on the deletion of the Semitic peoples' categories. The question about these categories seems to hinge on whether or not the editor believes Semitic is correctly applied to people or if it should be restricted to describing certain topics, like language, geography or history. Please weigh in at [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 May 11#Category:People of Semitic descent]]. Thanks. <font face="Rage Italic" size="4" color="#800080">[[User:Liz|'''''L'''''iz]]</font> <sup><font face="Times New Roman" color="#006400">[[Special:Contributions/Liz|'''''Read!''''']] [[User talk:Liz|'''''Talk!''''']]</font></sup> 14:50, 13 May 2014 (UTC) == [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard]] == I don't want to be a headache but your experience with fringe theories are needed [[Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard#History of the Jews in Russia|here]]. [[User:Al Khazar|Khazar]] ([[User talk:Al Khazar|talk]]) 23:43, 14 May 2014 (UTC) == Query == Are there any maps uploadable for the disposition of Yishuv forces on the 13/14 May 1948 set against the Nov.30 Partition plan map? One exists, and can be viewed at 17.15 minutes into [[Salman Abu Sitta]]'s lecture on the Right of Return [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNW9dCDanho&sa=U&ei=nrx3U_L2I8aM7Qb9_YGwDg&ved=0CB4QtwIwAA&sig2=m57yJtS8bMhW1dM84MRujA&usg=AFQjCNEnZq6OuVkOJ_i3JasyGYjjTgfW4Q here]. His argument is that on the day of the 'Arab Invasion' , Yishuv forces were already outside the lines allocated to them. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 19:52, 17 May 2014 (UTC) == Notes for possible future edits == *New definition of nakba. <blockquote>a demonstration on '''Nakba Day—the anniversary of Israel’s Declaration of Independence in 1948'''. (Jonathan S. Tobin,[http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2014/05/21/was-nakba-shooting-another-al-dura-libel-israel-palestinians/ 'Was Nakba Shooting Another al-Dura Libel?,'] [[Commentary (magazine)|Commentary Magazine]] 21 May 2014.)</blockquote> *The problem with [[List of Israeli assassinations]] is that it is restricted so far to ordered killings, mostly admitted by the state actor. If the 15 May 2014 killings turn out to give the lie to the [[Pallywood]]<ref>Yossi Sarid, [http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.592275 'Holes in their backs,'] [[Haaretz]] 24 May, 2014.</ref> memes circulating, the following data, plus sources indicating the outcome of investigations, should be entered there. It parallels the [[Mohammad al-Dura]] incident, given the indeterminacy, save for one element: in the former, responsibility was admitted immediately, only to be denied later. In the latest incident, responsibility was denied, the disinformation on tampered footage deconstructed within days. {| class="wikitable sortable" |- ! style="width:8%;"|Date ! style="width:8%;"|Place ! style="width:18%;"|Target ! style="width:20%;"|Description !Action ! style="width:12%;"|Executor |- |May 15, 2014 |[[Beitunia]], [[West Bank]] |Nadeem Siam Nawara(17); Mohammad Mahmoud Odeh Salameh(16). A third student, Mohammed Aza, was shot through the lungs |Students |Shot dead in the back in two separate incidents (73 minutes apart) after a demonstration involving rock throwing outside Ofer Prison. |[[Israel Border Police]].<ref>Peter Beaumont,[http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/22/footage-palestinian-boys-shot-genuine-btselem 'Footage of Palestinian boys being shot is genuine, says Israeli rights group,'] [[The Guardian]], 22 May 2014.</ref><ref>Gili Cohen and Jack Khoury,[http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.592312 'New CNN footage of Nakba Day killings fuels debate over deaths,'] 22 May 2014.</ref ><ref>Ivan Watson, Kareem Khadder and Mike Schwartz, [http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/22/world/meast/israel-west-bank-shooting/ 'Father blames Israeli military in Palestinian teens' deaths,'] [[CNN]] 22 May 2014.</ref><ref>Jodi Rudoren, [http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/21/world/middleeast/palestinian-teenagers-video.html 'Video Renews Questions on Death of Young Palestinians,'] [[New York Times]], 20 May 2014.