Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball

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MLB Wild Card Game

Would appreciate input at this discussion, concerning the 'new' playoff format. GoodDay (talk) 17:46, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

An RM has been opened. GoodDay (talk) 15:33, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

T206 Honus Wagner Featured article review

I have nominated T206 Honus Wagner for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Delist" in regards to the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:49, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Accessibility issues with MLB brackets

Hello. There is an issue with the current tournament brackets used in MLB pages, such as {{8TeamBracket-MLB}} and {{10TeamBracket-MLB}}. The background colors used cause an accessibility issue. Specifically, neither the red nor the blue background is WCAG AAA compatible for standard blue links and purple visited links. Per MOS:COLOR, we should be meeting the AAA standard whenever possible. It is in my opinion that the colors are largely unnecessary, and we should be using the standard grey background that is ued for every other team bracket, such as {{8TeamBracket}}. Nonetheless, the accessibility issue should be addressed. – Pbrks ^(t • c) 05:47, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Question about suspensions in infobox

Can I get a second opinion on this edit? It seems to me that the Tatís suspension is different from ARod's in exactly the most meaningful way--he wasn't suspended for an entire year--but on the other hand, it's true he isn't going to play for all of the 2022 season. I just didn't realize that we do 2015-2020, 2022-present anytime someone misses a year for any reason, if that's true. Alyo (chat·edits) 13:32, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

The info box lists the years someone plays for a team.. it's not just suspensions, if someone misses a year due to injury it is also treated that way. Spanneraol (talk) 14:22, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Got it, thanks! Alyo (chat·edits) 14:54, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Proposal regarding WP:NBASE

A proposal to eliminate WP:NBASE is underway. It can be viewed at Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)#Proposal to eliminate WP:NBASE. Cbl62 (talk) 16:06, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

It really is a shame how the anti-sports posse has completed butchered the notability guidelines. Spanneraol (talk) 16:58, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Disagree. Therapyisgood (talk) 17:22, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Wild Card (Game/Series) or wild card (game/series)

I've noticed several pages (example) 2022 American League Wild Card Series, 2019 National League Wild Card Game, List of American League Wild Card winners & sections/subsections (example) National League Wild Card at 2022 Major League Baseball season, tend to use "Wild Card" rather then "wild card". Which is actually the correct form? Uppercase or lowercase. GoodDay (talk) 04:06, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

The series (and single game before it) are uppercase as proper nouns for the name of a specific recurring event, same as the Division Series and League Championship Series. And the World Series for that matter. On the other hand, earning a wild card berth is a generic noun because there are multiple per league. The comment at the move request that prompted this can and should be ignored; the editor who made it has proven he doesn't actually understand the fundamentals of English grammar in terms of proper and common nouns and resorts to shallow google tests without actually examining the results. It wouldn't be the first time he's stuck his nose in a field he has no clue about in an attempt to force his misunderstanding of the conventions of English. oknazevad (talk) 04:19, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

I figured the capitalised version was correct. But, just wanted to be certain. GoodDay (talk) 04:26, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Lowercase: It's a common noun, not a proper name, in the cases where it is not part of the name of an event. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:05, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

I think you'd face resistance in attempting to use (for examples) 2019 National League wild card game or List of American League wild card winners, etc. GoodDay (talk) 05:09, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

The first of those two might be the proper name of a specific event. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 05:16, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Exactly. The first one is a specific recurring event. It gets capitals as a proper noun. The second is a generic term and common noun. The fact that the second is lowercase has no bearing on whether the first should be capitalized. That's my concern, that some don't get that simple fact. oknazevad (talk) 17:23, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Lowercase for the term, uppercase for the round, but I think "List of American League wild card winners" is a silly concept for a page anyway. We don't have a page listing wild cards in the NFL or NHL. O.N.R. ^(talk) 17:18, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

It made more sense when there was just the one per league, making it a distinct and unique annual achievement. Once a second wild card team was added (and the Wild Card Game begun), then it ceased to be particularly noteworthy. oknazevad (talk) 17:29, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Lowercase It's just a desriptive name of common English words, whose meaning does not change whether it is captialized or not. Leagues captitalize for branding and emphasis, but our MOS does not require us to be a slave to their decisions. For example, The New York Times is usually conservative with capitalization: On Tuesday night, in the National League wild card game at Nationals Park...[1]—Bagumba (talk) 18:06, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

