Talk:Days of Our Lives

re: 80stvthemes.com

I visited the site and could not find the theme to "The Cruise of Deception" so I took off the reference and link to it.

Gordon

Re: The Cruise of Deception There are some oddities in the summary of it. The Cruise of Deception happened over the summer of 1990 (though perhaps it could be said to have begun earlier with the introduction of the Toscanos.) That said, the way the summary is written it cuts abruptly from the "Cruise of Deception" story to the Princess Gina story (citing the unpopularity of the Princess Gina story. These two stories have no connection and are separated by a decade of time as the Hope returns as Princess Gina story happened in the 2000s (and claimed that Hope had been kidnapped by the DiMeras) and the Cruise of Deception had Hope "killed" by Ernesto Toscano (and the Cruise of Deception is actually a very fondly remembered story in Days history and it had good ratings when it was playing. The Princess Gina story should be shifted into the 2000s and/or the James Reilly era and not listed as part of the Cruise of Deception.

ohmigod. miscellania. but then again that's the beauty of it all eh?

My wife points out that Deidre Hall has a real twin sister (Andrea Hall) who played Marlena's evil twin and Hattie Adams.

Yeah, that's true. I don't know when this was posted, but I'm sure it was before someone added her name. She goes by Andrea Hall Gengler now, so I've edited it to say that much. Mike H 15:42, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

style on the "our"

FYI, the correct style for the title of DOOL is lower case on the "of" and the "our", that is "Days of our Lives". I noticed that the Wikipedia entry has a cap O on our.

It's not "correct style", rather, how the show chooses to accentuate the fact that it's our LIVES and not OUR LIVES. Grammatically, however, Days of Our Lives would be correct and is used this way in many publications. Mike H 07:39, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)

How does the show spell it's name in it's publicity? If it is with a lower case 'o' then, irrespective of grammar or tv guides, we show use the show's own spelling [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 16:50, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's already been referenced lots of places with this title. If you're willing to change every instance, then you go ahead and move it. Mike H 20:10, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

But the title they use is "Days of our Lives", right? [[User:Dmn|Dmn / Դմն ]] 18:36, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It varies. I've noticed that the lower case o was not used when using the name in an article on the show...I think it's more of a semantics question than anything else. For example, in the beginning, the show did not make a differentiation in capitalization on the title card: from 1965 to 1972, it simply said "DAYS OF OUR LIVES". [1] So, again, as I said, if you want the page moved, go ahead and move it, but be prepared to correct all the links.

I'm also not sure what you mean by 'they'. Do you mean the show? Then we should change As the World Turns to AS THE WORLD TURNS, then, because the title card overrules all other usage. Mike H 20:59, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

I apologize for being combative earlier. I've found that the O is capitalized in the book All My Afternoons, written by Annie Gilbert, as well as in Soap Opera Digest (before the magazine went to ALL CAPITALS for the shows' names) and in the Days of Our Lives Family Album, written by Lorraine Zenka but published with help by both the Corday estate and NBC. Mike H 22:06, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)

Days of Our Lives → Days of our Lives

About two years ago, Days of our Lives was redirected to Days of Our Lives. Many people have brought up that since the title card shows a lower case letter on the "our", that it should be named as such in the article. After at first arguing about it and giving evidence otherwise, I feel that the issue is just too trivial to fight. I think the article should be moved because there seems to be quite enough consensus on the talk page for it to be moved. I tried moving it myself but couldn't. Mike H 20:06, Jan 16, 2005 (UTC)

• Oppose: It's perfectly okay where it is. There are scores of internal links, too, and none are through a redirect except on this page, at User talk:Zoe and at Talk:Days of Our Lives. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 16:08, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Support. "our" is the case on the official NBC site. Internal links irrelevant (unless more than 500, so they can't be displayed). I'm more than willing to help update the links. Niteowlneils 17:58, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PS "Everything" links there because I recently updated all (well, most, anyway) soap opera links to avoid redir messages--check my contribs. Niteowlneils 18:03, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

• • Update the links? What's wrong with simply keeping them, and using the redirect like it's meant to be used? --SPUI 00:57, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
• Support. If there's consensus on the talk page then let it be done - the only reason it can't be automatically moved is technical so let's not stand in the way of that. Timrollpickering 15:28, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

