Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football

Atli Gregersen

I'm having conflict over this player's League stats with FaroeIslands (talk · contribs). Discussion started at Talk:Atli Gregersen#Danish League stats, please feel free to join in. GiantSnowman 15:38, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

The image doesn't bother you then? [1] ArtVandelay13 (talk) 22:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Removed. GiantSnowman 00:28, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Still having problems with this editor, can an admin step in please? GiantSnowman 01:02, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

According to BK Frem club website, Gregersen's total first-team career consisted of about 20 minutes, divided among 2 league games and 1 cup, all in the 2005/6 season, and he left the club in the winter 2006/7 break for pastures unknown. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 19:03, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

FA Cup winners template

This template (and its messed-up formatting) has been floating around in the ether for two years. In a functioning guise, is it a useful thing to have? - Dudesleeper talk 00:28, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Not at all - it would be very large, and I can't see it adding anything to club articles on which it would be placed. пﮟოьεԻ 57 08:38, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I've fixed most of the formatting so that at least people can see what it's meant to be displaying...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

No scope to transclude it, so no point in having it IMO. --WFC-- 09:46, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Template:Squad maintenance

I made Template:Squad maintenance that is intended to facilitate the updating of football squad templates (including removing squad templates in former player articles). I transcluded it to a few templates, e.g. Template:Manchester United F.C. squad or Template:BSC Young Boys squad. I hope you will find it useful. --Leyo 09:42, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to report a bug in the template. I just updated Template:Borussia Mönchengladbach squad, and added the maintenance template to it. However, when I check the transclusion, it still says that all the players I removed are still there, and the players I added aren't. I'm not really sure what's going on there. It may also just be a problem on my end. Thanks. Sir Sputnik (talk) 17:32, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

If a player left the team, you also have to remove the squad template from its article. Example: You removed Paul Stalteri from the squad template, but this template is still transcluded in Paul Stalteri. Was I clear enough? --Leyo 17:43, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I think it was just a delay. I had removed the player from the template, and the template from the player's article, but the maintenance template was saying I hadn't. When I checked again a few minutes later, it had worked itself out. Sir Sputnik (talk) 18:09, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

You did it after posting here. But anyway, are there any more comments or suggestions? I would like to mention the parameter update source, where an external link to a website containing an up-to-date squad can be provided. --Leyo 18:51, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I just want to say this is a terrific creation. I've been trying to update Turkish footballer articles and this helps immensely. Thanks! Invisibletr (talk) 15:50, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

I am happy to hear that, thanks. :-) --Leyo 21:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Just added it here. Good work. Argyle 4 Life^talk 00:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

What about adding the squad maintenance to all squad templates in Category:Football squad templates by a bot? There are a bit too many to do this task manually. --Leyo 10:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

A possible problem with that might be the "update source" parameter. How is a bot going to know where to get the updates from? That said, it might still be worth adding it by bot without that parameter filled to get users who would know what the source is to add it. Great creation by the way. Alzarian16 (talk) 10:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

A bot can of course not know this parameter. That's why I thought about adding either {{Squad maintenance|update source= }} or {{Squad maintenance|update source=<!--provide URL here-->}} to the squad templates. --Leyo 12:08, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

The baseball guys suggest renaming the template to Roster maintenance. Please state your opinions there. --Leyo 18:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

It should stay where it is per WP:ENGVAR. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:14, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

User:MorrisSar

Just wondering if any of the project-related admins are willing to step in to assist in the restraint of MorrisSar (also more widely known as Sarumio). This kind of edit is one of several that demonstrate he's still on his campaign to mislead the reader. If not, I'll file a request for a sock puppet investigation, per this recommendation from an admin. - Dudesleeper talk 21:40, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Blimey, bit harsh to say that that edit was designed to "mislead the reader"......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:44, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Some of the other edits he made was to add the correct article in front of nouns (a instead of an or visa versa). Hardly misleading... Sandman888 (talk) 16:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Notable/Famous former players

What should I do when I encounter lists of notable former players? I'm sure you've discussed this before, but surfing through the 48 archives of debates is not my plan for the night.

