Talk:Karl Lagerfeld
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Fair use rationale for Image:Karl Lagerfeld diet.jpg
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Working life
editIn the Personal info Fendi should also be added except Karl Lagerfeld and Chanel, as he is head designer there too. I don't know how too edit this myself.
International fame (1982–present) Section needs to be expanded for 30+ year timeline. MorningMrBond (talk) 03:28, 3 October 2010 (UTC) (new user)
We could expand to include that Lagerfeld is credited for designing the Fendi logo? Sources for this are here [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sprgqh (talk • contribs) 21:35, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
Personal life
editIs the weight loss and ipod trivia all that is known about his adult personal life?--92.226.137.217 (talk) 15:55, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
Under the heading "Early life" it is stated that Karls lastname was Lagerfeldt and that he later changed it. Yet in the first section it says Karl Lagerfeld (born Karl Otto Lagerfeld; September 10, 1933). It should be (born Karl Otto Lagerfeldt). Small but important change. 81.170.156.146 (talk) 18:31, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Asexual claim
editShould the claim that he is asexual be removed? It is unsourced and it may violate the strict guidelines on WP:Biographies of living persons Cambrasa 23:12, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
- Resolved, I have just tracked down a source for the claim [1] and will add it. Cambrasa 23:15, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
oh come on just look at him, he's gay as a summer hat —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.16.239.160 (talk) 07:37, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
His NNDB page is (apart from this talk page), the only place I've seen it stated that he's asexual. However, Cliff Richard's NNDB page states that he's asexual, but we all know what his orientation really is! Werdnawerdna (talk) 00:03, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
NY Times (good source - NNDB is hardly a primary source) says his "great love" was Jacques de Bascher, who had previously been the object of Yves Saint Laurent's obsession, though Lagerfeld more recently says he did not have a physical relationship with de Bascher. Yves of Destruction, December 24, 2000--Larrybob (talk) 15:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
- Lagerfeld is from the old-time generation, still in the closet.76.17.118.157 (talk) 18:06, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
- Lagerfeld's "asexual" comment was in reference to his current sexual state as a man in his late 70's. Like most men his age, he's no longer interested or even physically capable of sexual intercourse. Hence, he's "asexual". To say that Karl Lagerfeld is "in the closet" is a rather bizarre claim. He discusses Paris's gay scene that he was very much a part of in his youth in great detail in his Diet Book.Bogan444 (talk) 17:19, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
- So I suppose these are two straight men in this picture.[2] 84.244.183.120 (talk) 17:51, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Date of birth
editapparently his DoB is not necessarily in 1933. [3] SCRA5071 (talk) 05:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
this doesn't make sense:
"He has alleged he was born in 1938 however it has been reported that he was actually born in 1938" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Preauxx (talk • contribs) 13:51, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
His schoolmates were all born in 1932 or 1933 so it is possible that he was too smart in school and made a 5 year jump haha — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.113.99.138 (talk) 00:38, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
This date of birth issue is causing errors to arise under the "Career" subsection, the first sentence of which states: "In 1955, after living in Paris for two years, Lagerfeld entered a coat design competition sponsored by the International Wool Secretariat at the age of sixteen." If he were indeed born in 1933, then he would have been in his 20's during this competition. So either the date of the competition or his age during the competition or his 'conclusively proven" birth year of 1933 is incorrect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KajHansen (talk • contribs) 06:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
What's with all the high collars?
editEvery photo I've seen he has those on. Is it for a practical reason or just more of a fetish? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.193.228.246 (talk) 07:31, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
- Hides chicken neck. 84.244.183.120 (talk) 17:43, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Work
editWhy doesn't this article reference his work with Chanel? Violetbeau (talk) 03:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Why doesn't this article reference Kimora Lee (Perkins) Simmons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.117.207.76 (talk) 04:57, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
Karl Lagerfeld has been the Chief Designer at Channel since 1983. It is the most significant aspect of his professional career and the thing that has brought him international fame. To have a Karl Lagerfeld entry without mentioning Channel is like talking about Babe Ruth without mentioning the New York Yankees.Bogan444 (talk) 17:45, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
When did "helm" (as "helms") become a verb? Evil Prince (talk) 13:09, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
His father's nationality
editCan someone explain these sentences? "Karl's father is from Vladivostok, Russia; his mother is from Berlin, Germany (according to "Lagerfeld Confidential", Marconi Rodolphe, 2006). Though Lagerfeld has stated that his father was Swedish, journalist Alicia Drake in The Beautiful Fall (Little, Brown, 2006) established that Karl's father, Otto Lagerfeldt, who worked as a distributor at a company introducing condensed milk to Germany, was indeed German" So, was his father Russian, Swedish or German? Vladivostok is quite far from Germany btw.Aaker (talk) 17:08, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
- Karl has always claimed his father was Swedish, but Karl sometimes lies about his past so one needs to take that with a grain of salt. Independent researches have concluded his father was most likely German. The city where a man happened to be born does not affect his nationality. Vladivostok was a major port city on the Pacific Ocean and had a multi-ethnic population until the Communists expelled the non-Russians in the late 20th Century. Hope that helps.Bogan444 (talk) 17:51, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
- Just saw the Karl Lagerfeld: Un Roi Seul / Karl Lagerfeld: Lonely King documentary. Here they said that his father was Danish... I'll update the main article to reflect this... Hertell (talk) 20:19, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Anti-gay marriage comments
edithttp://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/04/09/karl-lagerfeld-speaks-sex-marriage-gay-parents/ 76.17.118.157 (talk) 18:04, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Pirelli calendar
editHe also shot the 2011 famous pirelli calender with famous models. Maybe worthy to mention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.54.157.44 (talk) 19:07, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
File:Karl Lagerfeld at Chanel Couture Show (2011).jpg Nominated for speedy deletion
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External links modified
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Sexual orientation
editI have removed the "gay men" category which was not supported by the article's content or by references. It seems that his sexual orientation is a complicated issue; compare for example the footnote here which cites various sources on this topic. Huon (talk) 19:18, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
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né Lagerfeldt ?
