Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates

This page provides a place to discuss new items for inclusion on In the news (ITN), a protected template on the Main Page (see past items in the ITN archives). Do not report errors in ITN items that are already on the Main Page here— discuss those at the relevant section of WP:ERRORS.

This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section - it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.

Tadej Pogačar Landslides kill at least 257 people in Geze Gofa, Ethiopia. In cycling, Tadej Pogačar (pictured) wins the Tour de France. Incumbent U.S. president Joe Biden withdraws from the 2024 presidential election. In golf, Xander Schauffele wins the Open Championship. Ongoing: Israel–Hamas war timeline Russian invasion of Ukraine timeline Sudanese civil war timeline Summer Olympics Recent deaths: Jerzy Artysz John Mayall Alexander Waugh Kenneth Grange Duke Fakir Leo Burke view — page history — related changes — edit

Glossary Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story. Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story. A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles. Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage. The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death. All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality. Nomination steps Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards. Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually - a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC). Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate. Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready! You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination. The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted. Headers When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria. Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A. If satisfied, change the header to (Posted). Where there is no consensus, or the article's quality remains poor, change the header to (Closed) or (Not posted). Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled). Voicing an opinion on an item Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated. Please do... Pick an older item to review near the bottom of this page, before the eligibility runs out and the item scrolls off the page and gets abandoned in the archive, unused and forgotten. Review an item even if it has already been reviewed by another user. You may be the first to spot a problem, or the first to confirm that an identified problem was fixed. Piling on the list of "support!" votes will help administrators see what is ready to be posted on the Main Page. Tell about problems in articles if you see them. Be bold and fix them yourself if you know how, or tell others if it's not possible. Please do not... Add simple "support!" or "oppose!" votes without including your reasons. Similarly, curt replies such as "who?", "meh", or "duh!" are not helpful. A vote without reasoning means little for us, please elaborate yourself. Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive. Accuse other editors of supporting, opposing or nominating due to a personal bias (such as ethnocentrism). We at ITN do not handle conflicts of interest. Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s). Oppose a recurring item here because you disagree with the recurring items criteria. Discuss them here. Use ITN as a forum for your own political or personal beliefs. Such comments are irrelevant to the outcome and are potentially disruptive. Suggesting updates There are two places where you can request corrections to posted items: Anything that does not change the intent of the blurb (spelling, grammar, markup issues, updating death tolls etc.) should be discussed at WP:Errors. Discuss major changes in the blurb's intent or very complex updates as part of the current ITNC nomination.

June 24

Portal:Current events/2023 June 24

June 24, 2023 (2023-06-24) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russo-Ukrainian War Russian invasion of Ukraine Wagner Group rebellion The Wagner Group seizes and occupies the cities of Rostov-on-Don and Voronezh as clashes occur across both oblasts. Wagner Group forces capture the Southern Military District headquarters in Rostov-on-Don. Rostov Governor Vasily Golubev asks residents to remain indoors. (9News) (Ukraine Today) (CNN) Yevgeny Prigozhin warns that his troops will march on Moscow unless Russian military leadership meet with him for talks. Russian president Vladimir Putin addresses the nation, saying that a coup d'état attempt is under way. (The New York Times) (AP) An Antonov An-26 transport plane is reportedly shot down over Voronezh Oblast, while Russian Air Force Ka-50 helicopters strike an oil refinery and depot in Voronezh, causing a large explosion and fire.(Defence Blog) (Hindustan Times) Authorities in Lipetsk Oblast tell residents to remain indoors, with the M4 highway closed off to traffic. Wagner forces later enter Lipetsk. (Live Mint) (Al Arabiya) (DNP India) The Wagner Group withdraws after Yevgeny Prigozhin, Vladimir Putin, and President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko negotiate a deal to end the rebellion. (AP) 2022–2023 Russian strikes against Ukrainian infrastructure The debris of a Russian cruise missile shot down last night damages a 25-storey building in Kyiv, Ukraine, killing three civilians and injuring eight others. The Ukrainian military says that air defences destroyed 41 out of 51 cruise missiles launched by Russia, as well as two drones. (Reuters) Israeli–Palestinian conflict A Palestinian teenager is shot and killed at a checkpoint in Qalandiya after opening fire on Israeli security forces. (Al Jazeera) Insurgency in Balochistan One person is killed and five others are injured as a Balochistan Liberation Army suicide bomber blows herself up near a military convoy in Turbat, Balochistan, Pakistan. (AP) Moro conflict Two people, a rebel and a soldier, are killed, and fourteen others are injured in a shooting incident in Maimbung, Sulu, Philippines. (ABS-CBN News) Disasters and accidents 2023 Yellowstone River train derailment A bridge crossing the Yellowstone River in Stillwater County, Montana, United States, collapses, causing a freight train carrying hot asphalt and molten sulfur to derail. (AP) Law and crime Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 The Australian government imposes financial sanctions and travel bans on former GRU officer Sergey Dubinsky, Russian Armed Forces colonel Sergey Muchkaev, and Donbas separatist leader Leonid Kharchenko for their involvement in the incident, in which 38 Australians were killed. (AFP via TRT World) Gunmen open fire at a pool hall in Choloma, Honduras, killing at least 11 people and injuring several others. (El Heraldo) Politics and elections 2023 Sierra Leonean general election Sierra Leoneans head to the polls to elect a president and parliament. Incumbent president Julius Maada Bio is running for a second term in office. (AFP via Al Jazeera)

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Wagner Group mutiny

Article: Wagner Group mutiny (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the pro-Russian mercenary company Wagner Group (leader Yevgeny Prigozhin pictured) mutinies after being shelled by Russian forces. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Russian invasion of Ukraine, the pro-Russian mercenary company Wagner Group mutinies after being shelled by Russian forces, prompting the Russian Federal Security Service to open a criminal investigation into it's leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin (pictured).
Alternative blurb II: ​ Russia issues arrest warrant for Wagner mercenaries chief Yevgeny Prigozhin (pictured) on charges of mutiny
Alternative blurb III: ​ In Russia, the pro-Russian mercenary company Wagner Group (leader Yevgeny Prigozhin pictured) revolts against the Russian government.
Alternative blurb IV: ​ In Russia, the pro-Russian mercenary company Wagner Group (leader Yevgeny Prigozhin pictured) mutinies and launches a coup d'etat against the Russian government.
News source(s): Reuters - The Guardian - France24 - DW - VOA - WSJ - BBC - NBC
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by PLATEL (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Silveresc (talk · give credit), ElijahPepe (talk · give credit) and Super Dromaeosaurus (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Yes, "tHiS iS oNgOiNg," but this is a major development in the war: one of Russia's closest allies in the war and Putin's biggest buddies being shelled by Russian troops and mutinying against them. I mean, Yevgeny Prigozhin on Telegram went so far to literally to completely dismiss Russia's invasion rationale, saying that Ukraine and NATO were never going to attack Russia, accused Sergei Shoigu, the minister of defense, for fucking up the war effort, and other stuff so shocking, he's now had a criminal investigation opened about him by the Russian Federal Security Service. We've established with the ICC Putin charges, the recent dam explosion, the Crimean bridge and the like that just because an item is ongoing, extremely major news stories can still be blurbed. This seems like a textbox example of major blurb worthy news from an ongoing news event. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 01:27, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait the situation is too unclear for any blurb to be accurate. 217.180.228.188 (talk) 01:32, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support A major ally of Putin rejecting his now-former allyship is a major development of the war. CJ-Moki (talk) 01:33, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Post shortly The top news stories so far seem to be mostly focusing on informational statements made by the Russians. We should wait until more physical effects (such as fighting, arrests, etc.) are seen.

2G0o2De0l (talk) 01:36, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose — No sign of any developments. As you said yourself, already covered in ongoing regardless. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:39, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Wait I agree that this is a major development and that this would definitely make it to ITN when things develop further, but I would call for some more time to pass before the situation is a bit more resolved. I would also consider adding "allegedly" before shelled because to the best of my knowledge this is an allegation that Prigozhin shared but is disputed, I may be wrong though. Ornithoptera (talk) 01:40, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Wait As stated above, it's unclear precisely what is happening. Obviously fighting between Wagner and the Russian military is noteworthy and likely to attract significant media coverage, but thing are still developing, so it's too early to post a blurb. Gust Justice (talk) 01:42, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait but eventually Support. Currently developing and the media environment makes it difficult to see what is actually happening. We should probably exclude the alleged shelling, which is disputed and just simply say that the Wagner Group has mutinied. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 01:46, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Comment I think we need a better blurb. Mutinies seems to be the wrong word. Need something about the increasing rhetoric and accusations and threats about this side. I haven't got the words though. Nfitz (talk) 02:14, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Wait Definitely a major development but more details need to be known. Alrdead (talk) 02:16, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait for more details/the fog of war to clear, then Support. Yeah, it’s somewhat covered by ongoing, but this is the type of major development that justifies a blurb in itself. The Kip (talk) 02:32, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - as both covered by ongoing and failing any significance unless and until something actually happens as a result of it. If he deposes the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation then sure post. If he shuts up or is shut up then who cares? nableezy - 02:35, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

  By that logic then we shouldn't have had any ITN on the Ukraine War yet, because they haven't deposed the Ukrainian president. Wagner forces have now moved 100s of kilometres along the road to Moscow, with little to no resistance. But the blurb needs work. I'm not sure why the Russian charges are that relevant at this point in time. Nfitz (talk) 03:20, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

  They’ve effectively seized Rostov-on-Don including the Southern Military District HQ, I fail to see how that has “no significance.” This is arguably the most significant development of the war since the invasion itself. The Kip (talk) 03:25, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• Slight Oppose It hurts me to say this to something so important, but it is Covered by ongoing. Still, I can see why this is important, and I truly hope that this can be an ITN as soon as the situation becomes clear. Once things clear up, I may change my vote to Support. Editor 5426387 (talk) 02:52, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

  The ongoing covers the invasion of Ukraine. These are Russians fighting (or at least moving unopposed) hundreds of kilometres up the highway to Moscow. It's either notable on it's own, or not; but this isn't part of the Ukrainian War ongoing. Nfitz (talk) 03:22, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

So why does the blurb say "In the Russian invasion of Ukraine..."? HiLo48 (talk) 03:38, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

I keep saying the blurb need a rewrite. Nfitz (talk) 03:47, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait, bordering on Support The situation is probably clear enough to post now, but I'm not positive. I think the notability and news coverage are both there. I should note that the original blurb and alt 1 are way too long. -- Kicking222 (talk) 03:12, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Wait We have lots of unclear results, probably another 12 hrs will give us sufficient details to know if this was a successful coup or event that falls outside ongoing. --Masem (t) 03:14, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Strong Support. If I remember correctly, a Russian missile attack got posted here once. This is orders of magnitude more important than those individual attacks, and the article in question is written adequately, especially considering it's such a quickly changing scene. - Mebigrouxboy (talk) 03:28, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose It is NOT obvious that "this is a major development in the war". Only time will tell us that. Lots of time. HiLo48 (talk) 03:40, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Leaning Support -the removal of Wagner from Bahkmut will have major consequences by itself. Schierbecker (talk) 04:02, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support when ready If what I'm reading is correct, this is an ongoing coup attempt. It's not "covered" by the ongoing, regardless of its impact on the Ukraine War. The article isn't good enough to post as it is. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:04, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
• Needs a better blurb: The shelling may be staged and/or a false flag operation; the arrest warrant is not the main story. The blurb needs to focus on the mutiny. --Carnildo (talk) 04:39, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

  I favor altblurb 3: Prigozhin's statements have been about replacing the Minister of Defense, not Putin, so "coup" is overstating things right now. --Carnildo (talk) 05:36, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Welkom mining explosion

Article: Welkom mining explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In South Africa, the government reveals that at least 31 people in a mine in Welkom are estimated to have been killed from a methane gas explosion in May. (Post)
News source(s): WaPo - Fox News - Al Jazeera - ABC (Australia) - Reuters - Seattle Times
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Dying (talk · give credit)
• Updated by ‎Family27390 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: The South African government just revealed that 31 people are estimated to have been killed last month in a mine from a methane gas explosion. The article may need additional expansion, but seems to be fine otherwise. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 01:09, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Needs to be noted that I do not see any initial reports circa one month ago about this explosion, which would make this the first reporting and not stale. Masem (t) 01:17, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, hence he government reveals part; part of the news is that this was just confirmed by the South African government. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 01:29, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• comment: i should note that it does not seem to be currently clear whether or not the miners died in a gas explosion. this notice that the south african government published seems to have deliberately avoided mentioning how they died, and a number of other reliable sources seem to also be similarly uncertain. for example, agence france-presse (via bangkok post) states that "the cause remains unknown". deutsche welle has reported that an explosion occurred, but only states that "[a]t least 31 people are believed to have died in a methane explosion". as there currently is a gas explosion that killed 31 people featured on itn, it is easy to conclude that these miners were also killed in a gas explosion, and although i would presume that it is likely that they did actually die in either such an explosion or its aftermath, i would hesitate to make such an assertion on the main page at this time.
  please note that the page was moved without discussion by Jim 2 Michael. i had originally titled it "2023 South Africa mining disaster", and am unsure if it should be called "Welkom mining explosion" while it is on the main page. i have started a discussion on this issue here. (i have also removed Jim 2 Michael from the credits as Jim 2 Michael only moved the article and changed the name used in the infobox; Family27390 at least added an infobox and a couple of categories. anyone who believes that Jim 2 Michael's contribution to the article is deserving of credit is welcome to revert my removal.) dying (talk) 04:47, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

