User talk:Durova

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Question

Okay so we setup a new poll here, but can anon users vote? (I'm referring to 138.25.252.110's vote.) Zarbat 05:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

They can try. I guess the admin who tallies the responses will look at the anon's history. This seems to be a unique IP with a modest contribution history over quite a few months. I really don't know their standards there - it's hard to call the play from this distance. Durova^Charge! 05:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

11-M

Hi Durova,

Just for the record, I answer Randroide comments,

1)The quotes are not from a blog but are from a forum in the official website of the conspirationists so one that heavily supports Pedro J. I took it from there because if were not true would have been contradicted by the administrators who are known as fanatic supporters of the "cause".

2)Randroide was simulating that he was sincerely interested in the issue so I tried to help him references and tips. I should have not been so moron since he was only trying to evade himself from the fact that El Mundo investigations are completely unsupported by any world class newspaper execept one phrase in one article in the Guardian. Anyway this issue is completely unrelated with the article and I named just to give some context. Randroide engage inmediately as a way to evade.

3)I am a person who normally works with books. If required I can offer books that explain the process that leads to the coup d'etat in 1981 and the implication of LM Anson that is well known here. The problem is that I suspect that Randroide insistence on this is just another way to evade from the main question so I will no be so moron again to engage.

Randroide is trying to use you as you probably have noticed.--Igor21 16:01, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Forums aren't an appropriate source either, but books from reputable (non-vanity) publishers would be fine. It looks like the editors on this page could use some outside input about reliable sources. Not having visited Spain and knowing only basic Spanish, my advice has its limits. I strongly recommend an article content WP:RFC. Regards, Durova^Charge! 16:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The quotes about Pedro J opinions in the 80s about dirty war against terrorists were published in a magazine and it is given the name of it and the date of publication. Pedro J was the director of the magazine. The forum was not what gives the veracity but just a reference for people accesing instantly. And as I said, in the heavily ideologized website where this forum is, a false and inconvenient statement of one their heroes would not have survived ten minutes.

Regarding LM Anson I will give the source in his own article from fully reliable books to not allow Randroide in his escape from what is being discussed in 11-M. Since Anson's newspaper is just copying El Mundo, his credibility (as low as it is) is not relevant. In fact he left the newspaper some months ago and now works in El Mundo.

I think your help have been unvaluable by establishing that not any published thing in a newspaper is automatically gospel. I will continue proving that El Mundo is doing investigation not supported by facts and that contradicts primary sources thus being of not use here except for "alternative theories" section as has been done in 9/11 with this kind of material. I will read RFC. Thanks. --Igor21 16:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

That post makes me doubt that you understand what I've been saying: it is inappropriate to link to a forum just because one editor considers that more convenient than a proper citation. Likewise, if a given newspaper is generally respected as a reliable source, then Wikipedia does not pick and choose which of its stories are reliable (unless other reliable sources subsequently debunked a particular story). Durova^Charge! 16:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Should I understand that a newspaper article should be quoted even when evidently contradicts the primary source that is also accesible? Should I understand that a single newspaper that has been the one to create the story must be quoted even when nobody else believes such story?--Igor21 17:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyedit that question just a little bit and it would make a good WP:RFC article request for comment introduction. Durova^Charge! 17:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

F1 race results

Thanks - sorry to have to raise it again. 4u1e 18:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Not a problem. Please add any new developments to the existing report. That would help another administrator to address the problem if I happen to be unavailable. Because these are unregistered IP addresses it would be inappropriate to impose a permanent ban. Let's hope that a month long block discourages this editor, but I'd be more than willing to renew it (or possibly extend as far as three months) if the problem crops up again. Regards, Durova^Charge! 18:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Proper places

Hello.

User:Deathrocker, in his talkpage, is claiming I behaved bad (I am referring to his comment against the 48 hours block). My old "friend" Kingjeff is also keeping on claiming that I edit in "bad faith" (see here for some of the other cases in which he called my edits "bad faith"). Where is the correct place to answer to their allegations? I can't keep on checking their edits to defend myself, but at the same time I cannot afford to let them attack me without countering their false (in my opinion) claims.

