Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2008 December 31

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31 December 2008

Talk:Matt Lee(musician deluxe)

note to admins I would like to know how this all goes. There are things here I don't understand. I thought you folks kept all notes here at wiki.

I would like to see the entire notes on this page that were removed. I would like to know where the rest of the notes here are. There are notes from this and the actual page missing. I'm new to this so please forgive me but, does this constitute some kind of vandalism? I , like I said am new , so please bear with me. But I want to see the pages that were deleted here. They would be from December 23,24,25,26,27,28,29, 2008. I would also like to know why these pages are here, but all of a sudden the other pages are missing.76.94.31.7 (talk) 20:45, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

note this page shows the movement of this page, Matt Lee(musician deluxe),by user:Metropolitan90 to Matt Lee because the page was approved after a speedy delete was contested and undone. Why is this information all eradicated? Is someone hiding something ? I don't understand because I'm new to all this. 76.94.31.7 (talk) 21:36, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Matt Lee(guitar player)

NOTE: This DRV was added by Bill Blake990 per lifebaka++'s comment to Joeyboyee at DRV 3 which said, in part, that when the article had been userfied and worked on to "bring it back here to open up another DRV (or just in this one if it's still running) and have some people take a look at it. If consensus is that it no longer has the issues laid out in the 2nd AfD above, it'll get moved back into the mainspace." Soundvisions1 (talk) 03:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please look at the talk notes. Thanks.76.94.31.7 (talk) 03:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

oops....talk notes on the Matt Lee(guitar player) page. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.31.7 (talk) 03:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recommend userfication pending outcome of deletion review. There is no reason for this to be in main-space during the review. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 05:13, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The article was userfied on September 18, 2008 - User:Spartaz/Musician. There is no need to userfy again to another location. Soundvisions1 (talk) 05:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

- So userified, at User:Bill Blake990/Matt Lee(guitar player), and user notified. Jclemens (talk) 05:21, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re: previous talk pages. The page Matt Lee(musician deluxe) was put up for speedy deletion, and then the admin that nominated it repealed tthe speedy delete and moved it to a page called Matt Lee. Someone then removed it without a notice, even though the prior admin allowed it. The article shows notability, which was the prior complaint. The A&E ref for Connie Francis' biography on the show Biography was scored by Matt Lee's brother Robert Israel.(Same legal last name).Matt Lee has a songwriting credit on this episode and Mike Thompson from the Eagles played this session too.His name's in the credits at the end of the show as guitar player for more than 3/4's of the shows music.It is linked. Matt Lee has an album mix credit for Denny Freeman who played with Stevie Ray Vaughn in The Cobras. That is linked too, along with Denny's bio on the site. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.31.7 (talk) 05:34, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

oooppssss, I meant that Matt Lee's name is on the show Biography's credits for guitar. Mike thompson played piano on that show.76.94.31.7 (talk) 05:42, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question for admins: Do any of the deleted versions contain substantial support for notability that is not found in the 2 userfied versions? davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 05:55, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Question for admins: I'd just like to know what happened when the speedy delete was overturned on the Matt Lee(musician deluxe)page just a few days ago, and taken by an admin and moved to the Matt Lee page and then unceremoniously pulled by yet another admin? All the pages are missing and I wonder. Does that constitute vandalism of any kind? I don't get it because I'm new, but, it does'nt make sense to me. Thanks.76.94.31.7 (talk) 08:13, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the userfied versions are both revised. The old versions had an attrition of notability,according to prior critique, but the new versions are including, what we hope to be enough additional info to pass inspection this time. That's what they admins asked for last time around , from what I've been told.76.94.31.7 (talk) 08:16, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

here's a link to see a Matt Lee credit for an album mix with Denny Freeman. http://www.dennyfreeman.com/cd.html