When all else fails, wouldn't it be best to go by what the network does? The network specifically made the request of sites like soapcentral.com and tvtome.com (turned tv.com) to refer to the show as Days of our Lives because that is the title they have always used. It is a minor thing, but it's like Law & Order v. Law and Order. The second is grammatically correct, but the first is the actual title. D'Amico 20:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

POV dilemma

I think it should be noted that DAYS is pretty much de facto one of the soaps with the weirdest plot elements, but it should be mentioned in a fairly NPOV manner that the show pretty much went from traditional story to "weird" in the 1980s with Stefano DiMera and his schemes, and Calliope and her wacky polka-dot clothes and the dog wedding. Mike H 06:42, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Sentence

In 2004, the New Salem volcano erupted. There were no casualties though. :)

I'm moving this here until someone can build on it and make it...encyclopedic, though. :) Mike H 18:34, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

John and Marlena as a supercouple in the '80s

I reverted the recent edits for one simple reason: John Black was not a character on the show until the 1990s. Roman and Marlena would be a supercouple, but only if it's prefaced with an acknowledgement that Wayne Northrop also played the role. Plus, Marlena "died" in 1987, and then Roman was put in a coupling with Diana. Mike H 08:46, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

TV-14 SUCKS, guys!

If it's shown on PBS, it'll get TV-Y7. -- 24.159.186.88

It'll only get a TV-Y7 rating if 99% of the stuff is cut out. Mike H 01:36, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

You mean it'll only get a TV-Y if 99% of the stuff is cut out. Usually shows that are normally rated TV-14 or TV-MA get TV-Y7 the moment they premiere on PBS. -- 24.159.186.88

I don't even know why we're having this discussion. Why would it be on PBS anyway? Are you that same kid who had a lot of his stuff placed on VFD because they were made-up TV shows? Mike H 20:40, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

And why are you accusing me? -- Ryan F

Also, FYI, what the (censored) does VFD stand for? -- 24.159.186.88

Cross or "Deceased"

There has been a slight revert skirmish with the crucifix and deceased. I edited away this crucifix, and it was reverted before there was a de-re-vert-ish-li-ness-ness. Try and work that out!

Seriously, though, I do understand why it was used, and wish to outline my case for replacing it with the word "deceased". In German, use of a cross is standard style, and I believe this to be the case with the German wikipedia. It is, however, frankly unprecedented in English in my view. Not only have I never seen it, it is religiously partisan. Should Dalai Lamas and Saudi Kings have the crucifix for deceased? It is by definition POV: it is religiously partisan. Whilst I do not try and have it ground out of the German wikipedia, the case is different here. Let's keep religion out of everything here.

Thanks, sorry for the sort of cheeky unilateral edit. Zhengfu

Split?

There's a lot of new material which covers stories from the 80's and 90's. Do you think we should split this up into separate categories? It seems to have worked for the As the World Turns page. --JamesB3 12:18, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

It also needs to be cleaned up, what with a POV check and the removal of those silly "enter" and "exit" headings. Mike H (Talking is hot) 21:25, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

I can go through and try to edit some of this. I don't know if the soaps section needs another POV or another Peer Review that no one participates in. --JamesB3 02:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

OK, I made a lot of changes. It's still not perfect, but I think it's okay now. Tell me what you think. --JamesB3 06:38, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Eugene Bradford

Would some please add information on John de Lancie's character Eugene Bradford? My babysitter watched this show when I was growing up, and his time travel escapades are the only thing that grabbed my attention. Did Calliope go with him? Didn't they show up from time to time for years after? --Chris Griswold 09:32, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

list

Maybe someone has an idea as to what to do with this: List of Days Of Our Lives Characters. --Fang Aili ^talk 20:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Coming and Going Castmembers

Somebody keeps removing Missy Reeves from Current Castmembers in favor of her being in Coming and Going castmembers 'cause she's leaving in September.

She's both. She's currently under contract with the show and is currently seen on the show in a contract capacity, ergo she's still a contract player. She doesn't stop being one just because she soon won't be.

And why is Jensen Ackles included as a coming and going cast member? He's neither coming or going, he's on some WB show now.

Please do not remove Annie Burgstede from the goings section. The most recent edition of SOW/SOD has stated that she will be leaving by the end of summer. Greggyorshuk 20:50, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

ALSO, Joseph Mascolo is under contract per The May 8th issue of SOD. It is not a temp return. 131.156.240.89 01:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Spelling and Grammar

Both are poor in this article. Irrelevant words are thrown in at certain places. Sentences abruptly end without punctuation. I think this article needs both major reconstructive editing and a code comment at the top to warn people of what they may get themselves into.