Best regards Panarjedde 21:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I've asked them to raise the matter at WP:RFI if they decide to pursue it. So far they haven't. You might want to bookmark that page. Durova^Charge! 23:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Amended RfC comments

Hi Durova,

Thanks for your amended RfC comments. I tried to explain in the PAIN - but maybe didn't do a good job - that I was under the impression that ever since the Encyclopedia Dramatica controversy, off-Wiki attacks were being taken much more seriously. I also have seen quite a AfD's where an editor pointed out that other editors were soliciting votes off-Wiki, (meatpuppetry) and had never seen anyone object to that documentation as being innappropriate content to post on-Wiki.. Considering all that, I thought that PAIN was an appropriate avenue to pursue, but I guess since there were no corresponding on-Wiki attacks DIRECTLY associated with the off-Wiki attacks, there was no proper place to complain about such an incident. - F.A.A.F.A. 23:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

If the attacks occurred only off Wikipedia then the proper thing to do is to raise concerns with the administrators of the other website. I would have looked into the query if you had chosen to supplement that with evidence of Wikipedia personal attacks, but you chose not to do so. I don't think this needs going over again because I've already explained it several times. If you need someone to consult on site policies and standards then I recommend Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user. Durova^Charge! 23:30, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:RFI

WP:RFI seems to be more about direct vandalism and not bad faith editing. Kingjeff 00:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's a content dispute then that board won't resolve it, but if there's been misconduct and rules breaking then it should help straighten things out. RFI is for investigations - things that go into too much depth for WP:AN/I. If it's mostly about content then check out Wikipedia:Dispute resolution. Regards, Durova^Charge! 06:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Waldorf Education

Durova, I'm sorry I missed this comment:

If you're serious about the allegation that one editor's financial conflict of interest affects the article then I hope you can present supporting evidence. If you do have that evidence - and you may quote me as necessary - then in my opinion as an administrator the appropriate step would be to open a request at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration. Note that I have only read your prose summary of the situation, not actually seen whatever evidence you may have, so this is a conditional recommendation. The dispute appears unlikely to resolve through lesser measures. DurovaCharge! 23:24, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I have evidence. HGilbert is ... (deleted) ... Please have a look and advise me what to do. Thanks! Pete K 04:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Please open an ArbCom request and exercise discretion about another user's identifying personal information. An arbitration clerk can advise you on the proper procedure for providing that sort of evidence. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration. Regards, Durova^Charge! 06:28, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, sorry. Would it be OK to simply ask him to withdraw from editing voluntarily? I don't have a lot of confidence that this would happen, but if presented with the conflict of interest argument, he might see how this appears to others. Would you consider mentioning this to him? Pete K 14:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

It's certainly all right to suggest it. Try citing Wikipedia:Conflict of interest or perhaps (depending on the details) WP:VANITY. Durova^Charge! 03:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

If you wish to suggest that Wikipedia bans doctors from editing articles on medicine, scientists from editing articles on science, teachers from editing articles on education, and so on - because they all have a "financial interest" in the success of the subject in question - well, this is an interesting idea. It must be noted that most encyclopedias actually seek out people with expertise in a subject, rather than people with no experience therein.

Also see WP:VANITY#COI_in_POV_disputes, which suggests that in cases of a POV dispute, "it may be easy to make claims about conflict of interest. Don't do it. This is negative advice, but the existence of conflicts of interest as a fact of life here does not mean that assume good faith is past its sell-by-date. Quite the opposite." Hgilbert 02:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

If a medical doctor edited a Wikipedia article so that it read like a public relations release for that particular doctor's medical practice or a university professor edited an article to make it resemble promotional literature for that professor's university then my advice would be the same. A Waldorf school is not just an alternative to public schools or another independent school; its curriculum and philosophy proceed from the worldview and the insights into the nature of the child that Rudolf Steiner has given us in Anthroposophy. That phrase and many others like it violate WP:NOT and WP:NPOV; insistence that the article read this way violates WP:OWN. As an administrator I strongly recommend you reconsider that position and collaborate in accordance with site policies because I would support a request for arbitration related to Waldorf education. Having read the above post, I am now considering opening that request myself. Durova^Charge! 12:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Durova, it would be great if you did open the request. There has been so much of this sort of thing already from this group, it would look retaliatory if I opened the request. Inability to get a NPOV past the brochure language pushers has caused the Waldorf Education article to be stalled for months now. Pete K 15:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