Currently, when I found lists with no criteria I just eliminate them per WP:POV. Still, what should I do with the ones that have criteria very easy to meet and very difficult to verify? For example: this one, done by myself some time ago. 50 games for the club is just not enough to be "notable", and it would be impossible to find sources for every player that has played that small number of games for the club throughout its history. The current list misinforms the reader, who is lead to believe those are the only players with 50 games for the club.

Thanks for your answer. Regards. Fache (talk) 04:25, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

A few possibilities: tag the section as incomplete, and if no-one bothers to research further, then it could be deleted as recentist and misleading; change the section heading, so that it more accurately describes the contents (===Players with 50 or more appearances===); raise the threshhold (100 appearances +, maybe more); have separate sections for separate criteria (internationals, top ten appearances, top ten scorers, etc). On another point, you are aware of the search option for the archives? Kevin McE (talk) 06:05, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

I always remove them unless there is specific criteria mentioned at the top (i.e. played internationally, went on to play professionally (for non-League clubs)). пﮟოьεԻ 57 08:12, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Yep, remove the section if it is unreferenced or without criteria, and replace it with a link to the appropiate player's category instead. GiantSnowman 15:52, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. Fache (talk) 00:06, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

This has been gone over but it needs to be tracked down in the archives (anyone recall where?). If I recall correctly, the conversation stalled on what actually constitutes "notable" and it was really annoying. Remove any unreferenced items )maybe even the whole section) for now to make it easy but if we do want to reopen past discussions then it might be fun to write up something similar to a Manual of Style for such sections.Cptnono (talk) 10:59, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Moroccan footballers

Hi. Its been borught to my attention that the articles created on Moroccan footballers by this user are mostly orphaned and are not listed on the team club sheets when the articles claim that the footballers currently play for them Either they are all mostly dated or the information is false/they are hoaxes. Please can somebody assess them and reference if possible or take to AFD. Thanks.Dr. Blofeld 15:39, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Adolfo Valencia

Hi there teammates,

i bring this to discussion here rather than to the page of the user who made the changes because i fear language problems may "arise" (not BAD language, just language plain and simple :))...

About this player on the title, i see that the club he played for in China has been removed, with the summary "never play in China" (see here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adolfo_Valencia&diff=354967780&oldid=354966554). However, several interwikis and, most importantly, the NATIONAL-FOOTBALL-TEAMS.com link, attest to this, although the former may a be a situation stemming from the English wiki.

Does anyone have any reliable info on this guy's full career? He retired in 2003 or 2004, not long ago. Thanks very much in advance, cheers - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 16:36, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Yep, NFT confirms he played in China for a number of seasons, and they're pretty spot-on in most cases, so removing his Chinese details is nothing short of vandalism - especially if the editor hasn't provided a source fonfirming he DIDN'T play in China...GiantSnowman 17:03, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Further proof for his stints in China might be this blog (take a look at the bottom of the page just above the video) and this snippet from a Chinese page (link provided as Google Translate link for convenience). However, I do not know if these sources would actually pass WP:RS without further investigation, so take the information with a grain of salt. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 17:26, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Sohu Sports has good information about the Chinese Super League (going back to 2004), but unfortunately the club Valencia supposedly played for was not in the Super League in 2004. I will do some checking, but I'm afraid it's going to be difficult to find a reliable source confirming he played there. Jogurney (talk) 20:12, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

SINA Sports published Lucheng's 2004 squad list and Valencia is included (#19). It doesn't say whether he played any matches, but I'd say that's pretty conclusive proof he was with the club. Jogurney (talk) 20:26, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Even better, SINA published the 2003 second division topscorers list and Valencia was the leader with 15 goals. SINA's certainly a reliable source. Jogurney (talk) 20:33, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

New Brighton

Should this article be split into two; one article for the original club and another for the revival? TheBigJagielka (talk) 23:02, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

