Talk:George Reeves

Look most anywhere on the internet and you'll find his birthday given as 1/5/1914, but according to what's written on his grave, it was actually 1/6/1914 (visible here), so that's the date I gave in the article. Everyking 22:33, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

• The find-a-grave site that you cite states that his mother made a mistake on the grave marker and that his birthday was the 5th, not the 6th. That seems kind of incredible, but who knows? Wahkeenah 15:58, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Sure, change it then. A definitive source would be nice, but that's good enough for me. Everyking 19:32, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

---

"surrounded by speculation in the years since" — speculation that he was what? murdered? details please. RedWolf 03:59, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)

reply

No speculation, but they are still part of any biography on any site on george reeves, as long as word allegedly is there, it's proper, grow up. http://geocities.com/georgereevesproject/George.txt

George Reeves Project

To vandals changing this bio, keep on doing this, will no help you, we are doing only what is correct, nothing more, nothing else, so get lost, we are here to stay! User:Vesa 21:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

• Your "George Reeves Project" page, which is totally POV (and probably a bogus invention on your part) is already marked for deletion, and your continued bogus editorializing on the Reeves page will "no help you" either. You silly pudding. Wahkeenah 18:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

• Your "G. Reeves Project" page, a copycat of your previous page, is also now marked for deletion. Wahkeenah 15:52, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Update... it is now deleted. Wahkeenah 20:08, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply

The only bogus version is your version of deletion...

Premiere date of "Adventures of Superman"

Since there is a minor edit war over the start date of the series, I searched on the web and found:

• According to tv.com the first show was aired on September 19, 1952.
• imdb.com gives a start date of 1952.
• amazon.com also give a start date of 1952 in the title of the dvds of the show.
• this hobbyist-type site quotes from THE COMPLETE DIRECTORY TO PRIME TIME NETWORK AND CABLE TV SHOWS 1946-PRESENT By Tim Brooks and Earle Marsh: "Although the first batch of 26 Superman films were made in 1951, the series did not reach local TV stations until late 1952."
• this hobbyist-type site says that the first season was filmed in 1951 and gives a TV premiere date of "early 1953"
• [this hobbyist-type site gives the same dates -- filming in 1951, TV premiere early 1953
• this hobbyist-type site gives a premiere date of April 1 1952 (and ending in 1957).

So we have:

• 1952:

• All three professional sites.
• The one hobbyist-type site that quotes from a published source.

• EARLY 1953:

• Two hobbyist-type sites.

• EARLY 1951:

• One hobbyist-type sute.

Considering also that shows premiered in fall. A spring start (either 1951 or 1953) would be most unusual, although note that this was syndicated program. All in all, it seems that 1952 seems the most likely start date. (There are a couple of published books that would clear this all up, but I don't have any of them). So I have changed the start date back to 1952, for now Vesa, if you have sources that describe otherwise, could you cite them here? Herostratus 04:03, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• Please note also that the first season's COPYRIGHT DATE on each episode is 1952. Wahkeenah 05:43, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Unencyclopedic passage

Cut from article:

The book makes an interesting argument for Reeves having been the target of a "hit" due to having spurned a long-time lover with mob connections. The hypothesis is that the aforementioned car accident was also an attempted hit. There is no question that Reeves' circle of friends included some unsavory characters. There are groups trying to muster support for re-opening the investigation. And they are correct by doing so. They are not re-opening the investigation but trying to change the death certificate. George Reeves certificate to this day remains SUICIDE, WHICH SHOULD BE CHANGED TO: REASONS UNKNOWN, DEATH BY GUNSHOT. The George Reeves Project strives to change that. It's hard to conceive why LS, Beverly Hills Police Chief, William Paker did not call special team to investigate Reeves' death, mandatory in such high profile murders. The coroners did not even bother checking his hands for gun residue, they just washed it. The main suspects in his murder would be Toni Mannix, his mistress of many years and his financial supporter and Eddie Mannix. The Hollywood Kingpin and former MGM V.P, with ties to the gangs and the underworld. If George lived to see June 17th, he had a 2 round scheduled match with light heavyweight champion of he world Archie Moore. Reeves was a boxing fan and it's hard to conceive he'd kill himself before his big day in the ring. George Reeves was a golden gloves champion in his youth, with undefeated record.

Some of this may well belong in the article, especially if it can be cited, but the whole passage is basically unencyclopedic. To give just a few examples:

• "There are groups trying to muster support for re-opening the investigation. And they are correct by doing so." Who is saying they are correct? Utterly POV, as far as I can tell.
• The only Google hit for "William Paker" + "Beverly Hills" is something in Italian. Perhaps this is LAPD Chief William H. Parker, who deserves an article, but doesn't have one?
• Naming murder "suspects" who were never charged, without citation, borders on libel.

