Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycle racing

British speedway articles

I find the way we have organized articles on British speedway very confusing and lacking in logic. The league system in Britain has changed several times, often with the same name being used for different leagues, and they seem very jumbled here. As an example there have been three 'National League's - a national (top flight) league in the mid-20th century, the renamed second division of the British League from 1975 (sometimes called the 'New National League'), and the renamed Conference League that is currently active. Three different leagues, all confused into one in this encyclopedia. From the formation of the British League in 1965 there is yet more confusion as it went from a two-division league to a three-division league when the Elite league was formed. The Premier league then went from being the top division to the second division, so in many articles gets equated with the 'New National league' and the old second division although in reality it is not the same league. We really need to separate these things out into distinct articles. Naming is another issue. The Elite League is called the Elite League, not as far as I can tell the 'Speedway Elite League' and virtually every article here on speedway competitions has been prefixed with the word 'Speedway' irrespective of whether the competition was actually named that way - some form of inappropriate disambiguation it seems (see also Speedway British League which should and could live quite happily at British League until disambiguation is needed). I would really like to sort this mess out but as it would involve considerable change I anticipate that it may ruffle a few feathers. If anyone has any thoughts I would be happy to take them on board. Thanks. --Michig (talk) 10:06, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't have any knowledge of speedway, but thought I'd respond so that you would have some feedback. Regarding the naming issue, I was going to suggest calling the article Elite League (speedway), but it lives there already! Equally, British League (speedway) could be used. I think the term British League is quite generic so you're probably going to need some disambiguation one way or another, even in the season pages. Readro (talk) 22:53, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

The Elite League is the only one I think that is currently named in the standard way. --Michig (talk) 06:02, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

MotoGP riders

I'd like you to pay attention to Alexxander3000's new pages about every rider who raced in MotoGP in these years: I think these pages are only a copy of motogp.com statistics, they lack of prose and they've got a lot of formal mistakes (like absence of categories and persondata templates, links to disambiguation pages like FTR and Suter) and also content mistakes, as they don't take into account World Superbike or Supersport participations, et cetera. I think that it's just a way to make all links blue, but in my opinion it's not the right way. 79.21.163.253 (talk) 09:48, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not ideal that we have all these articles that are just stubs, but the riders pass notability and as such the author is not exactly doing anything wrong by starting an article. Yes, there are issues with them but the only way we can resolve them is by adding to the articles. I've been trying to do this when I can but it's quite a lot of work. Readro (talk) 21:10, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

2012 Spanish motorcycle Grand Prix

Just a heads up that the 2012 Spanish motorcycle Grand Prix article has had a notability tag placed on it by User:Mtking and will likely be put to WP:AfD. He has succeeded in destroying a large amount of Mixed martial arts coverage on wikipedia and is currently trying to get an ATP Tour tennis tournament deleted. It looks like Moto GP is next. Cheers. Jevansen (talk) 06:04, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

I had removed the tag twice yesterday, also adding some sources, but I don't know what to do to make the event "notable". Gpmat (talk) 07:24, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Anybody knows which are the "secondary sources" needed? I can't understand which news I have to put, because it seems that Crash.net, Autosport, BBC Sport and MotoGP are not enough. I removed the tag for the third time but he's insisting. Gpmat (talk) 08:34, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Mate I'd stop removing that tag if I were you, it's not going to end well. The references you have listed are all primary sources. Considering the Spanish GP took place just one month ago, I'm really not sure what secondary source would exist, regardless of whether or not the event is "notable". Perhaps you could get Mtking to explain. Jevansen (talk) 09:12, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

That's ok, but I'm not going to waste more time in situations like this. Gpmat (talk) 10:23, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, primary sources would be the MotoGP website and teams websites. Journalists from media like AP, AFP and Autosport are secondary sources. --NaBUru38 (talk) 16:40, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

'WikiProject: BMW Motorcycle' Proposal

This new WikiProject would have the primary aim of creating and developing a page for each model (both old and new) of BMW motorcycle produced in the company's history. This would enable a highly valuable resource to be for both enthusiasts and restorers such as myself to be created, where extensive information about specifcations, development, modifications and the history behind could be found. Not only this, but it would encourage motorcycle enthusiasts, who would not normally have used Wikipedia, to both use its resources and to contribute to the project's pages, becoming part of the motorcycle fraternity which would be the driving force behind this community. Once this task has been completed of English Wikipedia, I, with help of other editors and members of the project, would like to then translate the pages into other languages (particularly German, in order to make the resources available in Germany, where many BMW enthusiasts and restorers are concentrated), and so contribute to the wider Wikipedia group. The WikiProject, would also contribute large numbers of pictures to Wikimedia, as part of its galleries.

