Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Birds: Difference between revisions
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Isee back in 2016 someone deleted Categories: Birds of...(African countries)but just for the African countries, nowhere else. Long term project is to try to restore them in some fashion....[[User:Pvmoutside|Pvmoutside]] ([[User talk:Pvmoutside|talk]]) 11:06, 17 July 2023 |
Isee back in 2016 someone deleted Categories: Birds of...(African countries)but just for the African countries, nowhere else. Long term project is to try to restore them in some fashion....[[User:Pvmoutside|Pvmoutside]] ([[User talk:Pvmoutside|talk]]) 11:06, 17 July 2023 |
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==[[Chicken of Tomorrow Contest]]== |
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I recently created an article for the [[Chicken of Tomorrow Contest]]. It may be of interest to members of this project. [[User:Thriley|Thriley]] ([[User talk:Thriley|talk]]) 20:47, 13 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Page merges - pending for long time == |
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Hi folks, I want to make some updates reflecting the change of [[Laughing owl]] from ''Sceloglaux albifacies'' to ''Ninox albifacies''. The new synonym's noted in the article but the underlying data and categorisation still need cleaning up. I think this will involve updating the item for [[d:Q117254704|''N. albifacies'']] to fill it in properly, and changing the label of the [[d:Q844773|Laughing owl]] item to ''S. albifacies'' and linking it as a synonym. Then, creating an ''N. albifacies'' commons category and moving the contents of the ''S. albifacies'' one over, and finally updating the article. |
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I want to bring to your attention an issue that has been annoying me for some time, but I don't know how to handle it myself. This relates to the birds of New Zealand. |
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Does that make sense? Am I missing anything essential? Thanks! [[User:Avocadobabygirl|Avocadobabygirl]] ([[User talk:Avocadobabygirl|talk]]) 20:13, 11 January 2024 (UTC) |
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:I've renamed the Commons category, but yeah, the rest should definitely also be done. [[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]] ([[User talk:FunkMonk|talk]]) 09:12, 12 January 2024 (UTC) |
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::Thanks @[[User:FunkMonk|FunkMonk]]! [[User:Avocadobabygirl|Avocadobabygirl]] ([[User talk:Avocadobabygirl|talk]]) 21:07, 14 January 2024 (UTC) |
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: The Wikidata situation is a mess, as the sources with identifiers use a mix of the names and most other Wikipedias still use the old name. If we change the sitelink, we lose the interwiki links. The German wikipedia remains sitelinked to ''Sceloglaux albifacies'' even though it has changed to ''Ninox albifacies''. — <span style="font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 10:26, 12 January 2024 (UTC) |
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::Ah, that is complicated. I've done some additions to the ''N. albifacies'' item, and moved a few bits over from the old one but I see there's still a lot intertwined. How doable is it to make the changes to the other language wikis/what's the best way to ask other users to make those changes? [[User:Avocadobabygirl|Avocadobabygirl]] ([[User talk:Avocadobabygirl|talk]]) 21:10, 14 January 2024 (UTC) |
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I need to find someone with a good understanding of the relevant science to perform these merges without introducing errors, and is willing to apply [[WP:BOLD]]. Please consider helping if this sounds like a good fit for you. |
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== Ernst Mayr == |
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[[Talk:Little_penguin]]: Merge discussion opened August 2023, closed with result of merge April 2024. As of today, the actual merge hasn't happened yet.The taxonomy is nuanced, as discussed in the merge discussion. Please merge both [[Eudyptula novaehollandiae]] and [[Eudyptula]] into [[Little penguin]]. |
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It seems to me that this edit ('toning down') strikes me as incorrect revisionism. What do you think? - [[User:Kweetal nl|Kweetal nl]] ([[User talk:Kweetal nl|talk]]) 02:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC) |
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[[Talk:Yellow-eyed penguin]]: Merge discussion opened October 2023. I believe that the result is a merge consensus, but the discussion hasn't closed yet and the merge hasn't happened. Please merge both [[Waitaha penguin]] and [[Megadyptes]] into [[Yellow-eyed penguin]]. |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ernst_Mayr&curid=9238&diff=1199339955&oldid=1199257038 [[User:Kweetal nl|Kweetal nl]] ([[User talk:Kweetal nl|talk]]) 02:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC) |
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: Agree. The reference on his life (''On the Importance of Being Ernst Mayr'') makes clear his important role in developing evolutionary theory, which describing him as a German-American evolutionary biologist fails to convey. Some people know the value of nothing (to continue the Oscar Wilde theme). Perhaps the reference should be moved to the end of the sentence to make clear this is a sourced evaluation of his importance. — <span style="font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 09:03, 27 January 2024 (UTC) |
