Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation/Requests for enforcement/Archive1
Request concerning User:GoRight
[edit]GoRight (talk · contribs) #1 by ChrisO (talk · contribs)
GoRight warned |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Comments by parties against whom enforcement is requested[edit](1) I dispute the validity of these sanctions as noted at ANI. --GoRight (talk) 05:22, 2 January 2010 (UTC) (2) However, in the interest of playing along, the Climate change probation page states the following:
Following the link to disruptive edits we find the following:
It is widely known that ChrisO has been pushing a pro-AGW POV all over the climate change articles over an extended timeframe and he knows that there are multiple editors who disagree with his POV. His summary above clearly indicates that he was aware that others had been objecting to his edit yet he persisted anyway, see "GoRight previously reverted User:Tony Sidaway's edit of the same content: [2] without any edit summary or any explanation or comment on the article talk page." By the above description this is tendentious editing and, assuming that these sanctions are determined to be valid, he should be blocked for 1 year for tendentious editing. In addition, the edit on which he is relying occurred prior to the enactment of these sanctions and so is wholly out of scope for any action against me. I cannot be sanctioned under this probation for behavior that clearly occurred before the probation was in place. HIS edit, however, clearly occurred AFTER the enactment of the sanctions to which he is appealing and so clearly DO fall within the scope of the sanctions. This should be taken into account whether or not the enactment of these sanctions is deemed valid. --GoRight (talk) 05:22, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments by other users[edit]
(unindent) I haven't been involved in any of this climate change dispute, but I'm inclined to start quickly blocking any users who continue to start or stoke drama, hostility, or other types of disruptive editing around here. Enough is enough. --MZMcBride (talk) 07:27, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to make a note concerning an odd claim that NHT makes: "I am on the absolute opposite side of the climate debate as [GR]". This is bizarre; [10] or [11] show that he is on the skeptic side, just like GR. There is nothing wrong with that in itself; but there is everything wrong with pleading for GR and asking for extra weight by pretending to be on the other "side". [If you don't understand why supporting Beck makes you a skeptic, I can explain in tedious detail, but it would be better done not-here] William M. Connolley (talk) 11:00, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
GoRight: On tendentiousness... Many people now have opined that you ought to be given a warning and that ought to be that. The very first real request is not the place to throw the book. But I have to say that your digging in and insisting that even a warning isn't justified... isn't making you look good. After this performance, if you turn up here again, I bet some people will want to treat you much more harshly than if you'd said "Thanks, I'll keep everyone's advice in mind" and went off and done that. IMHO of course. ++Lar: t/c 14:15, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Result[edit]GoRight (talk · contribs) is warned that further edits of a battleground-like nature will result in sanctions. ⇌ Jake Wartenberg 19:33, 2 January 2010 (UTC) |
Request concerning User:ChrisO
[edit]ChrisO (talk · contribs) by Nothughthomas (talk · contribs)
Request Dismissed |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
The enforcement section is not an appropriate place to push POV. The dog article is under heavy and vibrant climate change discussion and is currently tagged for censorship protocols. Derailing a discussion is WP:DWIP. The fact that the derailer, and apparently only he, finds it to be "levity" is irrelevant. Nothughthomas (talk) 04:39, 2 January 2010 (UTC) I would now like to add to this complaint to note that User:ChrisO, a party to - and subject of - the complaint, is actively reorganizing the placement of the complainants (mine) text which has been intentionally ordered by me for maximum comprehensibility. This is irreconcilable with the fair and impartial adjudication of this complaint and clearly designed to evade and shirk responsibility through an initiative of confusion and muddying. Nothughthomas (talk) 04:58, 2 January 2010 (UTC) Comments by parties against whom enforcement is requested[edit]Dog is not a climate change-related article and is not under article probation. And I hardly think it's a hanging offence to be flippant in response to your assertion that this
Comments by other users[edit]
Result[edit]Dismissed Prodego talk 07:10, 2 January 2010 (UTC) Unrelated / Supplementary Actions[edit]I've blocked Nothughthomas (talk · contribs · global contribs · logs · block log) for 15 minutes for disrupting this process and wasting time. This sort of frivolous wikilawyering will not be tolerated. ++Lar: t/c 05:13, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
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Request concerning Lar
[edit]Lar (talk · contribs) by GoRight (talk · contribs)
This is not the place to request a block be reviewed, dismissed. |
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The following is an archived debate. Please do not modify it. |
Comments by parties against whom enforcement is requested[edit]Nope, doesn't work that way. My view of AGW is my own business. I have no horse in this race, except as an admin here to help enforce the probation, and get things off to a good start. N seemed to be doing rather pointy things at Dog, and then was in my view actively disrupting this process by filing a frivolous request, mimicking other people's wording, making wild accusations about rearrangment of text and other disruptive activities. He was warned, responded with intransigence, and got a 15 minute block so he/she would know I wasn't kidding (I did that to SPUI once, long ago, it worked then too). He/she doesn't have to fear adding his views, if he isn't trying to derail matters. GoRight asking for everyone's head isn't going to work to derail this, unless we let it. As always I invite review of my actions, including the block. ++Lar: t/c 05:50, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments by other users[edit]
Result[edit]If this is an issue with a particular administrative action of Lar's, this is not the avenue. The action he took appears justified and appropriate. I encourage anyone with issues to discuss it with him on his talk page, or AN/I. I also encourage those who file requests ensure that they are intended to solve problems not cause them. If not, then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. I'd propose dismissing this request. Prodego talk 07:28, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
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Multiple Editors
[edit]Multiple Editors by GoRight (talk · contribs)
GoRight warned not to file frivolous or vexatious requests |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Multiple Editors[edit]
Discussion concerning Multiple Editors[edit]This is a ridiculous request, rather pointy and certainly disruptive. How about trying to provide diffs for individual editors. ::rolleyes: Spartaz Humbug! 09:47, 3 January 2010 (UTC) This request has meaning in regard to WP:Tagteam and the pending ArbCom cases. Admins must take this seriously or ArbCom cases could be required. I suggest the request be focused to a specific group of editors. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 15:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC) Statement by Multiple Editors[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning Multiple Editors[edit]Please make a specific request. General complaints about the state of editing on a given article should probably be addressed in other venues. --TS 10:05, 3 January 2010 (UTC) GoRight, you probably shouldn't use a template to complain that the template doesn't work right (your Additional comment #2). Your general complaint is not appropriate here. Further, your "Diffs of prior warnings" points to no warning, in fact it references a different warning placed by 2/0, which warning is not based on this probation. Your Additional comment #1 though, where you state a temptation to go in and do some reverting of your own - that's seems worthy of a formal warning for yourself right there. Franamax (talk) 10:27, 3 January 2010 (UTC) This seems a pretty frivolous request with an ridiculously wide scope - "Anyone that has reverted anything that had been previously reverted", seriously? I agree with Franamax above and suggest that discussions about the template should be directed to this page's talk page. -- ChrisO (talk) 10:43, 3 January 2010 (UTC) Again 2 cents (i'm going to be bankrupt soon): Anyone who has edited on the climate change related articles should have been able to spot that Tender & Privat was a sock or at least not a serious editor. If you considered trying to enforce this users edits, by reverting them back, then i'd say that there is something wrong - but it is neither with the templates, nor with other users. If there is doubt in your mind regarding whether or not the user is a sock, then gently prod the user on his talk-page, and tell them to engage in discussion. Users coming out of nothing (ie. hardly no edits at all) and diving in by reverting a contested area, no matter what "side" they are on, are not serious editors (yet?). Now do not misunderstand that, they may well not be socks, but the behavior is not acceptable either way, so take them gently by the hand, if in doubt, and help them to take a constructive part of the project. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 14:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC) Frivolous request which, because of GoRight's other time-wasting and WP:POINTy recent edits [such as his RfAR/Climate change probation], probably deserves some kind of block. GoRight is misusing wikipedia procedures and should know better. Mathsci (talk) 15:03, 3 January 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Multiple Editors[edit]