Revised the ratings section that needed cleanup

I revised the ratings section. I took out a lot of the information that I think cluttered up the article and made it confusing. Most of it were the specifics on time-slots and so on. I don't really think it is necessary to know in order to understand the ratings game between Days and other soaps. Anyways, I took the cleanup tag off of it but I haven't checked the cleanup list to see if its on there. --Shiaobundan 04:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Kurt McKinney

The star of the 1980s movie No Retreat, No Surrender is currently in this show. The IMDB do not loist him as being in iot but he is. He plays the character who just got married, but the lady he married ex-husband has just turned up after faking his death (as you may be able to tell, I do not watch this show, the first time I saw it was yesterday and I reconised the actor), could any fans of this show please tell me the name of the Character Kurt is playing? Thank you. 74.65.39.59 17:09, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

With the description you've given, you're thinking of the Frankie Brady character, who is played by Billy Warlock, not Kurt McKinney. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 02:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Intresting. I just saw the show and though it was McKinney (being a big fan of the No Retreat .. movie). They do look alike. 74.65.39.59 11:13, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

McKinney was actually on "General Hospital" as the first Ned the show Warlock was on inbetween DAYS stints. McKinney has made some appearances on "Guiding Light" in the past year.

Capitalisation in article title

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (capitalization) states "In general, titles of books, films, and other works are also capitalized, except for articles (a, and, the) and prepositions and conjunctions shorter than five letters (e.g., to, from, and)." I don't think it's wise to suppose that the show's producers believed not capitalising the word "our" in the title was absolutely necessary. It's just as likely that the show's production company's manual of style suggests against capitalisation of pronouns in titles, in which case that's "correct" for them; ours doesn't, which is thus "correct" for us. The one thing we know for certain is what standard Wikipedia style (and what is stipulated in most major manuals of style) is, which is why I think it's best and safest to use it. Extraordinary Machine 12:38, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's wise to suppose that the show's producers believed not capitalising the word "our" in the title was absolutely necessary. It's just as likely that the show's production company's manual of style suggests against capitalisation of pronouns in titles, in which case that's "correct" for them; ours doesn't, which is thus "correct" for us.

I don't think that's it at all, really. I think the reason why "our" is not capitalized is to place more emphasis on "Lives," and not "Our Lives." Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 01:42, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Ratings history?

Is there a reason we need a list of ratings from years' past on the page? Currently, the 1996-1997 Season ratings are on the page.

I think a well-written paragraph that mentioned high and low points would suffice, and perhaps the most recent ratings results (not from ten years ago). Twice I've deleted ratings lists that were more than a decade old and had no real context, but they have been added back in.

Can we make a decision on listing/not listing ratings results for all the soaps? I don't see why we need to show the data for all the soaps, but if the results are somehow notable (DOOL's best week ever, worst week ever, etc.), I think it makes sense to say how DOOL did. Doc502 21:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Lisa?

Who the heck is Lisa? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Blakebs (talk • contribs) 05:52, 4 December 2006 (UTC).

Lisa is a waitress at the Brady Pub, who has been there since its opening in 1992. She is an off-and-on character who isn't seen that often, and hasn't had a story of her own. At first I was skeptical about keeping her on the list, but I think I'd keep her. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 07:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

John Black, since 1986?

I've corrected this twice and it has been reverted twice by some anonymous IP. Drake Hogestyn has not played the character of John Black since 1986. It should be noted that for five years, he played Roman Brady, because it leads a casual reader to believe that the John Black character has been on since 1986, which is not true. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 03:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

TEK

In the comings and goings section "Tek Kramer" should be "TEK" as it stands for "Thomas Edward Kramer" It makes no sense to have "TEK Kramer"

While this is old I just have to say that he went by the name Tek so Tek Kramer is perfectly fine to have put Tek Kramer at the time. Jcar03 21:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Hawk

Hi, I'm not one of the regular Days of Our Lives editors, so could use some help. Actor Austin Miller, who evidently played the character "Hawk" in the 2001-2002 season, is now gaining some notoriety as a contestant on the "Grease: You're the One that I Want!" competition. I'd like to link to the DOOY articles, but I can't seem to find anywhere that he's mentioned. Is there a list anywhere, or was his part too small to warrant inclusion on Wikipedia? --Elonka 06:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Its a nice bit of trivia. He was only on for about 20 episodes over the course of year though. 131.156.240.89 04:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Joy Bisco on contract?