</ref> |}[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:31, 23 May 2014 (UTC) {{reflist|close=1}} == Israel - Palestine Conflict == It said at the top that you can only revert once every 24 hours on that page if you Edit it. You might be blocked now, you reverted twice! XD [[User:TDFan2006|The Toon Disney Guy]] ([[User talk:TDFan2006|talk]]) 11:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC) :What you did was self-evident vandalism. I/P articles are not disneyland, toon comics or a kindergarten sandpit. If you have legitimate objections that have missed the lynx-eyed gaze of a dozen long-term editors, address the talk page. If you wish to take this to A/1 read [[WP:Boomerang]]. Whatever, the mass removal of RS-sourced (4) material without warning is vandalism.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:03, 5 June 2014 (UTC) ::I've checked your record, and can find no evidence at a quick review of interest in anything other than cartoons and television, except one edit to that page which was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict&diff=prev&oldid=596899305 a drive-by tag plastering edit]. Please correct me if I err.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 12:28, 5 June 2014 (UTC) :::[[Hips Don't Lie|No,]] [[What If (Jason Derulo song)|that]] [[Number 1 (Tinchy Stryder song)|is]] [[Buzzin' (Mann song)|wrong,]] [[Forever (Drake song)|Dude!]] Also. Why are you bothered about that? [[WP:DICK|You don't need to be a dick]] about it. [[User:TDFan2006|The Toon Disney Guy]] ([[User talk:TDFan2006|talk]]) 07:34, 6 June 2014 (UTC) ::::[[Lil Bibby|Unlike you]], [[Beth Orton|I wasn’t born]] [[Yesterday|yesterday]]. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:55, 6 June 2014 (UTC) == JarlaxleArtemis == For the record, it absolutely is him - even down to denying his identity (he also denied that he was Grawp until that was proven). He reacts instinctively - any time anyone challenges his edits, he starts making unicode-infused, empty, cowardly threats against them. As if this had ever worked. This has been going on for ten years, since he was 15, and he hasn't changed a bit. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] ([[User talk:NawlinWiki|talk]]) 14:43, 9 June 2014 (UTC) :I'm deeply appreciative of the work you, and others like Malik, do in keeping this nonsense clear of pages. Jeez, I never really follow this stuff, but from 15-25 he's wasted a decade doing this? - ten of the best years of one's life, when one writes poems, reads impossibly dull tomes that turn out to be memorable for some gem one discovers or page-turning novels, treks through deserts, or along thin pathways in tropical forests, listens to the Beatles and Elvis, learns languages, travels the world, screws around, and up, goes to concerts to hear Richter, or watch Nureyev, works on a kibbutz, plays football and cricket, skulls and runs in long-distance events, almost gets murdered, carouses till dawn in good company every week in hundreds of pubs from London to Toronto to Los Angeles, and this kid's lost himself in fighting an ephemeral nanosecond war seated before a computer screen instead? It's profoundly sad because pointless. The state of Israel flourishes, and will continue to do so, whatever historians write, or angry POV pushers of the eternal panic-button of antisemitism or anti-antisemitism say, or do. I used to laugh when I saw the otherwise dumb message 'Get a life!' on the net. I now realize that it appears to be appropriate. Cheers and thanks.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC) ::And a big thank you from me also, to you :NawlinWiki, and Malik and Zero and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User+talk%3AHuldra all the others] who help keep the death threats etc off my page, Cheers to you! [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 23:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC) :::Good grief! I never realized you had that many. Take it as a backhanded compliment, sys(ter). By a quick calculation (no of death threats etc vs number of edits on Palestinian villages) it is empirical proof at last that you remain the most important and invaluable contributor to wikipedia's database on the Palestinian world.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 08:27, 10 June 2014 (UTC) ::::Of course I take it as a big compliment! :D But I really haven´t gotten the larges compliment yet; having socks named after you....I´m green with envy...: {{user|NishidaniDoesBadStuffToChildren}} :) Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 20:42, 30 June 2014 (UTC) ==Beitunia== The Beitunia shootings incident probably deserves its own article at some point given the coverage, although perhaps it's too soon. Anyhow, you may not have seen a more recent NYT article[http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/29/world/middleeast/israel-suspends-soldier-in-west-bank-shooting-investigation.html?