Talk:Nicolás Maduro

Lies

There are several lies here. is understandable because many anti-government who speak English, they lie more easily.1. The Supreme Court of Venezuela stated that the president did not violate the constitution in any case. based on their powers of Article 335 and 336 on the interpretation of the Constitution. (see the judgments of January 9 2013 and March 8 2013 and Articles 335 and 336 of the Bolivarian Constitution who are here in English http://www.analitica.com/bitblioteca/venezuela/constitucion_ingles.pdf) http://www.tsj.gov.ve/informacion/notasdeprensa/notasdeprensa.asp?codigo=10001 2. Nicolas Maduro is Catholic, http://www.notitarde.com/Pais/Nicolas-Maduro-y-Jaua-llegan-a-Cuba-con-estatuas-religiosas-para-Chávez---/2013/02/06/164445 has made numerous references to Christ and refers to the pope as "His Holiness",http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/157114/la-carta-que-envio-maduro-a-francisco-celebro-que-sea-el-primer-papa-latinoamericano/ the gift will also religious images of the Virgin Mary, Chavez during his stay in Cuba. There is a campaign against him, including lies about his religion.3. Nicolas Maduro never offended gays. Nicolas Maduro attacked his opponent with strong words.http://www.noticias24.com/venezuela/noticia/102664/canciller-nicolas-maduro-se-disculpa-por-adjetivo-homofobico-dirigido-a-capriles-radonski/ He apologized if anyone in the gay community was offended. --186.89.18.220 (talk) 15:16, 21 March 2013 (UTC) Response to (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 00:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

• Your argument is against allegations of criticism, which are sourced by many news agencies, and thus you cannot refute a well founded allegation. Kudos on the attempt though.
• Your argument that Maduro never offended gays, well here is the video to prove you are incorrect [1]
• If you intend to call English speakers liars, then take your editorial rants to the Spanish page.

98.252.50.93 (talk) 00:40, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Violation of Venezuelan Constitution

By assuming power over the president of the national assembly, Maduro violated article 229, 231, and 233 of the Venezuelan constitution. Given virtually half of Venezuela does not accept him as their president, perhaps this should be a larger part of the discussion. As a follow up, his claims that the CIA 'inoculated' Chavez with cancer seems utterly missing from this article.

The Guardian article doesn't say that "virtually half of Venezuela does not accept him as their president." If you're going to keep lying about what the source says, no one will take you seriously. Ratemonth (talk) 23:43, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

Also, Wikipedia does not judge whether or not he violated the constitution. We do not give our opinions. We get information from reliable sources. All we can say based on the Guardian article is that opposition figures say he violated it. Anything beyond that is original research (making stuff up) and vandalism that must be reverted. Ratemonth (talk) 23:44, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I respect your guidance on this. Isn't it a fatal flaw however that given 44% of the electorate (and the entire political machine behind it) boycotted the election? Or would you have me include more links regarding this. I can, but I would hope to avoid more name calling or humiliation. The link to the 44% and thus their political body in entirety is here, Google "Maduro Boycott" - or simply look inside my original article! The opposition party is literally boycotting his inauguration which held virtually half of all voting Venezuelans. I think you could really just alter my syntax to something more, politically palpable? or simply euphemism. You are misinterpreting a lacking on my side of specific encyclopedic or euphemistic rhetoric, for me being a liar, which is depressing. If you don't like 'virtually half of Venezuela' then write up 'Many Venezuelan voters do not' or 'A large percent of Venezuelans do not"

I find it sad that you don't focus moreso (the community as a whole) on yellow journalism and blogs. I can't tell you how I wish you would exact your razor like reviews upon Chavez's page which holds 10 link backs to 'venezuelanalysis.com' arguably the most yellow journalism that Venezuela has seen outside of its state media. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 04:54, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Relevance

What is the relevance of the following in the article. Looks to me like POV pushing, as a minister he has said many things and many people have said a lot about him but just have this particular part gives the indication that we in Wikipedia can't have a balanced perspective about a current politician.

• In January 2009, Israel ordered the Venezuelan ambassador and his staff to leave the country after Venezuela expelled Israeli diplomats over Israel's military offensive in the Gaza Strip. In an interview with Al-Jazeera, Maduro stated, with regard to Israel's expelling of the Venezuelan ambassador, that "The response of the State of Israel is weak, late and in any case for us it's an honor. We're proud that the State of Israel that exists today, led by these criminals, made this decision."

• On September 2006, he was detained in the USA by US Homeland Security officers at JFK Airport, after paying for three air tickets in cash.

