Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Kww 3

Kww

Voice your opinion (talk page) (29/11/2); scheduled to end 23:44, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Nomination

Kww (talk · contribs)

I am proud to introduce Kww to the RfA community. Some of you may know him, as he has had two prior RfAs, I won't spend much time discussing them, I believe he will in his acceptance and statement, but I will note that on each of the two times he was unsuccessful (although receiving a majority each time, consensus was not achieved) he has taken his licking and gone back to the serious work which he has done in many areas of WP, from vandalism prevention to his invaluable work on charts, which, since I am involved in several band articles, I've taken advantage of on more than one occasion. He's also a strong article builder; he and I worked together on Natalee Holloway, a controversial and difficult project which we and AuburnPilot took to FA and then to the Main Page. Whenever they show that movie about her, the article gets about 10,000 hits, so it is a valuable article for WP. Since the last RfA, Kww has waited six months and continued his work. He will be a tremendous net positive with the mop and I strongly urge the community to give him the equipment to clean up that mess in Aisle 12. This is my first nomination, and I really believe it should succeed.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:05, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I accept the nomination.—Kww(talk) 23:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

First off, no one can help but notice the little "3" there on the nomination title, so it needs explanation. Yes, I've gone through this twice before. The first was around 50%, the second was around 60%. Both RFAs failed primarily due to a statement I made in April 2008, and a subsequent attempt to topic ban me from all arts related articles. Those events are real. I can't state that they didn't happen, so I won't. I am wholly responsible for the wreckage that is my past.

As for my sentiments, they were incredibly poorly phrased. I should never have used the word "vandal" in that context. Still, the point I actually intended to make was valid: people shouldn't pick and choose which guidelines and policies they will follow, and which they will not. If they think a guideline needs changed, they should attempt to get it changed. If they think a policy needs changed, they should attempt to get it changed. They should not routinely ignore a policy or guideline because they find it unpleasant. I don't care much whether we are talking WP:BLP or WP:N, chronic violators are a problem.

The blocks in my block-log are quite old. The Sept 30th, 2008 one is easy: an admin noticed a series of reversions, and did not notice that the thing I was reverting was an explicit exemption to the 3RR rule: the other editor was making obvious violations of non-free content policies. You'll notice he reversed the block and apologized quite quickly, with the explanation in the unblock as "my error".

The older block is a tad harder to explain. I discussed it with User:AuburnPilot, and here is the link to his talk page discussion. I'll let that discussion speak for itself.

To recap my editing thrusts: I'm not heavy on the content-creation side of Wikipedia. I've worked on one featured article (Natalee Holloway), and worked very hard to get What the Bleep Do We Know!? beaten into reasonable shape. The first article that I worked on heavily was Humanzee, and the first one I created was chromosomal polymorphism. Looking at chromosomal polymorphism today, I'm a bit ashamed of my work, and may take some time to improve that one.

In terms of editing difficulty, What the Bleep Do We Know!? was probably the most difficult article I've ever worked on, and I became aware of the pseudoscience issues on Wikipedia as a result. I was truly astonished at how hard people would work to try to portray nonsense as defensible. I don't directly work much on pseudoscience articles, but I do monitor a few to make sure that they don't turn completely into support of nonsense. I'm not well liked by the pseudoscience crowd.

I spend most of my time in what I think of as "damage prevention". I scan for vandalism, unsourced material, poorly-sourced material, guideline violations and policy violations and revert or fix such edits. Most of my effort in the last year has been on record charts, which is truly a problem area. What I noticed was that the charts had degenerated into essentially random lists of countries and numbers. There wasn't widespread agreement as to which charts were good and which were bad, and there weren't any standard places to verify figures, making it difficult to detect and repair vandalism. I started a discussion about creating a consolidated list of charts to be avoided, which ultimately resulted in WP:BADCHARTS. I produced the bulk of WP:Record charts/sourcing guide, aka WP:GOODCHARTS, which worked at it from the positive direction. 15,000 edits later, and the record charts across Wikipedia are in much better shape. This is work I'm proud of, and it illustrates what I think is the right way to tackle major problems: gain consensus as to direction, and then proceed quickly and efficiently. For those that concern themselves about such things, all my edits, including those, have been done manually: no scripts, bots, Twinkles, or Huggles. I'm currently working on using templates to generate the charts that will allow bots to automatically detect and repair chart vandalism. If I can get that to work, I think the music area will be in much better shape.