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[[Talk:New Zealand raven]]: Merge discussion opened November 2023. I believe that the result is a merge consensus, but the discussion hasn't closed yet and the merge hasn't happened. Please merge [[Chatham raven]] into [[New Zealand raven]]. |
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== Unidentified taxidermied Falco == |
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[[Talk:Xenicus]]: Merge discussion opened November 2023. I believe that the result is a merge consensus, but the discussion hasn't closed yet and the merge hasn't happened. Please merge ''[[Pachyplichas]]'' into ''[[Xenicus]].'' I think that [[North Island stout-legged wren]] and [[South Island stout-legged wren]] can remain separate articles for now, although this can be revised in the future. [[User:Columbianmammoth|Columbianmammoth]] ([[User talk:Columbianmammoth|talk]]) 17:59, 15 June 2024 (UTC) |
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[[File:Unidentified taxidermied hawk at Stromness Museum, Orkney 01.jpg|thumb|upright|Unidentified taxidermied hawk at Stromness Museum, Orkney]] |
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== Crested (duck breed) == |
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:{{ping|Pigsonthewing}} would help to have measurements of culmen, wing, tail and tarsus ... [[User:Shyamal|Shyamal]] ([[User talk:Shyamal|talk]]) 14:46, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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Could someone kindly take a look at [[Crested (duck breed)]]? I've already reverted there more often than I'm comfortable with. Many thanks, [[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 10:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:::It ''looks'' pretty small, perhaps a juvenile of something like red-footed falcon or kestrel? [[User:Jimfbleak|<b style="font-family:Lucida;color:red">Jimfbleak</b>]] - [[User talk:Jimfbleak|<i style="font-family:arial;color:green">talk to me?</i>]] 14:07, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Missing topics == |
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== Birds of the World website as source == |
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| ⚫ | We don't have entries for [[in pin]] or [[pullus]]. To what articles or sections could those topics be sensibly redirected? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 11:57, 30 June 2024 (UTC) |
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Since the Handbook of the Birds of the World as a handbook has been put online as the well-maintained Birds of the World (albeit with a subscription access model), is it a fair resource to use regularly for habitat, diet, etc. behavior? I was considering making a template for it, e.g., "Template:BOW" that would autofill the website information (https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/******/1.0/introduction) and just request a title and optional author and date information. [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 23:36, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
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: There is a [[Glossary_of_bird_terms]] where something could be added for Pullus. There is also a section on [[Bird#Parental_care_and_fledging|Parental_care_and_fledging]] in [[Birds]] and articles on [[Fledge|Fledging]] and [[Precociality and altriciality]]. I'm note sure of the best definition of pullus which varies from the general "a young bird" to the more specific "a young bird in the downy stage" or "a young bird or nestling prior to fledging" or "a young bird or nestling that is not yet able to fly". — <span style="white-space: nowrap;font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 13:17, 30 June 2024 (UTC) |
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| ⚫ | :: There are a number of articles on feathers, which don't mention [[pullus]] or [[in pin]], although there is an article on [[Pin_feather]]s that could do with some work. — <span style="white-space: nowrap;font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 14:23, 30 June 2024 (UTC) |
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:I have used BOW as the main source for writing almost 1700 species' pages supplemented by info from field guides and whatever else I can find. (South and Central American and a few Caribbean species - example here: [[Dusky-throated antshrike]]) I can't tell what the result of using the template would look like. Would it copy the BOW intro into the Wikipedia page? That's pretty close to unacceptable plagiarism even if surrounded by quotes. How would the citation work? [[User:Craigthebirder|Craigthebirder]] ([[User talk:Craigthebirder|talk]]) 00:04, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::Considering that the BOW pages each have an individual DOI, I would need a lot more template/metadata knowledge to put something together that could just pull all the information if it was fed a title and/or URL. Just thought it would be a useful addition, and hadn't seen it mentioned before, but it's beyond my capabilities for now. Thanks for your input. |