I believe GoRight should get about 24 hours for WP:POINT violation. Does another administrator concur? Jehochman Brrr 14:46, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
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William M. Connolley
[edit]William M. Connolley (talk · contribs) #1 by Marknutley (talk · contribs)
Closed as unactionable. Please do not use this page as a mere extension of content disputes. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning William M. Connolley[edit]
William M Connolley seems to have a major problem with any hint of criticism being in any article which deals with climate change. His mentality is that of a gatekeeper and any dissent must be removed. It is precisely because of actions like his that climate related articles have become battle grounds and wikipedia a laughing stock. I have argued in talk only to have my arguments ignored and changes made against consensus. William M Connolley seems to think he wp:owns all climate related pages and refuses to allow even the most minor changes without his say so. Please excuse any mistakes i have made in this as i have not done it before. Thank you. --mark nutley (talk) 19:07, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Response to Kim: Kim says i am throwing accusations around, i do not believe i am. I have said WMC broke trust when he edited contested text which broke the agreement here [[28]] He also says he gave up as there was no interest in the edit/content i would like to point out the folowing [[29]] Discussion ends with no replys from you or wmc [[30]] discussion ends with WMC linking to another article and not addressing the actual discussion. [[31]]Discussion ends with me asking for it to actually be finished. Please do not say i have not been produtive i have acted in good faith and the reason the current friction is in talk is due to WMC make edits without consensus --mark nutley (talk) 21:15, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Discussion concerning William M. Connolley[edit]Statement by William M. Connolley[edit]Has anyone actually bothered to look at the diffs MN supplied? [32] leads me to a page entitled "Gnucleus, Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change". I could perhaps guess which edit he means, but I think it would be better not to guess William M. Connolley (talk) 21:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC) [Added post-close: sorry, I had to go off and blog (just you wait, folks...) and now tht the diff is corrected the report is closed William M. Connolley (talk) 22:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)] Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley[edit]
Discussion at the talkpage is basically productive; the edit in question underwent some discussion prior to being enacted, and has since been upheld. The last few talkpage threads and an open RfC deal with issues around the section in question. I have been monitoring this article, and do not see a need for any enforcement action at this time, though all editors should be aware that the threshold for edit warring is extremely low. - 2/0 (cont.) 19:39, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
The WMC editor's contributions and talk expressed on that page is typical ... many negative (no and not) comments with little offered for a productive NPOV path, then some attempt to change the rules. Marknutley appears to be content stymied by a group of editors owning a POV, and then seeks this request for help. The editor to be sanctioned has been cautioned about this aggressive behavior which essentially is:
Where will it end so Wikipedia may proceed to a NPOV without the disruptive editor? With the sanction, Wikipedia will see a NPOV once again. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 20:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
I do not expect anyone to pile on WMC, that is not my intention. I believe WMC is being deliberately confrontational in his edits and is not seeking consensus as was agreed before page protection was lifted --mark nutley (talk) 21:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Diffs are fixed, i do not know how that happened sorry. mark nutley (talk) 22:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Result concerning William M. Connolley[edit]
Closed, unactionable per JzG and Sandstein's observations. Please don't use this page as a mere extension of content disputes. Jehochman Brrr 22:21, 4 January 2010 (UTC) |
Tony Sidaway
[edit]Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs) by Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs)
reverting obvious socks endorsed, avoid terms like SPA, encourage discussion if possible, thanks to Tony for raising matter |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Tony Sidaway[edit]
Discussion concerning Tony Sidaway[edit]Statement by Tony Sidaway[edit]I believe this edit is in keeping with the intent of the probation because reverts a specific form of edit by a banned editor or an existing editor using a false flag account, that was intended solely to disrupt the achievement of consensus. --TS 05:56, 3 January 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the comment, Lar. I'm also in favor of discussion with good faith editors such as Pete and reaching compromise on presentation of the facts. In this instance I'm really only interested in the question of whether it is appropriate to revert SPAs on an article subject to the probation. The question of the content I revert to (as long as it's not to a vandalized revision and there are no BLP issues in the revision I revert to) shouldn't matter. But I'd like more opinions on this, because I think that kind of scenario is likely to recur and we should settle it early. --TS 06:55, 3 January 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Tony Sidaway[edit]I'm a bit confused by this request. (as in why you're asking for review) But I did some quick scans. A few observations: There appears to be robust discussion at the talk page of various issues related to the article. In a quick skim I did see this particular topic (under heading Talk:Hockey stick controversy#Richard Muller reaction )... where Tillman, who appears to be the editor who put the material in initially, or at least was working on it prior to the sock's appearance, expresses dismay about the removal. T&P appears to be blocked. (as a Scibaby sock, says the block summary, and Scibaby is known to be pretty determined in pushing particular climate related viewpoints, ), but Tillman seems to be an editor that's been around a while... climate is an area of interest but not the only thing this editor edits. I don't think Tony was wrong to revert the sock, but I'd rather see more discussion at the talk and some compromise reached if possible... leaving in the text for a while wouldn't hurt. But if I understand what Tony's driving at, the sock was, by revert warring this back in, interfering with the flow of conversation on the talk page, where the issue was already being worked. ++Lar: t/c 06:50, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I consider the use of the term SPA to be uncivil and baiting when used in this manner. It is unnecessarily provocative because it appears to imply wrongdoing by anyone that happens to be a single purpose editor, such as myself. You might as well have called them a troll or a POV pusher as far as I am concerned, and note that I was warned about using that particular phrase above. There is no prohibition on contributing to the project on a single issue and whether someone does, or does not, choose to do so has no bearing on their value to the project. If these sanctions are to be applied even handedly I would ask that Tony be warned that others may find his use of the term SPA offensive and he should avoid it in a similar context. I do not believe any further action would be required since Tony was obviously forthright enough to draw this to our attention himself. --GoRight (talk) 08:44, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
It was a scibaby sock, and is now blocked. You were correct. GR is an SPA so doesn't like the way they are put to the hiss of the world; he'll just have to live with it William M. Connolley (talk) 10:34, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Tony Sidaway[edit]
I would like to suggest a resolution here, as follows.... that it's considered usually OK to revert obvious socks as Tony did here, (with a reminder to use good judgment about whether the ID is an obvious sock or not) but that perhaps "SPA" isn't necessarily always a good term to use in edit summaries, and that steering discussion to the talk page is to be encouraged whenever practical as an alternative to a bare revert, and that this request be closed with no other action taken (except perhaps thanks and acknowledgment to Tony for raising it on himself). Thoughts? ++Lar: t/c 16:13, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
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Psb777
[edit]Psb777 (talk · contribs) by Viriditas (talk · contribs)
Climatic Research Unit e-mail hacking incident is placed on 1RR. All editors are reminded that a revert limit is a bright line, not an entitlement.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Psb777[edit]