Kanatonian (talk) 14:42, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

It's unfortunate to remove information from an important article that is already quite short.

I can see your point. When he made the comment about Israel, he was simply being the spokesman for Venezuelan government policy. So that paragraph should be in an article explaining Venezuela's international relations, not in this article. And the detention says more about US Homeland Security and Venezuela-US relations than it says about Maduro.

I wouldn't have removed the text from the article, but I also won't revert the change. Gronky (talk) 21:09, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

However, this nomination is in violation of the Venezuelan constitution. Additionally this English page neglected to update his expulsion of US delegates and claims of the US 'planting' cancer within Chavez. I sincerely hope the resident editors here do not allow the repeated link backs to Venezuelaanalysis.com... as that is yellow journalism at its finest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 15:34, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

nation

metizo? american indian?--Kaiyr (talk) 13:25, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

He is, like 99% of Venezuelans, mixed race. He is probably more European than anything else, though: 92% of Venezuelans have a European male haplogroup. 50% of Venezuelans have a native American female haplogroup and the rest is European or African American. That shows just two branches of anyone's ancestry but that tells you something. His nationality is simply "Venezuelan". --Periergeia (talk) 23:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Do you have a socialist, communist, capitalist hidden agenda?

You continue to promote ballgame ´slap the butt of the players´ & ´squeeze their balls´ because that feels nice (to you, most likely). This isn´t that type of USA ballgame. Maduro is a political player, but one with insufficient public support to ever be elected on a popular ballot larger than municipal/city. The base of the psuv is in relation to NON-city arenas and in that area, to be quite frank, he sucks, his support, coming primarily from a caracas baseline.

Most of what is placed in wiki, concerning biographies, has two tints: social innuendo, and social innuendo, as if you where all afraid to look at your cards because the tell in your face would immediately be visible.

Write about the reality, not your fantasy, except if you are not so real yourselfs, where that would be unavoidable.

Maduro was checked at the counter, because he payed in cash, and pretty much everyone and the kitchen sink, do that in credit. Doesn´t he have a credit card? Yes, he does, several of them, and all governmental issue, therefore there was/is no issue, and therefore that could very well have been a socialist putz, where he wanted to be questioned in order to obtain some fuel to be used for his partying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.79.47.55 (talk) 16:04, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Religion

Is there any reference in Spanish that his religion is Roman Catholic? I could not find it in English and I do not speak Spanish. See also Talk:Sathya_Sai_Baba#Missing:_movement_is_Hindu. The Sathya Sai Baba movement sees itself as interfaith and adherents usually see no contradiction between being Roman Catholic and being and adherent of the Sathya Sai Baba movement at the same time. Andries (talk) 06:45, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Please either give a balanced desciption of a controversial aspect of the Sathya Sai Baba movement article or do not write anything.

A balanced description i.e. summary of this aspect at Sathya Sai Baba movement would be "the Sathya Sai Baba movement teaches the unity of faith, but is classified in scholarly sources as a Hindu movement". Andries (talk) 20:00, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

in this source is a recent speech in which "Maduro", declared itself Christian.

"I'm Christian and I have no doubt that the commander Chavez is now beside the liberator"

in several speeches talking about Christianity:

"only a new formula, Christian, socialist, will end with the crime""

Acting President

Maduro is the current Acting President of Venezuela and Vice President of Venezuela. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.136.221.199 (talk) 23:07, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Not de jure, due to a technicality. Had Chávez been sworn into his new term, Maduro would be Acting President, but since he was too ill to do so, the Constitution gives the technically lapsed presidency to the President of the National Assembly, Diosdado Cabello. I was confused for a while, too. De facto is a less clear picture right now. Dralwik|^{Have a Chat} 01:17, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

The constitution might give this to Cabello, but sources are reporting that Maduro is acting. I've left a note at the Help Desk to try to figure out the best way to discuss this for all four affected articles simultaneously. (Your reformat essentially makes the first portion of my comment moot) Ryan Vesey 01:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I'm maintaining the List of heads of state by diplomatic precedence, so I've put Maduro in since he's de facto president. Dralwik|^{Have a Chat} 17:23, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Actually, Maduro is Interim President. An Acting President is an official who serves during the President's incapacity, whereas an Interim President (such as Maduro) serves during a Presidential vacancy. GoodDay (talk) 13:10, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

I agree with GoodDay that while technically he should be Interim President, a significant amount of the woulds press are calling him acting president. LGA _talk^edits 08:33, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Early driver?