June 23

Portal:Current events/2023 June 23

June 23, 2023 (2023-06-23) (Friday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russo-Ukrainian War Russian invasion of Ukraine Wagner Group rebellion Wagner Group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin declares that he will "stop" the Russian military leadership and calls for a "march of justice", claiming that his forces have been killed in airstrikes by Russian government forces. The defence ministry rejects the claims, stating that they are "not true and are an information provocation". (BBC News) (CBC News) (The Moscow Times) (The Guardian) The Prosecutor-General of Russia Igor Krasnov formally orders the arrest of Yevgeny Prigozhin on charges of calling for an "armed rebellion", with authorities urging Wagner personnel to refuse Prigozhin's "criminal and treacherous orders" and to detain him. The FSB begins a mutiny investigation into Yevgeny Prigozhin. (TASS) (TASS 2) (NPR) BBC News Russian reports that there are roadblocks on the M4 highway between Moscow and Voronezh, with the FSB and other security services being placed on high alert in the Moscow Oblast. (BBC News Russian) Business and economy 2021–2023 inflation surge 2021–present United Kingdom cost-of-living crisis Chancellor of the Exchequer Jeremy Hunt unveils a "mortgage charter", which includes a 12-month protection against repossession, to assist property owners with increasing mortgage costs caused by the Bank of England's interest rate hikes. (CNA) Disasters and accidents Welkom mining explosion The government of South Africa reports that on May 18, at least 31 people were killed in a gas explosion at an illegally operated mining shaft in Welkom, Free State. (AP) (AFP via Bangkok Post) A Cessna 208 Caravan crashes with six people on board in Elelim, Yalimo Regency, Highland Papua, Indonesia. The rescue operations are being impacted by severe weather in the region. (SeputarPapua) Four people are killed and five others are injured in an explosion at a steel mill in Yingkou, Liaoning, China. (AP) Eight people are injured after a tornado hits the North Antelope Rochelle Mine in Campbell County, Wyoming, United States. (AP) International relations Philippines–United Arab Emirates relations UAE President Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan grants Philippine President Bongbong Marcos' request for the humanitarian pardon of three imprisoned Filipinos, two on death row for drug trafficking and another serving a 15-year sentence for slander. (CNN Philippines) Law and crime The Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) prosecutes an Indian citizen, in accordance with the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, for allegedly issuing fraudulent university acceptance letters to Indian students. The CBSA has suspended some of the affected students' deportation. (CNA)

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RD: Bev Risman

Article: Bev Risman (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Sky Sports
Credits:

• Created by Theduffer00 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Tonyhuntington (talk · give credit), Jkaharper (talk · give credit) and 2a00:23c6:5d20:d501:c539:f80c:9946:b5af (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English rugby player - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 19:56, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

RD: Sheldon Harnick

Article: Sheldon Harnick (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NYT
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Smb1001 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by อมฤตาลัย (talk · give credit), Tommie91 (talk · give credit) and Sunshineisles2 (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: American lyricist and songwriter. The stage productions and parts of the honors and awards sections need additional citations. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 19:52, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

June 22

Portal:Current events/2023 June 22

June 22, 2023 (2023-06-22) (Thursday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine 2023 Ukrainian counteroffensive A bridge between southern Ukraine and Russian-occupied Crimea has been damaged by a British-made Storm Shadow missile. (BBC News) Eight people are killed and ten others are kidnapped after Islamic extremists attacked a group of farmers in Mafa, Borno State, Nigeria. (AP) Business and economy Economy of Zambia, China–Zambia relations Zambia agrees with the Export–Import Bank of China and other creditors to restructure US$6.3 billion in debt, which includes maturity extensions and interest rate reductions. The deal, facilitated by the French government, also allows Zambia to access a $1.3 billion bailout from the International Monetary Fund. (Financial Times) Disasters and accidents Titan submersible implosion The United States Coast Guard announces that they have discovered debris from the OceanGate submersible Titan, which went missing while viewing the wreckage of the RMS Titanic. (BBC News) All five people aboard the submersible are presumed dead after it was destroyed in an implosion. The United States Navy says that a sound they detected several days ago may have been the implosion. (Reuters) (Business Insider) A fishing vessel sinks off Baganga, Davao Oriental, Philippines, with two crew members found dead. Search operations are ongoing for seven others. (Philippine Daily Inquirer) Health and environment 2023 Asia heat wave 2023 China heat wave Beijing, China, reports a record temperature for June of 41 °C (106 °F), surpassing the previous June record of 40.6 °C (105.1 °F) in 1961. (Reuters) It is announced that at least 170 people have died in Northern India due to the heat wave, with temperatures of up to 46 °C (115 °F) reported. (DW) Law and crime The US Supreme Court rules in a 5–4 decision that the US federal government is not obligated to secure water access for the Navajo Nation. (Reuters) Sports 2023 NBA draft In basketball, the NBA Draft is held at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, New York, United States, with the San Antonio Spurs taking French player Victor Wembanyama with the first overall pick. (AFP via France 24)

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RD: Stevanus Vreeke Runtu

Article: Stevanus Vreeke Runtu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://manadopost.jawapos.com/berita-utama/281273394/breaking-newsmantan-bupati-minahasa-stefanus-vreeke-runtu-meninggal-dunia
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Jeromi Mikhael (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indonesian politician Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 16:49, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Support Article appears to be well-cited and holistic in coverage. A bit underlinked, but not a big deal for our purposes. Curbon7 (talk) 20:02, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Proposal: add article links to the passengers of the Titan per WP:ITNRDBLURB

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2023 Titan submersible incident (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination
Blurb:  Five people, including Stockton Rush, Paul-Henri Nargeolet, Hamish Harding, and Shahzada Dawood, die in a submersible implosion in the North Atlantic near the wreck of the Titanic. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Five people die in a submersible implosion in the North Atlantic near the wreck of the Titanic.
Alternative blurb II: ​ Five people die in a submersible implosion in the North Atlantic near the wreck of the Titanic. (Current blurb)
Alternative blurb III: ​ Recent Deaths: Stockton Rush, Hamish Harding, Paul-Henri Nargeolet, Shahzada Dawood (proposal by User talk:2A02:C7F:2CC5:5A00:B064:64CD:A973:5545)
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Considering that four of the five passengers have articles of their own, I'm WP:BOLDLY proposing that we alter the blurb to include them per WP:ITNRDBLURB and the "death as the main story" clause. There are three options; one that lists all notable individuals, one that links "five people" to the section of the article including everyone that was onboard, and the current blurb. EDIT: I've just realized that somehow I overwrote the exact same nomination by an IP, so I've combined their proposal as well. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 21:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Going by past, that plane crash that killed several notable members of a football team, we shouldn't include multiple names, since they can easily be found through the link. Masem (t) 22:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• The blurb is fine as it is, per Masem. And I would IAR oppose the articles being placed in RD as the persons in question, as they were just created and likely would not have been had they not bee victims of the ITN item that is already posted. I guess Harding would be a reasonable RD nom, but really only him. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:09, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I once worried a day like this would come, mostly the "football team paradox" where there is a plane crash killing 150 people and an entire football team of, say, Liverpool F.C. perishes in a blaze. What is there to do? But in this case, given that these articles were just recently created, I agree with DarkSide830 that these are not eligible for RD. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 22:17, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• I also think it would be excessive to list the people in the blurb. I suppose you could separately nominate Harding and Nargeolet for RD. I assume all four are included in a "victims of the Titan implosion" sub-list at Deaths in 2023, which is really the most suitable. Good faith nom, but suggest close. Kingsif (talk) 22:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  A way to look at this...all four with articles are primarily notable with their association with this disaster. Readers are more likely to know of the disaster than the individuals, so the disaster link serves well to cover all. Now if for some reason Bill Gates was a passenger, his name goes far beyond the disaster and that would be a case we'd highlight since readers would be likely searching on both. Masem (t) 22:35, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  Besides the teenager, one could argue that all four were notable in their fields, but most people hadn't heard of them. But I think we can all agree there's a snowball's chance in hell they're getting blurbed either individually or added to the Titan blurb. Kingsif (talk) 22:43, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RD: Winnie Ewing

Article: Winnie Ewing (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC - The Guardian
Credits:

• Nominated by Drchriswilliams (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former SNP MP - a prominent fiugure and an icon of the Scottish independence movement Drchriswilliams (talk) 19:36, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article looks good enough for ITNRD. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 20:11, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Comment Political career section has three CN tags on pretty major statements. Curbon7 (talk) 20:06, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) Yinchuan explosion

Article: 2023 Yinchuan gas explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ An explosion at a barbecue restaurant kills 31 people and injures seven others in Yinchuan, China. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In China, an explosion at a Yinchuan barbecue restaurant kills 31 people and injures 7.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In China, an explosion at a restaurant in Yinchuan kills 31 people.
News source(s): CNN, The Guardian, Reuters
Credits:

• Nominated by Ainty Painty (talk · give credit)
• Created by Fakescientist8000 (talk · give credit)

 Ainty Painty (talk) 05:35, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Fails WP:EVENTCRIT. Accidental explosions generally don't cause other notable events to occur or have a significant impact over a wide area. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 05:41, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  By that logic, we shouldn't have posted the 2023 Odisha train collision from a while back, seeing how many disasters in India have very little future impact. I'm not saying we shouldn't have posted it, just that your rationale that "every disaster needs impact regardless of death toll" is a bit too strict. Tube·of·Light 10:24, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  That one appears to have notable political ramifications (a case for WP:LASTING) and affected travelers across India (a case for WP:GEOSCOPE), so it's presumed notable. "Every disaster needs impact regardless of death toll" isn't too strict, it's what the WP:NEVENTS guideline is there to tell us. Wikipedia is not a news service, and news stories should not have articles unless they have some historical significance that warrants inclusion in an encyclopedia. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:33, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  You're picking the wrong hill to fight on here, Thebiguglyalien. I can see exactly where Daikido is coming from. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 12:30, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  The answer to systemic bias is to write more articles about encyclopedic topics from underrepresented areas, not to create as much newscruft as we can. May I suggest two-birds-with-one-stone by writing about women from China without articles? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Support If this was the US/canada/another western country whose citizens dominate this board this would have been posted immediately Daikido (talk) 08:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• This claim is especially ludicrous as we have the Paris gas explosion refused just below. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  If I am not mistaken (I tend to frequently misread text online) most of those opposes in the Paris explosion are because there were no deaths confirmed. If there were a gas explosion that killed 30 Parisians, that would definitely be posted (though probably not "immediately"). Tube·of·Light 10:29, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  It was a similar explosion and a similar number of people got hurt. The exact death toll should not be a major factor in this as we're not here simply to count deaths in some mechanical way. If we followed policy WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NEWSEVENT then none of these events would be getting articles and attention. The encyclopedic topic is gas explosion not every instance of same. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:35, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

A death toll of over 30 is very different to zero. If the Paris explosion had killed 30 people, it'd be a major world news story; likewise if an explosion due to any cause had killed that many people anywhere in the developed world. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 11:43, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I would actually support stronger adherence to NOTNEWS and NEVENT here - this is not like the 2020 Beirut explosion in terms of impact and scale - sadly, an accident took the lives of 30-some people, but in the long term this event will have almost no long-term impact, while the Beirut explosion is still a prime example of many hazards. Masem (t) 12:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

