Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of unreleased Britney Spears songs

This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2012 November 28.
For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was No consensus to delete. This is a very well sourced list, and a featured list, and as such it meets our core policy of verifiability with gusto. While there is a preponderance of delete votes here, many of them seem to amount to "I don't like the subject matter". While I don't like the subject matter either, I think the point is well made in this debate that this is high quality content, and so I close this debate accordingly. -- Y not? 16:36, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I will add to say that if any editor finds any specific entry on this list to be too CRYSTAL, he or she may edit the article as necessary. That's not a rationale for deletion. -- Y not? 16:39, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

List of unreleased Britney Spears songs

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

WP:FANCRUFT and WP:INDISCRIMINATE. mostly sourced to bmi entries and unreliable websites, which does not indicate actual existence. Bonkers The Clown (talk) 12:44, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - A fan or promoter has evidently crafted out this page. A few of the links are dead or seem irrelevant. Since these unreleased songs may be intended for release in the future, is it also WP:CRYSTAL? In which case these songs can later be incorporated in to Britney Spears discography. Kooky2 (talk) 13:13, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:CRYSTAL does not apply simply wherever the current, verified status of something might change; it would only apply if the list included unsourced speculation about that possible change (the songs' possible future release). postdlf (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. These lists of unreleased songs by artists or bands are almost always blatant WP:FANCRUFT, and I hardly see this as an exception. Notability is not established, as all of the cited sources are primary. --NINTENDUDE ⁶⁴ 23:56, 28 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- All of the cited sources are not primary; take another look. postdlf (talk) 16:37, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment. The vast majority of the sources are primary, either originating from BMI or ASCAP. --NINTENDUDE ⁶⁴ 16:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    - Some things cannot simpy be cited by third party reliable sources. For articles like this, first party sources are more reliable thatn third paty ones, and BMI and ASCAP are well reliable enough to hold this list's existence and notability. Remember that notability for lists has another different standards than for articles. — ΛΧΣ21™ 01:44, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. An unreleased song is not notable, nor is a list of unreleased songs, performed by X does not increase that notability. A list of songs is not notable in itself. As there appears to be no requirement for a List of songs recorded by Britney Spears then the interest and notability of this list does not appear to be established.--Richhoncho (talk) 14:37, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This list is not notable, WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:CRYSTAL Kooky2 (talk) 14:26, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:16, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 16:16, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Given that this is a Featured List, dismissing it as mere fancruft seems a rather facile way to address it, and attributing it to a "fan or promoter" shows a failure to even take the time to look at it and its history carefully. I'm not sure that we should have a requirement that featured content be delisted first before being taken to AFD, but that status shouldn't be dismissed out of hand. postdlf (talk) 16:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I attributed the page to a fan or promoter, after careful checking and even editing some of the dead links myself. (I am not a dedicated fan) This comment was based on the obscure content, the editing history and the fact that it was originated by a user: BritneyFan and several single-purpose IP addresses. The comment was intended to be neutral which is why I used the word crafted. Perhaps I should have added that it wouldn't matter if it had all been written by Britney herself, provided the content merited inclusion in WP. Most AfD pages appear to be created with an agenda and often they are also posted for AfD with an agenda, it's just some editors are more subtle about hiding it. Kooky2 (talk) 13:00, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 02:41, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - unreleased songs are not notable, also we've removed enough of these "unreleased song" type pages recently as well; why should this one stay? Lukeno94 (talk) 13:03, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Additional comment. The following AfD's relating to unreleased and/or outtakes are relevant and all resulted in delete:-

Bon Jovi.

Only one or two others have survived. My earlier comment still stands. --Richhoncho (talk) 13:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That's quite a statement, considering some have been covered by reliable news sources. Unreleased songs can be notable. She's one of few artists who has notable unreleased songs, not all, but some. Statυs (talk) 22:46, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I don't know how exactly the article is full of unreliable sources, when there are several from sources such as Billboard, USA Today, New York and MTV. The BMI reports clearly show who recorded the song, if you actually take a look it shows "Artist: Britney Spears" on most of them. The argument in bother AFDs for unreleased songs were that they don't have a artist present, and only the artist as a co-writer of the song, so it is only assumed they recorded the song. This is a well done article that passed FLC with seven supports. Could use a bit of a clean-up, but that's all. Statυs (talk) 22:44, 5 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
BMI doesn't say if the singer recorded the song, it just states who it was written for, considering it is a website of songwriters... AARON• ^TALK 22:50, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The nomination statement makes no sense. By the way, how this list rached featured status if it qualifies for deletion? I guess that folks at FLC know very well notability guidelines and other stuff to make sure that promotions are of very good quality. As a result, there is no valid reason to delete this list. WP:FANCRUFT and WP:INDISCRIMINATE are two guidelines that cannot be applied here: This is encyclopedic content that has historical value; and I am no fan of Britney at all. Also, I'd like to hear the definition the nominator has of "unreliable websites", which is, in my opinion, clearly incorrect. I guess that a good read of WP:BEFORE and several notability and inclusion guidelines would make good. Regards. — ΛΧΣ21™ 01:13, 6 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete because Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of everything that has existed. BPI etc. do not account for notability. Any songs that are referenced with secondary, reliable sources can be briefly mentioned on the relevant album article. Till 10:01, 7 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 00:20, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Agree with other people above you voted delete. They carry no relevance or notability. I might add that I strongly disagree with these songs being adding to the List of songs recorded by Britney Spears list too. They shouldn't be included as a list/table anywhere. I good place for them would be on their respective intended albums. No even knows if these songs were recorded. AARON• ^TALK 00:29, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - I don't see how an unreleased song could be seen as notable, unless it was some highly anticipated song that created a great deal of press for some reason...no...none of these are notable. --Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 01:10, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 November 13. Snotbot t • c » 16:59, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with the article on Britney Spears; if these songs are unreleaed, it could not really be merged with Britney_Spears_discography. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 15:07, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It definitely can't go in Britney Spears, it has no place at all. Unreleased songs are not notable. AARON• ^TALK 16:14, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.