Discussion concerning Psb777[edit]Statement by Psb777[edit]I think there was no urgency required in determining a sanction here. I did not exceed the 3RR rule. I am not in the habit of edit warring. I have backed off leaving the other editor's version in place. I invited the other party to Talk, and I've been on the Talk page ready to talk where others would agree I have avoided being personal, despite some provocation. If an impartial observer looked at who was doing the reversions and the edit warring I think s/he would not have indentified me as the culprit. Count the reverts. There has been a lot of gatekeeping going on. And not by me. Why am I singled out? The upsetting thing about this is that within a very few minutes of the notification of this appearing on my talk page the sanction has been decided upon. Before I had a chance to write this. Or maybe not, maybe you have greater sanctions planned! But a restriction to 1RR will not impact me. Within reasonable memory I have only reverted more than once on two occasions, I think. And, as I said, always I have left the "war" with the other persons version in place. So, in what way is what I do problematic or disruptive. Or is this one of those occasions where you say, see, he cannot even see his own bad behaviour, that's what proves we really need to impose a sanction? :-) No, I know what it is. I've got up a few peoples' noses by being successful in getting a consensus together to make some necessary changes to a seriously lacking NPOV article. Anyway, let's see what happens next. Maybe by the time I press the save button there will be some description of what I am supposed to have done. Paul Beardsell (talk) 16:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Re comment by Ryan: I don't follow, where have I been warned about particular behaviour yet I have continued to do so. No, that's not correct. Paul Beardsell (talk) 16:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Further comment to Ryan: I think you've been fooled here. ChrisO may have placed a 3RR notice on my page but I had not and did not exceed the 3RRs. In fact I may have only done 2. I'll check. And ChrisO placed an edit-war banner on my page twice but that really should not be taken as evidence of an edit war, look for yourself. You must be aware that a common technique is to allege bad behaviour by others? Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Re viriditus's "under the radar" comment. This truly is ridiculous. I am here under my own name, everything I do at WP is at WP. I don't take part in any off-WP chat sessions. I never ever send WP related e-mail to another WP user. There is no off WP coordination of 3RR avoidance etc etc. What Viriditus says is under the radar is most definitely ON THE RADAR with me. And what is on the radar? Me suggesting to two participants on the Talk page that they actually edit the article. Have a look! Or didn't V provide the links? Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:11, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Here is relevant. I was writing this while Ryan couldn't wait a few minutes before issuing a scanction. Thanks to Troed for his comment Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:17, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Here is where V says I was warned by him/her previously but you'll see, s/he backed off and agreed that perhaps she was wrong. V was fooled here too by ChrisO's placement of an edit warring tag on my page when I had reverted only twice and where I left the page at his preferred version, backing off first. In all fairness, if anyone needed a tag it was him, he having regularly reverted all suggested changes to the FAQ from any user. Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2010 (UTC) I think the lesson to be learned here is always shoot first. Always be the person to make the allegation of bad behaviour first. Is that the lesson you are trying to teach here.?' Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2010 (UTC) I think however that the lesson to be learnt really is always carefully check allegations of bad behaviour. Now, please lift the sanction so that you can see there is no need to levy one one on me. Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:24, 4 January 2010 (UTC) This edit is listed incorrectly as a third revert whereas (1) it was to a different version and (2) the edit was discussed with and encouraged by Hipocrite on the Talk page - it certainly felt consensual and nobody complained of a third revert at the time or since, until now. Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC) can I ask Viriditas if s/he collated the "evidence" or was it provided by someone? Paul Beardsell (talk) 17:36, 4 January 2010 (UTC) I obviously can't add. I had thought it was 21 minutes from Viriditas's request to Ryan's imposition of the sanction. No. it was only 13 minutes. Paul Beardsell (talk) 18:13, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Psb777[edit]
I feel must correct some misrepresentations in Paul's statement above. I did not give him a "3RR warning"; I notified him of the article probation, using the template at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation#Notification of probation, after he (re)added to the article some blog-sourced material concerning criticism of living people (which is of course disallowed by WP:BLP and WP:V). When he expressed an intention to continue reverting, I left a message requesting him to engage in discussion to find consensus and advising him against disruptive editing, as he was opening himself up to to possible enforcement action. I emphasised that I did not intend to submit an enforcement request. I'd hoped to encourage Paul to pursue discussion and avoid him ending up here, but evidently that hasn't worked. -- ChrisO (talk) 19:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Interesting how this works. Here you have people totally disregarding a very well sourced statement as discussed now at Talk:Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident#About_.22trick_to_hide_the_decline.22_.E2.80.93_removing_well_sourced_comments.3F (again). As far as I've seen the at the WP:A/R has said the following about that kind of removals. Restoring "statements that are sourced reliably, written in a neutral narrative, and pertain to the subject at hand." is just an action to restore a "disruptive" action, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Hkelkar#Removal_of_sourced_edits_made_in_a_neutral_narrative_is_disruptive, so Paul Beardsell should not be sanctioned here. The people removing the stuff is doing the misconduct here as far as I see per the above cited WP:A/R paragraph. I see that they're attacking both the sources [40] and [41] used in this paragraph, since the content is so damaging to their (AGW-)Cause (my interpretion). Feel free to look into this also (Which resemble this case Talk:Climatic_Research_Unit_e-mail_hacking_incident#Pressmulti_-_removal_of_a_piece_with_millions_of_readers.3F_-_Climategate:_the_corruption_of_Wikipedia and you see the same pattern by the same group of users). Nsaa (talk) 20:32, 4 January 2010 (UTC) I missed this and I think it's about to close, but I have a serious comment so I'll make it here anyway.
Result concerning Psb777[edit]
I wouldn't be opposed to putting the entire article on 1RR instead. But what can't happen is everyone feeling entitled to 3 reverts - there are too many editors for that. Prodego talk 18:51, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
Users ought not be sanctioned via this page until they've had a chance to respond, except for egregious situations like threats, harassment or severe attacks. If an editor ignores the notification and continues any objectionable editing, then they could be sanctioned. I also dislike 1RR for articles. That's a major step that should not be taken unless there has been a good, thorough discussion, which has not yet happened here. Jehochman Brrr 01:00, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
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Marknutley
[edit]Marknutley (talk · contribs) #1 by Viriditas (talk · contribs)
No action. All editors are reminded to be proactive in seeking consensus at the talkpage.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Marknutley[edit]
Discussion concerning Marknutley[edit]Statement by Marknutley[edit]First diff is a revert based on the fact that WMC`s reason most certainly was not within the rules i:e He removed it as he thinks monckton is a wacko, ignoring the fact that senator steve fielding also signed that letter. Second diff was not the same text, it was totaly rewritten Third diff, speaks for itself. user chriso was extremely rude and disparaging in his edit summary [[46]] and i got angry, i self reverted and did in fact explain why on my talk page when admonished by user hipocrite. I do not feel i have been deliberately disruptive at all, if you look on the tak pages you will see that for the most part i have tried to reason with all concerned, however this has proved pointless, as can be seen on the talk pages as soon as i am proving my points within the rules against the objections of just a few editors all dialogue stops. They refuse to respond, and just carry on with their usual revert my inclusions or any inclusions the ydo not like the look of. WMC made two reverts in the same article as the third diff, a clear breach of the probation and i fail to see him being brought to book for this? I leave this in the hands of the admins and hope they see that i have acted throughout in good faith with the occasional lapse through frustration. Thank you. --mark nutley (talk) 21:59, 7 January 2010 (UTC) @zulupapa5 does this Wikipedia:PRESERVE#Try_to_fix_problems:_preserve_information not mean that when WMC Chriso and Atmoz reverted they actually broke an existing rule, not just probation? @WMC Given that you actually broke the probation you have some cheek calling for me to be topic banned :) Comments by others about the request concerning Marknutley[edit]Comment by ATren Another frivolous request. This is a sourced claim that is currently under dispute. Note, the