If Maduro was born 23 Nov 1962, how come he was "working as a bus driver by becoming an unofficial trade-unionist, representing the workers of the Caracas Metro system in the 1970s etc". Seems a bit early to be a bus driver, at age 17 yrs 1 month (when the 1970s ended),or was that unofficial too? Hmm 31.185.250.1 (talk) 03:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

comment: Back in the 60s and 70s people drove legally at a younger age in countries outside the U.S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.228.79.133 (talk) 16:31, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Odd photograph?

I'm one of those people who notices when controversial figures accidentally end up with unflattering photographs. A photographer takes a batch of photos, and generally throws out the ones where the subject contorts their face oddly. When the figure is controversial, the photographer may choose to be less discerning. I make no assumption, but I do find the choice of photo to be strange. Perhaps a better one is in order, particularly since the photo for his opponent in the upcoming elections is much more polished? 173.179.169.167 (talk) 15:37, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

You have removed all criticism portions from Maduro's page, in a torrent of 14 edits, I suggest immediate mediation if you intend to keep your account on wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.252.50.93 (talk) 22:12, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

User:173.179.169.167, you are correct in noticing "the choice of photo to be strange." I've placed a more appropriate photograph where he is smiling. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 11:19, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

See Images: "Images of living persons should not be used out of context to present a person in a false." A common sense reading ot neutrality would support this principle. TFD (talk) 14:06, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Maduro's claims that Capriles will be killed by CIA

This article is part of a new talking point by Maduro, claiming that Capriles will be killed by CIA [2], yet Capriles said openly that if he something happens to him, that is it Maduro's doing. [3]

This is especially foreboding and strange because Capriles is the favorite from international bodies (non communists ones) so why on earth would Maduro find anything about Capriles' death, unless it was merely unfounded and used as a veiled threat.

Maduro on 3/16 actually shut down an airport that Capriles was using that morning. [4] (UNSIGNED)

Embalming

I've removed the material regarding this from the controversies section. See article: [5] (Venezuela govt: Chavez will not be embalmed) Somedifferentstuff (talk) 09:06, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

(Response to this edit 'announcement)

A. That is not a discussion and B. This is a major controversy backed up by several citations. It appears you have learned very little from our :administrative review.

Apparently you are confusing the talk page with an edit summary. I suggest you revisit the wikipedia GUI.

Oh, and unless you think the other editors here are brain dead, you made numerous other edits, most of which reeked of POV.

If you think that some random quote on makes it legitimate encyclopedic that he has some how 'turned over a new leaf' you must have missed the :2012 election.

You have a quote, I have multiple full length articles, video, and a minimum of 20 quotes that say he is used gay slurs as a longer trend of :prejudice. (UNSIGNED)

POV Violation

You just removed the sourced changes made to the article by User:Scientiom. His changes can be seen in this diff.[6] I support his addition of sourced material. By removing that material you are violating the neutrality of an article which is considered a BLP. I've placed another warning on your talk page for edit warring. You also didn't format your response here correctly nor did you sign it. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 16:21, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if the other user didn't post on talk. He made changes to the article. I support his changes which means that you are violating consensus by removing the material. I know you have around 100 edits on Wikipedia but that is no excuse for your belligerence. And don't throw around the term sock puppet, it's disruptive to the project. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 16:44, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

(UPDATE) User:98.252.50.93 has been blocked for 1 week as can be seen here.[7] Somedifferentstuff (talk) 18:20, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Maduro Criticisms and Homophobic Allegations Update

• Maduro claimed the CIA was planning to kill Capriles [8]
• Capriles said that if anything happens to him, that it was Maduro's doing. [9]
• Maduro shut down an airport that Capriles was attempting to land in on March 16th. [10]
• Maduro indicates that he intends to shut down all "Comida Rapida" or fast food restaurants, while being interviewed on VTV March 24th. [11](This source is largely made up of people tweeting)
• Maduro stated "I do have a wife, you know? I do like women!" Maduro told a rally. He has also called Capriles "a little princess." (sic)[12]
• Why title a section Gay Rights, when the articles related are of to videos and quoted Homophobic remarks [13] I am requesting a revision to "Homophobic Remarks"
• A currency devaluation occurred during holy week, lowering purchasing power of the Venezuelan bolívar [14]

---

The entire world recognizes the currency devaluation, I will include this additional citation from business week to appease this ... outlandish comment.[15]

• Norkys Batista, an artist who supports Henrique Capriles, was banned from performing due to her political beliefs against the state. While 500 tickets had been issued, the hotel stated it was due to her support of Henrique Capriles, the candidate running against Maduro. [16] [17]