That's a little tricky. They have different names, so I would say yes. You could argue just for New Brighton F.C. to redirect, but it's a disambig page. —Half Price 11:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I would assume yes from the prose. Without sources it is a little hard to tell, though. Cptnono (talk) 10:53, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Not entirely sure that the new club is notable at all? other than by being named after a town which once had a couple of Football League clubs. It's never played above level 11, is currently at level 12, and has AFAICT never entered the FA Vase. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Good call. I'd say move the page to New Brighton F.C. (1921) or similar and make the old team the focus of the page, with the modern team having a section. Or move page to New Brighton F.C. and have a rather long {{for}} hatnote to replace the disambiguation. —Half Price 12:46, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Or even New Brighton F.C. (football). —Half Price 12:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Why does the page need moving? The team was called New Brighton A.F.C., and that is where the article is located, so it's not an issue. GiantSnowman 12:54, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The current club is A.F.C., but the article says the original was just F.C. —Half Price 13:04, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh yep, my apologies. In that case I'd move it to New Brighton F.C. (1921) personally. GiantSnowman 13:55, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

The match programme image on this programmes-for-sale page would indicate it actually was New Brighton A.F.C. In which case don't move the page :-) But if we're sure that the current club isn't independently notable, the article should change its focus to the old team. Or if the new one does have independent notability, I'd argue the old club, with 30 years in the Football League and many more at lower levels, should keep the undisambiguated name and the new-club article should go to New Brighton A.F.C. (1993). cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:19, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

That's odd, the official history page of the current club says F.C., but that programme photo seems quite conclusive. —Half Price 14:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

That page also uses F.C. in the heading of the 1993-onwards history section, so I wouldn't read too much into that. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 14:57, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Your right, so we needn't move the page, just focus it a bit more on the old club. Agreed? —Half Price 15:12, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. GiantSnowman 15:20, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Right, anyone who has the time to do it please do. :D —Half Price 16:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Quick assist on today's featured article?

Resolved

Quick inquiry from an IP that looks like it might have been a good catch. Talk:2009 Lamar Hunt U.S. Open Cup Final#"Extra time" It is TFA and Skotywa might be in bed so any quick thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks for any input. Side notes: Win today, Skotywa is awesome, and hooray fun. Cptnono (talk) 10:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Struway2!Cptnono (talk) 10:43, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Player Career Statistics chart

Hi, i was wondering if anyone could help fix this. Nameless User has been making changes to some of the player statistics, but on some of the articles the person has changed the competition names, on the Ian Harte article [Football League Championship|League Championship], [English Premier League|Premier League] and where it previously said 'League Cup'. I wasn't going to change it back but for some reason i couldn't find Football League Cup on the bar. Im not saying he's doing anything wrong, but i can't see why the competetion names are being changed as well. All of the changes that were made on the Shevchenko article seem to have been manually undone by someone. Bobbymozza (talk) 17:28, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Changing [[Premier League]] to [[English Premier League|Premier League]] is a particularly pointless change, as the article is located at Premier League, so he's changed a direct wikilink to point to a redirect :-S -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I realised why i couldn't see League Cup on there and changed it. Bobbymozza (talk) 18:59, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I've changed it all to proper formatting and left the user a note. The League Cup thing was because the user seems to have created a new set of templates, {{Football player club statistics 2}} etc as opposed to {{Football player statistics 2}}, and Football League Cup was piped in the one but not in the other (it is now). I've asked them if there's a difference... cheers, Struway2 (talk) 19:35, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I think those templates are very user-unfriendly, limiting to use and nigh-on impossible to work out properly. Brad78 (talk) 20:06, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Inline citations

Anyone familiar with the Fb templates, like {{Template:Fb cl footer}}, knows there is a parameter for a source to the data. The common usage is just placing the link (sources) within brackets, I was thinking: wouldn't it just be better, and more inline with Wikipedia:Citing sources, to place an inline citation there? Digirami (talk) 02:09, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Barcelona Sporting Club

Hi,

I came by with the article on Barcelona Sporting Club and I was surprised that they have the same logo and nearly the same name as the FC Barcelona, so I did some research to clear out who copied. Now, this clarification (supported by due references) has been removed. I'm not familiar with the football articles, so I wonder if you could check this edit that deleted my input, just in case you consider that the input I did was needed there. Cheers, Xabier Armendaritz^(talk) 18:39, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I've reverted back to your version - it's referenced and well-written, and there's no reason for removal. Regards, GiantSnowman 18:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