It should be an easy problem to fix. Inform anyone who cites "death toll" or "casualties" in a discussion that their !vote will be ignored for being baseless as far as policy is concerned, and then delete or (preferably) merge any event article that can't affirmatively demonstrate that it meets the requirements of WP:PERSISTENCE, WP:LASTING, or WP:GEOSCOPE. Unfortunately, there are too many editors arguing "it's flashy and it saw news coverage, therefore it's an encyclopedic topic" and there are too few closers willing to weigh !votes based on policy like they're supposed to. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:24, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Why do you claim that death toll has no relevance to notability? Many articles are notable due to death tolls & many are posted to ITN because of that. For example, had the death toll of the Robb Elementary School shooting been 2 instead of 22, there's no chance that it'd have been posted. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 09:39, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Robb Elementary School shooting is notable because it caused the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (meeting WP:LASTING) and still receives retrospective coverage after there were no more breaking updates (meeting WP:SUSTAINED). I say death toll has no relevance to notability because there is no notability guideline that says "events with at least 20 deaths are presumed notable". If you think that should be a factor, then open up an RfC to add that language to a notability guideline. Until then, it's irrelevant. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 14:30, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

It'd still be highly notable without that law having been passed. It was quickly posted here well before then. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 16:48, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

• Lean support. As opposed to the previous nomination, this one caused significant damage and casualties. However, it fails in quality; would require cleanup before further action can be taken; and please, don't reignite baseless accusations of sinophobia. Cheers, gavre (al. PenangLion) (talk) 08:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• support, Such a death toll for a restaurant makes the news. Alex-h (talk) 14:27, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support, per other comments, this event caused significant casualties and damage. It needs some work, but many articles on emerging events do - especially those on the other side of the globe. Glman99 (talk) 14:38, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose We should not play favourites contrary to NPOV by reporting one city but not the other. Note that there was also a recent gas explosion in Kiev. Perhaps a combination blurb might be posted? Andrew🐉(talk) 15:02, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  Now in Andrew's defense, before some of y'all violate him, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with the war, per the source and other coverage of the incident ([1][2]). In fact, the actual reason why this is a dopey point is that the explosion killed 3 people; a mere 10th of the amount killed at the Yichuan barbeque restaurant. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 15:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The Kyiv explosion doesn't have an article, so it's not eligible to be nominated. The Paris explosion discussion has been rejected because it didn't kill anyone. The 3 explosions are unconnected, so it doesn't make sense for there to be a combined blurb. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 15:24, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Revisiting this today, it doesn't appear that there's any detailed follow-up in the media. It's a wire story that went round the world once but that's all. And checking for more gas explosions, I find a report of another one of similar scale in South Africa. Such accidents seem commonplace. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:35, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

The Welkom mining explosion happened during illegal mining at a closed mine; the victims were taking an obviously huge risk. This explosion was at a restaurant, which makes it very different. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 14:12, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Support - high casualty, rare in China, and also IMO also has the twist of occuring in a barbeque restaurant. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 15:08, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

"the twist of occuring in a barbeque restaurant"? That fact raises its significance? GreatCaesarsGhost 15:45, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

No, that just makes it a little more interesting to me. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 18:02, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Agree with Thebiguglyalien regarding WP:EVENTCRIT. It could not more closely match this guidance "Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance." GreatCaesarsGhost 15:45, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

You're sure that over 30 people being killed by an explosion in a restaurant is routine?! Jim 2 Michael (talk) 18:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Opposewhy putting the focus on an explosion when many more people are celebrating the Dragon Boat Festival? The Dragon Boat Festival would have been a better nomination.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:57, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

This is ITN, not an events calendar. That's like saying we should post 'it's Christmas' instead of anything that happens on that day. Johndavies837 (talk) 18:30, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

It's like we should not blurb the winner of a tournament but the brawl that occurred during the tournament. The world has also nice things to report in which millions participate on not only tragedies that concern a few people. If you google 20< deaths you'll find all the time find something. What moves the world? Some deaths or 100< Millions people celebrating? Paradise Chronicle (talk) 01:38, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support. I hate playing this card, but we absolutely would have posted an accident with 31 deaths in the West (we posted the Canada highway accident with only half). Why is this one not significant? DarkSide830 (talk) 16:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Comment - I will say that by WP:EVENTCRIT, the Carberry highway collision (which i'd personally support deleting), the Canary Islands migrant boat disaster, and the Támara prison riot could probably all be deleted since they aren't really causing other notable events to occur or have a significant impact over a wide area. Onegreatjoke (talk) 16:33, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Though, if we're talking about deaths specifically than I would say Support for the main page. Onegreatjoke (talk) 18:19, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support per DarkSide830. I also feel there’s a pro-Western bias here. We’ve posted similar incidents with much lower death toll in the past. Why is this not significant?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 17:04, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Unusual disaster with a high death toll. Don’t get the people saying it fails EVENTCRIT. The Kip (talk) 18:17, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Unusual, a high death toll and in a public place. No doubt it would get posted if it occurred in the west. It's not at all comparable to Paris and Kyiv. Johndavies837 (talk) 18:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Unusual event, and one with such a high death toll would surely be posted if it happened in a western country. Systemic bias. Davey2116 (talk) 19:04, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support as per the arguments of the previous supporters. 30 dead is a high number; if the Paris gas explosion had resulted in 30 dead, wouldn't we have posted it? You know we would have. For those who say "this has no long-term impact" - well, that's a pure "Crystal Ball" statement... I would on the contrary expect that such a major incident will lead to a tightening of restaurant and gas-related regulations in China. Sadly, it may even have more impact than the 500 presumed dead in the Greek migrant ship disaster. Khuft (talk) 19:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Have any of the Supporters read the article? GreatCaesarsGhost 19:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  I supported on the basis that the quality would be deemed adequate by the community. It's fine for me, but I know others are probably a bit more stringent in terms of quality than I would be. Khuft (talk) 19:45, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  I realise I didn't add the quality aspect to my post previously - but anyway, to be clear: Support assuming quality is deemed acceptable. Khuft (talk) 19:47, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  I think they've made it quite clear that their stance is "multiple people died so it's obviously notable and significant". Fortunately, consensus on Wikipedia is held to a higher standard, so arguments to this effect and WP:WHATABOUTX arguments won't be seriously considered in any fair close. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 19:50, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  Respectfully, you've cited EVENTCRIT how many times recently? If you believe these items not sufficient to have pages, then why haven't you pursued their deletion? DarkSide830 (talk) 20:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  Because I'd like to take the least disruptive approach possible in addressing issues like this; nominating an article for deletion while it's under active discussion at ITN is not the way to go. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 20:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  I don't see the point of fearing being disruptive if you believe you are in the right on this. DarkSide830 (talk) 22:11, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  In the past, when WaltCip (talk · contribs) made the exact same point as you (not taking ITN noms to AFDs), you responded by stating that if something fails to meet our notability guidelines, then it should be nominated for deletion and it should not be posted to RD or ITN. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 02:46, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Events that occur routinely in a place might be considered ineligible for ITN (routine gun violence in a place rife with it, terrorist attacks in conflict ridden zones etc). Highly destructive explosions in restaurants in China are not a usual occurence and with the article being upto par this should not be held up. If its felt that the article is not encyclopedically notable for enwiki's purpose then AfD exists but that is not within the purview of ITN (an AfD nom would immediately hold this up from posting, so anyone proposing that should pursue it there). Gotitbro (talk) 10:09, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• Comment: Regardless of the growing support to post, this article is by no means ready. It's more or less 8-12 disjointed sentences. Needs work before posting can be considered. Anarchyte (talk) 10:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't describe the writing as disjointed, though I can see the case for saying the article should be improved before posting. The problem is its lack of editors. Many millions of people find five people being killed in the Atlantic to be very interesting & important, but a comparatively tiny number are interested in incidents in which over 30 people were killed in China, over 40 in Uganda & over 40 in Honduras. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 11:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support on importance if that bus crash isn't routine, then this isn't either. — PerfectSoundWhatever (t; c) 17:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 23:04, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with posting this, but why is the type of restaurant and number of injured important enough for the blurb? Jim 2 Michael (talk) 23:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I've adjusted the blurb to the alternate. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 02:37, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Hey Ingenuity (talk · contribs), welcome to ITN and congratulations on you're recent RFA, but in the future, when posting an item, please remember to mark the header with (Posted) (and failed discussions as (Closed) and withdrawn as (Withdrawn) and so forth). Thanks! - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 01:31, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Adding to this, @Ingenuity, please give both Ainty Painty and I credit using the “give credit” button. It ain’t much, but it means a lot (at least to me). Thanks! Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 02:26, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, @Knightoftheswords281 and @Fakescientist8000 -- I've given credit now. — Ingenuity (talk • contribs) 02:30, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, and welcome! Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 02:31, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

No problem! - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 02:40, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

June 21

Portal:Current events/2023 June 21

June 21, 2023 (2023-06-21) (Wednesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israeli–Palestinian conflict A Palestinian man is killed and several others are injured by Israeli settlers in Turmus Ayya. (BBC News) An Israeli drone conducts the first airstrike on the West Bank since 2005, targeting a car, and killing two PIJ members and an Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades member. (Middle East Eye) Business and economy The U.S. Food and Drug Administration approves Upside Foods and Good Meat's applications to commercially sell lab-grown meat, making the United States the second country in the world to allow its sale after Singapore. (Al Jazeera) Disasters and accidents 2023 Paris explosion Around 50 people are injured and one is missing after an explosion and fire on Rue Saint-Jacques in Paris, France. (CNN) 2023 Canary Islands migrant boat disaster At least 35 people are missing after a dinghy carrying migrants sinks off the coast of the Canary Islands, Spain. (Reuters) 2023 Yinchuan gas explosion Thirty-one people are killed and seven others are injured by a gas explosion at a restaurant in Yinchuan, China. (CNN) Two people are killed and 31 others are injured by a train crash near M'saken, Sousse Governorate, Tunisia. (Africanews) Four people are killed and several others are injured after a tornado rips through the town of Matador, Texas, United States. (Reuters) International relations Israel–Morocco relations Morocco cancels this year's Negev Summit meeting in response to Israel approving the construction of over 4,500 settlements in the occupied West Bank on Sunday. (Middle East Eye) Law and crime Two people are injured in a stabbing at the Central Middlesex Hospital in Park Royal, London, United Kingdom. (Reuters) A court in Belarus sentences 18 participants who took part in the 2020 election protests against President Alexander Lukashenko to between 2 and 25 years imprisonment. (AP) Russian prosecutor-general Igor Krasnov designates international non-governmental organization World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) as an "undesirable organization", effectively prohibiting the organization from operating in the country. Krasnov claims that WWF's campaigns threaten Russian economic development, particularly in the energy sector. (Reuters)

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(Closed) Paris gas explosion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2023 Paris gas explosion (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ A suspected gas explosion in central Paris injures at least 29 people. (Post)
News source(s): https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/21/europe/paris-explosion-intl/index.html
Credits:

• Nominated by Actualcpscm (talk · give credit)
• Created by FatCat96 (talk · give credit)

 Actualcpscm (talk) 20:12, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. No deaths, and there is barely any content in the article, which brings up the question of article notability in general. DarkSide830 (talk) 20:18, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Wait This happened two and a half hours ago. While the details and notability of some things are understood instantly, this is more like 'there's a fire in Paris, not sure what happened'. Maybe it's something, maybe it isn't. Kingsif (talk) 20:22, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose No deaths, stubby article. The Kip (talk) 20:33, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose This is the type of news story (some injuries, minimal damage, simple accident) that we should not have an article per NEVENT. --Masem (t) 20:55, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Regional news at best. Sad, but luckily no deathsParadise Chronicle (talk) 23:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Wait We don't have any new information about it yet. BattleshipMan (talk) 00:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Unusual but not a major story, except for the fact it happened in Paris. There's actually a breaking news story right now about a gas explosion in China which has killed 31 people at a restaurant. I think that one would be more suitable for ITN. Johndavies837 (talk) 03:06, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - No deaths and no real impact. Onegreatjoke (talk) 03:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose good faith nom per Masem. Not confident it even passes NEVENT. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:58, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Canary migrant boat disaster

Article: Canary Islands migrant boat disaster (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ About 40 people are missing after a migrant dinghy sinks off the coast of the Spanish Canary Islands in the Atlantic. (Post)
News source(s): The Guardian - Al Jazeera - Reuters - AP - WaPo
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Another week, another maritime disaster. This time, up to 40 people are feared dead after a dingy carrying migrants off the infamously fatal West Africa to Canaries route sunk. The article is for the most part decent, except the Aftermath section needs expansion. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 18:55, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

*Oppose While the disaster is tragic, it’s the fifth such event for which we have an article this year. Since it’s smuggling, the practice is illegal, boats are overloaded and they eventually sink. As long as there are no stricter controls in the Mediterranean Sea, this practice will continue and such disasters will likely happen.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

