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This is an automated notice by [[User:FairuseBot|FairuseBot]]. For assistance on the image use policy, see [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]]. --22:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
This is an automated notice by [[User:FairuseBot|FairuseBot]]. For assistance on the image use policy, see [[Wikipedia:Media copyright questions]]. --22:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

== Wilson protest ==

The article states that "American President Woodrow Wilson protested British concessions in a cable to the British Cabinet". The only reference for this cable that I could find (except for other Wikipedia articles that use it) was from a political pamphlet [http://www.acpr.org.il/ENGLISH-NATIV/issue1/Abelson-1.htm] by one Meir Abelson, who is not a historian of any standing. Furthermore, he does not provide a source for his quote, which makes it impossible to confirm it and consider its context (which is particularly important given the distinct political slant of his writing). I have been unable to find this quote in the 69 volumes of Arthur S. Link, ''The Papers of Woodrow Wilson''. Unless a more reliable source is provided, I would like to remove this quote. Copies of this message are posted in other Wikipedia articles where this cable is quoted with the hope of finding more information about it.--[[Special:Contributions/128.139.104.49|128.139.104.49]] ([[User talk:128.139.104.49|talk]]) 13:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 13:22, 17 February 2009

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Ilan Pappe

I've noticed that you've quoted Ilan Pappe quite a number of times as a source for your article. I'm just wondering if that is considered okay according to Wikipedia, because he is considered a controversial historian and his views are considered to be by many as POV. To quote from his wikipedia page "He is one of the "New Historians" who have re-examined and hold controversial views of the history of Israel and of Zionism." Leppi 08:56, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Almost EVERYBODY cited as a reference in this artice is an Israeli. With conflicts involving at least 4 countries, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan, how credible is an article that uses as sources just ONE group's opinions? Surely, there is built in POV there without more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.109.114.161 (talk) 06:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Border with Jordan

A recent edit states that "The border segment from Ein Gedi to Beit She'an was not marked, because Jordan said that the Palestinian Authority should be a partner for setting this border." - This is unsourced, and appears to contradict the sourced statement in the next sentence, which says "Upon the official signing of the Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace, the Jordan and Yarmouk Rivers, the Dead Sea, the Emek Ha'arva/Wadi Araba and the Gulf of Aqaba were officially designated as the borders between Israel and Jordan. " I am therefor removing the unsourced addition. Canadian Monkey (talk) 14:52, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The source is the linked treaty: Annex I(a), section 2A, paragraph 7. I'll see if I can find the map as well (which has been deleted on the JVL site). MeteorMaker (talk) 19:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I understand the point you're trying to make, but the way you've worded it is incorrect (Beit Shean is more than 10 Km north of the end of that segement, and 5Km to the west) as well as confusing. I'll take a stab, using the language from the treaty itself. Canadian Monkey (talk) 23:18, 24 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That works. The En Gedi part has clear support in this more complete version of the document[1] though. The border is left undefined north of 31 29 35 N, and the nearest populated place on the map is in fact En Gedi. I have not been able to track down the actual treaty maps yet (that was harder than I had imagined) but as soon as I find the documentation, I put back Beit She'an as the northern extreme of the undefined prt of the border. MeteorMaker (talk) 06:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The planned Eretz Israel

There is another Israel which isn't been mentioned in this article, despite it's immense (and very threatening) importance in the eyes of 100s of millions of people. It's the Zionist dream of "From the Nile to the Euphrates". It's not paranoia by Arafat, it's central to the project. (Actually, it predates Zionism by over 2000 years, God promises Abraham in Genesis 15:18 "To your descendants I give this land from the River of Egypt to the Great River, the river Euphrates.". Moses promises his descendants in Deuteronomy 11:24 that "every place where you set the soles of your feet shall be yours. Your borders shall run from the wilderness to the Lebanon and from the River, the river Euphrates, to the western sea.")

From the Nile to the Euphrates was there right at the beginning of Zionism - in 1898, Theodore Herzl planned to ask the Ottoman sultan for a territory stretching from the Egyptian frontier to the Euphrates.[1] He and Isidore Bodenheimer regularily spoke of Jewish settlement in "Palestine and Syria". So did the Jewish National Fund and the Zionist Congress. In 1902, Herzl spoke of settling Jews in Mesopotamia.

Jabotinsky is quoted in 1935 saying "We want a Jewish Empire".[2] The Stern Gang's 18 principles in 1940 included "from the brook of Egypt to the great river, the river Euphrates" David Ben-Gurion in 1954 "the border of Israel will be where the army takes it", Moshe Dayan spoke of expansion to Babylon and the Euphrates as he stood on the Golan Heights for the first time in 1967.[3][4]

Menachem Begin reminded Israelis that the Bible says the Israeli state will include portions of Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Sudan, Lebanon, Jordan and Kuwait.[5]

And some Western sources were open about the same thing - British Ambassador to Istanbul "the domination of Egypt, the land of the Pharaohs, who forced the Jews to build Pyramids, is part of the future heritage of Israel."[6]

  1. ^ Theodor Herzl, Zionistisches Tagebücher, 1895-1899, edited by Johannes Wachten, Chaya Harel, et al. (Berlin: Ullstein, 1983), vol. 2, p. 650. For a catalogue of Zionist and Israeli statements, real and alleged, see Ass'ad Razzouq, Greater Israel: A Study in Zionist Expansionist Thought (Beirut: Palestine Liberation Organization Research Center, 1970), especially pp. 83, 87-90, 92, 96-97, 99-103, 144-45, 167-69, 178-81, 187, 209, 212-14, 230, 234, 240, 243-45, 249-52, 264, 278-82, 286.
  2. ^ Robert Gessner, "Brown Shirts in Zion," New Masses, Feb. 19, 1935, p. 11.
  3. ^ Damascus Television, Feb. 18, 1986.
  4. ^ Sa`d al-Bazzaz, Gulf War: The Israeli Connection, transl. Namir Abbas Mudhaffer (Baghdad: Dar al-Ma'mun, 1989).
  5. ^ Tyler Courier-Times-Telegraph, 5 Feb. 1983; reported in The Los Angeles Times, Feb. 6, 1983.
  6. ^ Secret letter from Gerard Lowther to Charles Hardinge, 29 May 1910, Foreign Office 800/193A (Lowther Papers). Quoted in Elie Kedourie, Arabic Political Memoirs and Other Studies (London: Frank Cass, 1974), p. 256.

All the above, including the references, comes from the very pro-Israel blogger and self-publisher (?) Daniel Pipes, along with a number of maps. I don't know whether we'd accept what he claims, that it's all there in the RS too. PRtalk 18:04, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a change you'd like to propiose to the article, or is this yet another one of your endless soapboxes? Canadian Monkey (talk) 18:17, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The image Image:Shebaafarms.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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The following images also have this problem:

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --22:39, 30 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wilson protest

The article states that "American President Woodrow Wilson protested British concessions in a cable to the British Cabinet". The only reference for this cable that I could find (except for other Wikipedia articles that use it) was from a political pamphlet [2] by one Meir Abelson, who is not a historian of any standing. Furthermore, he does not provide a source for his quote, which makes it impossible to confirm it and consider its context (which is particularly important given the distinct political slant of his writing). I have been unable to find this quote in the 69 volumes of Arthur S. Link, The Papers of Woodrow Wilson. Unless a more reliable source is provided, I would like to remove this quote. Copies of this message are posted in other Wikipedia articles where this cable is quoted with the hope of finding more information about it.--128.139.104.49 (talk) 13:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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