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Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2007 April 16

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April 16

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The result of the debate was re-targeted to Wikipedia:Editor assistance. John Reaves (talk) 21:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There are two possible targets for this shortcut, Wikipedia:Esperanza (which it has historically pointed to) and the new page, Wikipedia:Editor assistance. It seems that an active page should have precedence over a historic one. I therefore suggest retargeting to Wikipedia:Editor assistance, with a disambiguation link to Wikipedia:Esperanza being added to the target. WjBscribe 20:05, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Fine by me. No problem with that. Editor assistance replacing Esperanza...that makes it worth it. Moreschi Want some help? Ask! 20:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as a dead organization should not supplant a live one. Esperanza is already fading into living memory, I am starting to meet people who have no idea what Esperanza is. It's therefore highly useful to change the shortcut. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dev920 (talkcontribs)
  • Oppose. There are a lot of links to WP:EA with and without context as to what its intended target is, most often as links in signatures. This both creates confusion for new users, and gives Editor Assistance unearned publicity. Fixing thousands of them is a waste of effort. WP:ASSIST is a much more intuitive shortcut with no previous connotations. –Pomte 20:36, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Well that's why we'd have a disambig link to guide people to the right page. By definition those looking for Esperanza will be established contributors whereas Editor Assistance is aimed at new users who will never have heard of Esperanza. Is giving it a bit of publicity really a bad thing? WjBscribe 20:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We have a user who is willing to use his bot to change all the current WP:EA links to Wikipedia:Esperanza, if consensus is gained to do so. The level of effort required is minimal. Users shouldn't be linking to Esperanza in their signatures anyway, so that shouldn't be an issue. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 20:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps they shouldn't, but they do. If you check the backlinks, you will find that many of the hits to WP:EA are in fact in signatures. --After Midnight 0001 22:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Vandals insert penis pictures in loads of articles - they shouldn't but they do. Should we therefore delete WP:VAN on that basis? No. If a user is foolish enough to link to a defunct organization in their signature, than anyone clicking on it will be taken to a much more useful organization, but with the option of seeing Esperanza if they want to (through the link at the top of EA). Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 22:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oops, sorry, I wasn't voicing an opinion about whether or not the work should be done. I was trying to indicate that I thought that there were a very large number of links and that the work might therefore not be minimal. --After Midnight 0001 23:24, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as redirect to Esperanza. I'm really not seeing the benefit of changing this. WP:EA is pretty well-known as the redirect to Esperanza. Anytime it gets used, most older users are going to think of Esperanza, not Editor assistance. Why not just use the unique WP:ASSIST shortcut that doesn't have a history behind it? --- RockMFR 22:35, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as redirect to Esperanza. Users who remember Esperanza will remember the WP:EA shortcut, and since changing the link changes many signatures, it changes what people have said, even on archived pages. Since it's generally frowned upon to change archived discussion, I would similarly frown upon changing this historic redirect. Nihiltres 22:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • It's only frowned upon if the meaning is changed. There will no substantive change, provided the bot op is careful. (Or, perhaps, several people might be recruited to do the job manually in AWB, to ensure that no meaning ever gets changed). --kingboyk 15:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support change. Why does Esperanza (an inactive group) get priority over Editor assistance (an active group)? People who remember Esperanza will be able to find it - new people who don't know Esperanza but need assistance should get the easiest shortcut possible. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 02:06, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support change, active page > historical page. PMC 04:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, active boards trump historical ones. >Radiant< 10:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, if the previous links are changed. Perhaps a substitute shortcut for Esperanza should be created to replace the existing WP:EA shortcuts. (I note that WP:ESP exists...) - jc37 11:21, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
One would imagine that it is not outside the realms of possibility that someone will create a WikiProject on ESP and want their shortcut... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 14:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I actually thought about that when I said that (part of why the ellipses : ) - Just out of curiosity, how many shortcuts does Esperanza have? Perhaps the simplest replacement would be WP:ESPERANZA. - jc37 10:05, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
A dead project doesn't need any redirect, but if it's to have one WP:ESPERANZA would probably best, I agree. --kingboyk 11:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the idea is well intentioned. The idea of transferring this link from "Esperanza" to "Editor Assistance" I believe is perceived by many as not so harmful because the two pages are virtually the same. They both keeps the spirit of helping out others and providing guidance. I believe the debate should look at how we will preserve the historic sense of Esperanza. Let us assume that some or many of the "what links to WP:EA", as demonstrated here, are related mostly to Esperanza. Esperanza was well established back in 2004. Now we are 2007. Personally, even though I'm supposedly banded from editing at WP:Editor Assistance, I would prefer having the "WP:EA", used for a Wikipedia pages, link to a page which has not been disbanded. Personnally I think we should even make a rule for this. If old group is defunct then new group should receive the page. However, if there is more then 3 possible meanings then pershaps a dissambiguation page should be created. If there is no problem in changing the link, I would do it! But there may in fact be a problem. I believe we must consider the former Esperanza concept. References to Esperanza appear to be numerous (2000+). I therefore believe that where ever WP:EA redirects that, that new page, (ie.: Editor assistance) should maintain a disambiguation at the top of the "article". That would mean that "Editor Assistance" should mention Esperanza or have a link somewhere on it's page. Another solution, would be to utilise WP:EA as a disambiguation page. This would probably be a better solution because it allows for each entity to remain "separate."--CyclePat 20:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