editI think his parents should have known his correct birthname and they clearly write Lagerfeld without that "t" at the ending. 2A02:8108:1340:5E70:497F:63D2:A37:11FD (talk) 15:49, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Very surprising given that his father's name was Lagerfeld. This is unsourced, or at least the article even goes on to suggest this was based on the mis-information that his father was Swedish. Also no mention at all in the de:wiki article. Suggest it is removed from both the lead and the infobox. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:05, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, it's in the BBC source within the lead, the source was moved to the end of the parentheses for some reason. Karl Lagerfeld also stated that his father's name was Otto Ludwig Lagerfeldt, suggesting that both used "Lagerfeld" as public name. Lordtobi (✉) 16:08, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- I see. Easily missed. There still seems to be some contradiction with the parents' names used in the article text. Perhaps an explicit explanatory footnote would help the reader? Thanks for explaining. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Lagerfeld himself couldn't remember his date of birth and made a mystery around the exact year (1938, 1935). He loved to create such "stories" (like the Swedish background) and these hoaxes are sometimes repeated even by reliable sources. 2A02:8108:1340:5E70:497F:63D2:A37:11FD (talk) 16:18, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Here are some sources regarding his father's background, his name was Lagerfeld Otto Lagerfeld Biography; Otto Lagerfeld Hamburgische Biografie Band 2, Otto Lagerfeld, Hamburger Abendblatt 19. September 1956 2A02:8108:1340:5E70:497F:63D2:A37:11FD (talk) 16:27, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Oh. So it seems that we, along with the BBC, are just posthumously indulging Lagerfeld in one of his best invented myths? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:29, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- The Hamburgerische Biografie source says Karl Lagerfeld was born in 1935, while the Deutsche Biographie says 1938, both of which we know is wrong. Isn't there any source that has all facts straight, one that we can trust? Lordtobi (✉) 16:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- For a long time his year of birth was a mystery and only after some journalists found some hard evidence 1933 became the acknowledged year. That some older sources trusted Lagerfeld's own statements isn't surprising. Every information given by Karl Lagerfeld himself should be taken with a grain of salt. 2A02:8108:1340:5E70:497F:63D2:A37:11FD (talk) 17:08, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- The Hamburgerische Biografie source says Karl Lagerfeld was born in 1935, while the Deutsche Biographie says 1938, both of which we know is wrong. Isn't there any source that has all facts straight, one that we can trust? Lordtobi (✉) 16:37, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Oh. So it seems that we, along with the BBC, are just posthumously indulging Lagerfeld in one of his best invented myths? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:29, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- I see. Easily missed. There still seems to be some contradiction with the parents' names used in the article text. Perhaps an explicit explanatory footnote would help the reader? Thanks for explaining. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Martinevans123, it's in the BBC source within the lead, the source was moved to the end of the parentheses for some reason. Karl Lagerfeld also stated that his father's name was Otto Ludwig Lagerfeldt, suggesting that both used "Lagerfeld" as public name. Lordtobi (✉) 16:08, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 19 February 2019
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Death
Following health complications in January 2019, Lagerfeld was admitted to the <a href="/wiki/American_Hospital_of_Paris" title="American Hospital of Paris">American Hospital of Paris</a> in Parisian suburb <a href="/wiki/Neuilly-sur-Seine" title="Neuilly-sur-Seine">Neuilly-sur-Seine</a> on 18 February. The morning after, he died at that hospital, aged 85. Karl Lagerfeld died from Pancreatic cancer, an illness he concealed from everyone but close family and professional contacts .[2]
Black Eagle Flight (talk) 20:16, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
References
- Not done. Daily Mail is a tabeloid and not a reliable source. Lordtobi (✉) 21:25, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Road safety advert
editThis seems to have been unfortunately rather overlooked from 2008. A mention here in Vogue and in The Cut. I think it was quite a big thing in France. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:48, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
Awarded France's Legion of Honour
editThe government of France made him a Commandeur de la Legion d'honneur in 2010. This should be mentioned in his entry! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.111.162.122 (talk) 23:12, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks. Do you have a good source for that honour? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:46, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- The German Wikiedia has a newspaper source (archived) for this, title translates to French Order of Merit for KL, "url=http://www.rp-online.de/gesellschaft/leute/Franzoesischer-Verdienstorden-fuer-Karl-Lagerfeld_aid_865064.html |wayback=20100606213102 |text=Französischer Verdienstorden für Karl Lagerfeld. In: Rheinische Post. 4. Juni 2010", - and for several other honours. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
One of France's poorer decisions, apparently. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.188.108.53 (talk) 19:09, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Godwin’s law
edit...is that really necessary? --78.49.25.207 (talk) 23:13, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
- Time to break out that little black dress? (but take the swastikas off first). Martinevans123 (talk) 10:37, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2019
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Karl Lagerfeld dies aged 85 from pancreatic cancer [1] Yolga (talk) 05:00, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- Already done – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
References
Age in 1955
editThe early career section claims: "In 1955, after living in Paris for two years, Lagerfeld entered a coat design competition sponsored by the International Wool Secretariat at the age of sixteen." He was obviously not 16 in 1955. 2A02:8108:1340:5E70:5410:8E1E:8811:9779 (talk) 11:31, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
- No mention of his age in the source given so I think it can be removed. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:41, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
Dark glasses
editPresumably these were always Chanel branded? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:16, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2019
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In the "Controversies" section, there is a space between "Fatphobic" and the comma to its right.