last two edits cancel each other, since he self-reverted after warnings. The second edit was substantially different from the first, an attempt to reword the text to address the concerns of other editors, with an edit comment of "rewritten COI allegations to show from his perspective". So his first edit was a revert, his second edit was a revert but with changed wording in an attempt at compromise, and his third edit was nullified by his later self-revert. So, in summary: revert, attempt at compromise, (revert, self revert back after consideration). And for this you want a topic ban? Isn't this getting a bit silly? ATren (talk) 21:39, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Comment by GoRight I would remind everyone about WP:BITE. Mark appears to be a good faith editor who is still learning the ropes. I believe that he has already survived a checkuser as a suspected SciBaby sock puppet so we can all rest assured that he is legitimate. Any edit warring on his part appears to be WP:BOLD attempts to move the articles forward based on sound policy and he has contributed extensively to the discussions on the talk pages that I am aware of. Listing a self-reversion above as an example of wrong-doing is kind of laughable, IMHO. He obviously decided it was better to take things to talk rather than continue reverting. Isn't that the behavior these sanctions are trying to encourage? I think on that point at least he should be commended, not reprimanded. --GoRight (talk) 21:36, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Regarding him being an SPA, (a) he hasn't been here long enough to have had a wide variety of experiences so he may not truly be an SPA, only time will tell, and (b) there is no prohibition on being an SPA anyways. All are free to contribute to the project in whatever ways they choose to. We are all volunteers, right? --GoRight (talk) 21:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Comment by BozMo Topic ban is too Draconian in my view. I believe Mark to be a genuine newbie with some serious beliefs on Climate Change but still learning about Wikipedia policies and how things work. I don't think he is a sock or that the account looked like it had WP experience. In the above he did 2RR and self reverted a third. One of the two "prior" warnings was after the event and the other was a general warning without anything too specific. Previously on one article (IPCC) he self reverted after I warned him about edit warning only to see others break what I had said was the most likely line in the sand. He brings enthusiasm to the project and is out searching for references and checking things up. It is not surprising that sometimes he gets the impression we have two sets of rules. I think we should still assume good faith and be a little patient. I think he will improve the quality of WP through challenging others. Something like putting him on 1RR or an extremely clear set of rules might be ok but he is frustrated because he cannot understand the differences between his edits and those of others. --BozMo talk 21:41, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Comment by nsaa As far as I see he has not violated the 1RR per 24h rule imposed on the article. The first example is a revert, the second is not a revert, but a rewrite, the third was self reverted as stated. As far as I see the removal by Atmoz (talk · contribs) was possible a break as described here Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Hkelkar#Removal_of_sourced_edits_made_in_a_neutral_narrative_is_disruptive. Nsaa (talk) 21:42, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Comments by William M. Connolley The best thing to do is look at MN's contributions. There is an awful lot of unproductive argument on talk pages and a telling lack of productive edits. Indeed the only productive edit I could see was a revert of anon nonsense on Scaffolding. Given such a tiny ratio of productive edits to unproductive edits, I think a topic ban, for a brief time - perhaps a week - would be valuable. If he is able to discover some interests outside political infighting on the GW pages, during that period, then the ban could be lifted William M. Connolley (talk) 21:55, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments by Tony Sidaway Mark is a relative newcomer, I think we all recognise that and I suggest that this does make any offence less than those he was edit warring with. I think we experienced editors should be held to a higher standard and, if we're going to look at Mark's edit warring, we should look at our own too. After all, where did he pick up these bad habits? --TS 14:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC) Comments by ZuluPapa5 Warning maybe ... topic ban, over the top and abusive call for some who corrected themselves. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 18:35, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments by JzG I think at this point the outcome is, de facto, that marknutley is on notice to give more thought to is contributions and to be mindful of the potential to cause drama through ill-judged comments. I think we can probably leave it at that for now, if he does not heed this warning then it is likely we will find consensus for a topic ban of some duration. Guy (Help!) 20:35, 9 January 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Marknutley[edit]
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Global cooling
[edit]Global cooling by Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs)
Things seem to be getting hot at Global cooling, with several incipient revert wars involving multiple parties. Admin engagement might be helpful. --TS 21:19, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
- Interesting. I am not being pointy I just want to know. Is this an appropriate use of this board? I thought we were supposed to be using the template which is focused on single user behavior? When I tried to point out an edit war above I got smacked up side the head for it. Please clarify how this request is different than the one I raised above titled Multiple Editors. --GoRight (talk) 03:31, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
- The comments at multiple editors were inflamatory, not a fairly npov notice of an incipient problem area. Do your best and talk folks down off their ledges. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 06:37, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
GoRight
[edit]GoRight (talk · contribs) #2 by Tony Sidaway (talk · contribs)
Closed as not requiring action |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning GoRight[edit]
In aggregate and over such a short timespan these are evidence that GoRight aims to flout the conditions under which he was recently unblocked, and to continue with his war-like approach to Wikipedia.
Discussion concerning GoRight[edit]Statement by GoRight[edit]Well, this appears to be the next logical step in WP:HARASSing me. I have responded to Tony's accusations on my talk page, so I see no need to repeat myself here. As far as I know none of my actions since being unblocked have violated the terms of (a) my promises for being unblocked, or (b) the terms of the conditions of the probationary sanctions. If they have in some way, it was purely inadvertent on my part. I suspect that there is little that I can say to affect the course of the discussion which will now ensue here so I shall take my leave. If further input from me is required please contact me on my talk page. --GoRight (talk) 16:50, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning GoRight[edit]This report is frivolous. To address each point:
If GoRight's previous requests on this page were considered frivolous, this certainly fits the bill, and I would hope that admins would treat this report no differently. ATren (talk) 16:47, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Furthermore, Lar's and Viridae's conflict with GoRight has apparently been resolved to everyone's satisfaction, why is it being raised again here? ATren (talk) 16:49, 7 January 2010 (UTC) My response to GoRight's unfounded accusation is here. This has nothing whatsoever to do with GoRight. I had been looking at User:Marknutley's contributions in relation to his ongoing discussion at Talk:Rajendra K. Pachauri, saw his edits to User:Marknutley/The Gore Effect, read that page (currently being discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Marknutley/The Gore Effect), nominated it for speedy deletion as an attack page - for which it was deleted by Dank (talk · contribs) - and found GoRight going apeshit on my talk page. I'd not had any prior contact or discussion with GoRight about Marknutley's page and wasn't even aware that he was involved with it until I checked the history after I'd nominated it for speedy deletion. This is a gross overreaction by GoRight and I agree with Tony that, along with the other behaviour that he notes, it casts serious doubt on the sincerity of GoRight's promise to reform. -- ChrisO (talk) 16:58, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I panicked during the first hour or two of GoRight's editing. He's still GoRight, but despite my fears he apparently hasn't continued to stir things up. I apologise to all, and especially to GoRight, for making a premature and ill-advised request. I've criticised others for this and I should have known better. --TS 14:44, 8 January 2010 (UTC) Result concerning GoRight[edit]
Proposed result: No action. All editors are reminded that collaborative is better than combative. If this looks like a fair assessment, would someone please close this? - 2/0 (cont.) 15:04, 8 January 2010 (UTC) OK closed. --BozMo talk 22:16, 11 January 2010 (UTC) |
Jpat34721
[edit]Jpat34721 (talk · contribs) by Hipocrite (talk · contribs)
Jpat34721 is banned from the pages Climatic Research Unit hacking incident and Talk:Climatic Research Unit hacking incident until 2010-02-13.
