Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 May 12: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
Scope creep (talk | contribs) →Ami Dror: ce |
Scope creep (talk | contribs) →Ami Dror: ce |
||
| Line 15: | Line 15: | ||
====[[:Ami Dror]]==== |
====[[:Ami Dror]]==== |
||
:{{DRV links|Ami Dror|xfd_page=Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ami Dror (2nd nomination)|article=}} |
:{{DRV links|Ami Dror|xfd_page=Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ami Dror (2nd nomination)|article=}} |
||
This is a extremely contentious Afd that was closed by the admin with a simple keep as though they were closing an Afd opened by mistake. None of the problem inherent in Afd discussion were addresed. From the canvassing at the beginning, to the the whole course of the keep !votes being based on false premises, hand-waving and wilful (supposed) ignorance of policy, particularly ignorance of the [[WP:O]] Note d, i.e. the idea that interviews can prove a person notable. These arguments have been given false creedence that has lead to a false keep !vote. It should have been ''delete'', or at the worst ''no consensus''. Now we have been left with a group that thinks its ok to use interviews to prove notability. I think the whole thing feels staged. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">[[User:scope_creep|<span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:scope_creep#top|Talk]]</sup></span>''' 13:52, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
This is a extremely contentious Afd that was closed by the admin with a simple keep as though they were closing an Afd opened by mistake. None of the problem inherent in the Afd discussion were addresed. From the canvassing at the beginning, to the the whole course of the keep !votes being based on false premises, hand-waving and wilful (supposed) ignorance of policy, particularly ignorance of the [[WP:O]] Note d, i.e. the idea that interviews can prove a person notable. These arguments have been given false creedence that has lead to a false keep !vote. It should have been ''delete'', or at the worst ''no consensus''. Now we have been left with a group that thinks its ok to use interviews to prove notability. I think the whole thing feels staged. '''<span style="text-shadow:7px 7px 8px black; font-family:Papyrus">[[User:scope_creep|<span style="color:#3399ff">scope_creep</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:scope_creep#top|Talk]]</sup></span>''' 13:52, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
||
*'''Endorse'''. I agree with the appellant that the closing statement could have benefited from at least a brief closing rationale. I also agree that there was plenty of obvious canvassing, a litany of meritless "Keep" votes (not "!votes"), and incorrect categorization of sources as independent. However, even when you discard all those votes, we're still left with no consensus to delete. {{u|Doczilla}} is an experienced admin, and I'm sure he gave those canvassed, ILIKEIT-type votes the weight they deserve, namely, zero. Had he added a terse explanation of his close, it would be obvious. In my read of that AfD, the Delete views indeed carry more weight than the Keeps, but not overwhelmingly so. Is it really worth our while here to overturn this to a "No consensus", with the only practical effect being an earlier potential renomination? Unlike the appellant, I don't believe this close sets a precedent about the use of interviews as proof of notability. Most of those Keeps have no interest in our P&G, and are merely citing whatever they believe will get their pet page kept. [[User:OwenX|Owen×]] [[User talk:OwenX|<big>☎</big>]] 14:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
*'''Endorse'''. I agree with the appellant that the closing statement could have benefited from at least a brief closing rationale. I also agree that there was plenty of obvious canvassing, a litany of meritless "Keep" votes (not "!votes"), and incorrect categorization of sources as independent. However, even when you discard all those votes, we're still left with no consensus to delete. {{u|Doczilla}} is an experienced admin, and I'm sure he gave those canvassed, ILIKEIT-type votes the weight they deserve, namely, zero. Had he added a terse explanation of his close, it would be obvious. In my read of that AfD, the Delete views indeed carry more weight than the Keeps, but not overwhelmingly so. Is it really worth our while here to overturn this to a "No consensus", with the only practical effect being an earlier potential renomination? Unlike the appellant, I don't believe this close sets a precedent about the use of interviews as proof of notability. Most of those Keeps have no interest in our P&G, and are merely citing whatever they believe will get their pet page kept. [[User:OwenX|Owen×]] [[User talk:OwenX|<big>☎</big>]] 14:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
||
*'''Vacate and relist''' or alternatively '''overturn to no consensus and allow immediate renomination''' (involved), as per my comment in the AfD I found the vast majority of the keep votes/!votes to be just about worthless with regards to our P&G's (with one or two exceptions). I believe that the current closes available would be 'no consensus' or 'delete', but I also believe an extra 7 days may have led to an actual consensus (given the delete !votes came late). Alternatively, explicitly allowing immediate renomination (with a 'clean' restart) may also be beneficial to finding a true P&G-based consensus either way. I don't think this should have been closed as 'keep', and in the absence of an extended closing statement, I cannot see how that conclusion was reached. [[User:Daniel|Daniel]] ([[User talk:Daniel|talk]]) 20:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