My first edits to Humanzee were done as an IP. I'm also Kww on commons and Dutch wikipedia. I have edited on some of other wikis as 190.4.72.45 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). Apparently once here, too, but I fixed that quickly:[1].

Administratively, I have always focused on vandalism and sock-puppetry, and expect to continue that focus into the future.

As for administrative contributions, I'll let them speak for themselves. These tables show my activities on the major areas (SSP, AFD, ANI, AIV) over the last year. These are manually constructed, and believed complete. Let me know if I missed anything.

• My participation in AFD discussions since October 2008 is here
• My participation at WP:SSP is here
• My participation at RFPP since October 2008 is here
• My participation at WP:AN and WP:ANI is here
• My participation at WP:AIV is here

—Kww(talk) 23:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Questions for the candidate

Dear candidate, thank you for offering to serve Wikipedia as an administrator. It is recommended that you answer these optional questions to provide guidance for participants:

1. What administrative work do you intend to take part in?

A: Pretty much what I do today: revert vandalism and keep the Disney and music articles from turning into a quagmire of blog-sourced gossip. I use WP:AIV, WP:SPI and WP:RFPP extensively today, and that's where I will probably focus. Socking is an area where I am specifically hampered by not having administrative tools: right now, I can't even see where someone has made deleted contributions, much less see the contents of them to use them in putting together evidence.

2. What are your best contributions to Wikipedia, and why?

A: I think my best contributions to date have been WP:GOODCHARTS and WP:BADCHARTS. Imposing some order on such a problematic area was sorely needed, and I suspect that this will be my most lasting influence on Wikipedia.

3. Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or have other users caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?

A: What the Bleep Do We Know!? represented the peak of stress for me. There is something about that article that brings out the worst in editors from both sides of the pseudoscience conflict. Ultimately, it took a strategy of just going through the lead sentence by sentence, and getting everyone to agree on a version that didn't make them angry enough to revert it, and making sure everyone understood which policies would prohibit and allow what. Once people focused on making sure each sentence conformed to policy, we got to a version that no one felt compelled to revert. We put the change in with {{edit-protected}} macros, and then left the thing protected for six months. Ugly and bloody, but it worked.

The one I wish I had handled better was Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Sadi Carnot. I allowed myself to get goaded into anger. I learned from that. I may still get angry at times, but you'd have a hard time seeing it from the words I write.

That whole surreal arbcom experience.

Of course, I would be lying if I said that WP:Requests for adminship/Kww and WP:Requests for adminship/Kww 2 weren't pretty stressful as well. Not much I could do there but stay calm.

Question from Peregrine Fisher

4. Are you going to close fiction AfDs? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

A: AFD closing in general isn't an area that I'm going to rush into: I'm well aware of my reputation as an exclusionist, and I know that the first AFDs I close are going to head straight to DRV just because of that reputation. That said, I won't make campaign promises: you will have to evaluate me as if I will participate in all activities. There is no method to hold any admin candidate to any promise he makes during RFA, and I won't make empty promises.

What you should take note of is that I am a rule follower: it's what I argue for, it's what I do. You won't find me closing AFDs in any direction where my closure isn't according to consensus, as reflected in the AFD discussion, with the arguments weighted in accordance to guidelines and policies. Any AFD I close, it would be with confidence that if that AFD were taken to DRV, my decision would survive the DRV process. Not closing AFDs that way is a waste of everyone's time.

It's not as if I simply dislike the existence of articles. Take The Paradiso Girls, for example. I argued for deletion at WP:Articles for deletion/The Paradiso Girls. When events changed so that an article could be created that met guidelines, I went to RFPP to undo the creation salting and notified the creator of the original article that he could create a new version if he chose.—Kww(talk) 02:49, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Questions from ArcAngel

5. What is the difference between a ban and a block?

A:Blocks are a technical measure, used against an account to prevent it from editing. Bans are directed against a person, and are a statement that that person, regardless of method of access, cannot edit.—Kww(talk) 11:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

6. When should cool down blocks be used and why?

A:Policy says not to use them, and I tend to agree. A block does little or nothing to make someone calmer, and tends towards the opposite effect.—Kww(talk) 11:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

7. What are/is the most important policy(s) regarding administrative functions?

A: As a policy statement, WP:ADMIN is the guiding policy. As a concept, I think the most important thing is even-handedness. An admin has to enforce the same rules the same way over people and articles he likes as he does over people and articles he dislikes. We're all human, and we all have likes and dislikes, but you shouldn't be able to detect them from an adminstrative log.—Kww(talk) 11:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Question from Hobit

8: Picking an AfD nomination of your out at pseudo random (that list you created was quite helpful, thanks!) could you examine this AfD? Do you feel that the article should have been deleted? Is the current article one you feel should be deleted?