That web page is not a reliable reference because on their home page it states its edited fans, also Barcelona Sporting Club was named by a spanish immigrant from Barcelona and he named it after his hometown, but it was not named after FC Barcelona. Here's a reliable web page http://www.bsc.ec/historia.php, Barcelona Sporting club Official site.Dante mad666 (talk) 19:30, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Mick Lyons

Could anyone tell me if Mick Lyons (English footballer) had more than one spell at Brunei? TheBigJagielka (talk) 02:00, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it. New Straits Times has him recently joined in August 1993, and in this interview on OzFootball he said he was there 2½ years. Then the Liverpool Echo has him back there in Jan 2001, confirmed by the BBC with picture. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

A category for association football captains

I`d like to add category Category:Clube de Regatas do Flamengo captains to the articles from this list. Am I authorized to do that?--Александр Мотин (talk) 09:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ernandes Dias Luz

Hello project members. I don't want to canvass !votes, but I am a little worried that this AfD contained a lot of misinformation and many project members voted based on what had earlier been claimed (e.g., that the player had never played in a fully-pro league). If you !voted already, you might want to check the updated article and comments at the AfD in case you'd want to reconsider. Best regards. Jogurney (talk) 15:04, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Peer review/Camp Nou/archive1

Hi all, I have listed Camp Nou for Peer Review as I want to help Sandman888 get FC Barcelona up to featured topic standard. Please leave suggestions. Thanks. Mr.Kennedy1 ^{talk guestbook} 16:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Football or association football

Are you aware of the request for comments at Talk:Football#Naming_Standardization_In_Different_Codes? Jon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.15.105 (talk) 20:31, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

It's hard to miss! —Half Price 20:37, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

User:Hsmg20

Good afternoon mates. Can somebody point me in the right direction for reporting a user? I've read Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism, but I'm not sure if he would apply (I'm the only one who has warned him recently, and I've done so only three times (despite the fact that he has vandalized more frequently than that)). He continually edits the Süper Lig page to move Galatasaray over Fenerbahce in both the infobox and title total. There was a small discussion on how to go about listing the two, and it was decided to have them listed alphabetically to show no preference. After three warnings, he continues to vandalize the page, as well as the Fenerbahce page (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fenerbah%C3%A7e_S.K.&diff=prev&oldid=387116417), without engaging in any conversation. If there's an admin here who could intervene that would be great, or if there is somewhere I need to report this problem. Thanks. Invisibletr (talk) 20:38, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Flagicon usage

I'm not starting a debate on flags (we beat that dead horse into oblivion). I just want to check that my flagicon usage is correct. I edited most of 2010 Campeonato Ecuatoriano de Fútbol Serie A‎ to conform with MOS:FLAG, but I want to make sure I did some parts correctly, mainly in the goalscorer table. I know MOS:FLAG says to state the country when a flag is first used. Essentially, is a demonym an acceptable substitute for the name of the country? Thanks. Digirami (talk) 21:50, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

English names for Indonesian football clubs

There have been a long debate about English names for football clubs in Indonesia, as you can see in my user talk page. This issue is actually interesting and might be important for the sake of consistency. As you know, there have been common improper acronym-ization of Indonesian football clubs, for instance: the full name of Jakarta-based club is Persatuan Sepakbola Indonesia Jakarta, which is often acronym-ized as Persija. Both names are fine, however, media and even the Football Association of Indonesia often carelessly transform the name into Persija Jakarta, which is improper considering that the city name "Jakarta" is used twice.

An alternative proper abbreviation is suggested for Persatuan Sepak Bola Indonesia Jakarta, such as: PSI Jakarta, PS Jakarta or even Jakarta FC (using the term football club (FC) as English-translation of persatuan sepakbola). However, the last altnerative (Jakarta FC) seems to be unnecessary, as name prefix for sport clubs may use the original language, as in AS Roma (Italian club) or TSV 1860 Muenchen (German club).