X: Fatphobic , Y: Fatphobic, 71.201.47.203 (talk) 15:49, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
- Just done by User:Theroadislong. - ChrisWar666 (talk) 16:31, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
Flagging up possible plagiarism
editMy edit today removed text that was machine translated from its cited Danish source. I was initially going to reconstruct it to fit a more encyclopedia tone, but upon further inspection it was simply a copy. I removed it for concerns of plagiarism, though I am not an expert on that topic. I wanted to flag it up here so that other editors might scrutinize further contributions to this article carefully. I also wanted to flag up that I removed these sources, though they may be valuable to restore. Thanks! Bss7 (talk) 16:00, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Working on Controversies Section
editIs anyone currently working on the controversies section? I noticed the template there, but I haven't worked on one with this specific template notice yet. Super interested in working here, if others are wanting to collab. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pumpkinspyce (talk • contribs) 01:43, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
Suggestion for infobox and models list
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello editors, I'm Marina and I work for the KARL LAGERFELD brand. The editors who have worked on this page have captured a lot of information about Karl Lagerfeld's life and career. I'm here to offer a few clarifications and suggestions for additional details to add to the article. As a connected contributor, I know I need to follow Wikipedia's rules and present requests for review.
There are two items I'd initially like to bring for discussion:
- In the infobox table, there's a parenthetical "(in German)" following the website link. Can this be removed? The website is not just in German
- In the final collection section, there's a very long table listing every model and their nationality from the final tribute runway show. This information has no references, seems excessive to me, and doesn't really fit in a biographical article. Do editors agree with removing this, too?
Looking forward to seeing editors' thoughts on these, and please feel free to reach out if I can help in general. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 15:48, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- Approved The table had no way of verifying each name within it, with the only two names attached to references being the individuals who ostensibly opened and closed the show, and both given the same ref note. Many of the names were not notable. The association of nationalities to each of the names was odd; this is done in funeral articles, however, this particular show was not a funeral per se, and funeral articles which do list attendees and their nationalities usually have that information referenced. Regards, Spintendo 13:50, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
Suggestion for Early career update
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello again editors, I'm Marina and I work for the KARL LAGERFELD brand. I have a new request, this time about the Early career section. The first paragraph in this section currently reads as follows:
Existing first paragraph of History section
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In 1954, Lagerfeld submitted a dress design to the International Wool Secretariat's design competition that presaged the chemise dresses that would be introduced by Givenchy and Balenciaga in 1957.[1] In 1955, after living in Paris for two years, Lagerfeld entered a coat design competition sponsored by the International Wool Secretariat. He won the coat category and befriended Yves Saint Laurent, who won the dress category, and was soon after hired by Pierre Balmain who was a judge for the competition. He worked as Balmain's assistant, and later apprentice, for three years.[2][3] References
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The wording in this paragraph is confusing, as it seems like Karl entered the same contest twice. I tried cleaning up the language to better reflect the chronology:
Revised first paragraph of History section
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In 1954, Lagerfeld submitted a dress design to the International Wool Secretariat's design competition.[1] His submitted entry presaged the chemise dresses that would be introduced by Givenchy and Balenciaga three years later.[1] In 1955, Lagerfeld entered another IWS competition and won in the coat category.[2] He also befriended another winner, Yves Saint Laurent, and was soon after hired by Pierre Balmain who was a judge for the competition.[3] He worked as Balmain's assistant, and later apprentice, for three years.[3] References
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If this revision makes sense, I'm hoping that editors can update this paragraph. Thank you! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 11:08, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- Done - I think the new wording is less confusing, works well, and is well sourced. Completed as requested. Lewcm Talk to me! 14:40, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
Additional suggestion for Early career update
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello again editors, this is Marina from the KARL LAGERFELD brand. I have a follow-up request about the Early career section. The second paragraph in this section currently reads as follows:
Existing second paragraph of Early career section
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In 1958, Lagerfeld became the artistic director for Jean Patou. In 1964, he went to Rome to study art history and work for Tiziani but was soon designing freelance for a many brands including Charles Jourdan, Chloé, Krizia, and Valentino.[1] In 1965, he was hired by Fendi to modernize their fur line. Lagerfeld's innovative designs proved groundbreaking, as he introduced the use of mole, rabbit, and squirrel pelts into high fashion. Lagerfeld remained with Fendi Rome until his death.[1] References
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The current reference here is the Encyclopedia Britannica, and some of the details are not quite correct, so I have identified sources that provide more context and specificity. For example, the dates that Lagerfeld started working with Jean Patou and that he worked with Tiziani can be confirmed in the new sources. I've also added a sentence to note when he left Jean Patou and that he was one of the first major designers to work freelance.