A: The reason I nominated it has been corrected: it was a copyright violation, now it is not. Judging from Google, it appears that the article could be improved further to provide some audience reception figures. Not much more than that, though, so I could never be enthusiastic about keeping it. It falls into the general class of TV show articles, now: I wouldn't nominate it for deletion, and if it came up for AFD, I wouldn't bother to comment.—Kww(talk) 12:38, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Question from Leaky Caldron

9: Do you think existing accountability measures are adequate to protect the community from aberrant Admin. behaviour and if not, what could you do as an individual to improve the situation? Leaky Caldron 17:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

A: The primary missing thing is a standardized admin recall system. I believe one should be developed, and applied to all admins. Our current system of voluntary recalls run according to privately generated standards that are only interpreted by vested parties doesn't serve anyone well. That said, I haven't seen a proposal that didn't seem subject to being gamed. If I saw a promising one, I would work to fine-tune it and achieve consensus for it.—Kww(talk) 17:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

follow up question. No plans for unilateral action then? Leaky Caldron 18:01, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Anyone that attempts unilateral action around here gets some body part handed to them on a platter. May be immediately, may be eventually, but it is inevitable.—Kww(talk) 18:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Question (pro forma) from Hullaballoo Wolfowitz

10. At the beginning of your acceptance statement, you say that support in your most recent RFA "was around 70%," which would be on the borderline of succeeding. However, the actual count, as far as I can see, was 76/49/9, which would be only 60%, well below the success level. Have I missed something? (I ask this because, in deciding on a !vote here, I'm inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to a candidate who'd reached the borderline level of support previously, followed by an extended period of problem-free editing; but would be more cautious about supporting a previously controversial candidate who hadn't reached that level of support before.) Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

A: Corrected. As I get older, my ability to do math in my head fades.—Kww(talk) 18:40, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

General comments

RfAs for this user:

• Requests for adminship/Kww
• Requests for adminship/Kww 2
• Requests for adminship/Kww 3
• Requests for adminship/Kww 3/Bureaucrat discussion
• Requests for adminship/Kww 4

• Links for Kww: Kww (talk · contribs · deleted · count · AfD · logs · block log · lu · rfar · spi)
• Edit summary usage for Kww can be found here.
• Promote Kww
• Editing summary for Kww can be found on the talkpage.

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Please keep discussion constructive and civil. If you are unfamiliar with the nominee, please thoroughly review Special:Contributions/Kww before commenting.

Discussion

• General editing stats have been posted on the talk page. –Katerenka (talk • contribs) 23:52, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Support

1. As nom.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:05, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
2. Should've been granted +sysop back in April. --Dylan620 (contribs, logs, review) 23:43, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
3. Kww is capable of showing responsibility for his actions. He out in the open explains what he did wrong, instead of trying to bury it. Well done. @harej 23:56, 9 October 2009 (UTC)
4. Support per nom. I supported the first one, and somehow missed the second. Tan | 39 00:06, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
5. Support Per Harej, don't know you well but the your statement and answer to Q3 make me feel as though you won't make the same mistake and will be a net positive as a sysop.--Giants27(c|s) 00:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
6. Support I agree with harej. I knew that Kww had issues in the past, although the details missed me. His acceptance statement and Q3 laid out the past conflicts very nicely, and I appreciate the simple open honesty about it. He's learned from mistakes, and to put it into perspective, the two main incidents happened a long time ago (the first in late 2007, and the second in May 2008). That's plenty of time for one to learn and prove themselves through positive contribs and good judgement. Kww has accomplished just that. JamieS93 00:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
7. Support - I've seen some of Kww's work, and I think I've even worked with him on one thing or another and don't remember anything negative. The "essay" written above is honest and open about past mistakes and I don't hold the past against him. The answers to questions are concise and accurate. I'll support unless someone gives a very good reason not to later in the RfA. -- Atama頭 00:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
8. Without reservation A more full explanation later (as needed), but Kww is sincere, dedicated and knowledgeable. He understands how to go about improving articles both directly and indirectly and he is reflective on his mistakes when he makes them. This is what we need. An admin who is forthright, helpful and not brittle. Protonk (talk) 01:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
9. Support No present concerns. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 01:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
10. Support. HiDrNick! 01:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    You have not provided any reason. Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 16:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Reasons are not required for supporting. Majorly talk 16:10, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Indeed, but those in need of convincing can check out my nomination statement on his first RFA. Better late than never, after all. HiDrNick! 16:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    I am just not persuaded by that rationale. Take care! --A Nobody^{My talk} 16:21, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