• Lowercase in most cases, as a perusal of sources makes clear. It is nowhere near consistently capitalized in sources, so per MOS:CAPS we shouldn't capitalize it. I've downcased this in hundreds of places already these year, and got not one peep of feedback. As BP notes, there may be some proper names of events in some of these that include American League or National League Wild Card Game, etc., but most uses of wild card are generic, like wild card winners (ideally hyphenated, too). The observed "tendency to capitalize" is not much to do with Wild Card; there's a big tendency in sports to capitalize everything; look at my tens of thousands of edits this year for copious examples; or my hundreds from this weekend. Dicklyon (talk) 20:24, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Lowercase if kept, per Baguma, et al.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  20:56, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Uppercase - as this is how MLB does it. GoodDay (talk) 20:59, 4 September 2022 (UTC)
• Lowercase The OP is posed as a question. To the question, this is not intrinsically a proper noun phrase. I am seeing nothing in the discussion (evidence) that would support that it should be considered necessary capitalisation per MOS:CAPS. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

PS Specificity does not inherently make something a proper name, since this can be done by the definite article (the) and other modifiers, as is done in these cases. That the presiding body capitalises, does not satisfy MOS:CAPS per consistent usage in independent sources. Cinderella157 (talk) 03:40, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Uppercase - It is a event like the Division Series that occurs in both leagues. So it should be capilized like Division Series. Nemov (talk) 12:28, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

  That would best be fixed by fixing Division series, which is not a proper name, but a generic term encompassing two different series. Dicklyon (talk) 03:24, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

• Uppercase for the games as they are all events that are proper names. I'd suggest renaming the list page as List of American League wild card teams as the list is not just showing the winners of the games but mentions all the teams that held that distinction. Spanneraol (talk) 13:20, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Uppercase when referring to a specific event or title within MLB, as this would be a proper nown. Lowercase when speaking in generalities about a wild card position. Skipple ☎ 14:43, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

• Mix I would echo User:Oknazevad's point up above: Uppercase when referring to the proper-noun event (e.g., "leading the Nationals to a 4-3 victory in the National League Wild Card Game") and lowercase when referring to the concept (e.g., "competing for a wild card spot") generally. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:14, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Notice of related RM

An RM has been opened up, concerning League Championship Series and Division Series. -- GoodDay (talk) 03:52, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Note: RM was closed as 'not moved'. Thus remaining League Championship Series and Division Series. GoodDay (talk) 03:29, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

LCS & DS pages unilaterally moved

FWIW - The pages League Championship Series & Division Series have been moved to League championship series & Division series without going through the RM process & thus failing to obtain a consensus for such page moves. GoodDay (talk) 16:12, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

I will move them back. LCS and DS are proper nouns. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:15, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

This case is more interesting. Without captialization, it looks like a generic term for any league's championship series. But "League Championship Series", without being prefaced, is typically referring to MLB's series, specifically either the NLCS or ALCS. —Bagumba (talk) 18:14, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

MOS:CAPS discourages using caps for a "looks like" effect; caps are reserved for proper names. These are generic terms that encompass several proper-named events, but are not proper names themselves. I've started an RM. Dicklyon (talk) 03:26, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

I've left a notice at the RM at Major League Baseball Wild Card Game. -- GoodDay (talk) 03:56, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Standardization of inline statistics?