This one was in the Atlantic, but yes. Kingsif (talk) 20:19, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Never mind. It’s the same story.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 05:09, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose It's tragic, but like mass shootings in the US, migrants ships sinking en route to Europe is a story we all know now. I'm not going to call it routine, it's not that level, but it's the same story with different specifics. Before anyone gets righteous about posting the Titanic submersible, when's the last time one of those disappeared? Also opposing on quality, with the article reading somewhat scare headline-y. Kingsif (talk) 20:19, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kingsif. A tragic event, but unfortunately not an uncommon one. The Kip (talk) 20:34, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose tragic routine in Spanish waters. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:57, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kingsif. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Dinghy No strong feelings about the event which seems similar to the other WP:NEWSEVENTS that we're running now. But just wanted to note the more usual spelling of dinghy. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support - the idea that four rich people voluntarily going to the bottom of the ocean in a high school level science project and going missing should be featured but 40 migrants drowning should not be is one of the sillier things Ive seen on this page. nableezy - 12:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Neutral, but not inherently opposed to posting. I'm of two minds: one, I agree with Kingsif in that migrant ships capsizing is an unfortunately all too common occurrence. However, the other thought is that not posting this could lead to a perception of undue weight on the main page: that we're willing to post a five man $250,000 per ticket submarine missing but not a human rights problem. I'm concerned that at least while we have Titan on the main page, we should be more open to posting other disappearances and crises before returning to regularly scheduled arguments of routine. Anarchyte (talk) 12:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose An unfortunately routine occurrence in Spain and its waters lowers this nomination's significance. Johannes Frederick-Gaitan (talk) 13:14, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support, Incidents like this should never be considered routine. Alex-h (talk) 14:34, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per many others. And good point by Nableezy, but I wanted to pull that one as well.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  But thats not the world we live in, and what we have now is a pretty blatant example of the systemic bias of Wikipedia's editor base. nableezy - 15:22, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  While I wouldn't have posted the submersible based solely on the impact of the event (and, indeed, did not voice my support during the discussion), this has far, far more to do with the bias of the news media than the editor base. Many media outlets have a liveblog pushing out articles about the Titan, and that's not the case here. Kicking222 (talk) 15:56, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Many media outlets were likewise obsessed with the Will Smith–Chris Rock slapping incident, Depp v. Heard, Anne Heche's car crash & Andrew Tate - giving a string of articles & videos updating their many likewise-obsessed readers on the latest developments/reactions. If huge media coverage were enough to post, all of those would've been blurbed. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 19:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support but only ad hoc. My reasoning that such incidents are quite common still stands but, after noticing that the missing submersible with billionaires aboard is on the main page, this should be posted to balance the scales. I don’t like a world in which aircrafts, submarines and politicians are involved to save the lives of five rich people, whereas no-one cares about the lives of dozens of poor people who want to migrate to Europe for a better life.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:59, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support. I get the argument that these events are relatively common, but I stull find it hard to justify us having posted the sub incident but not this when it involves 8x more people. DarkSide830 (talk) 16:26, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support per above. I realize that the argument of "we posted X so we must post Y" usually isn't sufficient, but in this case it'd just be such a bad look if we posted the five wealthy people's $250k joyride and didn't post this. I would like the article to be more fleshed out though. Davey2116 (talk) 17:39, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• I'd need to look at precedents to consider whether we'd post something like this absent the Titan, but if the comparison to that is the only reason to support, then I'd oppose per Kingsif. Our primary concern should be maintaining consistent standards, not optics. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:04, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  FWIW, I'd say you could comp to the Canada highway crash as well, which has less then half the casualties. DarkSide830 (talk) 20:42, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Just as we don't post every mass shooting in the US, we do post those that result in massive casualties. I think we should apply the same logic in this case - migrant boat disasters that result in massive casualties should be posted, assuming quality of the article holds up.Khuft (talk) 19:36, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Comment to expand on where I wrote Before anyone gets righteous about posting the Titanic submersible, when's the last time one of those disappeared? - if people think part of ITN's purpose is to make sure Wikipedia doesn't look like it dislikes migrants, someone can judge that argument. But if we're mostly pointing readers to articles they might like to read related to news, I don't think most people will be bothered with the article on this; it's the same story, is all. But I suppose there's already talk discussion on ITN's purpose... Kingsif (talk) 22:16, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per Kingsif. This type of events have been happening multiple times annually for the past few years and there is no reason to believe that they will become less common anytime soon for many reasons. We should limit posting migrant boat disasters around Europe to ones with at least 50 people dead or missing, taking into account the ones we have posted before. StellarHalo (talk) 06:59, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. You know the drill. No lasting effect, no scope affecting entire regions of people, no sustained coverage? No reason to give it focus in an encyclopedia. And no, "it could have these some day" isn't good enough. No, neither is "but 40 people died". Thebiguglyalien (talk) 03:21, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

June 20

Portal:Current events/2023 June 20

June 20, 2023 (2023-06-20) (Tuesday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israeli–Palestinian conflict 2023 Eli shooting Hamas kill four Israelis and injure four others in a mass shooting at a restaurant and a petrol station near the Israeli settlement of Eli in the occupied West Bank. The two gunmen are killed by a civilian and a soldier. (BBC News) Spillover of the Somali Civil War Seven people are killed and seven more injured when a police car and a public service vehicle are targeted by two roadside bombings at two different locations in Mandera County, Kenya. (Reuters) Business and economy China–Pakistan relations The China National Nuclear Corporation and the Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission sign a US$4.8 billion deal to construct the fifth unit at the Chashma Nuclear Power Plant, Pakistan's seventh nuclear power plant, in Punjab. (Reuters via CNN) Health and environment Whaling in Iceland Fisheries and Agriculture Minister Svandís Svavarsdóttir announces that all whaling operations will be suspended in the country until 31 August at the earliest, citing welfare concerns after a video emerged of a hunted whale dying in agony over a five-hour period. (Al Jazeera) Law and crime War crimes in Afghanistan Tasmanian Senator Jacqui Lambie announces that she has referred several members of the Australian Defence Force to the International Criminal Court for alleged war crimes during the war in Afghanistan. (Canberra Times) Támara prison riot At least 41 inmates are killed and seven others are injured during a riot at a women's prison in Támara, near Tegucigalpa, Honduras. (AP) French police raid the Saint-Denis offices of the 2024 Parisian Summer Olympics organization committee and the headquarters of contracted construction company Solideo, over allegations of corruption. (BBC News) Hunter Biden, son of United States President Joe Biden, is provided a plea deal for misdemeanor offenses relating to failing to pay federal taxes. A further offense of owning a firearm while lying about being an illegal drug user will be dismissed, following a two-year probation. (The Guardian) Influencer Andrew Tate is charged by Romanian authorities with rape, human trafficking, and forming an organized crime group as part of an ongoing investigation. (BBC News) Politics and elections 2023 Finnish parliamentary election Petteri Orpo is officially appointed as the 47th prime minister of Finland and forms his cabinet. (Reuters) LGBT rights in Estonia Estonia passes a bill legalising same-sex marriage and same-sex adoption by 2024, becoming the first Baltic and post-Soviet state to do so. (CNN) Education in South Korea The Ministry of Education announces plans to reform the College Scholastic Ability Test by removing questions unrelated to the curriculum taught in state schools. Education Minister Lee Ju-ho says that the reform aims to minimize students' dependence on hagwons and address the negative consequences of high-pressure education on students, citing the correlation with South Korea's high suicide rates. (AFP via ABS-CBN News)

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RD: Sylvester da Cunha

Article: Sylvester da Cunha (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BBC
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Ktin (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Indian advertising professional. Amul girl campaign. Ktin (talk) 05:08, 24 June 2023 (UTC)

RD: Phyllis Gomda Hsi

Article: Phyllis Gomda Hsi (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://focustaiwan.tw/culture/202306220013
Credits:

• Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Taiwanese vocalist. Article looks alright Onegreatjoke (talk) 02:00, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Article could use more than 4 sources, but that's just a nitpick. Article looks good enough for ITNRD. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 13:21, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support. Article is short, but fully cited and has no maintenance tags. To my eye, it's ready for RD. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 13:28, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) Honduras prison riot

Article: Támara prison riot (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Honduras, at least 46 inmates are killed in a riot in a women's prison near Tegucigalpa. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Honduras, a riot between MS-13 and Barrio 18 gang members at a women's prison near Tegucigalpa kills at least 46 people.
News source(s): AP - Reuters - The Guardian - CBS - DW
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: 41 people were killed in a women's prison in Honduras. Most were burned to death. The article is in need of serious expansion (in fact, I literally just created it), but should be significant to post. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 21:56, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• This? Your nominator's comment has more content than the article. Write the article first, then nominate. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

While it's been somewhat expanded since, this is becoming a recurring issue. The Kip (talk) 22:27, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Comment - @Muboshgu, The Kip, and Paradise Chronicle:, article has been expanded. The riot section is a bit small, but government authorities aren't disclosing too many details and this story just broke, so that's the most I can do. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 23:25, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Weak Support - while the section on the riot is kind of small. It's definitely not a stub anymore. Onegreatjoke (talk) 02:17, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on qualityI am sure we have better nominations to fill the ITN slots.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 22:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality Article is a stub. The Kip (talk) 22:24, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Changing to Support as it's no longer a stub. The Kip (talk) 20:36, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Comment The current second paragraph of the background seems completely unnecessary as it has nothing directly to do with what led to the riot. It wasn't about rival gangs in different prisons, or contraband or guards or anything like that. --Masem (t) 02:36, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

  It wasn't about rival gangs

  It literally was; the source of the riot was over the rivalry between MS-13 and the Barrio 18, which was present in this prison. The riot started when members of the latter opened fire and set fires around members of the former. Stuff like this, while typically nowhere near this scale, is common in Honduras, so I don't see why it hurts to have a background giving in depth information about Honduras' flawed prison system, which elsewhere is nearly universally mentioned in coverage of this story (DW, BBC, NYT, Reuters, AP, etc.). - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 03:42, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

  I don't see why it hurts to have a background giving in depth information about Honduras' flawed prison system is basically a POV statement. I don't see the value of immediate discussion of the flawed prison system unless it clearly is the direct cause of the event. Masem (t) 13:31, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support This is a new topic and the nominator and others have gotten this to a respectable state quite quickly so that the reader will not be disappointed or surprised by the article. Its importance is debatable but seems comparable with the existing blurbs which are staler. The blurb which would be displaced by this is over a week old. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:12, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on notability. Thanks for the expansion, but such events are often mentioned in a side comment or the trivia section. That it is included in the Americas (and not the world) by Reuters and the Guardian lets me doubt it is notable enough. It's an event in a prison that doesn't affect many people. If a policy change derives from it, it might be worth an article long enough for DYK.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 10:38, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support we had a flood of support for a monarch dying of old age, and a relatively obscure American football player, but not when over 40 people die in violent and unusual circumstances; we posted a road traffic accident in Canada with less than a third of the casualties. Also this was reported worldwide, far outside the Americas and even the Spanish speaking regions. Abcmaxx (talk) 11:18, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Weak support - Decent depth of coverage; significant impact based on those affected; probably limited consequences as far as a reaction from the government due to the recurrent nature of prison gangs; and a decently written Wiki article. --Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 12:53, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support because the article is good enough & the death toll & gang involvement make it easily important enough. This is far more notable than the natural death of elderly, long-retired Jim Brown, who certainly didn't meet the transformative requirement for death blurbs. This riot is also far more important than the 2023 Titan submersible incident, a minnow of a story that much of the media & many millions of people are inexplicably obsessed with as though 500 people were onboard rather than 5. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 14:52, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• @Admins willing to post ITN: , marking as Ready. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 17:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support as this is an unusually serious incident for a women’s prison and unmarking as ready due to WP:COI.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 20:16, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

  WP:COI is about writing article content for things/individuals you're directly connected to; marking a nom ready is not. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 14:36, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  @Knightoftheswords281: Okay, it isn’t per WP:COI but per “conflict of interest”. Marking your own nomination as “Ready” is a classical example of a conflict of interest and should be avoided (compare this to closing a nomination in which you’ve participated or posting a nomination in which you’ve voted). I was reproached for doing the same thing in the past.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 16:08, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Original Blurb. The alt goes a little more in depth then we need really. DarkSide830 (talk) 20:20, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Comment this has enough support to be posted, but I'm leery about this line: "Public Prosecutor's Office spokesperson Yuri Mora stated that the government could not confirm specifics regarding the incident at the moment." I just updated the death toll with a source (it's 46 now, up from 41), and I'm not sure the article adequately covers the (horrifying) specifics that have emerged (see e.g. AP, Guardian ). If someone can finish updating, I'll post. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 15:37, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Original Blurb - Agree that the alt blurb has too much detail. Article is in decent shape, event is notable. Jusdafax (talk) 00:50, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Stephen 02:11, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