11. Support I encourage anyone who opposed the first two RFAs to join me in changing their mind -- I will admit I felt at the time of the first RFA that he had something of a battleground mentality, but I see no evidence that this is still the case. WP:GOODCHARTS and WP:BADCHARTS is a brilliant example of someone working to find a third road. It is an effort that is neither deletionist nor inclusionist, but one that creatively, constructively and non-partisanly addressed a problem across thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of articles. It is the sort of effort we should applaud and Kww is the sort of editor we should have as admin. --JayHenry (talk) 01:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
12. I went neutral last time in response to points made by DGG and A Nobody, but those aren't issues now. Good work. - Dank (push to talk) 03:07, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
13. Against what I said on his talk page, I decided to look closer at him... mistakes happen, people grow. 18 months has passed, so I'll support at this juncture.---Balloonman ^{NO! I'm Spartacus!} 03:49, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
14. Support. Easily one of the most dedicated and knowledgeable users around. Kww has become a great asset to the community and I believe he will become even more so with the tools. — ξ^xplicit 04:09, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
15. Support per the improvements noted by others in support and also per the diffs provided by Ikip. Crafty (talk) 09:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Could you explain that last part please? Hobit (talk) 13:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Sure. Far from persuading me that Kww is unsuitable for Adminship, Ikip's diffs crystalised my support for this RfA. I was leaning towards support and they just sealed the deal. Crafty (talk) 19:12, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

16. I'm trying to take a Wiki-break and have seen some success so far, but one simple support won't hurt, will it? Kww will do just fine. Master&Expert (Talk) 09:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
17. I still wonder why he didn't pass the last one! ceranthor 10:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
18. Should have passed previously. Pmlineditor ∞ 11:00, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
19. No recent causes for concern.  pablo_hablo. 11:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
20. Anything recent, opposers? Almost a year is a long time in wiki-standards. Otherwise, I have to default to support. Majorly talk 13:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
21. Support again. Hiberniantears (talk) 13:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
22. Support because there's really no compelling reason to oppose. The objections below seem largely based on speculation and other various flimsy arguments rather than definitive evidence, so in the spirit of AGF I support. –Juliancolton | ^Talk 13:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
23. Support per Harej. Sluggo | Talk 14:16, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
24. Support per my last support. KWW meets my criteria for an admin. Kww shows a solid understanding of Wikipedia guidelines and policies, particularly in dealing with BLPs and vandalism. His dedication to dealing with the whole FICT issue and not go mad over the continued willingness of a handful of people not to compromise is a good sign to me. Actually has a good, firm, and proper understanding of what a deletion discussion is, and we need more admins who do rather than the ones who just count keeps vs delete and goes from there. Yes, he can abrasive at times, but he has continued to work on improving this and I have no problems with an admin who is human so long as they work on correcting that flaw ;-) None of us are perfect, and I don't believe Kww would abuse his tools. Certainly having more admins willing to deal with anything Disney is an extra perk, and recognizing the serious problem with have with that sock puppet is a perk. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 14:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
25. Support - I misread those diffs as being from 09, if nothing more recent can be found, I can do nothing but conclude that such issues are resolved. — neuro 14:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
26. Support. Good answers to Q1 &4. PhilKnight (talk) 16:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
27. Support per nom. 88.108.233.96 (talk) 17:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
28. Support. I don't care what happened in 2008. 2009 looks good enough for me. Irbisgreif (talk) 17:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
29. Support I am satisfied that this candidate will not break anything, and am satisfied with the answers to my questions - candidate seems knowledgeable, and we need more peeps like that around. ArcAngel (talk) 17:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
30. Is being opposed by all the right people. Badger Drink (talk) 19:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Insulting a dozen editors is a pretty lame reason to support. Candidates should stand on their own, not on the merits/demirits of the others in the discussion. Fastily and I, for example, both oppose in this RfA, but support in Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Tcncv#Support, so are you going to oppose because "the right people" support there? Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 19:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Indeed they should be left to stand on their own, and not be treated as a proxy for interminable wars over marginal content. In other news, I'm glad to see that you've made a full and timely recovery. Protonk (talk) 19:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Thanks; it is good to not feel sick any more. Happy editing! --A Nobody^{My talk} 19:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    As an opposer, I have to take exception to Badger's comment as being overly hostile. This is a serious issue, and I don't think snarks are appropriate to this debate. Yes, my own oppose was indeed strongly-worded, but I took care to give my reasoning and the reasoning I agree with. Here is where the line should be drawn in RfA discussion, at least in my view. Jusdafax 19:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    I totally agree with you, his words are hostile and combative. Protonk (talk) 19:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