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Request concerning Jpat34721[edit]
Discussion concerning Jpat34721[edit]Statement by Jpat34721[edit]Hipocrite pointed out on my talk page that the edit in question might be considered a revert. Even though I didn't think it qualified (it was attempt at compromise by adding a link to the section where the disputed neologism is discussed in full), to be safe I self-reverted prior to hipocrit's accusation here. It appears that my self revert doesn't show up in the page history perhaps because someone had already reverted my edit, but I assume the history of my attempt exists in a log somewhere. JPatterson (talk) 19:30, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
I would also point out that when I made the edit in question, I entered this on the talk page, "I have tried a compromise edit which combines "colloquially known" with a link from "Climategate" to the naming the incident section. Comments? JPatterson (talk) 17:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Clearly, I was not edit warring but attempting to find common ground. JPatterson (talk) 19:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC) As to his comment's re the lead, my position is that the current wording goes against WP policy. It is either OR or an factually wrong, depending on how one interprets the word "dubbed". My goal is not POV pushing but moving toward an article that chronicles the controversy instead of passing judgment on it. JPatterson (talk) 19:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Bizmo has a strange definition of contentious editing. In an article where the editors are as deeply divided along partisan lines as they are here, any edit is contended. I have proposed numerous "compromises" in an attempt to find middle ground (hence the many posts). I have tried WP:Bold, revert, discuss, I have requested 3rd party help on the NPOV message board with no takers. To single out one user in this mess is patently absurd, especially when that user has engaged constructively (and in many cases successfully) toward reaching consensus. WMC: The edit you point to ([68]) was in no way a revert (please find the edit I supposedly reverted, I've gone back 7 days and can't find it). We have reached consensus that contentious labels and characterizations are not to be used. In this case, the label applied was not even supported by the cite, as was made clear in my edit summary. Looking over the page history, the characterization I removed, was at least Comments by others about the request concerning Jpat34721[edit]TS: As a matter of transparency I should say I disengaged from that article after accusations of ownership. Having said that I can only encourage uninvolved admins to look carefully at the fulness of the evolving situation on that rather sensitive article. Removal of some editors may be merited, but I stopped watching it a week or so ago. --TS 18:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved Mark Nutley This to me seems incredibly stupid, "dubbed "Climategate" by sceptics of anthropogenic climate change," Since watergate every scandel has ended up being called whatever-gate I am curious as to how this particular scandals name is being attributed to skeptics and not just the usual lazy journo`s not even trying to come up with a new name. Take the expenses scandel in the uk recently, expensesgate, not scamalot which has gotta be the best name but nope, expensesgate. I would also like to see the reliable sources which state that this name was coined by sceptics as well. And not a source which is pro AGW, a neutral source please. I have looked at the diffs and i see jpat trying to compromise with different wording and he did try a revert but had to do it manually "17:15, 11 January 2010 Jpat34721 (talk | contribs) (91,549 bytes) (last rv failed. Doing it manually)" Is this perhaps the self revert he means? --mark nutley (talk) 20:00, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
WMC: User:Jpat34721 is misbehaving here and needs sanctionning to remind him (and indeed others) that the rules really do exist and have teeth. Article / topic ban for a while seems like a good idea, with possible remission after a while if credible efforts to be productive elsewhere become clear. Nb: I struck "uninvolved" from MN's self-description: that is laughable William M. Connolley (talk) 22:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Comment re MN's evidence: all that misses the point. This isn't a place to rehash all the old arguments. The question here is whether J's edits were a violation of the article parole William M. Connolley (talk) 22:43, 11 January 2010 (UTC) WMC (again): I think this is fairly simple. J had broken the 1RR parole on this article very clearly by the time of this report. *After* this report he has continued reverting [70]. If this doesn't trigger a block then these sanctions have become meaningless William M. Connolley (talk) 22:56, 11 January 2010 (UTC) GoRight: I think the sanction proposed by BozMo is clearly excessive given that there is much contentious edit warring from both sides. --GoRight (talk) 23:11, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Arzel: Why is BozMo, who appears to be an involved administrator, giving his recomendations in the section specifically stated for uninvolved administrators? Perhaps he is not, but he does seem to be more involved than one would expect a completely neutral admin to be. Aside from that this appears to be nothing more than an attempt to quiet three editors (JPat, Tillman, and Heyitspeter) from editing global warming articles. Arzel (talk) 01:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Jpat34721[edit]
Wow. I haven't gone back more than a week into the history but even without probation in place if I saw someone doing as many contentious edits in 24 hours I would use some sort of sanction. There is an arguable 3RR (depending what you think about the self revert and attempt to compromise above) and five contenious edits in seven hours. There is also an unhealthy focus of edits on this page (couple of hundred edits to the article and talk in a week). All this on an article on probation. My proposal would be a one month ban from this topic and talk page. Any seconder? --BozMo talk 22:28, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
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Tillman
[edit]Tillman (talk · contribs) by Hipocrite (talk · contribs)
No action. All editors are reminded to be proactive in seeking consensus at the talkpage.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Tillman[edit]
Discussion concerning Tillman[edit]Statement by Tillman[edit]The question of referring to Climategate has been discussed many times at the article talk page, and I have participated in many such discussions, for example here, here and here. I have been active in editing this page since its inception. Hipocrite calling this a "drive-by revert" is incorrect, and, in my opinion, borders on a WP:Personal attack. Additionally, Hipocrites quoted "warning", above [74], was a "routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits." I regard this charge as attempted intimidation by User:Hipocrite, who has been very actively opposing any use of the term Climategate for this controversy. Thank you, Pete Tillman (talk) 21:13, 11 January 2010 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Tillman[edit]Comment by William M. Connolley (talk)[edit]I disagree with Tillman's viewpoint on this article and I disagree with his revert [75] but I would be sorry to see this request actionned. Tillman *has* participated in talk and I think that characterising this as drive-by, or sanctionning him for it, would be regrettable, even if there is some slight evidence of carelessness in reverting this when it was already in there. I too have rather lost track of the revert status of this article. There are other people here who need sanctionning first. William M. Connolley (talk) 22:38, 11 January 2010 (UTC) A quick review of Hipocrite's contributions, [76], reveals that H himself is deeply involved in this conflict. I shall call out a number of his edits to substantiate that here in a bit. His choosing to bring enforcement requests against his opponents in a content dispute warrants a warning, IMHO, similar to that which was issued to myself regarding listing frivolous and vexatious requests here. This request in particular would easily fall into that category. --GoRight (talk) 23:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Tillman[edit]
I don't think this is actionable. Not the greatest edit ever given the contention and repetition but not drive by (previous edit was 24 hours earlier to talk page) and certainly not actionable. If another uninvolved admin agrees could they please close this. --BozMo talk 22:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
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Ling.Nut
[edit]Ling.Nut (talk · contribs) by Dave souza (talk · contribs)
All editors are reminded to adhere strictly to the topic of improving the associated article when posting to an article's talkpage. Ling.Nut is cautioned that concerns of bad faith and inappropriate collusion should be dealt with through WP:Dispute resolution, not aired at talkpages.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Ling.Nut[edit]
Discussion concerning Ling.Nut[edit]Statement by Ling.Nut[edit]
Comments by others about the request concerning Ling.Nut[edit]From Cla68: Neither of the two diffs presented are directed at anyone in particular. Instead, both are complaints about Wikipedia's current structure, which I myself have complained about on numerous occasions. Is it against the Climate Change probation to complain about Wikipedia? I don't think so. This appears to be an unactionable request. Cla68 (talk) 12:25, 10 January 2010 (UTC) From Tony Sidaway: I had been following the discussion on Ling.nut's page this morning, and have left him a note about dispute resolution. The talk page of Climatic Research Unit e-mail hacking incident can be very frustrating for all involved, and these instances of low-grade griping and personal attacks are part of the problem. Perhaps all parties in that case should be steered towards mediation. Concerns about the consensus policy and the like are best tackled on the talk page of the relevant policy. --TS 12:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC) From Viriditas: From Pete Tillman: I didn't participate in this discussion, but I've found Ling.nut's other contributions to be thoughtful & helpful -- in particular, he's spent considerable effort trying to improve Climate change denial, a notoriously contentious and difficult article. I think Ling is fairly new on the Wikipedia climate-change scene. As Tony notes above, the subject page in particular is a frustrating one, and I've made some soapboxy comments myself on that talk page that, in retrospect, probably weren't constructive. Everyone involved should remember to "keep cool". Thanks, Pete Tillman (talk) 19:14, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning Ling.Nut[edit]
I collapsed the relevant section at Talk:Climatic Research Unit hacking incident#Rename redux, as it was in no way related to improving Climatic Research Unit hacking incident. Ling.Nut has made some assurances concerning both discussion and editing, and is discussing the wider issue of the Wikipedia model elsewhere. Proposed close: All editors are reminded to adhere strictly to the topic of improving the associated article when posting to an article's talkpage. Ling.Nut is cautioned that concerns of bad faith and inappropriate collusion should be dealt with through WP:Dispute resolution, not aired at talkpages. - 2/0 (cont.) 02:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC) |
Heyitspeter
[edit]Heyitspeter (talk · contribs) by Hipocrite (talk · contribs)
Heyitspeter agrees not to add, remove, or move any material related to the term climategate or its description in the lead section for a month
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Heyitspeter[edit]
Discussion concerning Heyitspeter[edit]Statement by Heyitspeter[edit]I suppose I should start by asking that the 4th diff be removed as irrelevant. That was a copy/paste typo and I quickly self-reverted as shown here. In regards to diffs 1-3. Note that all the edits were differently worded and responded to different stages of discussion in the talkpage. These edits were individual, honest attempts to improve the article spaced out over several days. The "by sceptics of anthropogenic climate change" clause has been repeatedly contested on the talkpage by many different users (e.g., a short scroll through the current talkpage and recent archive yields the following sections: [99], [100], [101], [102]), and is contradicted by sources discussed in the article in this section. It is my understanding that this means, respectively, that inclusion of the disputed clause violates WP:CONSENSUS and WP:LEAD. In summary: my motivation for making edits 1-3 was to bring the article in line with these two policies by providing a factual, informative version of the sentence, supported by the body of the article, that both sides of the discussion can agree to (cf. my explanation for diff 2: [103]).