*'''Vacate and relist''' or alternatively '''overturn to no consensus and allow immediate renomination''' (involved), as per my comment in the AfD I found the vast majority of the keep votes/!votes to be just about worthless with regards to our P&G's (with one or two exceptions). I believe that the current closes available would be 'no consensus' or 'delete', but I also believe an extra 7 days may have led to an actual consensus (given the delete !votes came late). Alternatively, explicitly allowing immediate renomination (with a 'clean' restart) may also be beneficial to finding a true P&G-based consensus either way. I don't think this should have been closed as 'keep', and in the absence of an extended closing statement, I cannot see how that conclusion was reached. [[User:Daniel|Daniel]] ([[User talk:Daniel|talk]]) 20:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC) |
||
Revision as of 03:58, 13 May 2024
Seems like a flawed nomination. See wikt:'phone. 1234qwer1234qwer4 17:40, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
Endorse regretfullyAllow recreation. We need a good reason to delete a redirect, especially for a word that appears in the dictionary, and no such reason was provided by the Delete !voters on that RfD. But the closing admin correctly read the consensus. In a WP search for 'phone, the "Telephone" result doesn't even appear in the top 200 results. This was a correct, but unfortunate closure that should now be amended. Owen× ☎ 18:17, 12 May 2024 (UTC)- Allow recreation for how long its been since the RfD Mach61 18:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- There is no need to formally review a 17 year old XFD. Just recreate it and if someone has an issue, a new discussion can happen. Star Mississippi 00:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- My understanding of this nomination is that it's per WP:DRVPURPOSE #3, as otherwise a recreation of this redirect would potentially be liable to be G4ed. All the best, —a smart kitten[meow] 00:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- You may very well be correct, but I've seen that applied to maybe 17 month old discussions. Nothing of this vintage. No sane patroller is going to scream G4 at a 2007-era discussion. Oh wait, don't we have a 20 year old one here now? Oops Star Mississippi 02:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
- My understanding of this nomination is that it's per WP:DRVPURPOSE #3, as otherwise a recreation of this redirect would potentially be liable to be G4ed. All the best, —a smart kitten[meow] 00:59, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
This is a extremely contentious Afd that was closed by the admin with a simple keep as though they were closing an Afd opened by mistake. None of the problem inherent in the Afd discussion were addresed. From the canvassing at the beginning, to the the whole course of the keep !votes being based on false premises, hand-waving and wilful (supposed) ignorance of policy, particularly ignorance of the WP:O Note d, i.e. the idea that interviews can prove a person notable. These arguments have been given false creedence that has lead to a false keep !vote. It should have been delete, or at the worst no consensus. Now we have been left with a group that thinks its ok to use interviews to prove notability. I think the whole thing feels staged. scope_creepTalk 13:52, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- Endorse. I agree with the appellant that the closing statement could have benefited from at least a brief closing rationale. I also agree that there was plenty of obvious canvassing, a litany of meritless "Keep" votes (not "!votes"), and incorrect categorization of sources as independent. However, even when you discard all those votes, we're still left with no consensus to delete. Doczilla is an experienced admin, and I'm sure he gave those canvassed, ILIKEIT-type votes the weight they deserve, namely, zero. Had he added a terse explanation of his close, it would be obvious. In my read of that AfD, the Delete views indeed carry more weight than the Keeps, but not overwhelmingly so. Is it really worth our while here to overturn this to a "No consensus", with the only practical effect being an earlier potential renomination? Unlike the appellant, I don't believe this close sets a precedent about the use of interviews as proof of notability. Most of those Keeps have no interest in our P&G, and are merely citing whatever they believe will get their pet page kept. Owen× ☎ 14:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- Vacate and relist or alternatively overturn to no consensus and allow immediate renomination (involved), as per my comment in the AfD I found the vast majority of the keep votes/!votes to be just about worthless with regards to our P&G's (with one or two exceptions). I believe that the current closes available would be 'no consensus' or 'delete', but I also believe an extra 7 days may have led to an actual consensus (given the delete !votes came late). Alternatively, explicitly allowing immediate renomination (with a 'clean' restart) may also be beneficial to finding a true P&G-based consensus either way. I don't think this should have been closed as 'keep', and in the absence of an extended closing statement, I cannot see how that conclusion was reached. Daniel (talk) 20:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- Support the nom, User:Scope creep, but really, he should be advocating a single outcome. Reading through the AfD, I cannot find two sources that meeting the GNG. It’s unfortunate that someone is saying interviews don’t meet WP:SECONDARY, because that is not true. The problem with whether the sources are independent. Content sourced from the subject via interview of the subject con at be independent of the subject.
- I’m leaning to “Overturn (to no consensus) and allow standard WP:RENOM in two months”. I don’t see a case for unusual urgency in solving this one. SmokeyJoe (talk) 21:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'm involved, but I would have loved some sort of statement by Doczilla regarding the close, either in the close or on their talk page. I don't care what happens here, but the close does need a good explanation, which could have been provided with some talk page patience. SportingFlyer T·C 22:36, 12 May 2024 (UTC)