31. Support per Badger Drink. Ya'll tried this same tactic of dredging up ancient history from before a previous RFA on me, and it is not cool. Some users have the perseverance to actually listen to the criticisms from their previous RFAs and learn from them. How is it that a certain crowd is willing to assume good faith and keep almost any article, but perpetually oppose someone they have had a disagreement with. KWW seems to have a strong understanding of the admin approach to decision making, which is based on an understanding of Wikipedia policies and current consensus, not personal feelings. I trust him to use the tools. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:30, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    As I note below, my concern is based not on behavior before the last RfA, but from this very month. Editors who create and argue to keep episode articles are still in October 2009 are dissmissed as ignorable. How can we trust someone to be neutral when closing AfDs if a group of hundreds, maybe even thousands of editors who contribute in good faith are just ignored outright. Best, --A Nobody^{My talk} 19:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    What he is saying with that remark is that we should follow current policy and not our own feelings. That is exactly what an admin should do. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    He is dismissing advocates of such articles as a "small minority", which is factually incorrect given the sheer number of unique accounts and IPs who create and work on such articles and who come here to read them. The other concern with that comment is that it is saying we should follow one interpretation of the policy, not necessarily the only reasonable interpretation. In this particular case, it concerns an article that could be merged/redirected instead of redlinked per WP:PRESERVE or better yet could have been improved to include out of universe development information from DVD commentary and reception information from reviews per WP:BEFORE. Put simply, we should not adhere to so strict an interpretation of one disputed policy at the expense of ignoring others. Best, --A Nobody^{My talk} 20:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    I don't badger opposes, but hopefully one comment in the support side based on an argument from someone named "Badger" will be acceptable. WP:NOT#PLOT is policy. People are free to say that it should not be policy, and their voice should not be ignored when they do so.

    I would also point out that in the last year, I have participated in ten fiction AFDs. Ten. Out of 180. Of those ten, four were WP:CRYSTAL violations and two were hoaxes. To argue that I am participating in some kind of battle in fiction AFDs is also fallacious.—Kww(talk) 20:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

32. Support One or two opposes make a reasonable point. Most, however, don't - dragging up diffs from over a year ago assumes bad faith that the user can modify their editing - and some don't give any reasons at all, and can be safely ignored. In the end - does Kww have a solid grasp of policy, and would Kww abuse the tools? To the first, I believe so, and to the second, I very much doubt it. Black Kite 19:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    This is from earlier this month, not over a year ago. Best, --A Nobody^{My talk} 19:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

33. Support. I see nothing which leads me to believe that Kww would abuse the tools (in fact, quite the opposite). The reasons given in the various oppose opinions are not convincing. Kww has shown a solid grasp of policies and guidelines, and I think would do a good job as an admin. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 19:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Strong oppose From failed Kww 2 This intolerant statement[2] displays the type of temperament that wikipedia should not have in an admin. Kww called for editors to be blocked for bringing an issue back to Arbcom again.[3] "Suffering fools gladly" is an important skill, and one that I agree that SA is deficient in. It always helps to see a clear path towards being rid of the fools, and that's the most important thing we lack."[4]
   From failed Kww 1, more quotes about Kww's unwillingness to comprimise: "I'm pretty a much a "take no hostages" kind of guy on that topic. No exceptions. I would happily treat people creating such articles as vandals, as opposed to editors, and honestly believe that to be the case."[5] These uncompromising views make Kww have a major unwillingness to step away from fiction in specific and inclusion/deletionism debates.
   This intolerant behavior and battleground mentality shows there was very good reasons why Kww's first two RFAs failed. Ikip (talk) 07:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Comment Just providing dates for those quotes: August 2008, December 2008, December 2008, and April 2008.—Kww(talk) 11:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   The second quote is also from DGG not KWW. Also, is this behavior current? You are reaching back a year an a half for some of these quotes.---Balloonman ^{NO! I'm Spartacus!} 16:28, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Several editors went back that same amount of time in the last two failed Kww RFAs. The most recent evidence was 10 months ago, in December 2008. Unless Kww had an epiphany, and Kww's current editing behavior does not show this at all, he still has the same battle mentality. Ikip (talk) 17:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   I would prefer to speak for myself about what I feel now, than be quoted on what I said in the past;--circumstances can change. I will add my comment very soon. DGG ( talk ) 18:10, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   I removed the quote,[6] sorry DGG. Ikip (talk) 18:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   What proportion of the candidate's edits have been to fiction related articles? To fiction related AfDs? Protonk (talk) 17:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