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::As for what the template would look like - I was just anticipating some kind of easier-to-use citation to insert that worked like a combination of techniques used to create [[Template:GoldBookRef]] and [[Template:Sigma-Aldrich]] to generate a citation with accurate URL and DOI based on some other parameters. [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 00:20, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::I would find this super useful. Can you do a template where we just need to enter one parameter (e.g., the title of the BoW page) and the full citation including authors and doi and so on is pulled automatically? Can you also add an additional optional parameter for the chapter (I mean, many BoW accounts are split into multiple subpages like "Identification", "Breeding" and so on, and it would be nice to be able to specify those easily). [[User:Jens Lallensack|Jens Lallensack]] ([[User talk:Jens Lallensack|talk]]) 00:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::I've created a template to do something like this at [[Template:BoW]]. I'm still a template novice, so it won't give any errors right now, but the "required" parameters are "title" and "file". Title is the name of the page, and "file" is the id that the doi/url uses. Accepted parameters are "authors", "year", "title", "chapter", "file", and "accessdate". Still working on documentation. |
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::::Here's an example: <nowiki>{{BoW|title=Mourning Dove ''Zenaida macroura'' Version 1.0|file=moudov.01|authors=Otis, D. L., J. H. Schulz, D. Miller, R. E. Mirarchi, and T. S. Baskett|year=2020|accessdate=February 25, 2024}}</nowiki> |
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::::Which produces: {{BoW|title=Mourning Dove ''Zenaida macroura'' Version 1.0|file=moudov.01|authors=Otis, D. L., J. H. Schulz, D. Miller, R. E. Mirarchi, and T. S. Baskett|year=2020|accessdate=February 25, 2024}} |
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::::Let me know what you think. I do realize that this is in most cases slower than just switching to visual editor, putting in the DOI for a page to the automatic citation tool, and using that, but this method creates a "cite web" template with the editors listed instead of a "cite journal". [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 02:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::So it can autocomplete all parameters based on the ID except for the title? Just out of interest, why is that, why is title completion not possible? My only other suggestion is to rename "file" into "id". Because that's what it is, "file" can be anything and is really not obvious. [[User:Jens Lallensack|Jens Lallensack]] ([[User talk:Jens Lallensack|talk]]) 06:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::It can't really autocomplete anything, it just inserts text into a citation that is common to all BoW pages. I didn't use "id" because I wasn't sure if it was possible to use that particular string. Jts1882 has a better solution below. [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 19:09, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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: You can use {{tlx|BioRef|BOW}}. See [[Template:BioRef#Birds]] for examples. You can give it a {{para|title}} and {{para|url}} or {{para|title}} and {{para|id}}to generate a basic citation. The template wraps {{tl|cite web}} so you can use any of the CS1/CS2 parameters, e.g. for adding the author parameters, version, etc. Perhaps the easiest is to use the parameter {{para|citation}} which parses the citation given on the BOW page (just copy and paste it). I can add other options if required. — <span style="font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 07:57, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, thank you! Much better integration than whatever I was trying to do. [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 19:08, 26 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::I like the option with just copying the recommended citation from the BOW page, and have the template parsing it. Will definitely use that in the future. Thanks. [[User:Jens Lallensack|Jens Lallensack]] ([[User talk:Jens Lallensack|talk]]) 00:17, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::If the template is going to generate something that can be read with [[WP:COINS]] then <nowiki>{{Cite BOW}} would be more appropriate than {{BoW}}</nowiki> which just generates a plain text citation. [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 17:11, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::I'd prefer {{tl|Cite BOW}} as it makes the purpose of template clearer, and is consistent with widely used templates such as {{tl|Cite web}} and {{tl|Cite book}}. However, that is inconsistent with most of the templates in [[:Category:Biology source templates]]. But there is also an issue raised at [[Template talk:PLANTS#PLANTS template used for Sfn causes "Harv and Sfn no-target errors"]], that was solved by creating redirects with "Cite" (I don't really understand what was going on there). [[User:Plantdrew|Plantdrew]] ([[User talk:Plantdrew|talk]]) 21:43, 27 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::: I'll create {{tl|Cite BOW}} later today. As it uses {{tl|Cite web}} it should generate the COINS data correctly. The {{para|citation}} option splits the authors into {{para|lastn}} and {{para|firstn}} and these are passed to cite web. I might look at a substitution option so the author parameters appear in the template call in the page wikitext. |