Revised second paragraph of Early career section
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In 1957, Lagerfeld became the artistic director for Jean Patou.[1] He left Jean Patou in 1962, to become a freelance designer,[2] one of the first designers to do so.[3] From 1963 to 1969, he designed for the Rome-based fashion house Tiziani.[4] During this time he also designed freelance for brands including Charles Jourdan, Chloé, Krizia, and Valentino.[1] In 1965, he was hired by Fendi to modernize their fur line. Lagerfeld's innovative designs proved groundbreaking, including the introduction of less expensive furs such as rabbit and squirrel pelts into high fashion, and launching a ready-to-wear line. He also designed the brand's double F logo.[5] Lagerfeld remained with Fendi Rome until his death.[1] References
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If these edits look good to editors, I hope the paragraph can be updated. Thank you! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 11:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
- @MB for KARL LAGERFELD: Just one question and one observation. It says
He left Jean Patou in 1962, to become a freelance designer
. Then it saysFrom 1963 to 1969, he designed for the Rome-based fashion house Tiziani.
Following that, it saysDuring this time he also designed freelance for brands including Charles Jourdan, Chloé, Krizia, and Valentino.
My question is, was his work for Tiziani freelance work or otherwise? I ask because Tiziani is mentioned right after the claim to beginning freelancing, and yet, in the groupings of freelance work claimed immediately after this, Tiziani is not mentioned. Tiziani is mentioned by itself, but if it was freelance work just as much as the others' work was, why aren't all the houses where freelanced work was done mentioned together? (ensemble, as the French would say).[a] Then, my observation would be the claimLagerfeld's innovative designs proved groundbreaking
. No one is disputing this — but it would be better if this claim were not made using Wikipedia's WP:VOICE. If we could find a prominent reviewer from say WWD or French Vogue, who could be mentioned as stating this, it would sound better. Surely there would be no difficulty in finding such a reviewer and their published statements that ran along these lines. Let me know what you can find. When ready to proceed, kindly change the{{Edit COI}}
request template's answer parameter to read from|ans=y
to|ans=n
. Thank you!
Notes
- ^ In the first sentence (KL's work with Tiziani) we're calling it "designed". In the second sentence (KL's work with the other, listed houses) we're calling it "designed freelance". By giving these roles two different names, we're implying a disparity which might not exist. At this point in the text the reader will already be aware that KL's work was as a designer, so the use of "freelance designer" or "designed freelance" is a bit superfluous. It need only be stated that KL "freelanced", and the reader will safely assume that this freelanced work was in design. My suggested phrasings which resolve this question would be the following:
"From 1963 to 1969, he
designedfreelanced for the Rome-based fashion house Tiziani."
- Regards, Spintendo 14:43, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you for this feedback, User:Spintendo. It took me a little time to look into the Tiziani detail and confirm, so thank you for your patience also. He was freelance with Tiziani, so I've edited to collapse the two sentences together and simplify to "freelanced" as you suggested.
- For the statement "Lagerfeld's innovative designs proved groundbreaking", this is already included in the article with no reference. I felt that the Independent reference that I added corroborates the statement (see quotes below), but I understand your point about not wanting this to be a statement from Wikipedia but rather attributed to a particular outlet or writer. I've edited the draft below to do that.
- From The Independent reference:
- "Nevertheless, Lagerfeld and Fendi have innovated in a way that has revolutionised the industry - not least, for Fendi, the introduction of a ready-to-wear line in 1969, in a period when haute couture ruled fashion and when handbag makers or leather specialists never overstepped their boundaries."
- "If Lagerfeld's Chanel paved the way for the revival of a myriad of moribund labels, his work with Fendi paved the way for accessory-peddling labels like Prada and Louis Vuitton to expand into the rag trade proper."
- From The Independent reference:
V2 Revised second paragraph of Early career section
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In 1957, Lagerfeld became the artistic director for Jean Patou.[1] He left Jean Patou in 1962, to become a freelance designer,[2] one of the first designers to do so.[3] In the 1960s, he freelanced for brands including Charles Jourdan, Chloé, Krizia, Valentino,[1] and for the Rome-based fashion house Tiziani.[4] In 1965, he was hired by Fendi to modernize their fur line. The fashion editor of The Independent, Alexander Fury, wrote in 2015 that Lagerfeld's designs for Fendi were innovative and proved groundbreaking within the industry. These included the introduction of less expensive furs such as rabbit and squirrel pelts into high fashion, and launching a ready-to-wear line. He also designed the brand's double F logo.[5] Lagerfeld remained with Fendi Rome until his death.[1] References
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- If this answers both your queries, are you able to update the paragraph? Thank you! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 11:51, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- Done in light of the above discussion and revisions made. WhinyTheYounger ※ Talk 03:49, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
- If this answers both your queries, are you able to update the paragraph? Thank you! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 11:51, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
- Done WhinyTheYounger ※ Talk 03:50, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
Another suggested Early career section update
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
This is Marina again from the KARL LAGERFELD brand. I have another request about the Early career section. I'm hoping we can add a new paragraph to the end of this section that covers how and why Karl Lagerfeld took up photography:
New photography paragraph for end of Early career section
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Lagerfeld took up photography in 1987[1] after being frustrated with images done for Chanel press kits.[2] Chanel's then-image director, Éric Pfrunder, encouraged Lagerfeld to redo them himself,[2] and photography soon became one of the passions of Lagerfeld's life outside of design.[3] He went on to shoot commercial fashion campaigns,[1] celebrity profiles for magazines like Harper's Bazaar,[4] and more experimental architectural and landscape work.[5] “I’m an illustrator with a camera,” Lagerfeld told Women's Wear Daily at an exhibition of his work at the Maison Européenne de la Photographie.[6] References
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Photography was obviously an important component of his career and the origin of his interest in the craft seems relevant, especially given the amount of media coverage of the topic. If the draft paragraph I put together seems relevant, I'm hoping that editors can add it to the end of the section. Thank you! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 09:22, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
- Tagging WhinyTheYounger, Lewcm, Spintendo, and Moonswimmer as they appear to be monitoring this Talk page and have reviewed my previous requests. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 11:14, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
- Suggested text:
- Lagerfeld took up photography in 1987[1] after being frustrated with images done for Chanel press kits. Chanel's then-image director, Éric Pfrunder, encouraged Lagerfeld to redo them himself,[2] and photography