RD: Big Pokey

Article: Big Pokey (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): KHOU11 - CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Basel15 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by 2601:2c5:4180:15e0:bc37:8ac:c87d:7c13 (talk · give credit), Beemer69 (talk · give credit) and Amrita.noid (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Someone from my area, Houston. Apparently, a big figure in this area's rap scene (never heard of him though). - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 19:12, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Orange tag, uncited areas, not long enough, and for those reasons, I'm out. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 19:42, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Not Ready for the usual reason. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
• Procedural Oppose per above This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 21:13, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Same-sex marriage in Estonia

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: Recognition of same-sex unions in Estonia (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ Estonia becomes first post-Soviet state to allow same-sex marriage (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ Estonia becomes first Baltic state to allow same-sex marriage
News source(s): Reuters – Euronews – France24 – The Washington Post
Credits:

• Nominated by PrinceofPunjab (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: A pretty historic step for LGBTQ+ and Human Rights in general in Soviet sphere of influence. User:PrinceofPunjab 11:22 20 June 2023 (UTC) 

• Comment Whilst this is unimportant and a bit of a nitpick, according to the UN geoscheme (and Estonia's Wikipedia article) Estonia is in Northern Europe, not Central Europe, though other definitions of course include it in Central or Eastern Europe for historical/cultural reasons. By my count it's the sixth Northern European (basing off of the geoscheme) country to legalize same-sex marriage. Sorry for the tangent, but the blurb may need changing depending on where we want to place Estonia. Good day! 90.133.49.134 (talk) 12:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

I have changed to it to Post-soviet state to better reflect the significance of this story.–PrinceofPunjab (talk) 12:39 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Comment Not entirely opposed to this, but our article states that it won't take effect until 1 January 2024. -- AxG / ✉  15:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

in which case the blurb should say "will become" Abcmaxx (talk) 15:51, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose I and many others have previously nominated abolitions of the death penalty and decriminalisations of various nature, including same-sex marriages and they were all overwhelmingly rejected; therefore unless we choose to change precedent then I fail to see how this is any different, especially as nearly all European countries have movements striving for the same if they have not already done so. Abcmaxx (talk) 15:55, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose/wait until 2024, when it comes into effect. DecafPotato (talk) 17:10, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose because many countries have changed their laws in regard to LGBT issues & many other things regarding various demographic groups. Being the first country in the world to do something is often important enough, but being the first Baltic/Slavic/Mediterranean/C American/SE Asian/C African etc. doesn't make it important. If we posted all these sorts of law changes, they'd always be present on ITN. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 19:53, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support inasmuch as there is precedent, c.f. Costa Rica, Taiwan, et. al. This post was made by orbitalbuzzsaw gang (talk) 19:55, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose Is “the first post Soviet state” or “the first Baltic state” really that important? I don’t think so. The former refers to a country that ceased to exist more than 30 years ago and the latter is a geographical area consisting of only three countries. Otherwise, it seems like a routine thing.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:27, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose While I'm happy this happened, there's a much higher bar on ITN to post such legalizations (ex. the first in a historically-hostile region such as the Middle East or East Africa); the first Baltic/post-Soviet state is a lower bar, especially when much of Europe has already done so. The Kip (talk) 21:47, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Paxton Whitehead

Article: Paxton Whitehead (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Hollywood Reporter Deadline Yahoo
Credits:

• Nominated by 2001:BB6:4E52:7D00:28BA:F4D6:819F:68F6 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Nohomersryan (talk · give credit) and and others (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Stage and Screen (Broadway, Film, and TV) Actor, Tony Award Nominee. B-Class article. 2001:BB6:4E52:7D00:28BA:F4D6:819F:68F6 (talk) 10:00, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality Quite a few unsourced statements in the prose and the Stage productions section is entirely unsourced. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 17:53, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Update - The article, including the Work section, is now fully sourced. Several more citations have since been added and now the prose does not contain any unsourced statements. The list of early UK stage productions from 1949 on has been moved to the talk page and will only be moved back into the article if and when appropriate sourcing can be found. There are links to Broadway and Off-Broadway databases that list other productions he appeared in in the US and the Work section and Filmography are all now fully sourced. The article looks to be in good shape overall now and given its B-class, and with all the references, I think it's of high quality overall.2001:BB6:4E52:7D00:28BA:F4D6:819F:68F6 (talk) 23:11, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Have added a citation for the DOB; rest looked solid. Schwede66 09:16, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

June 19

Portal:Current events/2023 June 19

June 19, 2023 (2023-06-19) (Monday) Armed conflicts and attacks Israeli–Palestinian conflict June 2023 Jenin incursion Six Palestinians are killed and 90 others are injured during an IDF raid in the Jenin refugee camp in the occupied West Bank. (Al Jazeera) (Al Jazeera) Arts and culture The mayor of the Nepali capital of Kathmandu, Balen Shah, bans the screenings of Indian films after dialogue in the recent epic film Adipurush stated that Sita from Hindu mythology was born in India instead of Nepal. (Al Jazeera) Business and economy Indian low-cost airline IndiGo reaches a deal with European aerospace manufacturer Airbus to order 500 A320 aircraft, which will be delivered from 2030 to 2035, making it the largest single purchase agreement in commercial aviation. (CNN) Disasters and accidents Titan submersible implosion The submersible Titan, carrying tourists to the wreck of the RMS Titanic, is reported missing, with the United States Coast Guard attempting to locate the missing vessel. (CBS News) Health and environment The United Nations General Assembly unanimously adopts the High Seas Treaty, the first treaty aimed towards marine conservation in international waters. (The Hill) A report to the Japanese National Diet revealed that from the end of World War II to 1996 over 25,000 Japanese citizens were forcibly sterilized under their eugenics law, including two nine-year-olds. (BBC News) International relations Qatar–United Arab Emirates relations The foreign ministries of Qatar and the United Arab Emirates announce that they will restore diplomatic relations and reopen their embassies in Doha and Abu Dhabi, after relations were suspended six years ago during the Qatar diplomatic crisis. (Al Jazeera) Law and crime Moldovan protests The Constitutional Court of Moldova outlaws the Șor Party after accusations that the party was trying to undermine the rule of law during the recent protests in Moldova. (Reuters) Commons Privileges Committee investigation into Boris Johnson, Partygate MPs vote to support the report issued by Parliament into former Prime Minister Boris Johnson. (BBC News) Six people are killed and eight others injured in a shootout between rival gangs on a street in Guayaquil, Guayas, Ecuador. (AFP via France 24) Sports Racism in association football The New Zealand national team abandon their friendly against Qatar at half-time in protest at a Qatari player's alleged use of a racial slur against New Zealand defender Michael Boxall, who is half Samoan. (CNN)

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(Posted) RD: Gabriele Schnaut

Article: Gabriele Schnaut (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): NDR, Vienna State Opera
Credits:

• Nominated by Tails Wx (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Slabbath (talk · give credit) and Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German classical singer, article looks in good shape! Tails Wx 18:47, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

I've placed two citation needed tags. Schwede66 20:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Schwede66, I found one tag, and a review, however without a year, other sources have both 1992 and 1993, and does it matter? I found a ref for the day of birth. The NDR ref above has no day of death, but the Vienna State Opera ref has one. I'd like to check the 10-years-old refs but not today. Please look first at the composer below whose birthday is today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:58, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support looks all good, and as with the aforementioned other composer, an incredible job by Gerda Arendt. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 21:09, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted article appears to be thoroughly referenced and the comment above dealt with. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 23:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you, Ed, but my comment above was that I needed sleep before checking the old refs. I went over them now, and found things to add. - Next time, please credit ;) - I had to dig in the archive to find out when she was added to ITN. - The composer, whose birthday was yesterday, didn't make it although he seemed more "ready" to me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:13, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) Titanic submersible incident

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2023 Titan submersible incident (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In the Atlantic, a submersible carrying five people towards the wreckage of the Titanic and operated by OceanGate Expeditions goes missing off the coast of Newfoundland, Canada. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In the Atlantic, a submersible carrying five people goes missing on an expedition to view the wreck of the Titanic.
News source(s): NYT - Reuters - CNN - CBC - BBC - AP
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Jim 2 Michael (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: Biggest news story in the US and Canada, front page of The New York Times, CNN, CBC, The Toronto Star, AP, and even international outlets like BBC, France24, The Independent, El Pais, DW, Le Monde, etc. Even if they are rescued and don't die, the story in of itself is still noteworthy of inclusion on ITN, especially considering that our readers are definitely looking for this on Wikipedia (I mean, just look how many vandals are in the page's history). Also a good chance to feature a GA article on ITN (that being Wreck of the Titanic). Plus, something that makes this a little unique is that one of the believed passengers himself is notable enough to have his own article (Hamish Harding). The article needs a little more expansion, but its not unworkable. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 22:19, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support altblurb I was about to nominate the article myself. I know some people are going to object, but it's a highly unusual incident, involves a famous wreck, has at least one notable passenger and it's making headlines everywhere. No doubt there will be a lot of coverage, regardless of the outcome. The nominated article is a bit short but not too bad. However, I think the blurb should mention the Titanic. Johndavies837 (talk) 22:32, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

I added an altblurb which includes the Titanic (although I see the nominator has already edited the original include Titanic). The altblurb is a little less wordy. Johndavies837 (talk) 22:49, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait Until we have an idea of which way this resolves. If rescued, then the story is the rescue (similar to the Thailand cave rescue). If not, then this would fall under the unusual death of a notable person like with the Kobe Bryant helicopter crash (assuming he was on board, that doesn't seem confirmed) --Masem (t) 22:56, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Hamish Harding (the one pictured) is confirmed by his family, according to the BBC, and also named by Sky News and The Guardian (among others). I think it's the other person mentioned on the page, Stockton Rush, who isn't clearly confirmed yet. Johndavies837 (talk) 23:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Respectfully, while Harding does have an article, can we really put him in the same category as Bryant. Seems like he's mostly notable for being...a tourist. DarkSide830 (talk) 00:14, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

If the worst, this would fall into "death is an unusual circumstance", it would not be blurbing for importance. Masem (t) 01:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Minor celebrity of borderline notability dies in unusual circumstance does not meet the threshold.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:25, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

We have posted, for example, the death of a notable givt official in a military helicopter crash, and the death of the soccer team with multiple notable people from that airline crash. "Unusual death" has never required the person to be important, just notable. Masem (t) 14:24, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait, obviously. 5 people going missing may be tragic, but is hardly unprecedented. Let's see how this develops first. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:50, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Wow, we're really posting this alreeady? This just reads as a human interest story at the moment, and likely will remain one. "Front Page Coverage" wins again I guess. DarkSide830 (talk) 17:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait per above. Still lots to play out, if they're hopefully found alive it probably doesn't merit a blurb barring a rescue attempt by unprecedented means. The Kip (talk) 23:57, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait, per Masem.

TomcatEnthusiast1986 (talk) 23:58, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait we don't even know if these people are dead, and even if they are, stuff like this happen all the time. Either way, this is not ITN-worthy, but I'd say that we should wait to see if they are found alive or dead, and, if it is missing for more than 96 hours, then sure. Editor 5426387 (talk) 00:03, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  stuff like this happen all the time.

  I don't remember the last time I heard about a tourist sub disappearing. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 11:17, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Wait: As others said, it's a current/ongoing event. The situation can change at any notice hence the article can be unreliable at the moment. Rager7 (talk) 00:23, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Wait - I'm concerned about the claim of being "front page news". For example, Toronto Star's most recent edition contained 3 stories (sports, local mayoral election, and bigotry around bathrooms). Do we mean their website? Their "front page" has 80 stories on it. And this isn't at the top (which remains to be illegal Chinese interference in Canadian elections, or second (which is the bus crash we discuss below). Often the top stories quickly drop down the page, as some highlight recent news. It's a non-story if they find it floating on the surface somewhere. Nfitz (talk) 00:59, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Don't really get this point. First of all I linked the Toronto Star's webpage, so its pretty obvious that I'm referring to their website. Secondly, even using your criteria of first or second, that's literally one example; in fact, hours later, most of the sources I used and many others still have it in at least 3rd. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 01:43, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  As we say on the instruction page, we do not use location of a story on dynamic websites to judge importance. Additionally, today is a slow news day, so there's little else taking up top news. Masem (t) 01:45, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Still, the fact that its frontpage news clearly demonstrates significance. Besides, the part you're quoting doesn't even explicitly forbid using that argument, it just says that it cannot be used as a primary argument. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 01:50, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  No, just because a story is on the front page doesn't mean it is encyclopedically significant, particularly when it comes to politics. This is the systematic bias related to mainstream news sources we purpose fight against. Masem (t) 01:54, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  I've been hearing this mantra about how ITN is supposed to combat the systemic bias from the mainstream media for a while, especially from you, but I can't find anything on WP:ITN or its subpages where this is even semi-concretely defined. In fact, I somewhat doubt that, considering that if you were to use that argument anywhere else on the project, you'd get laughed out the room per WP:RS.

