Talk:Freedom Alliance (Finland): Difference between revisions
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::You just pretty much disproved your own point: it is entirely possible to support seizing private property without being a communist. Wikipedia doesn't interpret or conjecture; it reports what reliable sources have said. If the Freedom Alliance is indeed Hard Eurosceptic, it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument. Without an explicit link between the party and the ideology, we're still talking about original research. [[User:Jah77|Jah77]] ([[User talk:Jah77|talk]]) 13:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
::You just pretty much disproved your own point: it is entirely possible to support seizing private property without being a communist. Wikipedia doesn't interpret or conjecture; it reports what reliable sources have said. If the Freedom Alliance is indeed Hard Eurosceptic, it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument. Without an explicit link between the party and the ideology, we're still talking about original research. [[User:Jah77|Jah77]] ([[User talk:Jah77|talk]]) 13:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:::"it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument." of course, if you look at the ideology of the party in relation to foreign policy, and the fact that it wishes to leave the European Union makes it Hard Eurosceptic, in general Soft Eurosceptic parties wish to limit the powers of the EU, while Hard Eurosceptics wish to leave it. For reference as examples look at: [[European Conservatives and Reformists]], [[Popular Republican Union (2007)]], [[The Left in the European Parliament – GUE/NGL]] and [[Law and Justice]] and the [[Sweden Democrats]]. [[User:IkuTurisas|IkuTurisas]] ([[User talk:IkuTurisas|talk]]) 13:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
:::"it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument." of course, if you look at the ideology of the party in relation to foreign policy, and the fact that it wishes to leave the European Union makes it Hard Eurosceptic, in general Soft Eurosceptic parties wish to limit the powers of the EU, while Hard Eurosceptics wish to leave it. For reference as examples look at: [[European Conservatives and Reformists]], [[Popular Republican Union (2007)]], [[The Left in the European Parliament – GUE/NGL]] and [[Law and Justice]] and the [[Sweden Democrats]]. [[User:IkuTurisas|IkuTurisas]] ([[User talk:IkuTurisas|talk]]) 13:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
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::::It's not the reader's (or editor's) task to "look at the ideology of the party" and compare it with this or that definition to determine what the party's ideology is. I'm still waiting for a direct reference related to Freedom Alliance, not generic dictionary definitions for hard or soft Euroscepticism. Why the insistence on slapping such labels, anyway? The article already describes the party's stance on the EU ("the party advocates for Finland to leave the European Union and condemns the EU as being anti-democratic, globalist and elitist"), so why not leave it at that and let readers draw their own conclusions? [[User:Jah77|Jah77]] ([[User talk:Jah77|talk]]) 15:55, 17 May 2024 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 15:55, 17 May 2024
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Sourcing and weasel words
Vague and unattributed expressions like "can be described as" are weasel words that don't belong in Wikipedia. If Freedom Alliance "can be described as" Hard Eurosceptic, individualist or whatever, provide a reliable source where someone has actually done so. Merely providing a definition for Hard Euroscepticism doesn't prove that Freedom Alliance is Hard Eurosceptic. Claiming that it does is WP:OR. Jah77 (talk) 09:07, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- okay, but the Freedom Alliance was literally described as individualist in the source so i dont get your point, also for the party being Hard Eurosceptic isn't something you need a source for, you can compare the values of the party with the definition, in the same way you dont need to prove that a party that supports seizing private property doesent need to be proven via source to be communist, this logic can be applied to the freedom party. Its common sense. IkuTurisas (talk) 12:18, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- You just pretty much disproved your own point: it is entirely possible to support seizing private property without being a communist. Wikipedia doesn't interpret or conjecture; it reports what reliable sources have said. If the Freedom Alliance is indeed Hard Eurosceptic, it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument. Without an explicit link between the party and the ideology, we're still talking about original research. Jah77 (talk) 13:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- "it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument." of course, if you look at the ideology of the party in relation to foreign policy, and the fact that it wishes to leave the European Union makes it Hard Eurosceptic, in general Soft Eurosceptic parties wish to limit the powers of the EU, while Hard Eurosceptics wish to leave it. For reference as examples look at: European Conservatives and Reformists, Popular Republican Union (2007), The Left in the European Parliament – GUE/NGL and Law and Justice and the Sweden Democrats. IkuTurisas (talk) 13:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- It's not the reader's (or editor's) task to "look at the ideology of the party" and compare it with this or that definition to determine what the party's ideology is. I'm still waiting for a direct reference related to Freedom Alliance, not generic dictionary definitions for hard or soft Euroscepticism. Why the insistence on slapping such labels, anyway? The article already describes the party's stance on the EU ("the party advocates for Finland to leave the European Union and condemns the EU as being anti-democratic, globalist and elitist"), so why not leave it at that and let readers draw their own conclusions? Jah77 (talk) 15:55, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- "it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument." of course, if you look at the ideology of the party in relation to foreign policy, and the fact that it wishes to leave the European Union makes it Hard Eurosceptic, in general Soft Eurosceptic parties wish to limit the powers of the EU, while Hard Eurosceptics wish to leave it. For reference as examples look at: European Conservatives and Reformists, Popular Republican Union (2007), The Left in the European Parliament – GUE/NGL and Law and Justice and the Sweden Democrats. IkuTurisas (talk) 13:52, 17 May 2024 (UTC)
- You just pretty much disproved your own point: it is entirely possible to support seizing private property without being a communist. Wikipedia doesn't interpret or conjecture; it reports what reliable sources have said. If the Freedom Alliance is indeed Hard Eurosceptic, it shouldn't be that hard to find a source that says so, or at least a reference to a plank in the party platform or somesuch that supports the argument. Without an explicit link between the party and the ideology, we're still talking about original research. Jah77 (talk) 13:03, 17 May 2024 (UTC)