2. Oppose per Ikip. (And Bravo Ikip for pointing it out.) Utterly agree with reasoning and conclusion, but I was convinced after reading the first quote. Strongly urge anyone who has not voted for this candidate to read Ikip's links and reasoning. Yes, we need more empowered vandal-fightin' admins, but the self-congratulatory hostility the candidate has expressed toward those he terms 'vandals' is shocking, as is his call for punishment of those who speak out. Again, please read the above post before you vote; I will be surprised and horrified if more oppose votes don't surface soon. Jusdafax 08:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
3. Oppose That was the reason most were against his attempt to become an administrator last year. This is third attempt now. Is there a limit, or can you keep on trying? Dream Focus 09:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   The reason we allow there to be multiple attempts on RFAs is that people can change, so in theory so can the way people edit, and it usually happens this way to be honest; and as RFAs usually tell people what they've done wrong or what they need to improve on, the editor can usually fix the problems and come back in a few months, or a year as Kww has done, therefore it's become rather common for editors to have to wait for a second or third RFA to be able to pass. --Coffee // have a cup // ark // 10:08, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Oppose - Ikip's links are highly concerning, not least because of the fact that he states that he wishes to work with vandals and vandalism in Q1. Would be willing to be persuaded otherwise. Honesty is one thing, but honesty without changing one's actions is another. — neuro 10:23, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Moving to support, misread as being from 2009. — neuro 14:38, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

4. Oppose - Meursault2004 (talk) 11:17, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Might be helpful if you gave a reason, as RFA is not a "vote". --Coffee // have a cup // ark // 11:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   This is undoubtedly retaliation for [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]. Mersault is well aware of how consensus works, as evidenced by his position at various other Wikipedias, clearly the only reason that a summary has been neglected in this oppose is because the reasoning behind it is so clearly childish revenge. — neuro 11:39, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Neuro, you have been an editor long enough to realize that it is really counterproductive to boldly explain editors motivations for why they !vote a certain way, especially with such a hyped term as "retaliation" . Your response opens up a huge can of worms about everyone's alleged reasons for !voting a certain way. Ikip (talk) 17:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   It's not so much a supposition as a deducted opinion. Nor is it an assumption of bad faith, because I don't consider that reason to be evident of 'bad faith'. I call them how I see them. — neuro 18:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