  I guess I should maybe clarify/rollback some of my comments and state that I don't think that having a story on the front page = noteworthiness, just that it implies it (@The Kip:). Just that it implies it. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 02:00, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  The entire encyclopedia is to fight systematic bias per WP:BIAS. Its while WP:NOT#NEWS and WP:NEVENTS exist. And while we may not explicitly state it in the ITN guidelines, it should be clear from all past discussions that we've had in the last few months that simple mass media coverage is not reason to post on ITN. Masem (t) 02:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  If we ran this page solely based off what was front-page news, we'd become inundated with celebrity gossip extremely quickly.

  I understand your passion for ITN, but you're quickly establishing a reputation as believing comparatively minor stories and figures to be truly newsworthy, in contrast to the long-held standards here. The Kip (talk) 01:56, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  in contrast to the long-held standards here

  The issue is that there aren't standards, not anymore at least. ITN in 2013 used to post head of state changes. Today in 2023, its not uncommon for the fate of a nominated story to fall on which part of the world was asleep at the time of nomination. I'm (just like almost everyone else here) pushing for defined standards to exist, but no one here can agree and every attempted significance standard eventually falls to the wayside (e.g, see WaltCip (talk · contribs)'s recent significance criteria). Doesn't help that ITN reform is a low priority of the outside community. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 02:04, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  If you are on Wikipedia looking for "defined standards", you're in the wrong place. We work by consensus, in all parts of the encyclopedia, not just ITN. Yes, we do rely on an unwritten casebook of shared knowledge of what we usually post and don't post, but in discussions of trying to write anything down, editors are wary that that type of list would be gamed, no matter how its framed. So we go by consensus. Masem (t) 12:17, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  As much as I feel disappointed that DICE did not catch on, I still happily use it when judging contentious nominations. The concept of assessing depth, impact, consequences and encyclopedicness(?!) is a good way to outline a constructive and thoughtful rationale that admins can then take into account when weighing consensus on the strength of arguments, for it already has its roots in existing Wikipedia policies (particularly WP:NOTNEWS). It also helps provide context to some people who may have reached premature conclusions about an item's significance. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 17:50, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  If we are talking the front pages of websites, User:Knightoftheswords281, this seems pretty meaningless when we have sites like BBC have 80+ articles on webpage, and more-and-more websites are showing stories regionally and based on the User's interests. That being said, today's actual front page did indeed have the Titanic on it. It also had a huge profile on Josh Matlow; I'll have to prepare an ITN nomination for the result of 2023 Toronto mayoral by-election, as the mayor of the City of Toronto is by far the largest single vote in the nation - and a higher population than Lithuania. Also featured are the TDSB's enrollment issues and TCHC's crumbling infrastructure (that's probably an ongoing). Oddly, it's not on the front page of The Globe and Mail despite being a slow news day; it finally appears on page A8, behind such ITN stories as Tibetan Schools, Ukraine war, Boris Johnson, the assassination of Hardeep Singh Nijjar (why isn't that an RD - go for it - I'm not joking), Bill C-18 (that really might be ITN one day), the Chatham Coloured All-Stars and the assassination of Julius Cæsar. Nfitz (talk) 03:04, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Sort of story we should feature on ITN. Readers will likely turn to Wikipedia for background. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:16, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Thanks for breaking the dam, Hawkeye7. We don't need an outcome to post a quality and in demand article to ITN. Posting this is the point of why we're doing this. Blurbs can and will be updated as the reliably sourced facts are. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:12, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support - The disappearance is the current major story. Per Muboshgu, an update can be posted whichever way the story ends. Mjroots (talk) 05:31, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose What is the story here? That the submersible has been missing for one whole day? Nothing significant has happened as of yet beyond rescue efforts being initiated. Did we for instance feature Malaysia Airlines Flight 370? We can't predict which specific missing stories snowball beyond the usual ones (even then this hasn't), we thus can only post outcomes and no official statements exist as to that right now. Gotitbro (talk) 05:46, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

It has already 'snowballed beyond the usual ones' because it's being widely reported around the world. It's... In The News. No matter how it ends, it will be notable. And I fail to see the comparison but yes, Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was featured. Johndavies837 (talk) 05:56, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Did we for instance feature Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?

Yes we did (btw, sidenote, why did admins/closers of old ITN discussions use square brackets instead of parentheses? Completely fucked up the links above for some time. And we were doing this for years on end?) - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 06:08, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow-up, striking an outright oppose. But would still like to wait for some statement from the authorities. Gotitbro (talk) 08:03, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Notice those MH370 were all after a definitive answer was made, even though the disappearance of the flight was in the news for some time before that. Masem (t) 12:18, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

No it wasn't. The old revision linked by Johndavies837 was from about 16 hours after the disappearance of MH370 --Gimmethegepgun (talk) 15:16, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support The title of the article isn't obvious and there's currently a move proposal. One of ITN's functions is navigation – helping readers to find topics which are in the news. They will be looking for the article now and so waiting is not helpful. Andrew🐉(talk) 06:25, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support The disappearance and the rescue efforts are "in the news". The Guardian has even started a live ticker on the top of their website, next to the Ukraine war update. It's a sui generis news item that is obviously captivating the interest of many people. I also agree with previous commentators that users are bound to search for more information on this submersible, so we should make it easily accessible. Khuft (talk) 08:07, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose. ITN is not a news ticker, and although worrying for the people involved, this is really a flash-in-the-pan incident, unlikely to have lasting impact and also not meeting the WP:MINIMUMDEATHS threshold.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:23, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Thanks for linking to an essay on Minimum Deaths that just confirms that this policy doesn't exist. Khuft (talk) 08:38, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Should a userspace essay have the WP:MINIMUMDEATHS shortcut? I don't think it should. We deleted the redirect for IntoThinAir's essay for that reason. This is just going to cause needless confusion and disruption. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 19:26, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

The irony of you linking to WP:MINIMUMDEATHS... - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 08:39, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Of course it exists. Everyone knows it exists, because we all apply it regularly here, it's just that like everything in ITN, nobody wants to write it down.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:39, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

@Amakuru I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong but I don't understand why you're linking to a page that says exactly the opposite. It doesn't help your argument, does it...? BorgQueen (talk) 18:03, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

That page was created disruptively and probably should not have that redirect. WP:MINIMUMDEATHS has been redlinked for years intentionally. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 19:31, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. Some people apply a minimum death criterion, others don't, but the often-used redlink redirect should not have been pointed to an essay with must one person's perspective on this. It should be deleted.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:32, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support alt blurb Whether they're found alive or dead, the sub's disappearance is in the news. The article has enough details & references to be posted. I prefer the alt blurb b/c it's more concise. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 11:22, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support alt blurb Target article looks ready (I saw no sourcing issues), and this is clearly a notable (and honestly, a bit unusual) disappearance. Whatever happens in the end, this falls under ITN with all the currently known facts and details. Vida0007 (talk) 12:27, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support alt blurb The media is hyping the hell out of this story, and time is running out. We had best post it while it's at the peak of its notability. The newsworthiness naturally will recede if we choose to wait until the outlook becomes terminal. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support - Good enough article. ITN worthy. Blurb is appropriate.BabbaQ (talk) 13:17, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support wait for what exactly? this story is captivating the attention of the world due to its novelty and grim reminder that the ocean doesn't care about our technology in the past nor in the present. Kcmastrpc (talk) 13:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Waiting for them to die. As someone said earlier: if they're hopefully found alive it probably doesn't merit a blurb barring some startling innovation in the rescue effort. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 13:50, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support altblurb, it has had significant international coverage. Suonii180 (talk) 13:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support altblurb, realistically they're likely dead. Koltinn (talk) 14:21, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 14:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Edit blurb to read 'in the Atlantic Ocean' and not just 'in the Atlantic'? QueensanditsCrazy (talk) 17:59, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Pull has only limited impact on a few people.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 15:50, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

That banger of a rationale will sure get it pulled from ITN. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 17:47, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Pull because this is notable enough for an article, but nowhere near enough for ITN. The level of media coverage this is receiving is ridiculous - several times that of the Mpondwe school massacre & on a level with the 2023 Messenia migrant boat disaster. We shouldn't prioritise whatever is most publicised. If we did, Anne Heche would've been blurbed & we'd have posted several updates of Depp v. Heard. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 20:07, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Well, it's the level of media coverage that this receives that makes it ITN-worthy. Schwede66 20:13, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Level of media coverage is not a metric used by ITN to determine significance. Large media coverage should be reflected in the quality of the article incorporating all those sources. Masem (t) 20:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Take away the ridiculous level of media coverage & what makes this important enough for ITN? Vessels with more people onboard often go missing. We don't post the vast majority. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 21:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Pull - hwhat. Person(s) on expensive and risky adventure see said risks come to fruition is your story here? The level of coverage exists sure but it also existed when Kylie Jenner was proclaimed a billionaire and then when she was not and when any number of trivial but popular or otherwise interesting things happen. Suitable for DYK as that is where interesting things go, not ITN as that is where news goes. nableezy - 20:16, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Have you looked at any news websites today? – Muboshgu (talk) 20:42, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  I have indeed, this is tops of world in Washington Post. You know whats second? Andrew Tate being arrested. This is generating interest, it doesnt mean it is particularly noteworthy or newsworthy. Not everything that gets ratings is news. nableezy - 21:28, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Like I said, the media have ridiculously overblown their coverage of this minor event. There are 5 people onboard, not 500. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 21:02, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Do we or do we not post items in the news? Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 21:13, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, but only a small minority of them. We don't post just because they receive a lot of media coverage & the articles are good enough. If we did, we'd have quickly posted the 2023 Nottingham attacks & Anne Heche's death would've been blurbed. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 21:36, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Thats an interesting logical fallacy, but I presume you would support Travis Barker and Kourtney Kardashian announcing a pregnancy by referencing a Blink-192 music video with that same rationale? nableezy - 21:30, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Well, if you'd like another logical fallacy, that is that, and this is this. But obviously each person's significance standards are different, and I suspect that if that story were nominated, it would not have a consensus to post. Here, it seems that there is a consensus, even if it's not unanimous. Cheers, ⛵ WaltClipper -(talk) 22:42, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

We should not be posting sensationalist news stories, which I feel this story is on that edge (five rich people knew what they were doing by going down in that submersible with a history of safety problems; unlike things like the cave rescue or mining rescues where those people had no choice of where they ended up). Its the same rationale that no matter how many 72pt headlines such a story might make, we don't make ITN items for celebrity stories (like the Depp/Heard trial), most political topics (like the Hunter Biden conviction today), or other pop cultural items. These stories inevitably favor - from both originating and coverage - western biases that we absolutely should avoid, and the argument "its in the news! and readers are looking for it!" doesn't fall well because WP doesn't care about popularity of stories, and should be focusing on being an encyclopedia than catering to the masses. Masem (t) 03:46, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

• Pull we've not posted mass shooting incidents involving this many victims. Yikes. And it took 3 days to post Trump's indictment? --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 20:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Pull I'm unconvinced that the mass shooting incident analogy is a good one, as ropey submersibles steered by games controllers don't go missing every day. But it's only really in the news for this reason (and the fact it's turned into a Thunderbirds style race against time before the air runs out). Sea-going is dangerous. Vessels do go missing all the time, usually because they've sunk, and AFAIK we don't post them unless they're major catastrophes. Black Kite (talk) 20:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Post-posting support - Being widely covered in the media in multiple countries. Just searching news brings up multiple hits which shows this is indeed an important story. The purpose of ITN is direct readers to topics that are in the news and of interest which is what this posting does. Noah^Talk 21:00, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

They have to also be important to be on ITN. If being highly-publicised & of interest to many people were sufficient, we'd have posted Anne Heche's car crash, then blurbed her death days later. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 21:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Post-posting support it is in the news, very widely covered and WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a good argument. Also this concerns the wreckage of the Titanic; arguably one of if not the most famous ship in history. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:03, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Post-posting support An interesting story that's "In the news" Kevinishere15 (talk) 21:05, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

So is Andrew Tate being charged. Should that be posted to ITN? Jim 2 Michael (talk) 21:59, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