soonbecame one of the passions of Lagerfeld's life outside of design.[3] He went on to shoot commercial fashion campaigns,[1]celebrity profileseditorial shots for magazines like Harper's Bazaar,[4] as well asmore experimentalarchitectural and landscape work.[5] “I’m an illustrator with a camera,” Lagerfeld told Women's Wear Daily at an exhibition of his work at the Maison Européenne de la Photographie.[6] Mooonswimmer 18:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC) Mooonswimmer 18:03, 28 February 2024 (UTC)- These revisions look fine to me, Moonswimmer. I appreciate you taking the time to review and would be grateful if you could make the update. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 13:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Done. Mooonswimmer 14:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for your help here, Mooonswimmer. I just posted a new request that I'm hoping you can look at as well when you have time. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 18:47, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- Done. Mooonswimmer 14:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
- These revisions look fine to me, Moonswimmer. I appreciate you taking the time to review and would be grateful if you could make the update. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 13:32, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
Suggested expansion of paragraph about eponymous branch launch
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello, this is Marina from the KARL LAGERFELD brand. I'm back with another request, this time about expanding the paragraph in the International fame with Chanel (1982–2000) section that covers the branch's launch in 1984.
Right now the paragraph looks like this:
Current brand launch paragraph
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In 1984, a year after his start at Chanel, Lagerfeld began his own eponymous "Karl Lagerfeld" brand. The brand was established to channel "intellectual sexiness".[7] References
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I propose that this paragraph be replaced with the following:
Expanded brand launch paragraph
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In 1984, a year after his start at Chanel, Lagerfeld began his own eponymous "Karl Lagerfeld" brand with a focus on ready-to-wear clothing.[1] In 1989 the Lagerfeld label was purchased by the Cora Revillon Group, which had previously reached an agreement to manufacture and market Karl Lagerfeld-branded products.[2] That same year, Lagerfeld launched two Karl Lagerfeld brand menswear lines.[3] References
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I swapped the "intellectual sexiness" line for more encyclopedic details about the brand's origin and history, all supported with citations to Vogue, UPI, and the Chicago Tribune.
If this revised paragraph seems like an improvement, I'm hoping editors can make the update. Thank you again for your help with these requests. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 18:45, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'm again tagging WhinyTheYounger, Lewcm, Spintendo, and Mooonswimmer for assistance here, as they have reviewed my previous requests. I have also created a draft for the eponymous brand that is currently under review and could use additional eyes from interested editors. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 15:18, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Would you be able to provide a better source to corroborate "In 1989, the Lagerfeld label was purchased by the Cora Revillon Group..." ? Mooonswimmer 18:07, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- I'm again tagging WhinyTheYounger, Lewcm, Spintendo, and Mooonswimmer for assistance here, as they have reviewed my previous requests. I have also created a draft for the eponymous brand that is currently under review and could use additional eyes from interested editors. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 15:18, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, Mooonswimmer, thanks for getting back to me. I have looked and looked for a source that specifies the purchase by Cora Revillon happened in 1989, but alas I'm not finding anything. Internally we are confident that timeline is correct, however I understand that Wikipedia requires sourcing that states so explicitly. Given this context, I have reworked the draft to remove the "In 1989 the Lagerfeld label was purchased by the Cora Revillon Group" claim and replaced it with wording that doesn't specify a year, along with additional information about the Revillon and subsequent Vendôme deals.
Reworked brand launch paragraphs
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In 1984, a year after his start at Chanel, Lagerfeld began his own eponymous "Karl Lagerfeld" brand with a focus on ready-to-wear clothing.[1] Lagerfeld had signed an agreement with Bidermann Industries USA, giving them ownership and licensing rights to fashion labels he produced.[2] Lagerfeld ended the agreement with Bidermann in 1989.[3] That same year, Lagerfeld launched two Karl Lagerfeld brand menswear lines.[4] The Lagerfeld label was then purchased by the Cora Revillon Group,[5] which had previously reached an agreement to manufacture and market Karl Lagerfeld-branded products.[6] In 1992, Dunhill Holdings—part of the Vendôme Luxury Group—acquired the Karl Lagerfeld brand from Cora-Revillon for an estimated $30 million.[7][3] The acquisition was part of the agreement the company made with Lagerfeld for him to return to designing for the fashion house Chloé.[3] Vendôme retained ownership of the brand for five years, until 1997, when it sold the brand back to Lagerfeld for a "symbolic one franc", following the end of his contract with Chloé.[8] Lagerfeld stated that Vendôme “had not hired the right people to manage it."[8]
References
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- As you can see, this draft is slightly longer at two paragraphs, but the details I've included are all specifically verified by the cited sources. Please let me know what you think. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 16:42, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi again,, Mooonswimmer. Just wanted to let you know that I made a similar chronological update over the Karl Lagerfeld brand draft that's currently being reviewed for approval. If you have time, it would great if you could provide feedback over there as well, as your comments here have been very instructive. Thanks! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 17:08, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
- Done But I kept the line about intellectual sexiness. It was a straight quote from Vogue. STEMinfo (talk) 00:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi again,, Mooonswimmer. Just wanted to let you know that I made a similar chronological update over the Karl Lagerfeld brand draft that's currently being reviewed for approval. If you have time, it would great if you could provide feedback over there as well, as your comments here have been very instructive. Thanks! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 17:08, 27 March 2024 (UTC)
Another suggested photography update
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello Wikipedia editors, I have put together another request (actually a series of several linked requests) that I'm hoping you can review. I had previously requested the addition of a new paragraph in the Early career section covering how and why Karl Lagerfeld took up photography. Mooonswimmer kindly reviewed this request, suggested some very reasonable wording changes, and then added the new material—but as a subsection in Personal life. I know this may seem pedantic, but I think it makes more sense to introduce this information at the very end of the Early career section, as including it in the Personal life section makes it seem like photography was a hobby or something done casually, rather than an important component of his professional career in fashion.