In order to promote the group and encourage the growth of the articles in our scope, the WikiProject is not only being promoted to present editors who are currently active editing articles on BMW itself and motorcycles in general, but also notify groups such as the Vintage Motor Cycle Club and the BMW Club in the U.K., which would encourage members (20,000+) to contribute some of the extensive knowledge of the topic which is demonstrated by members of these clubs. Members of the WikiProject who are active in clubs outside of the U.K., would also be encouraged to promote the Project to their respective society, making the WikiProject multinational. Current, more experienced editors, would then help the 'new boys' to use Wikipedia and share their knowledge, which has often been built up during the course of a lifetime of passion for BMW motorcycles. This would enable us, together, to produce a resource which will help generations long into the future and help preserve and catalogue BMW's legacy in the motorcycle industry.

Currently, there are no such WikiProjects which would be dedicated solely to the BMW motorcycles (not even BMW itself) and the development of pages on each individual model, in opposed to the current situation where some models are briefly referred on a BMW related page. This WikiProject would allow this community of people who are highly knowledgeable about this specific topic to develop articles in extreme depth, something not possible with larger groups, which could then be published on the world wide web, available gratis, as with all Wikipedia articles, to the public.

If successful, the idea could serve as a blueprint and be replicated for other motorcycle manufacturers.

Please visit the project proposal page, in order to see more details of the project and to join. Any questions or queries can be posted either on the proposal page, or I can be contacted directly on my talk page.

Many thanks and any help from fellow enthusiasts on this project, would be greatly appreciated.

DAFMM (talk) 15:35, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Kawasaki Motors Racing

Template:Kawasaki Motors Racing has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. DH85868993 (talk) 14:12, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Name of the Austin MotoGP round

MotoGP seems to have "Americas" as the title for the Austin race. On the other hand, Wikipedia article's title is still "Texas". If the article isn't renamed, should the "Americas" title be mentioned in the prose, similarly to "Grand Prix of Jersey" in the article about F1's Grand Prix of America? --August90 (talk) 12:12, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

MotoGP - Moto2 - Moto3. Why not seperate pages?

I was wondering why the MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 are all on the same page and don't have seperate ones. Formula One doesn't do it with its GP2 and GP3 series. TollHRT52 (talk) 13:53, 3 November 2012 (AEDST)

In this case we'd have five pages (for classes 50, 125, 250, 350, 500) for each season from 1962 to 1982, I think it's not a great idea, and all classes belong to the "FIM Road Racing World Championship" and the regulations are about all classes. 87.13.4.245 (talk) 10:32, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Moto2/Moto3/125cc round numbering in season summary articles

I'd like to question the round numbering in the Moto2 and Moto3/125cc Participants tables in the 2010 to 2012 Grand Prix motorcycle racing season summary articles. Consider the first couple of rows the Moto2 Participants table in 2012 Grand Prix motorcycle racing season:

Team	Constructor	Motorcycle	No.	Rider	Rounds
Came IodaRacing Project	FTR	FTR Moto M212	3	Simone Corsi	1–9, 11–18
GP Team Switzerland	Kalex	Kalex Moto2	4	Randy Krummenacher	1–9, 11–13, 17–18
			20	Jesko Raffin	14–16
JiR Moto2	Motobi	TSR TSR6	5	Johann Zarco	1–9, 11–18
			57	Eric Granado	6–9, 11–12, 14–18

I think the "Rounds" column for Corsi should contain "1-17" not "1-9, 11-18". I understand why it has been written as "1-9, 11-18", i.e. to make the round numbers match the MotoGP round numbers, but I don't think that makes sense - there were only 17 rounds in the 2012 Moto2 Championship, so a round number of 18 doesn't make sense. It also makes the season summary articles inconsistent with the rider articles - it you look at Corsi's results table, the 2012 rounds are numbered 1-17:

Year	Class	Bike	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	Final pos	Points
2008	125cc	Aprilia	QAT 7	SPA 1	POR 1	CHN Ret	FRA 13	ITA 1	CAT 5	GBR 5	NED 3	GER 5	CZE 10	RSM 3	IND 7	JPN 7	AUS 8	MAL 3	VAL 1	2nd	225
2009	125cc	Aprilia	QAT 14	JPN 15	SPA 14	FRA Ret	ITA 18	CAT 16	NED 8	GER Ret	GBR 2	CZE Ret	IND 3	RSM 7	POR Ret	AUS 5	MAL Ret	VAL 4		11th	81
2010	Moto2	Motobi	QAT 8	SPA 5	FRA 3	ITA 3	GBR Ret	NED 12	CAT 6	GER Ret	CZE 8	IND 5	RSM 4	ARA 5	JPN 11	MAL 10	AUS 8	POR 14	VAL 7	5th	138
2011	Moto2	FTR	QAT 6	SPA 3	POR 5	FRA 7	CAT 4	GBR 10	NED 14	ITA 7	GER 8	CZE 9	IND 14	RSM 10	ARA 3	JPN 5	AUS 15	MAL Ret	VAL Ret	6th	127
2012	Moto2	FTR	QAT 8	SPA 17	POR Ret	FRA Ret	CAT 5	GBR 5	NED Ret	GER 6	ITA 18	IND 8	CZE 5	RSM Ret	ARA 7	JPN 6	MAL 23	AUS 7	VAL 17	11th	87

If there is consensus to change the numbering, I'm happy to do the work. Comments? DH85868993 (talk) 23:36, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I think this just emphasises that MotoGP, Moto2 and Moto3 should be seperated into individual pages. Superbike and Supersport have seperate season pages. The same should apply here. --Falcadore (talk) 07:55, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

While we're on separation (which I would support), I also think that 500cc and MotoGP should be separated, as should 250cc and Moto2, and 125cc and Moto3. At the moment they get lumped together as a continuation, but they're distinct classes. Readro (talk) 09:46, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I also agree with all the above commnets, the pages for Moto GP/Moto2/Moto3 are much too long and i think could cause confusion if someone who doesn't know the sport would want to look for information. All other series have separate pages with links under the infobox to the other classes. SBK and BSB articles are done this way and i think Moto GP should be the same. As for the round numbering to me it makes no sense how it currently is because moto2/3 don't have 18 rounds they have 17... Xrateddan (talk) 11:04, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I made the changes and then reverted them. It occurs to me that (for example) the 2012 Moto2 race at Valencia can be considered as "round 17 of the 2012 Moto2 World Championship", or "the Moto2 class of round 18 of the 2012 FIM Road Racing World Championship". So I think we need to think about this further. DH85868993 (talk) 06:05, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

By the way, the tournament is called FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix, not Grand Prix motorcycle racing. --NaBUru38 (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Looks like its time to bring this debate to the Wikiproject talk page. --Falcadore (talk) 01:14, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

This is the WikiProject talk page, isn't it? DH85868993 (talk) 07:05, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Grand Prix motorcycle racing is not an incorrect description and I'd oppose changing it. Readro (talk) 21:06, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

RfC on the use of flag icons for sportspeople

An RfC discussion about the MOS:FLAG restriction on the use of flag icons for sportspeople has been opened at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Icons. We invite all interested participants to provide their opinion here. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:52, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Table font sizes

I have removed the forced font sizes that are used in tables on a number of MotoGP articles. There are three reasons for this. The first is that there is absolutely no reason to use small fonts. The second is that using them makes it difficult for readers with a visual impairment - text, with the obvious exception of headings, should be kept at the same size for ease of reading. The last is that the use was inconsistent bordering on random - some fonts were 85%, some 90% and others 95%. Can we agree to use the same 100% font size throughout? --Biker Biker (talk) 23:19, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

My only concern is that it will cause some table rows to be doubled, i.e not being able to fit the whole riders name in the box, having said that this is less likely to happen with Moto GP than Superbike (Superbike having 2 races means more page is taken up and overflow can occur) and at 85% some articles are struggling to keep the content on the page without overflowing horizontally. If there is a solution to this then i would support the global 100% but until then i think only Moto GP articles should be at 100%. Plus it makes no difference 85-99, 90 and 95 are the same size as 85 anyway (or it seems that way). Xrateddan (talk) 19:35, 1 January 2013 (UTC)