Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abortion under communism

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 00:49, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Abortion under communism

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This page is may be culpable of wp:crosscat between Category:communism and Category:Abortion law. Wikipedia articles are not to be "Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics", because WP:NOTCATALOG. (Previously, there was a wp:crosscat between Category:Abortion law and Category:Marxist feminism. This problem has been rectified.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by FatalSubjectivities (talk • contribs) 03:31, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Question. I'm interested in this discussion, but don't yet have a firm position. One question I have - you identify abortion law above, but the abortion under communism article contains more than current law, it also discusses the law of former states, and former laws of extant states. And it addresses the abortion positions of political parties. If this page were deleted, how would you suggest that material be handled? JArthur1984 (talk) 13:16, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for asking.
As you have rightfully noted, this page "addresses the abortion positions of political parties". These political parties have their own respective pages. Therefore, the material on this page can be transferred to their respective political parties' pages, hence need not be deleted, even if this page itself is deleted.
Category:abortion law was not a category placed by me, but someone in the past. FatalSubjectivities (talk) 16:56, 20 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Law, Politics, Sexuality and gender, China, Korea, Laos, Vietnam, Russia, and Cuba. Skynxnex (talk) 20:43, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion was not listed in the log. So I have transcluded it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2023 May 19. Skynxnex (talk) 20:49, 19 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. I had not realized there were simultaneous deletion discussions for both Abortion under communism and Socialist perspectives on abortion. I am sympathetic to the desire to reduce duplication, but it seems to me the better approach would be to discuss how to merge these two articles, not to delete both of them. JArthur1984 (talk) 16:13, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A merger will reduce duplication indeed, but will not solve other problems, as stated above (and below). Hence, deletion of a resultant article may still be the sensible choice. Hence, there may be little need to merge, since merger will not eliminate the need for deletion FatalSubjectivities (talk) 08:58, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep -- Abortion was an important, even routine, form of birth control in the Soviet Union. It's even more important in contemporary Chinese history with hundreds of millions of forced abortions under the country's "One Child" policy. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 13:25, 23 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I note the current article does not do justice to abortion in those two countries. We should keep the article and expand those two sections.--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 01:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Flip-flop to ~~keep~~ delete - I'm embarrassed to flip-flop but on further examination, Abortion in China and Abortion in Russia are both well-developed articles. I see now that this article adds little further value. --A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 01:48, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Pardon me, A. B., but are you flip-flop to keep or flip-flop to delete? FatalSubjectivities (talk) 13:11, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I meant “delete”. This is embarrassing. —A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 03:10, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:08, 26 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I'm not really a fan of the layout or the inclusion of parties that have never been in government - however with that proviso, I think that the topic is notable as an overview of Marxist policies in different countries. JMWt (talk)`
Keep with conditions - Maybe there is a need for a rewrite. A psolufmg.blogspot.com source; "Over the span of these 23 years, more than 2 million unwanted children, were born and at least 10,000 women died as a result" aftermath? context? I think that the whole article is surrounded by the issue of being too abstract. Also no mention of one-child policy. ときさきくるみ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 01:42, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If it only discusses the rights, then it's "Abortion rights under communism", not "Abortion under communism". ときさきくるみ^{not because they are easy, but because they are hard} 01:47, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
There is not and never has been a unified approach in communist countries. In the Soviet Union, for example, the laws changed greatly at different times. In this sense, the unification by political system looks a bit drawn. Khinkali (talk) 08:53, 28 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. It seems a useful article, though some more citations are needed. The article Socialist_perspectives_on_abortion also marked AfD should be merged into this. Rick Jelliffe (talk) 23:47, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 13:29, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

friendly note to those who support a merger of Socialist perspectives on abortion into Abortion under communism or the other way round Any merger in general will reduce duplication indeed, but will not solve other problems such as those which have been stated above. Hence, the resultant article is likely to still lack a reason to exist. As such, there may be little need to merge, since merger will not eliminate the need for deletion. But still, I am willing to listen to - and even accept - any rejections of my concerns. FatalSubjectivities (talk) 08:25, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with and redirect to Socialist perspectives on abortion, I think that both articles are useful and provide a good overview on socialist stances on abortion. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 13:42, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: As per Rick Jelliffe's decision. CastJared (talk) 14:00, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Socialist perspectives on abortion: a valid and useful topic, but there's not enough universally-agreed distinction between socialist and communist ideas/governments/countries to be able to sustain two articles without a huge headache. UndercoverClassicist (talk) 15:22, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Much like Socialist perspectives on abortion, there's not a solid policy argument for deletion. Even more so, WP:Crosscat should not apply as this is a very specific topic. Meanderingbartender (talk) 16:41, 3 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as one big WP:SYNTHbomb. "hey X is a communist country, and Y is a communist country, and they both have abortion-related laws, so let's put them together as though this is one big topic" is a form of WP:OR. Where are the sources which connect all of these to the central subject? Where are the sources about the subject broadly? I don't doubt there are some books about communism that mention abortion, but enough for a stand-alone list of countries? — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 12:18, 10 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.