You can see the credit there. There is also a bio on Denny Freeman that shows his notability as well. Here's the A&E link for the Connie Francis Biography episode too. http://www.bobbydarin.net/bdcf.html 76.94.31.7 (talk) 08:25, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Can the nominator (or anyone) please advise:
- Why the admins who deleted the various pages were not consulted prior to making a listing here
- Why, rather than abiding by the results of deletion discussions and speedy deletions, the page was recreated at half a dozen different alternative titles
- What is different from the several previous AFDs or DRVs that supported this article being deleted and not undeleted (by which I mean what is different about Mr. Lee, rather than what is different about the article)
Many thanks. Stifle (talk) 09:45, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

comment: In response to Stifle - all of this happened rather fast over the last 24 hours so, as far as I go, there was not time to notify every editor who deleted each slightly different named version of the article, nor every editor who participated in the two AFD's or three prior DRV's. At the point we are at now it is somewhat hard to follow the overall history of this subject because pages have been deleted and recreated and redirected and the redirects deleted so page histories are being deleted as well is some cases. This also goes for associated talk pages and their histories. Now, with two userfied versions, neither of which contain 100% edit history, it is difficult to track any version fully. I think the easiest way for now is to look at the original userfied version on September 18 and compare it to how it was when it was reposted to mainspace on December 25: September 18 and December 25 dif. It may be hard to trace fully the changes made since December 25 because both userfied articles have been edited as were the now deleted Matt Lee, Matt Lee(musician deluxe) and Matt Lee(guitar player) articles.

I do feel that before the article was posted yet again to mainspace there should have been a discussion as had been suggested by lifebaka++ at the September 28 DRV. As the CSD on the (re)created Matt Lee and the Matt Lee(musician deluxe) was denied I had assumed good faith and thought there may had been some such discussion on the issue. I found out after the article was speedied anyway there had been no such discussion but I felt, at that point, it didn't matter one way or the other. It was the recreation of that deleted material into the Matt Lee(guitar player) mainspace that prompted my G4 nom for that and led to this DRV. Soundvisions1 (talk) 16:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was notified of this DRV on my talk page (though I'm not really sure why). Let me just say it's a hot mess already and somebody should really try to clean it up. It's too difficult to read at the moment.... --MZMcBride (talk) 18:55, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: Per Stifle's question above you were notified as being one of the "admins who deleted the various pages". Soundvisions1 (talk) 19:02, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

look at User:Spartaz/Musician. This shows the originally deleted article. You can compare it to User:Bill Blake990/Matt Lee(guitar player) and see the difference for yourself. The article has been heavily revised and notability refs are there, as compared to the original article.76.94.31.7 (talk) 19:52, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I !vote for a Gordian knot solution. In other words, endorse everything that has been done so far, unprotect any protected titles, and treat the deletion history as though it had not happened. If anyone wants to move either of the draft articles into mainspace (leaving a space between the name and opening parenthesis this time, ideally) let them go ahead and do so, and let anyone else AFD them anew if they want to. Stifle (talk) 20:14, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Un-delete: Well, based on the conversation so far, I vote to un-delete the article and place it under whatever title in mainspace, be it Matt Lee, or Matt Lee (parenthesis something).76.94.31.7 (talk) 20:30, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to say I recommend the User:Bill Blake990/Matt Lee(guitar player) version as it seems to be the most recent version with the most refs.76.94.31.7 (talk) 20:37, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the evidence here, you can see where someone eradicated the entry on the talk page. Here's the link and you can see where an admin undid the speedy delete based on work they recognized being done to the article. They moved the file from Matt Lee(musician deluxe) to Matt Lee. It's the 3rd entry down.76.94.31.7 (talk) 20:53, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RE: above just click on the logs and you'll see what I'm talking about. That will give you the forensics I have for now. Thanks.76.94.31.7 (talk) 20:56, 31 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Matt Lee(musician deluxe)

- At the logs link above, you'll find User:Metropolitan90 is the admin that changed the page from Matt Lee(musician deluxe) to Matt Lee.