5. Weak Oppose Per Ikip. While I find the links disturbing, I also have to say i'm inpressed with the way Kww is not trying to hide the past. So it's 51-49 to me leaning opposed. Sorry, but at this moment, I must oppose. America69 (talk) 13:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
6. Weak oppose I think Kww A) is trying to do the best he can for Wikipedia and B) has greatly improved as an editor over the last year or so. That said, I think he is too firm in his own convictions and those convictions are generally opposed to my "too firm" convictions (I'd likely not make a good admin either...) for me to be comfortable with him as an admin overseeing related disputes. I'd say it's not unlikely (50-60%?) he'd be a good admin. Unfortunately the risk of him being another AMiB is too high for my taste. Sorry. Hobit (talk) 13:18, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
7. Oppose. I supported Kevin in his last run, and I agree with him on a fair number of issues. And while I do not wish to be associated with some of the opposes above and any in a similar vein that follow, I'm going to oppose this request. A recent incident prevents me from supporting this time. A 'crat, from some of the smaller projects, was 'played' by the Bambifan101 vandal and Kevin was far too aggressive in seeking an indef on a long-term good faith editor. Meursault2004 was taking an AGF approach here and got rather little of it in return. See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive567#Bambifan101 and User:Meursault2004 for most of it and User talk:Lar#Continuation of discussion from AN/Dramafest for more. My concern is that he's simply too much of a hard-ass for adminship. Those who know more will know that Kevin is no fan of me, and I very nearly opted for neutral because of that; I had it written and saved while I had dinner. Having thought on it, I realize that I simply have changed my view of him over this incident and so I've discarded my earlier statement. Sincerely, Jack Merridew 13:57, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
8. Oppose per Jack Merridew, I don't like how trigger happy he is [12], not a bad candidate overall, but still seems to want to do things his way. That's not the way things work here though, everything works by consensus, and to not correctly understand policy or have the common sense to know that you don't block someone to force them to say they won't do something again, just isn't acceptable as an admin. We only block if the actual offense was bad enough to warrant it, and if we fear they'll do it again; the instance linked in Jack's oppose is a pretty straightforward mistake by someone who doesn't quite understand what's what on the english version of Wikipedia, Kww seemed in favor of blocking without giving Meursault2004 enough time to say that he wouldn't commit the act again. I'm sorry but your unwillingness to listen makes me unable to trust you to have the tools and use them effectively. --Coffee // have a cup // ark // 14:41, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
9. Strong oppose as the behavior in which editors expressed concern at Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Kww_2#Oppose and Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Kww#Oppose have not dissipated. The candidate continues to promote a battleground environment and I would not trust with block ability with regards to his opponents nor with deletion ability with regards to fiction related discussions. Notice, for example, the bad faith and haughtiness in "There is a small group of editors that believes they can ignore it. I suggest that you ignore them." He dismisses and disregards those with whom he disagrees as if they don't matter. That view of pro-fiction and episode editors being vandals has hardly diminished. Moreover, he does not always provide edit summaries a la [13]. Finally, thinking that "Remember deleting is a last resort. Always see if an article can be improved first." is "unnecessary and intrusive" is particularly disheartening. Trying to improve content first is hardly "unnecessary and intrusive", rather it is "courteous" and why we are here in the first place, i.e. to build an encyclopedia. Anyway, fails User:A_Nobody/RfA#RfA_Standards. Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 15:26, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   "...continues to promote a battleground environment", *snort*. HiDrNick! 15:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Which is exactly what you did with such an unhelpful reply... Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 15:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Yes, but he didn't oppose this candidate with a hypocritical reason. Tan | 39 16:11, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Regardless of what you think of me, it does not excuse or negate any other's poor behavior. While I may strongly oppose Kww's candidacy because I simply do not trust him to use block and delete functions unbiasedly, it is not as if I despise him as a person or think he does no good here at all or think he should be blocked or some other extreme or am unwilling to say as much. Just as I noted at User_talk:Kww#Regarding_this..., I am more than willing to acknowledge and show appreciation for positives from this or any other editor. Before today, I took a two week break from editing due to a combination of flu, work, and general need to get away from Wikipedia. I did so mostly for real-world concerns, but also in part so as to not foment needless animosity here and you know these past couple of weeks of neither editing nor actively following Wikipedia have once I got over the flu been relatively happy times for me. I logged back in for a bit today to do a few things that seemed needed, such as responding to an adoptee, updating an article I created, and commenting some RfAs. In two of those, I liked what I saw (see [14] and [15] and in both cases there are probably areas where myself and those editors might not see eye to eye on everything, but so what? Different viewpoints are fine at times.) Now, had Kww made sincere peace feelers to me since the last RfA, I may have reacted differently here. After all, I supported MuZemike and greatly respect him as an admin and editor despite that we got off on a bad foot and moreover even though we hardly share the same inclusion criteria philosophies. In this particular instance, I still fear that the candidate would rather be rid of rather than patch up disputes with opponents and that is my concern. Both with how he usually treats me, but also with the same dismissive attitude displayed in this months episode AfD I cite above. I don't see a willingness to reach out to me or to treat episode/fiction creators as reasonable editors. And thus, it gives one pause for how once we move beyond the RfA these editors and their articles will be treated. Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 16:13, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

   Regardless of A Nobody's behavior, it does not excuse Kww's in any way, especially when we plan to trust Kww with administrative tools. Ikip (talk) 16:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