That passage is "brochure language" because it was taken from the Waldorf companies internet "brochure". It was used in this article by another editor who was critical diff and complained about "anthroposophy" people and how too much stuff is all covered up. diff Pete K changed it to put his own opinion in there or own complaint about what school websites do or don't say, diff, without any source. But you think the part that is sourced has to come out because its too "brochure like" when the section is about what the school literature discloses. Take out the criticism about what it dose or doesen't in school "brochure language" first if you don't want examples of the "brochure language" used in the article. Too many are pointing fingers where they shouldnt'.Venado 18:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

My post

What disturbs you about it? Arrow740 06:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Diff, please. Durova^Charge! 13:45, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you please tell me clearly what bothers you about my post? Also where is the personal attack noticeboard where I can read the complaint that was made against me? Arrow740 07:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I found the noticeboard. However I still request that you explain your post. I have a question for you. Let us assume (for the sake of discussion) that itaqallah is a bully. Am I allowed to say that to people he bullies? Also, none of his posts to the noticeboard constituted a "slur" against Islam. I said: "The fact that your religion forces critics to use the internet as their medium..." Is there something untrue about this? The internet critics who are cited in the articles itaqallah and I have been struggling over receive hundreds of death threats from Muslims. Arrow740 07:40, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I'd be glad to explain it if you would give me a link to the relevant post. Durova^Charge! 00:24, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your input

Thank you for taking part in my RfA. The RfA was not successful, mostly because I did a pretty bad job of presenting myself. I'll run again sometime in the next few months, in the hopes that some will reconsider.

In the meantime, one of the projects I'm working on is A Wikimedia Administrator's Handbook. This is a wikibook how-to guide intended to help new administrators learn the ropes, as well as to simply "demystify" what adminship entails. If you are an administrator, please help out with writing it, particularly on the technical aspects of the tools. Both administrators and non-administrators are welcome to help link in and sort all of the various policies regarding the use of these tools on wikipedia in particular (as well as other projects: for example, I have almost no experience with how things work on wiktionary or wikinews). Users who are neither familiar with policy or the sysop tools could be of great help by asking questions about anything that's unclear. The goal is to get everything together in one place, with a narrative form designed to anticipate the reader's next question.

A second project, related but not entailed, is a book on wikimedia in general, with a history of how various policies evolved over time, interesting trivia (e.g., what the heck was "wikimoney" about?), and a history of how the wikimedia foundation itself came about and the larger issues that occurred during its history (such as the infamous "Spanish Fork").

Again, thanks for your input on the RfA, and thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide for the handbook. --SB_Johnny|^talk|_books 12:58, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

As you can see, my time has been spread very thin lately. Post here with specific requests about how to prepare for your next RFA and I'll do my best to coach. Regards, Durova^Charge! 03:16, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

You helped choose Islam as this week's WP:AID winner

Dev920 13:11, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

User John Spikowski

Thank you for your help. We already tried to talk to him several times (in fact this goes now on for more then 2 years outside of Wikipedia). We also made attempts to resolve this on Wikipedia like [1] but he refused to see the facts (as in his recent attack). He decelerated peace just to start the fight again. His "Group" consists of only one person and he tries to make our lives as hard as possible. For example he removed our mailinglist from Nabble [2] where he is now banned and he has his "forum" on his site where he and his sock puppets "talk" [3]. alicia, JS and admin are the same person. I am aware that these are outside issues but I just wanted to show you that he is not a normal troll, because he will not go away (we already ignored him for 3 month). Please tell us what we can do. I am tiered of the daily look on the watchlist just to find out that he vandalized (as [4]) the page of PanoTools, removed links [5] (24.17.56.230 is his IP address) or started a new article to flame [6]). Any advice would help. Thx. --Wuz 14:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

In that case a guideline worth looking into is Wikipedia:Disruptive editing. The WP:RFC I suggested at WP:PAIN could help one way or another: either by (one would hope) breaking the deadlock with fresh input from uninvolved editors or by establishing consensus for further administrative action. I suggest if you need to follow up (and you probably do) open your next report at WP:RFI. That's really designed for the more complex situations such as this. Best wishes, Durova^Charge! 01:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

hi

hi um im bored want to talk about sometnig like, how the heck do you put a photo on your user page reply to user talk: Yes my name is sarah please.

Wikipedia:How to edit a page. Durova^Charge! 12:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)