Please let me know if you have suggestion or proper references about this, since now many articles related to Indoensian football are inconsistent in names. There are hundreds similar mistakes like this. Thanks! Guybrush1979 (talk) 21:56, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Just had a look at some English language sources and three of them show Persija Jakarta and one just Persija, so purely based on that small sample the suggestion is that the current page name of Persija Jakarta is correct. [2] [3] [4] [5] Eldumpo (talk) 17:24, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

But then FIFA just lists it as Persija [6] and I take your point about the PJ version meaning Jakarta is effectively included twice. Eldumpo (talk) 17:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Pre-professional era footballers

I remember there being a part of the old ATHLETE notability guideline that said that amateur footballers from before the pro-league era were considered notable, but it appears to have been removed in the transition to NSPORT. What's the consensus, if any, on the notability pre-professional era footballers? Thanks. Sir Sputnik (talk) 00:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

NSPORT was promoted so that baseball, basketball, gridiron and tennis had a guideline ASAP, without much attention being paid to other sports. It was therefore probably removed by someone who didn't have the slightest understanding of what they were removing, but good luck in restoring it. In theory, as long as an amateur passes the GNG he's worthy of an article. In practise, expect any article that defies scripture to be taken to AfD, deleted and salted. —WFC— 07:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe it ever said that all amateur footballers from before the league era were notable, but for the life of me I can't remember exactly what it did say.......... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:50, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I think it was along the lines of top-level amateurs from that era. —WFC— 07:58, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Which presumably would mean those who played in the FA Cup Final or represented their country. I don't imagine that even the names of many other players from that era are recorded.... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:03, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

There was a version of WP:ATHLETE that read just "Competitors who have competed at the highest level in amateur sports.", which became "People who have competed at the highest amateur level of a sport, usually considered to mean the Olympic Games or World Championships."

The non-guideline developed at this project, WP:FOOTYN, says "Pre-professional (amateur era) footballers to have played at the national level of league football are considered notable (no other level of amateur football confers notability)." Which is odd, because the discussion referenced the idea of players in pre-league cup finals, but it didn't carry over into the agreed wording. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 08:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Tiverton Town F.C.

Could someone else keep an eye on this article. An IP is repeatedly reverting to this version or something similar with season-by-season lists of "of the year" awards, whilst removing the history and honours sections that have since been added. Attempts to communicate via its talk page have only resulted in blanking. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:42, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Question

What do you think of this new article - Atatürk and Fenerbahçe? Does it deserve a separate article? - Darwinek (talk) 15:37, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

No, that's ridiculous! —Half Price 15:44, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Also it's a blatant POV. In Turkey, fans of all three big teams (Fener, Galatasaray and Beşiktaş) claim Atatürk supported just and only them. - Darwinek (talk) 15:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I also think we could do without another article created by the same author, Fenerbahçe (football) past rosters..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:58, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. —Half Price 17:45, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Festus Agu

Hi there! Seriously, i don't know how to "stem this tide", in this footballer's article...Help please!!

First, it started out with User:Rockystriker, who left the article like this (please see here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Festus_Agu&diff=327928434&oldid=327927993). After i cleaned it up, they (they? It has to be THE SAME person! Even if it's not, it's irrelevant) struck again, now as User:Gangling, leaving piece like this (here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Festus_Agu&diff=385764088&oldid=385763953).

The information added is quite unuseful without refs, the language is very poor. Furthermore, both users (the same?) added NO summaries whatsoever for their changes, and the first one wrote really suspect stuff (please read the end of Rocky's text carefully. What on earth is that?!?!?)

About the player Agu himself, he gained somewhat of an iconic status in this site in Spain (please check it here http://www.renaldinhos.com/), but nothing to do with his talent on the pitch, very much the opposite my friends. The last info, really, i don't know what can be done about it, and to block the page would no nothing if the users who want to "contribute" after creating an account. Is there anyway to verify if the info added to article is true? I think not, since i browsed the web and found nothing.