• A photo was leaked on March 25th via Facebook, from the director of the ministry of health, advising government workers to give a days salary towards Nicolas Maduro's reelection campaign. The letter further states that after paying at select banks, to take the payment receipt to a designated coordinator as proof of payment. The letters went out to all governmental employees.(Translated)[18](Facebook is not a reliable source)
• During Maduro's first 100 days in office, over 4,200 people have been murdered in Caracas, the capitol of Venezuela. February 2013 was the most violent month in four years in Caracas. [19] [20]

If anyone has input on how you would like these worked in, please write below. If the intention is to negate them, or use syntax turn into euphemistic statements, please reassess - Thanks

I have never heard that newspaper blogs were not sufficient for cited content. The content is allowed via [21] For Facebook/Flickr/Picassa/GooglePhotos the content I cited is not 'produced' by an individual, it is the host of a photo. If another editor could provide consensus that would be great. abstergo abstergo accendo (talk) 03:21, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Request to have photo of Governmental letter uploaded

[22]

I'm requesting a super user to upload this photo for the controversy section of the page. It's a request for money and verification of payment from the Venezuelan government to all government employees. (UNSIGNED)

Facebook is not a reliable source. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 07:49, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

For Facebook/Flickr/Picassa/GooglePhotos the content I cited is not 'produced' by an individual, it is the host of a photo. If another editor could provide consensus that would be great. 03:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC) Currently the URL of 'Facebook' is merely a host to media, i.e. YouTube is a host to video. Given that YouTube is also used as a citation here as are many photo sharing cites, I think you're mistaken in this regard. Thanks abstergo abstergo accendo (talk) 03:23, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

There is no proof at all this photograph is true. Furthermore, to be a controversy, it should have at least official declarations by both the government and the opposition; but it hasn't provoked a controversy on a national level. So, it's probably a fake. --Yeah 93 (talk) 22:35, 29 March 2013 (UTC) -Do you really mean that if the government doesn't acknowledge it, that it never happened? Could you cite me something to cite either that a controversy has to be nation wide, or cite that this didn't go nation wide? I seem to see 7,000 shares on that post alone, just saying. 98.252.50.93 (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Someone has been vandalizing this. What's going on?

The following is something a Maduro fan keeps deleting. This is no assertion from a blog or the like. We are talking about a real accussation from an elected deputy about Maduro.

"There have been criticisms among the opposition for what they consider nepotism from Maduro's wife, Cilia Flores. More than 16 relatives of hers were employed by the National Assembly when she became deputy."

--Periergeia (talk) 12:17, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

The way it's written seems like it's biased. Write it in a more concise and neutral way. --Yeah 93 (talk) 15:10, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

--I don't believe this sentence is biased at all. The title of 'Nepotism and Corruption' should probably have had the standard, euphemism of 'Hiring Policies' or etc.

---I support Periergeia's corruption additions and I am against the aggressive redaction of all the prior controversy portions, these newspapers are the best in Venezuela. --- 98.252.50.93 (talk) 02:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

---

What you consider biased or not is in itself absolutely biased. What counts here is that the accussations were official, they were carried out by an elected deputy of the National Assembly and those accussations were published in three different national newspapers. I did not say they were true, I reported them as should be done in Wikipedia.

I don't know why you want to keep the article of Maduro devoid of any critical aspect. --Periergeia (talk) 19:21, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

In either case, the restrictions of criticism here need to stop, the news media around the world is having a field day with Maduro because of all the outlandish things he or his regime is doing, stories which are negative, if you can find well sourced positive ones, then post them to talk for review. What is currently happening is that Dr.K and bbb23 are boxing out other editors, even when they post their comments in talk. In fact I have not seen Dr.K participate in talk unless it is to truncate literally half the talk page. The reality is that they are very well established editors, and they are throwing their weight around in a very ugly manner.98.252.50.93 (talk) 23:36, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

Maduro mobilizing the military for the 'revolution' during the election

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130403/lt-venezuela-election/

Quoting a military leader from that piece "The national armed forces will not fail Chavez," Molero said, according to state television. "Once elections are organized, we will honor his wishes and we will give the fascists a tough blow."

Venezuela's Constitution bans military officers from publicly promoting politicians or political parties. But in his 14 years in power, Chavez co-opted the armed forces' leadership to ensure loyalty to his socialist government, especially after he was briefly ousted in a coup in 2002.

- Although none of the editors here want to allow Spanish articles, I have three which show that Maduro gave out 20,000 SUVs to all the military commanders.