Not so much that I'm doubting it, but I can't seem to find any official or truly valid resources that list her as being on-contract with the show -- it's only on some non-official webpages, and seems to have fireballed from there. Does anyone know of an official or sanctioned resource that advises of her status? When she was cast, it was stated at the time to be recurring. D'Amico 06:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, soaps.com got in touch with Bisco's agent and she signed a six month contract with the show at this time. Jcar03 21:57, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Senior Cast Members

Okay, I happened to notice that Frances Reid is no longer listed as the Senior Cast Member in the info box and that she has been removed from the contract cast portion of the cast list. I know rumors are floating and they are probably true that Reid isn't in good health right now and probably won't be seen on the show again BUT she is still listed in the credits of the show and none of it has been confirmed by the show. It appears the show will have her remain "under contract" for the foreseeable future.

Joe Mascolo/Stefano

I have searched quite a few places and cannot find a reliable source stating that he is returning. Everything I've seen announcing his return is people posting on message boards that they heard from "an insider" or similar. The only half-way reliable information I found was an article (and I didn't bookmark it, darnit) that quoted him as saying that Days had not approached him about a return, and that he was considering returning to B&B as Masimo again. Anyone have any good source for his return announcement or should this be removed? KC0ZHQ 22:01, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

As yet, there has been no official confirmation on Mascolo's return. There were write-ups in the mags as recent as a couple of weeks back where he said he had not been contacted. There is also no official confirmation that I can find on Renee Jones either. There are rumors that Lexie will return, but it hasn't been stated that it will be Jones (or even that it's official). D'Amico 09:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Apparently Soap Opera Digest is announcing in the May 8th issue that he has indeed signed a contract and will be returning this summer. KC0ZHQ 15:35, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Anna DiMera

Has it been confirmed that Anna DiMera is returning. It is only a rumour at the moment. Maybe we sould start a rumoured returning section. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.25.255.214 (talk) 15:55, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

"Thaao Penghilis" (I only put it in quotes because I don't know how to confirm that it's really him) posted to the guestbook on his website confirming that she is returning. Nothing that I see confirms a date though. http://pub46.bravenet.com/guestbook/3882218587/

KC0ZHQ 22:43, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

John Clarke/Mickey Horton

Has it been confirmed that John Clarke is returning. I cannot find anything on him on the internet (not even rumours about a return). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.25.255.214 (talk) 13:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

I've been unable (as of yet) to find anything valid either. Clarke didn't leave because he was fired; he was retiring. It seems unlikely to me he would return, unless it was for a one-time super-special shot. D'Amico 16:05, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there has been nothing official. Clarke did say he was retiring though I think the whole thing was brought on because he did not care for the direction of the show.

He was in failing health in 2004, although I don't know if he is better now. Nothing has been announced. I am a big fan of citing web and print sources for the comings and goings section, and I think we should start doing that. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 04:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Judi Evans as Adrienne Kiriakis, Recurring or Contract?

When Evans returned to Days as Adrienne, she was always listed as recurring. Has she since been put on contract with the show and is that why she is listed as a current cast member? Recently on the soapcentral.com messgae board, it was said that Evans was put up on contract, but I still am not sure about the whole thing. Can someone shed some light on the subject? Thank you.

She is contract and that is confirmed by the credits that have run the last few weeks. Penghlis confirmed he is contract and Evans falls right before him since DAYS does it by the date they joined the show.

Is there a reliable source that backs this up?

Yes, the credits of the show. Evans comes in before Tanya Boyd who is recurring if Evans was recurring she would fall after Boyd since recurring is alphabetical order why contract is join or return date. Evans also comes before Donovan, Patrick, Penghlis and SOD has confirmed they are contract. 20:00, 19 June 2007 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.82.171.38 (talk • contribs)

CORRECTION: Evans is NOT contract. The credits of the show now put her after Penghlis and Mascolo (who both confirmed their contract status in SOD). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.82.171.38 (talk • contribs) (00:19, June 21, 2007) (UTC)

Futhermore confirmed by the fact that Evans has not appeared in the credits this week or last since she did not appear in an episode. On DAYS contract actors appear if they appear that week or not and recurring only appear if they are in that weeks shows. jcar03 23:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)jcar03