Thanks.--Heyitspeter (talk) 19:54, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Heyitspeter[edit]WMC I think this request can be closed with an acknowledgement of HiP's volunteering to leave that sentence alone William M. Connolley (talk) 11:10, 12 January 2010 (UTC) Result concerning Heyitspeter[edit]
Currently doing the same edit once every 24+ hours three times is a nuisance but looking through the page history there are other people who are being far more of a nuisance and we should deal with them first. I suggest we tell Peter we aren't going to accept many more edits from him on sentences containing the word "Climategate" and leave it at that. Any seconder? --BozMo talk 22:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
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JettaMann
[edit]JettaMann (talk · contribs) by Hipocrite (talk · contribs)
JettaMann is topic banned from William Connolley and related articles, broadly construed, and interaction banned from User:William M. Connolley.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning JettaMann[edit]
Discussion concerning JettaMann[edit]Statement by JettaMann[edit]Comments by others about the request concerning JettaMann[edit]I disagree that second diff violates BLP. This seems like something better handled via a disruption route rather than being specifically related to the Climate change probation. Prodego talk 18:37, 4 January 2010 (UTC) This is a slightly unusual case in that the target of JettaMann's comments is both a BLP subject and a Wikipedia contributor. As such, I think the no personal attacks and civility policies are clearly applicable here. The claim that WMC is a "Global Warming activist who got caught gaming Wikipedia" strikes me as both a personal attack and a highly incivil comment that displays a battleground mentality - none of which should be encouraged. I would suggest closing this with a firm warning that any further incivility will result in blocks. -- ChrisO (talk) 19:31, 4 January 2010 (UTC) JettaMan was blocked for 10 days by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise on December 10 for "disruptive tendentious editing and personal attacks on Talk:Climatic Research Unit e-mail hacking incident". After the block expired he made one edit, a less than civil comment aimed at User:William M. Connolley, on December 22, before making the edits in question. Guettarda (talk) 21:14, 4 January 2010 (UTC) I am inclined to agree with ChrisO; these are incivil and battleground-like edits, though not so problematic by themselves that they require immediate sanctions. A final warning should suffice in this case. (Disclaimer: I have participated in that same content dispute during the past few days, after learning about that article through my OTRS work, though I have made no other contributions to climate-related topics that I can recall.) Sandstein 21:25, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Jettamann seems to have a modest but blame-free record of editing on other matters, but severely problematic behavior on the subject of global warming. He was blocked for disruption last month and as soon as he comes back he's already engaging in some pretty serious attacks. I suggest a warning that he faces a topic ban if he acts disruptively again. We could use this otherwise productive editor on other parts of the encyclopedia where his feelings do not overrule his judgement. --TS 00:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC) I've sent the following note to Jettamann by Wikipedia email:
--TS 12:54, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
I agree (less angrily) with WMC. We don't ask BLP victims not to have contact with their abusers in other circumstances. If WMC were to start needling this (almost certain never to return) account, there would be no need to warn him at all - just block WMC till he stops. I don't see anything in my (not WMC, who has had zero involvement with this user to date) request asking for anything about WMC the editor, rather William Connolley the Living Person who was defamed by wikipedia in violation of WP:BLP on an article under general sanction. This is not about editor interaction, it's about editing an article disruptively. Hipocrite (talk) 16:30, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't see how either of the quotes provided above are bannable BLP violations. The first - "a Wikipedia arbitration committee found him guilty of violating a number of Wikipedia rules" seems true. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abd-William_M._Connolley found that he used admin tools while involved (Findings of Fact #14) and that he edit warred (Findings of fact #14-1 and #14-3 and Remedy #7). It is a violation of WP:V in that it isn't sourced, but it's hard to argue that adding a true statement to an article once merits a ban. The second is questioning the notability of the subject on a talk page. This is commonplace and, while it is a bit harsh and could be viewed as a personal attack, I don't see how it merits a ban either. Is there conduct other than these two diffs? I am also concerned that disallowing a user to interact with WMC is in effect a topic ban because WMC edits such a wide range of global warming pages. I think the appropriate thing is either a warning or a topic ban of limited duration. Oren0 (talk) 01:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
The non-interaction provision is clearly not going to be practical if they are allowed to edit GW pages. No one can edit GW pages without crossing paths with WMC and this provision allows one-sided sniping, regardless of whether there is a history of such sniping or not, which is obviously unfair. The sanctions should be symetric in this regards. --GoRight (talk) 04:08, 7 January 2010 (UTC) Result concerning JettaMann[edit]
Provisional result: JettaMann is indefinitely topic banned from all pages related to William Connolley, broadly construed, and interaction banned from User:William M. Connolley. I don't see evidence here sufficient to topic ban JettaMann from all Global Warming pages. The previous 10 day block was immediately followed by personal attacks and violations of WP:BLP, per the evidence cited above. Just because somebody edits Wikipedia their biography does not become a free fire zone. Please keep this thread open until JettaMann comments, or until a total of 48 hours have passed from the initial filing, and then log the sanction, notify the user, and close this thread. In this case indefinitely means until suitable explanations, retractions and assurances are provided to ensure that the objectionable conduct will not recur. Jehochman Brrr 03:12, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
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1rr Violation User:Dcowboys3109
[edit]Dcowboys3109 (talk · contribs) by Hipocrite (talk · contribs)
Blocked.
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[108], [109]. Blatent, and obvious. Hipocrite (talk) 02:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
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William M. Connolley
[edit]William M. Connolley (talk · contribs) #2 by Marknutley (talk · contribs)
No action. All editors are reminded to be proactive in seeking dispute resolution, starting with the talkpage.
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Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning William M. Connolley[edit]
Discussion concerning William M. Connolley[edit]Statement by William M. Connolley[edit]I'm baffled. What does an edit that happened 11 days ago [117] at Rajendra K. Pachauri made by MN not me have to do with me? (or indeed this [118]? Has MN fouled up his diffs, or am I missing the point?) William M. Connolley (talk) 22:34, 17 January 2010 (UTC) Also, I'm missing and an explanation how these edits violate it from MN's diffs. This looks just like pointless disruption on his part William M. Connolley (talk) 22:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning William M. Connolley[edit]Unless this article was specifically under 1RR, this is inappropriate. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 22:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm disappointed by the complaint and the response. This is classic battleground behavior. Over the course of a few hours, a content dispute has grown into trench warfare, with no chance of consensus or resolution. Please, everybody, look at LessHeard vanU's warning above, and take it to heart. Drop the attitude and step away, all of you. --TS 23:17, 17 January 2010 (UTC) What the hell is going on here? why is there a content dispute in the middle of this request? If it keeps up i would ask the whole lot be archived, what a mess. mark nutley (talk) 23:27, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we close this with a general note that multiple reverts aren't an entitlement and the terms of the probation entail an obligation to responsible engagement. The healing of the climate change articles is more important and should be given a higher priority than any one edit. --TS 12:18, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Result concerning William M. Connolley[edit]
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Scjessey
[edit]Scjessey (talk · contribs) by Heyitspeter (talk · contribs)
No action taken. Misunderstanding of 1RR provision.