This story is far more unique than Tate, also he was already charged for other things Kevinishere15 (talk) 22:29, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

they're both as insignificant as each other. No lasting impact.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:34, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Pull Not a major catastrophe, no lasting impact, insignificant. Rich guy goes on a trip with some other guys and their vessel gets sunk. Not ITN worthy (although the fact it was controlled by a PlayStation controller could've been a nice DYK candidate). Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 01:09, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Pull per Black Kite and Fakescientist8000. Jiaminglimjm (talk) 01:55, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Strong post-posting support per Abcmaxx. This story and 5+ related stories are the main headline across most Western media company websites, newspapers, and news agencies. This qualifies as being "in the news" on a greater scale than any recent event that has been posted, nullifying all pull request arguments. 23.242.176.139 (talk) 03:30, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Post-posting support. Widely covered in international news sources, coverage is guaranteed to be sustained over a more than fleeting period, and the topic is of encyclopedic interest (submarine rescues are rare). ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 03:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Stats FYI, there were several related articles attracting attention from many readers and editors yesterday, including: Hamish Harding; 2023 Titan submersible incident; Titanic; Wreck of the Titanic; OceanGate, Inc.; Sinking of the Titanic; Mariana Trench; Kursk submarine disaster; Deepsea Challenger. Wikipedia is good at covering such novel topics because it has a variety of articles covering the various aspects. Well done everyone. Andrew🐉(talk) 07:38, 21 June 2023 (UTC) (edit conflict)
• Post-posting support given level of worldwide news coverage. {{u|Sdkb}} ^talk 19:05, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Worse things than this happen every day. Why do many of you assert that huge media coverage makes it important enough for ITN? If it did, we should've posted the Will Smith–Chris Rock slapping incident, Depp v. Heard, Anne Heche's car crash & death days later as well as the arrests & charges of Andrew Tate & his brother. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 19:16, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

It's not about the few millionaires that were onboard this submarine - it's about the fact that a civil submarine sinks at all. What has come out of this whole drama is how unregulated this whole area is - the submarine wasn't certified by anyone (while ships normally are), and previous "tourists" are now voicing concerns they already had previously. For those who say this has no impact - on the contrary! I would be surprised if OceanGate survives this; other submarine tourism companies will come under increased scrutiny, and no insurance company will touch any civil submarine with ten-foot pole as long as these things are not certified. So this has a massive impact on a nascent industry. Khuft (talk) 19:42, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Comment — The United States Coast Guard and OceanGate stated that the five people aboard—including Hamish Harding, Shahzada Dawood, and Paul-Henri Nargeolet—are dead. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 19:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) RD: Gaetano Troja

Article: Gaetano Troja (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): La Repubblica
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Pro Regnum Siciliæ (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Robby.is.on (talk · give credit), 37.159.40.15 (talk · give credit) and Simeon (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Italian soccer player. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 21:01, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose ...I'm not even going to give a reason. Open the article and take a peek at it yourself. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 21:30, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• Why even nominate this? It's not like it just needs a few citations here and there- it's an article that has no article. -- Kicking222 (talk) 22:30, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose on quality While it's been dramatically expanded, it's got the usual citation issues and a variety of grammatical errors as well. The Kip (talk) 23:59, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality Article is a stub, needs major rewriting such as a lack of an "early life" and "personal life" section, as well as more citations to back up several claims.

TomcatEnthusiast1986 (talk) 00:01, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

@Fakescientist8000 and Kicking222:, y'all were saying? - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 00:17, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Now you've done a good job expanding the Football career section and nothing else. I'm not supporting this until there's good length out there, and considering how fastidious you've been on this article, I think you'd agree with me that you wouldn't want a desultory attempt to push this article to ITNRD and then slap a Ready tag on it when there isn't consensus to post it, no? Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 00:46, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

He's made it into an actual article. I think you guys need to reconsider about this. Rager7 (talk) 00:19, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

I mean, I'll say weak oppose for now- some or the writing is really poor, and a couple of paragraphs could use more referencing, but it's just about there, and certainly good work in a short period of time.

That doesn't change the fact that there was absolutely no reason to nominate the article before updating it, especially if the nominator was doing the updating themselves. Why not just wait a couple of hours? Kicking222 (talk) 03:07, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Because nominating at RD helps others get involved and brings it to others attention. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:03, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, it brought to my attention that the article didn't have any prose whatsoever- great thing to which to draw attention- and exactly one other user got involved for more than a second.

The first step in nominating an article says "Update an article". Either get the wording changed or follow the directions. Kicking222 (talk) 18:28, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

The first step in nominating an article says "Update an article". Either get the wording changed or follow the directions.

Not just that. The section your quoting proclaims:

Update an article to be linked to from the blurb to include the recent developments, or find an article that has already been updated.

The article had been updated - they had his DOD right there. Hell, {{ITN Candidate}} has the parameter "|updated=." I did follow the directions. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 18:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

@Knightoftheswords281: may be worth noting in the nominator comments that you're nominating an article that still needs work; something along the lines of "not ready, nominating to draw attention to the article, requires sections A, B, and C added, missing sources about X, Y, and Z". Then all editors hopefully will put all the effort into improving their article rather than writing unhelpful comments. Abcmaxx (talk) 21:10, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Comment There's nothing wrong with nominating an article to draw attention to it. I have done it myself with Janusz Kupcewicz and that was way worse than this article when 1st nominated; it was expanded and featured in RD on the main page though, and the RD nomination helped others get involved. WP:AGF, needless aggression on here, uncalled for. Abcmaxx (talk) 16:01, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Article good enough now. Proves my point above. Abcmaxx (talk) 06:40, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support The quality of the article is much better now, no longer a stub. --Vacant0 (talk) 10:01, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted per improved article quality. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 15:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Max Morath

Article: Max Morath (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Duluth News Tribune
Credits:

• Nominated by Fakescientist8000 (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Ragtime pianist, known as Mr. Ragtime. 96. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 20:26, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Comment few citations needed still in various places; any chance can use existing sources to plug the gaps? Abcmaxx (talk) 21:13, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  @Abcmaxx Hi! I've fixed up some areas that needed citations. Mind taking another look? :) Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 00:40, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

Support excellent work. Shame we don't have a full bibliography though! Abcmaxx (talk) 06:44, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Looks alright, no referencing issues. --Vacant0 (talk) 10:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted. Not 100% convinced by AllMusic as a source but appears to be sufficient here. Anarchyte (talk) 14:10, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

June 18

Portal:Current events/2023 June 18

June 18, 2023 (2023-06-18) (Sunday) Armed conflicts and attacks Russian invasion of Ukraine 2023 Ukrainian counteroffensive Ukrainian forces capture the front line village of Piatykhatky in Zaporizhzhia Oblast as heavy fighting continues. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents Six people are killed and 28 others are reported missing after heavy rains cause flash floods across Nepal. (Sharjah24) Titan submersible implosion Five people are killed when an OceanGate submersible implodes during a commercial trip to the wreck of the Titanic. (BBC News) Law and crime 2023 DuPage County shooting A person is killed and 22 more injured during a mass shooting at a Juneteenth celebration in Willowbrook, Illinois, United States. (ABC News) Fourteen people die from drinking bootleg alcohol in Alborz province, Iran. (RFE/RL) Politics and elections 2023 Malian constitutional referendum Malians head to the polls to vote on a referendum that, among other things, would enhance the powers of the President. (Al Jazeera) 2023 Kuwaiti general election Kuwaiti Prime Minister Ahmad Nawaf Al-Ahmad Al-Sabah forms a new cabinet following his reappointment, appointing Ahmed Al-Fahad Al-Ahmed Al-Sabah as the defense minister and Saad Al Barrak as the oil minister. (The Straits Times) Sports 2022–23 PGA Tour In golf, American Wyndham Clark wins the 2023 U.S. Open, his first major championship, after shooting a final-round 70 to finish at 10-under-par and holding off four-time major champion Rory McIlroy of Northern Ireland. Clark had never finished better than 75th in a major championship and had missed the cut in his previous two U.S. Opens. (BBC Sport) 2022–23 UEFA Nations League In association football, Spain defeat Croatia 5–4 on penalties, after a 0–0 draw, in the final held at the De Kuip in Rotterdam, Netherlands, to win their first UEFA Nations League championship. (BBC) 2022–23 CONCACAF Nations League In association football, the United States defeat Canada 2–0 in the final held at Allegiant Stadium in Paradise, Nevada, United States, to win their second CONCACAF Nations League championship. Christian Pulisic is named the tournament's "best player". (AP via The Indian Express)

---

RD: Bernd Schroeder

Article: Bernd Schroeder (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): BR (in German)
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: German writer, best known for a bestseller he wrote together with his (more famous) former wife (don't miss the video of the two reading from it in the novel's article even if you don't understand German). - Sorry, I had no time for him, too many others who died + RL. Did you see my question about Doris Stockhausen on the talk? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Cornel Țăranu

Article: Cornel Țăranu (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): Actual de Cluj
Credits:

• Created and nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Romanian composer, musicologist, teaching generations of students, also founder and conductor of a chamber orchestra for contemporary music, head of a festival, and of the Union of Romanian composers. - Had no article! Today is his birthday!! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:04, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support assuming that the citation at the "His works include:" goes for all of his works. Excellent job by Gerda Arendt, as usual. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 17:49, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support I've commented out his works that are not mentioned in the sources provided. Looks good now, good job. --Vacant0 (talk) 09:56, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Supportlong enough, notable, interesting as well.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 12:56, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 17:15, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Michael Hopkins

Article: Michael Hopkins (architect) (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): [3]
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Fakescientist8000 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Vladimir.copic (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: English architect, 88. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 13:07, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Not ready Still quite a lot of citations missing. I've tried to do some improvements but the personal life and notable buildings sections still need fixing up. Vladimir.copic (talk) 23:57, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

  @Vladimir.copic mind taking another peek? I've fixed most of the issues you've brought up. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 02:39, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Support @Fakescientist8000 looks like you fixed this up. Should be good to post now. Vladimir.copic (talk) 02:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Looks good for RD. --Vacant0 (talk) 09:33, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted—Bagumba (talk) 06:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) Wyndham Clark wins the US Open

Article: 2023 U.S. Open (golf) (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In golf, Wyndham Clark (pictured) wins the U.S. Open. (Post)
News source(s): CNN
Credits:

• Nominated by TheCorriynial (talk · give credit)

The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance.

Nominator's comments: Yeah, its another sports article, and several won't be happy to see another one, but the U.S. Open is a recurring ITN. Might be a bit short, but a photo likely needs added of Wyndham Clark. TheCorriynial (talk) 12:34, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality, especially as regards to prose. Too little prose to table ratio, and most importantly in the Round summaries section, in which only the final round has enough prose to be comfortably on the Main Page. Expansion is needed, please and thanks. Weak support Some expansion would be helpful in the first round section, but overall, this article is ready for ITN. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 12:53, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support thanks to expansions by Compy90 and Dale Arnett. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 17:08, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Seems to be well-cited and the prose has been expanded immensely. The Kip (talk) 20:15, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

  The course description is empty save for the par list. A brief summary about the LACC like any preparations it made since this appears to be the first time it hosted the US Open, or how the LACC was selected, for example, would help. Masem (t) 00:08, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  @Masem: I added details in the "Course" section. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 10:19, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  That's better now. Masem (t) 12:19, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support It has enough details & references now. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 10:22, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support, Article is good sourced with enough information. Alex-h (talk) 15:40, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - "Field" section too long, with detail that isn't necessary in the tournament summary page. See 2020 U.S. Open (golf), where it was hived off to a subpage and only the essential summary listed. The round summaries for 1, 2, 3 are also quite short, could do with a slight expansion.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:42, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  Comment I think the field being separated for the 2020 one was a one time thing, and hasn't been done with any major since minus the PGA that year. Likely the golf wiki project tried it, but it was unofficially decided not to do again after the PGA that year. TheCorriynial (talk) 16:52, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  I split it. This is a pretty clear application of WP:DETAIL. Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 23:17, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

  It seems the situation could have warranted a yellow-tag {{overly detailed}} before, but the split added an orange-tag {{expand section}}. That apparently made it worse per WP:ITN:

  Articles that are subject to serious issues, as indicated by 'orange'- or 'red'-level tags at either the article level or within any section, may not be accepted for an emboldened link

  —Bagumba (talk) 01:54, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

  I would argue that splitting in accordance with an editing guideline should take priority over aligning with ITN standards? Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 17:12, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

  It was merely a factual observation. —Bagumba (talk) 04:36, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  I've pared down the field section again, removing the lengthy an unnecessary "exemptions" bit. It shouldn't really have been posted with issues unresolved, but it's probably OK now. Summary style would be preferable to transclusion but ah well.  — Amakuru (talk) 06:31, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  {{overly detailed}} would be a yellow tag, if it was placed, and not an ITN show stopper. —Bagumba (talk) 08:01, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  As The Ed pointed out above, this is an editing guideline and compliance with that is always a prerequisite for posting items on the main page.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:14, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