_r=0] B'Tselem seem to be keeping track of the media reports.[http://www.btselem.org/in-the-media] <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 12:40, 10 June 2014 (UTC) :Thanks for the links. I've a whole file on that, thinking that it fits the criteria for a targeted killing but none of the earlier reports gave it as an instance of the same, until I noticed that, today, Human Right Watch reported its considered view that this consisted of a targeted killing. In that report, HRW lists quite a number of civilian killings that result from targeting practices with live fire during demonstrations, which however never figure in the usual lists of targeted assassinations, where the assumption is that there must be some Israeli testimony that the suspect was a 'militant'. This is just of course bias: one could add a large list of such killings that are not labelled that way ('targeted assassinations'), but they can't be added unless we have independent assessments classifying them that way. To note just another:- *October (24?) , 2001 *[[Tulkarm]] *[[Abdallah Jarousha]]. *Unknown. A businessman *Shot by Israeli snipers from Battalion 202 of the Paratroop Brigade, on suspicion of using a nearby telephone booth to regularly report Israeli positions. *[[IDF]](ref Chaim Levinson [http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.597922 'IDF officer promoted despite role in Palestinian's death,'] [[Haaretz]] 10 June 2014 ref>) One can't add that to the list, despite the fact that we know who gave the order (now Brig. Gen.) Roni Numa, who, Ofir, relayed the decision to 'neutralize' a Palestinian businessman (driving in a car with his wife and brother-in-law and children), to the two snipers who then shot him dead. It's the best documented example of the genre, but is not classified yet in the targeted assassinations lists. Indeed no internet search will tell you the day the incident occurred, nor the name of the person. Of the several thousand killed so far, on my reading, several hundred would fit that description of being deliberately targeted, though not militants. But we can't do [[WP:OR]] syntheses or draw conclusions. :As to the incident deserving a page, I have extensive downloads of reportage that would make that an easy job. But in the past I generally opposed temptations to follow the habit of using wikipedia to showcase individual incidents ([[Murder of Shalhevet Pass]], The [[Death of Asher and Yonatan Palmer]],[[Death of Yehuda Shoham]],[[Murder of Eliyahu Asheri]], [[Murder of Helena Rapp]], [[Murder of Koby Mandell and Yosef Ishran]], [[Murder of Neta Sorek and Kristine Luken]],[[Murder of Ofir Rahum]],[[Murder of Oleg Shaichat]],[[Murder of Yaron Chen]],etc.) because all of those articles were written by editors wishing to make a case, assign historic blame or blacken the other side, and the events mostly fail [[WP:Notable]]. I wrote [[Zion Square assault]] to test these editors, but the event took on a life of its own and was so widely reported that its inclusion on wiki became obligatory. Sound practice would suggest that a potential article [[The Murder of Nadim Nawareh and Mohammed Salameh]] can only be justified if reportage continues over several months, and it eventually is included or noted in the ongoing stream of academic books on the I/P world.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:29, 10 June 2014 (UTC) ::I like articles about individual incidents but rarely have time to work on them. They require so much research to ensure accuracy and balance. Done well I think they can be interesting and informative in the sense that they often encapsulate broader aspects, ripples of the conflict in microcosm, in the events that came before and after the incidents, the causes and effects. Unfortunately it seems to be almost impossible to do anything well in ARBPIA. I worked on [[Murder of Hatuel family]] for a while to see if I could make it better, but ended up walking away. I genuinely don't understand why editors would only write articles about certain incidents and not others based on the nature of the victims. What's the difference ? I mean I get it, I understand what is going on and why to a certain extent for those editors, but it doesn't make any sense to me. It's a pity that Wikipedia's coverage of the day to day things that make up the conflict for the people involved is so piss poor. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 4px 1px 3px;white-space:nowrap">'''[[User:Sean.hoyland|<font color="#000">Sean.hoyland</font>]]''' - '''[[User talk:Sean.hoyland|talk]]'''</small> 18:42, 10 June 2014 (UTC) :::Thanks. I hadn't thought about it from that angle, which I should have, given that I admire the microstory approach to history, as exemplified by the articles and monographs of [[Carlo Ginzburg]], for example. Perhaps I should reconsider an article like that. When I saw what was being done with the [[Death of Yehuda Shoham]], i.e., using a selective set of sources to underline the viviousness of Palestinians (I just noted because someone edited it, the article [[Deception: Betraying the Peace Process]] which should be deleted as a non-notable book whose agenda is to ignore what systematic studies show, by the way - same purpose on wiki), I stepped in, and it was a bit of a firefight, but in the end (haven't checked recently) managed to contextualize it historically in the flow of violence on ''both'' sides during that week, and the political consequences. I think that it should be obligatory to do this on all articles of this kind. It's not impossible because of ARBPIA, but because of source bias. We know much more from newspapers about Israeli victims on average than we do of Palestinian victims, who are lucky to get mentioned by name, while articles that deal with close background focus tend to be well informed on the Israeli context, and less so on the Palestinian context. [[Murder of Shalhevet Pass]] is a good example (I can't remember if anyone has edited into it the fact that Israeli politicians were so disgusted by the extreme media pressure the Hebron settlers put on them to turn up for the burial and transform it into a signature day for Israel's victimization, that several in the end boycotted the ceremony. It's in the sources, but those who edit the page appear to prefer to coast over it. :::As for the editors, if I may hazard a remark, restricting my remarks to bad editors from the ostensibly 'pro-Israeli' side, many of them are raised within an ideology dominated by the historical fact of anti-semitism, which is a eurocentric disease, and Zionism which was originally premised on the idea that indigenous Palestinians could be omitted from the picture. [[Victor Klemperer]] caught the syndrome back in his diaries in the early 30s when he, if my memory doesn't err, likened what would happen to Palestinians, they would be forced historically to play the role of wild Indians being shot out of history in an endlessly popular Hollywood storyline of the 'conquest of the West', untinctured by [[Karl May]]'s romantic defence of the noble savage. Both my parents' generation and mine watched endless Hollywood movies where the historical atrocities of the white conquest were ignored, while the indigenous victims of what was a kind of partial genocide by an invader, were depicted as a murderous bloodthirsty savages, always to blame. This scotoma has been revived in the post 9/11 storyline of terrorism (which of course does exist), while dying out in Westerns, and therefore 'it does make sense' to me, that they cannot see the obvious (IOTTMCO as John Lanchester wrote recently in the LRB). It is hard to feel pity if the 'other' shouldn't exist on principle, and her presence is just some dark anomalous blur on the periphery of one's vision, which is focused solely on one's own tremendous stride towards a dazzling historical achievement. :::Klemperer's vision was as prophetic as Kafka's was of modernity and Nazism. They are 'sincere' in the worst sense of that word, i.e., they cannot understand that 'sincerity' can obtain in people who disagree with them: it must be bad faith, or anti-semitism. It is a reflex Pavlovian system of group-think, as inexorable in its conclusions as any ideology.