Attentively - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 21:08, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

WP:RFP if the article is continually being attacked? GiantSnowman 20:53, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

• No man, it does not work if the users are registered i believe. Also, i wanted some input as to whether the info in the versions put forth by the user(s) in article is reliable or not, more than reporting (possible) vandalism. Thank you - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 23:43, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's certainly not vandalism, it's just incredibly unhelpful. Have you had a word with the editor(s) in question? GiantSnowman 23:52, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

"Added extra-time" vs. "After sudden death extra-time"

I started working on the article UAE President's Cup and encountered an abbreviation—"asdet"—with which I am unfamiliar (see here, prior to my changes). According to AcronymFinder.com, "asdet" stands for "after sudden death extra-time".

What is the difference between "a.e.t" and "asdet"? Also, which article is the most appropriate to link to when adding a piped link which displays the text "asdet"? I've checked Overtime (sports), Golden goal and Sudden death (sport), but none seems to explicitly mention the term. Thanks, -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 22:59, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I've never heard that before either, but i think "asdet" would be the same as the Golden goal rule. Bobbymozza (talk) 11.09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Given that its a football related article, Golden goal would be the appropriate place to link it to. Sir Sputnik (talk) 23:40, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you both! I'll make the change now and keep watching this page in case there are other suggetsions. Thanks, -- Black Falcon ^(talk) 00:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Sudden death was, as you point out, the same that golden goal. Ipsumesse (talk) 07:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

A long-shot here...

But does anybody have any record of a Charlie Vaughan having played league football? I'm almost certain he played for Charlton Athletic in the 1950s. Thanks. —Half Price 18:25, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Just noticed he's listed as Charles Vaughan on List of Charlton Athletic F.C. players, with some stats but no citation. —Half Price 18:28, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Neil Brown's your man for post-war league footballers. Try googling site:www.neilbrown.newcastlefans.com "vaughan charlie" . cheers, Struway2 (talk) 18:38, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Neil Brown confirms he made 227 apps, scoring 91 goals, between 1946 and 1953. GiantSnowman 18:43, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

German football names

I am a bit scared to make another approach - see Festus Agu above, another discussion, asking for info about player, it was more than a report on vandalism, much more, all the people at the forum say "talk to the hand", next two queries, IMMEDIATELY answered - but here it goes:

I have a great difficulty understanding the concept of WP:COMMONNAME, in this case about German clubs. I feel that boxes should be compressed as much as they can, allowing for quick info on clubs that X or Y player appeared for. The full name (the article name i believe) should then appear in storyline.

Really, why should stuff like "1. FC St. Pauli" appear in box? Isn't "St. Pauli" enough, or "Kaiserslautern", or "Köln". I really need a quick input on that, for all the reasons and another: i have been SERIOUSLY insulted precisely in Festus Agu's article for compressing clubs in box.

Sorry for the trouble i am causing with my questions (it seems so very much), keep up the good work - --Vasco Amaral (talk) 20:44, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

You should pipe like that (i.e. 1. FC St. Pauli to just St. Pauli) in both infobox AND the main body of the article. GiantSnowman 20:57, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

No, in my opinion Köln isn't enough, this conceals information from the reader (there are for example 1. FC Köln and Fortuna Köln). Neither Real Madrid nor Manchester United are usually shortened to Madrid or Manchester, so why the names of the German clubs? In most cases there is no additional compression to gain by shortening for example 1. FC Köln to Köln, this only applies cases like Borussia Mönchengladbach which are not so common. I have also come across edits which removed the FC, Spvgg etc. from non-linked teams which makes it impossible to find out for which team the footballer really played. I would prefer to use compression only in cases of over-long names and the full name (or nearly full name) in order to have more clarity. --Jaellee (talk) 21:25, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Jaellee on this. Far too often, the names of German clubs are shortened to the point of ambiguity. For reference, User:ArtVandelay13 has written a guide that outlines appropriate naming of German clubs. It can be found here. Sir Sputnik (talk) 21:41, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adam Thompson (2nd nomination)

Although the subject of this AfD is himself not particularly noteworthy (even though I "voted" "keep" in the first AfD), the re-listing needs input from the WP Football community in view of the desire to clarify the interpretation of WP:NFOOTBALL and the WP:GNG. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 06:53, 1 October 2010 (UTC)