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::::::: That sfn error is strange and the fix stranger. I think the fix is due to the use of a redirect rather than including cite in the template name, although I don't understand it either way. {{tl|Cite BOW}} will handle all the CS1/CS2 parameters so you can use {{para|ref|Anchor}}, {{para|mode|cs2}}, etc for customising the citations. — <span style="font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 07:54, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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: I've created the template at {{tl|Cite BOW}}. The {{para|citation}} option may still need tweaking. Parsing the authors and editors needs to take account of one, two and three author/editor cases. I think editor is now OK, but I haven't checked two authors. There may be other odd cases where the format of the citation is slightly different. Incidentally, I don't like the position of the editors in the output (before the title), but that is a CS1/CS2 decision. — <span style="font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> [[User:Jts1882|Jts1882]] |[[User talk:Jts1882| talk]] </span> 11:42, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:: Nice! I just tested the {{para|citation}} option with a few examples, and can't spot any issues. --[[User:Jens Lallensack|Jens Lallensack]] ([[User talk:Jens Lallensack|talk]]) 12:01, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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::Thanks for your efforts. This template going to be a great help since so much time is spent writing out citation parameters. [[User:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#6BAD2D">Recon</span>]][[User talk:Reconrabbit|<span style="color:#2F3833">rabbit</span>]] 14:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 19:51, 30 June 2024
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Category:Birds of (African countries)
Isee back in 2016 someone deleted Categories: Birds of...(African countries)but just for the African countries, nowhere else. Long term project is to try to restore them in some fashion....Pvmoutside (talk) 11:06, 17 July 2023
I recently created an article for the Chicken of Tomorrow Contest. It may be of interest to members of this project. Thriley (talk) 20:47, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
Page merges - pending for long time
I want to bring to your attention an issue that has been annoying me for some time, but I don't know how to handle it myself. This relates to the birds of New Zealand.
I need to find someone with a good understanding of the relevant science to perform these merges without introducing errors, and is willing to apply WP:BOLD. Please consider helping if this sounds like a good fit for you.
Talk:Little_penguin: Merge discussion opened August 2023, closed with result of merge April 2024. As of today, the actual merge hasn't happened yet.The taxonomy is nuanced, as discussed in the merge discussion. Please merge both Eudyptula novaehollandiae and Eudyptula into Little penguin.
Talk:Yellow-eyed penguin: Merge discussion opened October 2023. I believe that the result is a merge consensus, but the discussion hasn't closed yet and the merge hasn't happened. Please merge both Waitaha penguin and Megadyptes into Yellow-eyed penguin.
Talk:New Zealand raven: Merge discussion opened November 2023. I believe that the result is a merge consensus, but the discussion hasn't closed yet and the merge hasn't happened. Please merge Chatham raven into New Zealand raven.
Talk:Xenicus: Merge discussion opened November 2023. I believe that the result is a merge consensus, but the discussion hasn't closed yet and the merge hasn't happened. Please merge Pachyplichas into Xenicus. I think that North Island stout-legged wren and South Island stout-legged wren can remain separate articles for now, although this can be revised in the future. Columbianmammoth (talk) 17:59, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
Crested (duck breed)
Could someone kindly take a look at Crested (duck breed)? I've already reverted there more often than I'm comfortable with. Many thanks, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
Missing topics
We don't have entries for in pin or pullus. To what articles or sections could those topics be sensibly redirected? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:57, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- There is a Glossary_of_bird_terms where something could be added for Pullus. There is also a section on Parental_care_and_fledging in Birds and articles on Fledging and Precociality and altriciality. I'm note sure of the best definition of pullus which varies from the general "a young bird" to the more specific "a young bird in the downy stage" or "a young bird or nestling prior to fledging" or "a young bird or nestling that is not yet able to fly". — Jts1882 | talk 13:17, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
- There are a number of articles on feathers, which don't mention pullus or in pin, although there is an article on Pin_feathers that could do with some work. — Jts1882 | talk 14:23, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
Redirects now in place. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:51, 30 June 2024 (UTC)