After doing some searching through the talk page archives and reviewing the WikiProject's MOS, I haven't been able to find any uniform guidelines on how to present stats in the prose of an article. If they in fact don't exist, I think it's prudent that we create a standard. Something in particular I've seen is that there is a lot of variation in whether single-digit stats are presented as digits or spelled out (e.g. Trout had 8 RBI in the game vs. Trout had eight RBI in the game). I think most people would lean towards spelling such numbers out, but it should be clarified regardless. Another question is which stats should or should not be included in prose and what order they should go in. I think the latter question has some more flexibility. Sewageboy (talk) 20:23, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

I've always spelled out any single digit stats in prose.. as to what stats are included.. really I think it is hard to spell out particularly as different stats would be more important to different players.. One thing I hate though is when people write "Player A slashed .300/.400/.700" as "slashed" is not explained and neither are what those numbers represent. I've avoided doing that myself and try to correct it when I come across it... but it's definitely sloppy writing and should be avoided. Spanneraol (talk) 22:53, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed on the slash line. Hopefully that can be clarified too, especially since I've even seen some instances of the SLG being replaced with OPS. Sewageboy (talk) 23:08, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

It should be "RBIs" for plural, "RBI" for one. We went over that in the past and I think it's in the archives of this talk page. Single-digit numbers should be spelled out as per MOS:NUMERAL. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:10, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

We can update the WP:BASESTYLEPL page with some of this. Spanneraol (talk) 00:56, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Since it's for more than player pages, I think Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball/Style advice is a better location. I've added a writing style section to the style advice page. isaacl (talk) 02:56, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Regarding "Player A slashed .300/.400/.700", I typically change those to "Player A had a .300/.400/.700 slash line." as needed. Dmoore5556 (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

As the linked explanation only lists a typical interpretation, I think it might be better to spell it out as "(BA/OBP/SLG)", though I realize that's kind of verbose to type. Perhaps we could create a template to make it easier (it could be designed to only be used through substitution). isaacl (talk) 16:17, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Aftermath sections (continued)

Continuing the discussion from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 48 § Aftermath sections: following that discussion, I removed the passage in question once again, but the other editor has restored it. Participation at Talk:1981 National League Championship Series#Aftermath is welcome to discuss the matter further. isaacl (talk) 04:46, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

More participation to help establish that a consensus has been reached would be helpful. Thanks! isaacl (talk) 16:20, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

This is a good discussion to have at a greater scale. I've seen things put in "aftermath" of postseason series articles that are really beyond the "aftermath" of that series. The future of the franchise is not automatically "aftermath". – Muboshgu (talk) 16:24, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Like, what does the Lerner family selling the Nationals in 2022 have to do with the 2019 World Series?[2] – Muboshgu (talk) 16:48, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Sure; that's why I launched the previous discussion on this talk page. I see too much "here are future playoff appearances by the teams" in the "Aftermath" sections. Also, "aftermath" has negative connotations as it is commonly used for consequence from some unpleasant event. Some other heading such as "Aftereffects" might be more fitting, and emphasize how the content in the section should be direct consequences of the subject of the article.

Regarding the sale of the Nationals, if reliable sources make the case for a connection, it could be in theory included (owners can decide to sell teams when their market value is high). It might be a better fit in the 2019 Nationals season article though, and certainly ought to be covered in the Nationals article itself. isaacl (talk) 20:17, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Aftermath should be something directly connected to the series.. things like the Astros cheating scandal... and not every article needs one. Or if it's something like the division series, then it is ok to mention what happened to the teams in the next few rounds. Spanneraol (talk) 00:16, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I haven't checked them out, but I imagine that articles about the Lerners seeking to sell the team will mention the 2019 World Series, not because it's relevant, but because what else are they going to write about? – Muboshgu (talk) 00:28, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

If there's no specific causal link, then it's just X happened after Y, without it being part of the aftermath. The owners might be motivated to sell for other reasons than winning the World Series. isaacl (talk) 00:37, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

I think looking for a "causal link" is a good standard for these aftermath sections. Future playoff series matchups are not cause-and-effect. – Muboshgu (talk) 01:38, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

AfD: Two-ball

I have nominated the article Two-ball for deletion. As the article appears in Category:Baseball terminology, it may be of interest to some editors here. Dmoore5556 (talk) 04:11, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

I haven't even heard of that game. Spanneraol (talk)

Yes, it needs to be deleted before some adds "dogfight football" to the article! BilCat (talk) 05:02, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Tom Butters (baseball)#Requested move 5 September 2022

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Tom Butters (baseball)#Requested move 5 September 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. – robertsky (talk) 16:20, 19 September 2022 (UTC)