Talk:Florence Ashley

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Florence Ashley article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

LGBT studies: Person

	LGBT portal This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBT studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBT-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBT studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBT studiesLGBT articles
	This article is supported by the LGBT Person task force.

Biography: Science and Academia

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group.
	An appropriate infobox may need to be added to this article. Please refer to the list of biography infoboxes for further information.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Canada: Alberta / Montreal / Law / Education Low‑importance

	Canada portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Canada, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Canada on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CanadaWikipedia:WikiProject CanadaTemplate:WikiProject CanadaCanada-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Alberta.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Montreal.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Canadian law.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Education in Canada.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Women writers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article has been marked as needing an infobox.
	It is requested that a photograph be added to this article to improve its quality.

List of useful media articles to be added.[edit]

The following is a (currently unsorted) list of useful media articles that could be added in various parts of the article:

The following is a (currently unsorted) list of secondary articles citing Ahsley:

https://nationalpost.com/news/drop-dehumanizing-mental-health-assessments-for-trans-youth-wanting-body-altering-hormone-therapy-mcgill-bioethicist-argues

The following is a (currently unsorted) list of sources that I can’t identify if are primary or secondary

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/pre-treatment-mental-health-assessment-of-trans-people-dehumanising-and-unjustified/

Sources that talk about Ashley’s work in a negative context:

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bioethicist-transgender-children-should-decide-whether-to-transition/ - Editorial, doesn’t mention Ashley by name but does discuss a paper of theirs

Reviews of Ashley’s books:

Awards Ashley has received:

SOGIC - already mentioned in article
https://www.droit-inc.com/article24225-Une-1ere-auxiliaire-juridique-trans-a-la-Cour-supreme French language article on winning the SOGIC award.
https://www.law.utoronto.ca/news/florence-ashley-sjd-receives-adel-s-sedra-distinguished-graduate-award 2022 Adel S. Sedra Distinguished Graduate Award
https://www.law.utoronto.ca/news/doctoral-student-florence-ashley-receives-u-ts-peter-singer-award-in-bioethics 2021 University of Toronto’s Peter Singer Award in Bioethics

Regarding citation by UN independent expert:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/thematic-reports/ahrc4453-practices-so-called-conversion-therapy-report-independent

Regarding National Assembly testimony:

Need to find:

Secondary sources analysing or citing their work
Articles about Florence that aren’t interviews of them.

More to add to this as I find it. Sideswipe9th (talk) 17:58, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My primary concern right now is overuse of WP:PRIMARY sources, via interviews with Ashley. There’s a couple of notability hurdles that need to be addressed before we can consider pushing this draft for review. Accordingly we need to look at WP:NBASIC for general biographical notability, or WP:NACADEMIC for academic notability. I think we’ll have a stronger case for NACADEMIC than NBASIC, given Ashley’s work. Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:00, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What we really need at the moment are WP:SECONDARY sources. Anything where Ashley’s work has been reviewed, either by their peers or wider audience. Is there any reviews of Ashley’s recent book we can cite? Are there any sources, aside from their University of Toronto profile page that mentions their work being cited by the UN Independent Expert on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity? Or their legal contributions to the Qubec National Assembly? Sideswipe9th (talk) 19:05, 9 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have added links above to the UN report and to the Natioanl Assembly hearings, but they are the official report/transcript rather than a secondary source.

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2024[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

‹ The template Edit semi-protected is being considered for merging. ›

Change: In 2023, Ashley was one of 21 members appointed to the World Health Organization’s guideline development group concerning the health of trans and gender diverse people.[15]

To: In 2023, Ashley was one of 21 members appointed to the World Health Organization’s Guideline Development Group concerning the health of trans and gender diverse people,[15] but as of January 15, 2024, they was no longer listed as a proposed member of that group.[insert citation below]

Citation: https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/hq-hiv-hepatitis-and-stis-library/biographies_tgd-gdg_proposed_members_2024.pdf Bert Adan (talk) 12:17, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done with an explanation of why. “They was” changed to “they were” per rest of article. Thriftycat ^{Talk • Contribs} 12:29, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Suggested additions[edit]

The user below has a request that an edit be made to Florence Ashley. That user has an actual or apparent conflict of interest.
The requested edits backlog is moderate. Please be patient. There are currently 150 requests waiting for review.