p.s.: What are we going to do about all these possible wikipedia groups: "Emergency Assistance", "Emergency Authority", "Emergency Announcement", "Educator Ambassador", "External Associate", "Emergency/Enforcement Action", "Early Action", "External Affairs", "Experimental Activities", "Expert Advisor", "Electronic Analysis", "Editor Assimilation" or "Executive Agency", "Equal Access", "Enrolled Agent", "Evangelical Alliance", "Enterprise Architecture"... Trully a dissambiguation is to be called for now before the creators of Editor assistance believe they own WP:EA. --CyclePat 20:55, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The result of the debate was Deleted. -- JLaTondre 11:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not this meaning. Visor 19:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The result of the debate was delete. WjBscribe 01:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't really a shortcut at all. I can't see how it could be useful. No relevant incoming. --- RockMFR 17:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed – Gurch 11:48, 18 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The result of the debate was retarget to Journaling file system. WjBscribe 01:50, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It makes more sense to me, and no one said anything in the two months since I mentioned it on the talk page, that the article be named "Journaled File System" instead of the cumbersome and peculiar "IBM Journaled File System 2 (JFS2)". I would've just renamed it, but it appears the article in question used to be called JFS (before JFS became a disambiguation page), and "Journaled File System" redirected there. Kbolino 12:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


The result of the debate was keep. WjBscribe 01:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Inappropriate, possibly imflammatory from reading Noob article Simply south 10:16, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, as the executor of said comment I realize first-hand that it can be misconstrued. But, then again, so could WP:BITE or typing out Please do not bite the newcomers. You're liable to tick some people off whatever you do: even though I was trying to cool heads, sometimes trying to blow out a fire ends up fanning the flames, no matter which shortcut I use. In 1337, noob is the proper nomenclature that wouldn't have the same effect as say WP:Greenhorn or WP:Infant. --Valley2city₪‽ 16:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I do not contest the meaning of the word, but this is English Wikipedia after all, not 1337 W1k1p3d14. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 19:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The meaning of "noob" depends on context. Other things being equal, it just means newbie, and is perfectly innocuous. If I say, "Joe Schmoe is a n00b!" that's another story entirely. YechielMan 06:38, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The result of the debate was keep. WjBscribe 01:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This page only exists because it is missing a space between the middle initial and the last name. N.Pearman versus N. Pearman. Also, because I moved the target page, this page is now a double redirect. Charles 01:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

By this logic, we should be creating pages like the Massachusetts Institute ofTechnology so that lazy people do not have to be checking their typing. Sometimes having a redirect where the space is missing may make sense. For instance, Bluewhale redirects to Blue Whale. I can understand that some people may not know that the proper name of the animal is two words. However, if someone does not know that a space is needed between a period and the next word, perhaps they need more help than Wikipedia has to offer. Just because a type exists, is not a reason to keep it. - Charles 22:57, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - We don't purposely create these. In this case, the article was created with the typo, when it was moved to the correct title, it became a redirect. Because redirects are cheap, we often just keep them if they are plausible. --After Midnight 0001 23:35, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The result of the debate was Deleted by NawlinWiki. -- JLaTondre 11:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

nonsense pages.. and so is the target page but I have already used a Speedy template there Exit2DOS2000TC 04:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.
The result of the debate was delete. WjBscribe 01:42, 24 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pointless redirect. Who's gonna type in " (disambiguation)" when they can easily omit it? — Jack · talk · 15:26, Monday, 16 April 2007

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


The result of the debate was keep. Harryboyles 13:00, 22 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No incoming. Created by Jake Mayo-Dan (talk · contribs) as patent nonsense, speedied, and then speedy tag removed by creator. JianLi 18:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above is preserved as the archive of an RfD nomination. Please do not modify it.