In this same vein, I would like to add some new photography material to the Other media section—which I think is actually a sub-subsection within the Final collection subsection? It probably makes sense to make Other media a normal subsection (within the larger Later career (2001-2019) section) and to retitle it as Other media and projects. Then we could, I hope, add the following material to the top of the section:
New photography material
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In 1994, Steidl publish Off the Record, a collection of Lagerfeld's photography.[1] The publishing house went on to release dozens of collections of his work,[1] including The Little Black Jacket in 2012, which featured 113 portraits of models and entertainers wearing the book's eponymous article,[2] and Karl Lagerfeld: Casa Malaparte in 2015, which documented the Italian Modernist architectural monument.[3] In 1996, the Zürich-based Galerie Gmurzynska began exhibiting Lagerfeld's photography.[4] In 1999, Lagerfeld opened 7L, a bookshop in Paris that specializes in photography collections and visual arts books.[5] In 2000, he launched a publishing imprint, Editions 7L, in collaboration with Steidl.[6] The imprint released books on fashion and photography and also republished rare and out-of-print books.[6] The 7L bookshop was reconceptualized after Lagerfeld's death as a space for cultural events.[5] In 2010, the Maison Européenne de la Photographie assembled the largest-ever exhibit of Lagerfeld's photography. The show featured selections from his commercial work for Chanel, his celebrity portraits for Vogue and other magazines, and his more abstract landscapes and architectural pieces, including a 2007 series titled "Another Side of Versailles."[7] In 2016, Palazzo Pitti hosted another exhibition of Karl Lagerfeld's photography[8] that included portraits and photos from fashion shoots, all inspired by classical mythology.[9] In 2019, following the news of Lagerfeld's death, Galerie Gmurzynska mounted a retrospective exhibition highlighting the past three decades of his work.[4] References
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I hope the sourcing here makes clear that Karl's photography received considerable media attention and was an art that he pursued professionally. There is certainly more that coud be said about it, but I feel like the above material is a good start. Please let me know what you think and thank you again for your thoughtful feedback and continued assistance with these updates. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 10:10, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- I placed the material at the end of the Early career section, but @Colibri1moved it to the Personal life section. I believe it is indeed better suited for the Early career section, given the commercial fashion campaigns and editorials Lagerfeld shot for major fashion publications. I look forward to @Colibri1's explanation for the move. Mooonswimmer 16:00, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Mooonswimmer, it looks like Colibri1 is not coming back to explain about this. Would you be comfortable with reviewing this new request to add details to the ‘’Other media’' section? MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 15:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- @MB for KARL LAGERFELD: This looked open still, so I merged the photography info into the other media section. Marking answered. STEMinfo (talk) 03:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Mooonswimmer, it looks like Colibri1 is not coming back to explain about this. Would you be comfortable with reviewing this new request to add details to the ‘’Other media’' section? MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 15:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
Documentary claim request
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello, Marina from Karl Lagerfeld back with another request. Right now there's a sentence in the Other media subsection stating that "A feature-length documentary film on the designer, Lagerfeld Confidential, was made by Vogue in 2007." The claim does not have a citation, and the information is actually not quite right. The film was made by Rodolphe Marconi, a French filmmaker. Vogue had nothing to do with it. I took a stab at rewording and adding a New York Times citation. Here's what the entire paragraph would look like with the update:
Revised documentary paragraph
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Lagerfeld and investments enterprise Dubai Infinity Holdings (DIH) signed a deal to design limited edition homes on the island of Isla Moda.[1][2] A feature-length documentary film on the designer, Lagerfeld Confidential, was made by Rodolphe Marconi in 2007.[3] Later in the year, Lagerfeld was made the host of the fictional radio station K109—the studio in the video game Grand Theft Auto IV, and its DLCs The Lost & Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony.[4] References
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I'm hoping an editor can review this proposed update and make the edit. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 08:11, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
- Done Sorry for previously erroneously marking as done. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 20:44, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Suggested Fashion / Collaboration / Awards sections update
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Hello again Wikipedia editors. I have a new request, this time about restructuring material in the Fashion subsection (which is the top subsection in the Later career section).
The Fashion subsection has four paragraphs. The first two are mostly about collaborations between Karl Lagerfeld and different brands (along with one mention of an award presented by the Fashion Institute of Technology). The next paragraph is about photography and early sketches. The final paragraph is about other assorted awards.
Because collaborations were such an important component of his career, I think the material about collaborations could be expanded into a separate subsection. I took a stab at this below. Please note that I trimmed back the details about the Diesel collaboration considerably. I did add a lot of new collaborations, but these projects all received considerable media coverage.
