Talk:2020 Nagorno-Karabakh ceasefire agreement: Difference between revisions
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[[File:Staged map of border changes in Karabakh as per 2020 Armenia- Azerbaijan Agreement.png|thumb|left|Map showing rules, including dates, for individual territories.]] |
[[File:Staged map of border changes in Karabakh as per 2020 Armenia- Azerbaijan Agreement.png|thumb|left|Map showing rules, including dates, for individual territories.]] |
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And there is another map: "Staged map of border changes in Karabakh as per 2020 Armenia- Azerbaijan Agreement.png", {{ping|Don-kun}} in your map, the unblocked transport arrow should better go to the south, not? [[User:TerraCyprus|TerraCyprus]] ([[User talk:TerraCyprus|talk]]) 02:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC) |
And there is another map: "Staged map of border changes in Karabakh as per 2020 Armenia- Azerbaijan Agreement.png", {{ping|Don-kun}} in your map, the unblocked transport arrow should better go to the south, not? [[User:TerraCyprus|TerraCyprus]] ([[User talk:TerraCyprus|talk]]) 02:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC) |
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:The third map has quite flawed borders, compare to the first two which use the same more detailed sources. No, the unblocked arrow should not (necessarily) go south. The agreement does not mention where the link(s) should be, neither that its only one. Even building new ones is part of the agreement, so it could literally be everywhere in Armenia (topography aside). That's why I choose to put the arrow in the middle. --[[User:Don-kun|Don-kun]] ([[User talk:Don-kun|talk]]) 05:50, 12 November 2020 (UTC) |
Revision as of 05:50, 12 November 2020
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Problems
This article seems like a needless separation of information that belongs on the 2020 Nagorno-Karabagh article -- This information hardly warrants an article of its own, at least not in the current form where the majority of text is simply just a point by point retelling of the points agreed upon. Eik Corell (talk) 12:12, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- KeepIt is a very important and historical agreement (not like the previous flimsy cease-fires) so it should be kept.Polmas (talk) 12:15, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- A ceasefire agreement that has ended a war (and may potentially induce to end a 30 year old conflict), that is going to change a lot the politics of Armenia and Azerbajan and the whole Caucasus in general and which may provoke the first major territorial change in many years looks pretty notable to me. Also, the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war article is already too long and crowded. Super Ψ Dro 12:22, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- I was just about to comment that the naming of the article was what threw me off initially, i.e that these weren't really established in the same way as the Bishkek Protocol, but I just noticed the new name and it all seems a little better now. Eik Corell (talk) 12:32, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- Since we have established a consensus for notability, I am removing the notability tag. Polmas (talk) 12:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- I was just about to comment that the naming of the article was what threw me off initially, i.e that these weren't really established in the same way as the Bishkek Protocol, but I just noticed the new name and it all seems a little better now. Eik Corell (talk) 12:32, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
- A ceasefire agreement that has ended a war (and may potentially induce to end a 30 year old conflict), that is going to change a lot the politics of Armenia and Azerbajan and the whole Caucasus in general and which may provoke the first major territorial change in many years looks pretty notable to me. Also, the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war article is already too long and crowded. Super Ψ Dro 12:22, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
Kelbajar rayon vs map
The article says that "The Republic of Armenia will return to Azerbaijan the Kelbajar rayon by November 15th 2020". However, the map in this article only includes the western part of the Kalbajar District in hatched colors (to be returned to Azerbaijan), while it depicts the eastern part (the part that was part of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast) in light green (hosting Russian peacekeeping force). Which one is correct? --67.160.159.188 (talk) 02:55, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
The map
Cordyceps-Zombie Hi, I've removed the map as the details about control are not known yet. The only thing we know is withdrawal from 3 surrounding districts. The actual military control of Azerbaijan is also unknown, therefore we need to wait until the details are cleared and an official map is provided. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 08:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Deployment of observation points at Karabakh
Russian Ministry of Defense published map of deployment of observation points at Karabakh. This map could be used in the article and for updating the war map. https://t.me/SputnikArmenia/10137
According to the armistice "the parties stop at the positions they occupy." And according to the map part of the Karabakh south to the Shushi is ceded to Azeris. This implies that Azerbaijan had control over those area. --Yakamoz51 (talk) 14:23, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Oppose Sputnik is not a reliable source. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 23:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Map
I have created a map of the agreement, 2020 Artsakh ceasefire map.svg. As with all war-time maps it is based on the best available information, and will evolve with the situation. @CuriousGolden removed the map, stating that "[we must] wait until an official map is released". My opinion would be that it should go in the article, possibly with a disclaimer. Any other opinions? Mapeh (talk) 18:08, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hello, details of the peace deal are not known yet. Also, your map shows the Azerbaijani gains to Shusha as a one long road, while the official maps released by Russia show that all of the southern half is controlled by Azerbaijan. — CuriousGolden (T·C) 18:15, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- I based it on the map in the main article on the war (QarabaghWarMap(2020).svg), but can obviously be updated just as that map was. Mapeh (talk) 18:27, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- @CuriousGolden:
details of the peace deal are not known yet
- they are right in the article, points 1 to 9. TerraCyprus (talk) 02:33, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- I too made a map ;-) Which more covers the hole area and I hope is more in line with the actual text of the ceasefire statement. I also included where the information is unclear. --Don-kun (talk) 21:50, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- Wait for official boundaries by either governments. As of now, many publications provide significantly different maps. --► Sincerely: SolaVirum 23:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
- The maps are in the section for Terms of agreement, no need to wait. TerraCyprus (talk) 02:32, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
And there is another map: "Staged map of border changes in Karabakh as per 2020 Armenia- Azerbaijan Agreement.png", @Don-kun: in your map, the unblocked transport arrow should better go to the south, not? TerraCyprus (talk) 02:44, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
- The third map has quite flawed borders, compare to the first two which use the same more detailed sources. No, the unblocked arrow should not (necessarily) go south. The agreement does not mention where the link(s) should be, neither that its only one. Even building new ones is part of the agreement, so it could literally be everywhere in Armenia (topography aside). That's why I choose to put the arrow in the middle. --Don-kun (talk) 05:50, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
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