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I'm worried I'm misinterpreting the rules here, so I figured I'd pull a Hipocrite and lay down the request without using the template. It seems to me that Scjessey violated the 1RR rule with this edit, which reversed three unrelated, recent edits. I'd like the editor to self-revert. --Heyitspeter (talk) 00:48, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
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Biosequestration dispute
[edit]William M. Connolley (talk · contribs) #3 by NimbusWeb (talk · contribs)
Content discussion moved to Talk:Biosequestration#Biosequestration dispute on multiple articles. Please continue content discussion there. NimbusWeb briefly blocked for edit warring. All editors are reminded that there is no deadline and consensus should be sought for any edits under dispute.
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Conclusions are reached on the basis of evidence available. All that is necessary is to examine the edit history of you two in relation to Hansen comments. 'Absurd' is just an irrelevant appeal to a negative emotion. Why should you assume that your point of view represents consensus, especially when what you are trying to do is remove referenced material and make ideas hard to understand? The discussion board has been used extensively to try and prevent your disruptive edits. It appears to have failed. Higher level scrutiny is now requiredNimbusWeb (talk) 20:19, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Administrator attention to recent very acrimonious edit warring on these articles might be merited. --TS 19:09, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I agree provided the disruptive edits on 'biosequestration' 'carbon tax' and "Kyoto Protocol' can be reverted to where they were before this blew up.NimbusWeb (talk) 20:23, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
But TS-look at what they did at 'carbon tax' they replaced the words 'carbon sequestration' at coal plants with 'sequestration' at coal plants-making the idea unintelligible. Sequestration of what? Carbon? Well why not say it-except that it creates an unpalatable precedent for teh coal industry. Why should that sort of disruptive editing be allowed to stand indefinitely. This is why formal dispute resolution should commence here. This is not a small issue for the coal industry NimbusWeb (talk) 20:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Beware editors that have retainers from the coal industry to make sure ideas requiring them to sequester carbon as a condition of operating never see the light of day.NimbusWeb (talk) 20:58, 17 January 2010 (UTC) OK, I'm requesting enforcement. NW is now over 3RR, despite warnings about 3RR. I've reported this at Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:NimbusWeb_reported_by_User:William_M._Connolley_.28Result:_.29. However it would be desirable to deal with it here William M. Connolley (talk) 21:11, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I'm fully aware of the warning but think it should be applied to WMC and AR. Please note I placed a similar warning on WMC's talk page which he also deleted. Such editing is allowed on your own talk page. So let's get this right. You two gang up and start deleting whole paragraphs of referenced material on Hansen's ideas (see biosequestration-policy implications section) and making them unintelligible (replacing 'carbon sequestration with 'sequestration). This is despite the sections being changed being fully justified on the discussion page. Particular references include Hansen writing in his open letter to Obama and his book that power plants need 'carbon sequestration'. You allege that can't refer to algal biosequestration despite Garnaut amongst others specifically making that connection. When I try to stand up to your disruptive editing you invoke 3RR and try to bully me into submission. You call me a 'noob' claim I am 'spamming'. I'm the editor who is trying to write sentences with full references. You two are the editors who are trying to delete them or make them unintelligible. It will be interesting to see who is censored and no doubt also somewhat revealing about the internal administration at wikipedia and how this climate change probation system works and who runs it.NimbusWeb (talk) 21:48, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
I have been asked to review recent editing and conduct issues relating to the above, by Tony Sidaway[edit]It is my conclusion that Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs), NimbusWeb (talk · contribs) and William M. Connolley (talk · contribs) are all in violation of Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation, relating to edit warring (I am not concerned with the technicalities of 3RR or team tagging) and WP:NPA (again, I am not concerned who is the most egregious practitioner). If I were not of the opinion that any short sanction would simply pause the continuation of these violations I would have sanctioned all three named editors for 24 hours, so no "advantage" may accrue to either side of the dispute. Under the circumstances, I am now warning all the above editors that any infraction of the Climate Change Probation by any party will result in a 72 hour block for all three - possibly disrupting the other WP activities of all concerned. I would ask Tony Sidaway to notify me of any infraction, although I would comment that I shall take sole responsibility to the blocks imposed, after notifying the parties concerned and reviewing any response/appeal. While drastic, I feel my actions are permissible under the Probation and are designed to impress upon the editors the necessity of keeping within the restrictions. The above will apply as soon as Tony Sidaway agrees to referee the application of this warning. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:53, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
Those tags were clearly disruptive given the talk page of the article has extensive discussion in which multiple editors have attempted to answer AR's pedantic and disruptive views on Hansen's use of the word "biosequestration' instead of the synonym 'carbon sequestration'. Reinsertion would only reopen the dispute.NimbusWeb (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
OK. I apologise. But isn't the claim above my most recent entry above a personal attack on me?NimbusWeb (talk) 02:14, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Utterly bizarre[edit]This is utterly bizarre. There is an absolutely clear 3RR violation by NW, correctly reported, and we have a pile of admins (yes I know you're watching) saying "la la la I can't see it". Regardless of the article probation, that should lead to a simple block on NW. TS is saying "This is a train wreck" - no, it isn't. This is a very simple situation which had it been handled in the normal way would have caused no problems at all William M. Connolley (talk) 08:19, 18 January 2010 (UTC) It appears that there is sanity in the world after all: [125] William M. Connolley (talk) 11:04, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
WMC deleted the warnings I placed on his talk page. He doesn't refer to that. I guess he lives to different rules. He claims there were 'more like 15 articles' which is a blatant three fold exaggeration designed to impugn my credibility. Hopefully the real lesson the wiki editing community learns is to watch the edits of AR and WMC very closely particularly in relation to Hansen's ideas that 1) on-site carbon sequestration should be a legal operating condition of coal plants and that 2) coal, gas and oil should be taxed and the dividend returned to people at a rate depending on their carbon footprint. No doubt also, more objective editors will see through what is going on here. Why do AR and WMC turn up in certain articles only to remove or distort comments Hansen has made? Who knows, my favoured hypothesis is that they simply don't like the way Hansen dresses. But if there are senior editors in wikipedia who are allowed to go around deleting whatever referenced sentences they feel like on dubious excuses which we have seen in this dispute like links are dead (when they are not), people aren't notable (when they are), precise words aren't used (when the meaning is otherwise clear) etc etc, then expect the rest of us to play catch up and seek consensus before reverting them, those senior editors should only get such privileges if they are prepared to disclose their actual identities to an internal wiki hierarchy and have any conflicts of interest fully disclosed. Otherwise the ongoing credibility of the system will be in jeopardy. This will be particularly important in areas where the coal or pharmaceutical industries or, religious organisations, multinational corporations or political parties are likely to view wikipedia as a form of advertising or campaign promotionNimbusWeb (talk) 10:12, 20 January 2010 (UTC) |
William M. Connolley: on refactoring comments and civility
[edit]William M. Connolley (talk · contribs) #4 by ChildofMidnight (talk · contribs)
User:William M. Connolley is required to refrain until 2010-07-27 from editing others' talkpage posts in pages subject to this probation even in cases where the talk page guidelines would otherwise indicate that it could or should be done; he is further warned to refrain from using septic and similar derogatory terms, and to promptly refactor any unintentional typos. ChildofMidnight is warned to be more civil in interacting with other editors, and is reminded that Wikipedia is not a battleground. Off2riorob is reminded to be especially careful to abide by the terms of the probation. - 2/0 (cont.) 21:13, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
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[126]. Even after another editor objects to his interjecting his comments within those of another editor, [PA redacted - WMC] continues to revert to his version. He also tells the other editor "How many times are you going to get this wrong?" and to "stop whinging" in user talk page discussion. I also think the attack page he keeps in his talk space needs addressing. Given his COI on climate change issues and his past involvements with RealClimate I think a topic ban would be a good solution at this point to stop the disruption he continues to cause. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:37, 24 January 2010 (UTC) [127]--Heyitspeter (talk) 21:45, 24 January 2010 (UTC) Diffs of some of the uncivil edits by WMC to this project page: NimbusWeb an "over-enthusiastic noob"..."What are you on, old fruit?"..."If you don't want to be condescended to, I suggest you stop making quite so many mistakes."..."@MN:noob". (I've moved this comment [roughly] from following section. You'll also find diffs from pages other than this one at that location.) --Heyitspeter (talk) 04:10, 26 January 2010 (UTC) His edit comments also leave a great deal to be desired [128] --mark nutley (talk) 19:58, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
If this is to be a report, it needs to be refactored into standard form, no? Else perhaps moved to the talk page? ++Lar: t/c 20:34, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
If we're talking about civility, I want TS's description of Kenosis as an "egregious edit warrior" discussed. Does no-one else find that somewhat incivil? I've raised this with TS; it just bounced off. Also, I've redacted a PA from CoM's initial statement - it may look like trivia to you but CoM is well aware of what he is doing William M. Connolley (talk) 20:58, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
Several diffs of his abusive behavior have already been provided. Among them: Diffs [133], [134] and [135]. I know he has friends and allies, but this report should not be disrupted with mirespresentations about what is a clear pattern of abusive behavior, incivility, refactoring, remocing of comments, and making false allegations. ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:18, 24 January 2010 (UTC) This problem has been goin on for a long time. I think the diffs showing abusive refactoring, referring to other editors as incompetents needing spoon feeding, misreperesnting the comments of others, the making of false allegations are enough to warrant action, but here are some more examples per repeated requests for more evidence of William's abusive behavior.