Sorry there jcar03, how many times have we not seen a recurring actor on that week and yet they appear in the credits?! For example, Tanya Boyd, John Aniston, Bill & Susan Hayes, etc? Can you answer that? I dont know what the deal is with Judi Evans. She is contract. That has all ready been confirmed. Thank you so very much!71.255.54.45 04:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Where was this confirmed???????????? She even said when she came back it was not on contract yet AND NONE of the soap magazines have said otherwise. Big point here I saw the credits today Judi Evans WAS NOT there is she was CONTRACT she would be there no matter what. I'm not going to remove her from anywhere cause I'm not playing the editing war game. John Aniston hasn't been in the contract recently. jcar03 22:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Let's stay peaceful now. I can recall reading that Ken Corday explained that she was contract, and many other people remember, thats why shes listed as CONTRACT here. Okay?71.255.54.45 19:13, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Article improvement

I was asked to take a look at this article, and see about helping to get it to the next level of quality (maybe even to Featured status, and on the Wikipedia mainpage!). Here's what I recommend:

• The article needs to be switched from a "list" format to "prose" format. Try to change it more of an article, rather than just a collection of factoids.
• Move anything that has to be a list, out to a separate "List" page
• Ensure that the article only uses information that has a clear and quoted source. Anything that isn't sourced, should be removed.
• For the "storyline" section, try to give a brief (maybe 1000 words) summary of what the storylines in the show are about. Not a detailed who-did-what-to-whom, but a more general overview. In other words, how is the storyline in Days, different from the storyline in General Hospital, or All My Children? Who are the major families, what are the most common sets?
• Be bold in making changes, and if you have questions, post them here at the talkpage, or on the talkpage at WP:SOAPS.

Hope that helps, Elonka 07:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Automated peer review

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.^[?]
• Consider removing links that add little to the article or that have been repeated in close proximity to other links to the same article, as per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links) and WP:CONTEXT.^[?]
• Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), there should be a non-breaking space -   between a number and the unit of measurement. For example, instead of 3000 miles, use 3000 miles, which when you are editing the page, should look like: 3000 miles.^[?]
• As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), please do not link words in headings.^[?]
• Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings), headings generally should not repeat the title of the article. For example, if the article was Ferdinand Magellan, instead of using the heading ==Magellan's journey==, use ==Journey==.^[?]
• Generally, trivia sections are looked down upon; please either remove the trivia section or incorporate any important facts into the rest of the article.^[?]
• There are a few occurrences of weasel words in this article- please observe WP:AWT. Certain phrases should specify exactly who supports, considers, believes, etc., such a view.
  • it has been
  • might be weasel words, and should be provided with proper citations (if they already do, or are not weasel terms, please strike this comment).^[?]
• Avoid using contractions like (outside of quotations): doesn't, doesn't, isn't, isn't, doesn't, wasn't.
• You may wish to convert your form of references to the cite.php footnote system that WP:WIAFA 1(c) highly recommends.
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Elonka 07:20, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Female Characters & their Maiden/Married Last Names

Lately there has been a lot of switching around among Sami Roberts' pages. Originally Sami Brady, she was redirected to Sami Roberts, Samantha Brady Roberts, etc. Why can't we just have her remain at "Sami Brady" like all the other female charcters on Days? Hope goes by "Hope Brady," although she is on the page "Hope Williams," Kayla goes by "Dr. Kayla Johnson" when she is on the page "Kayla Brady," then the same issues with Adrienne Kiriakis, Jennifer Deveraux, and Julie Williams. They all are on pages with their maiden names, so why should Sami be different? Let's keep her at "Brady."

