Talk:Windows 7

Should we be including security updates as latest releases of an OS?

Instinctively, I think the latest release version and date should only include major releases, like a service pack. A monthly quality or security update doesn't seem significant enough to justify changing the release date. This is something I noticed on the Microsoft XP article as well. It looks like the user User:Winderz IoT is the one making these changes. What is the policy on release dates? Does it include monthly security updates, or only major releases like service packs? Including rollups makes the OS look a month old, rather than 13 years old, which is a bit deceptive. Jonjames1986 (talk) 14:29, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm looking at Windows 10 (9 years old), Windows 11, Google Chrome (15 years old), Firefox (19 years old), Adobe Photoshop (34 years old), Adobe Flash Player (28 years old) etc. These all include the latest point release. So why not older versions of Windows?

Furthermore, sometimes major changes are included in these monthly updates. E.g., in September 2022 Microsoft quietly added Secure Boot support, along with half-baked UEFI support. Source: https://www.ghacks.net/2023/01/10/microsoft-sneaks-secure-boot-support-into-windows-7-shortly-before-support-ends/

Finally, the RTM and GA dates are clearly listed, so there shouldn't be any confusion as to how old the OS is. Winderz IoT (talk) 21:15, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

The only thing that should be here are major releases. End of story. Quetstar (talk) 15:04, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Care to explain yourself? Why are minor/monthly releases included in the Windows 10 & Windows 11? Furthermore, the OS is not completely discontinued, POSReady (an edition of Windows 7) ESU support continues until October this year. As of July 2024, Microsoft even labels these as "Windows 7 SP1 Security Monthly Quality Rollup", if you check the reference you removed. Winderz IoT (talk) 15:30, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Windows 7 is no longer supported by Microsoft. The POSReady updates are not intended for it, but can be installed through unofficial means. Also, Windows 10 & 11 use the Windows as a service model, where new features arrive more frequently and when they are ready, which is why minor releases are included in their articles, Quetstar (talk) 15:47, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

That's not exactly correct, it is officially supported by Microsoft in the form of the POSReady (embedded) edition with ESU. Yes, these updates don't officially work on other editions. However, (repeating myself here to prove a point) Microsoft labels these updates as "Windows 7 SP1 Security Monthly Quality Rollup", as they're intended for Windows 7, albeit an embedded edition. Nonetheless, they're officially intended for Windows 7.

The Windows 10 & 11 articles also include the monthly updates, not just the annual feature update. Windows 10 & 11 (and ESPECIALLY 10 now) generally speaking, don't include any major changes month to month, although they sometimes may, just like Windows 7. So I don't see how the Windows as a service model makes any difference here.

I'm going to go ahead and reinstate the monthly version for at least the time being, until maybe others want to chime in. Winderz IoT (talk) 19:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

POSReady is not an edition of 7, but is based on it. Therefore, it has its own support period. The infobox must reflect the subject. Windows 7 is no longer officially supported by Microsoft; any updates released after January 2020 were intended for its ESU program, which ended for Windows 7 in 2023. Also, I've checked the Microsoft Update Catalog, and Windows 7 isn't mentioned anywhere for 2024. Finally, all updates since 2011 were for SP1, and there is therefore no need to include the minor updates since they mainly just fixed bugs. Quetstar (talk) 20:29, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

On MS Catalog, the 2024 ESU updates are labeled as "Windows Embedded Standard 7". Anyway, regardless, I misspoke, you're right, it's technically not a proper Windows 7 edition, it's a derivative edition.

However, going back to listing "minor" releases, again Windows 10 clearly lists these monthly versions (largely just security updates) as do other OS and software articles with minor versions. Furthermore, as clearly stated in the article, there was the Platform Update, Disk Cleanup update, Windows Management Framework 5.0, and the Secure Boot update, all post SP1… and even post ESU in the case of the Secure Boot update. Finally, I'm listing the Security Monthly Quality Rollup, not to be confused with the monthly Security Only Quality Update. Another reason to include the final monthly update (excluding derivatives).

Source describing the monthly rollups vs. the security-only monthly updates: quote 1:"They include both security and reliability updates" quote 2:"The Monthly Rollup is product-specific and addresses both new security issues and nonsecurity issues in a single update." Meaning, new features can be added, like the examples I've already given.

Since ESU ended in January 2023, I think that monthly version should be listed as the final version, that's still proper Windows 7, and a direct continuation of previous non-ESU updates. Winderz IoT (talk) 15:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

By the time Windows 7 transitioned to cumulative updates in 2016, it was under extended support, which for Microsoft means no new features, only security updates and bug fixes. Quetstar (talk) 15:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended support means no new feature requests. Microsoft may still add new features on their own. E.g. Secure Boot support, a new security related feature. Source: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/policies/fixed#lifecycle-phases-for-products-under-the-fixed-lifecycle-policy Winderz IoT (talk) 17:30, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Edit: One more thing, looking at Template:Infobox OS. It specifically mentions that the latest release should be the latest "build" and uses the Windows 10 OS infobox as an example, where the latest 22H2 monthly security updates are included. Thus, it shouldn't even matter whether the updates are "feature" updates or security updates. Winderz IoT (talk) 18:36, 14 July 2024 (UTC)