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 20:11, 10 June 2014 (UTC) The other relevant point to consider is system bias. For instance, while we don't have an article for the Beitunia killings, there is already an article for an event less than three days old - [[2014 kidnapping of Israeli teens]] (an example of the format described by Nishidani: "using a selective set of sources to underline the viviousness of Palestinians"). A prodigious output of (POV) articles covering Israeli victims of the the conflict while not covering Palestinian victims is a problem. [[User:Dlv999|Dlv999]] ([[User talk:Dlv999|talk]]) 10:49, 15 June 2014 (UTC) ::Thanks. I actually checked yesterday, wondering how long this would take to get into wikipedia, and, not finding an article, thought to myself that the area was improving. Alas, not so. I think editors should exercise caution in succumbing to the temptation to imitate this pattern (it does look, even if it isn't, retaliatory), even if there is a strong argument for 'balancing' the evident POV-bias. Whether or not an article should be written on the Beitunia murders or not should depend on [[WP:NOTABLE]] criteria (such events fail ''notability'' (ugh!) in wikipedia terms because their frequency is in inverse proportion to the follow-up attention given targeted Palestinian murders in the RS mainstream press - they occur almost monthly), esp. on the forensic outcome (partially known) and ongoing reports of the Israeli investigation, while keeping in mind that one can't be bound by the latter, since these notoriously drag on and tend to bury such cases.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:58, 15 June 2014 (UTC) :::Fuck, bad editors just mean revert wars, false edit summaries, and the burden of fixing crap placed on others' shoulders. 'I provide the POV pushing and you neutralize it, if anyone's looking.' [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 16:00, 15 June 2014 (UTC) == Your lovely vandal == I asked Alison if an IP was JarlaxleArtemis and she confirmed and blocked several accounts and another IP. [[User:Dougweller|Dougweller]] ([[User talk:Dougweller|talk]]) 14:08, 14 June 2014 (UTC) :Thanks Doug. I fail to see the point of this turpiloquent hyperactivism in my regard. I think the Spanish for 'water off a duck's back' is ''Por un oído me entra y por otro me sale,'' so I quack rather than quake. I still owe you that article, - just overwhelmed these months by extrawiki work and life. Will do it eventually.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 15:15, 14 June 2014 (UTC) ==Notice== [[Image:Ambox notice.svg|link=|25px|alt=Information icon]] There is currently a discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. <!--Template:ANI-notice--> Thank you. [[User:FatGuySeven|FatGuySeven]] ([[User talk:FatGuySeven|talk]]) 03:22, 29 June 2014 (UTC) == Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in. == [[File:Peacedove.svg|60px|left]] This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard]] regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!<!--Template:DRN-notice--> [[User:FatGuySeven|FatGuySeven]] ([[User talk:FatGuySeven|talk]]) 16:15, 29 June 2014 (UTC) == IP socks == Hi, regarding your comment at [[Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement]]: you seem to have forgotten to sign it. Any full RfC about the matter would be flooded with socks, me thinks. Perhaps we should start finding links to all those off-wiki reports of canvassing, and then show the damage (=huge waste of time) throw-away sock do in the I/P area, and then take it to Arb.com? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 20:35, 30 June 2014 (UTC) *Btw, have you seen [http://stats.grok.se/en/latest/Halhul this]? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 01:16, 1 July 2014 (UTC) *I would absolutely love it if you could help me out on [[Talk:Nisf Jubeil]]. We need a French and a Latin reader. There are two Nisf Jubeils which have been mixed up, it seems, Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 08:52, 1 July 2014 (UTC) ::Of course. But I will be away for a few days. [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 09:48, 1 July 2014 (UTC) == SPI case filed == I've filed a sockpuppet case at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Smatprt. [[User:Tom Reedy|Tom Reedy]] ([[User talk:Tom Reedy|talk]]) 13:36, 1 July 2014 (UTC) == For the task ahead.... == {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Export hell seidel steiner.png|70px]] |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |Have a beer! Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC) |} Btw, one very easy task: on [[Umm al-Fahm]] Guerin writes that it has "dix huit cents" inhabitants. Isn´t that 1800? Petersen, citing Guerin, say it is 800? Cheers, [[User:Huldra|Huldra]] ([[User talk:Huldra|talk]]) 22:44, 9 July 2014 (UTC) ::Strewth. You may have seen me making occasional edits in here, but since Monday I have been once more chopping down trees, chain-sawing wood, packaging 31 large bags of leaves for disposal, loading trucks - backload of tasks I finally could do only on those days because a friend turned up with the equipment to rid the place of a year of accumulated woodstock. Same Friday. I'll do it though, just remind me if I haven'ìt by Sunday night.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:01, 10 July 2014 (UTC) == User reported me == Hi Nishidani.... Just letting you know :) user Gunrpks reported me for "reverting" his editorial wars on your article concerning the war in the middle east. I am a new user and have never reported some one before but I will try to report him as well. --[[User:علي سمسم|علي سمسم]] ([[User talk:علي سمسم|talk]]) 12:35, 10 July 2014 (UTC) :I see. I'm afraid you can't enlist people's help, technically. You are new to this place, unlike [[User:Gunrpks]] and, I think, you engaged in an edit-war with him. Your excuse would be unfamiliarity with I/P ARBPIA practices, but any editor should inform himself before hand that edit-warring, even in a 'just cause' sends a bad signal. One must not imitate bad editors. In any case, as you are unfamiliar with these things, I will examine this, if only because I informed that editor that he was violating the 1RR, and he persisted. I refrained from reporting him, but, if my perception is correct about his edits, it is certainly odd that he should report you. That would mean he risks WP:Boomerang, when all of the evidence is examined. In any case, I would advise you not to report him, it is a bad practice, esp. by newbies, to use this. It looks like playing tactical games to out an 'adversary'. Be patience, calm, succinct, in your reply, and if you check the evidence and find you have made an error, apologize. Above all, do not transform your reply into a long screed. Trust administrators to see into it. They have better eyes than most of us, most of the time.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:07, 10 July 2014 (UTC) Thank you :)--[[User:علي سمسم|علي سمسم]] ([[User talk:علي سمسم|talk]]) 13:16, 10 July 2014 (UTC) :It would be wise to withdraw your complaint. You made an error, since it was not [[User:Gunrpks]] who reported you but [[User:Shrike]]. I have already noted in his complaint the unsatisfactoriness of his report, and you would do well therefore to withdraw your complaint, and allow admiistrators to examine the whole set of diffs for the relevant pages and make up their own minds. Edit-warring did occur on both sides, and they must evaluate from your respective records what to do in each case.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 13:57, 10 July 2014 (UTC) == Nomination of [[:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel]] for deletion == <div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article '''[[:List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel]]''' is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]]. The article will be discussed at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel ]] until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines. Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.<!-- Template:afd-notice --> [[User:AlanS|AlanS]] ([[User talk:AlanS|talk]]) 14:37, 11 July 2014 (UTC) == A cup of tea for you! == {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg|120px]] |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | I find it chills me more than coffee! I think we can work well together, because of, more than despite, our differing POVs. I think most editors misuse or fail to grasp the positives of that dynamic, in many contentious areas. Cheers :) [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 00:22, 12 July 2014 (UTC) |} :Thanks, gratefully accepted. Nicely designed cup, though I prefer a mug, because the latter makes me think of myself.