Please read the instructions for the parameters used by this template for accepting and declining them, and review the request below and make the edit if it is well sourced, neutral, and follows other Wikipedia guidelines and policies.

As I am the subject of the article, it would not be appropriate for me to make edits. I am including information below that I believe would be useful additions to the article.

Florence is a member of the Women’s Legal Education and Action Fund’s Law Program Committee (link) and of the Canadian Civil Liberties Association’s National Council (link).

The book ‘’Banning Transgender Conversion Practices: A Legal and Policy Analysis’’, discussed under ‘personal life and education’, was reviewed in the following outlets:

https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-136/made-to-feel-broken-ending-conversion-practices-and-saving-transgender-lives/ (a “thoughtful, thoroughly researched, and important contribution” to “the project of securing transgender health and respect”; however, it is a Canadian book and “In the United States, for example, many provisions in Ashley’s model law are unlikely to pass constitutional muster.”)

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/09685332231193957 (“I cannot emphasize enough how groundbreaking this work is.”)

https://nationalmagazine.ca/en-ca/articles/law/access-to-justice/2022/banning-transgender-conversion-practices (“You know an author has succeeded when the reader doesn’t realize how easily a book reads despite its complex subject matter.” Describing the book as “nothing short of a rhetorical tour de force” that is “a must-read for jurists, healthcare professionals and policy folks who want to understand this critical issue in a clear, concise, yet thorough manner.”)

Florence’s masters thesis, which formed the basis for the book referenced above, was cited by the UN Independent Expert report on conversion therapy for the proposition that “Practices aimed at changing gender identity include preventing trans young people from transitioning.” See: https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/thematic-reports/ahrc4453-practices-so-called-conversion-therapy-report-independent

Florence testified before Québec’s National Assembly twice:

https://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/travaux-parlementaires/commissions/crc-42-1/journal-debats/CRC-201105.html (testimony by Florence Ashley on the province’s conversion therapy ban; opposition MNA Maccarone, in her discussion with Kristopher Wells, also suggested following the definition of conversion practices offered by Florence Ashley
https://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/travaux-parlementaires/commissions/ci-42-2/journal-debats/CI-211202.html (on the province’s controversial Bill 2, which would have separated ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ markers and was decried for outing and misgendering trans people)

Florence was part of an open letter by Alberta law professors to Alberta Premier Danielle Smith raising concerns about her proposed policies on trans youth. See: https://ablawg.ca/2024/02/15/an-open-letter-to-premier-danielle-smith-re-preserving-choice-for-children-and-youth-announcement/

Flowsthatglow (talk) 13:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Picture[edit]

A picture of the subject of the article is now available on Wikimedia Commons and could be added to the page: https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=File%3AFlorence_Ashley_Zone_Franche.jpg&oldid=prev&diff=889355837 Flowsthatglow (talk) 18:20, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Flowsthatglows! I'm happy to add File:Florence Ashley Zone Franche.jpg or a cropped portrait version to the article. Before doing so I would like to be sure that it's available under an acceptable free content license. Because of the language gap, I can't see anything at the source to verify that the image is CC-BY 4.0. If you know for sure that Télé-Québec released the photo under this license, could you point to that information? Otherwise it may need to be removed from Wikimedia Commons; images from TV shows (even public broadcast shows) are presumed to be copyrighted, so the image might not be useable here.

If it's more convenient, you could also upload your own photo which you yourself hold the copyright to (e.g. a selfie). –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 03:04, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done A discussion of the image's license status now exists at c:Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Florence_Ashley_Zone_Franche.jpg. Until that's resolved (hopefully by an administrator or volunteer more competent than myself at Commons' processes), I've gone ahead and added the image to the article. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 03:33, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ve replied to the delete request discussion and sent a PDF of the email thread confirming license status to [email protected]. Long story short, I have written confirmation by the Director of operations of the company who owns the image that its license is CC BY-SA and meets the free content license criteria. Flowsthatglow (talk) 03:31, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]