Off2riorob[edit]Since civility is a Big Thing, could someone have a quiet word with O2RR about this [142], please? William M. Connolley (talk) 23:41, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
This thread was improperly closed by Prodego who repeatedly asked me for more evidence of William Connolley's COI, incivility, and refactoring. After I spent time gathering diffs he has now collapsed the discussion hiding them. In response to Stephan Schulz's comment about off-wiki links, I'm sure he's aware that COI by definition applies to conflicts of interest that involve off-wiki interests. This discussion needs to be reopened so we can establish whether editors with clear conflicts of interest who have been involved with advocacy groups and run a blog disparaging article subjects are allowed to extend their efforts to POV pushing on Wikipedia. The incivility, refactoring, and misrepresentations also need to be addressed. ChildofMidnight (talk) 00:45, 25 January 2010 (UTC) I agree, this has been improperly closed. I see no admin consensus for either conclusion; furthermore, O2RR's incivility has become mixed into this and needs to be considered. I request that this be re-opened and properly closed William M. Connolley (talk) 10:27, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
name calling As William M. Connolley repeatedly uses the derogatory expression of septic to refer to people with opposing views to his would it be OK to refer to him as a climate whiner ? (Off2riorob)
Thats what I thought. (Off2riorob) My question and comment to Prodego was not uncivil at all, it was a question that was meant to point out how repeated long term name calling by WMC of the people with opposing views is wrong and needs to be stopped, he repeatedly calls people septic this is not a nice way to repeatedly refer to other editors at all, especially editors you are in content disputes with, I was pointing out to Prodego how poor it was that WMC repeatedly does this is and that someone doing a similar name calling to him would not be ok and WMC accusing me of incivility for this is ridiculous in the extreme. My comment was made to Prodego in his capacity as Administrator on his talkpage at a time when he was dealing with WMC's incivility issues in his administrator capacity. Off2riorob (talk) 17:13, 25 January 2010 (UTC) Around the same time as this, an editor asked WMC a question regarding the same issue...I don`t know if that`s an insult or praise :), might i ask you though WMC is it an error when you write septic`s instead of sceptic? Given one is oozing pus and the other is about questioning things? --mark nutley ....well.., clearly it isn't praise, is it. Off2riorob (talk) 17:32, 25 January 2010 (UTC) In fact, the only reason WMC is bringing this up is as a smoke screen in an attempt to distract from the real issue here, which is his long term general incivility in discussion and in edit summaries at multiple climate change articles. Off2riorob (talk) 17:39, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
ZP5[edit]Apparently there is a mutual history of name calling harassment and war exchanges, between the editor and I. Haven't kept a score with diffs. When looked at from the battleground game view, I concede ... the editor is winning. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 01:42, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
Discussion of 2over0's proposed close[edit]
I object to the proposed close, pending quite a lot of things. I've asked 2/0 to clarify William M. Connolley (talk) 08:54, 26 January 2010 (UTC) I don't think I've encountered ChildofMidnight before, but his commenting style does indeed seem to be overly personal and could stand some considerable improvement. [144] --TS 15:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
(moved from result section)
Another diff from today[edit]
Symmetry[edit]The concern that 2/0 expresses below regarding a "heckler's veto" is worth considering. Part of the remedy could be that comments that may be taken as attempts to goad or provoke WMC will also be in breach of this remedy and will be dealt with accordingly. If such a provision is not added then I can guarantee that WMC's detractors will call him "Willie" (knowing he doesn't care for such nicknames), make spurious accusations of dishonesty or misconduct, and in general do everything possible to provoke him into a violation. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 00:21, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
<outdent> "Feigned incomprehension?" So, if you'll notice I haven't refered to that man by his first name. In fact, that whole thing started with him doing something very similar to me, when I believe I called him either Will or William and he decided to exercise what I interpreted as some sort of powertrip. The fact of the matter is, believe it or not, that most people don't know his preference not to be called William, Will, Bill or anything of the sort, and despite that being a natural way of referring to someone with a username like that he gets quite upset when it occurs and inserts things like "PA redacted" into other people's comments. TheGoodLocust (talk) 17:51, 27 January 2010 (UTC) In fact, being called "Will" is far better than the various insect extermination references some of those same editors have directed towards me. TheGoodLocust (talk) 17:55, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
I don't know why I'm being singled out. Shouldn't everyone be focusing on content rather than other editors? For example dave souza has been making accusations of bad faith towards various editors. And he's not the only one. My main concern is that my good faith editing and report here were turned around by those who disagree with me on content issues in order to make all kinds of accusations against me and to try and intimidate and chase me off. That's abusive. I'd like to be held to the same high standards that everyone working on contentious articles should be. The problem is that there haven't been any enforcements to address William's rank incivility, personal attacks, and other problems highlighted here by numerous editors. And I still have not received a response regarding the attack pages in his userspace. I do not think those are appropriate and I'd like to see them addressed. If we can stop the one-sided enforcements and hold everyone to high standards going forward there is a good chance that we can make headway with a more collegial, cooperative and respectful editing environment. The focus should absolutely be on sources and content. I couldn't agree more. ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:07, 27 January 2010 (UTC) There has been talk of how no one has demonstrated any pattern of bad behavior on WMC's part. I've been doing some digging, as I remember very clearly being attacked by him on more than one occasion. I found this, which is a multi-edit diff in which I had asked him to stop removing people's talkpage comments at Garth Paltridge. I'll be adding more here as I find them. UnitAnode 18:35, 27 January 2010 (UTC) This was part of WMC edit-warring to remove comments from the Patridge talkpage. UnitAnode 18:41, 27 January 2010 (UTC) And this one, in which he removes a bunch of comments from his talkpage (which isn't prohibited in itself), while also seemingly challenging me to some kind of fight, with his, "Come on if you think you're hard enough." UnitAnode 18:45, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
Result[edit]
I am a little uncomfortable that the first result is setting up a heckler's veto, but WMC remains free to point out instances of incivility at articletalk and usertalk. Personal attacks are, of course, unacceptable and may lead to blocking or other restrictions, particularly in the probation topic area. If another uninvolved administrator agrees, can we please log the sanctions, close this thread, and move on with improving the encyclopedia? - 2/0 (cont.) 23:07, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
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