10. Oppose, [16] is unacceptable. --Aqwis (talk) 17:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    While it may be unacceptable to you, it really isn't a terrible sentiment. If it is unacceptable, it goes back to 2008, and I see no signs that Kww has been a consistent pugilist on this point beyond a reasonable desire to keep the project focused on noteable topics with reliable sources. We shouldn't be looking for people to expand the project with any piece of unsourced nonsense. I realize that you're saying we shouldn't view such individuals as vandals, but Kww isn't extreme for holding such a sentiment. I feel the same way. Someone who repeatedly focuses on creating a nonsense articles isn't here to help. Kww understands that. Hiberniantears (talk) 18:01, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    The mindset has persisted into October 2009. The claim that "There is a small group of editors that believes they can ignore it" is not even true in any event. Hundreds, maybe even thousands of editors work on television episode articles and perhaps millions of readers come here to read them. "Small" is not a truthful way to designate such a large segment of our community. We can hopefully all agree that nonsense articles should not exist and I have argued and even nominated to delete articles that cannot be verified by any sources, but we're talking about ones such as the Aqua Teen episodes that are not mere made up nonsense, but that concern an actual episode of a show that appears on a recognizable cable network as well as on a DVD and thus is covered in episode and DVD reviews. Whether it is sufficient to merit a stand alone article or a merge and redirect is legitimate grounds for discussion, but outright redlinking? Not really. Nor is it an instance of pure nonsense or which its defenders and contributors need be dismissed as ignorable. As for those who challenge "Not plot", policies and guidelines and changed and debated constantly and as we are frequently reminded "consensus can change". Why stifle the opposing viewpoint altogether? Sincerely, --A Nobody^{My talk} 18:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating stifling anyone, and neither is Kww. I'm also not badgering (with this badgering...). I'm simply positing that we can hold people accountable for absurd or unreasonable positions. But we need to maintain our perspective when it comes to distinguishing views as unreasonable from those which merely oppose our own. TV episode and character debates, and strongly held opinions on the notability of such, have a great deal of variation and merit. But note that we don't have articles on every page ever published in Time Magazine, even though we do have an expansive list on Time's covers. Strongly held, yet reasonable opinions are a good thing for the project, as well as the admin corps, and I can assure you that the community is not going to let an admin block editors for creating pages such as those discussed here. If I had it my way, there are whole blocks of editors that I would block. But I don't have it my way, which is why we manage to function, albeit somewhat haltingly from time to time. Hiberniantears (talk) 19:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

11. Oppose. per the above. Kww has made some excellent contributions to the project, but I find the diffs and links noted above to be rather disturbing. Looking back at the previous two rfas, it doesn't seem like much has changed. Sorry. -FASTILY ^(TALK) 17:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
12. Oppose per Ikip et al.--Unionhawk ^{Talk E-mail Review} 18:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
13. Strong oppose. Re Q6.It would have taken just a little research into the recent major controversy relating to admin. flaunting of policy and a review of the most recent RfAs where similar questions have been answered positively, to come up with a simple set of assurances to set my mind at rest. The answer also demonstrates a lack of willingness to step out from the shadows of the general Admin. cadre mindset and shows no attempt to make a difference.

    Also, a worrying lack of research time into the question (it’s not a trick, it’s all out there) suggested by the rapid, sitting on the fence answer, indicates a lack of thoroughness which is essential when dealing with complex policy issues and the need to handle dificult situations. Too often problems are made worse and escalate because of reactionary Admin. intervention instead of investing a little time understanding wtf is really going on. Leaky Caldron 19:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    As a matter of ingterest, can I ask what sort of answer you'd have needed from that question in order not to oppose? Because it strikes me as a completely bizarre answer to oppose for. (Edit: did you mean Q9?) Black Kite 19:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

    (edit conflict) Am I missing something obvious? Q6 is fine. JamieS93 19:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Many apologies - I did mean Q9. Anyway, he did answer Q9 and I am worried about it. I have asked all of the most recent candidates a broadly similar question to which each (even those that failed) gave a reassuring answer. This candidate either didn’t check those out (lack of thoroughness) or prefers to wait for some central change on RECALL. The simple answer was to commit to voluntary relinquish in the event of a proven misuse. Leaky Caldron 19:58, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Neutral

Neutral for now, I couldn't find anything that stood out recently that would make me oppose, but I'll wait to see if any relevant opposes are made before I decide. --Coffee // have a cup // ark // 11:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Moved to oppose. --Coffee // have a cup // ark // 14:45, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

1. Neutral - I respect Kww a lot, and he does great work. But, he's too sure of his opinions. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 15:00, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
2. Neutral - Very worried by Jack Merridew's and Coffee's opposes, seemed too eager to block without asking for confirmation beforehand. However, most of his edits have been positive and help keep content safe. Will revisit later, and am able to be swayed either way. -- Casmith_789 (talk) 17:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)