Jmabel | Talk 00:57, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

• Suspects were never charged because of the corruptiong of the police, if it was a different county, that would have happened!
  • The above was written by User:64.107.2.115 31 December 2005 (UTC), whose sock puppets include Vesa and Projects. You can tell they are the same guy due to their poor English. Wahkeenah 15:52, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok, why not put this under dispute, but create link

     THE GEORGE REEVES PROJECT

       This is all part of George Reeves Project. What is it ? 

George Reeves Project strives to correct mistakes of the past. It deals with George Reeves mostly, and also with Paul Bern and Thelma Todd. Paul Bern died 27 years earlier on Benedict Canyon, place where Reeves lived. Both deaths are suspicious, but as far as Bern goes, there is some evidence he killed himself and tried killing himself, of course those are only rumors. Also, in his close family, some of them committed suicide. But then again, that is circumstantial evidence. The note Paul Bern left is very questionable and disputed, his wife Jean Harlow, never said anything that Bern was in desperate situation, they did not have a serious fight last night and he never spoke about suicide. Some say he was impotent, again, he was married before and he had a mistress, chances of that are very unlikely. George did not have any kids, so when his mother died, nobody was left to control his estate, except for greedy individuals, a pack of Jims, which claim they love George but can not wait to make money of his image. Thelma Todd, well, at least, she was saved a terrible death certificate. It says 'Accident.' The George Reeves Project strives to correct the death certificate from: DEATH BY SUICIDE TO: DEATH BY GUNSHOT, REASONS UNKNOWN, UNCERTAIN. Nothing more, nothing else and definitely it's how it was meant to be.

And majority of fans wants it this was as well.

THERE ARE MANY INCONSISTENCIES SURROUNDING GEORGE'S DEATH. THE L.A. POLICE AND CHIEF BILL PARKER ONLY WANTED TO HAVE THIS CASE CLOSED ASAP AND MAKE IT LOOK A SUICIDE. THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE IN HOLLYW0OD WHO PREFER IT LIKE THIS TO THIS DAY. GEORGE WAS NOT PROPERLY EXAMINED, HANDS WERE WASHED OF POSSIBLE GUN RESIDUE, NO REAL INVESTIGATION TOOK PLACE AND NO AUTOPSY WAS PERFORMED, AS DEMANDED BY COUNTY'S LAW, ESPECIALLY IN HIGH PROFILE MURDERS. ONLY LATER AFTER INSISTENCE OF HIS MOTHER AND SHE PAID FOR IT. THEREFORE AND THIS, HIS OFFICIAL DEATH CERTIFICATE DESERVES CHANGES. FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO THE PROPER AUTHORITIES

Please be aware that it is not the purpose of Wikiepdia to right the world's wrongs. We're only here to write the world's encyclopedia. Your project should not try to use these pages to further some external goal. Sourced, verifiable information, presented in a neutral fashion, is welcome. Thanks, -Will Beback 21:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

User:Vesa a.k.a. User:Projects (among others) can't even get the air dates right, and the rest is a POV that is well-covered in the interesting book I cited, Hollywood Kryptonite. "These" users also cannot write proper English, which is what gives away that "they" are the same user, despite "their" denials. Wahkeenah 00:13, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply to vandal Wakkeenah

To all the vandals and so called just administrators, the air dates are minor problems, the facts and details surrounding Reeves suicided are not being written well enough, as everybody else is reporting, the fact that Reeves was to fight Moore next day, is also being reverted, this is pure vandalism. As far as spelling goes by Vesa or Projects or whoever, well, if you keep on repeating yourself and have no time, some spelling errors might occur, but it's not the spelling that counts but content which is being vandalised by so called just users and administrators of this so called just wikipedia. And it is obvious wahkeenah has some personal interest in this, proof: All over internet we have Reeves' death explained in detail and possible people involved, but over here he is taking everything down, the idiotic administratotors are reversing it, thus making themselves look stupid and ignorant by not realizing the historical facts.

• And you keep pushing a point of view, which is against wiki policy, not that you care one iota about that. Your errors keep reappearing because you are simply pasting the previous stuff in. You don't really care about George Reeves or anything else, you're just doing this stuff to annoy us. So far, it's working. >:( Wahkeenah 16:06, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

NOT CARING

DID YOU SAY WE ARE NOT CARING, O NO, I AM DOING THIS BECAUSE I CARE AND YOU DO NOT, OK, IF I HAVE PERSONAL OPINION, LET ME KNOW, BUT I TRIED MY BEST TO MAKE THIS AS NEUTRAL AS POSSIBLE AND ACCORDING TO WHAT HAS BEEN KNOWN AND TALKED ABOUT, GROW UP!

• To assert that there are questions about Reeves' death is factual. To assert that it was murder is NOT factual, it is a POINT OF VIEW. Your writeup is in no way neutral, and you know it. And your English sucks. Wahkeenah 18:47, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

NO, YOU ARE WRONG AND VERY LITTLE RIGHT

We are not asserting, we are stating and saying that it is possible he was murdered, and you yourself wrote that, ok AND ALSO THE SUICIDE IS ALSO NOT FACTUAL, BECAUSE POLICE, L.A. DID NOT FOLLOW PROCEDURES TO PROPERLY CALL THIS A SUICIDE, SO GROW UP... WHATEVER WAS NOT NEUTRAL YOU DID NOT POINT OUT, NOW SITE IS BLOCKED, AND YOUR STORY IS FULL OF MISTAKES, BUT WE WILL MAKE SURE MORE IS WRITTEN HERE, AT LEAST... BECAUSE GEORGE WAS ALLEGEDLY MURDERED BY EDDIE MANNIX AND TONI MANNIX AND MOST LIKELY AND AT ANY RATE IT WAS NOT SUICIDE, IT WAS MURDER OT RUSSIAL ROULETTE ACCIDENT. WHAT IS TRUTH ? IT CHANGES WITH TIME AND NEUTRALITY IN YOUR OPINION ONLY BELONGS IN YOUR WORLD BOY. - 66.99.0.198 13:59, 7 January 2006

Looks like your Caps Lock key got stuck. You might want to check that. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:22, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Can you say obsessed? Dyslexic agnostic 21:25, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Even if everything you and your sockpuppets say were absolutely true...

...it is still unacceptable because your usage of English sucks so badly. Go take some classes and come back here when you can write an actual normal English sentence. Wahkeenah 20:05, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, my fellow thespian, that has been explained before. Changing bios all the time, takes time and with 100wpm, you must make mistakes. Now...

http://geocities.com/georgereevesproject/SupermansMother.pdf About Reeves' mother and her search for justice, which you obstructed on this site, you shameful animals...

Truth, justice, american way

I'd like to point out a few things, it's good they are remembering George, unlike ignorant users of this site who can not come on some agreement, but the movie is only a flashback and no real George or (I could be wrong, but I doubt it) clips, voice has been used, it does not solve the problem, only explains some mystery,so I would not recommend the movie!

• No, it's not your typing speed, you just keep pasting the same stuff in again. If you can't be bothered to write correctly, you have no business writing here at all. Wahkeenah 00:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply No, it was reverted, not just pasted, however in the beginning, there were few mistakes, but not in the later postings, spelling was correct, then again, you have no place here, because you are probably one of the family members who was invloved in the murder anyways and now you want to let it be like it was, shame on you... User:66.99.0.131 18:54, 10 January 2006 (UTC) (sockpuppets include User:Projects, User:Vesa and other now-blocked accounts).

• I was 8 when my hero died. You're rubbing salt in that wound. Lay off. >:( Wahkeenah 07:20, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Lay off what

Is it possible then, you are connected via family members ? AFter all, THE FIGHT WITH ARCHIE MOORE, TWO ROUNDS, JUNE 18TH, WHERE IS IT, DELETED, INVESTIGATION BY POLICE, ALSO GONE, HIS HANDS WASHED, ALL THOSE THINGS, WE POSTED AND YOU ERASED, CALL YOURSELF JUST, HECK NO~! NOT AT ALL, YOU AND THE REST, BUT THIS IS NOT OVER AT ALL...

"Is it possible then" that the above is trolling, pure and simple? -- Jmabel | Talk 21:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply

Is it possible user Jmabel is trolling here some more and blabbing? User:64.107.1.197 23:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC) (sockpuppets include User:Projects, User:Vesa and other now-blocked accounts).

"Is it possible" that the above is a continuation of said trolling? I think one look at my contributions list and that of User:64.107.1.197 will settle the matter. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Revert war

If you don't start discussing this rather than reverting I will protect this page. DJ Clayworth 23:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

It has been discussed many times

And you people dont seem to understand, this is how it should look like:

George Reeves

George Bessolo Reeves (born George Keefer Brewer to Don Brewer and Helen Lescher) (January 6, 1914 – June 16, 1959) was an [[United States|American]] actor, best known for playing the role of Superman on television in the 1950s.

Early Career

Reeves film career began in 1939. He was featured in minor roles, one being as one of Vivian Leigh's beaus in the initial scene of Gone With the Wind. In 1942 he won acclaim for his part in So Proudly We Hail.

Military Service

Military service then interupted his career. Reeves enlisted in the United States Army Air Corps and appeared in war training films. Reeves found leading parts lacking after the war and at one point was forced to earn a living digging septic systems. (after the end of Superman tv show)

Superman

Reeves, offered the role of Superman in a television series, was reluctant at first to take the role. Like many actors, he considered television to be unimportant and thought that few would see his work. He was astonished when he became a national celebrity. He became so well known that he was often forced to do personal appearances as Superman. This was always embarrassing for the actor because he pointed out that many children would often test his super powers by physically assaulting him. In one instance, a youngster came up to him with a loaded gun and said that he was going to shoot bullets off Superman's chest!

Reeves first appeared as the Superman character in 1951 in a theatrical feature called Superman and the Mole Men. It was effectively a pilot for the TV series, whose regular episodes began filming soon after, during 1951 and 1952. That film was edited down to a two-part episode for the TV series, retitled The Unknown People. The original film was seldom seen after its initial release, but it is on the DVD of the first season which was released in the fall of 2005.

The Superman TV series was broadcast in first-run from the fall of 1951 through the spring of 1958, a total of 104 episodes. In addition, Reeves appeared as Superman in a Goverment short film, entitled either "Stamp Day for Superman" or "Superman's Stamp Day" (title unclear). In this, Superman's job was to catch some crooks and tell kids why they should invest in government bonds. Reeves also appeared as Superman in an episode of "[[I Love Lucy]]" in 1956.

After Superman

After the series went off the air, Reeves found himself so typecast as Superman that it was difficult for him find other roles and this was said to have deeply saddened him. One example sometimes cited is that he was upset when his scenes in the classic film [[From Here To Eternity]] were all cut after a preview audience kept yelling "Superman!" whenever he appeared. While the last part of that statement is apparently true, that film was released in 1953, when Reeves was still in his early days as the Superman character. Whether the original theatrical release of the film included those scenes, the DVD release does include Reeves' brief appearance as a former lover of the Deborah Kerr character.

Death

In the early morning hours of June 16 1959, three days before a planned wedding to Lenore Lemmon, Reeves went to bed after a long night with guests. Shortly thereafter, a shot rang out, and he was found dead in his bedroom with a gunshot wound to the head. An official inquiry concluded that the death was suicide. His disbelieving mother conducted an investigation of her own, which was inconclusive.

With suicide the official verdict, much speculation resulted as to whether it was because of his failed career. It was also noted that he had suffered a concussion in an auto accident shortly before that event, leading some to suspect that his mental health had been compromised. These facts are recounted in Gary Grossman's 1976 book, Superman: Serial to Cereal. At that time, suicide was the predominant presumed cause of death, and various reasons were cited to justify or explain it.

In recent years, there have been questions raised again as to whether Reeves' death was really a suicide, or whether it was a murder covered up Hollywood insiders, similar to the claims about suspicious deaths of other Hollywood notables such as Thelma Todd and Paul Bern. The 1996 book, Hollywood Kryptonite, by Sam Kashner and Nancy Schoenberger, discusses the issues, the doubts by friends and relatives, the forensic evidence as to whether suicide was even physically possible, whether the shooting was properly investigated by police, and alternative theories.

The book makes an interesting argument for Reeves having been the target of a "hit" due to having spurned a long-time lover with mob connections. The hypothesis is that the aforementioned car accident was also an attempted hit. There is no question that Reeves' circle of friends included some unsavory characters. There are groups trying to change the death certificate, not reopen the case. However, the allegations and unanswered questions are unlikely ever to be resolved, due to the passage of time and the deaths of apparently everyone who might know the truth. There are many doubters, it is very well possible he was murdered by his former lover Toni. Nobody was accused of anything since people like Toni Mannix and Eddie Mannix were very powerful. There is evidence they wanted to call this death suicide immediately. Coroner did not even check for gun residue on Reeves hands, they were washed of any evidence. Assuming If George lived to see June 17th, he had a 2 round scheduled exhibition match with light heavyweight champion of he world Archie Moore. Reeves was a boxing fan and it's hard to conceive he'd kill himself before his big day in the ring. George Reeves was a golden gloves champion in his youth, with undefeated record. (record uncertain) Suicide a day before the big match which be talked about for a long time ?

Other Reeve(s)

Because of the similar surnames, people sometimes surmise that George Reeves is related to Christopher Reeve, an actor who would later portray Superman on the big screen. It should be noted that the two are not related, as the last names differ, and the similarity is merely coincidental. Nor is there any relation between him and Steve Reeves, the actor/bodybuilder from the same era; nor any known relation to a character actor named Richard Reeves a.k.a. Dick Reeves, who looked nothing like George, but happened to appear in several "Superman" episodes. There was G. R. Explorer, politican in the Texas House of representatives, boxing promoter in 1900, escaped prisoner and a few others...

External links

• George Reeves at IMDb