Days Page New Look

Who came up with this new page idea? I wish we would return to its old format! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.123.180 (talk • contribs) 18:51, June 9, 2007 (UTC)

Information is not being removed so much as moved to other locations. We are trying to upgrade the quality of the page, to see about getting it to Good or featured article status (and maybe even on the Wikipedia mainpage!). The old version of the page did not comply with Wikipedia's Manual of Style. Discussion about the new format is of course encouraged though. Can you please be more specific about what you like or dislike? --Elonka 20:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Elonka has summed it up rather perfectly. If you're looking for the "trivia" and "other media" sections, though, those are out for good because Wikipedia articles are not supposed to have those, which is why the big "TRIVIA" notice was on the top of the page for about a month. Someone added back "Close Encounters of the Third Kind," and if someone doesn't give me a reason on the talk page why it should stay with the likes of "Friends," who mentioned the show for 10 years straight, I'll remove it tomorrow. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 20:41, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

The main part of my question became ignited when I saw that there were no listings of the families in Salem, as there was on the original format. The new format seems confusing. There is too much information at the beginning! I am also upset that the Cast members are on a different page now, with a new part of prior charcters/actors. It should be put back to normanl, with a less confusing format! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.123.180 (talk • contribs) 23:58, June 9, 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for participating in the discussion, we're glad to have you.  :) The opening in the old article was actually much too short by Wikipedia standards. According to WP:LEAD, a good opening is supposed to have a summary of the entire article, within a few paragraphs. We're definitely still working on it though. As for the list of families, I thought that was just moved out to a "List" article. Mike, do you know what happened to it? In any case, 71.246.12.180, don't worry, the article's going to be in a bit of flux for a few days, but it should turn out even better in the long run.  :) --Elonka 00:08, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

If you go back to a previous version, you can find the lead with the list of families. Right now, I don't see where we can put that without it being too much information, or redundant. As for the cast list, Guiding Light does not list its cast list in the main article either, and I think it's beneficial to split it off and write prose; after all, that is what Wikipedia looks for in good and featured articles. If you have any more suggestions, please, don't hesitate. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 00:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps we could make a List of Days of our Lives families? --Elonka 03:54, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe that list of Days families can hold a family tree or a listing of its members. That's a good idea, Elonka. By the way, can we also settle the dispute of Chelsea Benson/Brady's real last name. Lately she's been referred to as "Chelsea Brady," so I guess that is her real last name. Also, why is Sami being switched around among pages (view my section above with female characters last names). Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.123.180 (talk • contribs) 04:05, June 10, 2007 (UTC)

I need an actual citation or transcript where it says "Chelsea Brady." So it's verifiable. With Sami Brady, that's staying where it is. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 05:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

I know that you Halterman and you Elonka promise that the Days page will get better, but I'm sorry, I still miss the old one. I don't think I'm goning to like the new format. It's just how I feel. My other favorite soap and wiki page is The Young and the Restless. I like that look, so let's make it look like that one! It's organized in a complete and proper manner, so everyone should check it out to see if you agree with me! Thanks. User:71.246.123.180

Sorry 71.246.123.180, but I have to disagree. I think the new page is 1000% better, and is much more in accordance with the Wikipedia:Manual of Style and Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas guidelines. It's my hope that with a few more tweaks, the page can get to what's called "Featured" status, and actually be eligible to show up on Wikipedia's mainpage. :) BTW, when you sign posts, use four tildes: ~~~~ That will automatically sign and datestamp whatever you write.  :) --Elonka 04:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry, but I must say that I much prefered the old look. It was simple and to the point and you didn't need to go to so many different pages for info on days. I think we should change it back very soon. Just look at all the other soap pages, they all list the cast members on that same page and the first paragraphs are not nearly as long and confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.13.191 (talk • contribs) 11:41, June 11, 2007 (UTC)

Can you be more specific about what info you are having trouble finding? If you want cast info, just go to List of Days of our Lives cast members, which has all the same information. As for the other soaps pages, many of them are in the process of being changed as well. You're welcome to join the effort if you think the information can be better organized. Feel free to create a username, and join the participants list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas.  :) --Elonka 15:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, this is getting crazy. Why does this page have to be different when mostly other soaps have everything on ONE page? Its too complicated. I dont feel like jumping from one page to another. It looks like Y&R and ATWT are the only pages that are under control and simple, so Days should be the same. I'm tired of this so lets come to an agreement quickly!- 71.246.123.180.