New Collaborations subsection
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Karl Lagerfeld was well known for his collaborations with brands and individuals.[1] Some of his notable collaborations during the 2000s and 2010s include the following:
References
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- Done - Added collaborations sub-section. STEMinfo (talk) 00:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
Likewise, I think the Awards material could be a separate subsection. In the draft below, I consolidated the existing awards claims, trimmed down the wording, and added one new claim about a Women's Wear Daily award.
New Awards subsection
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In September 2010, the Couture Council of The Museum at the Fashion Institute of Technology presented Lagerfeld with an award created for him, The Couture Council Fashion Visionary Award, at a benefit luncheon at Avery Fisher Hall, in New York City.[1] In November 2015, Karl Lagerfeld was presented with the Outstanding Achievement Award at the British Fashion Awards. Anna Wintour, Editor in Chief of American Vogue, presented the award.[2] In 2017 he received the John B. Fairchild Award from WWD.[3] References
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- Done - Added awards sub-section. STEMinfo (talk) 20:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
The claim about the Little Black Jacket photography book is included in my proposed photography update above. I'm not sure where the early sketches auctions claim could be moved. Maybe the Other media subsection?
I know I'm suggesting some big changes here so please let me know what you think. The feedback editors have provided in the past has been incredibly useful. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 11:42, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
Cause of death correction request
editThis edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
The second sentence in the Death, tributes, and retrospectives subsection states that "He died [in the American Hospital of Paris] the following morning from complications of pancreatic cancer." This is not correct, however. Karl Lagerfeld had prostate cancer. Early reporting, like the currently cited AOL article, unfortunately got the diagnosis wrong. Later reporting, however, clarified that it was prostate cancer. (E.g. this WWD article, which states "He died in February 2019 at age 85 after a long battle with prostate cancer, and an unprecedented career.")
I have updated the paragraph in question with the correct form of cancer and replaced the AOL citation with the WWD one.
Updated first paragraph from the Death, tributes, and retrospectives subsection
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After health complications in January 2019, Lagerfeld was admitted to the American Hospital of Paris in Parisian suburb Neuilly-sur-Seine on 18 February. He died there the following morning from complications of prostate cancer.[1][2] He requested no formal funeral with plans for cremation and ashes spread at secret locations alongside his mother as well as his late partner, Jacques de Bascher.[3][4] References
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Please let me know if you can make this update. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 17:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Done Thank you. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:04, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you so much the for prompt assistance, Martinevans123. If you have time, it would be great if you could look at some of the other requests I have posted here. I see that you've been active on this Talk page in the past and you clearly know the subject! There's also a draft for the eponymous brand being reviewed at AfC that could use feedback. It would be so helpful if someone with your subject matter expertise could take a look. Thank you again! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 07:28, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- I am no expert. I just edit what catches my eye, in almost random fashion. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:15, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you so much the for prompt assistance, Martinevans123. If you have time, it would be great if you could look at some of the other requests I have posted here. I see that you've been active on this Talk page in the past and you clearly know the subject! There's also a draft for the eponymous brand being reviewed at AfC that could use feedback. It would be so helpful if someone with your subject matter expertise could take a look. Thank you again! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 07:28, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
Further Death, tributes, and retrospectives updates
editThe user below has a request that an edit be made to Karl Lagerfeld. That user has an actual or apparent conflict of interest. The requested edits backlog is moderate. Please be patient. There are currently 138 requests waiting for review. Please read the instructions for the parameters used by this template for accepting and declining them, and review the request below and make the edit if it is well sourced, neutral, and follows other Wikipedia guidelines and policies. |
I have a few further suggestions for the Death, tributes, and retrospectives section, which would benefit from some clean up and structural changes. I put together the following revised draft which includes two subsection headers:
- @MB for KARL LAGERFELD: I'm reviewing your request and confirming that the information is properly sourced. I can't find the info about Jacques de Bascher's ashes being spread with Lagerfeld's. Can you check it? STEMinfo (talk) 20:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you very much for looking into this, User:Spintendo. Here [4] you can find a source that could help back up the information provided about Karl Lagerfeld ashes.