  @Amakuru: It was no longer tagged when it was posted. At worst, a yellow tag is placed, but WP:ITN only cautions against orange and reds. If I'm missing something, we can continue at WT:ITN. Regards.—Bagumba (talk) 11:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

• Posted The orange tag was resolved and has been stable.[4] At worst, there still might be issues with how much or little detail the "Field" section should have in the main page vs. subpage, which has a quirk of a yellow vs. orange tag. As the content is still available and sourced on WP regardless, it doesn't seem like an ITN issue.—Bagumba (talk) 04:54, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

June 17

Portal:Current events/2023 June 17

June 17, 2023 (2023-06-17) (Saturday) Armed conflicts and attacks 2023 Sudan conflict Battle of Khartoum The Sudanese Air Force launches airstrikes in Khartoum, killing at least 17 people and destroying dozens of homes. The armed forces and the Rapid Support Forces agree to a 72-hour ceasefire. (BBC News) Anglophone crisis At least ten people are killed during an offensive by the military of Cameroon against separatists in the English-speaking Northwest Region. (Xinhua) Disasters and accidents 2023 Asia heat wave At least 96 people die during a heat wave, which started two days ago, in the states of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, India. (AP) At least eight people are killed and 19 others are missing after a winter storm in Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil. (AP) Seven people are injured after a hot air balloon catches fire in Zug, Switzerland. (AP) International relations Saudi Arabia–Yemen relations A Yemenia flight with 277 passengers departs from Sanaa International Airport for Jeddah's King Abdulaziz International Airport, the first commercial flight from Yemen's primary international airport to Saudi Arabia after a seven-year blockade. Additional flights have been scheduled to accommodate thousands of Hajj pilgrims. (AFP via France 24) Law and crime 2023 Gorge Amphitheatre shooting Two people are killed and two others wounded during a mass shooting at the Gorge Amphitheatre in Grant County, Washington, United States. (AP)

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RD: Maria Lampadaridou-Pothou

Article: Maria Lampadaridou-Pothou (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://www.lifo.gr/now/entertainment/pethane-i-diakekrimeni-syggrafeas-maria-lampadaridoy-pothoy
Credits:

• Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk · give credit)

Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Greek Writer. Article looks alright. Onegreatjoke (talk) 01:27, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Weak support Although two things are needed to improve this for me to drop the weak: an improved lead, and a citation fix in the works sections. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 03:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

(Posted) RD: Sri Adiningsih

Article: Sri Adiningsih (talk · history · tag)
Recent deaths nomination (Post)
News source(s): https://asia.topnews.media/2023/06/17/former-wantimpres-chairman-sri-adiningsih-dies/
Credits:

• Updated and nominated by Jeromi Mikhael (talk · give credit)

Article updated
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Wikipedia article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.

Nominator's comments: Former Joko Widodo's chief advisor. Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 17:44, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Weak oppose A few missing citations, but for the most part ready to go. The Kip (talk) 20:16, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support Article is well cited, and lengthy enough to pass quality requirements for ITNRD. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 20:22, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support, Article is well arranged with enough information. Alex-h (talk) 15:33, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted Ed ^{[talk] [majestic titan]} 23:20, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

(Closed) Asian heat wave

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Article: 2023 Asia heat wave (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Asia, a record-breaking heatwave kills 115 people across the southern and southeastern parts of the continent. (Post)
News source(s): CNN - Wired - Bloomberg - Reuters - The Guardian - Vox - WaPo - Al Jazeera
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Isi96 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Gianluigi02 (talk · give credit), Isi96 (talk · give credit) and KingsukX (talk · give credit)

Article updated

Nominator's comments: For several months now, much of Asia has been battered by a crippling and record breaking heatwave that has left dozens dead and even more hospitalized. This is actually the third time this has been nominated: the first was closed since it was a nom for ongoing and it at the time hadn't really done much besides have some record temperatures. The second came after 15 people had died, and there was actually consensus to post, but no admin posted in time (much like the nomination for the Tony awards that are about to become stale). Now, we've recently received a fresh death toll of 34 from Uttar Pradesh, bringing the toll to 51. I suggest this be posted at least on a WP:IAR basis (even though I would argue that the increase of deaths doesn't make the story stale since it just occured today), especially since there was indeed consensus to post last time. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 20:14, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose if for nothing else but quality. Hospitalization numbers do not appear to be updated, and I have concerns about how updated our information is across the article in general. The article lists death counts from only three countries and would seem to be only updated from time to time. The article also reads kinda poorly, as it's mostly single lines about certain affects at x point in time in each country. Additionally, while I love statistics, so much of the prose is about temperature readings and records, which makes sense in the context of the event in question, but it still feels quite excessive. DarkSide830 (talk) 21:50, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality Article is also barely updated and feels bare, besides the fact that this is the third attempt for this article to be put on ITN. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me thrice....I don't know what they say for thrice. Cheers, atque supra! Fakescientist8000 22:07, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

  To be fair, the first one technically had consensus to post, just as a blurb instead of the ongoing that the nominator wanted, and again, the only reason the second one didn't get posted was due to the admins. I think this is kind of like the situation over the Ohio train derailment and the fiasco that it caused on ITN, in that we're only having a third time, because we fumbled on the earlier two. Hopefully despite this, just like the Ohio train derailment, this can be posted. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 22:30, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose on quality For as prolonged this has been, the article has far too much proseline rather than summarizing the effects in each country better. In addition, I would fully expect a meterological section to explain the origins and the persistence of the heat wave, in the same manner you'd see how a hurricane or typhoon article typically starts. --Masem (t) 22:57, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Comment

there was actually consensus to post

By my count there were three opposes to five supports, discounting my own neutral vote. I'm curious to hear what your definition of "consensus to post" is. The Kip (talk) 02:59, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Anyways, oppose on quality for the reasons stated by DarkSide and especially Fakescientist. The Kip (talk) 03:01, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Andrew's oppose seemed to be a quality oppose, and Noah was the only one who opposed while explaining their reasoning on a significance basis. Darkside voted citing Noah. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 14:35, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

So by my count that's three legitimate opposes, considering the article quality is still poor. That's not consensus, and this isn't the first time you've been overly eager to post a blurb prematurely. The Kip (talk) 20:16, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose Only the Al Jazeera source in the nom seems recent. Do sources really say this is all part of the same heat wave since Apri? And do they group it as all part of Asia? Most of the article's listed deaths and hospitalizations are specifically in India. I'm wary of WP:OR grouping here.—Bagumba (talk) 06:37, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

  Do sources really say this is all part of the same heat wave since Apri? And do they group it as all part of Asia? Most of the article's listed deaths and hospitalizations are specifically in India.

  Yes they do (NYT, France24, CNN, EN, Time, AP, NBC, USIP, Axios, Vox, Time (again), CNN (again), USA Today, Scientific American, Japan Times, Reuters etc.) This is not original research: the RSes state that this is part of a broader heatwave sweeping the continent. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 20:27, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

  The first two from NYT and France24, at best, make reference to South Asia. In fact, France24 wrote, ..a searing heat wave in April that struck parts of South Asia..., which doesn't sound like it considers this one continuous heat wave. The CNN source is from May, so cannot be used to tie in current events. Feel free to highlight any relevant excerpts from other recent sources.—Bagumba (talk) 05:28, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose It's reported in The Economist that South Asia (India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/etc.) averages about 110,000 heat deaths a year, this century. That's an average of 300 a day - presumably much higher at this time of year. I'm having problems posting 111 deaths in South Asia, given as this seems lower than normal, and seems to be typical for an 8-hour period. Maybe the Climate emergency should be ongoing. Nfitz (talk) 16:52, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

  It's reported in The Economist that South Asia (India/Pakistan/Bangladesh/etc.) averages about 110,000 heat deaths a year, this century. That's an average of 300 a day - presumably much higher at this time of year

  I'm questioning what The Economist meant by heat-related excess death, given that according to Statista, from 2008 to 2021, the annual deaths from Indian heatwaves never exceeded 2,100 people, with 2021 in fact having 0 deaths. [5]. In fact, none of the other news sources that mention the study (BBC, The Hindu, UNDDR, Mint) or hell, even the original Lancet study itself mention that 110K number, only the 3.3 million deaths caused by exposure to fossil fuels. The only sources that mention the 110K number were published after The Economist ran the article that you linked, so I'm questioning the accuracy of that statement.

  Regardless, that's not a good metric anyway considering that this is an ongoing phenomenon, where nothings been set in stone. You know how for example, we don't know the exact numbers for COVID casualties for example? @Nfitz - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 20:49, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

  Covid is a global pandemic. That's hardly a comparable example. DarkSide830 (talk) 23:52, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

  It is a surprisingly high number. If it's completely wrong, even if it get's to 2,000 in just one South Asian country alone - then 100 seems low to be notable. I have a big problem believing that there were no heat-related deaths in 2021 - particularly when The Lancet reported a loss of 167 billion hours of labour in 2021 due to heat exposure. Nfitz (talk) 23:59, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose the news would be stale for most parts of Asia. Should limit scope to UP or India, but there doesn't seem to be an article for that. Jiaminglimjm (talk) 10:39, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

(Posted) Uganda school massacre

Article: 2023 Lhubiriha school attack (talk · history · tag)
Blurb: ​ In Uganda, 41 people are killed and 8 injured after Allied Democratic Forces attack a school in the town of Mpondwe. (Post)
Alternative blurb: ​ In Uganda, the Allied Democratic Forces kill 41 people at a school in Mpondwe.
Alternative blurb II: ​ In Uganda, Allied Democratic Forces jihadists attack a school in Mpondwe, killing 41 people, injuring eight and kidnapping six.
News source(s): NPR - NYT - BBC - TIME - WaPo - Al Jazeera
Credits:

• Nominated by Knightoftheswords281 (talk · give credit)
• Created by Sherenk1 (talk · give credit)
• Updated by Moscow Mule (talk · give credit), Dubstar44 (talk · give credit) and Family27390 (talk · give credit)

Nominator's comments: 42 people are dead in Uganda after rebels linked to ISIL attacked a school in the country. The article seems to be in pretty good shape actually, much better than most of its type are when nominated here, but there is an active move discussion. - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 14:59, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support - in the news globally: ABC, BBC, Al Jazeera, etc. Article appears to be fine from the outset, but could use better sources before going on the main page. Anarchyte (talk) 15:16, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support altblurb if the article is good enough after the merge. I suggest Mpondwe school massacre as the new title. The death toll makes it easily notable enough to be posted. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 15:23, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support once merge resolved I really don't see much on the second page that needs to be in the first, so may be a matter of administration, but this otherwise is sufficiently good to post as a new breaking news article from that part of the world. --Masem (t) 15:38, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Merge has been resolved and while there can still be more details, this is appropriate quality for a new breaking event, so it should be ready to go. --Masem (t) 13:30, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support—I honestly don't even think a full discussion regarding a merge is necessary, as the two articles cover the same topic. Just copy the text of one article and incorporate it into the other, then redirect. I'd do it myself, but I have other things to tend to at the moment. Kurtis ^(talk) 19:19, 17 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support but do not mention IS in the blurb. The link between these militant groups is well-sourced, but speculative. We should not make that claim substantively on the main page, but the article should provide enough info. Original blurb is fine as is. I want to make sure we avoid unintentional editorializing, if possible. 142.116.102.236 (talk) 19:47, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Both blurbs say that the ADF are the perpetrators, with no mention of IS. People who are interested in the ADF can read about the links between those two jihadist groups on various linked articles. I wrote the altblurb improve the wording as well as to remove the number of injured survivors & what type of settlement Mpondwe is due to those points being insufficiently important enough to include. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 21:53, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Support. Kirill C1 (talk) 11:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Major tragedy, has been reported on globally. Hcoder3104 (💬) 15:48, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
• Altblurb I, please. ADF reads better with the article, number of injured is TMI, and number of abductees is still fuzzy. Moscow Mule (talk) 18:19, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Marking as ready - Knightoftheswords281 (Talk · Contribs) 17:47, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

• Support Alt blurb I per Moscow Mule. Mooonswimmer 21:33, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support alt blurb 1 The article’s important enough for a blurb & it has enough details & references. Alt blurb 1 seems like it’s best in terms of being concise. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 22:58, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
• Support All of the above 2604:3D09:1287:4300:F489:F6B:B308:EBFB (talk) 05:51, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
• Posted—Bagumba (talk) 06:03, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax [http://example.com] rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.

For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: