Talk:Kfar Saba

Spelling Note

It can be Kfar Sava (official "academic") or Kfar Saba (unofficial but used by everybody including Mayor Ben Hamo and former Mayor Wald) but never "Kefar"

I think the article should be moved to Kfar Saba as that is the spelling used by the municipality (therefore it is official, despite possibly being unacademic). I will move it if no one objects. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 19:51, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

It should be noted that "Kefar Sava" is the spelling preferred by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics. [1] However, I'm not personally getting involved in the decision of what to name this article. - Gilgamesh 17:27, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

I know I recommended you to check the CBS spellings myself at some point, seeing as how they appear on Israeli road signs AFAIK (and other reasons), but now that I think about it, many of them are not widely used, especially by officials in the cities themselves. Petah Tikva (vs. Petah Tiqwa, according to CBS) is a good example. By starting this discussion I'm trying to see what the consensus is, since there are a lot of spellings, and more than one can be called official. -- Y Ynhockey || Talk Y 18:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Now that I think of it, up to three different official spellings can be mentioned, in order of highest priority to lowest. (1) The common English spelling, e.g. Jerusalem, Tiberias, Nazareth, Safed, Acre, Beersheba. (2) The central government or local municipal spelling, whichever is more common in an Israel-wide context. (3) The other of these two spellings which is less common Israel-wide than the other. The first one should be the article name, and the other two (if different) should also be described and mentioned in their contexts. Many place names in Israel are probably going to be the same for all three categories, and others will have two, and a few will have three. Examples: Safed/Tzfat/Zefat, Nazareth/Natzrat/Nazerat, Tiberias/Tverya/Teverya. - Gilgamesh 03:12, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

In Israel there is only one official body that has the authority to determine place names, and that is the Government Names Committee [2]. With all due respect to the mayor or the municipality web site, they do not decide what their city's name is. The official name in English is Kefar Sava. While the E in Kefar may not be essential (it is the transliteration of a schwa, which varies), the V (rather than B) in Sava is essential. Kfar Saba is nothing but a common mispronunciation. I really don't understand Wikipedia's consistent preference of common mispronunciations over official names.--128.139.104.49 (talk) 18:33, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

The name is supposed to be the most recognizable to English-speakers worldwide, and Kfar Sava is definitely not recognizable to both English and Hebrew-speakers. Yes, it's the correct transliteration, and it's included in the article. Wikipedia does not usually give extra weight to official names. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 18:45, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Then I suggest you change the names of the articles Holon, Ramla, Lod and Sderot to the commonly used and recognizable to English and Hebrew speakers worldwide Hulon, Ramle, Lud and Shderot, respectively. We don't want to give extra weight to official names, do we?--128.139.104.49 (talk) 19:00, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

That's ridiculous. Those names aren't common at all. Please do a Google search if you don't believe me. -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 19:49, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Shderot is more commonly found by Google than Sderot ([3] vs. [4]). Add Yotvata, whose correct name gets a lower Google hit rate than the incorrect "Yotveta" ([5] vs. [6]). On the other hand, Ramle is not only the name used in English literature for centuries, but is also the commonly used name in Israel and even its determined mayor has a hard time remembering to use the official name Ramla [7], yet the Wikipedia article uses the official name. Obviously Wikipedia doesn't pretend to be consistent about naming. Back to Kefar Sava -- strangely enough, Encyclopedia Britannica prefers the official name. But Wikipedia is not like Britannica. Wikipedia shuns the official Names Committee's research and conclusions, ignores British Mandate documents and opts for the vulgar pronunciation, as indicated by Google. Is it necessary to bring any justification for the deviation from the official name, linguistic, historic or otherwise (as may be the case with Ramle)? No, a Google count is sufficient. Some scholarly accomplishment, this Wikipedia is.--128.139.104.49 (talk) 22:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

What are you talking about? On default search settings, Sderot gets 1,300,000 hits against Shderot's 21,000. Yotvata gets 54,700 hits against Yotveta's 1,540. Ramla gets 888,000 vs. 180,000 for Ramle, and Holon gets 1,060,000 results vs. 64,700 for Hulon (most of which aren't even related to the city). I'm not sure how you have been searching. Wikipedia's naming convention system works better than you think, and I encourage you to register an account and start finding more about Wikipedia rather than criticizing it. Good day, -- Ynhockey ^(Talk) 23:30, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

That's very strange. I get 1,330,000 for Shderot and 56,400 for Yotveta. Nevermind. Anyway, just to get it straight, the only argument you have in support of "Kfar Saba" is a higher Google hit rate? I'm reading through WP:NCGN and I note that: 1. Kfar Saba is not a widely accepted English name (such as Jerusalem); 2. I haven't seen a source that says that "Kfar Saba is the name most often used for ...", if you are aware of such a source, please provide; 3. Consulting Encyclopedia Britannica reveals no Kfar Saba, but rather Kefar Sava (same goes for Encarta); 4. and finally, the guidelines discourage raw Google searches to determine place names. The guidelines are indeed reasonable, and I believe they support my view.--128.139.104.49 (talk) 02:29, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Geography

Main thoroughfare is Weizmann street. Located on route 4. 18 km from Tel Aviv, 70 from Jerusalem. Raanana to the West, Hod Ha-Sharon to the South, Neve Yamin to the East. (Will elaborate)

Religious makeup

From what I can tell from the article as it is right now, the municipality is majority-Jewish?

My registrar idregister.com says it is situated here, and I'm curious.

Just a disclaimer that I'm not trying to draw unnecessary attention or conflict.

Yes, the city Kfar Saba is mainly Jewish. This page does not list a Jewish population for Kfar Saba (as it does for Jerusalem, for example), meaning it has a small to negligible non-Jewish population. -- Y Ynhockey ^(Talk) Y 16:54, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

The "small to negligible" part may be correct. There are some non-Jews in Kfar Saba: immigrants from the former Soviet Union who qualify for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return, and immigrants from other countries (notably Argentina) under the same status. Then, there are quite a few guest workers: nannies and caregivers from the Phillipines, construction and other workers (mostly from China and Eastern Europe). There are a few Arabs living within city limits, including students living on rented apartments, and the AbuSnena clan who live in the outskirts and carries some influence with City Hall for complex historical reasons. Note that most of the Eastern lands were once "Arab Kfar Saba", and that the name does not refer to a grandfather, but to a guy named Saba from pre-Talmudic who, so goes the legend, arranged the meeting between Alexander the Great and the Jewish High Priest (Alexander was a noted visitor of holy places of invadee's religions, and somehow he was persuaded to meet the High Priest on the plain and not venture to Jerusalem). elpincha 14:56, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Move vote

I guess the previous discussion didn't move along too well, so I'm proposing a vote for the naming of this article.

Vote

Kefar Sava (current, official [CBS]; 33,500 Google hits)

Kfar Sava (academic; 76,800 Google hits)

Kfar Saba (common, official [municipal website]; 278,000 Google hits)

1. Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)