- Let me know if that helps! Thank you very much. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 08:36, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Tagging @STEMinfo since they were mistagged the first time, no pressure if you saw this but didn't have the time to respond. Rusalkii (talk) 16:55, 16 August 2024 (UTC)
Updated draft of Death, tributes, and retrospectives section
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After health complications in January 2019, Lagerfeld was admitted to the American Hospital of Paris in Parisian suburb Neuilly-sur-Seine on 18 February. He died there the following morning from complications of prostate cancer.[1][2] He requested no formal funeral with plans for cremation and ashes spread at secret locations alongside his mother as well as his late partner, Jacques de Bascher.[3][4] Lagerfeld was memorialized on 20 June 2019 at the Grand Palais with "Karl For Ever", a celebration of the designer's life, which featured a career retrospective highlighting his tenures at Chloé, Fendi, and Chanel, along with his work for his eponymous Karl Lagerfeld brand.[5][6] The 90-minute tribute was attended by 2,500 guests. Nearly 60 gigantic portraits were on view within the pavilion, which has hosted many Chanel runway collections.[7] The ceremony also included readings and musical performances by Tilda Swinton, Cara Delevingne, Helen Mirren, Pharrell Williams, and Lang Lang. The production was staged by theater and opera director Robert Carsen.[8] In February 2020 Eden Gallery honored Lagerfeld with an exhibition in which explored sculptures and paintings inspired by his work.[9] The White Shirt ProjecteditIn July 2019 the house of Karl Lagerfeld announced the development of "The White Shirt Project".[10] In homage to its eponymous founder, the project celebrated the late designer's legacy with a collection of reimagined, iconic white shirts.[11][12] Lagerfeld once said: "If you ask me what I'd most like to have invented in fashion, I'd say the white shirt. For me, the white shirt is the basis of everything. Everything else comes after."[13][14][15] The global project was curated by Karl Lagerfeld's then Style Advisor Carine Roitfeld and featured designs from Cara Delevingne, Kate Moss, Tommy Hilfiger, Diane Kruger, Takashi Murakami, Amber Valletta, and British street artist Endless, amongst others.[13][16][17] A White Shirt tribute event at Paris Fashion Week featured Anna Wintour, Kaia Gerber, and Karlie Kloss.[18] Seven was Lagerfeld's favorite number, and as such, seven of the final designs were replicated 77 times and sold for €777 each, with proceeds benefiting a French charity affiliated with Paris Descartes University.[12][19][20] Metropolitan Museum of Art 2023 Costume Institute Exhibition and Met GalaeditThe Metropolitan Museum of Art honored the designer with a retrospective of his work with Balmain, Patou, Chloe, Fendi, Chanel, and his eponymous line. The posthumous exhibition, Karl Lagerfeld: A Line of Beauty spanned Lagerfeld's six-decade career and included more than 150 objects.[21] Chanel, Fendi, Condé Nast, and Lagerfeld’s own fashion brand provided support for the exhibition and the accompanying 2023 Met Gala.[22] The 2023 fête was co-chaired by Michaela Coel, Penélope Cruz, Roger Federer, Dua Lipa, and Condé Nast Global Chief Content Officer, Anna Wintour.[23][24] Pritzker Prize-winning architect Tadao Ando designed the exhibit.[25] Curator Andrew Bolton expounded on the exhibition's inspiration in the April 2023 issue of Architectural Digest. Bolton explained that the tribute would focus largely on Lagerfeld's design process, specifically his sketches, and would showcase both the literal lines of Lagerfeld's drawings as well as the sartorial lines or silhouettes of his works.[26] References
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I made several other changes to the copy and sourcing as well. I noticed that the last sentence of the second paragraph features seven citations. That seems a little excessive! I trimmed down to one, since the Cut article seems to support all of the key claims. I also cleaned up dates and tenses (since some of the events described as upcoming have already happened) and added a few additional details about guests and sponsors.
I think these edits represent a substantial improvement, but please let me know. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 11:01, 26 July 2024 (UTC)
Further Other media updates
editThe user below has a request that an edit be made to Karl Lagerfeld. That user has an actual or apparent conflict of interest. The requested edits backlog is moderate. Please be patient. There are currently 138 requests waiting for review. Please read the instructions for the parameters used by this template for accepting and declining them, and review the request below and make the edit if it is well sourced, neutral, and follows other Wikipedia guidelines and policies. |
I'm back with some suggestions for the end of the Other media section. I put together the following revised draft of the last few paragraphs:
Updated draft of final paragraphs in Other media section
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Late in life, Lagerfeld realized one of his boyhood ambitions by becoming a professional caricaturist–from 2013, his political cartoons were regularly published in the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.[1][2] In 2013, he directed the short film Once Upon a Time... in the Cité du Cinéma, Saint-Denis, by Luc Besson, featuring Keira Knightley in the role of Coco Chanel and Clotilde Hesme as her aunt Adrienne Chanel.[3] In 2014, Palm Beach Modern Auctions announced that many of Lagerfeld's early sketches for the House of Tiziani in Rome would be sold.[4][5] In June 2016, it was announced that Lagerfeld would design the two residential lobbies of the Estates at Acqualina, a residential development in Miami's Sunny Isles Beach.[6] That same year he also designed lobbies for a Toronto condominium tower.[7] In 2017, Lagerfeld designed two suites at the Hôtel de Crillon in Paris.[8] In 2023, Lagerfeld's final hospitality project, The Karl Lagerfeld Hotel, opened in Macao. [9] The 270-room hotel was entirely designed by Lagerfeld, and according to WWD features a blend of "classic Chinese designs with contemporary Western aesthetics."[10] In 2016, Lagerfeld designed the costumes for the Brahms–Schoenberg Quartet ballet at the Opéra Bastille in Paris.[11] In October 2018, Lagerfeld in collaboration with Carpenters Workshop Gallery launched an art collection of functional sculptures titled Architectures. Sculptures were made of Arabescato Fantastico, a rare vibrant white marble with dark gray veins and black Nero Marquina marble with milky veins. Inspired by antiquity and referred to as modern mythology the ensemble consists of gueridons, tables, lamps, consoles, fountains and mirrors.[12] References
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As you can see, I added new details about architectural & costume design projects Karl was involved with near the end of his life. I also weaved in a claim about the House of Tiziani that was in the Fashion section.
As I've stated previously, I work with the KARL LAGERFELD brand and thus won't be making these edits myself. I am hopeful that editors can review these requests and make the updates if they seem like improvements to the article. MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 14:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I can take a look at this. They look pretty good at first glance, with maybe a few POV tweaks. --FeldBum (talk) 21:23, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for your feedback and taking the time to review my request, User:FeldBum. Looking forward to hear from you soon. Thank you! MB for KARL LAGERFELD (talk) 07:48, 14 August 2024 (UTC)