Our plan at Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas is to try and update all major soap opera articles, but we obviously can't do all of them at once. Currently the most work has been done on Days, GH, and I think work has started on Y&R. If you'd like to bring ATWT into line with the Manual of Style format, that would be most appreciated!  :) For more info, see Wikipedia:Summary style --Elonka 22:17, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

I understand that you are only trying to make the page better but, could currect cast members, recurring cast members, comings and goings and deceased cast members please by re-added to this article. It is so stupid and I hate having to go to so many different articles. All my freinds also agree. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.105.48 (talk • contribs) 11:13, June 13, 2007 (UTC)

As stated before, we are editing to make the article correspond to the Wikipedia Manual of Style, and also to get the article featured, which means it will embody some of the best work found on Wikipedia. One thing I have not noticed is any special reasoning why the cast list HAS to be on this article. If there really isn't anything substantial other than "we just like it that way," I'm inclined to keep it split off into the daughter article, like the style manual suggests. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 05:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I am in agreement with Mike that we're trying to improve the article per Wikipedia's style guidelines. I am trying to keep an open mind though, as to why some people want the cast list back on the main page. Can you please try to better articulate why this is important to you? There may be some compromise we could find, if we could better understand what the problem is. For example, we might be able to do something creative with an infobox or navigational template, as is done at the bottom of the General Hospital articles. Would that help address people's concerns? Elonka 17:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Why does Elonka and Mike Halterman the only ones who make the decision? Why can't anyone else have a say in this whole thing? Can the two of you answer this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.123.180 (talk • contribs) 22:52, June 15, 2007 (UTC)

It's not just us, it's a consensus decision of any editors who care to participate on the talkpage. Mike and I are just two of the more active editors here, and we're also active at Wikipedia:WikiProject Soap Operas. Our voices also have a tiny bit more weight, since we're established editors who have experience working on many different Wikipedia articles. Whereas voices with the least weight, tend to be anonymous editors who have no history of working on more than one article. To give yourself a stronger voice, I would recommend (1) sign up for an account so you have a consistent name; (2) sign your posts with ~~~~ which will automatically timestamp what you say; and (3) show that you're interested in more than just the Days of our Lives article by working on other stuff around Wikipedia. But even without that, you can still have a say in things, by simply presenting your thoughts in a civil and reasoned way. In other words, not just "I don't like it", but give actual reasons why your method is better. We really are listening.  :) --Elonka 23:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm? I always gave a reason why I disliked the new Days page, so please don't put words in my mouth and say I did not. Thank you, so very much. Anyway, when so many people are disagreeing with the new format, do'nt you think it should be changed. I still do not think that Elonka and Mike are on "our" side. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.123.180 (talk • contribs) 04:43, June 16, 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm still not understanding why you dislike the changes, other than that you want to keep all the information on one page. However, there is a limit to how long that Wikipedia articles can be, so if we want to expand it, it is necessary to branch out to subpages, per Wikipedia:Summary style. In any case, if you strongly disagree with the changes, you are welcome to follow one of the steps at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. --Elonka 20:19, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I think that the Days page was fine how it used to be and at least the cast members were on the same page. Who cares if it is not a featured article and placed on the front page. Did you ever consider that not everybody that reads wikipedia wants to view the Days page. I think we should change it back to the way it used to look or at least re-add the cast lists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.241.80.51 (talk • contribs) 09:30, June 17, 2007 (UTC)

How dare Mike and Elonka just come in and take over this page. It works perfectly well the way it was before. Who gives a fuck if it is a featured article or not. Could the cast members please be added to this article. And why don't you stop asking everybody what the problem is. Are you blind or something can't you read what they write? And by the way the new page is so god dam confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grant Chuggle (talk • contribs) 09:37, June 17, 2007 (UTC)

Please stay civil, as angry comments aren't going to help us find a compromise.  :/ How about this though? I have created a template, which we can add to the bottom of every Days of our Lives page. It will allow for a quick way to click to any Days character. I've started a version here, and we just need to fill in the rest of the characters, and then we can add this to all the Days pages. Feel free to expand: Template:Days of our Lives. --Elonka 19:01, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Elonka, I think that Victor Kiriakis, Celeste Perrault, Will Roberts, Ciara Brady, Anna Fredericks, Bart Beiderbecke, Dr. Wilhelm Rolf, and Theo Carver should be on that Days Template you created. Even though they are recurring, they are all still very important to the show! Doug & Julie Williams are recurring and you have them on there, so the other recurring characters should be too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.246.123.180 (talk • contribs) 18:56, June 20, 2007 (UTC)

Fine by me, and I'm very glad that we're finding a compromise!  :) Are you comfortable enough with the template technology to add them yourself? Or would you rather that I did it? If you can handle tables, you should be able to handle a template. Just go to Template:Days of our Lives and edit it like a normal page.  :) --Elonka 00:39, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Fine, I'll try! Thanks for getting it started!71.246.123.180 03:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, here's what I added, I included each of the recurring characters (from above!), and Supercouple in Related Info. Do you think I can add SoapNet in Related Info?71.246.123.180 03:43, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Looks really good, thank you! As for SoapNet, I'd say no, we should stick with just links that are entirely (or mostly) Days-related. What do you think of the idea of alphabetizing the list though, like by last name? --Elonka 03:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

That's what I was thinking! Can you do that? I don't have the patience. Also, can we add a list of supercouples instead of having Supercouple at the Related Info? It would look really nice! Is it possible to change the color on it from orange to blue or purple?71.246.123.180 04:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Before Elonka, or anyone alphabetizing the character list at the bottom of the page, the first name should be Alice Horton, followed by Maggie Horton, then Dr. Marlena Evans as they are the three characters who have been on the show the longest. After their names are shown, then the alphabetizing of the list should begin by last name. Thank you. I put Alice, Maggie and Marlena in the beginning, for my reasons here.71.246.123.180 19:32, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Comment: Just butting in here regarding a comment I read on this page that "established editors carry more weight". I couldn't help but comment about seeing this, as that is not true at all. Anyone can edit an article and be bold in editing, as long as they follow policies. No one owns an article, I don't care if one has been editing for 10 years. New blood is actually good, may provide very good ideas and become an excellent contributor. Remember do not bite the newcomers, even if it's just a teeny tiny nibble.  :) - Jeeny ^Talk 03:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

unclear part of article

"Since the 1990s, with the introduction of writer James E. Reilly, Days of our Lives has moved from traditional plots to supernatural and science-fiction-themed stories, in conjunction with the rivalry of good vs. evil (Bradys vs. DiMeras). [14] Under the tenure of Reilly, ratings, which were in trouble in the late 1980s and early 1990s, quickly rebounded to second place."

it should probably be clarified as to what second place refers to. Second place of daytime ratings? What constitutes the daytime genre? Enigmaman 22:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, yes, second place in the soap ratings. "Daytime" is a more broad term, and also includes The Price is Right, which is traditionally always #1 and would push all the soaps down one notch. I will clear it up. Thanks! Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 00:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

just a reminder. You did what's hot when? Enigmaman 22:09, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

I said "That's hot" before she did. ;) Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 07:49, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Dead link

The Brady/DiMera feud link is dead. Just so you know. 76.5.154.109 16:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I've removed it. Don't be shy about editing the article. :) - Jeeny ^Talk 17:07, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

That's so weird. I visited that site last week and really liked it. Now its gone! Why!!!!!!! :sobs: :cries: Grr!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.255.54.45 (talk • contribs)

Sorry. :( I would have liked to have seen it myself. - Jeeny ^Talk 04:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Before They Were Stars & Notable Guest Stars

I thought that it would be an interesting idea to have a chart for "Before They Were Stars" for actors who hit it big after appearing on Days of our Lives. Some actors may include, Charles Shaughnessy (Shane Donovan), Amy Yasbeck (Olivia Reed), etc. Also with Guest Stars such as The Rolling Stones, Smokey Robinson, and some more, it is necessary to include a list of names of these stars. Thank you.71.246.127.190 07:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Is there not one on the cast member list? If there isn't, I fully support starting one. If you want help, I can do so. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 18:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

There is no cast list like the the Before they were stars and guest stars. This is a great idea and it should be added to the page as quickly as possible!71.125.212.188 03:00, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I am busy formulating a Wikimania bid, but I can help with suggestions. Shannon Tweed played Savannah Wilder, Marilyn McCoo (who was already famous) played Tamara Price, Mary Frann played Amanda Howard, and right now that's all I can think of on that end. Clay Aiken, LeAnn Rimes and Al Jarreau all played themselves. Ruth Buzzi played Eugene Bradford's crazy cousin Letitia. Melinda O. Fee, who had a career in TV long before Days, played the last Mary Anderson. Likewise, Charles Cioffi had a career in films before playing Ernesto Toscano. Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 07:27, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Salem, USA

I have tried to fix the page, Salem (Days of our Lives). I added, Notable Residents and DiMera's in Salem, among making other stuff on the page more presentable. All other people should contribute to that page, adding all much-needed information and pictures. Port Charles (General Hospital) is a good example for a fictional town on a soap opera. We should model Salem by Port Charles.71.125.212.188 02:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC) :)