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 21:30, 12 July 2014 (UTC) ::Ditto :). With respect, [[User:Irondome|Irondome]] ([[User talk:Irondome|talk]]) 02:04, 14 July 2014 (UTC) == Thanks lads for riding shotgun on this page, (NSH001, Sean.hoyland, Sjö and Yunshui) == But now that I see what the removed 150 odd attacks by this Nishidumbass sockster wrote, I wonder at the puerile lack of an ability to connect one's thoughts to real history. Willing death on others in order to defend one's 'ethnic vitalism' is of course a Nazi cast of mind, and therefore, ''ipso facto'' unacceptable for anyone with the genocide of WW2 still vivid in recall. Hitler once said:’ We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew.' Manfred Henningsen, ‘The Politics of Purity and Exclusion,’ Björn H. Jernudd, Michael J. Shapiro (eds.), [http://books.google.com.au/books?id=GfdsXwTT6fcC&pg=PA48 ''The Politics of Language Purism,''] Mouton de Gruyter ‎1989 pp.31-52 p.48 Same pathology in the sock who thinks eliminating Christians, Europeans, Arabs and wikipedia will somehow secure the survival of Israel. Even if that happened I would survive, I guess, being a pagan, and only 'European' by adoption. Then again, if wikipedia was killed off, I might just, qua Nishidani, croak with it! [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 07:34, 14 July 2014 (UTC) :Sjö! tack så mycket ::''Strömkarlen spelar, ::''Sorgerna delar ::''Vakan kring berg och dal.'' :雲水先生,谢 谢 你 的 帮 助. ::喜見行脚人 ::恥茶無兩杯 [[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:19, 14 July 2014 (UTC) :::That's very elegant - a pleasure to assist someone of a poetic bent. [[User:Yunshui|Yunshui]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Yunshui|<sup style="font-size:90%">雲</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/Yunshui|<sub style="font-size:90%">水</sub>]] 10:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC) ::::No poetic bent, but a bent for what poets write, reading which keeps me sane when editing in here. The merits of elegance lie elsewhere, I confess. I'd been reading about [[Ladakh]] recently, while engaged in a AfD discussion on Nepal, and saw those elegant verses by a Chinese visitor to that wonderful place. Then someone offered me a cup of tea (see above), and I thought of [[tsampa]], and when I saw the 雲 in your handle I thought of the [[Tümed]], and 水, water, by an uncanny coincidence, clicked with the other admin's handle ''Sjö'', which in Swedish means 'lake' and both of you had rid my page of a [[Neck (water spirit)|Strömkarl]], who tries to drown people (here by inundating the page with racist hogwash). Thanks again.[[User:Nishidani|Nishidani]] ([[User talk:Nishidani#top|talk]]) 10:54, 14 July 2014 (UTC) [[Image:Stop hand nuvola.svg|30px|left|alt=Stop icon]] Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit war]]. '''Being involved in an edit war can result in your being [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked from editing]]'''&mdash;especially if you violate the [[Wikipedia:Edit warring#The three-revert rule|three-revert rule]], which states that an editor must not perform more than three [[Help:Reverting|reverts]] on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;'''even if you don't violate the three-revert rule'''&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. ==Wikipedia edit warring noticeboard== Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring]] regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on [[Wikipedia:Edit warring|edit warring]][[User:Tritomex|Tritomex]] ([[User talk:Tritomex|talk]]) 11:06, 15 July 2014 (UTC) == Notice of [[WP:ARBPIA]] == {{Ivm|2='''Please carefully read this information:''' The Arbitration Committee has authorised [[Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions|discretionary sanctions]] to be used for pages regarding the [[Arab–Israeli conflict]], a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles|here]]. Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means [[WP:INVOLVED|uninvolved]] administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|purpose of Wikipedia]], our [[:Category:Wikipedia conduct policies|standards of behavior]], or relevant [[Wikipedia:List of policies|policies]]. Administrators may impose sanctions such as [[Wikipedia:Editing restrictions#Types of restrictions|editing restrictions]], [[Wikipedia:Banning policy#Types of bans|bans]], or [[WP:Blocking policy|blocks]]. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions. This message is informational only and does not imply misconduct regarding your contributions to date. }}{{Z33}}<!-- Derived from Template:Ds/alert -->--[[User:Bbb23|Bbb23]] ([[User talk:Bbb23|talk]]) 20:21, 15 July 2014 (UTC)'
Whether or not the change was made through a Tor exit node (tor_exit_node)
0
Unix timestamp of change (timestamp)
1405455660