Maduro claims a Magical Parakeet Turned into Chavez, and Blessed him (Video)

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/agencia-efe/130403/opposition-leader-calls-mental-exam-maduro-after-bird-comments

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/03/nicolas-maduro-hugo-chavez-little-bird_n_3007965.html

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/maduro-chavez-bird-presidential/2013/04/02/id/497504

http://nbclatino.com/2013/04/03/acting-president-maduro-says-hugo-chavez-appeared-to-him-as-a-little-bird/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kkrSkCvL8i0

[23] [24] [25]

Request user's bbb23 and Dr.K extricate themselves from this article

I would request that BBB23 and Dr.K take a break from this article, as it's becoming quite apparent that your undos seem to occur only when negative information is being submitted, even when well cited. One can note this given the recent change of photo to a rare one, and photoshopped, of Maduro smiling. This change was not undone, even though it was not discussed in talk, and does not accurately represent the BLP. 98.252.50.93 (talk) 23:26, 5 April 2013 (UTC)

User:98.252.50.93 was blocked for 2 weeks.[26] Somedifferentstuff (talk) 13:09, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Very good Atlantic Piece on Maduro and Venezuela - Recommended to be Used in Piece

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/venezuelas-upcoming-election-wont-be-any-fairer-than-its-recent-ones/274881/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:109:0:6048:B1ED:F3C3:5638:4B2 (talk) 20:12, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

This article is very biased and could use an unbiased re-write from the ground up.

I am not Venezuelan, I came here to learn about the guy out of curiousity from a BBC article. I found a paragraph basically directly insulting the guy with a bunch of ridiculous attacks, which I removed. The page needs a lot more additional work as most, if not all of it, is very negative and is clearly biased against him. These articles are not supposed to be biased, not even Hitler's page reads as badly as this one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.186.223.233 (talk) 06:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

April 19, 2013

Maduro is still interim President, until his presidential inauguration on April 19, 2013. GoodDay (talk) 19:58, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 April 2013

As an election has taken place and he has been elected to serve until 2018, he isn't interim any more.--94.65.164.180 (talk) 12:31, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

 Not done: Other comment on this talk page indicates that there is no consensus for the requested edit at this time. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 14:49, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Objections to election results

John Kerry also called for a recount... and hinted that the U.S. might not recognize Mr. Maduro as the rightful leader. Mr. Maduro’s response was blunt: “We don’t care about your recognition,” he said, as UPI reported. “We have decided to be free and we will be free and independent, with or without you.” (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/18/venezuelan-president-elect-nicolas-maduro-tells-jo/#ixzz2QvWVT0Wt)

No recount was conducted. Venzuela's voting system is known to be the best in the world. http://elections.smartmatic.com/carter-the-electoral-system-in-venezuela-is-the-best-in-the-world

Well, that was according to Carter, which has been highly question. No wonder the link you provide is located in the site of Smartmatic company. Smartmatic has been in trouble in a lot of countries, including Belgium.

--Periergeia (talk) 20:54, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

173.228.79.133 (talk) 16:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

 Not done: That Maduro's election was controversial is already mentioned in the article, and expanded discussion on controversies surrounding Maduro's election would be more appropriate in the article about the election, not Maduro's own article. BryanG (talk) 06:34, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Maduro's assassination plot and Uribe

Someone removed my addition of BBC material about Maduro claiming the former president of Colombia, Uribe, is not worth mentioning. That is incredible. This is not a trivial thing at all. This is a serious accusation of a public figure - a head of state - against another internationally well-known politician. Uribe will now go legally against Maduro and this person consider this trivial, deletes it without even putting this to discussion?

What do we have here that this page has a censorship protecting Maduro from any statement that might put him in a critical light? If this goes on, the conflict in this page will go beyond Wikipedia and into the media: what standards are used to protect this page of Nicolás Maduro when those standards are not used for other people. --Periergeia (talk) 20:06, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Arrr the "censorship" card, always a winner (not). I happen to agree with Bbb23's removal, this is an encyclopedia and not a log of every news story about the guy. For more information have a read of WP:NOT. LGA _talk^edits 21:10, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Periergeia, did you actually read the BBC source? For example, this sentence: "He has alleged conspiracies against him since taking over from the late President Hugo Chavez and winning disputed elections last month." We are not here to provide Maduro with a platform to list all of his allegations against his enemies. Even if you added the denial by Uribe, which you did not bother to do, to make it more even-handed, it still would be just another accusation and another denial. Your censorship diatribe is fatuous at best. Wikipedia is not here to protect Maduro or to protect Uribe except to the extent mandated by WP:BLP. We are an encyclopedia, and this has almost zero encyclopedic value.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:04, 5 May 2013 (UTC)