Talk:Q89410507

Use

Hi there! Wouldn't this be better used as a qualifier to https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P460 linking to the name with diacritical marks, rather than as a P31? @Jura1: Moebeus (talk) 12:13, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that could be another or additional option.

The main problem I'm trying to address is that some users have a hard time understanding that what is likely a spelling error in one place could be the usual way to write a name somewhere else. Also, once in a while it's a mere coincidence that the spelling is also a different derivation of a similar name. @Moebeus: --- Jura 12:26, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I appreciate that, and I think it's great to try to model this, just not sure about the P31. Anecdotally, in my my part of the world (Scandinavia) there was also a practice of adding accents to "ordinary" family names, to make them sound posher (Olsen = Olsén = moving up in the world!) For Spanish family names it can be the difference between Spain and South America, or the difference between Spanish and Basque. Interesting stuff. Moebeus (talk) 12:32, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm not really sure about the best way either. Maybe, if it's only a misspelling, one could argue that P460 isn't appropriate.

Obviously, unused and unreferenced items should still be deleted (e.g. the ones at Wikidata:Project_chat#Machowicz_(Q36930430)_and_Machowicz).

There seem to be more such items around than I had first thought. Likely all the US census based ones. --- Jura 12:53, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

An alternative could be has characteristic (P1552). @Moebeus:--- Jura 15:21, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

@Jura1: I quite like using "has quality" for stuff like this, where the model isn't 100% locked down and/or a dedicated property doesn't exist (yet). Thanks again for having a go at making sense of this, it's needed. Moebeus (talk) 15:35, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I added an autofix to P31. Krbot should eventually move them. --- Jura 15:47, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Consistency

One problem here is personal consistency, for example people defending different spellings and then trying to put them into one basket but that is just a detail. The more important I have written in several places and will repeat in another title. --E4024 (talk) 16:03, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Turkish names

There are hundreds of Turkish given and / or family names which have very similar spellings but they are "not the same name". They are different names, and in many cases they have different "meanings". A few examples that come to my mind at a glance: Tuncer and Tunçer, Umran and Ümran, Sina and Sına, Ergun and Ergün, Gülşen and Gülsen, Nurşen and Nursen, Sengül and Şengül, Tuncel and Tunçel, Saraçoğlu and Saracoğlu ... (I will add here.)

• These names are not separated by diacritical marks. They are written with different letters. In Turkish the only diacritical mark is what you see over the "a" here: â. We used to have it on a, u, and "ı" but is almost out of use. Therefore the name Celal/Celâl or Kazım/Kâzım, or Kamil/Kâmil may be considered as two different spellings of the same name but those others I have noted above and many more are not so. Therefore I can accept the use of this newvbie only on â, û, î cases.

• The names Mary, Maria and María may have a different relationship among themselves but a Turkish name which means "You laugh" (during all your lifetime) given by parents to a daughter (Gülsen, like one of my nieces) has nothing to do with "Happy rose" (Gülşen, like one of my friends). Please respect my language. --E4024 (talk) 16:21, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

• I'm not really sure which statement(s) you are commenting on. It might be easier if you listed a diff. You might be inferring too much from individual spellings of names that may be shared by several languages. There is Wikidata:WikiProject Names and its talk page for general questions about the model. --- Jura 16:29, 21 July 2020 (UTC)