Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Asian superheroes

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. I see a consensus among participants to Keep this article. There is room for improvment, to be sure, and I encourage interested editors to take the feedback in this discussion and work on the article. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:12, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

List of Asian superheroes

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Wildly indiscriminate. Asia is a HUGE place (the biggest continent on Earth, obviously) with countless unrelated cultures, and that’s not even getting into diaspora. There is no reason to lump every super from, or with ancestry from, Asia into a giant list. Dronebogus (talk) 09:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Lists, and Asia. Dronebogus (talk) 09:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Largely unsourced but that problem might be solvable if the whole concept wasn't overbroad and borderline-incoherent in the first place. Best case scenario, this would generate intractable debates about who counts as Asian. Worst case scenario, which the article is close to, is that it lies unmaintained and filled with unverifiable cruft and original research. Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 12:06, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Notable topic, needs heavy cleanup. Deletion is not cleanup, see WP:SURMOUNTABLE. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:14, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ See below - Representation is a thing. When a form of media, genre, or say, a type of character is almost always one way for a long time, exceptions often get press coverage -- not just because they're unusual but because the people represented are often enthusiastic and want to share examples. Nominating a bunch of "[group historically underrepresented] in [an area in which they were underrepresented]" articles as WP:INDISCRIMINATE is, well, indiscriminate. Obviously there will be sources to satisfy WP:NLIST for this topic (I can link some, but I suspect that's not even in question, really), and inclusion criteria seems pretty easy to set up. The rest is just cleanup. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 03:31, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Really though? This article’s idea of “Asian” includes Saudi Arabia, Japan, and Indonesia, but not Russia. Where’s the sourcing for that being a notable grouping? Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 06:58, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Russia’s physically in two continents but culturally “Russia” is mainly the European/Slavic part. Many ethnic minorities live in semi-autonomous subnational territories like the Republics of Russia. Dronebogus (talk) 11:26, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is why I described the scope of the article as borderline-incoherent. Is it based on geography or culture or ethnicity or what? Barnards.tar.gz (talk) 12:59, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not defending it. I nominated the thing. There’s a List of Russian superheroes but it’s total crap as well. Dronebogus (talk) 13:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep: Definitely a notable topic with cleanup needed. However, I'd say that the article can be split into the different factions of Asia (like East Asia, Middle Eastern, Indian, etc.), though if they already exist, then yay. Conyo14 (talk) 18:23, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I can find no indication that this passes WP:NLIST. Contrary to the assertion above, representation is only a "thing" if it were Western-produced comics that included Asian characters (oh sorry, just superheroes, not villains, or everyday working schlubs). Given Japan's vast production of comics, it's pretty run of the mill that most of them would be set in Japan and feature Japanese characters. And still, this smacks of WP:RGW. But for that matter, who decides what counts as Asian? as a superhero? The whole thing is an inextricable mess of WP:OR. 35.139.154.158 (talk) 19:01, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

NLIST is via the many articles which treat "Asian superheroes" as a group, even if it's a tricky grouping. The current list definitely needs to be pruned, since unlike some other similar lists it's unclear what kind of "superhero" it's talking about (why would a Mortal Kombat video game character be included, for example?). This one is indeed harder than some of the others nominated both because "Asian" is indeed broad but also because the others don't include one of the two giant comic-producing industries. While some of the other lists deal with a population that is indeed underrepresented in the world of comic book superheroes, Japan certainly is not, and that makes this list kind of impossible to set clear inclusion criteria for that doesn't simply include a big chunk of the manga industry in addition to other Asian superheroes. I'll admit when I first looked at this one I was thinking about the comic book world that's centered on Marvel/DC/others in North America and representation therein, which I think is also what a lot of the sources are talking about for better or worse, but that's obviously not what this is, so I'm striking my keep !vote accordingly. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 11:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Like those before me said, it is a notable topic fullfilling WP:LISTN but needs a lot of improvement. Most importantly, the scope needs to be made clear, which should be possible using which groupings secondary sources are actually referring to. Then WP:AFDISNOTCLEANUP applies. Daranios (talk) 15:13, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And where are these secondary sources…? Dronebogus (talk) 17:45, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Collecting secondary sources: Comics, Graphic Novels, and Manga: The Ultimate Teen Guide, Panthers, Hulks and Ironhearts: Marvel, Diversity and the 21st Century Superhero, Asian Stereotypes and American-Sino Relations in Marvel's Collective Man, 15 Amazing Asian Superheroes, The 'Asian Superhero' Is Not An Oxymoron, 10 Asian Superheroes You Didn't Know About, Not All Supermen (supposedly p. 145-147), and more sources with short comments. Daranios (talk) 20:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The rules state a list must have either coverage of the top in a reliable source, or be a valid navigational list, this meets both requirements. Pruning can be done to remove any that don't have their own articles or mention in an article for their source media, or have reliable sources mentioning them. Dream Focus 14:34, 23 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:28, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, as a reasonable arrangements of information about an aspects of human cultural history. BD2412 T 01:44, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as meeting WP:LISTN per sources cited above. Has problems but does not appear unsalvageable. Might be worth considering rescoping/splitting to something like "List of Asian superheroes in non-Asian / North American media" or some such, per Rhododendrites' considerations above, although I lack the topical expertise to have a strong opinion on that. -- Visviva (talk) 17:39, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep needs cleanup. Topic is solid, see WP:LISTN Gerblinpete (talk)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.